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The defacto juxtaposition of Pedro Feliz and Aaron Rowand: Was it a good thing for the giants?



We all know that the giants did try to re-sign Pedro Feliz 2 years ago, but he thought we low-balled him with dollars and years, so he misjudged the market and signed with the Phillies for less money, and the same number of years. In the meantime the Giants went ahead and signed the tough-nosed centerfielder from the Phillies, coming off of a career year, to a multiple year megabuck contract. 

Star-divide

If you are bored by the subject or just don't care, move on to another fanpost.  But if you have thought about this just a little, read on.   We all have memories of Pedro swinging at a balls in the dirt, not taking a walk, and making a key out to kill a rally.  But we also can remember some key hits he had.  He was a decent cog in the wheel of a good team, not a star, but a very good thirdbaseman, who could hit a little, and like most giants not named Bonds, or Snow, did not know how to take a walk.  On the other hand, the tough nosed Aaron Rowand was a free agent, also a good fielder, but in centerfield, was coming off of a career year in a hitters Park.  Rowand is a little more than 2 years younger than Feliz,  and the giants awarded him a long term contract averaging more than twice the amount per year than Feliz was getting.  Of course the giants seem to have a plethora of outfielders, but surprisingly not too many righties.   We were left without a thirdbaseman, and went to a disaster situation at third in 2008, only to be salvaged in 2009 by the young and versatile Pablo Sandoval.  If Sandoval was not playing third, he could have been a firstbaseman or catcher for the giants.   By the way Feliz picked up a World Series ring in his first season away from the giants.

Lets look at their career stats averages based on 162 game years,  and this years stats for comparison.

Years based on 162 games   G.      AB        R      H     2B    3B     HR   RBI    BB    SO    SB    CS    AVG  OBP   SLG  OPS

Feliz  6.89 years                      162   532       63   136  27      3        19     77     30    87       2       1     255    294    426    720

Rowand 6.81 years                162   525      77    148  34      2        17     68     33   106     9        4     282    341    451    792

 

In some ways the stats were similar.  Ballpark effects considered, but Rowand was younger, faster, and carried a 25 point higher SLG,  27 point higher avg. ,  47 point higher OBP., and 72 point higher OPS.  On paper these later 3 stats plus the younger age of Rowand would make him seem a bit more valuable, but by how much?  But since the free agency swap the numbers may not be as favorable for the giants as  promised.  The six foot 219 pound Rowand made 9.6 million in 2008 and the same in 2009.  The six foot, 1 inch. 209 pound Feliz makes 5.0 million in 2009,  in 2008 he only made 3.0 million, hence 2 years of Feliz production has cost less than 1 year of Rowand production. Hence there as been  an 11.2 million dollar differential over 2008 and 2009.  This is 11.2 million that could have gone into investing in other players.  Lets look at this years stats, and do note that Pedro is taking a higher percentage of walks.  Two other things to think about are Feliz can be an emergency catcher,  and when Rowand is in the batters box, he looks as if he is trying to take a dump.  Ok, stop digressing.

2009 stats       G    AB     R    H    2B    3B  HR   RBI    BB   SO    SB   CS   AVG    OBP   SLG    OPS

Rowand        102  361  48  98    28     2      9     45       22   88     4       1     271    327     435     762

Feliz               110  402  47 116  20     1      9     59       27   46     0       0     289     333     410     743

 

So there you have it.  Feliz now is a minor hitting cog in the big Red Philly hitting machine. While Rowand is supposedly a key hitter in the giants lineup.  Somehow this year he has caught Felizitis, by swinging at outside pitches in the dirt, when he is not swinging at first pitches and hitting into DP's.   Rowand's numbers would be fine if he just was a minor cog in the giants lineup, and playing good Centerfield defense.  But he is being payed wages for a player expected to provide more production.  The Phillies have gotten Feliz to be more patient at the plate, hit for a higher average and take more walks, but he seems to have sacrificed some power in doing so.  The players are somwhat similar hitters now, but their replacement value on the team by position has had a weird impact.  Rowand may be holding younger players from coming up, who may indeed be just as good as Rowand at a much cheaper price.   On the other hand,  we had to change the position of one of our young players in order to cover third base.  Was the inadvertant swap worth it?

Poll
Was the inadvertant swap of Feliz for Rowand worth it?
I am happy having Rowand instead of Feliz even though the cost in dollars is somewhat steep
23 votes
I am happy with Rowand instead of Feliz and the money differential does not effect my opinion
4 votes
I don't really care, the two players are similar, and neither one alone can take the giants to the promised land
16 votes
This was another impulsive move by Sabean and he should have kept Feliz
10 votes
I would be happier with Feliz instead of Rowand as they are similar hitters and the price differential could have landed the giants another good player
26 votes
I would have preferred to keep Feliz the money has nothing to do with it.
6 votes
I don't see why we could not of signed both
4 votes
I am glad to have gotten rid of Feliz, and I wish we did not sign Rowand
63 votes

152 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

Comment 31 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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I don’t think signing Rowand prevented us from keeping Feliz. He got his feelings hurt and wanted to leave, or we just didn’t try too hard to keep him.

In any event, Rowand is overpaid, as we all know. The question is, will the Giants face facts as his bloated paychecks continue, or will Rowand remain a lineup fixture because of his veteran-gamerness and high salary? I’m ok with Rowand for right now, but in 2011 things could be getting ugly and the Giants may have to think about eating the latter portion of that contract. My fear is that he will continue to get 550 at-bats each year until the bitter end.

by I'm_a_Man on Aug 14, 2009 12:10 AM PDT reply actions  

+1

Extreamly well said. I would just like to add it seems to a considerible ammount of time he is allowed to play hurt, thus at a reduced effectiveness. Rrroow Roww Shaggy.

That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.

by daveinexile on Aug 14, 2009 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure how you can look at their batting stats and say that they’re somewhat similar, an OPS of 792 is considerably better than 720, and given that OPS undervalues OBP the difference is probably larger.

Personally i was glad we let Feliz leave (and we got a supplemental pick as well) although he was probably an underrated player due to his ugly offense. One issue with Feliz is that he gains all his value from his glove and as he moves into his mid thirties, it’s unlikely that he’ll keep that up. It’s interesting actually that since joining the Phillies his defence has been above average but hasn’t had the fantastic numbers he was putting up before he left.

If we look at the two players WAR (and this should help Feliz given his stellar defence) over the last 6 years then we find Feliz has a total of 12.8 whereas Rowand has a total of 22.2. So Rowand has been a much better player although not quite twice as good.

In terms of the players themselves i’m glad we swapped Rowand for Feliz as he’s a better player & it’s worked out well in so much as we haven’t got any good CF in the system and Sandoval has done great at 3B. Contract wise we obviously haven’t done well out of it and Feliz is a better value for money contract. So i’m left with chosing either the top or bottom options.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Aug 14, 2009 12:16 AM PDT reply actions  

If you want to do a comprehensive analysis of the two players, you really need to take park factors into account as well. AT&T and the Phillies home stadium are very different in terms of the way they favor hitters.

by sunnyd100 on Aug 14, 2009 12:24 AM PDT reply actions  

I dunno, I think this is kind of a false comparison – I don’t think it was ever PEDRO FELIZ or AARON ROWAND.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Aug 14, 2009 12:38 AM PDT reply actions  

fwiw, regarding money

Fangraphs’ “Dollars Stat” (not sure what to call it – it converts WAR into what a player would make in free agency) has feliz at 13.2 mil with the phillies. Rowand’s at 14.9. (Rowand also leads in WAR, 3.4 to 3.2. So a slight upgrade, at a significant price.)

VOTE SANDOVAL
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Aug 14, 2009 1:19 AM PDT reply actions  

Why get Rowand when they still had Rajai Davis for start of 2008?

Another major gaffe by Sabean. He could have gone for speed team with Lewis, Wynn, and Davis, but once again choked on establishing any kind of consistent organizational strategy. Lacking Rowand, he could have gone with Schierholtz LF/RF, Wynn CF/LF/RF, Davis CF/LF, and Lewis LF.

by hokysmksbw on Aug 14, 2009 2:28 AM PDT reply actions  

GIANTS BRASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Having Rajai Davis should have had absolutely no effect on signing a good major league player!

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Aug 14, 2009 2:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do miss Davis! I’d take him over Torres any day of the weak.

by xanthan on Aug 14, 2009 5:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Davis was perfectly fine as a 5th outfielder but he shouldn’t have had any impact on our decisions with regards to signing Rowand or any other starting quality outfielders.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Aug 14, 2009 6:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Really? I can’t see a dime’s worth of difference between them.

I do think that platooning Rajai with Lewis or Schierholtz or even Dave Roberts would have been a very reasonable alternative to signing Rowand.

by Evan on Aug 14, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’d take Davis because he’s probably got a better chance to actually be healthy. Torres seems to have leg problems all the time.

by xanthan on Aug 20, 2009 5:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

The argument also has to do with Rowand's chunk of payroll.

I maintain that in what clearly was a rebuilding year, the Giants didn’t need him. He’s what Joe Morgan used to call a “complementary” player, as opposed to an “impact” player. The Giants didn’t have an impact dude to build a lineup around last year, so signing veteran complementary guys at random made no strategic sense.

by hokysmksbw on Aug 14, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

He is if you start him.

He was only 27 and had plenty of speed for either LF or CF.

by hokysmksbw on Aug 14, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

right now

he’s only on an extended hot streak with the a’s

by sfoakbay on Aug 14, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

In a rebuilding year like 2008, it wouldn't matter.

The GM should have just plugged the holes until he figured out if there were any impact players in the system and make future trades for players to complement the impact player.

by hokysmksbw on Aug 14, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Sabes saw Rowand as plugging that CF hole since he signed him for five years.

by Natto on Aug 14, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rowand would complement LFs with slow legs and RFs with bad arms. In other words, he’d complement guys who play OF for power offense, but the Giants didn’t field those types of OFs last year and they still don’t this year.

If Sabean thought Rowand was going to be the next Jim Edmonds, his flower garden needs to be raided for hemp or mushrooms or something.

by hokysmksbw on Aug 15, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

also

he cost absolutely nothing, and absolutely nothing was received when he walked.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."

There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...

by natteringnabob on Aug 15, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

wynn is unrated

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right

by Giant among Angels on Aug 14, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why worry?

Feliz will be back in a Giants uni next year, when Uribe and Aurilia leave. The we’ll have Rowand AND Feliz! Hooray!

co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.

by kennv on Aug 14, 2009 8:05 AM PDT reply actions  

They might have similar lines

But I find myself swearing at my TV a lot less when Rowand’s at bat. Is there a difference in the number of their GIDPs? Or “number of times swinging at a ball 4 feet outside the strike zone”

The fact that Rowand’s K/BB went up with the Giants definitely says something about the hitting coaches.

by SammyG on Aug 14, 2009 8:21 AM PDT reply actions  

Well the career stats show why you prefer watching Rowand as he’s overall a better hitter, their lines are closer because Feliz is having a much better year than the last 4. Also, Rowand has on the whole hit well this year (800+ OPS) but his line has plummeted recently due to his poor hitting (injury related or not) since the all star break (55 at-bats) So the timing of that hitting comparison is rather fortunate for Feliz in so much that if he’d been having a similar year to the last 4 and you’d done that comparison 55 at bats ago Rowand would have an OPS advantage of around 100 rather than 20 as it currently stands.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Aug 14, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

The problem with signing Rowand...

is that it blocked Pablo Sandoval from playing center field (his best position)!!!

by The Double Deuce on Aug 14, 2009 9:57 AM PDT reply actions  

Rowand had great years in ‘04 and ’07 (.905 and .889 OPS respectively). I’m just hoping that he has one good season along those lines once while a Giant. It was looking like this might be the year at the beginning of the season but now I’m hoping it’s a once every 3 year thing which would mean we get “GOOD” Rowand next year.

by OTTOMATIC on Aug 14, 2009 10:15 AM PDT reply actions  

Btw, “juxtaposition” is not the word you’re looking for. “Transposition,” maybe. Or simply “trade.”

by Evan on Aug 14, 2009 10:44 AM PDT reply actions  

I thank the McCoven for their responses.

I now think I have a better idea of what we all think about this situation, and the varying but fairly similar positions. Why Juxtaposition, only because I thought their careers were moving in similar if not somewhat parallel fashion, but as far as being switched from their teams, then perhaps transposed would be better, but the point of the post was to show the similarities, vs the cost. Although Rowand is marginally better, and younger, he cost more than double. Money which could have been spent on another talent. Maybe an impact player. Thanx.

by bradleybear on Aug 14, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, it’s just that we don’t see the connection between the two. Yeah, we shouldn’t have signed Rowand, and maybe we should have signed Feliz, but it’s not that we didn’t sign Feliz because we signed Rowand.

HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?

:-) :-) :-)

by Cookyman on Aug 15, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did we get Conor Gillaspie from the Comp pick for Feliz?

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.

GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!

by baetown415 on Aug 14, 2009 11:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah.

HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?

:-) :-) :-)

by Cookyman on Aug 15, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

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