Freddy Sanchez Traded to the Giants
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 29, 2009 3:58 PM PDT
Email
PrintThis deal came out of nowhere. The Pittsburgh Pirates traded Freddy Sanchez to San Francisco for Tim Alderson. Ugh.
904 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Hungry Like The Wolf?
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 29, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh better be paying all of his salary
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on Jul 29, 2009 4:00 PM PDT reply actions
That’s it, according to ESPN.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
they are not paying any of his salary
mlbtraderumors
Wow, so we gave up Alderson and $10mil for Sanchez? That is a lot.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Highway Robbery
Fck you Sabes.
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
I can only hope this means there is cash to make another deal
Otherwise on the surface, this is just awful.
No
That’s why I wanted the trade to go through!
by LinceCainGarnerSon on Jul 29, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
Didn’t mind waving bye bye to Bowk, Franny, Jesus.
Sir Alex Omar Hinshaw: It's not right if it's not left.
by The Enchanter on Jul 29, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
THIS
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jul 29, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
i like how this comes
right when Velez starts hitting. WHAT THE FUCK. Velez wont be playing once juggernate is back
With Malice Towards Maria Shriver
this is why the trade is useless
all we had to do was find 1 in 5 guys to hit the ball from 2b and there’s no reason to make a trade.
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Jul 29, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
i don’t like the trade either, but Bochy/Sabean can’t seriously expect Velez to keep hitting.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jul 29, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I certainly don’t expect it.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
plus
while you were typing that, Velez just made 3 errors at 2nd
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I knew I should’ve typed faster!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
FUCK YOU BRIAN SABEAN
brians sabean is officially mentally retarded, why would u give up TIM ALDERSON!! im so pissed off right now. our rotation was freakin set with lincecum, cain, bumgarner, alderson and zito. goddamit sabean u suck
Son of a...
They’re lucky the tarp is on the field in Bowie. He was supposed to start tonight.
They don’t have anyone else to pitch after yesterday unless English comes in on 4 days rest.
I just can’t buy a bucket when it comes to watching these prospects, can I?
this better not be turned
so we have money for wheeler or something lame like that.
With Malice Towards Maria Shriver
Pitchfork time
Sabean should be fired like 8×....
Wow wow wow
I can’t believe this. I would’ve bene pissed if it was Neal for Alderson
I don’t know how I feel about this. Freddie Sanchez had better be a HUGE asset to this team from here on out. And I mean HUGE.
What happened to all the Bowker, Guzman, Frandsen talk?
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
I agree.
He better be Omar with the glove and get some batting champ flashbacks.
But even that won’t change the fact that Sabean fucked up on this.
The only positive is that the Giants have a better shot this season… However unlikely it is for the Giants the win the World Series.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jul 29, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I was feeling so great about getting Sanchez for Guzman/Bowker/Frandsen. Now I feel horrible that it’s Alderson
by LinceCainGarnerSon on Jul 29, 2009 4:03 PM PDT reply actions
/follows j14
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Realistically
It is said that Tim Alderson will most likely never be a starter….. I have mixed feelings on this trade. But Tim Alderson doesn’t have starter “stuff” from what I’ve heard. I hope this doesn’t come back and haunt us.
who said that
He’s young for all his levels and keeps succeeding. What’s the problem?
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Realistically
Nobody has ever said that.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
Dude they’re smarter than that, cmon! he was checked out by doctors, so why would we trade one of our top prospects for someone that might be on the DL?
Guys, it looks like we’ll be drafting 1st round pitchers for several more seasons
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
At least that plays to an organizational strength…
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
this, out of everything that's happened today, is something I'm okay with
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe the Pirates have included another piece in the deal?
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
So dumb.
Forget that its for Alderson. Sanchez is nothing fucking special. Going to have a career high in strikeouts. Doesnt walk. Doesnt hit for power.
Isnt hitting even .300 even though people wanna scream “Batting Title”!!
2007 .304 avg
2008 .271
2009 .296
All he has are his doubles. Wish we had seen what frandsen coulda done, before trading for Sanchez, not to even mention for our number 4 prospect!!
I atleast hope that everyone all bonered out over sanchez is happy. Sabean is dumb.
+1
he’s not a great hitter, except for .avg. he really adds nothing to our team we couldn’t get from one of the hundred guys we have who can play 2b.
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Jul 29, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Many of which
didn’t get legitimate shots.
Frandsen comes to mind.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jul 29, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
the thing is
those 20 fools haven’t been doing THAT either.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
friiiiiiick
my heart hurts.
how good is the giants' starting rotation? our rotation is so good, our 5th starters throw no-hitters. uh.
by Golden Gate Review on Jul 29, 2009 4:05 PM PDT reply actions
And there go all of the positive feelings I've had for this season
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Really
This trade isn’t that bad. I reserve judgment until we find out if the Pirates are kicking back any $. (And they should)
Fits the Giants perfectly!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
no
I think the fact that he struggled to maintain a 2.00 K/BB is pretty indicative
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
See what you guys get for hating on Zorak?!?
"I would've been here sooner but I had to shake the Veleasels"
by The Gene Hackman on Jul 29, 2009 4:08 PM PDT reply actions
I’m mostly angry because I was expecting we’d give up much less (Frandsen, etc.). I’m just a little afraid that Sanchez isn’t going to be what we want him to be. I know we all loved Alderson, but honestly I’ve never looked at him as a sure thing
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
He went down a notch in my book
That puts him at notch 0
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
/throws Lars down the stairs
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
/throws self after Lars
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Brian Sabean
shame on you. Shame on you for mortgaging a key piece of our future in an effort to keep your job. I am disgusted with you and truly hope to all that is holy that you are relieved of your duties this season.
Cain is Able ...
by Norcalfan10 on Jul 29, 2009 4:08 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
thanks, Frank
Could you do a projection on Sabean getting fired?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
You’re going a bit overboard on this. It’s not that bad of a trade
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, it really is.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a horrible trade
1. You’ve already thinned your minor league pitching depth by trading Barnes, who was arguably our third best pitching prospect.
2. You are acquiring 2B on the wrong side of 30, who does not supply any of the power the team obviously lacks.
3. You now will have an $8million 2B next year, and a $9.5m shortstop. Their range is iffy, they have little power, and they should have been replaced by cheap in-house talent WHILE THE GM CONCENTRATED ON GETTING A POWER HITTER
4. You have given up your second best minor league pitcher to do so.
UGH
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Only an All-Star because he plays on the Pirates.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
every team gets one. even the Pirates.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Only 2 seasons over .300, two years ago.
I really wish you’d stop saying this because he is over 30. Past performance != future performance. Finally, the Pirates were about ready to dump him just to get rid of the salary. There was no reason to offer Alderson.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
Who out there really thinks offering Frandsen, Bowker, and Lewis would have done the trick?
Stop being delusional. this is not a video game franchise mode.
I don't think we needed to offer Alderson, our second best pitching prospect.
The Pirates were desperate to get rid of Sanchez’s salary. The Pirates were in a position of desperation, not us.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
Right. That’s what I meant to say — only shorter.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Why not. They’re trade with Seattle didn’t bring back anything like Alderson’s talent. A no-position one time prospect with decent power, and some low level guys. In fact, Pittsburgh’s now made what 6 trades in the last few weeks, and Alderson’s the only piece they’ve gotten back in any of them that were high level prospects. When they gave away Hinske they actually paid to get rid of him.
Two things strike me about this: 1) listening to BA’s trade deadline podcast today they were saying how teams really won’t give up impact arms in trades anymore (ie Phils refusing to trade Drabek) and Pittsburgh hadn’t gotten a single good arm in any of their many trades, or really a single good piece for the immediate future; 2) John Hart on MLB channel saying the key thing in these trades is money v. prospects. If you’re willing to eat the money you don’t have to pay as much in prospects and vice versa.
This trade went against the logic of both of those observations. Sanchez may (and I hope will) be an important piece for us. But we overpaid to get him.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
You should be on the debate team...
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Not that I like the trade or hate it but has anyone (other than people like Baron) actually seen Alderson pitch?? Sanchez is proven. Alderson is not.
Alderson has pitched in San Jose. A bunch of us have seen him pitch.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 29, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Its a salary dump.
regardless of his actual value, his perceived value was that of a solid B+ prospect. You dont give him up for a salary dump. Thats the point.
Cain is Able ...
this is an idiotic threshold
I haven’t seen Posey. clearly we should trade him for a backup C.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
i've seen him pitch
dude carves the fucking strike zone. he’s like a really good, non-sucky RH version of Barry Zito
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
yes, I have.
Alderson impressed me last year, even in A+ ball.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
No frigging way
Sabean can’t be this goddamn stupid. Felipe Lopez was acquired for scrubs, and the Giants sent a top 25 prospect for Freddie Sanche?
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
Bottom line for me is it sounded like Alderson should get a bigger return
With Malice Towards Maria Shriver
+1
I think we could have gotten Willingham for Alderson.
by Squire_Boone on Jul 29, 2009 4:33 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
And he’d bat third, I think, in front of Sandoval, so at least Molina wouldn’t be hitting cleanup anymore.
Willingham’s not a much better player than Sanchez, but he is a much better hitter. And this team needs offense. Badly.
I want Sabean fired
This is stupidity at a goddamn epic scale, for a player Pittsburgh was not going to retain past this year.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
just when i was starting to like Brian Sabean....
WTFF!!??!?!?!?!?
waiting for 2011....
UPDATE: The Pirates are going to get Double-A pitcher Tim Alderson, one of the Giants’ best prospects and their first pick in the 2007 draft.
Given how good a prospect Pittsburgh is getting, I’d venture a guess that the Pirates are sending the Giants some money to cover the $2 million or so left on Sanchez’s contract this season. He has a vesting option for ’10.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/index?#ixzz0Mh13tULC
Cool guys we get 2 Million Dollas.
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
That’s it? They should pay his 2010 salary too
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 29, 2009 4:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If we sign Sano with the money
I’d be happier.
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
Are you fucking shitting me?? Fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 29, 2009 4:10 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Apparently Sabean believes in overpaying drastically
WTF IS WRONG WITH HIM? SERIOUSLY? He’s a 31 year 2b with decling knees, and you gave up a top 30 prospect for him?
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
This is just so....so....... Sabean-like
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
SABEAN IS AN IDIOT
hey, I know… let’s give away future talent for a hurting second baseman! i am partial to alderson, so my opinion may be slanted… but STILL
how good is the giants' starting rotation? our rotation is so good, our 5th starters throw no-hitters. uh.
by Golden Gate Review on Jul 29, 2009 4:10 PM PDT reply actions
ok, fire him
I was pro-sabean for a while. Seeing how relatively not stupid he’s been lately, I even sorta bought in to the “Well, maybe his hand was a little forced with the Zito thing and upper brass”
Well fuck that. This is the shittiest shit ever.
Kevin Pucetas lurks in the shadows, waiting for his time to shine.
key word, “relatively”…. by Sabean standards, he’s been screwing up less lately. but even by Sabean standards, this is a doozy
how good is the giants' starting rotation? our rotation is so good, our 5th starters throw no-hitters. uh.
by Golden Gate Review on Jul 29, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Wily Sabean
…lying low, waiting for just the right moment to revert to SavvyVeteran Man™
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Sabean badly out GM’d by the Pirates.
This is like the Schmidt trade in reverse.
The saddest part is Sabean could have gotten so much more for Alderson.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
Such as?
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Dan Uggla, give or take a Fred Lewis.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jul 29, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Marlins aren’t selling. Plus, there’s no way of knowing how the trade market is panning out or what’s on each GM’s mind. It’s all speculation
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Look at every player the Pirates have received in their recent run of moves. Now look at this one. Which one of these things is not like the others? It’s exactly the way the trade market is panning out that makes this look like a bad deal.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Should play a drinking game
Sabean in his press conference on right now already said “Due diligence” within one minute of the start.
Why did everyone want Sanchez so much? He has a career OPS+ of 98. Career OPS of 750. I know he’s a 2b, but those aren’t really very good numbers.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 29, 2009 4:11 PM PDT reply actions
Because he was a lot better than Burriss, and we DIDNT THINK HED COST A TOP PROSPECT
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I agree. And you all KNEW it was Sabean who would be making the trade. That’s why I pray for no trades now.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s a good player; using his career stats is a bit misleading.
In no world, however, is he worth aldersom
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 29, 2009 4:14 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, this is the problem I have. You could argue that Alderson by himself isn’t worth much more, but if you could get a much better player by including a mediocre prospect, wouldn’t you do it? At least our second base sitch is vastly improved.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Because he's so much better than anything else we've trotted out at second base
This is, of course, an indictment in itself on Sabean. The fact that they kept throwing Burriss and Uribe out there so much while Frandsen got so little chance to prove himself is absurd. Perhaps Frandsen wouldn’t have done nothing for us anyway. But now we’ll never know. And it cost us Tim Alderson to never know.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Well, he’s better than Burriss, who is the ONLY secondbaseman we’ve given any real shot this year.
Otherwise, who knows?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Exactly, and we should have known
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Is Brian Sabean in the last year of his deal?
How could they let him make such an irresponsible deal? This is a crippling trade for such a good and deserving franchise (not talking about baseball ops necessarily).
Ok
I’m not a fan of the trade but it is no way crippling.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Jul 29, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe crippling is strong.
This is a big time prospect and he’s traded for an overrated player that doesn’t walk, is expensive and under control for only one season. The fact that they let this fool continue to make deals is confounding.
by All Shook Down on Jul 29, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Im so pissed. There is no excuse for this. If this was the cost , you say thanks bit no thanks and see what beane wants for Kennedy.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 29, 2009 4:12 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Or what Scutaro might cost
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Seriously, why the fuck is this man employed?
He’s sacrificing the good of the team for his goddamn career. He should be fired, right now.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
ok
1.) I think Alderson is not going to be more than a good set-up man
2.) I think many teams believe he will be much more than that
3.) Not a fan of Sanchez. Another guy who doesn’t walk or hit for power
4.) I hate this trade. A lot
Jamie Moyer on Line 2
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
The point isn’t what he ends up as, it’s that we didn’t have to give up this much to get Sanchez – and if we did he wasn’t worth it. He is a salary dump by the Pirates. They had to trade him because he was certain to get enough ABs so that his 2010 option would have vested and they’d be on the hook for his entire 2010 salary.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Guess I’m the only one here who is happy we’re now a better team this year and next while Tim and Matt are hitting their prime
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jul 29, 2009 4:14 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yes we can now score 1 run in maybe just 9 innings instead of ten.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
i’m not convinced this deal makes the Giants better, unfortunately.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
How so?
We no longer have Uribe playing everyday
by Classy_Argonaut on Jul 29, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Please explain.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
slightly above average glove + league average OPS = meh.
cost benefit analysis = squarely in the Bucs’ favor.
A good trade should hurt for both teams. Here, the Pirates gave up nothing and got a prospect.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
Okay, but you said it doesn’t make us better. In this case I don’t care about the Pirates. For just this instance, think only about the Giants. How does this trade not make us better this year and next? Remember, our middle infielders are the worst in the NL. Burris has already been worth a win below replacement. How is Sanchez not an improvement? I’m not saying great or even good, but an improvement.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
i actually *didn't* say that
i said i’m not convinced it makes the Giants better. It might, and it also might not. I allow for the possibility that Sanchez is an improvement over the current scrubs, but that doesn’t make it a good trade. Giants gave up too much, full stop.
If we want to go down the path of “making it a better team this year,” we could conceivably discuss trading Posey & Bumgarner for the hallowed “power bat,” and that would also make the team better this year. It would be a terrible idea, but it would make the team better this year.
I think you get where I’m coming from, namely, we can’t look at these things in isolation.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
Of course we can’t. And I’m sorry for misquoting you, but you did say:
“i’m not convinced this deal makes the Giants better, unfortunately.”
Clearly, the ML club is better this year and next. Does that make it a good trade long-term? Only if we win the WS this year or next. If we don’t, well then, we’ll just have to see. It is a very risky trade, you’re right. And I do think the Pirates are losing something in this trade – namely, their best hitter – but you’re right, it doesn’t hurt as badly for them.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
well, we can agree to disagree on the "clearly" part
And I’m ok with that. :)
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
Cool. I actually enjoyed this little chat. Thanks for being reasonable.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I’m not thinking only about “this year and next.” I want a GM who thinks at least 4-5 years down the road. Alderson is more valuable than getting Freddy Sanchez. And the Pirates had to get rid of him, so clearly Sabean is no negotiator.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Again, what is the window for Freddy Sanchez? 8 months of baseball. Is this team better over those 8 months? Yes. Does that make it a good trade? No because that simply isn’t a sufficient data set.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I think this makes the Giants better this year. Sanchez was an All star. Everyone we had at 2nd has sucked.
aurilia
was an all-star, too. he doesn’t make the giants better.
BECAUSE EVERY TEAM HAS TO HAVE ONE
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
+1.
That’s pretty much my attitude. We are (hopefully) a better team now.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 29, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Goofus, we control Tim and Matt for 3 years together
and we just gave up a top 50 prospect for a 2b who the Pirates desperately were not going to retain at his $8M option. IT was a stupid move and a ridiculous overpay. Barnes would have been a fair price; Sanchez is not. 10 bucks say the imbecile GM looked at the batting average, saw its shiny, and made the deal.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
This is where my frustration is coming from. It’s the Pirates. There’s like a 99% chance that they won’t retain Sanchez so why’d we give up someone of high potential.
Wrong
It’s even worse than that. The way his contract is written they were 99% certain to have to pay him the $8M option for next year. If he makes 600 ABs this year his club option would automatically vest. So they were desperate to get rid of him.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Sanchez is worth more than Barnes. Unfortunately, you are very right about Sabean’s ability to evaluate offensive production.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
When? If it’s before the season he certainly has dropped since then….I can think of a lot of guys who are producing in the minors and who also have much higher upsides….
was 45 at BA, 60 at BP
Jonathan Mayo had him in the top 30, but that’s purely from memory.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
If you’re not upset, you don’t truly understand the situation. imho.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
if you’re not upset, you can’t possibly understand the deep love and attachment the Mccoven have given Alderson….the Giants’ under Saben (with one Joe Nathan sized exception) have always known when to cut bait on pitching prospects. Of course, in our love and rage agains anything Sabean, we choose to ignore that and think this is the worst move in the history of baseball. Then, in five years when Alderson is truly Volgesong-esque, we’ll all forget the rage and vent about the latest trade and/or non signing the Giants’ have made.
No, Goofus, I’m right there with you
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes. Alderson was overrated last year. The assumption was that he would add speed to FB because of his projectable frame but he hasn’t. In fact there are reports that he’s regressed. This trade is not terrible and I’m glad they’re going for it this season and next.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m with you goofus.
Proud new co-dad of Travis Ishikawa. And ishikaBOOM Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Jul 29, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Useful Idiot is right about Goofus being right
"I would've been here sooner but I had to shake the Veleasels"
by The Gene Hackman on Jul 29, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Sabean just punched his ticket out if the Giants miss the playoffs
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
This
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Very mixed
I screamed at the television when I heard Alderson’s name, but I’m happy we have Sanchez. Should have gotten ALOT more for Alderson though. How is Sabean unwilling to give up Jonathan Sanchez yet Alderson is expendable?
Pitt probably held out for Alderson and knew we needed a hitter + Sanch plays a position that fits our needs
Hm…I dunno why. Could be because Sanchez has some success in MLB, a no-hitter, great stuff and a good K/IP rate. Sanchez has a MUCH higher ceiling.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 29, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Well done
Higher ceiling + success at higher level = BETTER PLAYER. I would much rather trade Alderson than J Sanchez.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I would rather have Dirty than Alderson and it’s not close.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
On the positive side
This trade makes me feel much better about the Garko deal. By comparison, Sabes did brilliant work in that one.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I don’t know about that actually. Alderson is closer to Barnes than he is to MADBUM imo
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Brian Sabean: Making His Earlier Moves Look Better By Comparison Since 2003.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Sabean is a joke. Giants fans sit through years of underperforming where the only thing we have to look forward to is our prospects, and then they’re fucking gone before they can reach their potential. This team was built to contend in the next few years, not today, and Sabean is just pissing it away.
How does one go about starting a petition
Neukom needs to know how truly evil our GM is.
Cain is Able ...
He's Too Busy
Trying to hold onto Santa Clara County
"I suddenly hate Canada with a passion = BASTARDS!!!!!! " -Mr K, Upon hearing Moyes filing Chapter 11
DAMNIT
This is so lukewarm of a trade. Depends on Sanchez’s production/Alderson’s future.
"I suddenly hate Canada with a passion = BASTARDS!!!!!! " -Mr K, Upon hearing Moyes filing Chapter 11
Pending a physical, yeah?
So let’s have a RALLY SANCHEZ PHYSICAL FAIL SUBTHREAD
PHYSICAL FAIL PLZ
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
This is such an obvious deal from the Pirates perspective that I have to imagine Sabean could have made it a month ago. Not that I like this deal at all, but an extra month of Sanchez this year would have made a pretty big difference.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
So where is the new hole on diamond?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 29, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions
Shortstop, catcher, corner outfield.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
You left out General Manager, Manager, Pitching Coach, and Minor League Starter
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Oops
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
You left out hitting coach
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 29, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
couldn't we have given the A's some crappy prospects for orlando cabrera?
and stuck him at 2b? i mean, if we really really needed to make a trade.
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Jul 29, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions
Or we could’ve just signed Orlando Hudson in the off-season _
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
this reminds me of the time I traded in my cake and got a pie
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
Great goodness
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Also, we still, have Guzman, Frandsen, Bowker, etc. etc. just hanging out. Sabean coulda really cleaned house instead of bloating.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
I can’t wait for some team to trade two c prospects for Kennedy.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 29, 2009 4:16 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Here's the absolute worst part
The Phillies gave up a bunch of fucking nobodies for FUCKING CLIFF LEE. HE WON A CY YOUNG.
and we gave up a good prospect for a guy with a batting title
by Classy_Argonaut on Jul 29, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
For a prospect who quite possibly could amount to very little
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Every one one of the players they traded is projected to be a MLB starter.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 29, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha, you are funny. Velez isn’t a started. Velez is a moderately useful AAA player who can make spot starts. Hell, Velez is probably going to get down as soon as they get Sanchez on the roster.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Accidentally, you make the case for this trade.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 29, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly. Lots of people have started in the majors. That doesn’t make them major league-caliber starters. There’s a difference.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
My point isn’t that Velez has started games. My point is that every one of those prospects is projected to be a MLB starter. They aren’t just a bunch of crap players.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 29, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Wrong
They gave up a lot of good talent for Lee.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Jul 29, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
HE BETTER BE THE FUCKING SAVIOR
it’s playoffs or bust now!
I'm drowning my sorrows in cake
(it’s birthday cake day in the office)
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis.
THE CAKE IS PEOPLE!!
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Does anyone believe Sabean knows how to do any advanced analysis?
High Batting average = GOOD! Give up the farm! This is all about trying to get a contract for next year for Sabean, and he ought to be fired for it. Its one thing to give up Alderson for a cost controlled young 2b; for a guy the Pirates don’t want to retain past this year. gah.
GAAHHHH I’m annoyed right now.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
This. Soooo this.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 29, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean, Felipe Lopez is basically the same hitter
and Milwaukee acquired him for scrubs. And we give up frigging Alderson because Sabean wants to cover his own ass?
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I know. Either trade scraps for a similar player like Lopez or trade Alderson, but get a real bat — Willingham, whoever. But this? Why? The Pirates were the ones who had to dump his salary. I don’t get it. Wait, yes I do: Sabes just said in the press conference that Sanchez has won a BATTING TITLE!!! was an ALL-STAR!!! three out of the last four years (nevermind the Pirates had to have one and he’s versatile). I guess he must be a superstar.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 29, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, I bet that's all Sabean looked at
I don’t think he has the understanding to go beyond that. The concept of OBP is foreign to him.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
Bengie Molina still bats cleanup! AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!
This is my favorite part of the thread so far. Both of you are so dead-on target. Sabean’s pathetically poor analysis of hitting has just struck again. On a team that:
- is next-to-last in the NL in OBP
- is next-to-last in the NL in SLG
- is next-to-last in the NL in OPS
- is next-to-last in the NL in HRs
- is next-to-last in the NL in Runs Scored
- has Bengie Molina batting cleanup…
…Brian Sabean targets (and trades one of our top trade commodities for) …(wait for it)… a fair-to-middling #2 hitter? Freddy Sanchez will not bring significant help in any of the above categories. In five full seasons, Sanchez has OPSed over .800 one time. Even with that one season, Sanchez’ career OPS and OPS+ are just .756 and 98, respectively. Not very impressive, and definitely not the kind of hitter the Giants needed to really do some damage in the postseason (if they even make it that far). Furthermore, Sanchez, who has about 3/4 of his career at bats against RHP, has career splits of .711 OPS and 88 OPS+ vs. RHP.
The Giants are desperately in need of power hitting, and for the life of him, Brian Sabean simply is unable to figure this out. Unfortunately, Sabean LO-O-O-OVES intangibles, and the only hitting tangible he seems to go for is batting average. Furthermore, he seems to ALWAYS evaluate players based on their best (usually outlier) season. When Sabean looks at a guy like Sanchez, he’ll ALWAYS see a .344 hitting batting champ. And he paid the going rate for that type of hitter. Yes, no one knows how Alderson will pan out, but I can’t believe he had this low of trade value. I can’t believe that all Alderson could bring us was an overpaid, non-power hitting, non-difference-making, injured second baseman.
I’ve been pining for Sabean to be removed for five years now. I fear it will never happen. Nor will winning a World Series, as long as Sabean is around.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Without checking, advanced analysis treats Sanchez very well because of defense plus positional adjustment. Hasn’t he been worth like $16 or $17 million per year the past few?
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 29, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Closer to 10, but yes, he is underpaid.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
So I totally agree with you
But what the hell can we do about it? Is there an email address we have to which I can address my complaints? Does anyone have Neukom’s phone number?
great trade except....
we gave up #4 prospect for 31yr old 2nd baseman with no power who at best is a #2 hitter
life sucks…Bochy “i envision him batting in the two hole”
Oh yea thats our problem!!!! arghhhhh
and Molina continues to bat #4
WE REALLY NEEDED TO MAKE A DRASTIC MOVE LIKE THIS
Please tell me this is an elaborate joke.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 29, 2009 4:19 PM PDT reply actions
this lineup isnt bad
rowand
sanchez
sandoval
molina
garko
winn
renteria
schierholts/torres/valez
Yeah, Molina is still cleanup and the corner outfield situation is still a mess.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
It's not very good either
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Yes, it is
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 29, 2009 4:21 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
couldn't we have gotten DUNN for alderson + some others?
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Jul 29, 2009 4:20 PM PDT reply actions
lol. i guess 40hrs 100rbi is a matter of opinion.
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Jul 29, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
The dingerz are nice, true, but he’s also a butcher on defense and gives back most of what he gets offensively.
Also, I don’t think too many people are going to take you seriously if you bring up RBIs as if they mean something about how good a player is.
But bengie has tons of RBIZZZZ!
by quincy0191 on Jul 29, 2009 4:31 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Worst defense in the majors. Look it up. He gives all those runs he produces back on defense.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Power and OBP
The Giants are missing two thing in their offense: Power and the ability to get on base. Dunn provides both, Sanchez provide neither. It’s pretty simple.
Willingham provides both
And isn’t a complete butcher in the field. And would cost less. and is a righty
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
LOL. Worst defense in baseball is even simpler.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
15.7 VORP for Dunn vs. 4.9 for Franchez. How is this an argument?
They say you're a pitcher; you sure aren't much of a dresser.
by CystedTwister on Jul 29, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
and the fact that VORP sucks
and LF offense v. 2nd base offense
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
OPS+
Dunn 132, Sanchez 98
Dunn is more valuable, plus he provides what the Giants need.
That’s not taking in account his defense.
Judgment Day has been indefinitely postponed. :(
comics | art | Nattowear
At least I’m well on my way to drunkenness
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 29, 2009 4:20 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
That’s always a good response
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the way to go.
Drown it out, maybe it will go away tomorrow.
"I suddenly hate Canada with a passion = BASTARDS!!!!!! " -Mr K, Upon hearing Moyes filing Chapter 11
times like these I hate being 17 and living with my parents
Kevin Pucetas lurks in the shadows, waiting for his time to shine.
by Sammy Danger on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Are they thinking of trading you away for an aging vet?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow I was willing to trade Alderson but I would never do it for Sanchez. FU SABES FU FU FU FU FU.
Felicitations, malefactors! I am endeavoring to misappropriate the formulary for the preparation of affordable comestibles. Who will join me!?
Willingham, maybe
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 29, 2009 4:22 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I hate that guy – until he is playing center field for the Giants.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
No way we could have got Willingham for Alderson? If Sabean wanted to trade Alderson, it would have been good to get an above-average hitter.
Wrong
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
We still got
Bumgarner
"I suddenly hate Canada with a passion = BASTARDS!!!!!! " -Mr K, Upon hearing Moyes filing Chapter 11
And Posey. Two of the top 10 prospects in THE ENTIRE GAME!
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
At this point I'm almost hoping Sanchez is on the DL most of the year
so Giants Brazz doesn’t say “OMG SABES U MADE THIS TEAM A WINNER HAVE A 10 YEAR EXTENSION!”
Kevin Pucetas lurks in the shadows, waiting for his time to shine.
You’re hoping it fails for the sake of it not succeeding? YEAH GUYS I’M WITH THIS
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Sabean: “There is still time on the clock. I can’t say if there is another move coming”
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 29, 2009 4:21 PM PDT reply actions
Go jump into a lake Brian
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
OMG no
Somebody please steal his cell phone and turn off his land-line until Saturday.
Where’s Nuekom in all of this?
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
As I said before
Bawwing over the south bay. Check back when that drama is over, he’ll get back to caring about the TEAM
"I suddenly hate Canada with a passion = BASTARDS!!!!!! " -Mr K, Upon hearing Moyes filing Chapter 11
Frandsen Screwed again!!
Poor Franny must have been hoping he’d be traded so bad.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
He could, but his Karma won’t give him the chance.
I think he can play third also.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha, you think he’ll play! No he won’t. Well, maybe for another team.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Looking for a silver lining for Franny… How possible is it that with the bone spurs they want to hold onto Frandsen for SS insurance?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
What an idiotic move. Alderson’s numbers were definitely Dodd affected and if all you can get was Sanchez back, it’s a massive ripoff.
well, Dodd's a pitcher's park
so that doesn’t help this arguement
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
well now frandsen can get traded...
along with downs. maybe we make another move?
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Jul 29, 2009 4:22 PM PDT reply actions
at this point, probably for vernon wells or something
I’m in FULL OVERREACTION MODE right now don’t bother me
Kevin Pucetas lurks in the shadows, waiting for his time to shine.
by Sammy Danger on Jul 29, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
bochy said "
two minor league pitchers" who is the other
Is it wrong
that where before this trade I was hoping that Alderson turn out to be a top pitcher in the league and now I wish nothing but horrible things upon him?
it's the "jason schmidt" complex
i feel guilty i thought the same things about him, with where he is now
how good is the giants' starting rotation? our rotation is so good, our 5th starters throw no-hitters. uh.
by Golden Gate Review on Jul 29, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah it was easier with ScHmIdT
since he went to the dodgers
by Johnny Drama on Jul 29, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
It doesn’t reflect well on your character.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
First!
Also, mine isn’t a reference to Matt Dillon’s brother.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
salt on wounds.
Until the wheels fall off. Unless this is what it looks like with them on.
by periqueblend on Jul 29, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
/me lols
/me kills self
Kevin Pucetas lurks in the shadows, waiting for his time to shine.
by Sammy Danger on Jul 29, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
no, for a veteran reliever
He knows how to win!
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
willingham isn't injured
so probably not.
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Jul 29, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Mike Stanton's available
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Whatever
Alderson = not worth what you think he is. The giants have fleeced the pirates so many times, could this be compensation? I admit I thought we couldve done better with him…mainly due to buying the Mccoven Prospect Hype™. Sachez fills a much needed hole…since we won’t play frandsen. I got nothin
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jul 29, 2009 4:24 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
He's a 20 year old pitcher in AA
He led the California League in ERA as a high school pitcher in his first season. BA had him as a top 50 prospect, BP at 60, others in the top 30. The idea that he is worth Sanchez in this environment is ridiculous; does anyone think Minnesota was going to take on $8M next year?
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
So he’s got a great rank above replacemet player, and I supposed to throw self down stairs? Btw someone call marcello and make sure he’s ok; he threw a fit over barnes, I’m afraid he might hurt someone after this.
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Surprisingly
I’m not that upset with this trade. It’s certainly not a great trade and I think we paid too much again, but at least it’s a significant upgrade for the team this year and next, unlike the Barnes trade.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
they fleeced Dave Littlefield...
this is not Dave Littlefield….this is the opposite
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
"I'll do that any day of the week"
Ralph
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
/points to an Amici’s pizza
Bowkermania has been put on hiatus for retooling.
by rightcenterfielder on Jul 29, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Ralph is also the person who told me on the air years ago that signing Vlad Guerrero was a bad move
Of course, he adopted my stance less than a month later.
I’ve been bitching in the wrong thread for 20 minutes
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 29, 2009 4:25 PM PDT reply actions
/bitches about that as well
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 29, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Freddy Sanchez owes us like 90 hits before the end of the season, and 200 next year. Then I am okay with this trade
I don't like the trade
I think it’s too much to give up. But I don’t think it’s worth going into a blind rage over
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 4:26 PM PDT reply actions
Have you seen some of the things the MCC goes into a rage about?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Yeah, but Rush is different.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Rush FAILS
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jul 29, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but Rush is different good
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry everyone, for opening this can of worms.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
/guy we traded mark sweeney for
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 29, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't worry
Alderson is in pittsburgh now, no one does well there. Cain, Lincecum, two elite pitchers that dominate the division and all signs point to Bumgarner fitting in the same class. Obviously no team wants to see that in the playoffs, let the GM worry about offense for a team that can’t score runs.
The worst part
This deal was done two days before the deadline. How do you not go all the way to the wire if the Pirates are holding steady at Alderson?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
For those really against it
I guess you know more than major league executives. Send your resumes to the teams.
at this point, i agree
how good is the giants' starting rotation? our rotation is so good, our 5th starters throw no-hitters. uh.
by Golden Gate Review on Jul 29, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
meaning, i think i could do a better job
how good is the giants' starting rotation? our rotation is so good, our 5th starters throw no-hitters. uh.
by Golden Gate Review on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I love the assumption...
that all MLB executives are there because of merit
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
In this case they can, if you bother watching some of the prospects pitch. Sabean has never once been to Connecticut. Well done.
are you sure he’s never seen him in SJ, or anywhere Alderson played on the road? You don’t think that James Barr didn’t file an internal scouting report on him?
I certainly hope he went down to SJ, and I’m sure Barr did file a report.
But I also know they’ve been very, very dumb with their expectations of players in AA in the past, and that’s much easier to do when you’ve never even seen a game at the home stadium when it so dramatically affects numbers and approaches people take at the plate and on the mound.
When you really break down both Alderson’s numbers and what he needed to do to reach the majors rather than read the surface ERA of over 4, it’s a different story.
I love the assumption
That they can’t.
by quincy0191 on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Sarah Palin for President! Average folk FTW!
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, i have honestly no idea about any of the prospects in the minors
Or how they will do in the majors, aint my job
Every GM in the history of baseball, by virtue of their title, knows more about baseball than anyone who is not a GM. That’s some sweeeeet logic.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
No
But some here seem to think they know better than the average GM (although some people here may actually be smart than Omar Minaya.)
The evaluation of the game has moved beyond the skills and abilities of most MLB GMs. They refuse to use tools at hand. And thus most of us with an internet connection could do an adequate job as a GM.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
This may have been true five years ago but I’m not sure it’s true now.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Evaluation is one thing, and on that you’re right. There are a lot of armchair GMs who think they’re smarter than people who do this for a living, especially thanks to the advent of easy statistical analysis and the cult of Beane.
People make mistakes, players don’t develop, things work out different than they should have – and in that sense I’ve defended Sabean in the past. He’s made a lot of good trades as well as the disasters people here tend to focus on. So either the rest of baseball was drastically overvaluing Alderson or Sabean is far smarter than everyone else in baseball in deciding that he wasn’t going to pan out. That may end up being true.
However, continually looking at your poker hand and not being creative with it is another.
I simply cannot believe that given Alderson’s valuation by others in the game that he couldn’t have brought back more – a lot more – if packaged properly. That’s unforgivable in anyone who makes their living trading, . This fills a need, but a good GM leverages his chips to get more chips unless you’re going to win everything now. The Giants aren’t, and giving up this particular chip at this point puts me in the camp that would prefer to see a new GM.
I’m not defending Sabean. I actually hate him but I just see way too much overreaction to this deal.
The point isn't whether any of us could do a better job than Sabean...
The point is, there are plenty of eminently qualified people around MLB who could do a much, much, much better job than Sabean, and would be only too happy to do so, if given the opportunity.
The point isn’t that everything that Brian Sabean does brings death and destruction to the San Francisco Giants. The point is, NOTHING he has done since 2002 has brought the Giants within reach of a World Series. What he has done today continues that trend.
Sabean long ago lost the right to any benefit of the doubt. For six years now, he has made bad trade after bad trade, and has signed worthless free agent after worthless free agent, overpaying in the process nearly every time. Sure, even good GM’s make bad deals from time to time, but since the end of 2002, nearly every move Brian Sabean has made has ranged from mediocre, to bad, to disastrous.
He has destroyed any faith that many of us may have once had in him. I can only hope that Giants’ ownership will do the right thing soon, and get rid of him.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
This is seriously the worst argument ever. Unless you are going to argue that EVERY trade is a PERFECT trade that benefits both teams equally, there is plenty of room to criticize. Anyway, I guess you know more than internet posters. Send your resume to your mom’s basement.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 29, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Shut up
I never I knew more than anybody else here but I’m sure the average person doesn’t know more than the average MLB GM.
My experience in life is that an astonishing amount of people aren’t that good at their job — I know of know level of profession (President, Supreme Court Justice, 500 CEO) where this stops being true.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
This is actually very astute. I’m suprisingly poor at my job, even. This is something to think about.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
This is just what I thought. The GRM Defense < The Chewbacca Defense.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 29, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
once again, giants fans overvaluing unproven minor league prospects.
by candlestickparklegends on Jul 29, 2009 4:27 PM PDT reply actions
Reacting to years of cumulative fail by Sabean. It’s not as simple as a reation to this single trade.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
it’s not as bad of a trade as a lot of people are making this out to be. we’re pitching rich in the minors and right now alderson isn’t doing anything for us sitting in double A Connecticut. if anyone expected to get an all star who consistently hits around .300, has a batting title, and a hell of a glove for peanuts, then their delusional. not to mention he was the face of the pirates franchise.
by candlestickparklegends on Jul 29, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I made that “pitching rich” argument to justify the Garko deal, but in this case it doesn’t come close to working.
One more time, repeat after me, Sanchez was a salary dump for the Pirates. We had them over a barrel, because they had no other legit suitors and Sanchez was almost certain to get 600 ABs this year. As soon as he hit 600 ABs his 2010 option would vest and the Pirates would be on the hook to pay him $8M next year whether they wanted him or not. There’s no way you give up the #3 prospect in your system for a salary dump trade.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:28 PM PDT reply actions
when? Burriss got 200+ at bats. Frandsen got a couple of cups of coffee and no extended playing time despite a much better track record. I wouldn’t call that a chance.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
his own fault for tearing his achilles
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jul 29, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s hard for any player to come back from a 1 year injury layoff and Frandsen was only given 39 very spread out at bats this year to try and get his groove.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
all valid points above, am probably not giving Frandsen enough slack … am just more inclined to strike while the hammer’s hot than patiently wait for potential to develop, or not, and miss chances at the post season … particularly considering the record of several wild card teams doing well in the playoffs, and with the starting pitching we can throw out there
it would have been nice to see Frandsen included in the trade ,even just as a give away, so we don’t have to hear him bitch to the Fresno Bee anymore
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d shoot that messenger as well
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 29, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
WE STILL NEED ANOTHER POWER BAT
HOW ARE WE GONNA GET ONE W/O TRADING MAD BUM??? WE WON’T.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 PM PDT reply actions
All I am saying is sit back on this one. You don’t know if Alderson will turn into the next Foppert. Sanchez is a solid 2nd baseman, who can help this team this year.
The point is that this is a bad deal, in and of itself. At their present relative values, in the exact moment of the trade, in the context of the Pirates situation, Sabean should have done better – or walked away.
Our chief trader isn’t very good at the art of trading.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
It sure should be.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
he could be a bust. he could be a stud. he’ll likely be somewhere in between. you can’t make trades based on what if. you have to make deals based on the probabilities. in 2 years, Sanchez will very likely be gone. while he’s here, he’ll be past his prime and overpaid. Alderson, even if he becomes a back end starter or a is more valuable.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t he also be a type A and looking for a long-term contract to ride out the rest of his playing years?
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Alderson is way too good of a prospect to use the typical “he could turn out to be a bust” line. Yes, there is no such thing as a pitching prospect, but top 50 prospects turn out to be busts much much less frequently than 2nd tier prospects.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
u guys must be clairvoyant. I’m going to sit back and enjoy the fact that we finally have a good second baseman. Feel free to say I told you so if Tim becomes a stud, but based on his stuff I don’t think that will happen. By the way demanding that Sabean be fired now is dumb. Neukom obviously signed off on this.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
when we have a good 2B...
point him out to me. We have a decent 2B that has a good chance at heading to bad despite being paid in the top 5 at his position
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Bumgarner for Dunn
I’m going to fucking hurl
But it’s also a matter of the current positions of the organization. Who here thought the Pirates were ever serious on signing Sanchez to a multi-year extension? Elsewhere, there aren’t very many contending teams with both a significant hole at 2B and the money to take on Sanchez’s contract.
Tim’s future potential is debatable. Sanchez’s future as a Pirate is not.
FUCK IT........
We just put all our chips in for this and next year! Sabaen better be trying to find a RHH outfielder with power too.
makes it worse this is a day after bumgarner has that shitstorm of a start
With Malice Towards Maria Shriver
I am not pleased.
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
Tim Alderson
may b only slightly better than Joe Nathan
Sanchez
May be slightly better then Edgardo Alfonso
who was that douchebag?
I’m hoping to never see him on TV again
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
careful
good friends with his brother. Went to same high school as him
With Malice Towards Maria Shriver
And here I was, thinking this site was more mature than sfgate and sfgiants.com
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
.300 HITTUR!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the worst part of it is is that this was done after hearing the news on Randy Johnson’s injury, which I think effectively ends the Giants chances of contending (yes giantsrainman, I am blinded by hate)
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 4:32 PM PDT reply actions
One thing to keep in mind is Alderson’s K rate was 6.9 at San Jose and is 5.7 in Connecticut. I still think we could have improved at 2B without giving him up but it’s not like Alderson will become Matt Cain someday. He will have to rely on keeping his walk rate under 2 per 9 in the majors while keeping the ball in the yard.
Also his WHIP at San Jose is 1.24 and at Connecticut is 1.31.
Sanchez is a 3+ wins a year player coming to position where we haven’t been able to field a replacement level player.
It’s clearly an upgrade for the rest of this year and next year. Only time will tell if Alderson turns into a Joel Piniero type player which at this time I see as his ceiling. Odds are always against a player hitting his ceiling.
by sanfranfan on Jul 29, 2009 4:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
haha my first reaction when I saw the name Alderson in the text from my friend was Hell No here comes AJ Pierzynski all over again. Then I stepped back and looked at the numbers and calmed down. If other GMs valued Alderson as highly as Baseball America did we could have gotten a little more in my opinion. I do think BA overvalued him though.
Everyone also tends to overrate homegrown talents just because we’ve been envisioning the 2012 Giants being the first team to allow fewer than 100 runs for a couple of years.
what you seem to not comprehend
is that while he may not succeed, his value in terms of a trade is significantly higher than that of an operpaid 31 year old with injury concerns. this trade is so terrible for that alone.
Cain is Able ...
I’m not sure it is though. We’re not sure what kind of offers Sabean got for Alderson. Maybe the other teams looked at his performance this year and wrote off his stuff..we don’t know for sure.
this is the best point made in favor so far.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
ok I'm gonna stop posting
I’m already wildly overreacting and pretty soon I’m gonna start saying some really lol stuff
Kevin Pucetas lurks in the shadows, waiting for his time to shine.
Sheesh
I’m blown away how universally negative people are on this trade. Proven major leaguer whose an improvement at 2nd base. Alderson may end up being Satchel Paige, but there’s a far greater chance he won’t pan out.
What about the argument: If you can get a proven major leaguer for a minor leaguer, take the trade (with some exceptions, of course). You’ll get burned 30% of the time, but you come out ahead more often than not. Alderson is all just ML potential at this point. Sanchez is what he is.
People here are always really negative, unless we’re really really happy. This place keeps the makers of lithium based medications in business.
by Merope on Jul 29, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
guys, at the end of the day, we can all unite and LOL at the dodgers
since Schmidt will be starting Friday against the Braves
With Malice Towards Maria Shriver
Question:
If we can’t resign him, do we get draft picks if signed by someone else?
Welcome to the Warriors, Stephen Curry, the 2009 NBA Rookie of the Year.
Panda's and Curry in the Bey Area. Who would've known?
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
no
only if we offer arb. And in arb, odds are he will do better than the $8M on his option.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
not only that
Even if we were dumb enough to offer him arb – there’s no way another team signs him and loses a top round pick for him.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
until Wheeler gets here
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Who's that?
Some scrub?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Honestly, I would be freaking out about this much less if it weren’t for the “OMGMadBum’s velocity!” frenzy last night.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jul 29, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Since we’re on the subject someone should tell her that under no circumstances should she ever interview Eugenio Velez after the game. Never. Ever. That was painful today.
by I own a Kayak and I'm not sure why now on Jul 29, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Amy G > Ralph
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
can’t listen to either one, but at least Amy G doesn’t make me go blind.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Amy has boobs. Point Amy
Ralph has boo..err
Nevermind
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 29, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
this guy is a 3 time all-star and career .300 hitter. he’s just 31 and fills out biggest hole. why all the whining?
by justhangin on Jul 29, 2009 4:35 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
It’s great we got an injured Sanchez. Just saying we overpaid for him in Alderson
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 29, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
every team gets all-stars, even Pittsburgh. It’s not a real significant selling point. He hits .300, but doesn’t do much else.
Yes, he’s definitely an upgrade at 2b. I’m glad to have him, but we gave up too much get him and his bloated contract. We could have had Orlando Hudson for much less w/o giving up prospects in the offseason but never even made a play.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Giants have to play Bowker every day. They desperately need some power and he like their only hope, no matter how slim.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
Ok , play Winn and Freddy and Torres then. Good luck..
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d rather turn present day Bonds loose
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 29, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
So I've calmed down a little bit from the initial rage
I’m still not happy, but at least I can type now.
1) We are a better team right now than we were an hour ago. I’m convinced that this is true.
2) I am ok with acquiring Freddy sanchez. I was ok with trading Alderson. I am just upset that they were traded for each other. I thought we could have gotten more than 1.5 years of Freddy Sanchez, but apparently I was wrong.
3) The red flags were there for Tim Alderson. Maybe as a Giants fan I’m blinded with love, and I choose to ignore them, but the “back end of the rotation starter” “no plus fastball” “pitching backward” propoganda is all coming back now.
4) I still don’t like this deal. I still hate a salary dump turning into top 5 prospect, but I’m willing to step back a little bit and recognize that with 60 somewhat games to go, this might be enough to go with our pitching to earn us a ticket to the playoffs. Who knows? We now have 2 options that might hit .400 BABIP for the rest of he year, right?
I feel like I have just pushed all in on the turn with Aces Up, opponent is staring at me, and it’s too late to take back now. What does he have? What will the river bring?
We’ll find out in the next 8 weeks.
by jctGamer on Jul 29, 2009 4:36 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
wow
how did you get so calm so fast!?!? it actually sounds reasonable
He’s just slow rolling you. He called you pre flop raise w/ 84 suited and is now sitting on a flush.
Do not meddle in the affairs of GM's, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
by cybermaldonado on Jul 29, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I haven't been able to read this whole thread
But this is correct.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
I Like Freddie Alot. That Said, Sabes Overpaid By More Then I Am Comforable With.
by giantsrainman on Jul 29, 2009 4:36 PM PDT reply actions 8 recs
HOLY SHIT. EVEN RAINMAN DOESN’T LIKE THE DEAL
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jul 29, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
DAMN, I'M GIVE GRM A "THIS" REPLY
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
wow
I think I just saw Satan getting a jacket and scarf
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I TRUST THE OPINIONS OF THE GIANTS SCOUTS MORE THAN YOURS
Sorry, but you had it coming.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 30, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Piratates Blog here at SB
Isnt sure if this was a good deal for the pirates…
Garlic fries 08
by operation carrot on Jul 29, 2009 4:38 PM PDT reply actions
it’s a fantastic deal for the pirates.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
wait what? wtf do they want from us???
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 29, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I think they wanted Sabes to throw in Amy G.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
welcome to baseball blogs
they are overvaluing their guy just like we are
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fuck you Sabean
Honestly, how can you not be better at trading than this.
The Pirates were fucking salary dumping Sanchez! Why would you take on ALL the salary AND give them a top 5 prospect out of our system?
You can’t be this fucking stupid, can you?
LinceCain and pray for rain .... or for someone to take Zito off our hands.
but he is
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Obviously ...
Yes.
LinceCain and pray for rain .... or for someone to take Zito off our hands.
My .02
I don’t have so much of an issue with Alderson being traded. I don’t think he was ever going to be a top of the rotation starter. But that said it’s a poor trade because he should be able to bring back a lot more than Freddy Sanchez. With Barnes gone as well we now have almost no starting pitching depth in the minor leagues and only have Sanchez and Garko to show for it. Very poor planning on Sabean’s part.
guys, this also gives us much more opportunities to photoshop Dirty Sanchez's on opposing players
With Malice Towards Maria Shriver
So much for pitching depth
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
as upset as you were with the Garko deal, this one might be worth considering suicide over
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
to me...
I’d do the Garko deal 8x before this one. I’d have rather kept Barnes than a marginal upgrade that could be had for free, but at least Barnes isn’t Alderson…
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Craig Clark would say hi.
But he’s too busy being rad.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
And Ben Snyder isn't dead!
(this joke only funny because he really isn’t dead)
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
I stand by my comment. Outside of Bucardo and Wheeler, that’s an underwhelming group.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
Gotta say, outside his age relative to league...
…Alderson was pretty underwhelming, too.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
This is true.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
I agree
And age relative to league is deceptive. The idea is that a younger player would grow into his frame and add velocity or power. Alderson hasn’t done that this year. This isn’t to say that Alderson won’t do it in the future but if the Giants had their hands on him for a year with little to no improvement I wouldn’t bank on it. If there’s one thing the Giants do well it’s developing pitchers.
Also a young pitching prospect is especially risky since many consider the injury nexus for a pitcher to be around age 20/21.
In short age isn’t necessarily a big advantage here.
by RougeGorrila on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, ARL I find to be much less important for pitchers.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
What?
You don’t like 4th/5th starters and 7th/8th inning relievers, plus MadBum? oh wait..
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
What the hell do we call him? We already have a Fred, and we already have a Sanchez
Billy Ripken is not a fuck face
Franchez
They say you're a pitcher; you sure aren't much of a dresser.
by CystedTwister on Jul 29, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
“you know”
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Way too late for that
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jul 29, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
God
I kinda got a sick feeling…I know everyone is talking about if and maybe, but honestly, Alderson if he had stuck in San Fran would have been a perfect 4 starter with a 4.00 ERA for cheap for 5-6 years. Def worth more than a 31 year old second baseman who OPSed .669 last year and has yet to have an OPS over .800 in his career.
Buster Posey is a sure thing. Neal is gonna be great. AnVil and MadBum who knows. But Alderson while his ceiling was limited, was pretty much assured of getting to 4th starter status…and we lost that for Ray Durham lite
At least he plays better D than Ray-Ray, right?
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jul 29, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Buster Posey is a sure thing. Neal is gonna be great.
settle down
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
back in '93 the giants passed on Randy Johnson because they wouldn't give up Solomon Torres... there is no gaurantee with these minor league pitchers...
…
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
are you comparing sanchez to randy johnson
The only difference is that one player was a monster who posted 300 strikeouts and a 3.2 era and the other was an allstar by default. Sanchez is a 31 year old, injured, overpaid, overrated player, who plays decent defense.
He would have probably been a free agent at the end of the season because the Pirates couldn’t afford him. In what world is Alderson worth a 2 month rental of a broken player?
from his Wikipedia:
His success in high school was nothing short of miraculous. Sanchez was born with a severely pigeon-toed left foot and a club right foot, and his parents had received a medical diagnosis that he might never walk. He underwent surgery to correct his foot problems at 13 months, and then had to undergo years of physical therapy before he could walk properly.1
Billy Ripken is not a fuck face
oh shit for real? or made up wikishit?
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 29, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Pie would have made you feel better
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 29, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
You know what would have been fun?
Trading Nate and a couple other guys on top of Alderson for Alex Rios. That I could have handled.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
YEP
he wasn’t overpaid, and we get an actual impact bat and good defense.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree that he isn’t overpaid, but he’s not really a bargain either. That seems like a similarly bad trade to me.
Thing A
I'm not really saying it's a bargain either
I’m just saying that if we’re going to trade Alderson, I’d rather give up a little more talent to get a better player than Sanchez.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
besides... once alderson is any good we can get him back when pittsburgh can't afford him...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Wow. Great minds, yadda yadda yadda.
by David A. Arnott on Jul 29, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
no pittsburgh is the affiliate for the yankees i think
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 29, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Velez
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I meant that he’ll be DFA’d to make room on the 40 man. I just pushed post too soon
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis.
Stages of reacting to this trade.
1 — Not Alderson!!! (Denial)
2 — Can’t we get a redo of the Frandsen package? (Bargaining)
3 — Well, Sanchez is still a pretty good player. Hey, and Alderson’s strikeouts took a fall this year… (Talking myself into it)
4 — Ah, who cares? We’ll just trade for him again when the Pirates can’t afford him in 2016. He’ll be our fourth starter behind five time Cy Young winner Tim Lincecum, three time All Star Matt Cain, and a Reclaimed/Rejuvenated Boof Bonser. (Acceptance)
by David A. Arnott on Jul 29, 2009 4:42 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
calm down people
this trade is not that bad. we had a gaping hole at 2b, it is now filled and will be for at least one more year. yes we had to give up alderson, but ya gotta give something to get something. he is a proven veteran, all star.
i don’t get a lot of people on here. you all want sabean to make moves, but you aren’t willing to give up any top prospects. unless, it is for a player that is unrealistically unattainable. how do you expect sabean to acquire anybody of value if you don’t want him to give up anybody other than the players that have showed they aren’t major league ready or aren’t named bumgarner, posey, villalona, noonan, neal, alderson, etc? sure other teams acquired quality players for peanuts, but every gm/organization has different reasons they made those deals. unfortunately, we weren’t in a position to make that kind of a deal. you can’t expect to give up crap to get something great. that’s an unreal expectation.
our starting pitching will be fine! with timmy, and cain, and madbum on the way. we have plenty of pitching prospects, plus it is more likely for us to acquire a vet pitcher via free agency than it is a big time offensive player.
gives sabes a break! his job ain’t easy! if it was, we’d all be turning in applications. hindshight is 20/20. let’s give it time and see how this plays out.
by Do_the_research on Jul 29, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
He has a great point though
All i hear on here is “GET TO WORK SABEAN AND GET US A HITTER!!” And once we trade a prospect its the worst trade ever.
chill
all i am saying is every gm is gonna make mistakes at some point in his tenure with a team, he’s made his share, but he’s done good too! however, no one praises him for all the good he has done for the organization.
by Do_the_research on Jul 29, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
why don't you "do the research"
you’d probably realize that all non-biased individuals (read fangraphs) have come to the conclusion we way overpaid.
Reasons Sanchez is overrated: Always injured including right now, 31 years old, little power, no walks, marginally better defense than replacement, makes 8 million dollars next year (more than he’s worth)
We should have gotten him for free if Pitt didn’t want to eat part of the contract.
why don't you "calm down"
how did we overpay? we’ll pay him 2 million this year, not a huge loss. next year 8 million, that is fine by me. i say this because our depth at 2b is minimal, if not non existant ( buriss, velez, downs, noonan, etc.) none of those guys should be starting at 2b in the mlb. noonan has the potential, but he needs more development and is probably 2 years aways min. if we tried to acquire a 2b this offseason, it would be slim pickn’s, and unlikely.
on to your " reasons sanchez is overrated".
always injured? i hardly call missing 15 games in a season always injured. 157, 147, 145 games played over the last 3 years. there was 05 where he only played 132. i don’t know if he got called up late, or what, but that was his 1st full season. now joe crede, he is always injured. ken griffey jr with the reds, always injured, and so on.
31 is not that old, it’s not like we’re locked in to a 7 year contract. we are committed to him until he is 32! again, not that old.
power, to me, is overrated! just ask this years blue jays, indians, and brewers, all of whom are in the top half of the team leaders in home runs, yet, still boast a sub.500 record.
no walks, but still is a career .300 hitter.
marginally better defense, is still just that, better.
yes, we gave up a quality pitching prospect, but i am pretty sure you would agree that the most realistic scenario is Alderson would be a #4 starter and more than likely wouldn’t be up until late 2010, and that is a big maybe. i believe finding a future #4/5 starter will be much easier than trying to fill our huge need at 2b. we have many pitching prospects that can potentially fill that void, if not, and again i say this… it is much easier to sign a cheap/quality vet #4/5 starter via free agency than signing a cheap/quality vet position player.
bottom line, our need for a 2b outweighs our need for pitching… that is why the move was made.
by Do_the_research on Jul 29, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
From Bucs Dugout:
Brian Sabean = the new Dave Littlefield (except Sabean’s team is actually in contention)
I am El Person and I ¢¾ this message.
not like we traded him to a team he is gonna retire with
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
now sanchez with greg papa
This guys sure has a lot of interviews today
With Malice Towards Maria Shriver
Okay, I'm going to say this real quick, since I'm on break from work.
This was the right time to trade Alderson.
I saw Alderson multiple times the last two years, and frankly, the track was NOT right. His velocity was down significantly seeing him in Connecticut. His motion had gone through a significantly bad change at some point, which seemed to be affecting three things: Motion on his fastball, his control, and his velocity.
And other scouts were seeing it.
I don’t know as much about Sanchez at the moment, but for Alderson, this was a good sell-high time.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Jul 29, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
your wisdom
warms the cackles of my heart. a little bit. i’m still on record as this being a bad deal.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I haven’t seen him first hand like you have, but I’m willing to bank on your observations and the Giants internal opinion on Alderson being correct than some of the negative nancy’s on here. The Giants trading history trading away highly regarded pitching prospects has been very good under Sabean’s tenure.
Boof Bonser, Liriano (other than 3 months), Aardsma (good this year, but bad with Cubs and Red Sox), Felix Diaz, Jason Grilli, Nate Bump….Ryan Vogelsong, Kurt Ainsworth….etc.
no problem with trading Alderson, but I wanted MORE for him and strongly believe that we could have gotten MORE for him.
Mechanical stuff can be ironed out.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t go that far, but I think we gave up too much to allow the Pirates to salary dump Sanchez on us. If we got a lot of money back, then it’d be more palatable, but straight up is just not good. But bottom line: bad trade.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Or it could be that a mechanical tweak could get him back on track, and the Giants in fact dealt him at the very moment when his value was lowest.
+1
The guy’s velocity was down and yet he was still succeeding at levels above himself. I’d rather fix the problem on a very, very promising 20 year old than settle for a decentish player whose value should sink from here on out
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks, Brute.
I saw Alderson pitch earlier in the year at SJ with the McCoven. Everything that was hit was hit hard. I’m no scout and it was just one game but I was thoroughly underwhelmed. I don’t like the trade that much but I also thought he was a bit overrated…
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
they are so pleased over there, and I would be too
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
They’re already rosterbating their future rotation with Tim
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 29, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Trade Talks
SABEAN: We want Sanchez..
PIT: Ok, we’ll need Alderson.
S: No way. untouchable.
Next Day..
S: We wanna get Sanchez
P: We’ll do it for Alderson.
S: Cant do it.
Next day..
S: We want Sanchez.
P: We’d do it for Alderson.
S: DEAL!!
S: Professional hitter for worthless minor leaguer. Steal.
by kvdp12 on Jul 29, 2009 4:46 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Payback for Jason Schmidt and Matt Morris.
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m picturing Bart and Lisa: “Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now? Can we have Tim Alderson now?”
No
They root for Capital City.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 29, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Sanchez or no Sanchez, Alderson or no Alderson, Wilson is gonna keep walking peeps.
I don’t see the problem.
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 4:46 PM PDT reply actions
I'm a plumbist.
Pipe down , willya?
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 29, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Wanna see my tool?
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 29, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Now you're marked for life.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
If Sanchez sucks the rest of the year
you guys will get what you want. A new GM (even though it was signed off by the Duke and Baer).
I doubt it...
but I’d sacrifice Timmy part 2 to get that done
by NeifiChicken on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
How does the "Man In The Street" feel?
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 29, 2009 4:48 PM PDT reply actions
its not THAT bad
thats the depth of my analysis at this point. I just hate having to say that about a trade, because it means its still bad. Ah well. go go playoff run.
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 29, 2009 4:49 PM PDT reply actions
No, it's a horrible trade
This is the very definition of a horrible trade. You give up a potential star for a past-his-prime veteran. A modest upgrade offensively short term, for a top prospect. It’s a horrible trade. It’s Bagwell for Larry Anderson. It’s Frank Duffy for George Foster. It’s awful.
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
its a fair deal. what do we need more? an all star 2B who bats .300 or a 3rd #4 starter after tim, matt and bumg. thats an easy call.
Still batting 4th for your San Francisco Giants…… BENGIE MOLINAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
But how will we overcome our offensive woes without six starting pitchers?
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
All Star status is so retarded.
Orlando Hudson was an all star this year, so was Shane Victorino. Pablo Sandoval was not. People need to stop saying “OMGz!! We haz an ALL STAR!”
Haven’t heard anything at all. I’ve been checking the BA signing list occasionally for an update but haven’t seen anything. I have to assume the Giants will not allow Zack Wheeler to walk away, especially seeing as the Giants will most likely not have a high draft pick next year.
he's going to sign for overslot
that means that the team will have to wait until probably the last week before the commissioner accepts the contract.
Are Sanchez and Garko world beaters – no. Are they improvements over what we had at first and second -yes. Will they turn the Giants into a juggernaught on offense – no; will they improve the offense – yes. Will they improve the offense enough to get to the playoffs and be successful in the playoffs – well that is the $64,000 question isn’t it. Let us hope that they do. Let us not get too excited that Sanchez has been an All star, after all he was probably the Pirates only All Star and likely that due to the requirement that each team have an All Star. Was giving up Alderson too much – I don’t know – I was upset to hear that they had to depart with him, but it make the drafting of Zach Wheeler and the necessity to sign him now and get him playing a bit more important.
Does this mean Aurilia's done starting games? Cuz then THAT would be worth it.
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 4:52 PM PDT reply actions
I can’t imagine he is on the team much longer
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
by High_On_Lincecum's_Godliness on Jul 29, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
A request....
Can people stop citing Sanchez’s batting average? The stat, well, it’s just not very helpful.
OPS ain’t perfect, but it’s better at conveying how effective someone is at the plate.
Sanchez’s 2009 OPS: .776
2008 league average OPS: .749
dude is marginally better than average at the plate.
also, All-Star: meaningless.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
THANK YOU
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that average OPS for a second baseman, or for all players?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
So shouldn’t Sanchez get a little extra credit for playing a tough position?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Better yet, cite his WAR, by which he’s a very good player!
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 29, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Dammit all to hell
This was an awful trade. Sanchez is gonna be out for a few games. Does Sabean know that, in theory, injuries lower a players trade value? O and I swear if I hear 1 more person praise Sabean for aquiring a “professional hitter” i’m gonna break something
Grab Some Pine Meat!
we need consistent professional hitters more than power. you want more power than just put sandoval on nutrisystem for 2 yrs and he’ll be even more of a beast
– CRASH! –
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 30, 2009 2:43 AM PDT up reply actions
– SMASH! –
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 30, 2009 2:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
Sucks that we had to get rid of Alderson… BUT, we needed a 2nd base big time… I was tired of seeing Uribe out there fuckin shit up. Now that we have an all star 2nd basemen with RANGE, and somewhat of a bat, hopefully we can bring out team BA up. I think the Giants did well this week with the pick up of Garko and Sanchez. I think that with the development of J. Sanchez over the next few years, this trade will look like candy corn compared to what we could have lost, IF Alderson doesnt turn into a top 1, 2, 3 rotation SP in the Majors.
"..." - unknown
by SetoThorMarChooSki on Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM PDT reply actions
You make the mistake of assuming “that we had to get rid of Alderson” to get Sanchez. Sanchez was a salary dump by the Pirates. There was no way they wanted to be forced to pay him $8M next year when he reached 600 ABs this year – that was a gaurantee unless Sanchez got hurt.
Let me put it this way. If you have $1M and you go out and knowingly spend $300K on something that somebody is willing to sell for $100K, then isn’t it a non-sensical excuse to say, “But I had plenty of money to spend.” Especially when it’s not for your personal use, but rather it’s something for the business that you run – a business in which all the other employees depend on you to make good decisions on.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
You see
all of that would be relevant if there were actually a salary cap in baseball… You gotta lose something to get something… That’s just the way it is, unless you have the Giant’s payroll memorized or an MBA of your own… Then all of this nonsensical musing doesn’t prove a point worth arguing about.
"..." - unknown
by SetoThorMarChooSki on Jul 29, 2009 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
remember, we have lincecum, cain and madbum….we dont need a top 1, 2, 3 rotation SP since 1,2,3 are full
WAT
We need all the best pitching we can get
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
to overcome our offensive woahs
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 30, 2009 2:45 AM PDT up reply actions
woahw.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 30, 2009 2:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Uh...
What?
So what?
Wait seriously huh?
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
Or money
But the Mariners got both with their middle infielder
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Just curious
I keep seeing references to Alderson as a top 50 prospect. That’s obviously based on BA (and perhaps others) rankings, but do we know if that’s still true? Does BA do mid-season updates? Not that it necessarily matters a great deal.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
They just did a mid season Top 25 which Alderson obviously wasn’t in, but I’d imagine he’d sneak in the Top 50. Just for comparison, the Red Sox just traded two players who weren’t in their organizations Top 30 for Adam LaRoche. That’s where the markets at right now. How much greater a trading chip do we think Freddy Sanchez is than Adam LaRoche?
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I think what you meant to say is
his on base percentage is a mesely .334 and he plays a marginally above average second base.
For me, the saddest thing about this trade
Is that we totally SHOULD have traded for Sanchez, and we totally SHOULD have traded Alderson.
Just not for each other.
I hope trading season isn’t over. If this is it, then the Giants are half-assing it. We still need a cleanup hitter.
I choose to watch the Giants try to score runs. Not because it is easy, but because it is hard.
A surprising realization
I just remembered that after the Garko trade was announced 2 days ago Sabean was quoted as saying something along the lines of “we have a minor league player that some team is trying to decide if they want.”
It just blows me away that the Pirates FO didn’t jump on the Alderson offer right away. They actually sat on it for at least 24 hours (maybe longer since we don’t know if he was on the table before Monday). Wow, what a chance they were taking. Unless they had another team on the hook that was also chacing Sanchez they really gambled that Sabes wouldn’t back out or get a better offer.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Another point to consider
There’s another big thing about this trade that pisses me off. Young minor league pitchers go through ups-and-downs while working their way to the majors. Even the most gifted have setbacks (look at Kyle Drabek and Matt Cain off the top of my head). IMO, at this exact moment Alderson was at the most, or at least one of the most, lowest points in his development, so his trade value was at it’s lowest. Sabean was stupid enough to trade him now – a classic buy high/sell low mistake. If he really had such a yearning to trade Alderson, he should have at least had the fortitude and knowledge to wait until he was back on an upswing (and there’s no doubt he will have one sometime in the next year or 2).
The real kick in the nuts thing is that, even at this low point in his value cycle, Alderson was still worth more than a 31 year old salary dump 2B, that will be gone after next year for no compensation (no way will we offer him arb).
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Fuck this team. That’s it, I was a slight sabean believer, but no more. Pitchfork time. We just lost 2 of our top…5? pitching prospects, and we still have a pretty punchless offense.
The only explanation is that sabean announced to all the other GMs “Hey guys, since Sue Burns died, we’re going to go for it this year to honor her with a world series, so we’ll trade you whatever you want for, like, Freddy Sanchez.”
My feelings about this season just went from “Please compete, playoffs would be awesome” to “get to NLCS at least”. Otherwise, this trade will still piss me off as much as the martis-stanton or accardo-hillenbrand recent trades (won’t mention that other trade).
VOTE SANDOVAL
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
I’d be cool with this trade if Sanchez didn’t have a strained MCL. What’s hard to take, is that most reports had Sanchez coming to the Giants for Merkin Valdez or Jesus Guzman, which was a steal for us… then it turns out we have to give up a top 5 prospect and the guy we get has a bad knee?
The truth, is that 2nd base was the most glaring need for the Giants, next to needing power. This is a good trade, due to the surplus we have at pitching, and the fact that we generally stick with young pitchers in the draft.
If the Giants make it to the post season, then it’s worth trading these players this week… either of the two trades we have made… and that’s despite how the prospects we gave up will do in the future… THE REASON IS THAT THE GIANTS HAVE NOT HAD A GOOD TEAM IN 6 SEASONS. We have to stop that trend now…. and basically giving up prospects makes it just that much more expensive.
The other decent part of this trade, is that by the time Alderson comes up to the BIGS and makes a name for himself, the Pirates will be just about ready to trade him…. and the Giants will be right there to welcome him back.. hahahahaha.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on McCovey Chronicles
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
- Robinson Cano and Denzel Washington face off in Jay Leno’s Yankees trivia contest
- Shane Victorino lands role on ‘Hawaii Five-0′
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
