An Open Letter About Edgar Renteria
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 20, 2009 2:54 PM PDT
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PrintTo Whom It May Concern;
Edgar Renteria might be the worst starting position player in baseball. He’s at least in the discussion. Don’t take this as an attack on the idea behind his signing – I thought it was a good idea at the time. I regret that thought, and I wish there enough Lava Soap of the Mind to scrub it from my psyche, but I can’t complain about having Renteria on the team. I liked the length of the contract, and I was only a little put off by the money. Watching a year of Brian Bocock and an expired Omar Vizquel flailing at the plate will do that to a man.
So assigning blame is pointless. The end result is that Edgar Renteria is here, and he’s one of the worst starting players in baseball. I could feed you stats to prove my point – maybe throw in a link to Renteria’s FanGraphs page, which is worth 10,000 words – but you can use your eyes for this one. We all thought those post-signing scouts were just being curmudgeons when they panned the Renteria deal, but it turns out that Renteria has only one decent baseball-related skill left: he’s a very steady fielder on balls hit within his range. Renteria is no longer good at everything else that is related to the sport. He can’t catch up to fastballs; he can’t lay off breaking balls; he doesn’t hit for any power at all; he has no range; he’s slow; he’s impatient at the plate.
That’s just how it is. He probably deserves to be on a major league roster based on his one remaining skill, so this isn’t to say he should be released. And blessings to Juan Uribe for his surprising offensive production this year – it doesn’t seem like much, but it’s something more than we expected – but I understand if you don’t feel as if he’s a viable option as a starter. Kevin Frandsen has obviously displeased the organization, and I’m not really privy to the internal conversations as to why, so I’m not going to pretend to know if that’s a reasonable thing or not. And while I’m confident Frandsen can outhit Renteria at this point, I’m not sure if Frandsen can be as good defensively as Renteria, which is a pretty telling lack of faith. Maybe the reports from Fresno are positive, but I’d be surprised.
So there might not be a palatable in-house alternative for the rest of the 2009 season. I’d probably give Uribe more at-bats if I were in charge, and I’d certainly have Frandsen on the roster, but those aren’t changes that will make a whole lot of difference.
What will make a difference, though, is if you treat Renteria as if he is one of the worst starting position players in baseball. This would mean:
- Not hitting him as high as second in the order, which can only lead to more at-bats.
- Not hitting him in the middle of the order – there have been a couple of lineups in which he’s hit fifth! – which will only lead to wins if the other team is unable to take the field through the tears and laughter
- Not intentionally putting Renteria into high-leverage situations, such as putting him into pinch-hit for Travis Ishikawa with runners on base in today's game against the Reds.
- Going into the offseason with shortstop as a priority. Again. It stinks, but it’s the best way to improve the team offensively and defensively. The money given to Renteria isn’t coming back. But the position can be upgraded. So you can lose the money and have poor production, or you can lose the money and have better production.
I understand why you took a chance on Renteria. He just turned 34, but he used to be an elite player. He had a strong second-half last year. There weren’t a lot of ways to upgrade the position without giving up prospects or draft picks. The position was an absolute organizational ghost town. But that’s in the past. Right now, Renteria does not help the Giants win. Next year, Renteria probably isn’t going to help the Giants win. The short-term options are limited, but there are things you can do to minimize the disadvantage.
I did love, though, that he wanted to tear Russell Martin's larynx out with his teeth. He'll always have a spot in my heart for that one.
Sincerely,
Some Guy in His Mother’s Basement
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It is really gross that Kevin Frandsen hasn’t been given a chance over Rent.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
Maybe, though I am not a Frandsensualist.
I think baseball organizations are often wrong (a byproduct of having to make lots of decisions about dynamic skillsets in an environment of predicting an uncertain future), but seldom do I think they are blindly, willfully, irrationally opposed to a player of theirs moving up if he’ll succeed. Teams might be wrong in their guesswork, but it’s not like all of us outside of baseball world have the wisdom and information to see that Frandsen is a MLB-ready player and those inside baseball are just stupid and wrong. There is some information or some point of view or some knowledge that the Giants have that we don’t— a proposition that is easy to believe.
Moreover, we know that Sabean made/took a lot of phone calls about trades in June-July and possibly still. Ask yourself how many of those calls did the other GM ask about Frandsen. If it is so obvious that he is ML ready and that the Giants simply don’t know what they’ve got in this guy, then other teams could have and should have gotten him as a throw-in (maybe in the Garko deal? Single A pitcher + eternal AAA guy?).
Lastly, I am not copyrighting Frandsensualist; a plaque in the McCoven Lounge will be fine.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
You will find a list of the alternates in the Lady’s Room.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't know. I keep getting thrown out of there.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
You got a problem with Frandsvestite?
For the most part I agree with this, but in this case it looks to me like the organization is just being stubborn. Frandsen is clearly a low-ceiling player who profiles best as a utility infielder, so they can’t stop thinking of him as a utility infielder, no matter how desperately they need someone to start. Then he started mouthing off and they figured he was more trouble than he was worth.
I think Frandsensualist fits better with Romosexual and Velezbian.
One, like the other two, it uses his whole name.
Two, like the other two, it refers to a whole persuasion, not merely one facet (and basically a clothing choice).
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I hadn’t heard “Velezbian” yet. I like it.
Though I am not one.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 20, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Frandsendentalist?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 20, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree. You say that teams seldom inhibit bringing up a player if they think he will succeed. Edgar Renteria is playing below a replacement level (offensively) and is playing below average defensively. Even if you don’t think Kevin Frandsen is a perennial starter in the major leagues, it would be really difficult for him to contribute less than Renteria – yes he could be Burriss, but his minor-league numbers just don’t point to that. He has produced at every minor league level, and I would argue that even if he was a “AAAA-player” that is still preferable to Renteria at this point. While they might no be acting “blindly, willfully, irrationally” with regards to Frandsen, they seem to be doing so with regards to Renteria.
Additionally, regarding the trade theory you made: I think there is a lot of group-think between the management of baseball teams, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see some capable players fall between the cracks.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Serious question
If Frandsen’s numbers are such a lock that he would at least be acceptably productive at the ML level (nobody suggesting that he will be Ted Williams, but not 2009 Renteria, either), then why do you believe the Giants have not brought him up and kept him? I am really curious about people’s theories— and hoping/assuming that they aren’t “GINATS BRZASS CANT READ NUMBERS.”
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think there’s more to it then just production. Sabean paid Renteria 9MM a year, and to bench him for a player they already had who is making substantially less money is Sabean admitting to his boss that he made a huge mistake, and a very costly one at that. With Sabean already on the brink of getting fired, I’d have to assume any mistake costing this much could get him fired
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Aug 20, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
But if he put the guy on the DL, then he wouldn’t have to admit anything, except that he is hurt.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s true, and I wish he had, but keeping Frandsen in AAA after a stint in the majors where he couldn’t hit allows Sabean to label him as a AAAA player instead of showing that he didn’t evaluate the players he had in the minors well enough to begin the season
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Aug 20, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m not arguing that the Giants have been irrational with Frandsen (see below), I am saying they have been irrational with Renteria, and if Sabean want to save face, fine, put his ass on the DL. Except then they would have to bring up Frandsen – and that will never happen.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s kinda weird though, they’ve been irrational about Frandsen even seemingly before he started complaining about his demotions. Spring training was when it really started, choosing Burriss over Frandsen even though both had good springs, and even though spring training stats are meaningless
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Aug 20, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Let me start by saying that I don’t like Brian Sabean. I believe his track record is spotty at best, and I think his best moves have been buoyed largely by luck – not all cases, but definitely some of the big ones. I don’t want to argue this point, I only want you to understand where I am coming from.
So here are some reasons off the top of my head:
I think Sabean has a total Jones for veteran players. I think he believes strongly in intangibles and is unwilling to give a young SS a chance at playing a premium position. I also don’t think he values minor-league statistics. He believes that veterans can play through bad streaks, even if they are season-long. Also, I don’t think he wants to tolerate “bad-attitudes” anymore, and he may be getting some pressure from Neukom on this front, to maintain the “Giants Way”. Also: GINATS BRZASS CANT READ NUMBERS. But seriously, have you seen any evidence that this team uses anything more than the most rudimentary statistical analysis (BA, RBI, bloody noses) to evaluate players? Sabean is really old-school.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
What’s funny about the “bad attitude” thing, is that Frandsen was one of the guys going into last season who was supposed to help turn the clubhouse around, attitude-wise. Him and Rowand were responsible for printing up those “Warrior Spirit” t-shirts, if I recall correctly, and he was being looked at as a great clubhouse prescience because of his boisterous youth and lifelong Giant fandom. My, how quickly things change.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 20, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe, but Frandsen certainly wore his everywhere he went during that ST.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 20, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve seen no evidence that they look at anything more than basic numbers like BA. How many times did the words “.300 hitter” and “All-Star” come up in the Sanchez presser. That may be just trying to talk in terms fans can understand, but somehow I doubt it. The fact that they haven’t fired Dunston bolsters this point of view.
I really do believe that Sabean is one of those few old schoolers still in upper management that scoffs at sabermetrics & number-crunching. Him & the people he surrounds himself with try to do it “old school” just to prove a point. It’s not like they haven’t heard of these ideas yet. They know how other teams evaluate players. They choose to not use this new method. They’re being stubborn.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
Yeah, it almost seems like management by spite sometimes, like they’re trying to prove that the young bucks are wrong, that OBP really doesn’t matter. It’s bizarre, but I think it is understating the case to say that they do not value plate discipline. I think it’s actually more accurate to say that they value the absence of plate discipline.
??
I don’t know, is something going on? I hope you’re not intimating that he might be coming to the Giants.
Yeah, he gets shat on like Frandsen, basically. He’s been languishing in AAA at Sacromento the entire season despite the fact that he’s got a career SLG % north of .500.
Um, I don’t know much about the guy, but pulling up his stats, it looks as though he hits about as well as Frandsen (roughly .750 OPS) in the PCL, but he’s a corner outfielder. That’s not very good. He seems to have stalled out a bit after having hit really well in AA. He’s 25, so I guess there’s still a chance for him to put it together.
It’s worth noting that a statistical analysis actually backs up Sabean’s view on Frandsen!
His MLE OPS this season is around 660 and his ZIPS RoS projection is an OPS of 668 which coupled with at best average defense at SS suggest that he’s isn’t likely to be productive at the major league level at all. Thee projections also suggest that we’re better off going with Renteria than Frandsen for the rest of the year.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
His MLE OPS this season is around 660
Better than Renteria
at best average defense at SS
Better than Renteria
Thee projections also suggest that we’re better off going with Renteria than Frandsen for the rest of the year.
How?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
True, but it was more refering to the fact that Frandsen wouldn’t be a productive major league player. Also the decision as to who to go with should be based on who’s going to play better not who’s played better.
Renteria has been above average (barely) defensively this year & i’m not sure there’s any evidence to suggest that Frandsen/Renteria isn’t going to be a wash defensively.
The projections suggest a slight regression in Renteria’s numbers although it’s not a big or unreasonable one. They also project that Frandsen to perform similar to his MLE which seems reasonable as that’s how he’s performed both this year and in the majors to date.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Dude this is an inflatible strawman aurgument.
It is not that Frandsen is awesome. It is that Frandsen might be workable patch on worn tire with a hole in it. I somehow doubt you mean to say, "Because Frandsen isn’t a nice brand new tire he should not be used to plug the hole in the old worn tire (Renteria) currently in use and one should just keep running on the same flat tire that won’t old enough air tell a brand new tire magically appears." Please tell me that I not what you are trying to say.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
There seemed to be two arguments being made, one that Frandsen was getting unfairly treated and should play over Renteria and the other that Sabean doesn’t use statistics and ignores minor league numbers.
I was merely pointing our that the irony that if you use statistics and minor league numbers then the conclusion you’d come to is that Renteria should start over Frandsen, so the second point was contradicting the first point somewhat.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Aug 21, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Win.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Needs more 12 galaxies
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Wir müssen wissen — wir werden wissen!
by seesdifferent on Aug 21, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
HEY!
You posted something that wasn’t douchey! That actually made me laugh
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 21, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
If the theory fits.
It’s actually quite simple. If you evaluate Frandsen and Renteria based on batting average, they are not so far off. Also Frandsen is not really a SS-class glove.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Renteria, contract aside, would be a fine utility guy. Uribe-SS, Sanchez-2B has to be the best arrangement we currently have in the system. I’m not sure how Frandsen even fits into the conversation, unless Sanchez can’t stay healthy.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Renteria, contract aside, would be a fine utility guy.
Please forward this information to: bsabean@sfgiants.com and bbochy@sfgiants.com
Thank You
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
When you're sliding into first, and your pants begin to burst...
Renteria…. Renteria….
by BobSacamano on Aug 20, 2009 3:10 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
When you're sliding into second, and you need some disinfectant...
Renteria… Renteria…
When your sliding into third, and you feel a big ol' turd...
Renteria… Renteria…
When your sliding into home, and your pants begin to foam...
Renteria… Renteria…
When you turn a fielder's choice, and feel something moist...
Renteria. Renteria.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
when you have no fielding range and diving makes you feel something strange
Renteria. Renteria.
With malice towards the Dodgers
When you swing at a pitch in the dirt, and your bowels begin to hurt...
Renteria… Renteria…
by BobSacamano on Aug 20, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
When you can't put down a bunt, and you have to squeeze and grunt
Renteria… Renteria…
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
When you're a patently crappy baseball player and inadvertently soil yourself
Renteria… Renteria…
Anagram of "knowing how to win" = WOW, I KNOW NOTHING
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Aug 20, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
When you can't hit fuck and you pull the muscle suck
Renteria… Renteria…
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
If you have to take a shit, don't throw a fit
Renteria… Renteria…
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 20, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Is this all based on Cocaine?
Why is everyone saying Renteria twice?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
EDGAR RENTERIA DOES COCAINE WITH DUSTIN ACKLEY
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
That’s probably my favorite McC meme ever.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Cross your fingers, say you’re all high,
pretend you’re on coke and see what life brings…
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Ever seen the episode of Chappelle Show in which he gets a women’s choir to sing a song about diarrhea? It’s that song.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I've seen them all
But I don’t remember that one.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
What’s truly remarkable is that Edgar Renteria is not only terrible but proving to be the major exception to the theory that players coming from the AL tend to dominate when they go to/return to the NL. (See: Cliff Lee and Matt Holliday). I was pessimistic about the Renteria signing, but I could almost understand the front-office rationale behind it: get Rent back to the NL, where he was more comfortable, and you get his 2007 season redux.
His OPS is now more than 50 points below what it was in Detroit.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
get Rent back to the DL, where he was more comfortable,
ftfy
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
Fixed
get Rent back to the DL, where he was more comfortable valuable,
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
This statement seems to be contradicting your statement below. I mean, Nefi was good right?
/activates force field
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Neifi’s glvoe probably made him better…sigh
by NeifiChicken on Aug 20, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
/checks fangraphs
according to their WAR and salary scale, Neifi was actually a productive move signing for SF….I don’t know what to believe now
by NeifiChicken on Aug 20, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
How can a player be less valuable than Neifi Perez? How can such evil exist?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
OK OK. Let’s not say things that we can’t take back.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Aug 20, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
You know, I would rather have Neifi on this team. When he would come to the plate, you knew what to expect: he would either ground out weekly to the pitcher, or bloop a hit over the third baseman. When Edgar comes to the plate, he looks like he could do something (until he swings of course), and I am like, “Hey this guy was once good! Remember that time he won the World Series single-handedly?! That was awesome.”
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
oh, my point
Neifi was a pleasant surprise when he would do something good, Edgar is a complete disappointment all of the time.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m becoming more and more convinced that the WAR salary scale is a pestilential affliction in Nerdy Baseball Stat Land that should be abolished or at least ignored. Every uninspired, hopeless, dooming-the-team-to-mediocrity move gets justified these days with “but he’s worth his salary in dollars-per-WAR!”
Absolutely agreed
Spoiler alert: players salaries already committed to (nor abstractions thereof) don’t lead to runs scored/prevented and thus games won.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, I agree with this. WAR salary equivalents are an affront to common sense.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
How are those computed, anyway? It seems like there’s probably some kind of mismatch between ex-ante and ex-post numbers.
Basically it’s a certain dollar amount for every WAR I believe.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen, come back!
But is it this year’s salary per this year’s production? Or this year’s salary per last year’s production? Those might give very different answers, and they’re measuring different things.
This year’s production. Why would they use last year’s production?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Because at the time the salary was agreed, this year’s production wasn’t known. So the price would be based on last year’s production (a proxy for expected production). This would be more relevant for determining the “going rate” for a given level of production.
Perhaps we’re talking about different things?
I was talking about how “valuable” dollar wise a player has been to a team. People attatch a dollar amounto to 1 WAR and then just multiply that by how many WAR a player had. This applies to any previous year’s stats, as well as this year’s stats pro-rated to a whole season.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen, come back!
Ok,
So I had to look this up for myself cause I didn’t believe you, but when I typed: “Neifi Perez” into Fangraphs, my computer broke.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
You act like there's a problem with Renteria
May I point out that his OPS+ is still 2 points higher than our one season of Neifi Perez?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen, come back!
I just got it too. Dur…
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Grant, I would echo everything you said. I would also (and I don’t normally do this, but I think it helps all of our case) give the guy the benefit of the doubt and state that he is playing hurt (though I believe he is just sucky). So even if he doesn’t suck more that just about everybody in the history of suck, he is at the very least playing hurt and it is affecting his hitting (at the very least). So why have the Giants not put him on the DL where he belongs? Two reasons: 1) They believe that veterans can improve through "just throwin’ ’em out there and 2) The Giants REALLY hate Kevin Frandsen. Like The Bride from Kill Bill kind of hate. Frandsen must have shot a pregnant woman at a wedding or something…
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 3:22 PM PDT reply actions
Only the Giants could
obscure the nice surprise that has been Juan Uribe with the virtually guaranteed from the go suck of Edgrrrr.
Any lineup that has Renteria hitting 5th from now on
Will not have my attention. It is unbelievable that a major league manager would do that.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
And yet, Bochy's the type of manager
who will not put vets in the 8-hole because it’s “offensive.” And even if Bochy did do that, Rent & Winn probably wouldn’t make the most of it by taking more pitches/drawing more walks. They’d still have their ridiculous at-bats (Renteria far more guilty of this offense than Winn, obviously).
you have to admit
perfect follow-on to Molina in the 4 hole
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Aug 21, 2009 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Anagram of "shortstop Edgar Renteria"
THE RETARDATION PROGRESS
Anagram of "knowing how to win" = WOW, I KNOW NOTHING
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Aug 20, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
My take on Renteria...
At the time I too was okay with the signing. I thought the money was a little bit high, but a two year commitment was solid and I thought he was poised for a rebound. Just watching him actually play changes your mind quickly, as he almost never hits the ball with any authority.
I don’t really know what you can do about it, I’m not too fond of handing Uribe the starting gig, but the argument certainly has some merit at this point.
Maybe we can slip him some roids
Barry Bonds career ISO: .303
Edgar Renteria 2009 wOBA: .282
Also, I think this is relavant:
Barry Zito scoring after playing 12 bars of Over the Hills and Far Away: .450
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
You mean more roids
And another false birth certificate.
by MoreroidsforZito on Aug 20, 2009 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I just hope the dopey FO buys a WII Fit and insists that Ed-glop drop 15 pounds so he can occasionally bend over to field…
Juan Marichal's bat > JR's head
by titofuentes4 on Aug 21, 2009 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m really surprised that other teams are playing him like a pitcher defensively. The only hits he ever seems to get are the opposite way and softly hit. Pull in the outfield and play him the other way and he may never get another hit again.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Aug 20, 2009 3:37 PM PDT reply actions
Actually
If you look at his hit charts for the season, the singles are spread around the field (at least in AT&T)
“Screw you Grant, I’m batting him 5th tomorrow.”
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
/consults Magic Meatball to fill out the rest of the lineup
The strongest force is the universe is biding its time in Fresno, brother.
by rightcenterfielder on Aug 20, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
God, I miss this show
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Believe it or not
Edgrrrrr is hitting .308 in August and is 8 for his last 20
What we all need is a distraction from this topic
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
Quick Quiz
Which SS has these numbers for the season:
.259 .328 .354
six steals in 11 attempts..
Survey says: Rafael Furcal
Yeah, he’s got better range I know.
Ok, how about this guys who would have cost us a draft pick:
.281 .315 .374
Orlando Cabrera.
Kind of a weird comment, since no one is arguing that we should have signed those guys. But you do understand that they’re both doing MUCH BETTER than Renteria, right?
Not sure I’d agree Furcal is doing much better. Edgar’s numbers are:
.261 .314 .321
Furcal has six less RBI with 75 more ABs.
Cabrera has 10 more in 100 more ABs.
Neither is playing hurt either.
who is saying we should have taken them instead?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
The point is there are other SS’s that don’t hit much.
What other options did the Giants have? Those are the names that were thrown around in the post season IRRC.
But that’s not what we’re talking about. Most of us had no big problem with the Renteria signing. What’s driving us crazy is that it hasn’t worked out but the team isn’t doing anything about it. Renteria still plays nearly every day. He still hits high in the order. He even pinch-hits in crucial, game-changing situations!
Bochy and Sabean need to be able to see what’s right in front of their faces, and they need to adapt.
Stop using RBI as a tool to measure a players worth
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
How in the world do people like you still exist??
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Prepare to be ridiculed. There are a lot of folks here who take their stats seriously. Saying a player is good/bad based on RBI or W/L totals will get you laughed at.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
And don’t even try to bring batting average with runners in scoring position into things!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
RBI is opportunity based and is largely not a good measure of any specific skill. It’s basically a stay which says “This player has x RBIs, from which you can conclude that he’s batted x number of runs in”
It doesn’t tell you anything about how or why those runs came in, which is very important because you need to know how and why the runs came in if you’re going to have ANY idea how and why the runs will come in in the future.
It’s FAR more important to know about the stats that reflect the reasons runs get scored, not the stats that reflect the runs that were scored.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think a guy accidentally hits in 100 runners in a year. If a guy has 100 RBIs, he’s damn valuable to a team. My point is RBIs can be an excellent indicator of a player’s worth. Not the only indicator, but a helpful one.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
In 2001 Barry Bonds had 73 HRs and only 129 RBIs. That means he only knocked in 56 players not himself.
Bonds sucked.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
That still hurts
Bonds drove in approx TWO GUYS PER WEEK other than himself. This many years later, the failure of the team to capitalize on him still makes twinges in my stomach.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 21, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
There was a time in my life when I would have believed as you state here. Then Pete Inciviglia had a pair of seasons were he was endanger of knocking in 100 of RBI in a season and it became crystal clear it is all about the team having guys that get on base in front of you and you Manager willing to let you have a bazillion P.A.’s in the heart of the order with men on base.
In ’90 Inciviglia had 85 RBI’s sporting a 187 ISO (SLG-BA) hitting mostly 5th & 6th. Of course most of the time 2 of 3 hitters in front of him were sporting 383 OBP & 363 OBP ( Franco & Palmiero) and either Daughtery ( 347 OBP) or Baines (377 OBP). As result Inciviglia had175 PA with at least one runner in scoring position. He also got 597 PA’s that season. So about almost 30% of the time he was ina postion to generate a RBI.
If you want to look into his best RBI year ( ’93 with the Phils) you will see he had a couple guys with over 400 OBP in 2 of the three spots in front of him a lot of the time. Really the only thing RBIs show is managers stubourness, or other players being willingness to consitantly work the count well enough to make fewer outs with their P.A.s in front of him. That is all they show.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Pedro Feliz also drove in runs.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Aug 21, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but driving in runs is the product of certain components, some in the player's control and some not
Hitting safely is somewhat in the player’s control, and thus worth measuring (and the measures of that are numerous and debated). But the other indispensible ingredient of the RBI is that a runner is on base ahead of you (except HR)— and that is something that the you did not do, have no control over, and thus deserve no credit for.
In other words, if you are a skilled hitter, then you are contributing the components to scoring to runs that you can. You can’t just put on the magician clothes and conjure previous baserunners in a smoke cloud, no matter how much one wants to get into a ‘Poof.’
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
For example
Today Fred Lewis didn’t get an RBI because Eli Whiteside couldn’t drop a bunt. Yesterday he didn’t score a run because Edgar Renteria couldn’t drive him from 3rd with one out. Neither one of these things have anything to do with Fred Lewis.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
The day of Fredemption is at hand!
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Aug 20, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
That is the idea – for a team.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 20, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, there were a lot of wrong guys to sign at shortstop this offseason, but we got one of them.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Two other Renteria numbers
.302
.340
First one with runners in scoring position, the second runners in scoring position with 2 out.
Look, he isn’t worth the money, but he’s doing something with guys in scoring position.
lol whatever
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Have you been gone lately?
we’ve had this discussion about 20 times this week. “clutch” does exist in some form, but studies have shown it’s worth less than 1 win when spread out over an entire season. It is completely meaningless
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
i guess I’m not a regular like you guys so i should shut up.
Don’t know what the “studies” say, but I’d rather have a guy at the plate who’s hitting .340 in a given situation than a guy hitting .140.
It has nothing to do with being a regular
jesus christ, I’m pretty sure you’re all the same person, because you’re all saying exactly the same things. Did you watch Edgar play today? He was a fucking abomination and has been all year. IDGAF what his average is w/ RISP. Today he came up in a CRITICAL FUCKING CLUTCH ASS SITUATION and GROUNDED INTO A DOUBLE PLAY which was the WORST possible outcome.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Watching Edgar Renteria every day would tick anyone off
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
DER IF U WUR A REEL GINATS FAN U WULD B TOO
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Relax! So the guy doesn’t understand advanced stats…explaining a point rather than laying into him would be a lot more productive.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Aug 20, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, yes, I agree, Edgar hasn’t been very good. You guys just make it sound like he’s the worst player to ever play the game.
As for advanced stats, I understand some of them, I also think that driving in runs and hitting in “clutch” situations when you’re a team that rarely does that are very good things.
The point isn’t that he’s a super star, just that you’re over reacting IMHO.
not just worst player EVAR but all history’s greatest monster
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
Wait-- I thought we determined that ice is history's greatest monster?
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
http://twitter.com/mccoveychron/status/3436317833
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
Official Worst Players of All Time
5. Marvin Benard
4. Edgar Renteria
3. Pedro Feliz
2. Edgar Renteria
1. S.I Russell Martin
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
number 2 is supposed to be Armando Benitez
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Aug 20, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
1. Im annoyed at the game
2. We’ve had this discussion 10000000 times this week
3. IM ANNOYED AT THE GAME.
Apologies for being a dick.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Well, while we’re ripping guys for LOB, why not Whiteside and Garko who left 4 and Velez, Uribe and Panda who left 3 OB???
Yes
the offense was a clusterfuck of fail today. But Edgar has been consistently terrible, while some of those other guys have been pretty good, especially panda
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Velez and Uribe have been pleasant surprises this year.
Nobody expects Whiteside to be anything other than bad as a hitter.
Sandoval has obviously been great.
Garko has had a slow start. Maybe if he keeps it up for another FOUR MONTHS we’ll get on him just like Edgar.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Correction:
After his grand slam a few weeks ago, I expect to see Eli Whiteside run dingers.exe on a regular basis. The fact that he has not is greatly disappointing to me, and I eagerly await Grant’s twelve-paragraph post “An Open Letter About Eli Whiteside.”
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
Not Allowed
If you run an Open Letter on your blog about the backup catcher, you get banned for life ala Pete Rose.
Eliminate that pesky Dominatrix in one easy step. Step 1: Tell her you're a Cubs fan!
Edgar was spectacular in the field this Reds series.
Ask anyone who watched the game and doesn’t fall asleep when the Giants aren’t batting.
lol
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
But the sample size is small, a .340 average can quickly turn into a .250 ave
I R 5
by say hey nation on Aug 21, 2009 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions
And for his career those numbers change to .299 and .263, respectively. If you want to suppose that they have any meaning at all, which a lot of people will not agree with you for, it’s much better to cite his career numbers than his single season numbers. At least then you’re talking about hundreds of plate appearances, as opposed to dozens (at best).
Also, BA not the best tool. OBP is better for no other reason than that it means “times you didn’t make an out” – which is far more comprehensive.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
More Stats
.207
.371
97
First is Renteria’s BA w/ no runners on base
Second is his SLG w RISP
Third is his ABs w RISP
If you just take a basic stat like OPS, ER is the worst of any qualified SS in MLB; he rarely drives in more than one run at a time and his opportunities to drive in runs with this pathetic offense are few and far between. He rarely does anything to get a rally STARTED, and he doesn’t drive the ball far enough to score runs from third with less than one out (but he does have 11 RBIs with runners on third w/less than 2 outs, so at least he cashes in a few of those).
I was critical of the decision to sign Renteria at the time due to the $9M/yr cost for a shortstop with all the range of a banana slug and a bat of similar value. I won’t kill Sabean for not signing O. Hudson since Burriss looked like a solid mid-level 2B, but the decision to drop so much money on a guy like Renteria is exactly the reason this team will continue to destroy great efforts from their pitching staff. The Giants need gap hitters or strong lefties who can jack the ball down the LF line, which is why not going after Adam Dunn was a huge mistake. Dunn may not be a good option in LF or 1B for a team in which defense vs. run scoring are the reverse of the Giants, but he would have been fine parked in LF for this team.
Eliminate that pesky Dominatrix in one easy step. Step 1: Tell her you're a Cubs fan!
Thank you for mentioning Dunn
Does anyone else think Felipe Alou had a lot to do with the Renteria signing? I don’t think Alou knows this isn’t the Renteria from 1997. Why not spend a little bit more and get Dunn, who may not be the best AVG guy, which Sabean seems to be obsessed with, but would immediately be far and away the best power hitter in the Giants’ lineup, and couldn’t possibly be any worse defensively in LF than Fred Lewis or Eugenio Velez. It has burned me since the beginning of the season. You couldn’t possibly convince me that Dunn wouldn’t have chosen SF over the freakin’ Nationals, so the only reason we didn’t sign him is because we didn’t pursue him. We’re a far better club offensively with Emmanuel Burriss playing out of position at SS and batting 8th and Dunn in LF batting 4th than we are now. You’re so close to having a legit contender, Sabean, but we’re being sabotaged by a senile old man!
and couldn’t possibly be any worse defensively in LF than Fred Lewis or Eugenio Velez.
Except for the fact that he is.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I like fangraphs.com too, but every single play in the outfield for Fred Lewis is an adventure. They’re on the same tier, and no statistical barrage is going to convince me otherwise. The difference between them is one is a major league hitter. The other isn’t.
and no statistical barrage is going to convince me otherwise
So basically, you are holding on to this mistaken conclusion no matter how wrong it is. Well, at least you are honest about it.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty much.
I play a lot of fantasy sports, so I do a good bit of statistical research, and feel I have a pretty good sense of how they correlate to real life. I also do a lot of reading and a bit more posting over at Golden State of Mind, the Warriors SBNation blog, so I see a lot of instances where some pretty intricate statistics are used to justify mediocrity. I also physically watch a good deal of Giants games, and can say that outside of Edgar Renteria at the plate and the offense in general, Fred Lewis in the outfield has caused me to slap my forehead in disbelief more times than anything else Giants-related. He looks lost. Even catches he makes he looks like he has no idea how he came up with the ball. From what I’ve seen with my own two eyes, Fred Lewis is a bottom of the barrel MLB defensive outfielder, one I would happily bench in exchange for another bottom of the barrel defensive outfielder who cranks out 30-40 HRs and 100 RBIs per year.
This really should be included on this site's FAQ
- RBI are 100% related to the amount of opportunity a batter gets. Dunn wouldn’t get 100 RBI on the Giants.
- Dunn’s net run contribution to the Giants would be a negative. He doesn’t have range and even the balls he gets to are an adventure.
- Saying you play “Fantasy Sports” gives me a good idea of how you value baseball players. I have seen other posters do this as well. You weight 5/5 offensive stats greater than analysing a players overall contribution to wins and loses.
I am not a Fred Lewis fan. I get grief from other posters here about my criticism of Lewis. However, he is still a better overall player than Dunn.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Better overall player?
I’ve been a baseball fan much longer than I’ve played fantasy sports. Adam Dunn is on the bottom tier of defensive players. Fred Lewis is one tier above him. Adam Dunn is an elite power talent in the league. Fred Lewis is barely a major league hitter. I don’t think you’d find many major league GMs who would sign them to the same deal or start Lewis ahead of Dunn. I kind of look at it this way, Dunn is inarguably a far superior hitter than Lewis. We already have a bad defensive player in LF. Why not have a bad defensive outfielder who can hit?
And as far as RBIs
No, Dunn probably wouldn’t have 100 RBIs on the Giants. But he would have a whole lot more than 16 after 160 ABs with runners on, like Lewis does.
Just stop
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
He looks lost. Even catches he makes he looks like he has no idea how he came up with the ball.
True. Also: doesn’t affect the team in any way. He can look as lost as he wants as long as he makes more outs than most LF’s.
Fred Lewis in the outfield has caused me to slap my forehead in disbelief more times than anything else Giants-related.
If you put a broomstick in LF, it’ll rarely cause you to slap your head. It’ll never drop fly balls, never have a hard time picking up the ball, never misjudge a line drive. That wouldn’t make it a good LF. That’s not to say that not making mistakes on balls you get to isn’t a part of playing defense, it’s just to say that it’s not the only part. There’s also actually getting to the ball. And Fred Lewis is an elite LF when it comes to getting to the ball.
A few games ago, Jonathan Sanchez gave up a line drive into the CF-LF gap. Lewis ran hard towards it, got to it at the last second, and then dropped it. Next hitter hit a HR, and everybody was pissed at Lewis. You say you watch a lot of games, so I’m sure you know what play I’m talking about. Look at the replay. Yes, once Lewis got to the ball, he should have caught it. But how many LF in the league even get to that? 5? That’s an automatic double 90% of the time. That’s the case with many of Lewis’s bad plays: just because he should have caught them, that doesn’t mean most LF would.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Dunn is all of Lewis’s error-making capabilities with none of the range.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
So what you’re saying is that Dunn would not drop as many fly balls as Lewis drops because Lewis will get to more fly balls.
Therefore, Dunn will not drop as many balls as Lewis.
Therefore, Dunn’s Defense >> Lewis’ Defense.
That appears to be what you’re saying.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Aug 21, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
You're all right, I'm so wrong.
This is kind of a group response to the large amounts of defensiveness being posted here. I’ve been a Giants fan a good deal longer than I’ve played fantasy sports, Lars, so I’m fully aware of what makes a good overall ballplayer, and some sort of acumen swinging the bat definitely qualifies, in fact, is largely considered much more important than defensive prowess. If Lewis is such a “better overall player than Dunn,” why won’t he command anywhere near the same amount of money in free agency? Because he’s a marginal-at-best major league hitter, which is far more important than being a second from being a bottom tier defensive player. Do the Giants, as a team, need another player who is weak offensively and better-than-terrible but still pretty bad defensively? Or do we need somebody who can freakin’ hit, regardless of defense? The choice is obvious to me. I would have Dunn in LF over Lewis any day.
you win games by scoring more than the other team.
If you increase the number of runs you score by increasing the number of runs the other team scores, that’s not likely to help you win games, is it? There’s no bonus for adding an offensive player to a defense orientated team.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Straw Hats
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Aug 21, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok screw stats – name me 12 Left Fielders that do better work in the field. Go for it. Also remeber I will not count a single guy that stomps arround in small band box left field spots becuase an outfielder that is statue is a bigger defesive problem then one that rolls arround on skates. Knock yourself out sport.
I get you don’t like him and he drives you nuts. I still have Giants from the 70’s that make me grind my teeth but that does not make them the worst in the league. Does not even make them in the lower half.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
So...
Buster will be here hopefully, in a couple of weeks.
Just sayin’.
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
Uh, what?
Sabean was very clear that Posey will not be called up this year.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
He’s going to the world cup.
Apparently there’s a world cup.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_World_Cup
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
It’s long sighted.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 20, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m more shocked at the news that Sabean was very clear on anything. When did this happen?
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/08/17/SPSA199RCQ.DTL
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Doing my best troll impression.
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Aug 20, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Grant,
I agree with everything you have to say about Renteria. Can you do me a solid and write something similar about Homery? It would just make me feel better to read something about how bad he’s been. I just need someone to share my disdain for that man. You know, whenever you get the time.
Thanks.
"Liberal is to the media what the 2008 San Francisco Giants are to good baseball."
-My Father.
I'll do it for you
Bob Howry should only be used when the Giants have a lead of 3 or more runs. Quid pro quo, Bob Howry should never be used
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s German for “Whale’s vagina”
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
you mean: ipso facto
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Isnt “quid pro quo” do something for me so I will do something for you kinda deal?
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Yes. It means "this for that."
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Carpe Diem?
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
O captain my captain!
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Aug 20, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
semper ubi sub ubi
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 20, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Neither is syphillis, but I'm not in a hurry to get that, either.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
When the Giants notebook is posted, you can read Molina’s reaction to the news that Buster Posey doesn’t have a September call-up in the works. That decision by GM Brian Sabean seems to indicate that there’s a good chance Posey won’t be the opening-day catcher next season.
After all, the pitching staff will be the strength of next year’s team, too. And it’s hard to trust that staff to a catcher who would be literally jumping in with both feet.
Hmm…
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
JACKS!
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Aug 20, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
literally jumping in with both feet
I’d like to see this
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
You think a writer would know the difference between “literally” and “figuratively”
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
You know, many words get misused, but “literally” is the only one I can think of that people you so often when they mean the exact opposite.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
'literally' is used this way so often
it’s actually be granted this status in several dictionaries. Language morphs. Deal with it!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
"begs the question" is a close second
though it is a phrase not a word.
Wir müssen wissen — wir werden wissen!
by seesdifferent on Aug 21, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Except the common usage of "begs the question" is actually closer to the meaning than its increasingly uncommon usage as a type of logical fallacy.
I think I mentioned it before, but I think it’s time for us who know what the logical fallacy of “begging the question” is to let that phrase go and let modern usage have it back. It was always horribly non-descriptive of the fallacy, and I felt increasingly pompous using the phrase, as I would invariably have to explain it. Instead, I have switched to “assuming the very thing you’re trying to prove,” and people actually get it without the pedantic detour. Besides, the common current usage of that phrase is more literally true.
I have completely stopped cringing at the “misuse” of that phrase, which has really helped me focus on other stuff to get irritated by. In invite you to try it.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 21, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
You can’t create runs or catch a ballgame without hands & feet.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
If torsos were banned
Garko would be the most banned player in baseball. That man has no legs!
ORLY?
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Aug 20, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I have never heard this until you said it
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 20, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn’t there some contract thing with Posey too? If he gets called up before a certain date next summer, something…something…time clock…something…arbitration…something?
I believe that it’s May 1 or thereabouts; if he is called up before then he becomes a “super 2” and would be eligible for arbitration one year sooner. I didn’t think September callups counted on that, but I could easily be mistaken.
Ah, here it is. No mention of excluding September service. So bringing him up in September would force a move to put him on the 40 man (I’m pretty sure he’s not on there, right?) and would start his arb clock. If I’m doing the math right, if they do not bring him up this season at all, but do bring him up next season before about May 25, and he stays in the majors continuously for the whole season and the next two, he would be eligible for arbitration if he’s in the top 17% of players with that amount of service time.
Somebody should correct me if I’m wrong.
haha. i knew that was too easy.
not streaking… her prediction like a month ago that cain and lincecum would never get their 13th win.
No one here gets out alive.
I didn't mean it, honest! :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
jporny certainly has her issues.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Aug 20, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Right after I get a chance to see.
Plotting the ultimate demise of Gore51 (never met him, I dunno he could be swell) so as to adopt Kyle Nicholson.
by Whiteteaandpoptarts on Aug 21, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I still think, at the time, the signing was pretty defend-able — and still is to an extent. I really hope his problems at the plate are injured related and not career-winding-down related.
is he really 34? that is my question. if the dude is like 39 then we have problems.
No one here gets out alive.
LOL OLD
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Aug 21, 2009 6:19 AM PDT up reply actions
People think cuz he’s a Latin player his age is fake. But to my knowledge all the age scandals have come out of the DR, and of course Edgar is from Colombia.
To be fair
If Renteria weren’t Latin, people would just say he did steroids.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
latin- lied about age
black- did steroids
white- GAMER. GRITTY. PLAYS THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 20, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
No it isn’t
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
hang on
I didn’t mean to suggest that the players actually fit these stereotypes, only that these stereotypes exist and are perpetuated by simple-minded commentators. sorry for not being more clear.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
No, I’m not accusing you. I just don’t think these stereotypes really exist. You’d have to ignore all the white/latino players who have used steroids, for one thing. I don’t hear the age accusation that often (unless it turns out to be true), and white guys like Rowand are called “gamers” because they really don’t bring much else to the table (how else are you going to market Aaron Rowand and Rich Aurilia?). Plus, I recently heard Garrett Anderson referred to as a gamer on sportscenter.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions
In this very thread, someone made an allegation that Edgar faked his age even though no Columbian player has ever had any age verification issues previously.
Why do you think that happened?
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Rowand and Garko do as well!
I WANT TO SEE THEIR BIRTH CERTIFICATES!
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2009 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Miller still throwing 102
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 21, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think anyone was seriously wondering about Renteria’s age… Just a comment to emphasize how awful he’s been playing. Kinda like when I play pickup basketball, and when I miss a shot or something, someone jokes that it’s because I’m white. I guess if I was really determined to, I could get offended.
Nobody is pointing a finger in Renteria’s face and demanding a birth certificate.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Bingo
the point is that it’s a “jokey” stereotype now to question any latin player’s age. I’ve seen it done a lot, and whether it’s done seriously or not, the stereotype exists.
And yeah, whenever I’m playing BB and try a crossover that fails I say I’m too white to try that move.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 21, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
They absolutely exist to a certain degree
the white players who did steroids are seriously glossed over compared to black and latin players who did them. And you very VERY rarely hear a black player referred to as “scrappy” or “feisty” or “gamery” or any of that nonsense. Those are code words for “white”
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I don't agree
David Ortiz was talked about for about a week and then forgotten. McGwire, on the other hand, is one of the game’s villains. If players are glossed over, it has nothing to do with their skin color.
I hear terms like “scrappy” used when they are appropriate (unless some one like John Kruk is saying it). It seems like people are looking for stereotypes, so they only hear these words when they’re attached to a white player, but ignore them when attached to a black or latino player… Any player that is generally smaller and unable to get by purely on talent is pretty much scrappy, regardless of skin color. Do you really think the Giants marketers are boasting about the fact that there are lots of white guys on the team when they use the term “gamer”? Does Krukow prefer white players? If a player is scrappy, then he’s scrappy, regardless of his skin color.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
isn’t velez considered “scrappy”?
I R 5
by say hey nation on Aug 21, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I meant to include that in there somewhere
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
drop the “s”
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Well
I AM talking about people like John Kruk because, like it or not, a LOT of people get their opinions on baseball from idiots like that. Most of the mainstream baseball media outlets you read/watch use “plays the right way” and “scrappy” and crap like that when talking about guys like Eckstein and Willits and Erstad. I admit I haven’t been paying much attention lately, so maybe it’s changed some nowadays, but I’m not sure it has.
I agree with your sentiments, I feel the same way you do, but a lot of writers don’t
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 21, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t hear the age accusation that often (unless it turns out to be true)
I hear it all the time about Pujols, among many others.
In Renteria’s case, he apparently faked a birth certificate to make himself OLDER, because he wasn’t old enough to sign at the time.
I think you just need new baseball friends, because I’ve never heard the Pujols accusation. The only times I can remember age being an issue is when someone comes forth with some sort of evidence
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Really? I remember hearing the Pujols is old theory all over the place a few years ago when all the other players were being identified.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 21, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep. Selective memory is a powerful thing.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Poor guy had a receding hairline at age 23.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 21, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
You must know me better than I know myself!
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of Black/white
Have any of you seen Clete Thomas!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Aug 21, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I hear the age accusations ALL the time for players who may have never been to the DR in their lives – Edgar, Pablo and on and on.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I guess we talk to different people then, because I’ve never heard any of that.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Cold and calculating and very good at executing the fundamentals.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
you mean
“inscrutable”
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Aug 21, 2009 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions
thank you, Joe Morgan
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
he's either 39 or never works out
cause his belly is bigger than his chest or his butt.
Wir müssen wissen — wir werden wissen!
by seesdifferent on Aug 21, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
It was a good signing at the time. You couldn’t go into the season with an all rookie infield. You just can’t do it.
Ishikawa
Frandsen
Burriss
Sandoval
That would have been all kinds of uncertain (and bad most likely). We needed one veteran in that infield, and Edgar Renteria was pegged as a guy that can lead.
As it turns out, we would have been better going with Uribe as that guy. Hindsight is 20/20 though.
Also Orlando Cabrera and Rafael Furcal were the other two choices. Both cost Tommy Joseph, and neither are worldbangers this season either.
The idea was good, the result isn’t. It’s really too bad that the Giants cannot simply bench Renteria or DL him for the rest of the year to rectify that problem. They have to get “value” on their dollars. That is the one concept I will never understand.
Serious question: why do you “need” a veteran on the infield?
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
so when the errors pile up and the circus music starts they don’t point at management and say, “hey thats’ what you get with too young of an infield.”
No one here gets out alive.
It’s this “better to fail with veterans than with youngsters in order to save face” mentality that has jacked this club around for years now.
BINGO
IT IS BETTER TO FAIL WITH ROOKIES BECAUSE YOU’RE NOT PAYING THEM 9 FUCKING MILLION DOLLARS TO FAIL
/rant
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Really, the Renteria signing as “the least bad option” (which is how a lot of people on this site described it in the offseason) is the ultimate indictment of Sabean and the FO for not developing a legitimate SS in the farm system, or having a plausible Plan B to kick in when if they failed to develop a SS.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
I think the idea was Renteria is a “known quantity”, because if they started Burriss at SS, there would have been no fallback position if he faltered.
As it turned out, he did falter. At a different position. And the Giants had to trade for Freddy Sanchez because apparently Frandsen slept with Bochy’s wife or something
Honestly, in hindsight they probably would have been better off giving Vizquel another year than signing any of the FA SS available.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 20, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup, at the time you would be right. But looking back now, I’d rather have Vizquel here than Rent and I bet I’m not alone.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 20, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
i jokingly proposed this like 3 months ago and was crucified because apparently its obvious that vizquel would could not have lasted as the every day SS.
No one here gets out alive.
Maybe he couldn’t have, but neither can Renteria, clearly.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 20, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Evan is with you.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
What about “Plan Bocock”.
By the way, can we get some Bocock jokes here for old times sake. I mean Bocock really sucked long and hard, but at least he was good for a few laughs.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not even funny anymore.
That’s how bad it is.
I mostly just feel sorry for him now.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Aug 20, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
My “Plan Bocock” was in response to Kitspool saying this:
having a plausible Plan B to kick in when if they failed to develop a SS
Plan B = Plan Bocock
Really I was just attempting to not-quite-hijack-but-take-a-detour headlong into Bocock. Renteria is just depressing and I miss Bocock jokes so hard that I get excited thinking about it.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Really, the Renteria signing as "the least bad option" (which is how a lot of people on this site described it in the offseason) is the ultimate indictment of Sabean and the FO for not developing a legitimate SS in the farm system, or having a plausible Plan B to kick in when if they failed to develop a SS.
I thought the Bocock-Ochoa ammount of play time in ’08 already established the failure.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
slightly off topic...
Out of last winter’s options I am of the opinion the " Cream" is Ceasar Iztuirs with 291 wOBA & 10.4 UZR/150 for $2.4MM this year ( $2.6MM next). Hindsight is 20-20 though and kind of sums things up that he is at the top of the heap.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
if izturis is the cream, who’s the clear?
by sliderinthedirt on Aug 20, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions
As bad as Renteria has been
Man, I can’t believe we were that close to having Burriss start for the entire year.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
YOU WERE WRONG!!!
Oh, wait, you didn’t really say that did you…
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
UPDATE
Joe Mauer has yet to homer today.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Favre’s opinion on this coming up right after an update from Eagles camp
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Aug 20, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
RBIs AND BA w/ RISP!
BUNCH OF PANSIES!
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 20, 2009 5:47 PM PDT reply actions
God I hate the Nationals
And 9:30 AM Games
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Nats are a fucking joke
down 2 after these piece of shits get swept…uh
And yet they hit better than the Giants.
If the teams had traded lineups before the deadline, the Giants could have been in 1st place by now.
I'm hoping Renterecka
will be like this years version of Edgardo Alfonso. He sucked all year (and every year) with the Giants in ’03, but kicked ass like the clutch player he once was during the playoffs that year. I keep hoping that Renterecka can do that for this years team in the playoffs.
by crazedcrustacean on Aug 20, 2009 6:39 PM PDT reply actions
OT: WHOAH
Jon Heyman just posted this on his twitter
the #giants were the team that claimed sheffield before #mets pulled him back. too bad they cant have a do-over
I guess Sabean isn’t done yet…
With malice towards the Dodgers
I guess his D wouldn’t be worse than what Barry provided us in LF towards the end of his career…thats not saying much though.
With malice towards the Dodgers
This from Joel Sherman’s Twitter:
“still don’t understand y Mets didn’t take Grade-C prospect back RT @SI_JonHeyman giants were team that claimed sheff b4 mets pulled back.”
weird. I guess if the Mets did release him earlier they’d really be showing their fans its over for the year (if they haven’t done that already. Haven’t been following that shitstorm of a team at all)
With malice towards the Dodgers
Sheffield would be the 2nd best hitter on the team.
Uh, defensive liability though… he played 9 games at 1B for the Yanks in 06… and wasn’t … uh … “legendarily” bad?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
-8.7 UZR/150!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is from a decent sample size too (57 innings!!!!!!!!)
I R 5
by say hey nation on Aug 21, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
/ groans
Need more bee. Now.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
BRIAN SABEAN KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING!!!
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 20, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
WTF?
Gary Sheffield went from on his best behavior to, well, being Gary Sheffield. That means the five-month honeymoon is over replaced by Sheffield’s familiar demands for more money combined with less professionalism. So even one of the Mets’ few feel-good stories this year — Sheffield proving to be a mature, useful player — has now exploded on them.
The Mets rejected his bizarre request for a contract extension. So Sheffield, according to sources, initially became verbally abusive, then demanded he be released or traded to the Marlins, then threatened to return home to Florida, and finally just pulled himself from the starting lineup. He struck out as a pinch-hitter in the eighth inning and then ignored reporters’ interview attempts after the game.
Careful. We might sign him once he’s released.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
...he's actually been a Dodger fan this entire time.
If only there were meddling kids and a talking dog to expose him.
Wasn’t the rationale for defending the Renteria signing that he won’t still be here for the next contending Giants team? Funny how that works.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
We all know what this post means, and I can't wait to see it this weekend
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Aug 20, 2009 7:05 PM PDT reply actions
I wish Edgar Renteria was better at baseball.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
fewer care
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Is Frandsen a dick?
He seems like a faux rah rah “hustler” who wore his four sport lettersman jacket everyday.
And when a dick in the non BB category, the tie may go against you.
by 17ReasonsWhy on Aug 20, 2009 7:16 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
He made an awesome self-deprecating comment about his performance this season in an episode of Life of Brian which I respected. Also, I’ve seen him interact with fans and seems like a realy good guy. Small sample size, though. Also, I’m biased because I totally have the hots for him.
by kdl on Aug 20, 2009 7:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If it hits Dick Pole,
it makes it desperate.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 21, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
fowl
He likes chicken.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Even if they don’t it isn’t the end of the world. Getting swept would be.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 20, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
You take your realism and peddle it somewhere else, mister.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 20, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
That is too funny. The unknown girl from Destiny’s Child sang last night’s God Bless America
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Aug 20, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Epic dodgers first pitch fail
"I think I was the best baseball player I ever saw." - Willie Mays
Tommy Lasorda is the Antichrist
by tommylasordaistheantichrist on Aug 20, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m sure she has plenty of ball experience.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 20, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
At one point she was.
VOTE SANDOVAL
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Aug 21, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
cannot leave desk without book
I R 5
by say hey nation on Aug 21, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
holy lord
I knew she was beautiful, but dayyyyyym. They don’t make the starlets like the used to. That pic on the left is :0
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 21, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
There are exactly 100 pages of Audrey Hepburn on Photobucket.
No two are the same , all are positively mesmerizing.
I only made it to 43 , there was something in my eye.
I could spend the day there.
“PLEASE stop looking at me , OK? But please start again after that.”
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Aug 21, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Looks like she is fondling a invisible giant
I R 5
by say hey nation on Aug 21, 2009 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Kevin Frandsen?
Your welcome for that
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
How can you be THAT un coordinated?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
LOL
I will be shamelessly stealing that.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 21, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
So - if Edgar took a bunch of balls at 3rd and 2nd he could fill Uribe's roll next year.
If Bochy/Sabaen have the balls to do that and realize he is sunk cost – who could we target next year to be our opening day SS. I’m thinking someone who could leadoff for us too.
Rosterbation Alert 2010
(???) SS
F Sanchez 2B
Schierholtz RF
Sandoval 3B
Garko/Ishi 1B
Rowand CF
Bowker RF
Molina/FA C
Get the right guy and we might actually have a league average offense
While we're rosterbating
The Mets apparently are sick of Reyes. Can’t stay healthy, blah blah blah. He can be had for the right package of prospects, and not necessarily top of the line prospects. Sez Truth and Rumors
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Aug 20, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
i'd most definitely take a flyer on Reyes
as long as he comes cheap.
don’t really see that happening tho.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
because truth and rumors about what players cost has rung true for the Giants so far this year
/still a little bitter
Kevin Pucetas lurks in the shadows, waiting for his time to shine.
by Sammy Danger on Aug 21, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't stand Jose Reyes
He always seems to have a devil-may-care attitude, which is incredibly frustrating to watch on the field (especially when your team has a penchant for collapsing)
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
He also
seems to have a “really good at playing baseball” attitude too.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I like the player. Just leave the celebratory dances back in NY. Especially the urge to do them after hitting singles.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe he's been humbled recently
either way, IDRGAF about stuff like that. As long as he gets on base and STEALZZ
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
he played an average of 158 game/year from 2004-2008
until he hurt his hammie.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
unfortunatly
“the right guy” is Hanley Ramierez
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I love that idea!!! I think we need to buy low and target someone with a trade.
According to Cot’s this is next years free agent class
Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera OAK
Bobby Crosby OAK
Adam Everett DET
Alex Gonzalez * CIN
Khalil Greene STL
John McDonald TOR
Marco Scutaro TOR
Miguel Tejada HOU
Jack Wilson * PIT
- team holds an option
I like Adam Everett
I like short stops that can play defense
I like shortstops that are above replacement level & i’m not convinced that Adam Everett is any better than that. He’s always been an awful hitter but as injuries and age have taken their toll, Everett’s not going to put up the great defensive that he needs to have any value.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Have you looked at Everett’s UZR numbers lately? 2.8 UZR/150 from a guy playing the most innings he has logged in 3 seasons after sever injury worries is not what I find encouraging . When this drop in effective range is packaged in 33 year old middle infielder with a 272 wOBA and 288OBP I am not sure if I would take a flyer on him for league minimum.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
The SS market this year was always going to be poor & that’s one of the reasons i didn’t mind the Renteria signing as much. I don’t think there’s much available on the trade market either apart from the possibility of Hardy being available (although given the poor market he’ll be very expensive to trade for)
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
But we're all kidding ourselves
Rent’s hurt. He’s going to have off-season elbow surgery. The narrative next spring will be how much better he’s feeling and playing, and he’ll be our opening day shortstop.
And if Baggs can be trusted, Bengie Molina will be our opening day catcher. Which also means cleanup hitter
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
Buster 2-3 with a bb again tonight
really wish he’d be the opening day starter. Doesn’t look like it thought unless something drastic changes
With malice towards the Dodgers
we can’t have our cake and eat it too
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
If Bengie is on this team next year, I am setting Sabean’s eyebrows on fire.
There is no way that Bochy doesn’t give the majority of starts to Bengie as long as he is on the roster. The only way to make him play the guys you want to see on a regular basis is to not give him any other option.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
See; Castilla, Vinny
also, he will absolutely bat cleanup if he’s here.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I think Posey will be a May callup next year
The Giants need a stopgap until then. It appears to me that Bengie has a sense of entitlement that probably wouldn’t be there with someone like Whiteside or someone brought in from outside the organization.
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't imagine he isn't ready right now
he’s hit at every level he’s been at. There might be an adjustment period, but I bet he could handle it. He seems to be a natural hitter.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
The concern coming from the organization, via Baggs (who I assume has some sources), seems to be the intangible “ability to handle the pitching staff.” I don’t really believe in that stuff, but it appears that the team does.
But yeah, I’m pretty sure his bat will play.
God that stuff is such a load of shit
Pablo played catcher immediately last year and it made no difference. Whiteside had never caught this staff before and he “called” a no-hitter. If that’s really the reason they think he’s not ready then they’re even stupider than I give them credit for.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 21, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Experience is intangible
Didn’t Pablo have 150 – 200 games catching in professional ball before doing it at the MLB level, (which is about what I’d want Posey to have)?
Whiteside had extensive professional experience at the position.
The bat is probably ready, bit it’s not good to learn the catcher position at the Major League level.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 21, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
That's a better argument
than “he can’t handle the pitching staff”
But it seems to me that if you can play catcher, you can play catcher. I know you need SOME experience, but IDK, at a certain point it seems to me that the guy is really good and should be making meaningful contributions.
PLAY HIM A SS!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 21, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Pablo had 175 games at C. Posey already has 111, so he’ll probably have something like 140 by May, plus college experience which Pablo didn’t have. It’s not really a big difference. And Posey is already considered way better defensively than Pablo ever was.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Yes, May sounds about right.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 22, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions
There might be an adjustment period
So pretty much he’ll be benched after a week
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Fuck this team
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Yes
But more importantly, was the bo worth it?
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 20, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe they just wave some money in your face.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 20, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
It always feels like
Somebody’s watching me.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 20, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
They should make an ad where
some broad gets turned on by the money and starts… oh wait, they did. I’m surprised it doesn’t end with “I’ll have what she’s having”.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Aug 21, 2009 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Gotta post that on Failblog
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Aug 21, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions
what
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/08/red-sox-release-chris-duncan.html
With malice towards the Dodgers
I guess there is no life after nepotism.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Not so fast there-- nepotism is pretty strong, especially in sports
Let’s see if he lands a coaching gig somewhere in the Cardinals minors somewhere. Nepotism is pretty strong.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Strong nepotism is strong.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 21, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, 28 years old. OBP .100 points higher than his BA. K’s a bunch and his SLG is in a nosedive.
Meh
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 20, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Basically. Except Duncan can play 1B
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 20, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate how we have to rely on us to catch the dodgers cause every other team is fucking useless
With malice towards the Dodgers
To be fair, we’ve been pretty useless against the Rockies and Dodgers lately
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Aug 21, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
We have a series coming up against them in September. A four-gamer.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s the Giants Way.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 20, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I got free dinner thanks to him.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate the Nationals. I hate the Cubs.
It Is Their Ignorance That Keeps Them From Recognizing The Truth
I hate everyone
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought this was the start of a parody of "The Java Jive," but then you went nowhere with it.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 20, 2009 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Dear Brian Sabean
Please get us JJ Hardy without getting fleeced. Figure out the Rent situation later.
Thanks.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I’m still hoping we steal Pena from the Rays.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Pretty unlikely that Sabean targets a sub .220 hitter.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
JUST LET ME HAVE THIS DREAM
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
but then we'd have like 25 1B
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Not if we DFA’d one of them. Pena reportedly has good defense, so who needs Travis at that point?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Meh I spose
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 21, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Pretty unlikely Sabes steals anything from the Rays.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Longoria?
Yes plz
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
But yeah, trading for Hardy would be awesome. I’m genuinely interested in whether or not Sabean understands the concept of BABIP regressions, though. I’d like to think that he does, but it’s pretty easy to see him thinking about the Nick Swisher trade or the Mark Ellis signing and wonder how the hell did the Yankees or A’s know.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
I think he does have an idea about them (although how much of a believer he is i don’t know) and actually mentioned something about an expected statistical regression when we signed Renteria (although that’s not necessarily simply BABIP)
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I remember something about statistics, but I think that was about Renteria’s strong second half. I could be wrong, though.
But, man, it would have been cool if we had signed Ellis this offseason. He’s identical to Sanchez, costs less, and we’d have him for the whole year. Plus we’d get to keep Alderson. Stupid Billy Beane.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
He did say something about his strong second half but i’m sure he said that they’d looked at his stats and they suggested a regression.
I’m not sure why it’d have been that good to sign Ellis in the offseason as he hasn’t been very good this year due to mixed performance and missed time. Of course i’d have been ok with it at the time but we obviously never had the option as he didn’t reach free agency.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Ellis has been every bit as good as Sanchez.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
I’m not sure how you work that out given that Ellis has been worth 0.9 wins and Sanchez has been worth 2.4 wins this year.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I'm starting to hate WAR
UZR is not meant to be used in these kind of sample sizes. Ellis has posted fantastic UZR’s over the past 4 years. This is year, in 550 innings, it’s suddenly down to average. That’s much more likely to be a fluke than an actual sign of decline. I think we can agree that Ellis and Sanchez are similar defensively, since they are both considered above average – both by scouts and by stats.
Neither one is an exceptional runner or anything, so that just leaves us with hitting. Sanchez and Ellis have posted pretty similar lines this year. Yes, Sanchez’s line is a bit better, but Ellis plays in a much tougher park, and in the league with the slightly better pitching (two things WAR doesn’t adjust for), so it’s a pretty close call on who has been hitting better.
Similar offense + similar defense + similar baserunnig = similar production.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
You’re right that it’s too small a sample size for the defense, although you can’t discount the possibly that his defense hasn’t been as good this year (not having seen much of him i wouldn’t know).
But even if you discount the defensive numbers Sanchez has been the better player this year. If you take them as being similar defensively then that gives Ellis an 0.5 WAR on defense which still means Sanchez has been 1 WAR better.
The reason for this, and something you’re not including, is that Sanchez has played more often and so has been of more value to his teams than Ellis.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
You're right
I didn’t think about playing time. But still, when you include park factors and league adjustments, the difference is very small.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
I think Sabean IS aware
of buying low on a guy… but I am not sure he like Hardy.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
The Brewers see your Edgar Renteria complaints
And raise you one Jason Kendall.
Kendall’s OPS is actually almost 30 points lower than Renteria’s, and the Brewers have actually used him in the leadoff spot this season.
"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."
MOLINIA FOR HARDY!! MAKE IT HAPPEN SABS!!!
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
lol
man I would love that
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I wouldn’t love watching Eli play daily
I R 5
by say hey nation on Aug 21, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Panda to C, Uribe to 3rd
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
You get GARRR AND Molina out of the cleanup spot
that instantly makes the team like 30% better
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Dems STATS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
GINATS BAPS!
http://www.artisanbreadbaking.com/breads/bap/baps.htm
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
Eddie is one of the Top 5 shortstops in baseball history.
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Aug 21, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions
We need at least a split this in this series
"It is amazing how much can be accomplished if no one cares who gets the credit." - Coach John Wooden
Late to the party
But the Giants claimed Sheff on waivers and the Mets kept him and now he’s throwing a Manny-style tanturm and wants to be traded lol
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Aug 21, 2009 11:06 AM PDT reply actions
That guy is a dildo
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Aug 21, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
You mean a recognizable simulation of something familiar? Yeah, true.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 21, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
He's a savant
NAILED em. He’s awesome.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Aug 21, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I keep coming back to this page because I think it’s called “Let’s talk about Edgar Rentaria” and I reaaaaally want to drop a “Let’s talk about you and me-a”.
But alas, all you get is a silly anecdote and have to live without the unadulterated hilarity.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
Y'know, I was against signing Edgar...
In my book that kinda dough shouldn’t be given a non-pitcher who can’t average at least one home run per week or steal one base in a series.
Why? Those cats are STARS — impact players. They move merchandise. They pay for themselves.
Edgar was never either kind of player. That’s not to detract from his accomplishments over the course of his career (5 AS, 2 GG, 3 SS), but he’s been a complementary player his entire career (1100+ R, 400+ 2b, 2100+ H not withstanding).
Also, once crunch time rolled around (vs LA 8/10), Edgar began to hit and is .423 in his last 7 starts.
RENT!!!!
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
Grant
Edgar just gave you the middle finger right now.
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
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