Scott Ostler defending Sabes and calling out the lunatic fringe
Could this be the home of the "lunatic fringe" that he speaks of?
While I am starting to accept the Sanchez trade and the idea that Alderson may not have been as valuable a trading chip as I thought, I also really think both of Sabean's moves were made with the motive of keeping his job. I think he knows that a playoff appearance guarantees him a new contract and is therefore jeopardizing a future dynasty with shortsighted moves.
Of course I really want to make the playoffs but I can also be patient and heading into this season I was 100% ready and excited for this rebuilding effort. But the Renteria signing, Aurilia’s ever-secure spot on this team and both of these deadline moves seem to go in the opposite direction and that Sabean will not be the GM of a World Series-winning team. Yes, Garko is under team control for awhile but he’s approaching 30 and essentially league-average and Sanchez is on the wrong side of 30 already with declining skills (offensive and defensive), a knee problem that we really don’t know the extent of and a contract option to pay him way too much next year.
Are we really going to have a middle infield of Renteria and Sanchez making 17 million next year?
A combination of Burriss, Frandsen, Uribe (internal) or the two Orlandos, Cabrera and Hudson (external), would have been a much cheaper option and IMHO would provide similar production this year and next. I have some faint hope that Sanchez could hit .300 in Orange & Black over the next year and a half (I have a stronger inkling that like most of Sabean’s acquisitions he is a few years removed from his best season) but Renteria is the biggest buzzkill to the high I get when I think about this wonderful season so far. He’s exactly the type of hitter we didn’t need in our lineup of 6-8 hitters (minus Sandoval) and the type of signing Sabean’s been burned on in the past. He is overpaid, underperforming, unmotivated and painful to watch. He’s throwing changeups from SS on every close play. I’m convinced that his barehand play the other day was the best thing he’ll do for the Giants over the course of his contract; his error during Timmy’s last start is what I’ve come to expect from him on every ball hit to short.
If these moves end up working out and the Giants make the playoffs, Sabean will be rewarded with a new contract and much more praise from Ostler and other uninformed media folks. I believe I remember Scott Ostler on Chronicle Live talking about how we should consider giving up Posey at the deadline for a Sanchez, Uggla, Willingham, LaRoche type so his opinion that the lunatic fringe is unjustly vilifying Sabean should be taken lightly.
I agree with Grant that whether I like these acquisitions or not, I will root for my contending Giants heartily but we could win a World Series this year and I will still not respect Brian Sabean or Scott Ostler.
Excuse the rant. I’m not much of a poster around here but definitely a frequent reader and I respect the opinions around here a lot more than what I see/hear at the ballpark or in the newspaper so share your thoughts on Sabean, Ostler, Renteria, F. Sanchez and whatever else.
over 2 years ago
CyLinced
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Are you contending that Brian Sabean is deliberately trying to cripple the Giants post-2009 because in he wants another shitty team to preside over if he’s extended?
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
I’m not saying he’s deliberately trying to make the Giants worse…I’m sure he wants a World Series ring to justify his moves and I’m sure in his warped thinking that these moves make some sort of sense. We’ve all talked about how w/ Freddy Sanchez he thinks “.300 hitter, 3-time all star, batting title, gamer, etc.” But I am contending that Sabean is less concerned about the post-2009 Giants then the 2009 Giants because he might not have to care about the post-2009 Giants if he loses his job.
…because of his “warped thinking”? Oh, but it’s not deliberate. Or then, it is? Because Brian Sabean is so selfish that all his moves are for personal reasons – apparently everything he does is only to save his job, including…winning a World Series. So Brian Sabean only wants to secure baseball’s top prize – something that each of the other twenty nine other general managers want to secure, but oh, because Brian Sabean is “warped”, he doesn’t strive to do it for any other reason but to save his own ass this year.
Where do yo come up with this bullshit??
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
And furthermore
Your argument about post-2009 still falls on it’s ass. If the maniac Brian Sabean you swirling around in your head actually existed, then he would have sent every god damned player in the cupboard from MadBum to Posey to Anvil from here to Toronto to and back if he didn’t actually give a damn starting November 2009.
I guess Brian Sabean isn’t a very good selfish maniac.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
a little harsh
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 31, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Dig it...
…can you see CyLinced positing that view over beers at a McCovening and having Crash round on him and deliver that retort in a thundering baritone?
"Where do you come up with this BULLSHIT??
No one speaks…
Nah. That sort of drama is limited to the joyously insulated world of the virtual stage.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 31, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Thing thing is Vic I don’t think CyLinced would make such ridiculous statements were we in an oral forum. Because when you have to say them out loud crackpot schemes come off a little tangy. The only person who can get away with saying stuff like this out loud is like Dr. Doom. (Though I think he might just be made up.)
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 31, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Like others have said, I think you are being a little harsh. Settle down a little.
He never said Sabean is trying to make the Giants BAD on purpose. He simply said that he thinks Sabean is making shortsighted moves in an attempt to make the playoffs and get a new contract. Shortsighted moves can be good, but they can also be bad.
For the most part, I think the moves were okay, but not great (especially Sanchez). Quite a few people have stated their opinion that Sabean is making moves to keep his job (which is probably true to a point). I don’t think he has hurt the teams long-term future that much, but he probably could have dealt Alderson for a far better long-term piece than Sanchez.
by Squire_Boone on Jul 31, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I didn’t disagree with what satyricrash said, it was just how he (assumption, sorry) said it. My take was that it was a little harsh. I think we’ve all been a noobie and we’ve all gone a little medieval on a noob too, but I still think it warrants a “check yourself” when it is clear that the guy was trying. I mean, he did use paragraphs.
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 31, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough, sir.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 31, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Hey, like I said: it happens. You should see the reprimand I got at Beyond the Boxscore. To be fair, those guys have no sense of humor. Oh… and I was right. ; )
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 31, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
You know what, I have this HORRIBLE toothache and I was on a whole lotta pills last night, and I was pretty much a dick all night long (THATS WHAT SH…oh…) from MCC to Twitter to my own site to anyone who texted me. NORMALLY, I would have just rolled my eyes or, at most, made a sarcastic all caps blurt, but with the tooth and or drugs I’m Roy Cohn all of a sudden. EXCUSES!!!!!!!!!!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 31, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
its okay. it was deserved, in part.
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
I will settle down, sir. I understand the frustration fans feel, I do not understand the need to tack on. I think it’s enough to say that Sabes f’ed up without looking for ulterior motives to explain away his decisions. That’s all. Isn’t it enough that Brian Sabean may not be as sharp as he used to be? I think so. In my view it plays into the “lunatic fringe” tag when this kind of thing as added as for serious. Not a fan of hers at all, but it’s like when people pile on about Sarah Palin, adding this and adding that . Isn’t it enough that she’s just plain crummy? Isn’t it enough that Sabes just sucks sometimes? That’s all. YEAH I got a little excited, that’s what I do a lot of the times, sorry. (Not sarcastic.)
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 31, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
From your signature it looks like you think alcohol is to blame for Sabean’s diminishing sharpness. I agree that his intelligence and drinking may have a lot more to do with these moves than a motive but I don’t think the fact that his contract is up after this year should be ignored when analyzing his moves this year, especially the trade deadline ones now that we are in a playoff race.
I think you’re being pretty harsh and I think part of that is because you maybe missed some of my argument. I never said Sabean is intentionally hurting this team because he wants to see the Giants fail after this year. I said that he knows that his job may depend on what he does this season so with that in mind, he’s putting a lot more focus on contending this year than on keeping the Giants long-term outlook as bright as it was 6 months or a year ago.
I’m a noob and maybe this rambled too much but as someone said, at least give me credit for using paragraphs and not having spelling errors. I still don’t get the difference between a fanshot and a fanpost so this may be way too long and posted in the wrong format but where else can a Giants fan go to rant if not at McCovey Chronicles?
Sir, the length of your post nor the length of time you have spent on this site played any role in my feelings on what I believed you to be saying. It seemed to me you made what you believed your points to be, which is the most important ingredient for any successful communique. I just do not happen to agree.
And the Sabes deal in my sig is a play on an old meme we have around here.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 31, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough, sir. I’m on this site and creating fanshots or posts or whatever because I want a successful communique. I don’t expect everyone to agree but I just thought your comments from last night may have been a little harsher because of my lack of McC tenure. But a painful tooth and pharmaceuticals can cause erratic behavior so I understand.
But as for you disagreeing, can you explain? From your first 2 comments you seem to think that my argument doesn’t make any sense. If you disagree that’s one thing but what about my post didn’t make sense? It may be a little lunatic fringe-y and rambling as it was late at night and I was inspired by a magical lettuce-induced state but I don’t think any of my points were incoherent or that absurd.
But I await yours or anyone’s response and am not above retracting foolish statements.
SIr, your intention was clear as stated. What did not make sense to me was that Sabean was being short sighted enough to preside over a mess of an operation, as, if following your assumption, he would be if he were to be retained 2010 and beyond.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 31, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I give Sabean some credit…we’re not the Nationals or the A’s and with Timmy and Pablo under team control for a little while, this team will be fun to watch no matter how much Sabean does to mess things up. And I don’t think Sabean feels that his moves were bad because he sees a guy who had 90 RBIs a year ago and a batting champ. But my overall point is simply that Sabean is making moves that really don’t drastically improve this team while giving away pieces that could do exactly that down the line. Even if Sabean, as I was arguing, is aware that he’s jeopardizing the future, I think he’s less concerned because of his contract and because he actually thinks Sanchez and Garko are difference makers.
Sanchez is simply not that great a player
.336 OBP from a dude who is supposed to have almost all his value based on getting on base. Negligible power, but w/e that was never a considering factor with him anyway. He’s a mediocre player at BEST.
AT BEST
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, tearing up Scottsdale, and has been alive long enough to see the Warriors make the playoffs once.
He’s a mediocre player at BEST.
That’s disingenuous. In 2005, he was a 3.2 WAR player. In ‘06 4.8. In ’07 3.8. In ’08 he had a terrible year and was a 0.4 WAR player. So far this year he’s been a 2.2 WAR player, on pace for 3.4 WAR for the season. That’s far from mediocre at best, even if you predict a drop off due to injury and age.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
WAR--what is it good for?
seriously, I don’t know. I know what VORP is, but not WAR.
WAR stands for Wins Above Replacement. It calculates how many wins a player adds to a team above that which a replacement player would provide by looking at how many runs he adds offensively, defensively and on the basepaths (I think).
Thus, Freddie Sanchez adds well over 3 additional wins to a team on average in three of the past four years. League average is around 2 wins over replacement. So Freddie is well above average.
Given that market value is around $5 million per win, you can use the info above to calculate the relative value of a player. Sanchez is under contract for $8 million for next year. Thus, he’d only have to be a 1.6 WAR player to perform to his contract.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Can you explain
how a league average player can add 2 wins a season? This is the part I don’t understand, wouldn’t an average player be at 0? I need coffee
A team made up of entirely replacement level players would win around 25 games. It’s a really low benchmark, established as what’s pretty much left over in AAA – think minor league free agent: a team of Ramon Ortiz, Scott McLane, Ben Copeland, etc.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Absolutely nothin’, say it again.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 31, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
whoahwwwwhoahwhoahwhoah
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 31, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
little high on Alderson there, also he adds more wins to this team than HOlladay would
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 31, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
seriously doubt that
You make the assumption these two are the same player from August-October that they have been from April-July. Holliday is far more likely to trend upward and Sanchez is far more likely to rend downward. Even with the position disparity, Holliday would have made the greater impact (although would have cost more than Alderson)
by NeifiChicken on Jul 31, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
He meant Halladay I think by the way he spelled it
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
either way....
Hallday would be even greater than both, but the cost would’ve been Bumarner, Alderson, Barnes, Neal
by NeifiChicken on Jul 31, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
Freddy Sanchez has already been worth nearly $12 million to the team just coming off of the break, double what he is getting paid now. Why on earth would he take a $3 million pay cut when all he has to do is stay in the lineup? Granted, Sanchez was terrible last year and it isn’t like he is without his foibles — he doesn’t run all that well, doesn’t walk and doesn’t hit for much power. He’s been slightly above average in the field, with a career UZR/150 of 5. So maybe he is somewhat of an empty .300 hitter, but over his past three healthy seasons, his WAR totals have been 3.2, 4.8, 3.8 and now 2.6 this season. The man is hardly a $5 mil a year player.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/breaking-up-the-band
you are really confussing me here, what side are you arguing?
The article you link is about Pitts contract extension offer
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 31, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
tl;dr
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Looks to me like someone simply used used the Ostler column headline as an excuse to make put a spotlight on his or her own opinions, which could have easily been shared on one of the existing Sanchez threads.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
What’s with this feeling that fanposts/shots are sacred and that they shouldn’t be posted if they can be put in another comment thread? I’ve seen the comment threads here and as awesome as they are, things can get lost. I read the article and after seeing both Ostler and Sabes on Chronicle Live in the last week or two, it prompted a rant out of me. I’m not trying to put a spotlight on my opinions…I’m stating my opinions in a format I thought was appropriate in order to spark discussion with other loyal Giants fans. Isn’t that what this whole interweb thing (and especially this site) was created for?
Sigh
Actually, that’s not what the site was created for. It was orginally a forum for Grant to share his thoughts about the Giants with whoever was interested in reading them. The ability to for others to add comments came later, but that’s beside the point.
This is not a typical message board, it’s a comminuty of individuals who regularly discuss Giants and non-Giants-related topics. It’s also much more like “real-life” than many internet sites in that people don’t really appreciate “drive-by” posts where people act as though their opinions are far too important to be shared in an existing discussion.
When people start new fanposts and fanshots on subjects already being discussed, it creates more noise and people feel the need to share their opinions over and over on different threads.
Think of it like a entering a cocktail party where people are discussing a topic. If you wanted to talk about the same topic, would you join the existing conversation, or would you stand up on a chair and start bellowing your opinions because you felt you were more likely to be noticed that way?
Everyone is welcome to join this community, but trust me when I tell you that your words and opinions will be much more valued if you conform to the way things work around here. Also, we regualrly delete repetitive threads here and I came this close to deleting yours. If I had, all the work you put into writing this would have been wasted.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Point Taken
I appreciate you not deleting the thread but if you want to now go for it. What I wanted to say has been said and while it would’ve hurt my pride a bit to get deleted, I’m not usually short on words so from now on I’ll direct my lengthy diatribes to existing threads.
It's all good
Like I said, you’re more than welcome to be part of this community. It’s a good bunch of folks, there’s a tremendous amount of baseball knowledge shared here, and many of the folks have been hanging out here for years. The more time you spend here, the more you’ll see what I mean about this place being much different than a typical internet message board.
Cheers
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Talk, talk, its only talk
Debates, discussions
These are words with a d this time
Dialogue, dualogue, diatribe,
Dissention, declamation
Double talk, double talk
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 31, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
we could win a World Series this year and I will still not respect Brian Sabean
Um, why do you watch baseball?
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
I’m sure Neukum takes these thoughts in account on a daily basis
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 31, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Alright, maybe this needs some clarification. I obviously would love a World Series title and don’t want to come off like one of those fans that’s never happy no matter what the team does. I’m just a fan that’s extremely happy with the direction of the team lately but constantly frustrated when the GM makes moves that I think are misguided.
When I say that a World Series title won’t vindicate Sabean, I mean that if we win a World Series it will be because of Sandoval, Lincecum and Cain, not Zito, Renteria, Rowand, Sanchez or Garko.
And I know Sabean runs the whole team so on paper he’s just as responsible for “discovering” Timmy, Matty and Pablo as he is for his bad signings but in my biased opinion, it seems he’s much more responsible for trades/FA signings than he is for scouting and development.
“When I say that a World Series title won’t vindicate Sabean, I mean that if we win a World Series it will be because of Sandoval, Lincecum and Cain, not Zito, Renteria, Rowand, Sanchez or Garko.”
The same guy acquired all those players, though. If they win because of Sandoval, Lincecum, and Cain, then Sabean will deserve the credit. Hell, I criticize and poke fun at him as much as anybody, but if Sabean finds a way to bring achampionship to SF — I don’t care how — I will take back everything bad I ever said, wrote or drew about him. Furthermore, I’ll name my first son in his honor. Sure, my kid will get teased for having a name like “Tire-Kicker”, but it will be well-worth it.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 31, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t take back everything bad I ever said about him, but I would admit that I’m glad he works here and I applaud him on the team he built this year and I certainly will not claim the team succeeded despite him. He built this team. If they do badly, that’s on him. But if they do well, that’s on him too.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
I saw Ostler on Chronicle Live last week and he said he would offer Buster Posey for Sanchez. He must think Sabean is a genius for only having to give up Alderson.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
That was the first — and last minute — of that show I’ve ever seen. As soon as he said that, I changed the channel, haven’t returned, and don’t plan to.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 31, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not a big Ostler or Sabean fan, and I do think Sabean is hurting our future in an attempt to get a new contract….but I have to say, I didn’t find anything wrong in the article. All Ostler’s points were fair. Reading it over, he really doesn’t say much other than he thinks the fans that were unhappy with this (which were many fans) are pretty much the lunatic fringe.
this is the longest FanShot in the history of McCovey Chronicles
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 31, 2009 10:07 AM PDT reply actions
Any GM in Sabean’s position – tied for the Wild Card lead in late July – has got to be thinking first and foremost about this season’s playoffs. His job is to put together a winning team, and if there’s a move he thinks could help get his team to the series this year, he’s got to make it, not think about a hypothetical future dynasty.
I still feel like Sabean overpaid for Sanchez, but I’m not about to question his motives when he’s doing exactly his job.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
OK, maybe a GM doesn’t think about a future dynasty as much as I do but his moves still don’t make sense to me. This team was contending despite Renteria and despite a lot of AAAA players starting and while I wasn’t confident that this team would be able to maintain a Wild Card lead with their roster of two weeks ago, it was still a possibility. With that in mind, I just think there could’ve been better uses for both prospects and better players to obtain than Garko and Sanchez. And I know we’re not going to get Chase Utley and Ryan Howard at first and second but if there were no good options out there and no GMs were willing to take Alderson as a centerpiece for a bigger deal, then I would’ve just been happy to stand pat and see what the original team would do.
I know anything can happen in the playoffs but I don’t think the moves to acquire Sanchez and Garko will get us to the series. Acquiring Cliff Lee is a move with the World Series in mind…acquiring Sanchez and Garko is a move to stay in contention for as long as possible.
I hate to be a pessimist and with Timmy and Cain pitching like they are, we could win a title by winning 11 different 1-0 and 2-1 games but that seems pretty unlikely. So my move (if I were in Sabean’s shoes) would’ve been to stand pat unless there’s a great offer out there and he could fleece another GM. When’s the last time Sabean fleeced someone? Trading away Matt Morris’ contract or the Schmidt trade?
I really don’t think Alderson, with his projected ceiling as #4 or #5 starter, was going to be the centerpiece of any Giants dynasty.
If the Giants build a dynasty, it’ll be around guys like Lincecum, Cain, Pablo, Madbum, Posey, Villalona, Neal and Wheeler. Guys like Alderson, Barnes, Burriss, Gillespie, Rohlinger et all might end up being complimentary pieces, but our chances of a dynasty don’t hinge on any one of those guys.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Agreed…not the centerpiece but I think Alderson had more potential to be valuable contributor on a championship team than Sanchez does, given his age and contract. I also agree that our chance of a dynasty doesn’t hinge on players outside of Timmy, Cain and Pablo plus the top 3-5 prospects but it could hinge on whether Sabean continues to overpay for veterans in free agency and trade away valuable prospects for .75 on the $1.
who said his ceiling was a 4 or a 5?
I’m pretty sure no one in these parts every said “4 or 5” until he got traded
by NeifiChicken on Jul 31, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I should have been more clear. His ceiling on the Giants would be as a #4 or #5.
Here’s where this was discussed prior to him getting traded
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
And Garko should be hitting #4 in our lineup...
…but that doesn’t make him a legit cleanup hitter.
When you talk about projections, you’ve got to be talking in absolute terms, not relative to a particular rotation. The guy doesn’t become a better or worse pitcher based on who else is in the rotation.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Not scientific, but the poll on this site says people GENERALLY FAVOR the Alderson/FSanchy deal approx 2:1
The majority of comments on this fanshot are critical of the deal (in addition to having various criticisms of the original post, but I don’t care about that). But just a shade less than 2/3 of people on this site who responded to the poll about this deal ‘generally favor’ it.
People can agree/disagree in whole or in part with Sabean’s philosophy and his individual actions/inactions— that’s fine. And I am not here to defend him as such, but I do defend rationality and reason whenever I can, and there are just a lot of people on this site who have lost all sense of reason when it comes to this guy. Hey, I have done it with others (Marvin Benard, g.w.bush, and at least one guy I went to high school with probably still hear my screamed taunts when they try to sleep). But the man is not an idiot or crazy or uninformed. He has a different view, a different philosophy, different pressures— oh, and he is actually the one with the job.
He also — just maybe — has some information that we don’t have. And he has to balance a lot of considerations for the corporation that we completely ignore when we sit around playing Johnny/Janie Junior GM.
He “overpaid”? You don’t really know that. You don’t have any idea what he truly could have gotten Player X or Y for, that is, none of you really knows what the other team’s walkaway point was. You are each welcome, of course, to an opinion on “overpaid,” but recognize that you really don’t know what the participants’ demands were.
Now, instead of “overpaid” in the sense that Sabean paid more than he had to in order to obtain Player X, maybe you mean “overpaid” in the sense of gave a player to get a player who will ultimately prove less valuable to the team. Fine, so he made a skillful deal, but for a result that hurts us in the long run. Fine. Valid observation. But understand that for people in the baseball biz (esp. GM’s), their job is actually to make shit happen and get to the playoffs and market a team and put asses in the seats and so forth. It isn’t some fantasy league numberbation bullshit— it’s a corporation that has goals, constraints, limited chances, and owners with varying tolerances for risk and dynamic budgetary willingness.
I know this is long and rantish, and I apologize. I don’t think Sabean is a genius, but it undermines anyone’s argument when he or she just says that Sabean is an idiot and everything he does is wrong and senseless. He actually has the job and has to deal with all kinds of considerations that you don’t.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
My long and rantish original post deserved something long and rantish in return. I wish baseball was not influenced by business as much as it is but it is a multi-billion dollar industry and that’s just the reality. I may have been a little harsh on Sabean…I think a lot of my rage actually has more to do w/ Edgar Renteria than to Sabean. But they’re linked and will be for the next year and a half so I need to come to terms that and be a little more objective when looking at Sabean’s moves.
I’m going to the game tonight and hope we’ll see Sanchez play and contribute and Garko keep hitting line drives but ones that aren’t right at people. And of course a perfect game, 27 K outing from Timmy would be nice too…
“there are just a lot of people on this site who have lost all sense of reason when it comes to this guy. Hey, I have done it with others (Will Clark, Marvin Benard, g.w.bush, and at least one guy I went to high school with probably still hear my screamed taunts when they try to sleep).”
Fixed.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Aug 1, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Your voice of reason is a welcome addition
Sometimes I wonder if I’m the only one here that doesn’t think that they are smarter than Sabean or Bochy…
Thanks. Though you might actually be the only one who isn't sure he's smarter than Bochy.
Even I am sure you’re smarter than Bochy, and I don’t know you.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
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