Reaction: Freddy Sanchez Trade
by Grant on Jul 29, 2009 4:51 PM PDT
909 comments
Freddy Sanchez is an upgrade. The Giants have received less production from their second basemen than any other team has received out of any position. With Ryan Garko and Sanchez on the team, 20% of the lineup went from "yick" to "meh?", which is a pretty substantial move.
But this was an awful, stupid, and unbelievably short-sighted move. Bengie Molina is on pace to become one of the worst cleanup hitters in the last 50 years. Think about how special that is. A lot of people have stunk in the last half-century, but we're watching one of the greatest stinks in the history of stink. As such, a productive-for-his-position second baseman and a productive-for-his-new-team first baseman isn't the boiling water to our contending-flavored ramen. The Giants needed someone who would have pushed Molina out of the cleanup spot.
...but getting a real power hitter would have cost the Giants one of their top prospects... So went the refrain, and a lot of Giants fans were fine with that. Hey, Matt Holliday's a nice player, but we sure as heck aren't going to give up Tim Alderson for him. Like, pshaw. Find me a legitimate slugger that's available without giving up Madison Bumgarner, Angel Villalona, Buster Posey, or Alderson, and that's the move to make. That slugger doesn't exist? Well, then we'll just hang on to our top four prospects, thank you. The angriest of the angry -- the "Sabean had better trade for a bat or I am THROUGH with this team" types -- generally didn't have a name in mind; they were thinking of an archetype that wasn't available.
Sanchez is a nice player. Good defense. His one down year was probably due to a low BABIP. He's under contract through next year. Yeah, that's an upgrade worth trading for. But, good gravy, not with one of the more valuable trade chips in the system.
And I'm not the world's biggest Tim Alderson booster, either. He'd have to put a couple of ticks more on his fastball to really be an elite prospect, though his curve and control were already fantastic. I don't think he was the next Tim Lincecum, and I'm not even sure that he was the next Jason Marquis. What kills me, though, is that if the Giants were willing to trade Alderson, they could have traded for something they really needed. A hitter who knows how to get on base more than the average player, or a hitter with power. Sanchez is neither. He makes the lineup better, but, hey, you know who else would have made the lineup better? Felipe Lopez. You know, the guy whom the Brewers received for a couple of minor league tweaks. And then the Giants could have traded Alderson for another hitter. A Scott Barnes/Tim Alderson package wouldn't have been enough for Victor Martinez, but it would have been a heck of a start.
But we didn't really even think Martinez was a real possibility, as that would have meant that the Giants give up one of their best prospects. Heck, that wasn't going to happen.
The Giants are a better team today than they were yesterday. The Giants are still very, very, very unlikely to survive three playoff series with the current roster, and that's assuming that they even make the playoffs. Both things can be true. Don't try and talk yourself into this one. The only way this trade earns more than a D- is if the Giants keep their remaining prospects while adding someone who pushes Bengie Molina to the sixth or seventh spot in the lineup.
Another way the trade is a success is if the Giants win the World Series within the next two years. Then it will be the best trade ever. I'll just hold my breath for that one.
Dammit. I think that, other than Alderson's value as a trade chip being totally undersold, the thing that makes me the angriest right now is that I'm almost certain that the words ".300 hitter" kept rattling around in Brian Sabean's brain. "Can I really pass up a .300 hitter? For a pitching prospect? I mean, the pitching is strong right now, and there's only one .300 hitter on the team right now. Another .300 hitter would be worth, like, five more wins, at least." Using batting average to evaluate the worth of a hitter is like using an Apple II+ to do your taxes, and I'm almost sure it's going on in the Giants' front office. Just a guess, of course, but it's not as if there's any evidence to the contrary.
Also, I believe that the Giants overpaid for Freddy Sanchez. I'll cheer his at-bats, and I'm still excited to watch an improved team make a playoff run, but this is just...wow.
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Aurilia's positions are locked down with people who are actually GOOD.
Now retire.
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 4:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He can’t really play any position other than first anymore.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can’t really play any position other than first anymore.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Sabean keeps Aurilia and still thinks he could play, I will join the line of FIRE SABEAN!!!
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait, u didn't already join that line?
i did
by sfoakbay on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone remember that story about how Edgardo Alfonzo told Pablo Sandoval to sign with the Giants’ because of how they treat players? Perhaps this is why. Rich Aurilia was a good Giant, and theyr’e treating him with respect. They’ll keep him on the DL until it’s time to expand the roster, and then they’ll activate him. Maybe the next FA the Giants’ are after will notice that and want to play here.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 29, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta say, Rx, I’ve never heard that story at all. And frankly it makes no sense as Sandoval signed with us before Alfonzo did, so I’m not sure why Edgardo would have held such a high opinion of us at that point. Which isn’t to say that it’s not true at all. Just somewhat odd.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still makes no sense. Pablo signed with the Giants in 2002. Alfonzo was still a Met at that point.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong!
May 8, 2003: Signed by the San Francisco Giants as an amateur free agent.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sandopa01.shtml#trans
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 29, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sniff
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
by ejdacanay on Jul 29, 2009 4:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Gah.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 4:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
shucks
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 29, 2009 4:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Still waiting for KGB to call my all in
by jctGamer on Jul 29, 2009 4:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey.... but..... we swept the Pirates.....?
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain pitched 9 sho IP…no win, no sho = sad day
beating depleted Pirates = definition of MEH
by Giant Homer on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow…. this is not what I expected.
Everybody loves money
by fwoty oz on Jul 29, 2009 4:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
D':
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jul 29, 2009 4:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I know monthly splits are of questionable value due to sample size, but....
April: .337 / .374 / .570
May: .330 / .373 / .459
June: .282 / .321 / .427
July: .193 / .220 / .246
Um, yeah.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
July seems……. uhh…… Aurilia-esque?
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m waiting for GRM to show up and tell us we are all wrong!
by xanthan on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He agreed with the groupthink!
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Like Freddie Alot. That Said, Sabes Overpaid By More Then I Am Comforable With.
by giantsrainman on Jul 29, 2009 4:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wcw should approve, at least.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The end fo the world is nigh.
Let's bring the...
by Swager on Jul 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course his disapproval probably comes from the fact that he thinks Kevin Frandsen and Fred Lewis or something like that should have been enough to get this done
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And hey, Natto, could you adopt a Giant who sucks last year? Your guys keep getting traded before the deadline.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next season
TIM LINCECUM
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
D: D: D:
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You made me cry.
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of which
I know we all love sharksrog. But the fact that he holds the most beloved Giant as his adoptee and he never ever posts here any more makes me think that maybe, perhaps, Timmy should go to someone else?
That’s not me, by the way. I’m happy with Angel. That is, until Sabean trades him for a relief pitcher.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Jul 29, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just as well, Tim shouldn't be adopted
For he is a man dammit and Lincecum > all of us.
by Viva Jon Miller on Jul 29, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t here last year. Who did Natto adopt?
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Durham
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NATTO HURRY UP AND ADOPT ZITO.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a momentous day!
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
by oldjacket on Jul 29, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grant is pissed.
Dude, hide the good china.
Bengie: Like an Aurilia kidney stone, slow-moving and tough to get out.
by juanboy on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fact remains: The Giants have too many weak points in the line up for one or two hitters to make a difference. Kinda like having 4 pitchers spots that the opposing pitcher can use to get out of jams.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
not true...
as long as those two hitters were great hitters, which neither of the two guys we got are
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am thrilled to have Sanchez on the team…… I hate the fact that we gave up such a good prospect AND didn’t get any money back.
I mean Fuck… all this talk of the Pirates eating salary. What would we have had to of given up to see that happen.
I think this is a classic case of two GMs playing chicken and Sabaen blinked first.
by OTTOMATIC on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
don’t really care about the money… it’s not mine.
by jayreed13 on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabean blinked.
You nailed it. I like Freddie; he’ll improve the team. But Grant’s right: we needed a bat with pop and we’ve overpaid. Whatever happened to the rumors of Bowker, Frandsen and Guzman for Freddie? Made up by our wishful thinking?
Don't believe everything you think.
by wcovington on Jul 29, 2009 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sig changing time
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re way ahead of me
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SABEAN. YOU AND ME. PARKING LOT. AFTER SCHOOL.
I like cats. Wings is the greatest show of all time.
Tyler Graham is my favorite San Jose Giant because he has smart balls.
by Norm Median on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
From the Buc Dougout:
“I keep refreshing the Giants’ SB Nation blog, just to see how pissed off the Giants fans are about this! It’s making me happier than the actual trade itself!”
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRUMBLE GRUMBLE
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUC DUGOUT. YOU AND ME. BY THE OLD OAK TREE. AN HOUR AFTER SCHOOL GETS OUT.
I like cats. Wings is the greatest show of all time.
Tyler Graham is my favorite San Jose Giant because he has smart balls.
by Norm Median on Jul 29, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AT THE BALLPARK
IS NEXT WEEK AGAINST THE PHILLIES GOOD FOR YOU?
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I GOTTA SHUFFLE A FEW THINGS FIRST
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let them be happy. Sixteen straight losing seasons and continually watching their best players get traded away. Tim Alderson is going to lead them to the promised land?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 29, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His arm will fall off at the shoulder before that happens
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like the Pirates fans really like their new GM. He’s made a bunch of trades this year and seems to have done well.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also picked Tony Sanchez high the first round, though.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a BC guy and I still think that was dumb. Tony is good, but no way was he one of the 10 best players available.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabes for their Gm, whatever his name is. STRAIGHT UP!
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
It’s a horrible trade, and it gives us all yet another horrifying look under the skull of Brian Sabean. This is how the guy thinks: All-Star! .300 hitter! Proven veteran bat! And for that we give up a guy who could be terrific.
Foster for Duffy level trade? We won’t know for a few years. Anderson for Bagwell? It has that potential. But even without that level of angst, it’s bad.
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I suppose the unanswerable question is ...
… as Grant mentioned, why the Giants didn’t get someone better if they were going to trade Alderson.
Still, the Giants just improved their chances of making the playoffs this year, and once into the playoffs any team has a good chance of winning. So you could argue that Sanchez measurably improved the Giants’ chances of winning the World Series this year. (2% is measurable.)
by Bad Horse on Jul 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
/whinny!
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody here knows what the Giants’ could have gotten for Alderson. We’ve all heard the list of players the Giants’ were talking about, and I believe that any player on that list better than Sanchez probably got a call from Sabean offering Alderson and turned it down.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 29, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But some of these people didn’t want Alderson traded at all.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know it’s bad when no one feels like rosterbating
We just traded who for who?!
by BawLa on Jul 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Couldn’t we have put barnes and alderson together to get a really good bat….Vmart maybe.
by jayreed13 on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My guess is that V-Mart would cost something to the tune of Alderson, Barnes, Neal/Villalona, and some C+ level arms from short-season…
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering what the Indians got for Lee and Francisco
by quincy0191 on Jul 29, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is Alderson, Barnes and Neal are equivalent to the prospects the Phillies gave up.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering what the Indians got for Lee and Francisco
Thing is Alderson, Barnes and Neal are equivalent to the prospects the Phillies gave up.
Totally agree. Victor would have been GREAT and worth the price!
Don't believe everything you think.
by wcovington on Jul 29, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know. I’m pretty high on Neal. I’ll take that trade in a heartbeat if Posey isn’t in the system. So much of V-Mart’s value is tied up in him being a catcher.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn’t Sabean come out recently and clearly say the Indians wanted Bumgarner for Martinez?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 29, 2009 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think so. I can’t keep all of the rumors straight.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Na, the Phillies gave up way more talent than those three guys. Their #2, #3, #4 guys and a guy considered a young Papelbon
by m34josh on Jul 29, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
They kept their 3 best prospects and Happ
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They they were the 2/3/4 guys entering the year. Now they’re merely top 10.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, at least Fat Princess for PS3 comes out tomorrow.
Will offset my pain and suffering I have experienced today.
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
by ejdacanay on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OOH yeah! I’m getting that too can’t wait.
by SeeingStars on Jul 29, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s like Sabes zeroed in on Sanchez and couldn’t explore other options. Maybe the Pirates being here at the trading deadline was the worst thing that could have happened. Instead of exploring other possibilities, Sabes just poked and prodded Freddy until he decided that it would just be bad manners to not make the deal.
Bengie: Like an Aurilia kidney stone, slow-moving and tough to get out.
by juanboy on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that’s not true. If he was so zeroed in on Sanchez, how’d he tear himself away to make the Garko trade? Why did we hear rumors on Martinez, Nick Johnson, Halladay, Rios, Willingham, Scutaro, Teahen, etc. At the end of the day, after doing due diligence and kicking some tires, Sanchez was the best he could do for Alderson. And even though this will probably get me in trouble, I have invested a lot in Jesus Guzman, following him boxscore by boxscore in the winter leagues and at Fresno, and even though I don’t see a spot for him, my biggest fear is him going to Pittsburgh and becoming a star, much better than Ryan Garko. I’m glad he’s still here, but I just can’t get torn up about Alderson and his Zito fastball going elsewhere. Get Guzman an outfielder’s glove and start hitting him flyballs. He can’t be worse than Freddie Lewis!
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 29, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a salary dump, rx! Pittsburgh had to move the salary. The whole point of a salary dump is that you don’t have to give up anything — you just take on the salary. Why is this so difficult to understand?
Yes, I’m glad he’s here. But why go out of our way to overpay for him? That’s a valuable chip we now can’t use somewhere else. It’s just throwing away value.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grant, my feelings exactly
Using Alderson & a couple other decent prospects could have netted a good hitter. If you add a Felipe Lopez and a Ryan Garko to a lineup with a good hitter, and suddenly the offense seems mediocre. Ah, mediocre.
Am I the only one that secretly hopes he’s not done, holding out hope he can add an impact bat?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How would he get said impact bat now? What is left to trade? That seems to be the thing, even if Alderson isn’t good or doesn’t end up being good, right now the perception is that he IS good, so I believe they should have gotten more in return.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn’t tear me apart inside to trade Villalona for an elite bat in the right package.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I agree, but even I can see that he needs some serious work. He is young but, if I were a GM I would have serious misgivings about going after him.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turd sandwich for GM!
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, remember when the one positive in our system was minor league pitching depth? Yeah.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
how many do you need? Pucetas, Martinez, Sosa, Bumgarner, the brothers Bucardo, Tanner, our number one draft choice, and I’m probably missing a few. The purpose of accumulating all that pitching WAS to turn them into some bats at some point. Sooner or later some of them had to go for some hitters. You might not like who they got, but they still have plenty of pitchers.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 29, 2009 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the arizona kid from this years draft is supposed to be a good bullpen arm as well.
by Bryappie on Jul 29, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are serious questions about Sosa’s health. Pucetas is a fifth starter at best. Martinez too.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa is hurt. If everything works out with Pucetas and Martinez they are 5th starters. Bucardo Bros are a loooong way away and Tanner is a middling prospect.
by xanthan on Jul 29, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with most of this, but the Buccardo bros (or your own Short Season hypothetical wunderkind of choice) would only be one or two years away from where Barnes and Alderson are currently.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, they would be 4-5 years away? That’s a long time.
by xanthan on Jul 29, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’ll have to update your processor speed.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really wish we could still add Willingham….. but what would he cost now?
I think we have just set the market for what all our other prospects are worth, and not in a good way!
by OTTOMATIC on Jul 29, 2009 5:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am frightened what it would cost for Sabean
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I wonder what it would cost now, I read they would be asking for a lot. He fits into Sabean’s non rent-a-player philosophy
A lineup of
CF: Rowand
2B: Sanchez
3B: Sandoval
LF: Willingham
1B: Garko
C: Posey
RF: Schierholtz
SS: Renteria
Looks good to me next year. Not to mention it would give us a legit offense this year and a better chance. If we could get it done without Bumgarner/Posey/Villalona (now the big 3) I’d do it.
I’d offer Neal/Lewis/Bond for Willingham, dunno if that would work. Bond has an out of control OBP this year, i know nothing about his D.
Keeping on SWOOPing in the free world! Also, by the reflexive property of the rubber/glue playground comeback, I enjoy wearing hats on my ass.
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jul 29, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bond is not in the same league as Neal or Lewis. Dude profiles to be a utility IF with the upside of Luis Castillo.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that lineup too
I just think it would cost too much to acquire Willingham. As others have stated, the FO situation in Washington is a mess. Plus, they are asking for way too much for their players. They wanted Jonathan Sanchez for Nick Johnson for pete’s sake!
I think if we traded for Willingham, we would have to give up some pitching and some type of hitter. Brad Snyder or Joaquin plus Lewis/Bowker might be a good starting point, but I’d imagine Washington would want a lot more unfortunately.
by Squire_Boone on Jul 29, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we’re gonna overpay for Sanchez, then we’re gonna have to overpay for Willingham, too.
by Squire_Boone on Jul 29, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PABLO AND LINCECUM FOR NICK JOHNSON
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
6:19pm: Kovacevic says that no money is being exchanged in the Sanchez deal, which makes it all the more impressive for the Pirates. Keith Law (Insider) recently ranked the 20-year-old Alderson the 26th-best prospect in all of baseball.
/sobs
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He wasnt 26th
He was first alphabetically in the next 25. (26-50)
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DON’T CONFUSE ME WITH THE FACTS.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yeah, 26th is high
But he was around 60th on some lists last year, and he’s had a very good run in AA, so 26th isn’t entirely ridiculous.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would guess in the 40’s
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See above
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even so that’s too high.
It’s not like he’s Kyle Drabek or Jake Arrieta or Chris Tillman or Brian Matusz.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, Im not disagreeing
Im saying he would be at the back of Law’s list, rather than near the top
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of said list
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
26th but in AA ball?
That means that out of all the AAA hitters and pitchers, this kid was the 26th best?
If he’s that good, why didn’t the Giants bring him up?
by Slappyfrog on Jul 29, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was first alphabetically in the next 25. (26-50)
On a questionable list
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AAA is not necessarily better than AA. AAA is where most of the washed up guys go to try and make the club. AA and A advanced is where most of the top prospects are at but of course there are exceptions.
by Josh L on Jul 29, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, we went over this, didnt we?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kovacevic missed the memo
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know who Keith Law is, but he can KISS MY ASS.
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d love to see Law’s list because that’s ridiculous. Alderson isn’t even in the top 50.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hi, Jeff Francoeur.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Keith Law hate is idiotic
He’s a smart guy and a good analyst; just because he points out the blinding stupidity of our front office and its maneuvers is no reason to blame the messenger.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 29, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not idiotic when he says some really stupid things sometimes based on little firsthand observation of a player. He is way too subjective in his opinions on a lot of players.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
More or less mad if Villalona was given up?
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
probably about the same.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe a bit more
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
more
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
less
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in the minority
But less… just because I don’t think Villalona is going to be anything more than an average player while I think Tim is going to be an above-average starter.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More. Villalona has a far greater upside and hasn’t even scratched the surface of their talent. Alderson has a low ceiling but much higher floor, but I don’t think it was good enough that he would have been able to break into the rotation with Zito, Cain and Lincecum here and Sanchez and Mad Bum pegged for the other 2 spots.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
…because Jonathan Sanchez is such a sure thing?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 29, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to play Devil's Advocate
Whatever happened to “The Giants are more than one good hitter away from being a playoff team”?
I don’t really think just getting one good cleanup hitter would have made us too much of a stronger team. We needed some upgrades across the board, and thats what we got.
by GrooveGiant on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
but you get “minor upgrades across the board” with middling to good prospects. The 26th best prospect in baseball is a great prospect.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See above…not true
26th best prospect in baseball is a great prospect
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right so trading for a quasi good hitter is the answer???
by cazzuno on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The smart people...
said several times that we are THREE hitters away. Look it up. Also going from .700 to ,750 is not enough of an upgrade to really consider having acquired a hitter.
by Kestrel76 on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So now unless Sanchez’s knee acts up (ha ha lol fail trade!), the Giants infield is set for this year and next (with Garko arbitration eligible for three more years?). Molina is not signed for next year. LF and RF are up in the air. I agree with Grant that this team is not going anywhere this year. So next year, the Giants can make upgrades at C, LF, and RF and be WS contenders? Because obviously this trade is for this year and next. I just don’t see it. They have traded two of their better pitching prospects for one guy who will not be here after 2010, and another who they might not want to offer arbitration to. I just don’t see the plan here.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lots of contracts expiring too (Roberts, Winn, Molina, Lowry) and given the OF depth (Bowker, Schierholtz, Torres, shudder Velez, Lewis) and considering Posey should be starting in 2010 I don’t see any reason to add FA. Especially considering we’re going to have to pay Timmeh the big bucks.
by quincy0191 on Jul 29, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have to do something to add offense. We have to take advantage of the Cain/Lincecum window while it’s here and we just don’t have the offense to do that right now. One of the OF spots, 1B or 3B need to be devoted to an impact bat this winter. I should say at least 1. Then add Posey, whichever of the lefty OFs prove to deserve a spot — but somewhere there has to be addition of power.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you look at the FA list for next year it’s not good, especially for power-hitting outfielders. Most of the potentials on that list look like they’ll resign with the teams that already have them or won’t sign at all. Many aren’t even close to worth the money they’d want.
I’d be very surprised if we didn’t retain Garko; my understanding is that a large part of why we got him is because of his contract status. Sanchez obviously isn’t going anywhere next year, and if you want to cut Pablo….
Rowand is the starting CF, there’s no question about that. RF should definitely be taken by either Schierholtz or Bowker (preferably Schierholtz), and that only leaves LF and C open. Acquiring a power-hitting C is going to be nearly impossible; V-Mart is the only guy available, and due to the dearth of good-hitting C’s and the fact that Posey will be ready by 2011 at the absolute latest, we don’t want the long-term contract one of those players would require. And like I said, we don’t want/can’t get any of the other OFs. I think any signing is just going to hurt us in the long run.
by quincy0191 on Jul 29, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hah, no. No way. Bringing Molina back would be a huge mistake. Sign some other journeyman catcher, please.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Rod Barajas a FA after this year? I could stand him for 2 months until Posey was ready.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too. If Bengie is fine with being a stop-gap that doesn’t hit fourth, great. Unfortunately, neither side (Bengie or Bochy) would accept that situation.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Offer him arbitration
We either keep him for one more year, or get a pick.
by Suckabus on Jul 29, 2009 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DO NOT WANT! The guy is one of the three worst regulars in all of the majors. His OBP is ~.270. That’s effing awful. He is an awful hitter and a bad defensive catcher. Get him gone.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get rid of Bengie
Have Bochy get the gear on!!!!
PLAYER/MANAGER!!!
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any addition of power is going to have to come from the corner OF spots. I still like Willingham, but I don’t think we’re gonna get him this year. Due to his favorable contract status and the intractable nature of the Nats GM, I doubt we could get him in the offseason either. At least, not at a reasonable price.
by Squire_Boone on Jul 29, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, there IS no Nats GM. Also, weirdly enough Jim Bowden is still buddying around with Ted Lerner’s sons and apparently worming into their ear. It’s just a screwed up situation. i can imagine trying to deal with them near impossible at this point.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From everything I’ve read, trying to deal with them is impossible. They are overvaluing their players. This is a team that should be in fire sale mode, but they are acting like they are a .500 team.
by Squire_Boone on Jul 29, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This seems appropriate here after the trade today...
by jctGamer on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Poor kid has to go play for the Pirates. (No offense)
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, the Giants are the ones with an offense.
by xanthan on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez, my bad
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All o’ y’all look alike!
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s Zack I believe.
Original member of the Van Buren Boys
by NuschlerFace on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never seen an up close pick of him, huh
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was supposed to be a quick signing
by superk1ng on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bumgarner
Sosa
Clark
Wheeler
…who else we got still?
We just traded who for who?!
by BawLa on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bumgarner and Wheeler. That’s it in the Top-10.
by xanthan on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we still have Ramon Ortiz?
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the younger Buccardo might be close to the top 10.
by superk1ng on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SHINGO TAKATSU
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m wondering what our top 10 pitching prospect list looks like without Alderson and Barnes
We just traded who for who?!
by BawLa on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Bumgarner
2. Wheeler
3. Pucetas
4. /shoots self
by xanthan on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. MadBum
2. Wheeler
3. 2010 draft pick
4. 2011 draft pick
5. /shoots self
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
id relax
your 5th starter is throwing no hitters
zito bumgarner, cain and lincecum are set for the next 3 years
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 29, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don’t really have much of a 5th starter at the moment., actually. And barring another FA signing I’m not sure I see a big improvement coming in that regard next year either. Gotta hope Joey Martinez or Kevin Pucetas can get big league hitters out.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Morris?
He’s a veteran with a track record?
by FireBrianSabean on Jul 29, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just wait until Noah Lowry is healthy and comes back!!!!
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we were talking about minor leagues...
but while on the topic, Sanchez will have to throw another no-hitter to be throwing “no-hitters”
Bud Smith has a no hitter as well, it’s fun, but it doesn’t mean that much
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Xanthan, how could you possibly forget J. Bucardo?!
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
take out Clark
Put in a Buccardo bro (probably Jorge)
Also I’d bet on one of King/Surkamp/Verdugo taking a setp forward next year.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I’d also bet on a one or two of the short season pitchers (non-Buccardo division) making their way onto BA’s end of the year reports
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bumgarner
JORGE!
Wheeler
bunch o’ other guys
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh and I like Eric Surkamp. Others like Clayton Tanner. Mostly power armed relievers after that.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good call on Tanner. Sosa probably belongs in my top 5 pitcher list
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa’s health status is unknown at the moment — that’s my pause in regard to him.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah =(
I’m a huge Sosa fanboy so I’m still holding out some hope. But in all likelihood he’s going the Merkin route.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d also consider Camb Lamb and Edward Encarnacion depending on their end of year scouting report.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Camb Lamb is like Nicholson last year — a man playing among boys so there’s nothing really that you can get out of his stats. Encarnacion looks to have some tools but he’s like the RafRod of pitchers (without the glamour or the contract) — very young and raw as hell.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clayton Tanner
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jul 29, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I happen to like this trade...
As a NY resident who went down to Connecticut to see Alderson pitch, I have to tell you that in my opinion he didnt exactly have overpowering stuff…Now I know I am far from a scout but I just have to relay what I saw in person…He had a below average fastball, with a ++ curve and decent location but was hardly blowing away the opposition… I think Sabean could have gotten more for Alderson simply based on his “reputation” but in my humble opinion I see Alderson no better than Ryan Vogelsong….
We had to upgrade our weakest position and for that we had to trade away an area where we had strength….Sabean is still an ass in my opinion but under the circumstances this is a ++ trade (assuming the Giants medical staff know what they are talking about, which is a whole other story)
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you and me both went all in apparently….
by jctGamer on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big question it seems is how Alderson was valued by other organizations. The assumption by most seems to be that he was valued highly. I’m not sure that’s true.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he isn’t, then it’s probably more prudent to hold onto him and hope his ++control translates to a major league rotation.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Jul 29, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alderson is a great prospect because having plus control at his age is rare. Given the curveball, and assuming the fastball will develop (which is not by any means unreasonable) once he gets older and stronger (he’s only 20) puts him with plus control and a good fastball and plus change. That’s damned good and certainly worth more than Freddy Sanchez.
by quincy0191 on Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know the Red Sox just gave up 2 players who weren’t in their Top 30 this year (nor going to be in their Top 30 next year) for Adam LaRoche. The Braves gave up a Gorkys Hernandez whose rep is in serious decline and nothing for Nate McLouth. It’s not about what we think of Tim Alderson. Look at what the market is bearing. There’s just no way Freddy Sanchez was that much more of a trade chip than LaRoche or McLouth. No way.
And, as John Hart was going on ad nauseum about today, trade deadlines come down frequently to simple point, we pick up the money and give you a stiff, or you pick up the money and we give you a decent player. We overpaid both ways.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roger,
I thought you’d appreciate this more than anyone else…
Bobby Felmy came into the game tonight after Broshius pitched 2/3 of an inning and gave up 4 runs.
This may take a while.
by GiantsTribe on Jul 29, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So glad my wife’s leaving town tomorrow morning made me skip coming out tonight.
Wow — Broshuis, huh? He just started on Sunday. Why not bring in English on 4 days rest rather than Broshuis on 2? Pretty clear message to the guy that he’s just a piece of meat, I’d say. I can’t wait to read his next diary piece on BA.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So glad my wife’s leaving town tomorrow morning made me skip coming out tonight.
yeah!!!! wait until the old bal and chain is out of town and then let THE BOYS COME OVER AND PLAY!!!! roger you dirty dawg.
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That scouting report of Alderson looks just like a scouting report of Adam Wainwright
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by Player To Be Named Later on Jul 29, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, there’s a long list of pitchers who do well in the majors with fastballs around 90: Wainwright, Lackey, Shields, Harang, Jered Weaver, Kevin Slowey, even Dan Haren…. they get by with a diverse repertoire and outstanding control.
by Evan on Jul 29, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What frustrates me to no end is seeing other GMs make creative trades to get a valuable player, like for example giving up Andy LaRoche and a decent minor league pitcher, and turning that into Manny Ramirez. I don’t know much about who the Phillies gave up to land Cliff Lee, but it seems they had a few guys they didn’t want to lose for him, and they still got a really good pitcher. So why are the Giants so bad these days at making creative, valuable trades? I ask, because I don’t know.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
GIANTS ONLY DO ONE FOR ONE TRADES!!!
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone knows the Giants are desperate for a bat ?
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
by nvsfg on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s the position from which I’d start, if I were an opposing GM, absolutely.
it’s true. and it’s widely understood.
"I would've been here sooner but I had to shake the Veleasels"
by The Gene Hackman on Jul 29, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Phillies are desperate for pitching yet they still got Lee without giving Happ, Drabek, Brown or Taylor. Impressive.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and they gave up Carasco (spelled wrong) who is equivalent to alderson imo
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok but Lee and Sanchez are nowhere near equal
Tim is good enough for 2
by ktice on Jul 30, 2009 2:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But your opinion is way outside of the bell curve. Scouting community doesn’t agree with you at all. Thus one of the quotes heard around after the deal (noted in the Fangraphs article) was, “so the best pitching prospect traded today doesn’t go for Cliff Lee. Good job, Cleveland.”
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 30, 2009 4:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well madbum:alderson::drabek:carrasco
unfortunately cliff lee is worth a cockload more than freddy sanchez.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jul 29, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and our two guys are (were) better than their two.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jul 29, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hope this doesn’t hurt our chances to sign Tommy Joseph
by jayreed13 on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+ a million
was going to add that to my rant in progress (below)
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alex Rios, still a possibility?
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
by ejdacanay on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Can you imagine what Sabes would give up THEN?
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s why I’m scurred
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
by ejdacanay on Jul 29, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I'll give it a shot
The Giants’ second basemen have hit .229/.285/.318 this season. Sanchez, if he finishes the season hot, is a two or three win upgrade. Alderson doesn’t have a great strikeout rate. Uh, I thought Vogelsong was a better prospect, and look how that turned out.
Crap, I’m not good at this. Ah, hell, I’m all-in. Start printing those playoff tickets.
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
by antinous on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez would have to hit .500 and slug around 1.000 to be a 2-3 win upgrade over the next two months.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on Jul 29, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your 2010 Giants!
C: Buster Posey
1B: Ryan Garko
2B: Freddy Sanchez
SS: Edgar Renteria (ugh)
3B: Pablo Sandoval
LF: Not Fred Lewis
CF: Aaron Rowand
RF: Nate Schierholtz?
by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Where’s Epicgenio?
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1st half – Bowker +Lewis
2nd half – Neal
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
by oldjacket on Jul 29, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neal
invited to camp, shines, and we pick up aurilia for another year and start him in left, his range at 3rd and 1st is lacking.
by Bryappie on Jul 29, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sad but true
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps Matt Holliday in LF and Scutaro in SS?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jul 29, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love how nobody is planning on acquiring a power hitter in a little thing called Free Agency
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
because there are none
unless you like Holliday(ugh)
by superk1ng on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? There will be no power hitters in FA huh? Riiiight
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
find one
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html
and don’t say Jason Bay – Redsox are probably going to resign him
by superk1ng on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make a compelling argument. Tell me more about these power hitters who are there.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
just pop a natty ice and look at it again, man
Kevin Pucetas lurks in the shadows, waiting for his time to shine.
by Sammy Danger on Jul 29, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I believe you, guy!
You’re obviously correct. I’m just curious, you know… Who THEY are.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Name them. Please. Senor.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Translation… You have no idea.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love how nobody is planning on acquiring a power hitter in a little thing called Free Agency
Please review the statement your whole argument is based off of. And please, don’t confuse free agency with trades.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I apologize for not having a list of 2010 FAs or wanting to peruse the list. I would rather talk out of my ass and then backtrack. Is this not a fanboard? When did we get so phukin serious?
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On this board
You’d damn well better have the wherewithall to back up whatever blanket statement you’ve made, because other people here HAVE done their research.
I’ve made similar mistakes here.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
please tell me you’re trolling
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jul 29, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The angriest of the angry — the “Sabean had better trade for a bat or I am THROUGH with this team” types — generally didn’t have a name in mind; they were thinking of an archetype that wasn’t available.
by Grant on Jul 29, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Extreme lol
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calm down CALM DOWN CALM THE FUCK DOWN MAN DONT GET ALL CRAZY ON US
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jul 29, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good word “archetype”
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
rick aurilia will be a FA!!!
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Roberts too!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Jul 29, 2009 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that like Palin and what newspapers she reads?
“They are there” isn’t the same as “______, _______, and _ are available and sign-able”
by dprodigy19 on Jul 29, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
MANNY!!!
Insanity is just a state of mind.
by giants9107 on Jul 29, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're delusional
Also, I looked at that list and realized “OMFG we’re gonna sign Ankiel to a 5 year 70 million dollar contract”
by Kestrel76 on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If FA started tomorrow then that would be the list but you never know who will become available. Somebody big always does.
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahahaha what.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big names that were available, like the 35 and over crowd, obviously. Like how the A’s paid a song for Jason Giambi, and the ROI has been outstanding!
At least, that’s what I see when I look at that list. A whole lotta DO NOT WANT.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats the whole list
There arent secret free agents
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giants sign James Bond
Will play left field and wear #07
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes that was the joke.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needs two 0’s. Bond James Bond won’t wear only one zero.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless we're talking about the Yomiuri Giants...
MLB usually doesn’t allow 3 digits on a uniform. Man you guys are the worst audience ever. Jeez.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bond James Bond would MAKE them let him wear three numbers.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And then seduce them
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bond would totally bang Selig.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
secret Free Agent man, secret… Free Agent man…
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed
"OMFG we’re gonna sign Ankiel Andruw Jones to a 5 year 70 million dollar contract"
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Jul 29, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me more.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
20mil+ a year on Matt Holliday just seems like a bad idea, I don’t know.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FA is slim pickings next year. I really doubt we can get Holliday or Bay…
by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of curiosity...
who are the FAs next year.
Also, I don’t find it likely we are going to have that much money to spend (Lincecum arb, Zito, Sanchez option)
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a whole lot of Ewwwww
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
by nvsfg on Jul 29, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think Buster is ready?
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don’t be a buster
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know he has ability, but he is pretty young, isn’t he? I worry about guys who how have never had much failure.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I worry about those guys too. everyone needs more failure. and pain.
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
C: Buster Posey
1B: Ryan Garko
2B: Freddy Sanchez
SS: Edgar Renteria
3B: Pablo Sandoval
LF: Barry Bonds
CF: Aaron Rowand
RF: Nate Schierholtz
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
by ejdacanay on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bonds could still hit 40 hr, hells yeah.
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about Posey leading off…
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Edgar hitting cleanup…
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 29, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you idiots
that’s not a batting order, just a list of all the positions in order
I choose to watch the Giants try to score runs. Not because it is easy, but because it is hard.
by GiantPain on Jul 29, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lulz
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Falling....Falling....
You fell….far, far down
/insert appropriate picture please
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 29, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jul 29, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta say
This one is hurting way, deep down.
Like when you sit on a chair thinking there’s a whoopie cushion on it, only instead it’s a butt plug.
Matt Cain: Duck and Cover
by mjrboredom on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How many times has that happened to you? If it is more than once, I recommend looking before you sit, or metal underpants. Both have worked for me.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
After the first time I made it abundantly clear to my mother that the joke was NOT funny.
Matt Cain: Duck and Cover
by mjrboredom on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actual LOL !
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
by nvsfg on Jul 29, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as opposed to fake lol
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jul 29, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
aka an inward chortle
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Freddy Sanchez offers us the same extension he offered the Pirate… I guess I’m almost ok with it.
No. No I’m not. But it’ll take the sting out of things a bit.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
by MonkeyChow on Jul 29, 2009 5:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
sanchez offers extension
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/knows Sabean is a bottom
Tim is good enough for 2
by ktice on Jul 30, 2009 2:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Le sigh.
I’m calming down, but now at this point, I’m starting to feel like it’s playoffs or bust. Damn we’ve come a long way from the beginning of the season.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
with these two small moves, still thinking bust.
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs are looking scary right now. I think they’re our competition.
Brewers are below .500 now. Florida and Atlanta will kill each other and the Rockies will cool off.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wheels will fall off of the cubs within the next 2 months.
they’ll fall off of the giants too (do we have wheels?)
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Florida and Atlanta will kill each other and the Rockies will cool off.
Which is why we should have worked harder for Uggla, the kind of bat we actually need.
Don't believe everything you think.
by wcovington on Jul 29, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Marlins have delusions of grandeur and have to pacify a fanbase that just approved a new ballpark.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They already have broken ground on the new park.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
still, small ugrade though. but very small.
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so small
I like cats. Wings is the greatest show of all time.
Tyler Graham is my favorite San Jose Giant because he has smart balls.
by Norm Median on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
small. small.
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chinpokomon!
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TRY TO BOMB DE HARBOR!!!
Matt Cain: Duck and Cover
by mjrboredom on Jul 29, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
We went from having awesome pitching and shitty offense to great pitching w/o Johnson and less shitty offense.
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it's playoffs or bust
they’re going to need to make another move
by superk1ng on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to make the playoffs
If we make the playoffs, Sabean keeps his job. i want us to lose lose lose. i want us to finish last in the NL West. I want Sabean fired, and if it means pissing away this season, I’m willing to take that psychic hit. i want Freddy Sanchez to blow out his knee Friday night. i want Ryan Garko to go 0 for his next 30. I want Sabean gone. Whatever that requires.
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’re not a giantsfan4life josh
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look we just went from no chance to win to a 1 % chance to win
But either way, we’ll be competitive enough that Sabean keeps his job. Which means we’ll never win, ever, in my lifetime or yours.
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bochy will win manager of the year too, you forgot that part
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the Giants so much I'll fucking kill them!
That’s how much I love them!
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's totally the logic from "I, Robot"
Killing the human race to ensure their survival, baby
by dprodigy19 on Jul 29, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, read this comment a couple minutes ago and I’m still giggling.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
if anyone thinks these two moves will push this team towards a playoff run, i dunno boutcha
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they were just salary dumping? Goddammit.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
by MonkeyChow on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that’s what sabean said
"I would've been here sooner but I had to shake the Veleasels"
by The Gene Hackman on Jul 29, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was actually going to write up a fan post on this, but here goes instead
Lets start with the obvious: Freddy Sanchez is a good player. For the Giants, he is no doubt a significant offensive improvement, and he makes this team better this year. The problem, as is always the problem with Sabean, is the price – he overpaid drastically for a guy the Pirates were not going to retain next year.
Player A (at time of deal): 29 year old, hitting .305/.368/.416; has a wOBA of .343
- free agent at the end of the season, making $3.5M; acquiring team picks up about ~$1M in salary. UZR has him about +5/150 runs at 2b this year.
- traded for a 20 year old Low-A ball reliever (with good stuff), and a 25 year old AAA outfielder hitting 242/.332/.424 while playing LF. Needless to say, neither player sniffed the top 100 prospect list anywhere, and neither was on the top 10 of the average farm system of the acquiring team.
Player B: 31 year old, .296/.334/.442, has a wOBA of .336
- free agent at the end of the season if he doesn’t get 600 PA’s; if he does, a $8M option gets triggered, that his team wants no part of. Is being paid $7M this year, so acquiring team picked up about ~$2.5M in salary. UZR has him about +6/150 runs at 2b for this year.
- traded for a 20 year old in AA (making him one of the youngest pitches in the league) , who was the youngest pitcher in the CAL league (and lead the league in ERA) last year. This year, he had a 14/46 BB/K ratio in 73 IP, and a 3.47 ERA. The declining K-rate is certainly worrysome, but his age has to be taken into consideration. The player was rated #60 by BP, #29 by Jonathan Mayo (guestimating here – can’t find his list), #45 by BA. Taking the average, lets say he was a top 50 prospect.
In what world do you make this deal? It can reasonably be argued that Felipe Lopez, (aka player A), is a more valuable player than Sanchez; his OBP would be a significant boon for a team that ranks dead last in the NL in the category. Unlike Sanchez, his OBP is not BA dependent, and he is younger and cheaper. But what kills me is once again, Sabean’s complete and total inabiilty to recognize the OBP issue, and his willing to overplay for discredited value measures (BA and “ALL STAR”). I wish I had any evidence to suggest the Giants consider advanced metrics, or noted that the team has a huge sinkhole at C; but I don’t; all evidence suggests that they look at BA, RBI, and pixie dust.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Good post. Sure, it makes me cry. But good post.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
by MonkeyChow on Jul 29, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm already there
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 29, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
look, go back to the ESPN boards
I get it, you don’t do anything beyond BA.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 29, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felipe Lopez was also a great off season sign for the D-backs. i don’t know where Sabean was on him and Hudson.
I do know that the D-backs thought he wasn’t putting in enough effort- but who really is on that team?
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may want to re-post this tomorrow, cause it is all crazy all the time here. But I took the time and looked up Lopez, and I basically agree with you, and we could have gotten him for Fred Lewis or something. He wouldn’t have been a world-beater, but neither is Sanchez.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, people like me are behind the outrage
But yeah, thought about it
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 29, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You also could've had Lopez for an extra month of the season
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by Player To Be Named Later on Jul 29, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Food for thought: Greg Papa actually knows a bit more than the average talking head.
Agree? Disagree?
Billy Ripken is not a fuck face
by Karlifornia on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, depends on the sport, I guess.
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
alot more then Bip, and bip played
by kvdp12 on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
shit, your dog knows more than Bip
that’s not a threshold now, is it?
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 29, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DISAGREE +1,000,000. FUCK. HIM.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Jul 29, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Matt Cain's ERA better than Haren's yet?
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 5:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. Haren’s at 2.19. Cain’s at 2.12.
by shark94112 on Jul 29, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the part that really kills me
Dammit. I think that, other than Alderson’s value as a trade chip being totally undersold, the thing that makes me the angriest right now is that I’m almost certain that the words “.300 hitter” kept rattling around in Brian Sabean’s brain. “Can I really pass up a .300 hitter? For a pitching prospect? I mean, the pitching is strong right now, and there’s only one .300 hitter on the team right now. Another .300 hitter would be worth, like, five more wins, at least.” Using batting average to evaluate the worth of a hitter is like using an Apple II+ to do your taxes, and I’m almost sure it’s going on in the Giants’ front office. Just a guess, of course, but it’s not as if there’s any evidence to the contrary.
I honestly believe this is all that Sabean evaluated. I don’t think he understands anything beyond this.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 29, 2009 5:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Still “meh” to me. I guess either Sabean thought less of Alderson than people here, he thinks of Sanchez as really good or he really is stupid.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 5:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I really can't say
I’m at the point where its hard to believe any scouts or media about prospects……the success rate is just too low to go too crazy about any particular guys (outside of the obvious studs like Bumgarner putting up goofy numbers).
Conceptually, you’d like to get more than Sanchez for a top-50 prospect. And the Giants still can’t hit so unless there’s another trade I question the wisdom of the deal in general. But as far as trading Alderson, not TOO shook up about it……was very surprised to see the name but it wore off quickly enough.
by Stoned Slacker on Jul 29, 2009 5:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Only Sabean can shit on the one guy I really wanted..Fuck you Sabes
by DFAAurillia on Jul 29, 2009 5:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously. Sanchez was the one guy I really wanted and now I’m not too excited about getting him.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we get the extension, we could be looking at 10 wins over 3. whatever years for 25 millionish…
Is that worth Tim Alderson? Eh. Maybe.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
by MonkeyChow on Jul 29, 2009 5:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If we don’t he’s a type A right?
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think so. The compensation could net us something close to Alderson.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
by MonkeyChow on Jul 29, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, no.
If his option doesn’t vest (which it almost certainly will, unless his knee really is bad), and if the Giants offer him arbitration (which they won’t) and if Sanchez declines said arb offer (which he won’t), and signs with another team, then the Giants would get the type A compensation.
So, yeah, the Giants are not getting any picks for Sanchez, at least not this year.
by taliesin on Jul 29, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the option is going to vest
he’s here next year for $8 million. We can just end the discussion there
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, no one can really say when he’s going to get back on the field. So…there’s that.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Jul 29, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Giants doctor (who everybody probably now thinks is an idiot because he works for the Giants) didn’t think the knee was a problem
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was referring to after next year. And I’d really doubt he’d accept arbitration. He would probably be entering his last big FA payday. Why would he accept?
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously it all depends on what happens between now and then
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
Sanchez is currently Type B. I linked a chart from MLB Trade Rumors on another post regarding Molina; search the page for “Type A”.
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by Player To Be Named Later on Jul 29, 2009 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The absolute worse case scenario is if he doesn’t get 600 PAs and the Giants don’t exercise the club option (e.g. he gets hurt, the knee is really a problem, etc).
In that case, am I correct in assuming that the Giants get absolutely nothing for him walking because there’s no arbitration if you decline an option on a player?
by HaroldS on Jul 29, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the option vested with an All-star appearance or trade? Am I wrong?
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that dropped it from 650 PAs to 600, but that’s based on a hazy memory.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 29, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s $8.5M, or very likely above what he’d get on the open market now. His guarantee vests at 600 PAs; the club has the choice any time at that price.
However, if the club declines the option I’m pretty sure there’s no arbitration available. Sabean already said he’s back next year, but I’m more just looking at what happens if everything were to go wrong downside scenario.
by HaroldS on Jul 29, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I was close
The ASG nod brought it down from 635 to 600.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 29, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fangraphs' take
Sanchez is a nice complementary player, but he definitely should not have cost an A-level pitching prospect. In five years, this (panic?) trade is going to hurt.
by jksnake99 on Jul 29, 2009 5:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Alderson was an A-level pitching prospect
by superk1ng on Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurts if true. But he’s not an A-level pitching prospect
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It feels like what happened to fuck the organization in the ass around 2005. Trading for veterans. wheeee
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying to put anger into words...
First off, the odds are against Tim Alderson. That said, as far as prospects go, he is about as sure a thing as exists for becoming a useful major league arm. Whether in the bullpen or as a starter, it’s very likely that he’ll contribute around league average numbers for next to nothing for six years in Pittsburgh. He was also a key part of the Giants being able to retain their two best pitchers (Lincecum and Cain) because we’re saddled by Zito’s contract until 2013. Without young, cheap pitchers like him, there will be no possible way to do this. Now, pretty much all our hopes hinge on Bumgarner and another pitcher emerging. Pucetas? Maybe. Sanchez will start getting expensive around 2012. Wheeler? Hope springs eternal, I guess. Someone we draft/sign in the future. Not really good planning here.
And for that, we get an above average secondbaseman. A momentous improvement for our team. One that we have to pay a lot of money to over the rest of this year and next. It’s very possible that he outperforms his contract. But we gave up one of the best young pitching prospects in the game to get him.
You always have to go for it if you have a reasonable chance. Do we actually have a reasonable chance right now? No. Do we have a chance? Yes. We have a pretty good shot at taking the wild card now. Our pitching is outstanding. Our hitting is now borderline average.
I don’t like hating on players, but Garko and Sanchez had better both have an outstanding two months or I will boo them mercilessly. For clarity’s sake, I want them and you to know that I’m not really booing them, but Sabean, whom I can’t legitimately boo, because he won’t appear before me in a public forum.
Gah, I’m rambling. But I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hate this move.
IF Sanchez and Garko both have good Augusts and Septembers, and IF the Giants make the playoffs, and IF Lincecum and Cain make October their personal showcase to the world that they are the best 1-2 combination in the game today, then I’ll be OK with this trade. Pretty much anything short of that and I’ll still be pissed.
Oh, and as someone who has pretty much always given Sabean the benefit of the doubt and defended him… that’s over. I’m hereby calling for your non-renewal of contract. No, that sounds way to benign. I want Sabean to be fired the day before the season ends, just so we can fire his ass instead of letting him walk.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Above average. He’s about a 3.5 win player, in fairness to him. Still, mind bendingly awful.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
by MonkeyChow on Jul 29, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That last part of the paragraph is where I agree with you. I’d defended Sabean. I’m not going to anymore.
by HaroldS on Jul 29, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your point about Cain and Lincecum is a good one
Cain is signed, so that is not too much of a problem, but Timmy hits arbitration this winter and will destroy all records for pitchers. I think the Giants are paying at least 10 million for the next 3 years of Timmy.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t like the trade, I think it’s too much to give up. But I don’t think it’s worth rioting over and I’m happy to have Freddy Sanchez, he is a good player.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 5:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Like most fans, if we make the playoffs and get to see Tim and Matt in a short series, I’ll probably be OK with this. If we don’t win the wildcard, I’ll be pissed.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I said “meh” to this trade, Sanchez and Garko are not getting the Giants to the postseason. It will have to be the pitching. The offense is only marginally better.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the pitching isn’t going to do it. 2/5th of the rotation are completely inconsistent and 1/5 is not major league level. Essentially we have two outstanding pitchers and then a hope and prayer. Hell St. Louis has the same thing but they have an offense to with it. It’s not enough.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or to steal the 1950's line
Lincecum and Cain and pray for rain.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1948, actually, and that team had the best offense in the league. 1st in OBP, 2nd in SLG. By 1950 (when it was really true, they had like 3 SP pitchers on that team) the offense had gone downhill and they were a 4th place team.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, and that is really my biggest problem with this trade. With Randy Johnson’s injury I think this team has very little chance of making the playoffs, certainly not enough of a chance to give up a talent like Alderson to improve this team.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you voice of reason
"I would've been here sooner but I had to shake the Veleasels"
by The Gene Hackman on Jul 29, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fall in this category as well.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 29, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Bowkermania has been put on hiatus for retooling.
by rightcenterfielder on Jul 29, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo, Grant
Grant says, “What kills me, though, is that if the Giants were willing to trade Alderson, they could have traded for something they really needed.” I have seen Alderson pitch in person and I’m glad we got something for him. My guess, with his mechanics, he’ll blow out an elbow within the next four-five years. His arm is incredibly whippy, and Tom Seaver’s book, and my intuition tell me that is going to take a hefty toll on a lanky dude’s joints. I do agree that we should have coughed up Alderson (someone everyone else values highly) for something more valuable then a slap-hitting second baseman with a good glove. Either way… meh.
Brian Sabean is akin to a treatable form of cancer... just get rid of it before it kills you
by milesntrane on Jul 29, 2009 5:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Looking forward to free agency, why not, instead of signing a cleanup hitter for LF or wherever, why not sign a leadoff hitter there. Rowand is not an effective leadoff hitter. Assuming Molina leaves, why can’t Sandoval hit cleanup, and have a good leadoff hitter and Freddy hit in front of Panda. I’ll assume Carl Crawford re-signs, but what if?
Insanity is just a state of mind.
by giants9107 on Jul 29, 2009 5:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sabean (Littlefield) and Ned can share their feelings about
how it feels to be prison raped at the deadline. Giant fans now have their very own Casey Blake to love/hate.
Alderson may not be Santana-good, but you don’t trade a 20 year-old, consensus top 50 prospect who is pitching well in AA, for a busted-up rental. You just KNEW Sabefield was going to do something stupid after they came off the road and he singled out all the young guys, and left the vets alone. This is what you get with Sabefield in a playoff race.
Go fuck yourself Sabean and start praying that Alderson goes Liriano and blows his arm out.
BTW…Go fuck yourself too Neukom. I guess the “Giant way” is to treat your fans to this ass-clown GM for many years of veteran gamerness and .500 seasons.
by BigDaddyK on Jul 29, 2009 5:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wow THIS
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah this is what I was ranting about earlier. We basically handed out two top 10 prospects for one season of a guy with a questionable knee, and a guy who will probably platoon.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, when you put it in those terms…./shoots self
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
by Kitspool on Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
THREE YEARS of a guy who will probably platoon
I was okay with the Garko trade on its own. The trades on back-to-back days is like pissing all over a corpse after you set it on fire.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
tap is angry
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I nearly put out my eye applying eyeliner and ranting about this earlier.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont apply makeup angry
SIgn Many Bats!
by ringleader3 on Jul 29, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, not that I’m that inclined to be, the team is not required to have three years of Garko. They can just not offer him arb and let him go. At least that’s my understanding.
by taliesin on Jul 29, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yes. It’s three years total that they can have him. But if they traded away Barnes for two months of a platooning first baseman, we revisit the urine-soaked charred corpse and copulate with it.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well there’s a mental image I won’t soon forget…
by taliesin on Jul 29, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right!
Look how well that went down with AJ!
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no over reaction is enough here with the Mccoven.
by tyrannoman on Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if you bring it up, you get killed for it.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was at the game this afternoon and then drinking not nearly enough beer at 21st Amendment when the trade broke. Had to borrow someone’s iPhone to watch MCC blow up.
I don’t think this is a good trade, either long or short term. And that’s coming from someone who has Freddy Sanchez on his fantasy team. The only way this is a remotely comprehensible trade is if Garko and Sanchez go nuts for two months and the Big Unit somehow comes back for the playoffs and we plan on winning lots of 2-1 playoff games. But as Grant says, you have to be really optimistic to think we can win three series that way.
Gah.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
by Kitspool on Jul 29, 2009 5:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Abso-F**king**Unbelievable
Somebody was desperate to do something, any-f**king-thing. Ugh.
by reeky on Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s probably already been said, but now guys like Pucetas and Clark are going to be relied on even more to become better prospects. And they’re going to need Wheeler to sign soon too. Reactions are mixed in Fresno; some press box denizens like it, some field staff/media people do not.
Forgive me for being late. Wrapped up an interview and made up back up to the box just now.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well the site is in flames, there is smoke everywhere, and Grant grabbed a bat and said he had to go take care of something. Also, dogs and cats, living together.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 29, 2009 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure I understand your first sentence. Who’s relying on them to be better prospects? wouldn’t we want to be better prospects whether or not Alderson and Barnes get traded?
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, of course we always wanted them to succeed at the ML-level. However, now there’s no back-up plan if they fail, especially for Pucetas who will likely be in the big-league rotation very soon (perhaps Friday or the middle of next week). Yesterday we could say, well if Pucetas and Martinez don’t pitch well, we can rush Alderson. Now we can’t.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 29, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Original member of the Van Buren Boys
by NuschlerFace on Jul 29, 2009 5:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
our new second baseman
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bazooka Joe can swing it
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis.
by j14 on Jul 29, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
is he Mexican?
I might be moved to like him if he is.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s spanish
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm part Spanish
My dad’s mom was born in Spain, my dad’s dad is the Mexican one.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fiery and passionate.
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh right
He’s in California now, so he’s Mexican.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was born in CA, so it’s a good possibility.
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently a co-worker’s wife is his cousin. Oxnard? I think he said. Do not remember
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 29, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/checks
Burbank
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 29, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
cool haircut bro
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 40-man Problem
Who gets dropped on the 40-man? We’ll have to find a spot for Sanchez tomorrow and a spot for Nate when he comes off the DL…
Who gets the axe? Frandsen and … Guzman?
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis.
by j14 on Jul 29, 2009 5:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bocock
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
for some reason I thought he was already off the 40-man, but I see now that he’s still on there
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis.
by j14 on Jul 29, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they’ll move Aurilia to the 60 day DL so they won’t DFA him like they should.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, (as briefly touched upon above) if Sabean had of signed a cheap Hudson or Lopez in the off-season, none of this would even have been an issue (also the Giants would have a better record now).
It’s because Sabean made the perplexing choice to start the season with Burriss at second base, that any of this is even an issue. And it cost the Giants Alderson: basically a freebie from Sabean.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 5:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no, Sabean wanted to have an internal competition between Frandsen and Burris for 2B…because the Giants’ we not supposed to be this close this season, they were supposed to be devolping youngsters. If Sabean makes one of those signings, then half the folks on this board freak out about another vet signing. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
by tyrannoman on Jul 29, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
Because I don’t think anyone here is really that high on either.
Now, I still think Frandsen should have just been handed the job and given 300 PA’s, but hey
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the idea was to devolp internal solutions. I agree with you, Frandsen should’ve been given the job. I don’t get why the Giants’ are so high on Burris, but I’m okay with letting young guys play a little.
by tyrannoman on Jul 29, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point.
However, if Sabean claimed there would be a fair competition- he lied. Possibly not giving Franny a chance has cost the Giants Alderson. Or, Alderson could have been traded for a good RH OF instead.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you could be right. Burris does have an entirely differnt “Skill set” than Frandsen. I do believe he will devolp GG caliber D at 2B, and I don’t think that Frandsen ever will. However, I think that Frandsen will outhit Burris 150 to 1, because Burris just can’t hit.
by tyrannoman on Jul 29, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was too, but I understand why they didn’t. I also am worried (no hopeful?) that Hudson’s wrist will blow up at any moment.
by tyrannoman on Jul 29, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh. I’m not passionate either way. I didn’t want to see another year of Ivan Ochoa filling in. I do wonder how long he’s been playing with the bum elbow, though.
by tyrannoman on Jul 29, 2009 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, remember when the Pirates took on the rest of Matt Morris’ salary for Rajai Davis? What Goes Around Comes Around, Exhibit A.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
by Kitspool on Jul 29, 2009 5:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If karma were real we’d have a title by now.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Jul 29, 2009 5:44 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Karma is real. Look at Scott Spezio now.
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schmidt’s arm
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What goes around . . .
Can we say we’re even and never ever go this way again?
Don't believe everything you think.
by wcovington on Jul 29, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers are falling apart
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
anyone else reading the pirates’ boards?
long story short: our pain and suffering is only sweetening the deal they got.
how good is the giants' starting rotation? our rotation is so good, our 5th starters throw no-hitters. uh.
by Golden Gate Review on Jul 29, 2009 5:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
schmidt
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bonds
Original member of the Van Buren Boys
by NuschlerFace on Jul 29, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Scott Barnes/Tim Alderson package wouldn’t have been enough for Victor Martinez, but it would have been a heck of a start.
Great post. I was going to make this same argument before I noticed my bus was coming and I needed to leave work. A package of Alderson/Barnes/Crawford/Kieshnick has to be in the ballpark for Martinez. It’s pretty similiar to what they got for Lee and Lee is more valuable. Adding Martinez is a significant improvement to the team, not these moderate improvements around the edges.
I bought into Sabean’s refrain of not giving up top young talent for marginal improvement. It’s what I would have said and it was what I wanted to hear. The fact that he was saying these things made me feel he has turned the corner. I was obviously wrong.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Jul 29, 2009 5:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I hate this trade. This is exactly why we did not want Sabean doing the trade deadline dealing without a contract. Sanchez is just going to look like yet another old player, you watch, it won’t even take that long for him to look old. Heck, he has a bum knee right now. Way too much of an overpay for a decent complimentary player.
by out machine on Jul 29, 2009 5:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not going to be a Negative Nancy about this one, but...
I’ll preface this by admitting that I wasn’t terribly high on Alderson — at least in comparison to others I’ve seen comment. I mean, I’ve seen him pitch, and came away impressed, but I try not to become too attached to any one prospect. That said, I’m still upset.
It kinda reminds me of Al Davis drafting Darrius Heyward-Bay over Crabtree. It’s not that DWB is necessarily going to be a terrible player, but Davis didn’t HAVE to use a top ten pick on his ass. He could’ve easily, easily traded down. Granted, this isn’t quite as monumental a fuck-up, but it’s the same principle. In my mind, Sabean didn’t need to deal Alderson, and if he was so willing to do so, then we should’ve gone after a real season-changer. Sanchez is an upgrade, but how much of an upgrade, really?
by Wazl on Jul 29, 2009 5:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wah wah wahhhhhhh
how good is the giants' starting rotation? our rotation is so good, our 5th starters throw no-hitters. uh.
by Golden Gate Review on Jul 29, 2009 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah forgot about Crabtree for like…. 3 hours…
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just had a thought (may have been mentioned here already, but I don’t have time to read through all 150,000 comments. I’m at a goddamn Apple store right now.)
The Pirates were flying back to the East Coast after this game. The Giants probably figured they HAD to do this deal before the series ended, so that Sanchez wouldn’t have to waste a couple cross-country flights and he’d be theoretically available for the Phillies series this weekend. What do you want to bet the Pirates brass caught onto this and decided to play hardball with Sabean because they knew he’d cave at the last minute? I know he wasn’t going to be traded during this series, but when this afternoon rolled around, the Pirates, ironically, probably had all the leverage.
That’s all I can figure.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
by Kitspool on Jul 29, 2009 5:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope, he was going to his house in Arizona either way until after the trade deadline passed
by nofreetime on Jul 29, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, now this trade looks even worse.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
by Kitspool on Jul 29, 2009 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously Sabean either thought Sanchez is a very good player or the scouts were telling him Alderson’s value has gone way down.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And (while I don’t like this trade much) both of those things may actually be true!
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 29, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
G$ hits it on the head for me, here:
The only way this trade earns more than a D- is if the Giants keep their remaining prospects while adding someone who pushes Bengie Molina to the sixth or seventh spot in the lineup.
Has to be part of something else. This can’t be all there is. Right guys? Right?
My whole thing is the strange treatment of Frandsen. He could’ve been the solution at 2b, but instead we wasted a chance of finding out on Burriss. Baffles me. Won’t lose sleep over losing Alderson, mainly because he wasn’t an untouchable and Brute alleviated any worries I might have. hum baby
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jul 29, 2009 5:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the pirates wanted frandsen, but sabean said “no, let me screw with his development a little longer”
by sliderinthedirt on Jul 29, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know i’m a newbie, but i remember reading some acronym…
TINSTAPP anyone?
how good is the giants' starting rotation? our rotation is so good, our 5th starters throw no-hitters. uh.
by Golden Gate Review on Jul 29, 2009 5:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just curious — how recently have Law, Goldstein, Callis, Sickels etc raved about Alderson? I know he was top-50 before the season, but a few months (and a new level) can make a big difference for a prospect, especially one with an unconventional profile like Alderson. So are there more recent raves about him that can make me feel shitty about this all over again, or are we mourning based on outdated info?
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 29, 2009 6:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not that upset about losing Alderson as a prospect — he could be great, he could get hurt, he could struggle until he’s 27, whatever — but I don’t think that Sanchez is the best allocation of that trade chip.
by Grant on Jul 29, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wish we knew what other deal(s) the Giants could have done with Alderson or other pieces.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
Alderson is a good prospect, and should have gotten a more valuable asset.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 29, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s obvious the Giants brass doesn’t agree.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also not quite as obvious, but very very possible...
…that none of the other 28 teams in baseball agree either.
It takes two to trade, and the thing that makes all the pissing and moaning about every deal so fucking hard to read is that it’s almost all predicated on knowledge of the course of negotiations. The course of negotiations with everyone else in baseball. Knowledge that the whiner can’t possibly have.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on Jul 29, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meanwhile, Sanchez was on a team that didn’t want to get rid of him, and should have been available for a less valuable asset.
In a player-for-player equation, I sort of like the deal. In the “seriously? we couldn’t do better given all the other factors teams face” department, I hate it.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 29, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(er, “a team that HAD to get rid of him.” Sort of a crucial typing mistake there.)
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 29, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that Sanchez is the best allocation of that trade chip
This, unfortunately, is the crux of the my disappointment. Sabean doesn’t seem to have the insight of Mr. Magoo. We have wasted our (small) window of opportunity towards a bat with pop.
Don't believe everything you think.
by wcovington on Jul 29, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has it been said how much money the Pirates are kicking in for Sanchez?
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
0
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 29, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For fuck’s sake. Seriously. Fuck. Wasn’t that a sticking point as well as the knee?
The Pirates have shed nearly $24 mil in trades with Wilson, LaRoche, Sanchez, and Snell.
Fuck. I may have a seizure soon.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, I don’t give a brokedick motherfuck about what the Pirates do with their money, but we’re on the hook for $8 mil on top of the other fuckery?
I seriously have no words. Other than ones that start with F.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're being very undude. Calm down. Could it be that Alderson was just not that good?
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they estimated that Sanchez was better value. They probably did not start there but that is where it ended
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’rent you the one upthread who admitted to pulling things out of his ass?
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then maybe you should stick those things in your mouth so it’ll shut you up.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the fuck does “undude” mean? If it means I’m not a dude, then you’re 100% correct.
Or, you can look at it this way: we’re paying $8 mil for a knee that may or may not be healthy. Meaning, he could platoon as well. One AP report says it’s unknown when he’ll make his Giants debut due to his knee.
We could have signed Orlando Hudson and had much less fuckery as a result. And that makes me very ill.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are sooo angry. Its a Big Lebowski line. Would you rather have had Uggla for Alderson
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I am goddamn livid. I’m spitting bullets. And Uggla has nothing to do with this. I don’t know what’s stupider, the trade or you arguing this with someone who gets paid to write about the minor leagues.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. I feel your pain. You just sucked all the anger right out of me. I feel a calm now like I’ve passed into the eye of the storm.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baron, you do get paid to write about the minors, and your opinion is one I respect most around these parts. However, none of know what the actual offers on the table were, from whom, and what other teams scouting departments evaluated Aldersen’s talet level at. The Giants’ have, in the past, evaluated their pitchers very well internally. Other than the Nathan/Liranio trade, the pitchers the Giants’ have traded haven’t done well. I remember being livid when Jason Grilli was traded. Feel a little silly about that now.
by tyrannoman on Jul 29, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baron is in an abyss of anger, heartbreak, and bad feelings right now. I want to take him out for ice cream.
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. There are no girlz on the internets.
by taliesin on Jul 29, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reply to ninerkev, I mean
beeeeeer.
by Dan from NM on Jul 29, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said to BruteSentiment that it was mean for me to hope Alderson declines. For the sake of the Giants and my own sanity, I hope this. We don’t know what will become of Alderson, it’s true. Maybe they know something we don’t. But it’s still an awful trade, and while I’m very angry my evaluation of the trade stands.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we werent’ getting fair value for Alderson, then fucking HOLD ONTO HIM AND LET HIM PITCH IN OUR ORGANIZATION.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Jul 29, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may be in the minority but I think we are getting fair value.
But you’re talking about whether or not his value will increase. That’s a definite possibility. but I think there’s also a possibility that his value will decrease.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoah, step down from your pedestal
I wanted to adopt, but all the good looking babies were taken
by joeytothelimit on Jul 29, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I went there
Not advised, but neither is spouting nonsense and adding nothing intelligent to the discussion.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel terrible about the misunderstanding. Wanna go out for some ice cream? My treat. Might be good to get out and clear the head.
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t and don’t fault you for missing the fact that I’m female. You poked a hornet’s nest at the worst possible time with this trade. You’re certainly not the first person to ever say something dumb. I should be unleashing this anger on the front office.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your "professional" opinion please: How good is Alderson?
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't put professional in quotation marks
I think he is a more complete pitcher than Bumgarner, for their ages and pro experience. I like that he has four pitches and throws them for strikes. His velocity isn’t the greatest in the world, but I think as he gets older and fills out that it possibly would come along. The bad stretch in Connecticut this year was a concern, but I was patient with him given his age and it being his first test at the level.
I was thinking he’d be one of the pitchers to step into the rotation at the major league level. I considered him an untouchable. But I admit to being out of touch with his progress in CT, and my editor at SF Dugout conveyed his concerns with Alderson during a recent trip. So maybe the GNIATS BRAS sees something we don’t.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So nothing we did not already know. Thank you for that. And I will put whatever I want in "" marks.
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You a fucking dick. BVCE lives this shit 24/7. She knows more than anyone else here what she is talking about. Show a little god damned respect.
by satyricrash on Jul 29, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You! A fucking dick.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You! A celibate dick.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
by cheno on Jul 29, 2009 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow! You’re quite the ass, aren’t you?
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're kind of a douche
She provided you with a valid answer absent of malice. She showed you more respect than you deserve.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 29, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are coming off as quite the douche
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far in this thread we've established...
1) that you don’t really know anything, but make sweeping statements as though you do.
2) You act like a dick when people point that out.
3) You act like a dick when people try to educate you.
4) You either don’t know how to use question marks….or you’re a dick all over again.
PROTIP: This isn’t sfgate or mlb.com. People here are well-informed and expect others to be the same. If you say stupid shit, we call you stupid. Either deal with it, get better informed, or bugger off.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for droppin the knowledge. This place sure is hardcore.
by ninerkev on Jul 29, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“This place sure is hardcore” = the new “In Play: Out(s).”
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on Jul 29, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tird most hardcore blog at best.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
by cheno on Jul 29, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*third
Or turd. Whichever you want.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
by cheno on Jul 29, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh “turd”
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 29, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This guy is the absolute definition of a troll. 100%
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Jul 29, 2009 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, use your anti-virus software to kill it.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ILU
My day just turned around. You guys referred to the SOMEONE GOT TOLD flowchart, and I met Branch B Rickey.
I offer a mea culpa. I was acting too big for my britches, and I apologize. Just because someone’s an asshole doesn’t mean I have to be one.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baron, be what you want to be. Just be yourself.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DUDE.
Are you kidding me? Baron is like one of the authorities on the Giants farm system here and you are acting like an asshat.
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jul 29, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you threatened? give credit where credit is due man
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jul 29, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're paying $2m.
The option hasn’t vested, and if the knee is a real issue, it won’t.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on Jul 29, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the option doesn't vest, we just gave up Alderson for nothing
by dprodigy19 on Jul 29, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the option doesn’t vest, it’s dumb to give up a lower level prospect.
by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
I don’t think we can do anything more to the raped, charred, urine-soaked corpse. But Sanchez’s option not vesting would be the next hypothetical atrocity committed to the corpse.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it's bad if his option vests and bad if his option doesn't vest?
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on Jul 29, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs