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The fix, was it in?

After Tim Donaghy was caught fixing games in the NBA it has opened a whole new set of circumstances.  Just because the Black Sox Scandal happened 90 years ago, doesn't mean that it can't happen again.

I have never believed baseball games were fixed until this series.  I know a lot of you feel the same.  Usually we give the umps the benefit of the doubt because they are human.  In this case there were so many "mistakes" made in such a short period of time, ALL favoring one team, that it makes it a viable hypothesis that these games were fixed.

I only included yes/no in the poll because silly answers and ridicule are best saved for the comments section.  I just am curious what percentage of the faithful have had their faith in the fairness of the game compromised.

Poll
Do you think these games were fixed?
Yes
42 votes
No
134 votes

176 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

0 recs  |  Comment 82 comments

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dum

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 13, 2009 11:04 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Translation:

Of course it wasn’t fixed. Baseball games are never fixed. It just doesn’t ever happen. Except for when it did happen. But then it never happened again because everyone in baseball is good and holy so there is no way this could ever happen and so it is a waste of everyones time and bandwidth to make stupid polls to find out what is the general consensus. It couldn’t ever happen again, for real, I mean, really…well, maybe it could but I don’t think so.

by positiveuphemism on Aug 13, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or it could just be dumb

The game wasn’t “fixed”. Darling is just an idiot.

by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 13, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The game wasn’t "fixed". Darling is just an idiot.

I’ve also heard he prefers cake over pie.

My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!

by nvsfg on Aug 13, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's uncanny

ARE YOU INSIDE MY HEAD?>!?!?!?!?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 13, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quick. Go look in the mirror.

Look deep in your eyes…

Nope.

by positiveuphemism on Aug 13, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We do have the same name, tho.

by positiveuphemism on Aug 13, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it isn’t outside the realm of possibilities, but I’d need to see a lot more evidence than some egregiously calls to believe it was.

At worst, there’s personal animus between these particular umpires and the Giants that influenced the calls more than anything, but in all likelihood the problem is just that these umpires are not very good at their job.

Bonds stands alone.

Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 13, 2009 11:11 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

This

Unlike the NBA, where calls are more subjective, umpires would have a tough time fixing a game without it being obvious. Yesterday would be an example of being too obvious.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Aug 13, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing that gets me, as far as I can remember anyway, is that none of the controversial calls went in favor of the Giants / against the Dodgers.

If umpires suck, you figure they are going to do so consistently, for both teams… like the strike zone stuff.

by Merope on Aug 13, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Off the top of my head, Loney’s K looking yesterday was a pretty terrible call.

by InTimmyWeTrust on Aug 13, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, if it was fixed they would have been less obvious.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Aug 13, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

this

although I like to think it was fixed b/c the Giants would, in my mind, never lose to the Dodgers on their own.

Minor White > Ansel Adams

by say hey nation on Aug 13, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

what groug said

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Aug 13, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt it was fixed

I just think umpires aren’t as good at their jobs as most people think they are.

Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.

@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.

by marcello on Aug 13, 2009 11:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No, the Giants did a pretty good job of losing the first two on their own.

by Natto on Aug 13, 2009 11:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

so you are saying the Giants fixed the games?

Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!

by merkin on Aug 13, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

They did look broken to me.

by Natto on Aug 13, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"fixed" as in "neutered," yes.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 13, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think one question you’d need to ask is, why would the umpires NEED to fix this series? The Dodgers are a better offensive team, top to bottom (Sandoval excluded from this statement, of course). The Dodgers also have a much much better record than the Giants, and I can’t imagine someone would think this series needs to be fixed so the Dogs can make it. Sure, maybe it’s more or less involved than that (betting on the Rockies to make the playoffs, simply betting on the series…).

But ultimately I think it’s less complicated. Either Darling is the world’s shittiest umpire (very real possibility), or maybe he just feels that his ties to the city of San Francisco makes him think he should be harder on his hometown team so as to appear to not be playing favorites. Or he’s just a huge piece of shit. Personally I think he’s a shitty piece of shit.

I'm thinking but nothing's happening.

by JRPhillips on Aug 13, 2009 11:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

right, if anything, MLB (assuming MLB is behind the fixing) would have more to gain from teh Giants catching up to the dodgers than the dodgers breaking away.

by FPTV on Aug 13, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah, they weren’t fixed. Umpires are just incompetent.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Aug 13, 2009 11:37 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Didn’t the Black Sox throw the game themselves? It’s a lot easier to fix a game working with the players than the officiating, and a lot less obvious.

by furikawari on Aug 13, 2009 12:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

There were outside influences involved, IIRC.

by positiveuphemism on Aug 13, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gamblers bribed players. There was ONE baseball entity involved (the players).

For the umps to have been involved as you are insinuating but never quite saying, it would take the MLB front office and the umpires. And the dodgers, because it would make no sense to fix them without the beneficiary knowing about it. So that’s three separate entities that would have to know and keep it secret. It couldn’t even be kept secret when it was just the gamblers and players in 1919, let alone today.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 13, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very rational and logical argument. :)

by positiveuphemism on Aug 14, 2009 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hohn and Darling threw the games

cause they party with Dustin Ackley and had to support their coke habits.
They also enjoy molesting collies and kicking babies.

Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!

by merkin on Aug 13, 2009 12:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

sample size

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Aug 13, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

damn you, groug
that’s my shtick

Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!

by merkin on Aug 13, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who sample sizes the sample sizer?

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Aug 13, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

great minds think alike

Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!

by merkin on Aug 13, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Coast Guard?

by tyrannoman on Aug 14, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I blame the umps for fixing Giants baseball from 2005-2008 and parts of 2009.

by xanthan on Aug 13, 2009 12:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

and the meteor

that ended the 2002 series

Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!

by merkin on Aug 13, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

1955-2004

"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.

by thehavenot on Aug 13, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Complete silliness. Remove tinfoil hat.

Billy Ripken is not a fuck face

by Karlifornia on Aug 13, 2009 12:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If the umpires were fixing the game yesterday they sure did a shitty job of it

If umpires truly want to fix a game they will make it happen. The Sacramento Kings didn’t accidentally win the game that Tim Donaghy fixed in 2002.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Aug 13, 2009 12:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This fashionable headwear brought to you by Reynolds Aluminum, accept no substitutes.

In a nation where half of the south has doubts that the President of the United States was born in the United States and where a surprising percentage of people think the Apollo moon landing was faked, nothing should surprise about what people are willing to believe.

But the first responsibility of a qualified conspiracy theorist is to offer the theory of who is perpetrating it, who is involved, what the motives are, and how the perpetrators could expect to carry it off without getting caught. None of these are at all rationally theorizable about this situation. For god’s sake— is the idea that MLB itself would do this? Why? What motive? How would they execute it without getting caught? Nonsense. The umpire crew itself? The dodgers maybe? Again— why? What motive?

Come up with some plausible reason why anyone would fix this game, how it was expected to succeed, and if that really were the goal yesterday… how the hell did they fail?

When something could be explained either by conspiracy or general incompetence, incompetence is always the right answer.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 13, 2009 12:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We’ve discussed many a crazy theory at work. My two personal favorites:

Hollow Earth
Jesus was the first vampire

Those are good times right there.

I'm thinking but nothing's happening.

by JRPhillips on Aug 13, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

responsibility?

Who’s assigning it, you?

There is a conspiracy theory that a guy in Asia had teams of agents spend years mostly killing time and they took over airplanes, blah, blah, blah. Do you buy that one?

Why do you assume that the idea was that MLB would do it? Why wouldn’t the motive be the same as endless conspiracies that have been proven, money? What was the money line? How would the conspirators be caught? The NBA ref was a raving idiot.

When presented with a false choice, the answer is always neither.

by JetSam on Aug 13, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For god’s sake— is the idea that MLB itself would do this? Why?

-First off, for any of this to make any sense whatsoever, you need to know that Casey Blake is Bud Selig’s secret son. Selig had an affair many years ago with Casey Blake’s mother, Esmeralda Blake. In order to keep his wife from finding out, Esmeralda forced him to not only pay her monthly hush money, but also to promise her something: That if Bud were ever to become commissioner of Major League Baseball, he would not only guarantee that Casey Blake would become a Major League Baseball player, but that his team would win at least 2 out of 3 games against the San Francisco Giants on the dates of August 11th through August 13th.

Also, if you rearrange the letters in "Bud Selig’s secret son Casey Blake

How would they execute it without getting caught?

They would have to have someone on the inside to throw these games. They needed someone with the ability to distract the fans, the players, and the most cagey of all: Bruce Bochy. When it comes to distraction, the most arresting, surefire way to grab someones attention is with high-pitched noises. That points to one place: The Jr. Giants Announcers. They are double-agents that were all sired in Bud Selig’s extra-marital affairs. Each time the Jr. Giants announcer says “NOW BATTING!”, the umpires microchips are tripped, and they are hypnotized into making egregious calls in favor of whatever team Casey Blake is on. When the Jr. Giants announcers squeals “YOU GEEEEENIO VELLLLEEEZZZZZZ”, everyone in the crowd covers their ears, allowing Blake to give the verbal signal to Papa Bud that everything is going according to plan.

Billy Ripken is not a fuck face

by Karlifornia on Aug 13, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the anagram of “Bud Selig Casey Blake” is “A Backless Edible Guy”

so that helps explain things, as well.

Billy Ripken is not a fuck face

by Karlifornia on Aug 13, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It all makes sense now!

No wait…sorry, still gibberish.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Aug 13, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You, Sir, are a genius.

To go further might put you in danger, so suffice it to say————————

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 13, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

slightly OT

There’s also a long sad list of actual conspiracies perpetrated by evil government fucks.

Once you’ve gone over the list, it’s hard to believe there’s anything the powerful wouldn’t do for more power.

I’m not sayin I’m a conspiracy theorist, I’m just sayin I don’t drink good-government coolaid.

A

"I would've been here sooner but I had to shake the Veleasels"

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 13, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh for C.O.L. (cryin' out loud)

Yes, of course, obviously, indisputably, absolutely, unquestionably, factually, really, and truly, conspiracies have occurred— both in and out of government, large and small, successful and unsuccessful. There is nobody on here who has suggested that conspiracies do not exist.

They do have one thing in common though: they make a certain amount of sense, i.e., they have a motive that would actually be achieved through the conspiracy (unlike attempting to rig the participants in the World Series in AUGUST, and selecting a tool that still probably puts the same 2 teams in the playoffs anyway, so it doesn’t help); they have a plausible route to succeeding in the goal and in escaping undetected (a rather crucial element for a major sports league, I trust you agree).

Conspiracy theories are, in themselves, neither good nor bad. But the burden is on the proponent of any idea to lay out some rational way that the proposition makes any sense. To just point at the end result of 2 lousy calls in one game and 4 lousy calls in a game two days later, and say “it might be fixed” is totally without rationality or intelligence. Yes, it MIGHT be fixed, and the moon MIGHT collide with the earth tonight — merely asserting that something might happen is not meaningful or valid.

I don’t require proof, either, as sometimes it’s too soon to have any proof. Fine. Those alleging the possibility of a fix still should lay out the theory of what we aren’t seeing— who is motivated to go along with it, implement it, risk prison for it, and so on and on. Nobody on here has done that yet despite a few requests to do so.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 13, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED

therefore it MUST HAVE HAPPENED

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 13, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's unlikely to happen

therefore it CAN’T HAVE HAPPENED

what’s the difference?

"I would've been here sooner but I had to shake the Veleasels"

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 13, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

If you stick to the first one, you’ll be wrong most of the time, and if you stick to the second one, you’ll be right most of the time. Pretty big difference.

Also, no one said that it couldn’t have happened. The point is that if you have a theory – any theory, not just a conspiracy theories – then it’s up to you to convince people that it’s true, or that it at least makes sense. “You can’t prove that it didn’t happen” is not an argument.

HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?

:-) :-) :-)

by Cookyman on Aug 13, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yesterday's officiating aside

First: I don’t agree that those who would attempt to perpetrate “conspiracies” would only perpetrate conspiracies that “make sense.” There are plenty of stupid criminals and stupid conspirators.

Second: if dudes are gambling on the outcome of individual at bats or individual plays, how hard could it be to bribe a player to tank a play (uribe) or for an ump or pitcher to guarantee that a player reaches base? only two people need to know…. the briber and the bribee. easy. it just requires a ton of money. and influence.

"I would've been here sooner but I had to shake the Veleasels"

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 13, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you want to talk about bad officiating, did anybody see the U.S. Soccer game yesterday? That made the officiating in the Dodgers series look stellar. I switched over for the end of the Giants game after watching the soccer game, so it was an afternoon full of awful refs for me.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Aug 13, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

FIX!!!!!

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 13, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or

It could be that, regardless of officiating, the US team has as good a chance of winning in Mexico City as a #16 seed has of winning its first-round game during March Madness.

"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."

by Kitspool on Aug 13, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t see why it has to be one or the other? The officiating certainly didn’t certainly cost them the game, but it was atrocious nonetheless.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Aug 13, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll back you up a little Pos...

While I don’t believe the games were fixed, I will say that this is the first series I’ve ever watched in my relatively long baseball watching career where the possibility actually entered my mind. The calls were bad, really bad – and all one way.

The motive would be simple: MLB makes more money when certain teams are in the playoffs. Most likely, the Dodgers are one of those teams.

Given the way this season is panning out, the only credible threat to the Dodgers making the playoffs are the Giants and Rockies. With the Dodgers faltering as of late and the Giants rising into striking distance, this series represented a significant turning point.

Had the Giants won the series (especially swept), they would have been a legitimate threat. However, if they lost the series it would pretty much assure that they were not going to overtake the Dodgers before the end of the year.

The Dodgers are probably a better team, and as such were likely going to win this series anyway (given pitching match ups, etc). All it would take is some minor meddling on a few select plays to virtually assure it.

The motive is the same as the motive in almost all things – Money. We hold the impartiality of MLB umpires to be sacred – but the recent NBA developments remind us to stay vigilant.

I don’t think these games were fixed. I’m 90% sure the officiating staff just sucks and/or holds some sort of subconscious bias.

However, I won’t flat out reject the possibility that MLB as a whole tries to “encourage” certain teams to succeed for financial reasons.

Think what a $$ disaster a Pirates/Royals WS would be for MLB…

PS: There were 4 or 5 calls this series that were just BAD. Like, horrendous. I’ve watched a lot of baseball and I’ve seen a lot of blown calls – but never so blatant or so numerous. It really does raise a red flag.

by FairweatherFan on Aug 13, 2009 1:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think that the giants are a big enough market team that MLB would want us in the playoffs. Sure were not the yanks red sox mets cubs dodgers or angels but I think we occupy that second tier with the tigers white sox cardinals phillies etc. I bet MLB would have hated if Cleveland had beat Boston in 2007.

by kezargiants on Aug 13, 2009 1:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Absurd. If SF/COL catches LA, then doesn't LA get the wild card and you're back to square one?

Yes, ratings would be higher if the WORLD SERIES had teams from the most major cities (so why doesn’t MLB fix it every year so that it’s dodgers-yankees?). We are far from the WS at the moment, and the dodgers are on a near-certain path to the playoffs— if we catch them, wouldn’t they become favored for the wild card? So you’re suggesting the possibility that MLB is fixing something that doesn’t need fixing. Ok, check. Yeah. Doesn’t make any sense as to motive. Way too premature. The motive to do that would be in the playoffs, would they not?

Next, you are actually suggesting that MLB’s front office — which is made up of several people — might actually be conspiring with the umpires — made up of several more people and at least a dozen umpire crews. And ALL of these people would have to be willing to commit a felony that would very likely be found out (conspiracies are quite difficult to keep secret when they involve that many people). Not only that, but ALL these people would have to agree to an imprisonable offense IMMEDIATELY upon hearing the offer. I mean, if even ONE of those people said ‘no’ and went public, the whole thing is up.

Finally, it is MID-AUGUST, and you are talking about fixing the World Series participants NOW? Putting aside the fact that under the theory you’re suggesting, LA still makes the playoffs so these conspirators are still in the exact same spot, you’re ignoring the benefits to baseball if the races down the stretch are TIGHTER, not looser. Why would baseball benefit from having blowouts in the standings all during September? You’re not making any sense, mang.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 13, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

Let me put it this way: If you think that businesses won’t manipulate results/stretch the truth to make a buck, you’re incredibly naive. I know however that you aren’t naive, so I can only assume you aren’t drawing a parallel. Enron ring a bell? I work in the defense industry and companies fabricate outcomes to win contracts all the time (I’d like to think that we don’t, but I don’t know…).

It’s really not such an infeasible idea. Defense Contractor A does test X twice. One succeeds and one fails miserably. Which do you think the government gets the data from? That’s a conspiracy involving 100’s of employees. Big business is wrought with white collar crime on scales much larger than fixing a few MLB games. In my mind it’s totally feasible.

Top down “massaging” of pro sport game outcomes would fit very nicely into a long history of “victimless” white collar crimes in this country. Does it take a mass conspiracy of 100’s of people to pull this off? No. It takes about 3. A single person high up in MLB’s front office, an umpire, and a middle man.

I counter your argument about it being August and too early to fix the WS contestants by saying that the only feasible way to fix the WS contestants would be to start early. Umpires in baseball rarely have the opportunity to determine who wins or loses w/ a call or two. In order to effect the outcomes of a season – they would need to spread that out over a few choice games/series and act when they could flip a close call in such a way that it benefited one team enough to change the outcome of the game. In other words, if you want to ensure the Dodgers made the playoffs, you would want to do so by helping them get a few extra wins now – not at the end of September when you may not have the opportunity or it would be too obvious.

And no, if the Dodgers had gotten swept by the Giants this series (hypothetical, there was no danger of that in retrospect) they would be in legitimate danger of being passed by both the Giants and the Rockies – missing the playoffs all together.

If something like this were to happen, it wouldn’t be an absolute “The Dodgers need to make the playoffs, so let’s make that happen” memo – there is no credible mechanism for that – it would be too obvious.

However “It would be more profitable if they made the playoffs, so lets tweak things a little here and a little there to help them out” is perfectly feasible, the mechanism exists, the # of people involved is small, and the motive is large.

Hell, it doesn’t even have to be explicit. I guarantee you that MLB’s financial people have figured out which teams are the biggest money makers in the playoffs, and it wouldn’t take an explicit statement by anyone to communicate that information around to people (including umpires) who could effect game outcomes. No one has to say “Help the Dodgers win.” The incentive structure for umpires could be setup in such a way that they came to those conclusions themselves – sometimes even unknowingly. People will usually make decisions that are properly based on their incentives. It wouldn’t be that hard to setup a corporate merit/demerit system for umpires that indirectly incentivised them to bias towards certain teams. That kinda shit happens in every other business.

by FairweatherFan on Aug 13, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW

I’m mostly playing devils advocate here. I don’t think the games were fixed. It’s possible the crew had a bias and that influenced their decisions (they are human, after all – and none of us is impartial)

I do think, however, that if Bud or someone else w/ sufficient pull/money WANTED to fix baseball games that it is totally feasible. If I knew that a particular umpire on a crew was going to do everything he reasonable could to help team A in a series against team B, given the nature of baseball and the relative parity – I’d feel pretty sure team A was gonna win the majority of the time.

by FairweatherFan on Aug 13, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But no, I think the umps just blew it this series.

Nobody likes money

by fwoty oz on Aug 13, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

NBA & NFL – fixed

El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."

by ResDog on Aug 13, 2009 2:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I also have interest in that theory by Friar William of Occam.

My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!

by nvsfg on Aug 13, 2009 4:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

razor?

i barely know ’er

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 13, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted "No"

I tend to believe in man’s inherent idiocy, not his inherent evil.

by Wazl on Aug 13, 2009 6:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity”

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Aug 13, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but then again

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Aug 13, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See United States; circa 2000 to 2008

My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!

by nvsfg on Aug 14, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point-- that malice often resembled incompetence.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 16, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

SHIT

It happens.

Bad calls, they happen. Sometimes they go for you and some times they go against you. That’s all I got.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right

by Giant among Angels on Aug 13, 2009 7:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Of Interest

I was watching one of the basketball games that later on turned out to be one that was fixed. My friend a heat fan was watching the game with me. I was kind of neutral watching the game, although I like the heat, I like a bunch of other teams, and am not passionate about any one team in basketball like I am with the giants. Anyway my friend was going nuts over the calls. He drew me in to watching the game closely, and we both concluded, way before the case actually came out, that the game was fixed. It had to be. Many people apparently thought the same. But coaches in the NBA couldn’t say anything without being fined. As a general fan of basketball, it made the game hard to watch. It turned out to really be fixed. I had the same feeling watching that game as I did watching this series. Even my buddy who is a Yankee fan, said, you didn’t just get one bad call, you got all the bad calls and there were a bunch of them. That umping crew needs to come under serious scrutiny. One or two minor bad calls in a series I can understand, but multiple bad calls, some of them horrendous, and always going in the dodger’s favor, makes one think individuals had a stake in the outcome, or baseball itself wants a large market WS this year with the Yanks and Bums, to draw maximum ratings. I hope the later is not the case, and sound almost paranoid, but it is a multibillion dollar industry and in this age of corruption, such a scandal would make the steriod issue minor by comparison.

by bradleybear on Aug 13, 2009 10:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The play in game 3 where the 1B umpire overruled the 2B umpire’s bad call on Pablo running to second, and then called out Nate at first without looking seemed way too incompetent to be a part of a fix. They just stunk it up for a few games, in the most irritating way possible for Giants fans. It happens.

Osiris, lord of the dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.

by neurofarm on Aug 14, 2009 12:04 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

this particular call had to be the worst one I’ve ever seen. How does the second base ump blow a call that badly? The play is right in front of him, with the ball in Castro’s throwing hand.

by tyrannoman on Aug 14, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it was all kinds of awful. Fortunately the 1B ump overruled him. I thought it was funny how K&K suggested that the 2B ump should have then overruled the 1B ump’s out call on Schierholtz.

Osiris, lord of the dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.

by neurofarm on Aug 14, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umpires blow that "tagging with empty glove" play all the damn time, and it is infuriating.

I see it from my seats all the damn time, and nearly have a stroke every time the umpire calls the runner out. (Admittedly, moreso when it’s a Giant runner getting screwed.)

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 16, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't believe the games were fixed

However, if they had been fixed, I do not think any calls would have been made differently.

VOTE SANDOVAL
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Aug 14, 2009 1:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If it were just incompetence

The bad calls would have more likely evened out. Perhaps one umpire was not in on the fix. That would seem to make more sense. If it smells like a fix, looks like a fix, talks like a fix, its probably a fix.

by bradleybear on Aug 16, 2009 4:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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