Quick Poll
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 4, 2009 2:09 PM PDT
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PrintNo editorial on this one. I'm just curious.
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I admit I was 50-50 on Winn, even as the numero uno Lewis fanboy
But I truly believe Posey can do better than .268 OBP right now, and I’m confident that if Frandsen got more than 2 AB’s in a row, he could better Edgar’s putrid “offense”.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I voted Yes on all counts… at this point, I really don’t see why it wouldn’t be. Maybe it wouldn’t be a good idea to put Posey into the majors that quickly but I think he’d definitely be a huge upgrade over Molina right now.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
No he wouldn’t but he’d be up for free agency a year earlier than if he were called up next May or after.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
well, I would like to see the Giants sign him to a Longoria type contract when ever they bring him up
I’d like to see if he actually hits in the majors, first. IIRC, Longoria got that contract a less than a week after making his debut.
But that’s exactly why it’s such a fantastic contract. Because Longoria was “unproven,” the Rays got a great deal.
Yes and Yes, but I would wait for Posey to actually start hitting in AAA and then promote split time with Molina.
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Posey
Doesn’t the possibility that Posey can’t handle the pitchers count for something? It would concern me. Just move Molina to 7. Put any live body at 4.
I think it’s probably overblown. Catchers come over to new teams/get called up all the time without intimately knowing the pitchers on their new teams and they do all right.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Experience
But catchers don’t get called up all the time before they’ve logged 175 games in the minors. In fact, that never happens.
"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino
speaking of lineups
LF Velez
2B F. Sanchez
3B Sandoval
C Molina
1B Garko
RF Winn
CF Rowand
SS Renteria
P J. Sanchez
LoLineup?
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. Congrats go out to my son for his 300th win. Only 211 more wins until he catches Cy Young!
by Speedforthewin on Aug 4, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
with his veteran grit and gaminess!
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. Congrats go out to my son for his 300th win. Only 211 more wins until he catches Cy Young!
by Speedforthewin on Aug 4, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Oviously Bochy Is Using His Top 5 People Skillz By Keeping LOLina In The Cleanup Spot. Way2go Big Giant Head!!! LOLina Won’t Be Upset Even As The Giants Lose Because He’s Hitting In Important Situations And Failing Miserably! But Everyone’s Happy!!!!! Yay! Sign BGH To A 40-year Extension!!!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Of the three, I would leave Winn in the lineup since his defense is still stellar, and he has an decent chance of going into a hot streak.
Pretty much what I was going to post. I don’t like Frandsen, though. Put Uribe at SS. I am pretty confident that even without much development, Buster is a better hitter and defender than Molina already. Whether he can effectively read batters and call a game remains to be seen.
by positiveuphemism on Aug 4, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
totally
lolina’s offense sucks, but his defense and game calling is stellar, put him in the 7 hole, make winn a 4th outfielder, and replace faileria with uribe
I see absolutely no evidence that either of those is the case.
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You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I agree. While Molina's bat has much to be desired, he brings a lot defensively. He also calls games well.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
a guy who can't throw can't play right field.
f**k, man, there's a beverage here!
by seesdifferent on Aug 4, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Winn’s arm is not a plus but it’s adequate.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
he’s been doing it pretty well for the last couple of years.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
we should quit while we’re ahead.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
was his arm this bad?
I don’t believe he was this bad; he cannot throw the ball to home from medium RF on one hop. barely gets it to the infield. Watch as he tries to compensate by throwing it high. All that does is miss cutoffs. I mean, its embarassing.
f**k, man, there's a beverage here!
by seesdifferent on Aug 4, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
His arm usually hovers about average. His range is almost always stellar.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
His arm has always seemed fairly accurate, but his arm strength seems terrible. He just never looks like he gets anything behind his throws, like he’s trying too hard to aim and doesn’t put any zip on it. This is just all from me watching him, not looking at any defensive stats.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 4, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t necessarily disagree. I think in the end though, range is far far more important than arm.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I agree wholeheartedly. Wasn’t trying to advocate moving Winn. His defense, aside from having a noodle arm, has been terrific.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 4, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Winn used to be my fav Giant
no more. I’d much rather see Nate and Torres play most of the time.
f**k, man, there's a beverage here!
by seesdifferent on Aug 4, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted for not shaking up the lineup that drastically because I don’t want to throw Posey into the fire. Like the others, I was iffiest on Winn as well. Since Renteria needs surgery after the season anyway, it would be nice if he had it now and let Uribe take over full time duties at SS.
+1
do not rush Posey- in fact I wish he were in CT and not Fresno, where slop-hackers are incubated in the stifling heat.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Aug 6, 2009 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Thinking Posey Is Ready Now Is Laughable.
Thinking Frandsen might be better then Renteria is almost as laughable. I could see gain replacing Renteria with Uribe but their is nothing to be gained by replacing Winn’s big defensive advantage with whatever small offensive advantage Lewis or Bowker might add.
It really wouldn’t be that hard to be better than Renteria.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
this is just to say
Rent is now at 0.0 WAR for the season.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Low expectations FTW
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Aug 4, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
WAR really is good for absolutely nothing
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 4, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Say it again.
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by Johnny Disaster on Aug 4, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
What is it good for?
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
nothing.
f**k, man, there's a beverage here!
by seesdifferent on Aug 4, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
You don’t think Frandsen could pull off 67OPS+? Renteria is hitting 256/311/321. I’d say Frandsen could do that.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Aug 4, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
No, I Don't.
Frandsen is a career .649 OPS hitter in 441 PAs with a career -12.7 UZR/150 at SS. Yes, Renteria offense thus far this year has has been slighty worse (.632 OPS) but his defense has been better (-2.3 UZR) and his track record and even ZIPS says he can be expected to do better in the remainder of this season.
by giantsrainman on Aug 4, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
lol using Frandsen’s career major league statistics
lol 198 career innings at SS
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
We really shouldn’t have expected anything else. He admits Renteria sucks this year but he’ll just point at his “track record.”
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Aug 4, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
It Is All The Data We Have To Go On.
I also trust the Giants here and it is pretty clear to me that they do not see Kevin as even an average defensive SS.
by giantsrainman on Aug 4, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
He cites numbers
He doesn’t actually understand them, but he cites them anyway.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
The bone spur in Renteria’s elbow is just going to magically disappear?
"I can't hit the ball until I hit the bottle!"
by Li on Aug 4, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I unfortunately don't see the Giants benching a $9mil player.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
this whole line of thought
is stupid stupid stupid stupid. You’re going to pay him $9M no matter what, so why all the hesitation about benching him? They could at least put him on the DL and not lose that much face.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
hooray!
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Also, it’s not my money so I don’t care anymore about “so and so makes such and such”. Let’s throw money at people, since it’s not like any salary savings will be passed on to us.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Aug 6, 2009 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree that it would be a stretch for posey to be ready for the majors now. However, i disagree with you on Frandsen. He could be better than rent, but Frandsen’s value at this point is probably as a super utility type.
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. Congrats go out to my son for his 300th win. Only 211 more wins until he catches Cy Young!
by Speedforthewin on Aug 4, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Thinking Posey Is Ready Now Is Laughable.
Agreed. And Lewis and Bowker? — Haven’t you already seen enough? I’d replace Edgar with Uribe or platoon them. Neither is the answer at SS. Unless you get a power bat, Winn has plenty of value. This team has lots of work to do — especially Sabean in the off season.
Don't believe everything you think.
Lewis has the 2nd highest OBP on this team
And has made a larger offensive contribution to this team than Winn.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
why does he seem stoned in left field?
just askin
f**k, man, there's a beverage here!
by seesdifferent on Aug 4, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
this
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. Congrats go out to my son for his 300th win. Only 211 more wins until he catches Cy Young!
by Speedforthewin on Aug 4, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually agree with you on every point
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 4, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m almost at the point where ruining Posey forever is preferable to watching one more game of Molina.
absolutely not
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 4, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
he also said that Torres and Aurilia are likely to return when roster expand on Sept 1st
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. Congrats go out to my son for his 300th win. Only 211 more wins until he catches Cy Young!
by Speedforthewin on Aug 4, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Supposed to be back in a week from today. It can’t come soon enough!
by kdl on Aug 4, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Aug. 11 I think.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
I said no, maybe one of those would work
i.e. Frandsen or Uribe for Renteria…. but I don’t think that there would be that much of an upgrade going Winn to Lewis or Bowker, and I don’t even consider promoting Posey right now a possibility.
Kevin Pucetas lurks in the shadows, waiting for his time to shine.
well, combo that with:
“No. Maybe one of those moves would work, but it doesn’t make sense to shake up the lineup that drastically”
Everybody loves money
Posey isn’t ready, though I’d be hard pressed to say he wouldn’t be an improvement over Molina.
But that move isn’t necessary. Moving Molina out of the cleanup spot would be an improvement all by itself.
Winn clearly needs some time off.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 2:26 PM PDT reply actions
I don’t know. That’s my vote.
I want to think that yes, it would provide better options. At least it wouldn’t be the same jerks screwing up day in and day out. But when the new jerks start screwing up, then what? We have Lewis’ tendency to K a lot plus questionable D (sorry Fred, I really still love you), Bowker not living up to Bowkermania, Frandsen’s epic nosedive of 09, Posey possibly not being ready, and Uribe’s usefulness extending only as a super UTIL guy. There’s a lot of variables in there to introduce a new level of suck.
Of all of these, I think Posey is the least likely to happen. But in a massive overhaul, and Murphy’s Law hanging over all of us, when/if the screwing up starts, we’ll just be back here bitching about it all over again.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 4, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions
Super hypothetical quesiton
Preface : I do not wish injury upon our own player. ever.
If Bengie Molina is to miss the rest of the season with an injury of some sort, what would the Giants do?
1. Bring Up Holm for the stretch run.
2. Sandoval to catcher, uribe at 3rd, Frandsen up
3. It’s Buster Posey Time.
1 or 2
I don’t think they’re going to bring up Posey this season.
by kdl on Aug 4, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Good call. That’s exactly what they’d do.
I’m not sure we’ll ever see Franny again.
by kdl on Aug 4, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
2 is what I would do.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 4, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
they’d have to go with Sandoval. It just makes too much sense. Heck, they should do that now anyway.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I know this has already been brought up, but can Posey even call a game at this point? I pretty much have no idea what I’m talking about, but isn’t Molina at least decent at calling games?
I’m not sure about Posey and it’s hard to really quantify but I don’t think Molina seems like a superlative game-caller and it definitely seems like his pitch-calling can be extremely questionable.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Lol, I was just about to say the same thing. Lincecum and Cain are probably begging for Whiteside starts.
by kdl on Aug 4, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Hasn’t caught a no hitter
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Aug 4, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Bochy vs Molina?
As mush as I despise Bruce Bochy, I would still rather see him play and bat cleanup at his advanced age than suffer through 4 putrid at bats from Molina every night….Bochy truly deserves MOY for the way he has handled his pitching staff but deserves to be shot for stubbornly batting Bengie Cleanup…What will convince Bochy to move him down?
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by Mordy From Monsey on Aug 4, 2009 2:34 PM PDT reply actions
You know Bochy was actually a worse hitter, for his career, than Molina has been this year, right? It seems impossible but it’s true.
Catchers generally suck at hitting. We just got lucky and had a good-hitting one for a while. It’s looking more and more like that while is over, though.
Hopefully Posey can be the new good-hitting catcher.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 4, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think straight out replacing them is the answer but I would love to see the Giants bring up Posey and have him split the reps 50/50 with Molina. I would also like to see Uribe and Renteria to split the reps 50/50, and Randy Winn should be platooned.
It’s obvious our older players are worn down and beat up! It would be cool to see what a little rest would do for Molina and Edgar. Also I think when you have alot of MEH players that we should be taking a very agressive approach to platooning so that we get the best out of them.
if Posey is brought up
he needs to play close to every day.
It’s obvious our older players are worn down and beat up! It would be cool to see what a little rest would do for Molina and Edgar. Also I think when you have alot of MEH players that we should be taking a very agressive approach to platooning so that we get the best out of them.
Which is another way of saying the starting oldsters are not very good… the idea is to have good starters and decent backups, so that a starter can rest while the VORPish backup plays with the good starters, not giving up too much on a particular day.
As opposed to actually running out mediocrities each day, rotating in different mediocrities from the bench, making the lineup mediocre constantly.
Note: at least 1B and 2B are not part of that equation any more.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Aug 6, 2009 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Bengie
He’s playing too much with too much pressure in the #4 hole where -of course-he does not belong. I think he’d be more productive in the 6 or 7 hole. Let Sabean bat fourth.
Don't believe everything you think.
Posey
I was thinking that catching has a somewhat comparable learning curve to NFL QB, in that a large part of the skill is knowing other players’ tendencies, which simply can’t be done without experience. But every player is different, some guys have enough talent to succeed while they learn on the job, while other guys may be Alex Smith.
By most reports, Posey is a special player that could contribute in many ways to the Giants right now. All reports say he’ll need another year or two before he can handle a big league staff competently. Considering how worthless Molina is today, and knowing nothing about Posey besides what I hear and read, I could probably justify bringing him up.
I see no danger in ruining him, obviously the biggest problem is how he’d handle the myriad responsibilities behind the plate, but adding 100 or 150 OPS to the catching spot could be worth any downside.
I voted for the last option
I’m against it, but my biggest reasoning is that I don’t want to screw up Posey’s development. He’s hitting .242/.333/.339 in AAA (sss I know) Let him finish the year there and maybe even spend a couple months there next year. Plus, who knows if he can call a game well?
Winn for Bowker/lewis? meh. Winn’s defense is nice, especially at home. Plus, he always runs hot/cold. I wouldn’t be too upset if it happened though.
Uribe for Renteria? Sure, neither is going to be very good though.
by UnstoppableTurtle on Aug 4, 2009 2:46 PM PDT reply actions
His AAA numbers are much better after the 2-4 with a double and HR today.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
CALL HIM UP WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Can he play first?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
he can shoot first
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
well played
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
He’s outrun Imperial Starships. Not the local bulk catchers, mind you. I’m talking about the big Corellian ships now
I hear he can do the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
The real question is...
what kind of group would he have for a Corellian Corvette run?
I AM TURBONERD.
Actually, I just loved playing a pilot in Star Wars Galaxies.
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by Gabafnerhagen on Aug 4, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
FAIL
parsec is a unit of interstellar distance measurement, not time.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Aug 6, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Yea this. The only person I’d want to replace Winn in RF is Nate. Keep Velez in LF until he comes back to earth at which point we go back to Fred/Winn platoon and pray.
yeah.
when nate gets back my ideal outfield would be
Velez (until he cools off) – Rowand – Nate
with Winn the primary backup at all 3 positions, playing a fair amount (mostly against righties)
Throw lewis in the mix at left, especially when velez cools off.
by UnstoppableTurtle on Aug 4, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s not as overmatched as his numbers make him look. He works the count, takes walks, just unlucky with balls in play. I’d be worried if he stopped walking and started striking out a lot but so far he’s maintained the same BB/K from SJ, and that’s usually a better indicator of readiness than if he had a high batting average with a .500 BABIP
Taking defense into account as well as offense, I don’t have enough confidence in the OF options to replace Winn. Start him versus right-handers, and bench him against lefties.
Frandsen I don’t think would be any worse than Renteria, but could be better. Uribe I think is mostly lateral. Well, I guess I could choose a different term, because neither Renteria nor Uribe have anything resembling “lateral” in their game.
Molina wouldn’t be an issue if he weren’t being relied upon as a major bat. I think he handles the pitching staff pretty well, but I would bet that Buster could out-hit him at this point.
I voted for the second option, though, because of my level of frustration.
With Molina’s falling off a cliff this season, I’ve been wondering for a while…
It seemed a foregone conclusion that he wanted his last multi-year contract after this offseason, which would force him out of SF because they don’t want to block Posey. It seemed that the Giants would go out and look for a veteran to either back up Posey next season in case he falters, or to start the season and hand over starting duties once Posey arrives (a la Zaun/Weiters).
With his recent struggles, do you think that this will be something that Molina and the Giants management can agree upon being his role for next season? I know Molina has been really touchy/sensitive about younger catchers in the system in the past, but do you think he could put aside his ego and enter a new phase in his career? I know that he’s been a bit of a mentor to Sandoval, but he seemed really threatened by him at first, and stopped being douchey about Pablo’s time at catcher once he became the 3B starter.
I dunno, maybe, but he seems to turn into such a douche whenever anyone suggests that he’s not as good anymore.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
yeah. he wouldn’t go for that type of role. He wants to play everyday, which is his prerogative. But Posey won’t be ready by opening day, in all likelihood and the Giants should do the Zaun/Wieters thing. There are a few FA catchers available that might look good in that role and obviously wouldn’t be asked to hit cleanup.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I think I would rather just go with Posey opening day. I think he will be ready and the only reason to delay would be for service time reasons.
If they call him up early-ish, they really ought to try for a Longoria-esque contract to go with it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Exactly
Go with Zaun / random vet till May. I actually like Zaun as a left-handed C to have on the bench as well, giving Posey the day off against a particularly painful RHP.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
also
fill in the lineup at other positions so the catcher can bat lower in the order.
Like, not cleanup.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Aug 6, 2009 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions
on offense, but I’m not sure about his defense. He really hasn’t logged that many innings behind the plate in the minors to know for sure that he’ll be ready. But I totally see your point. the team is being aggressive in promoting him so maybe that’s the plan.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
his defense can't be worse than Molina
If he can frame pitches, block balls in the dirt and throw out base runners, then he should be fine(and from what I’ve read, he’s doing fine defensively).
Personally, I’d go for the Zaun/Weiters scenario because I don’t trust:
1. Molina’s ego
2. Bochy’s lineup-making skills
But if I didn’t have to worry about those things, I think Molina would be very useful in that role.
Zaun is actually a pretty solid player. Ramon Hernandez wouldn’t be a terrible option either.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Molina doesn’t strike me as the kinda guy who would be happy in the placeholder role. He’s threw a hissy when Sabean said he was winding down, which he was right about, incidentally.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I suspect that no one will want to sign him in the off-season, and his agent will find that out pretty quick. Honestly, he’ll be lucky to get a backup spot somewhere.
I bet he ends up a Met
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
Phillies fans on another forum were talking about “many molia would look good in our lineup”
I laughed.
I actually wouldn't be shocked
He’d be a no 8 hitter in that bandbox? I’m not a fan but still. I do think he has the makings of a Met though. ;)
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I would be happy to oblige them….
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I have absolutely no faith in Bruce Bochy to enforce that scenario
He will give the “veteran” time to adjust, and Posey will sit.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I think we offer him arbitration.
… and then depending on what he does is how we should proceed. If he excepts we let him know he just signed on to be Posey’s mentor. If he declines we get draft picks – win/win
Yes, except instead of Bowker use Schierholtz in that 3rd outfield spot with Rowand and Velez until Velez cools off.
"Nice catch, Hayes. Don't ever fuckin' do it again."
I just don't want to see Molina anymore
I’m tired of his obstinacy. the guy just refuses to make adjustments or alter his thinking or approach in any way.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions
maybe there’s something about the Giants coaching that makes guys act like this.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I have not seen the Sunflower Guy...
…since I stopped and took his picture that one day. I believe I killed him by recording his existence.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 4, 2009 3:08 PM PDT reply actions
The sunflower man’s greatest trick was convincing Lars he didn’t exist…
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 4, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Posey needs at least half a season in AAA.
The guy has only hit A pitching. He needs at least a half a season in AAA to season him for MLB pitching. He’ll be one hell of a hitter once he is ready, but he is simply not ready yet. Look at what happen to Alex Gordon when they rushed him.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
He became commisioner of Gotham City.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 4, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn you're right. Ok, ignore that example!
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
Look at what happened to Gordon Beckham when they rushed him.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Posey is battign 258 in AAA at the moment. Clearly he's ready for the bigs.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
In a small sample size that includes a good walk rate, a good K-rate and a low BABIP.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Posey is certainly the “mofo” of the future. I just don’t see the point of forcing him into a situation where he will be expected to immediately produce.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
Oh, I do agree, I think. But I also think that if they called him up right now, he’d do better than Molina. Longterm, though, it makes more sense to keep in him in AAA for the rest of this year and at least a few months of next year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I don’t think it would be so drastic if Bochy managed the situation better. People are really disgusted by seeing Winn continually bat third vs LH and Molina always in the cleanup spot. Bochy needs to show a lot more flexibility regarding not treating the vets like superstars.
Bochy is almost forcing people to vote #1 or #2.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Aug 4, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Winn has been batting near the bottom of the order vs lefties recently.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 4, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
By recently You mean since Freddie took his 2 hole spot 3 games ago?
Winn ab by spot in lineup:
6th 13
7th 4
8th 3
9th 1
= 21 out of 388 ab he batted lower than 5th.
Bochy fans are starting to get irrational.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Aug 4, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess I was harsh, but the fact remains Winn would still be batting 3rd if Pablo had been even slightly less awesome this year. Maybe it’s not even Bochy’s fault he has nothing to work with. Honestly I’d rather see Winn bat third and Pablo cleanup than have to watch Molina a cleanup every day.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Aug 4, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Pablo should have been batting cleanup for a long time now, IMO. I don’t really care who bats third, I’d say whoever the hot hand is. Velez, Sanchez, Rowand, Winn. I think that matters way less than the first priority of dropping Bengie out of the cleanup spot.
My point was, though, that they have finally stopped keeping Winn high in the order vs lefties. Yeah, it may have only been a few days ago that this began, but now is better than never.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 4, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
In reality
Fred Lewis should be batting in front of Pablo, Always.
by FairweatherFan on Aug 4, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
ignorance: always the explanation.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Leave Winn in. Just don’t play him vs LHP.
Rent I think should be put on the DL, If by the end of the season we are going to make the playoffs bring him back, since he has a lot of experience and a month’s of rest could do him a LOT of good.
I hate Frandsen though, think he’s pretty much worthless as a starter. Let Uribe start at SS, he probably is tolerable for a month’s worth of games.
Posey while they won’t do it, I’m 100% sure he’d be more productive than Molina in the OBP department.
Molina’s sac fly’s might be missed though lol.
I would even put up with Whiteside over Molina at this point. He calls a very good game and I doubt he could be any worse than Molina has been.
I wish we could fuse Holm’s bat and Whiteside’s D into one player. Holmside?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
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Winn’s struggles against lefties this year look to me like pure, unadulterated fluke. Last year, he was better against lefties than against righties. Careerwise, he’s even. He looks the same to my untrained eye. Sometimes the hits just don’t fall.
I agree. K-rate against lefties is only ~13%, which isn’t bad (only slightly worse than his career vs LHP) and he’s got a .188 BABIP against them.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I dunno, bb-ref doesn’t go into that much depth w/ splits.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
But his walk rate as a RHH is execrable and much worse than his career rate. 3 walks in 91 PAs. The good news is two of those walks came in the last couple of days.
His O-swing% overall is way up compared to his career, but I don’t think fangraphs has splits for that to see if the chasing is mostly occurring as a righty, as a I suspect.
His power seems completely gone, that’s the only major change.
Less walks, more strikeouts but not enough to definitively indicate that he’s finished.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
I brought this up somewhere else, but whatever it is, it is not a fluke, if by that you mean bad luck. If he were “really” the .330 OBP RHH he has been in his career prior to this season, the probability of him reaching base just 17 times in 91 attempts is 0.06%
Something is wrong with him, whether it’s mental, mechanical, or some weird injury that only affects his right-handed swing.
On the other hand, he’s walked twice as a righty in the past three days, which is one more than he’d achieved the whole rest of the season (and also had a couple of hits), so maybe he’s pulling out of it.
I think Renteria to the DL is the best idea yet. Let him get healthy and maybe he’ll get hot for a month.
I didn’t think it was worth a fanshot, but Jorge Arangure, ESPN’s Latin America expert, tweeted that Cuban OF Yasser Gomez has been declared a free agent and three NL contenders are looking to add them for their playoff run.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Oh and RHP Yadel Marti too.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
I dun get it
But anyways, Marti could be a nice solution should Martinez not work out.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
That’s just what came up when I did a GIS for “yadel”. Apparently it’s Wisin & Yandel, a reggaeton duo.
You know what happens when you do too many GISs?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
A few dudes on the Giants list them as their favorite music. Bengie and Jonathan said so on the 2009 Giants calendar, IIRC.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 4, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
oh Randy
Randi?
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 6, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
he’s due
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he pitches well tonight but loses anyway
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Giants get shut out
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Aren’t we facing the same guy from the 13 run game?
Definite shutout
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
yeah, Paulino
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
it doesn’t matter.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I normally assume a loss for the 4th and 5th starter these days, but I think the Giants have at least a chance against Paulino. If they can’t win against him, they might as well just forfeit the remainder of their road games.
by kdl on Aug 4, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Paulino is actually worse than Hampton. (Paulino is pitching today.) So, yeah, jponry is right – shutout.
by kdl on Aug 4, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
(cool, so we’re all straight then?)
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
(are you guys, like, whispering?)
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 4, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
(don’t look at me, i was out with charlie, i think it was the other roomate)
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
(Isn’t the the guy who we had the 13 runs against?)
by kdl on Aug 4, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
All this Molina Talk.. bleh...
Man Buster Posey better fucking be ready next year. I can see a poster with :
Sandoval
Posey
Lincecum
Cain
“the future is now” — 2010 SF Giants slogan.
I think Frandsen would absolutely be an improvement over Renteria.
I don’t think Buster is ready for the majors.
I think both Rowand and Winn should take more time off in the outfield.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
JT: ummm.,… uhh.. umm
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
/kuip pushes mic into nose
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
Definitely yes on Uribe in for Renteria.
I don’t know about Posey for Molina, but Molina needs to get out of the clean up spot immediately, he should be batting 7th or so.
No on OF for Randy Winn, it’s great having Randy especially at home when he can move from RF to CF if needed. We just need to avoid having Winn hitting against LHPs and give Rowand or Winn more days off to put in Schierholtz, Lewis, Velez or Bowker.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
I voted for all the options.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
someone else said it, but...
… what about letting Pablo play behind the plate esp against RHP. Bengie’s OPS is .834 as a rightie and .628 as a leftie. Uribe (or Frandsen) could play third and Benjie would not be totally useless as a PH. This is clearly not a long-term solution but would suffice until Buster is ready.
Voted 'doesn't make sense'
but am now nervous, because the majority agrees with me.
Posey couldn’t possibly do worse than Molina, even though there is a history of omega catching prospects turning into doorstops.
I’m not convinced that Winn is done and would like a place for Nate when he comes back (that means Winn over Lewis).
I admit to being curious about Kevin Frandsen. In my opinion, Uribe is but a single notch above Rent on the hate scale. That said, he would be an improvement, fat and crappy though he is. At the very least, the man can throw. Rent does surprise you on occasion, but being shocked that he can get something across the diamond on the fly is no reason to continue playing him.
Agree with you on the catcher thing
AJ Hinch and Jeff Clement ring massive bells. Hopefully that won’t happen to Posey.
Supporting the Giants, Niners, Sharks, Warriors, Golden Bears and Zags since 1987
I think replacing Renteria with Uribe, at least, would definitely be a positive. But I’m not sold on the other moves for the following reasons:
1) Buster probably would be better than Bengie right now. Probably. However there’s also the chance that calling him up too early could result in some confidence-killing frustrations at the big league level. When it comes to our top prespects, I’d rather take a cautious approach (and come on— he’s batting .235 in Triple A… lets just wait for him to get some confidence at that level before we call him up to the show).
2) I think Lewis should be getting more playing time. But I’m not sure I feel comfortable replacing Winn’s glove in the OF with his. If I had my way, Randy would be rotating between the three outfield spots, spelling Rowand, Nate, and Freddy on different nights. I wouldn’t completely remove him from the lineup (and unlike a lot of our crusty vets, I think Randy probably does have some gas left in the tank… I’m still waiting for that hot streak to push his batting average more back in line with what we were expecting)
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Aug 4, 2009 5:28 PM PDT reply actions
I voted silly.
Please give me attention and affection now.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
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