Goldstein on MadBum: Panic Time?

I wonder if he’s injured…

Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on Jul 28, 2009 8:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

That’s what I infer from that. I’m sure Goldstein will include him in the ML update tomorrow with more details.

by KCE on Jul 28, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll just go ahead and cut and paste what I wrote in the minor lines thread

Actually his removal and his ejection happened simultaneously. Not sure if there’s some history to all this, but here’s what happened. The first batter of the 2nd inning, Paco Figueroa stepped out late on Bumgarner o disrupt his timing. On the next pitch, Madison buzzed him right under the chin. Later in the inning, Paco’s twin brother Danny Figueroa called time (and was granted it) as Bumgarner was delivering a pitch. On his next delivery Madison unleashed a fastball two or three feet behind the batter and he was run. Seems Madison has a nasty streak, which I kinda like.

The rest of this stuff I don’t like. First off, the one AB with Figueroa cost two pitchers, because Ben Snyder came in to take over for Bumgarner and his very first pitch he got a Joey Martinez redux and it was really pretty sickening. Ben ended up walking off on (mostly) his own power and didn’t seem to be bleeding much, but he was flopping around in a very scary way for a couple of minutes. The ball, after hitting Snyder went almost straight up like a major league pop up, so I guess it caught mostly the crown of his head, which is a lot harder than the face. Still, I’m guessing he’s spending the night in Bowie Hospital.

Secondly, Bumgarner. I was sitting among a crowd of scouts, so I got a view of at least 4 radar guns every pitch (and lol do those things vary — the guy in front of me would be would 3 MPH faster on one pitch and 2 MPH slower than everybody the next — but that was mostly with Radames Liz, who was throwing much harder than everybody else).

Bumgarner threw very consistently 89-90 MPH. Only once on one gun did he hit 91. He had no swing throughs, threw relatively few breaking balls (about once per AB he’d throw I guess a slider, though a very slow one that functioned more as a change), and got hit hard. But the hit hard part was mostly command issues. He threw I guess a 2 seamer that bore in on RH, but tonight it was mostly boring over the middle of the plate.

I’m ready to say that his lowered K numbers this year are related to lowered velocity. Several of the scouts were talking about this, and three of them said that they’d recorded him last year working consistently in the 94-95 range.

Interestingly, the guy in front of me said he wasn’t that worried about it, because Bumgarner’s arm action was still good, his velocity was very easy, and "you could see there was a lot more in there." He said it’s probably just a lot of innings on a young body, and once he matures physically and gets stronger it will come back. And generally, that a sudden loss of velocity isn’t as much a red flag on a 19 year old in AA as it would be on a mid 20 or 30 something year old in the majors.

That said, if I heard the Giants were shutting Madison down for a while with a strained something or a sore something, I wouldn’t think it was the worst news in the world.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 28, 2009 9:05 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs

Wow, good info. Thank you.

by KCE on Jul 28, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

I literally just walked in the door from the game. It was a debacle in about every way imaginable. Ramon Castro, Defenders 3B, got the save in a 13-12 11-inning game, only giving up one run and throwing 75 mph cheese. C Tyler LaTorre was warming up because there was literally no one left in the ’pen. Bowie committed 6 errors, and it should have been more like 8. Ugly.

Bumgarner definitely underwhelmed, getting almost all FOs, and looking very tentative with the breaking stuff. He also let the Figueroa brothers get in his head. That whole episode was both alarming with his lack of composure and encouraging with his mean streak. It was only one start, but I would definitely expect to see him shut down before the middle of August if tonight was any indication.

The Snyder episode was almost Joe Martinez redux, although he did get some leather on the ball, it was not enough to prevent the sickeningly inevitable ball to the face.

I hope Alderson’s pinpoint control is on display tomorrow night. I’d like to be encouraged by one Giants prospect not named Brock Bond.

by GiantsTribe on Jul 28, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bowie put on the worst defensive display I’ve ever seen outside a Knot hole league, didn’t they? I remember at one time looking at the scoreboard and seeing they had 4 errors and I got totally confused because I already had 8 in my scorecard at that time. Can’t figure out which of the 3B various boots and flings weren’t errors — one of them almost sent a lady in the stands to the hospital.

Glad EME got the winning HR, because I had been thinking for a few innings, that for a game with 30 (later 40) hits, his out to CF was the hardest sounding hit the whole night (with the possible exception of that HR Torrealba hit into the Severn River off Madbum).

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 28, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The kicker is, that 3B won EL ASG MVP about two weeks ago as a 2B, and he’s actually pretty good defensively when they leave him there. The scorekeeper was extremely lenient on him tonight, probably knowing that there’s no way to note more than 9 errors for one team on the score board.

Torrealba just stopped and stared at that thing as it went over too. That probably didn’t make MadBum real happy to have a guy fawning over his handiwork like that. Crozier’s blast cleared everything in center, and it’s not real often that I’ve seen that happen. It’s really too bad Esteve’s had so many injuries, he certainly can mash.

by GiantsTribe on Jul 28, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well it was Torrealba’s 1st wasn’t it — he was probably surprised with what he’d done.

So where were you — you weren’t the guy heckling at the hecklers along the first base line were you — he was cracking me up.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 28, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I actually work in the Bowie front office, so I was all over the place during the game. I was in the press box for MadBum’s innings and the Griffin incident. Given my position, I can’t really openly root for one team or the other usually. That’s why I like it so much when the Giants show up at Nats Park and Camden Yards once every decade.

Torrealba was one of Wieters’ back-ups last season, so he was here last season. Dude has some coffee in the bigs, so he carries himself a bit high. I did like it when he came out for Crozier’s curtain call though. We were dying when that happened.

by GiantsTribe on Jul 28, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very cool. So maybe you’d know this — I counted 7 guys with guns in the scout section, but just from listening to their conversations most of them seemed to be Orioles guys (and definitely 4 of them were, because I could see the names on their sheets and they were all BaySox players). Do the O’s typically have that many of their own scouts covering their teams?

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 28, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The close proximity really makes it easy for the Orioles to send down scouts all the time, so if there were 7 there tonight, there must have been 10-15 last night with Matusz. I’ve seen the farm director, McPhail, assistant GMs, etc. behind the plate in the last couple of years. The Orioles’ young pitching has certainly made it fun to watch the last year and a half.

Liz may be in line for a promotion back to AAA with Tillman going to Baltimore tomorrow night. He doesn’t belong in AA anymore, that’s for sure. The scouts probably wanted to see if he’d learned to pitch and not just throw since he’s been down.

by GiantsTribe on Jul 28, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great updates guys...

…he’s at 95 innnings this year. Could this have been a dead arm episode?

"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean

by Smotheredinhugs on Jul 29, 2009 5:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure...

It was only one start, and an extremely short one at that. I’m not freaking out at all, just noting that I was unimpressed after having the kid pumped up for so long.

Once it becomes the norm, then I’ll be concerned.

by GiantsTribe on Jul 29, 2009 5:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's great info

Answers a lot of questions, as the play-by-play guy is not really that descriptive. He’s at 95 innings already, after putting up 141.2 last year, so it might no be a bad idea to shut him down.

by superk1ng on Jul 28, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks very much for this report...

Answers a few questions.

I’ll talk to the media guy with CT and see if I can get a health report on Snyder as soon as it’s available.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•

by BruteSentiment on Jul 28, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was also going to say...

Alderson also has had a surprisingly lower velocity at CT, compared with what he was throwing in San Jose, so now I’m curious. I was also going off of scout guns, rather than the ridiculous stadium gun. The same caveats on a loss of velocity with a teenager apply, but for both of them? Hm…

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•

by BruteSentiment on Jul 28, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you see Bumgarner when you were in CT Brute? What was he throwing then?

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 28, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I did not. I was there right before the All-Star Break, and he was already off to St. Louis.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•

by BruteSentiment on Jul 28, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The ghost of Jesse Foppert.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jul 28, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Banned!

by briandean on Jul 29, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the report. It’s good to have someone there firsthand. I had to write a brief blurb on the game for deadline tonight and all I can glean is that Bumgarner was ejected and Ben Snyder got his bell rung.

Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 28, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Goldstein is a master of hyperbole

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 28, 2009 9:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

ZOMG MADBUM IMPLOSION!!!!!11

"Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?" / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Jul 29, 2009 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

MATT WIETERS IS THE BEST CATCHER IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TODAY!!!!

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Goldstein replied to an email I sent to him that included a paraphrase of some of Roger’s comments and he essentially said the same things Roger did (88-89, awful command), though he did downplay the innings thing since he isn’t even at 100 for the season. Bumgarner will be the lead in tomorrow’s Minor League Update at BP.

by KCE on Jul 28, 2009 9:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually the conversation was more about the innings from last year affecting him this year. IIRC, somebody else on this blog said something about Bumgarner working in the 89-90 range in a game in the Cal League back in April in Lancaster or someplace, which is why I assumed the velocity was more or less a season long issue (while the command was probably more recent).

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 28, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So was Goldstein there tonight? He must have been one of the guys in that group around me if so.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 28, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He said he talked to a scout in attendance.

by KCE on Jul 29, 2009 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

1. I’m not sure if this applies to MadBum, but some pitchers take an inning or 2 to get warmed up before their velocity reaches its peak. And even if this isn’t the norm for him, every once in a while anybody can start a game a bit “off”. Because he didn’t get to pitch past the middle of the 2nd inning, we’ll never know if his velocity would have increased.

2. MadBum hasn’t been throwing this slowly before this start. If he had somebody would have reported it, and his results would have suffered greatly. There’s no way a guy throwing 85% FBs that top out at only 90 would have the stats that he’s compiled over 13 games at AA.

3. We know for a fact that he was pitching in the 94 mph range in ST and in SJ earlier this year, because we had several concurring reports to confirm it.

4. Until we hear differently we should assume that he just didn’t warm-up properly, or his mechanics got out of whack tonight. He’s only pitched 97 innings so far this year – last year he pitched 141 with no problems. Given the innings pitched stat, the only way a case could be made for him being tired or overworked this year was if he was throwing a lot more pitches in each start this year. But we know that’s not true, because he’s been on such a strict pitch count this year that he’s rarely come anywhere near throwing 100 pitches in any 1 game.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 28, 2009 10:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting, interesting

SHUT HIM DOWN IMMEDIATELY

by Alex_Lewis on Jul 28, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The reason for caution is not that he has thrown 97 innings this year, it’s the fact that he has gone from being a High School pitcher to pitching 238 innings over the last two years at age 18 and 19. That is quite a bit to ask of a young arm. One start is nothing to overreact to (Goldstein saying “panic” is laughable) but the number of innings are certainly worth monitoring and not dismissing as “only” 97 this year.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 28, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1 on #2. As I’ve said elsewhere, my biggest concern on him is that he’s been using the fastball to whiz through this level (especially at Dodd where said if you miss with said fastball it ends up in someone’s glove) and not working on the secondary pitches he needs to be a true frontline starter in the majors.

I’d also point out that if he was having significant command problems most every pitching coach in the world would tell someone to drop velocity to try to get some of it back.

However, I’d also say that those who are keenly interested in hoping for him to be the hero on the white horse for a September run are a. not paying as much attention to the 40 man situation as they need to be and b. not paying as much attention to the fact he really shouldn’t be throwing a whole bunch of extra innings after the AA season shuts down.

by HaroldS on Jul 28, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah Lowry pt.2?

that said… not worried.

by kvdp12 on Jul 28, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually, this news

about MadBum has been making the rounds of the scouts and other teams for about two weeks now. His name hasn’t been coming up as much in the trade talks as has Posey and Alderson, with Neal a little behind them.

Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.

by Al Rosen on Jul 28, 2009 11:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Even if people are concerned with MadBum, I can’t imagine people would prefer Alderson to him. Nothing against Alderson.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Jul 28, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

His name hasn’t been coming up as much in the trade talks as has Posey and Alderson, with Neal a little behind them

I seriously doubt that

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I only saw Mad Bum once in Stockton

Wasn’t a good game…. I was talking to the A’s scout with the gun behind the plate and Mad Bum was mosty high 80’s topping out about 93 and he emphasized topping out….
That being said, I wouldn’t worry if its just a start here and there…. if his mechanics were a little off that night he could lose a few MPH….. of course you start talking about pain or a few starts in a row and then maybe we have a problem….

I my comments with pics back in april on another site
http://com3.runboard.com/boardsfgiantsfans.f9.t19145

Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!

by merkin on Jul 29, 2009 12:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

When I saw Bumgarner in SJ, I loved his fastball. His slider was a work in progress and I didn’t see any true off-speed stuff.

Heh it seems now that it’s okay to criticize him, we’re all jumping on the bandwagon.

Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I was less than impressed overall….offspeed was a sluvey looking thing and a slowball…..and I figured it was just a bad night for the fastball…. worth monitoring, but hey…he wasn’t close to ready anyway….

Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!

by merkin on Jul 29, 2009 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not throwing him to the dogs because he’s young and has room to grow. If it is an injury, let’s have it happen now. I’m not super worried about his future, but I am concerned about his health and how he’s doing for now.

Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But lowered velocity in years following big increases of innings isn’t really that unusual — at any level. Justin Verlander clearly went through that last year. Looks to me like Cole Hamels is going through that this year (lots of reports on low velocity from him this year). Sometimes it works itself out over time, but I’d still lean to the side of caution and at least skip him a few times and lower the work load.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shoulda drafted Heyward.

by briandean on Jul 29, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

GINATS BRAS!!!!!!!!!!!

GROUGTHINK ALERT

by groug on Jul 29, 2009 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This never would have happened if we had Jason Heyward!

Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully he’s not hurt, but if he is it might not be the worst thing in the world. It worked wonders for Kyle Drabek…just sayin!

by Hobbes2d on Jul 29, 2009 2:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Panic seems inappropriate. How about despair? Would despair work?

by Evan on Jul 29, 2009 7:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

how about just caution?

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No. Despair. Complete and utter despair.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Appreciate the fact that when something happens in Giants’ Land you can go to this site to find out the 411. When I saw the Box score from the Connecticut game I was very concerned. Hopefully, it is just an anomaly or tired arm – he is only 19 after all. Hope Snyder is okay. Sure there is cause for concern, but bumps in the road are about gaining experience and you can bet he will have some more along the way and certainly when he reaches the Bigs.

by APGiantsFan on Jul 29, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

KG in MLU this morning

Panic on the streets of San Fran

Madison Bumgarner, LHP, Giants (Double-A Connecticut)
Tuesday’s stats: 1.2 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 0 BB, 0 K

One of the top pitching prospects in the game, Bumgarner only retired half of the batters he faced on Tuesday, got ejected in the second inning for delivering one behind a batter’s head, came close to making physical contact with not one, but two umps, and here’s the thing: that is not the bad news. The scary part is that one scout in attendance said he sat only in the upper 80s with his fastball, and that his command was erratic. It could just be the grind of a full season catching up to him, but at the same time, he hasn’t even thrown 100 innings yet this year, yet there are some whispers of him getting shut down soon.

by KCE on Jul 29, 2009 9:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The interwebs at work

I seriously wonder where that last line came from. Did he talk to Giants people and get a credible whisper. Or did it just come from some jackass bystander like, well, me, responding to scouts discussion of a lack of velocity by saying (as I did), “I’d think about shutting him down.”

Am I a whisperer, Kevin?

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the prospect whisperer

I basically read “rumblings/whisperings of [insert rumor here]” as the age-old Fox News ploy of “experts say.” Who did? I understand “anonymous sources” but there’s not even a mention of that.

Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

“Experts say” was used and abused by the legacy media way before Fox News was even born. Have you forgotten the Reagan years, or are you just too young to have experinced them?

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 29, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL you’re condescending.

Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

have you lived enough to actually know what you’re talking about?

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I fail to see how my age has anything to do with me disliking Fla-Giant’s tone. It is safe to think I missed the Reagan administrations, because I was in kindergarten during his second term. Using a frame of reference that I (and others my age) would understand doesn’t mean I’m some idiot.

Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 29, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was being sarcastic (piling on with the condescending tone)

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're too sensitive

No offense was meant, and I wasn’t intending to seem condescending. I didn’t know how old you were. If you noticed I did leave you that excuse in my OP. In other words, I mentioned the fact that if you weren’t old enough to have experienced the Reagan years as an adult then you had an excuse for not remembering them.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 29, 2009 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m betting pretty heavily that it’s the 2nd one

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bumgarner only retired half of the batters he faced

I love how he uses this phrase to make it sound more ominous than MadBum giving up 5 hits to 10 batters in 1 2/3 innings. If he hadn’t been ejected, who’s to say he doesn’t settle down and end up giving up 5 hits and 3 runs in 5 innings? The reduced velocity is the one thing that is concerning, but let’s wait to hear an explanation from the MadBum or the Giants, or until his next start, to see if it is anything serious.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 29, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I’d disagree with a couple of things there. One, he was getting hit hard on both hits and outs, so I think the description of his outing was accurate. Two, I think the command problems were more disconcerting than the velocity, because command problems usually indicate an inability to repeat mechanics (and tired arm combined with inconsistent mechanics can lead to trouble).

Beyond that, it’s my understanding that the velocity wasn’t a one time thing. As I said above, I’m positive we discussed this with Bumgarner in April after somebody saw him in the Cal League. Sharkrog saw him throwing in the 91-91 range in one of his first starts. And somebody above saw him pitching around 90 consistently (like last night). Seems to me that there’s evidence he’s been pitching consistently at lower velocities this year than he did last year, and it’s pretty hard not to tie that to lowered k rates we’ve been seeing from him this year.

Again, lowered velocity happens in seasons after large innings increases — it’s not necessarily a terrible thing, and barring major injury he could well return to greater velocities next year. It’s just something to monitor and, I hope, err on the side of caution with.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 29, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with most of that

But, using the “half the batters he faced” quote was without a doubt a dramatic affectation in an attempt to make the bad outing sound more ominous. Otherwise, why not just say “5 of the 10 batters he faced”? It’s only 3 more characters, and much more specific – which is what a journalist is supposed to be with his words. Also, we won’t know until his next outing, but he could have just been slow to get warmed up or had a slight mechanical issue that night that could easily have been alleviated as he threw more innings. We’ll never know how it might have turned out, because he was tossed – not removed.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 29, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Streets of San Francisco….a Quinn Martin production. Starring Karl Malden, also starring Michael Douglas.

by SFGuy on Jul 29, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Roger and GiantsTribe, thanks for the updates and conversation. I hope Snyder is ok. That is very scary and can effect pitchers for a long time…

Oh, and I hope The Constant Garner is ok too.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 29, 2009 9:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Looking at this from another angle

In taking a look at this a 2nd time, I came up with a different and (I believe) more positive way to view it. By now it seems to be established that MadBum has been throwing his FB mostly in the 91 mph range this year, while sometimes touching 94. Correct me if I’m wrong, but last year the consensus of the scouting reports and word-of-mouth was that he was throwing it consistently 94, and would sometimes rear back and hit 97-98. We also know that, according to the interview he gave at the all-star game, MadBum claims he’s been throwing his FB around 85% of the time this year.

When you put those 2 pieces of info together, there’s an obvious and pleasantly surprising conclusion to be drawn. MadBum’s FB must be even more ++ than we ever thought. He was able to sustain the results (except for K rates) that he had in his amazing season last year, all the while losing 3-4 mph on his pitches – while moving up 2 levels to a very prospect-stacked AA league! Think of it, the hitters he faced this year knew he was going to throw them the FB at least 8 out of 10 times, and that it was only going to be coming in around 91, and they still couldn’t hit it (until last night when his velocity dropped to 88-89 and he had no control). The only other starting pitcher I know that could match that now would be Roy Halladay, because he gets so much late, and varied, movement on his FB. I get chills imagining how much more dominant he will be when he returns to throwing regularly in the mid-90s. Of course, if he doesn’t want to be a closer in the majors, he probably still needs to develop a dependable slider or change.

As an aside, I’m about 90% sure that he was throwing around 94 in ST this year when he pitched those 3 innings against the Dodgers and Manny – there’s even video of it available. So, I wonder what happened to him between ST and SJ? I can’t believe he got a tired arm so early in the season. I know that pitchers working on adding off-speed pitches to their repertoire often see a loss of veloctiy on their FB, but that’s usually when they’re past their mid-20s. Maybe MadBum tweaked his arm when he got to SJ and has been trying to pitch through it ever since.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 29, 2009 7:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I actually wondered if he threw his arm out a little in ST trying to hump up for Manny. That’s sort of the panic button worrier in me though, because that’s what started Foppert’s horrible ’03. Then there was the lowered velocity all year. Then the TJ. Ugh!

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 30, 2009 5:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs