minor lines, 8/25/09
by steve S on Aug 26, 2009 7:56 AM PDT
in They Might Be Giants
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PrintHighlights from the Giants' farm: (a,b) Buster Posey and Conor Gillaspie each homered while having a couple hits; (c) Matt Downs had four hits; (d,e) Ben Copeland and Josh Mazzoa each had three hits; (f) Ari Ronick had 0 ER in 6.0 IP; and (g) in short-season ball Chris Gloor had a career high 7 K in 5.0 scoreless IP.
AAA: Fresno lost to Tacoma 11-9 (12 innings) Fresno: 2B Matt Downs: 4 for 7, 2B, SO Fresno: RHP Ramon Ortiz: 5.2 IP, 9 H, 6 R, 5 ER, 4 BB, 4 K--1 HR Downs had four hits, including his 30th double, to raise his AVG to .296. Copeland added three more of the Grizzlies' fifteen hits, getting is AVG above .270. Posey also reached base three times before being removed for a pinch runner in the 9th inning. He had his 5th HR but also committed his 3rd error and allowed his 4th passed ball. Frandsen had his 13th HR. The Mariners' Owens and Carp combined for ten of the Rainiers' eighteen hits. Ortiz had his second straight start with 5 ER after being so effective in his previous ten starts. His ERA rose above 3.00. Edlefsen made his first appearance since it was announced that he'll pitch in the Arizona Fall League. Hinshaw struck out three of four batters in the 9th inning but allowed game-tying, two-out HR to the other batter. Matos took the loss as a couple earned runs in the 12th inning raised his ERA above 3.50. AA: Connecticut defeated New Britain 5-4 Connecticut: 1B Brett Pill: 2 for 4, E Connecticut: RHP Daryl Maday: 5.0 IP, 10 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 0 BB, 0 K--1 HB Pill and Crawford each had two of the Defenders' seven hits, raising their respective AVGs to .293 and .254. Crawford's line included his 25th double. After six games in the AZL, Phelps played his first game this year with a full-season affiliate. Maday had less than a quality start, but got the win to improve his W-L record 6-4 in 23 starts, which seems like a surprisingly large number of no decisions. With 10 H in 5.0 IP, his H/IP ratio for the season rose above 1.00 (BAA of .274). With no strikeouts, his K/IP slipped back below 0.50. Paterson's 3.0 hitless, scoreless IP improved his ERA to 2.15. Guerra, the 20-year-old whom the Twins acquired from the Mets in the Johan Santana trade, had been very effective in his last two starts but allowed a four-spot to the Defenders in the 1st inning. Gutierrez, the Twins' first rounder a year ago, pitched two perfect innings, but his ERA remains above 6.50. A+: San Jose lost to Visalia 12-3 San Jose: 3B Conor Gillaspie: 2 for 4, HR, 2B, SO San Jose: RHP Oliver Odle: 4.0+ IP, 10 H, 8 R, 7 ER, 0 BB, 3 K--3 HR With two hits each, Gillaspie and Kline were the only two Giants to reach base twice. Gillaspie had his 3rd HR and 28th double but also his 27th error. The Diamomdbacks' Upton homered in his second rehab game. Odle allowed three runs in the 4th inning and then five runs in the 5th inning when he did not retire a hitter. Musgrave had another highly ineffective appearance. In his last four appearances, he has 13 ER in 1.0 IP, ballooning his ERA above 16.00. Miley, whom BA ranked as the Diamondbacks' #5 prospect, pitched well in his Cal League debut. The 22-year-old had a 4.12 ERA in 21 Midwest League starts earlier this year. A-: Augusta defeated Savannah 4-3 (10 innings) Augusta: CF Francisco Peguero: 2 for 4, HBP, 2 SB Augusta: LHP Ari Ronick: 6.0 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 8 K--1 HB, 1 WP Mazzola had three hits, raising his AVG back to .276. D'Alessio reached base four times. Peguero had another multi-hit game, as well as his 10th and 11th steals. With no earned runs, although three unearned runs, in 6.0 IP, Ronick further improved his ERA to 2.63. Wilson had 5 K in what may have been his longest appearance of the season. ssA: Salem-Keizer defeated Vancouver 13-1 Salem-Keizer: LF Dan Cook: 3 for 4, 3B, SO Salem-Keizer: LHP Chris Gloor: 5.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 7 K Cook's three hits, including his 4th triple, raised his AVG to .299. Weeks reached base four times. Both he and Cavan had their 3rd HRs. The Athletics' Stassi had a couple hits, including his first XBH, in his second pro game. Gloor bounced back from his worst start of the season with perhaps his best start. At least it included a career-high 7 K. His ERA is back under 2.50. Bowlin and Quinowski each had 2 K in a perfect inning of work. Stoffel finished the game with a perfect 9th inning. R: Giants lost to Brewers 8-3 Scottsdale: CF Andres Torres: 1 for 2, 2B, 2 BB, SO, SB Scottsdale: RHP Bryan Salsbury: 3.0 IP, 5 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 1 K--1 HR Torres reached base three times in his third rehab game. Salsbury saw his ERA rise above 3.00 with 4 ER in 3.0 IP. With no earned runs in 3.0 IP of relief, Heston got his ERA down to 4.05. DSL: The Gigantes have a bye in the first round of the playoffs
Fresno: 3B Kevin Frandsen: 3B Kevin Frandsen: 1 for 5, HR, BB, IBB, GiDP
Fresno: C Buster Posey: 2 for 4, HR, BB, PB, E
Fresno: RF Ben Copeland: 3 for 6, 2B, SO
Tacoma: CF Jerry Owens: 6 for 7, 2 3B, SO, SB
Tacoma: 1B Mike Carp: 4 for 5, HBP
Fresno: RHP Steven Edlefsen: 1.1 IP, 1 H, 1 K
Fresno: LHP Alex Hinshaw: 1.0 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 3 K--1 HR
Fresno: RHP Osiris Matos: 1.0 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 K
(after scoring four runs in 1st inning)
Connecticut: RF Josh Phelps: 0 for 4, 2 SO
Connecticut: SS Brandon Crawford: 2 for 3, 2B
Connecticut: LHP Joe Paterson: 3.0 IP, 1 BB, 3 K--1 WP
New Britain: RHP Deolis Guerra: 6.0 IP, 7 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 1 BB, 1 K--1 HB, 2 WP
New Britian: RHP Carlos Gutierrez: 2.0 IP, 2 K
San Jose: C Trent Kline: 2 for 4, 2B
Visalia: DH Justin Upton: 2 for 5, HR, SO
San Jose: RHP Mike Musgrave: 0.1 IP, 1 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 1 BB, 1 K--2 HB
Visalia: LHP Wade Miley: 6.0 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 0 BB, 5 K
Augusta: 1B Josh Mazzola: 3 for 5, 2B, SO
Augusta: DH Andy D'Alessio: 2 for 3, 2B, 2 BB, SO
Augusta: RHP Chris Wilson: 3.0 IP, 1 H, 1 BB, 5 K
Salem-Keizer: 3B Joel Weeks: 2 for 3, HR, 2 BB, SO
Salem-Keizer: SS Ryan Cavan: 1 for 4, HR, SF
Vancouver: C Max Stassi: 2 for 3, 2B
Salem-Keizer: RHP Andrew Bowlin: 1.0 IP, 2 K
Salem-Keizer: LHP David Quinowski: 1.0 IP, 2 K
Salem-Keizer: RHP Jason Stoffel: 1.0 IP
Scottsdale: RHP Chris Heston: 3.0 IP, 1 R, 2 K--1 HB, 1 WP, 1 BK
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I was watching MLB tv and they said Buster Posey was the number one September callup on the list. If Sabean doesn’t call him up, he’s an idiot.
embarrassed father of over the hill Edgardo Renteria
That would require taking someone off the 40-man, though, right? Could this spell the end of the Brian Bocock era?
I can think of two people I’d take off (coughjustinmillerandmerkinvaldezcough)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Or the Rich Aurilia era?
Or the Justin Miller era?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Aug 26, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Or the Rich Aurilia era?
Sadly, that will be next year.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
I’ve learned to accept that if a move makes sense, it either won’t happen at all or will happen way too late
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 26, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
it’s a move that could cost the Giants one more year of team control or one more arbitration years. Think of it as if the Giants traded for a Buster Posey type of player off the bench for one month @ 6 Million dollars.
Not so nice anymore, if you ask me.
What they could do, of course, is to call Posey up, and keep him in the minors for an additional month next year. Instead oc a May call up, make him a July call up so he still doesn’t have enough PA to reach super 2 status.
yes but by controlling his super 2 and arbitration status carfully, all the leverage are on the giants side where as if they call him up, all the leverage will be on Boras side.
I’m not entirely sure you’re correct that it would affect their control over him. My understanding is that September appearances by players on the 40 man roster but not the 25 man roster have no affect on service time (they essentially aren’t major league service); they don’t count toward rookie status, arb eligibility, fa eligibility of major league pensions.
I think the only affect would be that adding him to the 40 man would get his option clock started and burn an option next March if he doesn’t make the squad out of ST. But this shouldn’t have any long term repurcussions as I think we all believe/hope he won’t be down in the minors for the next 4 seasons.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
humm you may be right. The option year on the 40 man roster might be the only thing that’s in play here. They’d still need to clear up 2 spots in September though because :
- we’ve heard the name Runzler mentioned by Baggs randy johnson, if he is gonna pitch again
-
One of those spot is Bocock, who is going to be the other spot? They will never DFA Rich Aurilia. I clearly do not see a 3rd spot available for Buster Posey on the 40 man roster this year.
Yes, that is a concern — plus I think Sabean’s been pretty upfront over the years about the fact that the organization takes the financial implications of September call ups seriously. I think they all get major league minimum salaries for the month and while that’s still not a lot it does have to come out of the major league payroll account which is probably pretty baren by September.
Anyway, if they really wanted to I’d think Jesse English and Ryan Sadowski’s spots could be eliminated without much regret.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Also Sadowski could be an option. IIRC that was the rationale behind calling him up in the first place, right, that they’d be able to drop him from the 40-man and not risk losing him? Not sure if that would work or not.
Justin Miller
Merkin Valdez
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I feel the rage, and believe me if I’d been in Sabean’s shoes yesterday Miller would have been gone. But it would be a bad baseball decision, I think. He’s still a useful player. That said, I can’t wait for the next time I’m at AT&T and he comes into a game. That may be the loudest I will ever boo anyone. (God I hope it’s not a high-leverage situation.) Oh, and BTW I certainly don’t want him back next season. (He will be a FA, right?)
Merkin’s a different case. He’s almost 28 and shows no sign of ever being a useful major leaguer. I wouldn’t disagree if they decided to cut the cord on him.
remember when people thought that Merkin for Nick Johnson was too much?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I never thought that
/awaits proof that I did in fact think that
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
As best I can tell September appearances still count towards arb eligibilty. This FAQ does not mention anything about September 1, and I can find several other non-official web sources that say September call-ups do in fact start the arb clock.
So I don’t think the Giants should call Posey up unless (a) they get back in the race (within two games) in the next week or (b) they expect Posey to be in the majors on opening day next year, in which case the Super 2 issue is moot.
Well the issue in that FAQ is what exactly constitutes “major league service time.” My understanding is that that is defined by being on the major league roster. September call ups aren’t on the major league roster, they are simply eligible to play in major league games. That’s a rather bizarre and vague differentiation, but I believe it is how MLB calculates things. Arb eligibility begins with players who have been on major league (i.e., 25 man) rosters for 3 years, or in the case of Super Twos, etc etc.
I may well be wrong on that, but I think maybe I’m not.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Ok, I found it
Paul DePodesta, who I should think would be in a position to know, says
Major League service time does NOT include all time spent on the Major League 40-man roster. It only includes time spent on the Major League 25-man roster, both active and disabled. So, a player who is on the 40-man roster in spring training, gets optioned to AAA in March, and then gets recalled to the big leagues for the month of September will accumulate 30 Major League service days (September only). On the other hand, a player who is placed on the Major League disabled list in spring training and misses the entire season will actually be given a full year of service time.
So September does count (even though he somewhat confusingly refers to the 25-man roster). Therefore I believe they should not (and will not) call him up next month.
Geez, no wonder it’s so hard to get the issue straight, even former GMs can’t explain it straightforward. I’m guessing you’re right because he says September counts 30 days, but Taliesin is quite right that in that one paragraph he completely contradicts himself. My assumption was the first thing DePodesta wrote, that if you’re not on the 25 man roster, you’re not accumulating service time. But then he essentially dismisses that definition in the second part by saying 40 man players who get called up are accumulating time, despite the fact that they’re quite clearly not on the 25 man.
I think I’ll throw my hands up in confused despair and just agree already. No Buster for September.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
on Sept 1, the active rosters can be expanded up to 40 players. being on the active roster means major league service time towards arbitration and free agency. Thus, September time counts as service time, even if you’re the 40th guy.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I think by “25-man roster” he means “active roster,” as opposed to “40-man roster,” whether or not the active roster has expanded for September.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 27, 2009 7:16 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Heh, yeah actually in the comments to the linked post, one of his readers asks him once and for all does September count. And he clarifies that it does.
it really would be silly if it didn’t.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
these are from different sections of the CBA. Based on my reading of the CBA, being a September call-up constitutes service time towards arbitration.
I’ve emphasized the relevant portions.
ARTICLE VI—Salaries
The following salary arbitration procedure shall be applicable:
(1) Eligibility. The issue of a Player’s salary may be submitted to final and binding arbitration by any Player or his Club, provided the other party to the arbitration consents thereto. Any Club, or any Player with a total of three or more years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with less than six years of Major League service, may submit the issue of the Player’s salary to final and binding arbitration without the consent of the other party, subject to the provisions of paragraph (4) below.
In addition, a Player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if: (a) he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season; and (b) he ranks in the top seventeen percent (17%) (rounded to the nearest whole number) in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season. If two or more Players are tied in ranking, ties shall be broken consecutively based on the number of days of service accumulated in each of the immediately preceding seasons. If the Players remain tied, the final tiebreaker will be by lot.
ARTICLE XXI—Credited Major League Service
A. Definitions
Those Player rights expressly set forth in the Basic Agreement for which a Player’s eligibility is dependent upon credited Major League service will be determined as follows:
(1) One full day of Major League service will be credited for each day of the championship season a Player is on a Major League Club’s Active List. A total of 172 days of Major League credited service will constitute one full year of credited service. A Player may not be credited with more than one year of credited service, 172 days, in one championship season. Major League service will be computed commencing with the date of the first regularly scheduled championship season game, through and including the date of the last regularly scheduled championship season game. This rule shall apply uniformly to all Players and all Clubs notwithstanding differences in a particular Club’s schedule.
So, you get a day of service when on the active roster.
ARTICLE XV—Miscellaneous
E. Active Player Limit
(2) The active Player limit set forth in Major League Rule 2(c ) for the period beginning with September 1 and ending with the close of the championship season shall be 40 for the duration of this Agreement.
I didn’t look at Rule 2(c ), but I’m presuming that it just says that on Sept 1, the rosters expand to 40. Being on the active roster includes September call-ups when the rosters expand.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks Nostocks, that seems almost clear to me.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Buster is not a Boras client. He is represented by Jeff Berry.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
If somehow the Giants get back within a game or two of a playoff berth in the next week, then I think they ought to bring Posey up, as he would make a far more appealing backup catcher (even given his dicey D) and PH option than Whiteside.
Otherwise, if they’re still 4+ games back, I’d rather have the month of Posey next season than this one.
as he would make a far more appealing backup catcher (even given his dicey D) and PH option than Whiteside
I’m going to disagree with part of this. Whiteside has and continues to be a very good defensive catcher, which is what your backup should be IMO. Good arm, blocks well, and is pretty quick behind the dish. I’ve seen him make plays that BM could not due to his bulk. The pitching staff doesn’t seem to have a problem with him either.
The knock on him has always been his bat. Have to agree that Buster would certainly be a better option off the bench with the bat, and he does have positional flexibilty which would make him much more valuable (think Russell Martin, who can Suck It BTW) )
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Why should you consider defense more important for a backup catcher? Whether he’s the starter or the backup, when he plays he has to play both offense and defense. Buster would be an upgrade, I think, when taking both sides into account. Furthermore, if Posey were the backup, I think he’d probably get an extra start a week compared to what Whiteside has gotten, which has beneficial knock-on effects: keeps Bengie fresher, fewer games with a cleanup hitter with a .270 OBP, etc.
I still think they should not bring him up because they’re unlikely to make the playoffs with or without him. I also don’t have any particular problem with Whiteside, but I think the team would be (marginally) improved if they did give Buster a call-up.
games with a cleanup hitter with a .270 OBP,
This is the real problem. Buster’s bat should be a big improvement. You are correct that the back up does have to play both defense and offense. I just see Whiteside’s value as a better defensive catcher late in the game to prevent passed balls etc. God knows that his bat is not what’s keeping him on the roster.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
They aren’t calling him up and in my opinion that’s the correct decision.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
BUT SABEAN CAN'T BE RIGHT!!! FIRE HIM NOW!!!!!!!!
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
how much do you think he’ll contribute? I don’t think it’d be that much.
A. he’ll be a bench player b/c state and federal law requires the Giants to to bat Molina in the cleanup spot at least 6x/week. B. He’ll probably have an adjustment period meaning he won’t be an impact player immediately. C. The arbitration/service time issue could cost them a lot of money when the team isn’t going anywhere anyway. D. If the team needs Buster Posey to help them get into the playoffs this year, then they should call him up now. If not, just wait.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
state and federal law requires the Giants to to bat Molina in the cleanup spot at least 6x/week.
Proposition #1 on the California Ballot this November seeks to change that :-)
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
still have the feds to deal with.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
It would be nice if he could start hitting for some power. It’s still nice having a prospect with his plate patience.
Man, Chris Gloor is looking good so far.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2009 9:55 AM PDT reply actions
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Aug 26, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Passed ball and an error?
Accidental DFA
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Listened to the end of the Grizzlie game – they had the bases loaded with no out in the bottom of the eleventh – Guzman hit a hard grounder to second which resulted in an out at home, then Bowker struck out and the next batter hit a fly out. The radio commentator quipped that they were playing like the Giants – nice. Matos then proceeded to give up a two run homer in the top of the twelfth.
Seems like Peguero gets two hits every game.
Justin Upton
He hit a grand slam last night off an 0-2 inside fastball. He’s been swinging and missing at a lot of sliders however. He stood out as the best player on the field by far and he’s younger than all but 1 or 2 players on Visalia.
Musgrave just didn’t have it and he had no control of where his pitches were going. It almost seems like he’s pitching injured. He was hitting 90 MPH with the fastball and the body language wasn’t very good. Hope he rights the ship, he’s always been one of the good guys on the team.
Awaiting his arrival in SF: Jesse English
Eastern League All-Star Team
It was announced today, 8/28, that Brett Pill (1B) and Brock Bond (2B) were selected to the 2009 Eastern League All-Star Team. (No Minor Lines for 8/26 and 8/27 – so I’m just putting it on here.) Great combo – Bond gets on, Pill hits him in! Congrats to both Connecticut Defenders!!
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