The Matt Cain conundrum
by NeifiChicken on Jul 8, 2009 12:54 PM PDT
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Matt Cain has had all-star caliber results this year, which has been a huge part of our success to this point as well as why he is a candidate to start in next week's all-star game. We've all marveled at his 2009 and how he's grown as a pitcher, improved his changeup immensely, and essentially "broken out" to be the ace we've all hope he could always be.
However, has Cain really broken out or improved at all?
To the eye, the biggest improvement I see in Cain this year is in his changeup. It's become a great pitch for him and he's using it more and more (although I'd want him to use it even more). However, what else is really that different with Cain from year's past? Run support has finally been there, but it hasn't affected his peripheral stats.
Let's take a look at Cain's '09 stats
Contact%: 80.1% (06-08: 81.2%)
K/9: 7.26 (06-08: 7.81)
BB/9: 3.59 (06-08: 3.80, 07-08: 3.65)
K/BB: 2.02 (06-08: 2.05)
HR/9: 0.86 (06-08: 0.75)
HR/FB%: 7.7% (06-08: 6.3%)
FIP: 3.89 (06-08: 3.90)
BABIP: .266 (06-08: .288)
LOB%: 86.1% (06-08: 72.6%)
GB/FB: 0.79 (06-08: 0.78)
FB Velo avg: 92.2 (06-08: 93.1)
Basically, on paper, Matt Cain is pretty much exactly the same pitcher he has been for the past 3 year's. In fact, his velo's a little down and he's not striking out as many guys, whilst surrendering HR's at a higher rate. So why is Cain doing so well? Is he really any better? If not, can we really expect this good fortune to continue?
1) Is it defense? The Giants rank 6th in the majors in UZR up 3 spots from 9th last year. It's not been a huge leap, but a decent sized one nonetheless. However, the two biggest positions we've experienced this leap is at 2B and 1B, both of which are infield positions that likely wouldn't benefit Cain to a large degree given his extreme flyball tendencies. The OF defense might be a tad better this year, but it's more or less the same personnel logging the majority of the innings, maybe a slight boost there though.
I think the improved defense has helped Cain, like it has all our pitchers, but not nearly to the extent of Cain's improvement. We have a solid defense, so pitcher's should be outproducing their FIP's, but not to the degree of Cain.
2) Has Cain gained composure in tough spots, thus stranding more runners? First of all, I think Matt Cain has always had excellent composure, he'd have to to pitch through the lack of support he's gotten over the years. So I really don't think Cain is stranding runners at a higher rate because he's "grown", the truth of the matter is, Cain's just been very lucky to strand runners at the rate he has. Almost all pitchers average a LOB% between 68-73%, there is certainly soem degree of control to this, but not to large degree's. Cain's 86.1% rate is just way too high to be considered sustainable. Sure, defense helps here as well, but once again, not to the degree it's helped Cain.
This rate is certainly going to lower leading Cain to yield more and more run and build higher pitch counts forcing him to leave games earlier.
The truth of the matter is, Matt Cain is pretty much the same pitcher he has been for the past 3 years, which is still damn good, but he has really not shown too much this year to suggest he is going to continue yielding the results he has so far in '09. He has some regression coming his way, and while this season will certainly go down as his best yet, it would be foolish of the Giants FO to think we can count on another 115 IP of 2.42 ERA ball in the 2nd half when trying to calculate just how much we need to improve to make the playoffs in 2009.
I love Matt Cain and I do believe he certainly has Cy Young potential in the future, but I don't think he's made the leaps a lot of people feel he's made this year. He was probably under appreciated in the past and is now a bit over appreciated in the present. The true growth for Cain will be cutting those walk rates by about 1 BB per 9, that is when Matt Cain will truly take the next step in his career as a pitcher.
Perhaps I'm wrong and Matt has already taken the "next step", but someone would have to clarify it for me so that I can understand why
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Maybe people on the radio think this, but I think most people around these parts recognize that Cain’s mostly been lucky with strand rates and run support this year. A lot of people even called it before the season started, in fact.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I don’t think the RS is necessarily lucky. For pitchers with more than 80 ip this year, he’s ranked 31st in the NL. It was more that he was unlucky before in that regard.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 8, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I didn’t mean to say he was lucky with run support so much as that he’s finally getting a reasonable amount of it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
right on
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 8, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
On a similar topic, watching the MLB channel this morning, I was flabbergasted by their commentary on the Giants game. After a rough start, Barry Zito, they say, has turned the clock back to his 2002 Cy Young days. Toss out his first 10 starts, they say, and you can see how he’s really turned it around.
And the proof? Well, let’s go to the graphic:
1st 10 starts, 1-6 W-L, 28 RA
Last 7 starts, 4-2 W-L, 22 RA
Now I’m no math genius, but in the few seconds they had that up I was able to calculate that he allowed fewer runs per game in his early struggle period then in his later “Cy” capable period. I just sat their stunned that a sentient human being could have come up with that graphic and decided that made the perfect case that Zito has now returned to his glory days.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
But, Roger, did the graphic have an animated background? That’s there to distract you from critical thinking. Maybe the background needed more movement…
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Definitely needed a juicer — I agree; I never would have questioned their logic if they’d had a juicer.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Ha.
I heard that too and thought it was retarded.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jul 9, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Matt Cain has been pitching great. You guys want to bring out whatever stat you can to make him look like a “3rd pitcher at best?” That is quite absurd. Im just sorry, stats are great and all, but they really arent everything. I know basebally revolves around them and it is a numbers game and everything, but sometimes there are things greater than the numbers. Joe DiMaggio is a better player than Babe Ruth because he missed 3 season of his prime fighting in WWII, the stats dont show it. I know we are arguing different things right now, but statistics arent the only barometer of success and surely not the only measure of success in pitching.
Cain has been a great pitcher for the Giants throughout his career. He has had many hard-luck losses. Some other post had Brian Wilson blowing 19 saves in Matt Cain wins alone? That is 19 more wins that Cain would have had. You guys can bring up random stats that you want to throw around, but really, Cain has brought us here, so please show some damn respect for once.
Joe DiMaggio is a better player than Babe Ruth because he missed 3 season of his prime fighting in WWII, the stats dont show it
lololol no.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Joey D vs. Babe Ruth using….aieeeeeee, stats! DiMaggio would need 10 more of his best season to beat out Baby Ruth.
Kenny: The sultan of swat!
Bertram: The king of crash!
Timmy: The colossus of clout!
Tommy: The colossus of clout!
All: BABE RUTH!
Ham Porter: THE GREAT BAMBINO!
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
I love that movie. Despite Benny wearing a Dodgers hat the whole goddamn time.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
It just shows how good the movie is. It can start out inherently evil and somehow remain a wonderful classic.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Put the two players next to each other, I guarantee you DiMaggio is better than Babe. You might disagree, but that is fine.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 8, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I did, and you’re wrong. And it’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a fact.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Believe what you want. Read a book. There are many that will say DiMaggio is the better of the two. Using “stats” and various other reference tools to make their arguments.
Babe played at a time where he wasnt supposed to do what he did and that is amazing. I take nothing away from that. But you cannot say something is a fact, not a matter of opinion. Two players of different generations cannot be compared by statistics alone.
You cant say that Albert Einstein is more brilliant than Da Vinci just because he advanced science more can you? It is a fact, but can you make the argument?
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 9, 2009 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I think there are a few people who wrote books saying that Ruth was better.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
What are these mysterious books? Because I’ve read a lot in my time, and I’ve never stumbled onto this Joe better than Babe theory before.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
You cant say that Albert Einstein is more brilliant than Da Vinci just because he advanced science more can you?
I think DaVinci advanced science more
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 9, 2009 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but you’re forgetting about all the science time that Einstein lost to the war, and hookers.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 9, 2009 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions
DaVinci (and I guess us…LOL!) got really lucky that male prostitution didn’t become popular until the late 1500’s.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Ever taken a science course above 8th grade?
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 9, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
you evr taken a history course?
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 9, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, and I have a BS
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 9, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
History BA, Biology BS, and a law degree from Harvard actually. But no, I dont think Im possibly aware of your birlliance and your Cal State Stanislaus degree.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 9, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes
It’s the keyboards fault. Amazing you have all that education and no clue.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Woo Hoo Insulting peoples education over the internet FTW!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 9, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
The funny thing is
Given his handle, his premise, and his general level of discourse, I don’t believe for one second he went to Harvard. And if he did, it’s a real poor mark on their Law program since he hasn’t made one compelling point.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
funny thing is, he says “Harvard actually”. I never asked where he went, also I like how he assumes I went to school in Cal.
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 9, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
UZ R SMARTZ
1) Da Vinci was scientific at time when religion ruled. He risked his life and limb in the pursuit of science. Was Einstein was persecuted by the Nazis? Yes, was he afraid for his life in the US, probably not. Bottom line DaVinci progress was affected and probably decreased due to the times
2) I think Einstein concepts are far more complex than DaVinci’s, but at the time DaVincis were just as if not more valuable
3) DaVinci is da MAN yo
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 9, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Please name DaVinci's major scientific advancements.
Because I can’t really think of any.
Galileo, yes. Copernicus, yes. DaVinci? Sketching a non-functional “helicopter” in one’s secret note book is not a scientific advancement. He was too curious for his own good, bouncing between interests too quickly to fundamentally advance any particular field. Furthermore, his failure to disseminate his work hampered any contributions in those fields were his observations might have made a difference.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
What about anatomy?
DaVinci was not the first person to take a serious look at anatomy, such was a common practice among Renaissance artists. In fact, DaVinci was introduced to anatomical study as an apprentice to a master artist, who considered it a necessary aspect of Leonardo’s instruction. He studied anatomy to improve his artwork, he didn’t employ his knowledge to advance science.
The problem with DaVinci as a scientific revolutionary is that any discoveries he made weren’t recognized until modern times. Though his cryptic notes existed, they weren’t organized and printed until 150 after he died, so his knowledge essentially died with him. Disseminating discoveries is a key aspect of the scientific process. To be a great scientist, you actually have to tell other people what you’ve learned before they figure it out themselves.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
if Harvard saw your claims about DiMaggio > Ruth, they’d tear up your degree
by NeifiChicken on Jul 9, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not usually like this but...
YOU have a law degree from Harvard? And a double Bachelors degree?
…
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Obviously he does
He claimed he did on the Internet, so we have very reason to think it’s true.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
In this comment I made above, someone very smart used stats to show that, not only was Ruth better than DiMaggio, it’s by such a ridiculous amount that it makes this possibly the stupidest argument ever. If you include Ruth’s pitching (which isn’t needed to make this ridiculous), it gets even worse.
Two players of different generations cannot be compared by statistics alone.
Yes, they actually can, and I don’t know how else you could compare them. You just have to properly adjust for a variety of things (ballpark, era, level of competition).
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Please don’t use the word “stupidest” and then question my education.
And Sey Hey, your awesome deduction that you never asked my what University I attended for Law School is irrelevant. Harvard Law is the second best law program in the country behind Yale Law.
And to the rest of you. Believe anything you want. I posted my opinion. Matt Cain is a better pitcher than many people on this site or in the Giants fan base give him credit for. And I believe DiMaggio was a better player. Babe Ruth was set up for success and was helped by a league that needed a star to save them. One more thing, have you ever seen the size of Babe Ruth’s bat next to Dimaggio’s? You could hit a basketball 600 Feet with Ruth’s it was so large and strong. Ruth was one of the best. I am just keen on DiMaggio.
This is like picking Wilt of Jordan. Gretzky or Lemieux. Both have their reasons. So, while you all ponder the relative failures of your life, I must get back to work.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 9, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
You know
I am a pretty arrogant fellow – but damn.
I guess I better get back to failing at life. Lesson 1 → how to convince people how smart you are via the internet.
by FairweatherFan on Jul 9, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Oooooo so pretending to be a baseball expert on a blog is a worthwhile use of internet time then. Good to know.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 9, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
This is like picking Wilt of Jordan. Gretzky or Lemieux. Both have their reasons. So, while you all ponder the relative failures of your life, I must get back to work.
Not really, most people don’t even consider DiMaggio in the top 10. Comparing Ruth to Mays, Bonds, Ted Williams, etc. might be comparable.
Also, who doesn’t love Matt Cain on this site?
3RD AT BEST!!!!!
BFD, maybe I work at or attended a university that is on par if not better than Harvard. I won’t say b/c I don’t need to impress. BTW, college rankings are a joke.
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 9, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Well played, gimpsta
Jump on my use of the word “stupidest” and ignore the actual point.
OT for the English nerds: Why the fuck can’t I use stupidest? Just because Websters or OED doesn’t recognize it as a word? That’s dumb. It’s plainly obvious to everyone what stupidest means, so why not use it?
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
I use stupidest all of the time
I also don’t knock my students if they use it in their essays.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Fixed
So, while you all ponder the relative failures of your life, I must get back to workWhile I recognize I don’t have a leg to stand on and no means of backing up what I say, I, gimpsta, am going to insult you all as a last resort, pretend to go back to work, and ignore any further posts as a way of trying to maintain my air of self-satisfaction. Thanks.
Let us know how that works out for you.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
On a scale of 1-10, it was a pretty weak barb to throw. I’d give it a 2 or 3. It needed more “mother’s basement” and references to us all being virgins.
Dammit!
Well, it would have been better if I’d attended Harfurd Law, too. Stupid education!
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
HERFORD LAW…WE MAKE MOONEY
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 9, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasnt an attempted barb. Was just a statement of fact. You think I dont have a leg to stand on, but all of the arguments that people have been making have been very “nuh uh! Babe Ruth is better!” while they stomp their feets and run back to their mothers basement for their daily incestuous blow job (that is for you xan).
My original point in this whole discussion was to protect Matt Cain. You have all jumped on me (which is fine, Im a grown man) but you have all forgotten the original intent. Everytime one of you says something, it is how another player (not named Pablo or Tim) has done something wrong. It annoys the crap out of me. We are not fans of NY or Philly teams. So honestly, just cut the juvenile gang bang that you all are getting off to and enjoy baseball. It inspires debate. If you disagree, I really dont care why, you are allowed to. Some people think that Abe Lincoln was not the best president we have had in our country. They are wrong, but they think it. So let them, because they have their reasons, whatever they may be. You are all ignorant fools with some of the “stupidest” waste of time arguments Ive come across, and Ive seen some of the most pointless law suits cross my desk.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 9, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Umm… all of the arguments that people have been making present evidence that Babe Ruth is better than DiMaggio. And don’t try to flip it saying that you’re just trying to defend Cain when the majority of us think he’s awesome.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
Actually quite a few people have pointed to their statistical records. You’re argument IIRC, was based on fictional things DiMaggio might have done in years he didn’t play.
But mostly what you have completely failed to notice over and over again is that Matt didn’t need protecting here. This post was simply preaching to the choir, as both jponry and Natto noted on this thread looooong before you got involved and told us we were all shitheads for not appreciating Matty enough.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
as the writer of this fanpost
even I like Cain a helluva lot. he’s a great pitcher. My point is simply that he’s not yet the INCREDIBLE pitcher his performance has indicated halfway through the season. He’s 24 though, when he hits his prime he might very well be (although he’ll be pitching for the Mets)
Wasnt an attempted barb. Was just a statement of fact.
Um, I think we might need to file an appeal on this one, counsel.
So, while you all ponder the relative failures of your life, I must get back to work.
I think you’re alleged education might have failed you, as you don’t quite seem to recognize the difference between an attempted barb and a statement of fact.
I would like to submit the following evidence, if it pleases the court, that even the part where you said, “I must get back to work,” was not a statement of fact. It was a misleading attempt to try ducking out of what would appear to be a losing argument.
We’ll call this exhibit A:
Wasnt an attempted barb. Was just a statement of fact. You think I dont have a leg to stand on, but all of the arguments that people have been making have been very "nuh uh! Babe Ruth is better!" while they stomp their feets and run back to their mothers basement for their daily incestuous blow job (that is for you xan).
My original point in this whole discussion was to protect Matt Cain. You have all jumped on me (which is fine, Im a grown man) but you have all forgotten the original intent. Everytime one of you says something, it is how another player (not named Pablo or Tim) has done something wrong. It annoys the crap out of me. We are not fans of NY or Philly teams. So honestly, just cut the juvenile gang bang that you all are getting off to and enjoy baseball. It inspires debate. If you disagree, I really dont care why, you are allowed to. Some people think that Abe Lincoln was not the best president we have had in our country. They are wrong, but they think it. So let them, because they have their reasons, whatever they may be. You are all ignorant fools with some of the "stupidest" waste of time arguments Ive come across, and Ive seen some of the most pointless law suits cross my desk.
Ladies and gentlemen, gimpsta7 returned to continue trying to defend himself. If he found the time to make a long-winded post, then he most certainly did not need to get back to work. And even if he DID need to return to his work for just a few minutes… Why bother saying he had to return to work? Ladies and gentlemen, I submit to you that gimpsta was NOT getting back to work. He was, instead, attempting a barb. NOT making a statement of fact.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 9, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lies and devilry
No true Harvard grad would admit Yale was better at anything.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
No one from Harvard Law would admit that Yale is a better law program.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 13, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh RDreamer beat me to it
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 13, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope this is
on a pound for pound basis.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
oh
and DiMaggio’s not even as good as Micky Mantle, the guy who replaced him.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Joe DiMaggio average OPS+: 155
Babe Ruth: 207
Yeah…. I don’t see it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Do you think that Dimaggio was the best player ever, then?
I, personally, don’t even think he’s in the top ten.
He was a great player. But not anywhere near the Babe.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
I think that Mickey Mantle is the best player ever.
Then Lou Gehrig
DiMaggio
Mays
Ruth
Bonds
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 9, 2009 6:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m gonna have to question your use of the verb “to think” there.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I was silent on the Dimaggio argument
But Gehrig above Ruth? Their careers overlapped, there isn’t even an era argument to fall back on (and it there was, it would probably favor Ruth).
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Like the fact that Ruth played 6 seasons in the dead ball era and Gehrig never did? Or that Ruth spent several seasons primarily as a (pretty good) pitcher? That Ruth played harder defensive positions and was a superior base runner (did you know Ruth stole home more than anyone else in the 500 HR club — trivia, but fun)?
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Everyone loves him, we’re just saying he’s the same as he’s always been, which is a solid #2 starter (the 3rd at best is just an inside joke, ignore it).
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
- Nobody think Matt Cain is a third starter at best. We know he’s a good pitcher.
- Brian Wilson did not blow 19 saves in Matt Cain games. He hasn’t even blown 19 save in his entire career. That was a joke by Grant.
- Joe DiMaggio was not better than Babe Ruth. And the stats do, in fact, show that he missed 3 years of his prime.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
Infact the stats don't show it
Joe D stats:
Pre War- Less than Babe
War-Redacted by Bud “Babe Loving” Selig*
Post War- Less than Babe
*WW2 is a illusion, it was created by MLB to make it seem like Joe D <<Babe, we have all been brainwashed
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 8, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
You heard it here first
Bud Selig was a Nazi sympathizer.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Bud Selig was a Nazi. Do we even have confirmed evidence Hitler really died?
by Missing Barry on Jul 8, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Stats cant be altered. You can guess, but no one knows what he or Ted Williams would have done. What they would have one, or what might have been. DiMaggio may have hit 73 straight games or Williams may have hit .500. You cant just assume. But Im sure can.
On the Wilson thing, ok, thought you guys had lost your minds.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 8, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
DiMaggio may have hit 73 straight games or Williams may have hit .500.
I can guarantee neither of these things could have happened or ever will happen.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
This is true
But also, even if Dimaggio had hit in 73 straight games, he still wouldn’t have been better than Ruth.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
This is one of the strangest arguments I have ever, EVER, seen
Joe Dimaggio was better than Babe Ruth because he MIGHT have done something absurdly unrealistic in the years he lost to the war?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Yup. This is the same reason that I am better than kenshin1.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 8, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Depends on what they might or might not have done between the time I wrote that comment and now.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 9, 2009 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions
And it’s not like having a 73 game hitting streak would magically make DiMaggio better than Ruth either.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
A year ago today you were shrieking about how Cain DOESNT KNOW HOW TO WIN, weren’t you
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
I wasnt on this site actually. And Im biased because Cain is my favorite player on the Giants. So no, I did not complain about him not “knowing how to win.” That would be the defense. A pitcher who throws a great game and gets beat 1-0 knows how to win, the offense doesnt.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jul 8, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
correct answer
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
You’ve definitely read this website before. Matt Cain is garbage.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 8, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
conundrum
Cain for Fielder?
Cane for Felder?
Kane for Felldar?
So many choices
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
it did seem that his velocity was down earlier in the year, but lately he hasn’t had much trouble hitting 95/96 with his fastball. I’d like to see a month by month breakdown on that in case my eyes be deceiving me.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 8, 2009 4:35 PM PDT reply actions
I agree with your assessment and threw out the possibility of selling high (once again, not advocating!) a little while ago. Of course I was immediately shot down.
Really it makes no sense trading him. The Giants will continue to be lucky or not. If they are lucky enough to make it to the playoffs with their meager offense, they will survive on their starting pitching – if the Giants trade him for a couple of important pieces, they still have to find somebody to fill his spot in a 3-4 man rotation during the playoffs. Cain > Sanchez.
I think Matt Cain is just a little bit better control away from being a superstar pitcher. He is young and just might get there.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 8, 2009 5:04 PM PDT reply actions
I could live with trading him honestly
it would just have to be for a king’s ransom (Rasmus, Wallace, Todd)
but with us in contention for the moment, it makes trading him nearly impossible in the public’s eye
Interesting example. I have no insight into Jeff Luhnow’s thinking, but I could picture the Cardinals making that trade. I’m not sure, however, that I’d want to give up Matt Cain. I just can’t stop thinking about him.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
I think its 4 things
runs support is one, BABIP is another. Being in better shape and getting out of trouble when pitching in the stretch is another, and not challenging always with a hyped up fastball that goes flat when he gets in trouble. The run support does not explain his much better ERA. But being in better shape and pitching smarter when he is in trouble, ie; the old cliche, of turning it up a notch, seems to be the difference. This is something good athletes can do very frequently if they have the physical skills. To muster up your best stuff in time of need. This year he seems to be more consistent at being able to do this. Timmy shows this skill frequently too. Their batting average against with runners in scoring position, I would guess, is a key stat that needs to be reviewed.
giants have a pair of aces
and that is good to have. The rest of their hand includes two former Cy YOung winners, one of which still is not yet in a Nursing Home
Can we double down?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
With a pair of aces, I think you want to split.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
I always get that confused
Not a gambler, clearly.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Finally
It’s been frustrating waiting for him to figure it out.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Cain is realizing he doesn’t need to strike guys out and is, it seems at least, not having to use as many pitches as he used to to get hitters out ,which means he is able to go deeper into games and not having to throw 120+ pitches so often.
Anyone advocating trading Cain at this point in time is pretty clueless in my book.
Clueless!!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
SBN reply fail
I typed that int he reply dialog.
by FairweatherFan on Jul 9, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
sung to the tune of clapton's "cocaine"
If you wanna get an out
You’ can’t take him out
Matt Cain
He won’t let you down
When he is on the mound
Matt Cain
He’s alright,
He’s alright,
He’s alright,
Matt Cain
If you got that lose
You wanna kick them (Dodger) blues
Matt Cain
When your day is done
And you wanna ride on
Matt Cain
He’s alright,
He’s alright,
He’s alright,
Matt Cain
If your day is gone
And you wanna ride on
Matt Cain
Don’t forget this fact
Or he won’t come back
Matt Cain
He’s alright,
He’s alright,
He’s alright,
Matt Cain
He’s alright,
He’s alright,
He’s alright,
Matt Cain
Les Plack = more chicks
I am running roughshod over the dingerz.exe league. the dl is trying to jinx me, but im too guile-y.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jul 9, 2009 12:44 PM PDT reply actions
I thought it was Lars
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
ok I will say it
CANE 4 DIMADJIO
DO IT GINTAZ BRAS
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
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