Ralph Macchio and the Trade Deadline
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 26, 2009 10:37 PM PDT
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PrintThis past weekend, the San Francisco Giants faced their closest competitor for a playoff spot and looked awful. Well, that's not entirely fair. They won the first game, and the bullpen did a heck of a job keeping the third game close after the stopgap starter left in the third inning. But the offense looked like they have all season. Which isn't good. It was, uh, bad. There really isn't another way to describe it. Wait, let me try one...
Do you remember the Big Red Machine? Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, George Foster, Johnny Bench, and the like? The Giants were like that, but only after a few hits of the experimental government drug from Jacob's Ladder. A hallucinating Pete Rose disemboweling Johnny Bench with a serrated Louisville Slugger? Why, as a description of Randy Winn's at-bats this weekend, that'd be a good "Password" clue.
So now the team is at a crossroads. They've inhaled fumes since just before the All-Star Break, and they're breaking our hearts right now. And yet they're still -- still! -- within spitting distance of a playoff spot. They need hitting, but don't overlook the fact that they also need a big bat, a middle-of-the-order hitter, and some hitting. So when it comes to a trade deadline strategy, there are two points to consider:
- There is a right answer. Untouchable prospects will either flame out or reach their full potential. The Giants traded Kurt Ainsworth but held on to Tim Lincecum years later. They also traded Francisco Liriano while holding on to Erick Threets, which used to seem like a much bigger deal. Point is, we'll look back in five years and think, "Madison Bumgarner for Victor Martinez? Wow, that trade (would have devastated the franchise)/(sure looks a lot better now that we know that Bumgarner would never start a game in San Francisco)."
And consider the Joe Carter Theorem: a crazy-hot two months will make any trade look like a stroke of genius. Wait, maybe that should be the Brian Johnson Theorem. The Reverse Shea Hillenbrand Theorem? Regardless, there's a player who would come to the Giants, put up a BABIP of .450, and propel the Giants' offense into new orbits. And by "new orbits", I mean "almost average." But, hey, I'd take it.
- You don't know that right answer. I don't know that right answer. We can take educated guesses, sure. But Dan Uggla could come here, hit 20 home runs in the final two months, and all we could do is say something like, "Wow, uh, I really didn't expect that." Or he could come here and put up sub-Burriss numbers with cleat-handed defense as the Giants fall into 145th place in the wild-card standings. This all leads us to our conclusion:
Man, I really hope the Giants do the right thing. I'll have an opinion when it all goes down/all doesn't go down, for sure. If the Giants trade Buster Posey, Tim Alderson, Thomas Neal, and an expiring contract (Raef Lafrentz, maybe), for Roy Halladay, I'll curse until I throw up and/or pass out. But I'll secretly think, "Okay, Roy. Get us a damned ring, then." And if he does? Best trade of all time, even if every single prospect going to Toronto has a Hall-of-Fame career. This ringless crap gotta go.
If the Giants hold steady -- if they believe that this isn't a team that's going to seriously contend, and they hoard every one of their prospects like pieces of wartime coal -- I'll understand, but I'll secretly wonder in five years if blowing up the farm for Freddy Sanchez and Victor Martinez would have led to a parade down Market Street. The odds are that it wouldn't, but if a random backup catcher can hit two legendary September home runs less than 200 games before he's out of the league, maybe there's a magic combination for championship success this year.
Or maybe the Giants will never win a championship in my lifetime, and it doesn't matter if they trade every single prospect for a slip of paper with "007 373 5963" written on it.
Or maybe the magic combination is already here, mixing it up in the minors. Angel Villalona, Neal, and Posey could all develop into superstars at the same time, giving the Giants an offensive core reminiscent of the mid-to-late '90s Indians at the same time an entirely homegrown pitching staff is setting an all-time MLB record for team strikeouts.
Wow us, Giants brass. Wow us with your derring-do, or wow us with your prudence. I'm open minded. I just hope whatever you're thinking is so crazy, it just might work.
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An excellent read. Especially love the “need guy who will come here and put up .450 BABIP”
That’s all tradeline deals are : trying to find lightning in a bottle.
that’s such a good point. We all laughed when the Cardinals traded for Julio Lugo, and he goes 8 for 14 in his first three games with the Cardinals. Sabean’s luck has been a little better this year, (Uribe, Medders, Miller) maybe he’ll get lucky here. Just don’t give up top prospects on the chance you might get lucky though. If you’re going to give up something valuable, you better get something back that’s a bit more of a sure thing.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Or maybe the Giants will never win a championship in my lifetime
Here’s to hoping the reverse Grant jinx works again.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jul 26, 2009 10:50 PM PDT reply actions
It would be like the universe to have the Giants win a world series, then have the world end,
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Say what?
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 27, 2009 2:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Nah.
Not for at least a hundred years.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 27, 2009 4:02 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL ! Rush Roll.
Should have seen that coming :-)
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Yeah , but jeez...
there’s NO content there. My apologies.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 27, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions
or to have the Giants make the world series and have some natural disaster. like an earthquake or something.
I can see it now
2012- Lincecum is on the mound in the top of the ninth about to throw his second perfect game of the series to lock it up for the Giants…
/asteroid strikes Earth, world over
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis.
/Timmy throws fastball at asteroid, knocks it back into deep space
/Earth is saved
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
I have a hard time saying any prospect, especially a pitcher, that isn’t in AAA (meaning close to the majors) is untouchable. How many prospects actually pan out to be the players they were offered for in a trade? Obviously the prospects are sometimes traded for bad players, but if there’s a sure thing on the market, holding onto prospects shouldn’t be the be all, end all.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
if you are one piece away, sure. If you are 3-4 pieces away, then those prospects ARE the pieces you need.
The phillies should go all out, the Cubs should go all out, but the Mariners (a team in a very similar situation as us, in fact) should not.
The Cubs shouldn’t go all out. They’re getting old and have some bad contracts like Soriano. And their farm system stinks to begin with.
The Phillies should definitely go for it. They’re a defending champ with a core group good enough to get back there the next 2-3 years, and they have enough touted prospects to trade a couple of them and still have a few left over that can make an impact on their big club over the next few years.
Both the Astros and the Cubs are in win now or blow up mode. Another team is the Mets, who has key components up in free agency and a dry farm system to fill in.
Mets system isn’t that dry. They have a few decent prospects. Cubs and Astros should probably rebuild now. The Cubs are talented enough to win (unlike Houston) but they’ve underachieved across the board this year and don’t really have many prospects to offer teams to make a big move, so they’re kinda screwed and have to hope for their players to step it up.
Mets system are dry of players that can help them immediately. They have very few major league ready talent. After this year, that team won’t challenge a division title for the next 3 years.
Sure they will
They have great major league talent (Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Santana) but have a bunch of injuries right now. In a couple years they should be worried though.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
This
Idk why they would worry in a couple years, they’ll have money to spend always and if they get a new GM should come out ahead.
Well based just on their farm system, they would need to add in free agency to stay competetive. But in New York that shouldnt be a problem.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
3 years is a long time to improve a farm system. Especially with a team with the Mets monetary resources.
The Mets have a horrible farm system, they don’t have a “few decent prospects.” They have Fernando Martinez and that’s it, and he’s hurt all of the time. One scout said they didn’t have a single major league prospect in their system below AAA. They didn’t get a number one pick this year because they love to sign big name FA’s, and their number one pick from the year before is already being called a bust. Whenever they trade prospects like in the Santana deal they go elsewhere and flame out. Their one hope is that their core of Santana, Wright, Reyes and Beltran have a few years left, but to surround them with the appropriate talent to remain a contender is going to force their payroll into Yankee land.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
By the way, I haven’t heard of the Cubs being in the middle of any hot trade rumors. Aren’t they broke? Didn’t they just sell the team and/or declare bankruptcy? I don’t see them adding payroll, but I think their present team is good enough to hang in the wildcard all season.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
The Cub’s are not going BK, but the Chicago Tribune/Tribune Company is.
“A brief Cubs bankruptcy would be a legal maneuver to clear the team from any future liability in the Tribune bankruptcy, according to two of the people familiar with the matter. Sam Zell, chief executive officer of Chicago-based Tribune, pledged the company’s interest in the Cubs as collateral when he negotiated the deal to take the publisher private in 2007, according to one of those people.”
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Ike Davis is decent yes: 1B/OF prospect who was their first round pick last year, he’s hitting .308/.400/.547 in the Eastern League.
Ruben Tejada a SS prospect has been rushed throughout his career, but has held his own at AA this year at age 19. Having a much better year than he did last year in the FSL.
Jenrry Mejia a P has mowed through the FSL and is doing very well in AA, also at age 19.
Zach Lutz a 3b, is doing pretty well in the FSL coming back from a leg injury.
And Wilmer Flores is doing pretty well for a 17 year old in the SAL.
The Mets have some decent prospects like I said, most of them are just really young.
Hobbes2d is correctamundo
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
But if you have two top prospects, chances are only one of them is going to wind up being as good as the player those two top prospects would inevitably be worth, meaning it doesn’t really matter how close you are to contention. The only exception is if the big league player is in the last one or two years of his prime. Mid-level prospects are replaceable, I think.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
I think you have to value what you are trading for and their perspective age and salary. Like if say Miguel Cabrera was available right now, I absolutely would trade for him. And offer top prospects to do it. He was 25 when the Tigers traded for him, and you could have signed him to an extension (as Detroit did) and control him for the rest of his prime at an affordable rate. Trading for a star player that is young and that you can have for 4-5 years is pretty worth the risk of trading away potential star prospects. Trading those types of prospects for a 2 1/2 month rental or a 1 1/2 year rental to me is not worth it.
I think GMs say “untouchable”, but deep down they know that if another team blew them away with an offer, they’d go for it
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 27, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Giants fans have a hard time thinking that the guys in the minors are going to ever come up and become stars for us. They bring up names like Ainsworth or Foppert (who were our top prospects at one point), but the real reality here, is that the Giants have NEVER had a farm system like the one we have now. Ainsworth, Foppert…. were never considered to be in the top 10 of minor league prospects like Bumgarner. Posey will be there soon. Those two guys are untouchable to me. They’ve never had hitter
I would trade Neal and Alderson for a guy like Victor Martinez. We’d be getting the short end of the stick I think, but it would give us a middle of the order bat to put us in serious contention. What I would really like to see in a trade for Martinez is one of their prospects in return like Matt LaPorta. That way we still have something in return, if Martinez doesn’t return next season. LaPorta is a prospect ready to come up at LF/1st base. Villalona and Alderson, and a mid level prospect might do the trick, Throw in Randy Winn maybe? That gives us someone who is ready to come up relatively soon. I’m not sure about Villalona. He’s still only 19 and will take a few years more to develop.
But some of these Giants Prospects are legit players… no need to compare them to other farm teams that we’ve had in the past, cuz the Giants have never emphasized their farm system in the past as much as they have in the last few years. I’m starting to see more and more guys like Aardsma, who are having a decent impact in the Majors. That should tell you that the drafting of our prospects has been getting better over the last 3-4 years.
Good post, but Foppert was certainly a top-10 prospect. At one point, he was the #1 pitching prospect in the game to some.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 27, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
That said, we don’t really know how Foppert would have turned out if not for the arm injury.
Which is a legitimate argument for being wary about our prospects, but it does seem like hitting prospects are a bit more safe than pitching prospects and we actually have a couple of legit hitting prospects now. Or, at least one.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Really? I thought Ainsworth was rated ahead of him? I knew the Giants had him as their #1 prospect at one time, but I didn’t think he was an MLB top 10 prospect. What pissed everyone off about Foppert, is that we were promised a flame thrower, who threw in the mid 90’s, and when he got brought up and was throwing in the high 80’s. That was a disappointment. I’ve been to a couple games in San Jose, and sat behind the guys with the radar guns… Bumgarner is legit, unless all the radar guns in the minors are calibrated wrong.
The one thing I remember back when Foppert and Ainsworth were coming up (along with Jerome Williams), was that one scout had said that if you take 3 pitchers in the Minor leagues that are pitching well, One will have a decent career, One will be a good pitcher, but will also have an injury plagued career, and the Last one will have a sub-par career. And every now and then you’ll get one to pan out a.k.a Lincecum.
That actually came pretty close, except, Ainsworth had some freak injury, and Foppert had a bad one too, but never recovered. Williams…. well, I think he ballooned up to 800 lbs, or something like that and didn’t fit into his uniform anymore. Really, the Giants were due to have some good luck with their prospects.
Not knowing if these pitchers will end up with injuries kills us. I think it’s probably why the Giants have been bringing Alderson and Bumbarner up so slowly. I think in AA, they pitch every 6th day, instead of every fifth day.
Foppert was definitely BA’s #1 pitching prospect going into 2003. And I think Foppert’s arm was already busted by the time he got called up.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
For sure. When he started that exhibition game at Pac Bell against Seattle, his stuff was verrrrrry underwhelming.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 27, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
If you look at his minor league career, it looks like he went from barely pitching at all to suddenly doing 140-160 IP a year two years in a row (did he pitch in college before 2001? There are no stats.)
In retrospect, that was probably more than a bit much.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
top 10 BA prospects 2003
1. Mark Teixeira, 3b, Rangers
2. Rocco Baldelli, of, Devil Rays
3. Jose Reyes, ss, Mets
4. Joe Mauer, c, Twins
5. Jesse Foppert, rhp, Giants
6. Jose Contreras, rhp, Yankees
7. Brandon Phillips, 2b/ss, Indians
8. Hideki Matsui, of, Yankees
9. Gavin Floyd, rhp, Phillies
10. Francisco Rodriguez, rhp, Angels
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/all-time.html
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 27, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm
Everyone one of those players has had good to great careers except for Foppert (and to a certain extent Baldelli).
Wilber Bucardo: Carlos Silva with a younger brother.
Contreras, too. He was 32 or so at the time.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 27, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldnt really call him a success either, he is pretty average for being such a high prospect,
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
right
he was already at the end of or past his prime when he got to the majors. He’s been alright for a guy his age, but not a top prospect type by any means.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 27, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Baldelli had that weird mitochondria disease too.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
lol nerd
By the way, at what point did The Force turn into the common cold? I always thought it was some type of energy or aura that certain people trained themselves to channel.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 27, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Their “Midicholrian” count determined how “strong in the force they were”.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
LIMIAUAHGA
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Wasn’t that [mitochondrial disease] used in one of Madeleine L’Engles A Wrinkle in Time books? It wasn’t Wrinkle, but it was those characters. Swiftly Tilting Planet maybe? I can’t remember the name of the other one, and I’m too lazy to actually look.
It was A Wind in the Door. Charles Wallace was the one who was sick.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
And there were actually four books in that series – the three mentioned above and Many Waters.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I don’t know if I’ve read Many Waters, is that the dolphin one? I seem to recall she wrote several books with dolphins, but I thought those were different characters.
My L’Engle days were long long ago.
Many Waters was about Sandy and Dennys, the twins in the family – the ones who were normal. It’s been years since they read it, but as I recall they’re somehow, mysteriously transported to Biblical times, right before Noah’s flood.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I read all of them
Many Waters bored me to death when I was like 11. I liked “A wrinkle in time” when I was younger than that though. Bunch of weird books, but solid.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
tesseract
heh. You’re old.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 27, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, wtf?? I would rather have had any one of those other guys.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Yeah, Foppert was pretty much universally seen as the best pitching prospect in the minors at one time. I remember him being called the Giants’ best pitching prospect since Juan Marichal, and ESPN.com predicting he’d win the Cy Young within five years when he was first called up.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Was that Peter Gammons, who also predicted an MVP award for Bobby Crosby?
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jul 27, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it was just whoever does the Power Rankings.
They weren’t alone in that opinion at the time, though.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Back in the day the Giants had an unbelievable farm system that brought up McCovey, Cepeda, the Alou brothers, Marichal and others – but that was long ago. Angel is 18 and will turn 19 in August.
by APGiantsFan on Jul 27, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
I’m guessing that aBulldog is just young and has no idea of the Giants’ history. The Giants had one of the best farm systems in all of baseball in the 1950s and ’60s. The talent they produced for the big league club between th late ’50s to early ’60s was phenomenal. They were one of the few teams that prospected in Latin America, and they owned that market for about a 6 year stretch in there before Clemente went to the Pirates. Their problem was that the NL was stacked back then and they had no divisions, so you finished in 1st place in your division or no WS for you. In the ’60s the Giants finished in 2nd place nearly every year, except in ’62 they tied with the Fodgers, won the playoff and went to the WS.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I think you are overvaluing the Giants prospects a bit. Neal and Alderson are very much fair market value for VMart. Might not even be enough to the Indians.
Then you bring up them “throwing in” LaPorta, who is a top prospect, a prospect that is currently higher ranked than Villalona and closer to the majors. Villalona straight up for LaPorta would be a tough sell to Cleveland.
My point, prospects are generally worth about 1/2 a major leaguer and teams very rarely deal prospect for prospects in season. If you want Vmart, they won’t be throwing in other prospects.
Victor Martinez
I was wondering who’d be the loser in a Alderson & Villalona for Martinez & Asdrubal Cabrera [2B or SS for years] trade….[admitting that I’m a little underwhelmed on Villalona…]
A 3/4 Venezuelan IF of Pablo, Cabrera and Martinez would be interesting…
That would be an interesting trade
Might be a win-win situation. I like Cabrera a lot, especially compared to our current SS.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
I’d do that in a second. Cleveland wouldn’t.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 27, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Ringless crap is ringless.
(Am I doing that right? I do so try to stay current with you youngsters and your “cool” linguistic memes.)
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
What is the What?
…cue Dave Eggars….
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Crappy ringlessness is crappy?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 27, 2009 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions
BTW I fixed the link for you. You want to take out all the stuff from the question mark on if you link to SJ Mercury pages. Otherwise you just get a dead link.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
So basically
Dont mess up Giants Brass
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
its worked so far, right?
guys? right?
go timmy!
by ringleader3 on Jul 27, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
There's maybe two guys who might be worth it.
If the Padres are seriously interested in moving Adrian Gonzalez, then yes, that might be worth one of our top prospects. But no to anyone else. The very definition of an historically bad trade is a prospect for a 30 plus veteran. I’d add Hollday.
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 26, 2009 11:08 PM PDT reply actions
Its too bad Gonzo is with a NL West team or it might be doable.
I just don’t see the Pads doing that unfortunately.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
duh, because giants fans are the best
by sliderinthedirt on Jul 26, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Using Firefox. And I’m writing a report on a trio of lefties anchoring the San Jose rotation while watching Black to the Future on VH1 Soul.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 26, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Put David Alan Grier in the goggles and then we'll talk
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 26, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
“Hated him!!!”
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 27, 2009 2:54 AM PDT up reply actions
two snaps
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 27, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
posey sandoval neal
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Ainsworth, Foppert, Williams. What was that big three with the Mets a few years ago? Pulsipher, Isringhausen and Paul Wilson? Please let’s not assume that Posey and Neal will come here and do what Sandoval is doing. I’m not saying to trade them, (I wouldn’t trade Posey in a million years) but don’t assume.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
LET ME HAVE MY DREAMS
plus hitting prospects are different from pitching prospects
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
rxmeister is a life ruiner
He ruins people’s lives.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 27, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Best game ever!!!
Epic Mike Tyson code drop!
Baggs said on his post game notes blog that he expects a roster move or two to happen before Monday night’s game saying Sabean didn’t hide his displeasure with most of his less established position players.
“It’s not the at-bats vs. what they look like, and that teams have been successful getting him out,” Sabean said of Frandsen, who hit .128 in 39 at-bats. “And we’ve seen the same thing from (Travis) Ishikawa and (Fred) Lewis and Schierholtz and (John) Bowker, who hasn’t been nearly as comfortable as we thought he’d be. None of that has helped the situation.”
AAAUUGH
Maybe if Frandsen and Bowker actually STARTED regularly, you’d get a better idea of what they can do.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
more of the same
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 27, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
It's quotes like this that absolutely terrify me
Watch out San... oh, wait, Sadowski... uhh... [fifth starter], uncle Pucetas is comin' for you.
by Sammy Danger on Jul 27, 2009 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s quotes like that which lead me to believe that as long as Sabean is in charge, we will see a lot more of players like Edgar Renteria, Juan Uribe, Rich Aurilia and other aging veterans.
by SFGuy on Jul 27, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, so, so, SO true!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
same thing I was thinking. What really scared me was when he said that the team missed Renteria and Rowand, and with them back the offense will pick up again. What the hell has he been watching all season?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Rowand in July (60ab’s): .183avg/.213obp/.283slg/.514ops 2bb,18k
Renteria in July(61ab’s): .213avg/.262obp/.230slg/.491ops
GET THOSE GUYS BACK IN THERE!
even worse was that Rowand was 0 for 22 before that double yesterday. You really need that bat in the lineup. However, as I mentioned in another thread, it just may be that Sabean pumps up the veterans because he knows they’re not going to take well to criticism. If he says Rowand has to play better, Rowand would probably tell him to go fuck himself.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
This
Sabean knows he can’t rip Rowand, Renteria, Molina, Winn or Aurilia publicly, but the younger players not only can’t say anything, but might actually try harder after getting torched by their lame-duck GM in the paper.
Still, the idea that guys making $8 million or more per year aren’t as accountable for the Giants’ offensive woes as a bunch of part-time guys who are still playing out their pre-arbitration contracts is beyond ridiculous. Sabean’s lucky Sandoval has been an All-Star-level player this year, or this offense would have been even worse than last year’s.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jul 27, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
If this is true...
…imagine the nightmare that Matt Downs is living now. The last guy who had your position got jerked around like a tuna in a Russian fishing trawler, and never got a solid 3-4 weeks to establish himself, despite a long minor-league track record of success. So you now you’re on a short leash, and here’s the GM bashing you in the paper. I’m amazed the guy isn’t popping Prozac by the hour.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
If the rumors are true
We really don’t want him popping tons of prozac as he’s driving back to Fresno!
Unbelievable
I guess Sabean is concentrating on building a powerhouse AAA team, rather than improve the Giants. Sad.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
MONTHLY SPLITS
useful.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
the bigger point is that Sabean’s comment about getting renteria/rowand back into the lineup is laughable. the stats just hammer home the absurdity of his statement. sure, SSS is playing a role here, but renteria has played like shit and he hurt the team even more by not announcing his elbow injury earlier, preventing us from keeping frandsen up. and, rowand’s 9:1 K:BB ratio is pathetic for anyone, let alone our LEADOFF hitter.
absolutely. The Giants NEED Rowand…to perform. It’s no coincidence that the team started to play well at the same time he did.
right
I agree with you about Rent, but Rowand has been pretty valuable so far, although keeping him at leadoff for as long as he did after he cooled down was silly.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Ugh, this really pisses me off.
Also, Fred’s hitting .333/.455/.500 in the last 14 days and .281/.361/.438 in the last 28, so…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Oh, Brian. Brian, Brian, Brian. Can you imagine being one of the Giants young position players and hearing that?
OPS:
Schierholtz: .747
Lewis .738
Ishikawa .729
Winn: .711
Molina: .694
Renteria: .628
Aurilia: .544
Not that OPS is the be-all and end-all of hitting performance, but among the vets, only Aaron Rowand has a higher OPS (.775) than ANY of the young guys with the exception of Bowker.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
Yeah but the old guys are just in a slump, they’re going to hit their way out of it! The young guys have all gotten a fair chance.
(BTW, I’m pretty sure Sabean’s definition of a fair chance is: “He got a chance to prove himself with sporadic starts and pinch hit appearances.”)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I don’t need to point this out to you of all people, but as much of a disappointment as Fred has been this year offensively, and despite the fact that he slumped for a full month before being benched for weeks…his OPS is STILL more than 100 points higher than Renteria.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
And yet, I don’t think I’ve seen Renteria singled out once yet in any paper as being a problem and some announcers have even talked about what an asset he is to the Giants!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
well to be (slightly) fair
I wouldn’t want to see Lewis at SS.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
He couldn’t be much worse at SS, than in LF. Did you see how he broke in on a line drive the other day, only to let it fly over his head? Reminds me of Marvin Benard out there. His defense has been a HUGE part as to why he hasn’t been getting any playing time.
I learned when I was 9 years old, to freeze or take a step back on a line drive, until you know what it’s going to do.
Defensive value
Fred Lewis:
2006: +1.1
2007: -1.9
2008: +3.5
2009: +1.1
Marvin Benard:
2002: +3.6
2003: +2.9
Those’re the only two seasons Fangraphs has for Benard, but Xanthan has linked to data on his other seasons and aside from one year where he was well into the negative, it was similar.
So, yeah, there’s a comparison to be made.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
and if it's not
Fred Lewis w/ RISP: 666 OPS
Bengie Molina w/ RISP: .660 OPS
oh shit
Fred is the devil
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Bengie Molina could be the devil if he wanted to, but he’s too lazy to draw walks.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Same old Giants Brass
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
As others have said, this scares the crap out of me. If Sabean thinks Lewis and Schierholtz are the problem, when he has a manager who had Molina and Renteria, two of the very worst regulars in all of baseball, batting 4th and 5th yesterday, I shudder to think what trade he might make to “improve” the team.
Schierholtz isn' the problem, but only be default.
I’ve never seen much love for an inconsistent and virtually empty .295 AVG.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
defense.
we likes it.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I agree, fuck players who are fun to watch.
How do you think we ended up with so many toolsy free swinger, hard thrower, and fast runners who aren’t actually very good at baseball? They’re fun to watch, of course.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Lewis and Schierholtz are not particularly good, no argument there, but still they are much better offensive players than Bengie Molina. I mean, .295 is much better than Molina’s on-base percentage, never mind average. Also Schierholtz’s (“virtually empty”) line also includes a slugging percentage higher than Molina’s.
It's a false comparison, though.
Neither plays catcher, and Bengie’s a (marginally) better hitter for a catcher than either of those guys are for a corner outfielder. We could argue about who should bat 4th, but that’s really just shuffling deck chairs.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
brain bending
The rational part of me wants the Giants to stand pat. I never expected the Giants to come even close to contending, It’s been a nice ride, but I’d be prefectly fine with not making any big trades at all. We have a decent crop of prospects now and some roster flexibility during the offseason. We’re in a good position to make a push next year or so. It won’t be so bad!
However, the fanboy in me wants the GIANT BRASZ 2 GET OF THERE HANDZ!!1 and do something about the putrid offense right friggin’ now. Get me Josh Willingham, Nick Johnson and/or Freddy Sanchez! If I have to sit through yet another weak groundout to the opposing second baseman, I will vomit blood from my eyes. Good lord. We are so close to the Wild Card lead! If we can have similar results in the second half to those from the first, we would likely be within sniffing distance of sweet, sweet playoff glory! Once we’re there, anything can happening! I’ve already thought of the excuses I’ll use for missing work! RAARRRGHHHHHiewjkks
Either way, I’m glad I’m not the one who has to make the decision. I’m sure Sabes is feeling some pressure now to do something. I don’t doubt that tires have been kicked and due diligence has been given. I actually have some confidence that he won’t do anything completely stupid. Just don’t screw up, you dolt.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
How Pandamonium can free her whenever it starts
But it’s like trying to tell a stranger ’bout rock and roll UZR
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 27, 2009 3:38 AM PDT up reply actions
that’s why he has to make a move for a player that will help us now AND in the future. No players who are going to be FA’s after the season like Nick Johnson, unless he comes amazingly cheap.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
On Nick Johnson.
What’s he going to do for us anyways? He’s injury prone, isn’t he? He doesn’t have power, which is what the Giants need, right? It doesn’t make sense for any team to give up a good prospect for him. If he can be had for a mid-level prospect, then go for it.
They need OBP as much as they need power.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Which is one of the reasons I’ll be a little shocked if the Giants get Nick Johnson (or Josh Willingham). It’s pretty clear from the players that they’ve acquired over the past few years that the organization does not value plate discipline. In fact, it seems as if they value poor plate discipline.
this really makes me wonder what analytical tools sabes uses to evaluate talent. And, I said analytical, so GAMER and VETERAN don’t count.
Batting average and RIBIZ
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I will vomit blood from my eyes.
Ah, vampire tears.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jul 27, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we all feel this way
Rationally, this was never going to be a year where we’d contend. This was a year where we improved, brought up some of the kids, prepared for the future. And fact is, we’ve done some things we have never done before: specifically developed young position players. Sandoval, obviously, to prove that it’s possible, but also Schierholtz and, fingers crossed, Posey.
What of our free agent signings? Well, signing Renteria made sense, because if you don’t have a shortstop, you’re going to see a lot of ground singles to left center. And we just flat didn’t have a shortstop last year—remember Bocock, remember Ochoa? We could resign a 41 year old who had stopped hitting, or we could sign a 33 year old due to stop hitting.
Randy Johnson? A veteran whose pursuit of 300 might put some butts in the seats, plus a veteran pitcher who could help tutor the young guys, available at a reasonable cost
We’re in the wild card because the teams who were expected to be wild card contenders have underperformed. Second half, we’ll be outplayed. The goal now is to keep the core together, and prepare for next season.
We’ll lose Bengie to FA, and that’s good; he’ll be a Type A FA. We’ll lose Winn, and that’s good, he’ll be a Type B. We now know what we have with Schierholtz, with Lewis, with Bowker. Posey will be our catcher. We’ll still need a SS and a 2B. But we’ll be ready to take another small step forward.
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 27, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
In general, I agree with your assessment. But I just don’t see Posey starting next year as the catcher in SF. And I certainly don’t want it to happen. But even with The Ol’ Bococker (Sabean) in charge, I can’t see him doing that.
Then again, he never ceases to amaze me.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Nobody worth giving away at this point
Holliday would have been the only guy I would have thought about giving a guy like Bumgarner away for, but now that he’s a Cardinal, we would best be served staying pat. Sure, the thing about prospects is that they don’t always pan out, but you don’t want to get a guy who may end up doing nothing for you in the short term while giving up a guy who could have some real upside down the road.
The fact of the matter, as one poster said above, the Giants offensively seem a couple of pieces away. They need some guys to drive in runs, and I just don’t see any of those guys on the current market who can do that significantly better than anyone else on our current roster.
Supporting the Giants, Niners, Sharks, Warriors, Golden Bears and Zags since 1987
Sanchez, Johnson, Willingham.
With those 3, we could do it. Or even any 2 of them would make us competitive for the wildcard.
I wouldn’t have traded Madbum for Holliday, unless Holliday had two or more years left on his deal. St. Louis took a chance, but Holliday has already told them he wants to stay there after this season. They already had another Boras client, Kyle Lohse, to forego free agency to stay, so they feel they can do it with Holliday.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Holliday would have been a horrible pickup for the Giants. He has proven that without other big bats in the lineup, he cannot produce the way he did in Colorado, and he also needs to be in a hitters park. He would be mediocre on the Giants team, and then would take off next year… seriously, giving up Bumgarner for ANYONE, is a mistake. (anyone who is available in trades, I mean).
I don’t think 3 months, adjusting to a new league and completely new pitchers, and having to hit in The Mausoleum, exactly tells us much definitively about Matt Holliday’s hitting ability.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
The Giants are not good enough to make the playoffs and changing that would be far too expensive, prospect-wise.
Wow us Giants brass, by recognizing this and putting the team into sell mode. Wow us by fooling some veteran gamership loving GM to trade some decent prospects for Rowand, Winn, Uribe or Molina. Wow us by selling high on Affeldt and Wilson.
"I can't hit the ball until I hit the bottle!"
by Li on Jul 27, 2009 1:31 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
This makes so much sense
…it scares me. That should be in green.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
actually, I disagree. There’s not a single name on that list that would give us a decent prospect. Rowand’s contract is prohibitive, Winn and Molina are having crappy years at an older age, and Uribe IS crap. You might as well take a run at the wild card and keep your seats filled the rest of the season, as long as it doesn’t cost you top prospects. I think the price for Freddie Sanchez is going to come down by Friday, especially for the Giants. They’ll be one of the few teams interested that can take his contract without asking for Pittsburgh to pay part or most of it, and after this week the Pirates won’t have to worry about their angry fans seeing Sanchez play against them.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
I agree that we won’t get much for Rowand or Winn, but that’s not the point. I’d want to trade them to free up lineup spots for Lewis and Bowker because by the end of this season we need to know whether they’re are major leaguers or not so we can plan our OF for next season. I’d be perfectly happy if Sabean managed to get some not completely hopeless prospects for them. If we’re lucky the White Sox would want Scott back, Kenny Williams is just crazy like that.
Molina: maybe some GM thinks he needs a veteran catcher with some pop. The main reason I want him gone is because that’s the only way to prevent Bochy from putting him into the cleanup spot.
Uribe: should have a little bit of value in the same role he plays for us, as a not terrible, inexpensive utility infielder. He’s not great but certainly he isn’t “crap”.
The run at the wild card is illusional IMHO. Compare our current lineup against the Rockies, Brewers or Cubs; do you honestly believe they’re in the same class? We would need upgrades at at least five positions.
"I can't hit the ball until I hit the bottle!"
by Li on Jul 27, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I think this is just the outside of the box thinking that Sabean is incapable of considering, mainly, because it would virtually guarantee that he would be out of a job next year. His philosophy is highly veteran-based. To jettison his vets would be a clear sign that his approach to building a contender is flawed.
That said, I disagree that the run at the wild card is illusional, delusional, whatever. Every team competing for the wild card has warts and all it takes is a hot stretch at the right time to win entry to the playoffs. A trade for a role player or two that could actually help this team might catapult us into another stretch of winning.
I would look strongly into dealing Winn and entertain offers for Molina, Uribe, Aurilia (LOL). Unfortunately, Rowand has to stay. Next year’s FA class of OF’s sucks and there are way too many question marks amongst our OF"s to deal one of the few stalwarts (for better or worse, that’s what Rowand is) of our lineup.
by boolemaster on Jul 27, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Sabean’s old approach has not been able to deliver the WS despite having the best player in the universe at his disposal. If I were him I’d definitely try to convince my new boss that my decisions were reasonable back then but that I can adjust to the new situation, that I’m not a one size fits all type of guy.
Right, replacing Rowand is a problem for the Giants and that’s why I’d like to trade Affeldt for a good, nearly ready CF prospect.
"I can't hit the ball until I hit the bottle!"
Outside-the-Sabean-box thinking
Now that Matt Holliday is protecting Albert Pujols in St. Louis, it seems that Tony LaRussa is now free to exercise his Sabean-leaning dislike of younger players and keep Colby Rasmus on the bench. How about we trade a pitcher or two (Sosa? Tanner? Clark?) for Rasmus? Since we have no star CF’s in the system right now…..
Yeah, Brian would never see that opportunity.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Sabean called Bill Neukom more “corporate” than Peter Magowan on KNBR. He already knows he won’t be back next season, and has no power to make trades this season unless Neukom and Larry Baer sign off.
Plus, with the uncertainty following Sue Burns’ passing, it’s difficult to imagine Sabean has any chance of convincing the ownership group to open their wallets for any reason.
/He gone
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jul 27, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I beg to differ on Molina. As far as catchers go, he could have easily been an All Star again this year. His average is down, but his defense is still good, so his ability to catch is still there. His power numbers are probably higher than where they were a year ago at this point, and the only other national league catcher that has hit with as much power is McCann.
If you’re a contending team that has a need at catcher, then Bengie would be a helluva pickup at the trade deadline. Cubs maybe? I mean, they have Soto, but he’s injured right now, and has been pretty sub-par for the season. Who do the Phillies have at catcher? Detroit?
I think the real value in Molina is that whoever takes him will use him as a number 6-7 hitter, not cleanup like we do.
Molina would make a fine 7 hitter.
by scout6 on Jul 27, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
SLG 2008: .445
SLG 2009: .423
Oh, and his OBP is down 51 points, too. OPS+ is down from 98 to 79.
The Tigers have Gerald Laird, whose OPS+ is almost very similar to Molina’s – 75. Phillies have Carlos Ruiz, who has a 89 OPS+ this year. I don’t know anything about either’s defense, but I don’t think Molina would be much of an upgrade over either.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
On most other teams they probably aren’t having Molina catch almost every single day either. The Giants rely on his bat being in the lineup far too much to the point that he plays too much and so his offense suffers IMO because he is tired. Blame the bighead for that one though in not giving him rest at the right time or often enough.
Karate Kid two
Thing is the Giants don’t just need “a bat” for this year, they need it for next year and beyond. Posey in 2010 is not going to fix the Giants offense anymore than a single bat would fix this years offense. Some more “role players” like Sanchez and Willingham balance the Giants’ lineup, and they need players like that for not only a “wild card push” this year but to fight back against the rushing winds of suck in 2010. We need a sequel.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
Exactly
A lof of people are blinded by giants history here, and see this as a choice between a 1 year rent-a-player or future prospects.
But even if our prospectes develop, they’ll still need help. Trading for good players who have 3-4 more years left in their careers (like sanchez or willingham) would not only be good THIS YEAR, but useful as our prospects come up.
Yeah, I definitely like Freddie Sanchez… period. He’s a dependable veteran with a good glove, and will at least bring a good average to a position that hasn’t been producing much the whole season. If you can get him for a middle reliever, like Valdez, then it would make sense to me. It’s not going to put us over the edge, but it will help, if we decided to make another move for a clean up hitter… cuz either way, making one move won’t really put us over the top… for a chance to contend and go beyond the first round of the playoffs.
79 wins
There is more to be fixed than can be fixed by 7/31. That is not to say that the Giants shouldn’t make a move if it helps the team in the long term. However, tripping over yourself to trade prospects in order to salvage this crappy 2009 version of the Giants would be a mistake.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 27, 2009 8:16 AM PDT reply actions
I agree. What’s frustrating me about the Giants this year is watching the young guys get constantly screwed over. There seems to be no plan for getting them some consistent opportunities. Creeky Sabean-mistake “gamers” like Rentalrhea get carted out every game, but Bowker, Lewis, Frandsen, Ishi, etc., are expected to come out hitting like saviors – - or sit! Oops, you went 0-4, so you’re punished for a week, month, career…Oh, wait, now you’re hitting fourth – get two homers, or you’re out again… What’s the plan?
Juan Marichal's bat > JR's head
I liked the Hold Steady reference
even though they’re big Twins fans.
…
Wait, maybe I didn’t read that right.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
The Giants and No Doubt
My wife and I wanted to see No Doubt’s reunion tour stop at Shoreline. We snoozed and missed the initial ticket sale, so looked on Craig’slist. We found mid-level seats for around $200; twice face value. We decised it wasn’t worth it.
Saturday morning (the day of the concert), we looked on Craiglist again and the prices had come back down to around face value. We called one guy, neogiated him down, and got two tickets for $80 each. We saved over $25 per ticket compared to have buying them when they went on sale and ended up with nice seats. You can take one of three messages from this story:
- Sabean should have traded a top prospect for No Doubt tickets. It was a great show!
- Sabean should look on Craiglist for a bat
- Sabean should try waiting for the market to come to him and hope a team gets desperate at the deadline. If Cleveland wants MadBum, he can offer them Alderson. If they say “no”, he can say, “Fine, if you change your mind, call me before the deadline and hope I haven’t already traded Alderson for Freddy Sanchez.”
If nothing happens, no harm done.
(By the way, Gwen Stefani can still bring it at age 39. She’s rad in every way.)
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
YOU TRICKED ME!
Nyet! Nyet! No More! No! Not tonight! This son of bitch, all night he, “Check. Check. Check.” He trap me!
I love No Doubt, and I like this idea.
It’s a win win for the Giants to wait.
If they wait and get offers, they’ll get a good deal.
If they wait and get no offers, well, we hold our prospects.
However, Sabes should not be afraid to pull the trigger on a good deal when it shows up. That’s the important part.
Nah
Tony Kanal looks like a prospect, but there’s no way Gwen Stefani can lay off the low and away curveball. And then, where do we play a naked drummer?
Pass on No Doubt.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
+1
Exactly! Right now we’re at the peak of a seller’s market. Because there are so many teams still in the playoff chase (or, more correctly, so many teams that think they’re still in it), we have a scenario where too many teams are chasing too few players. This is not a game that the Giants should be playing in. Let’s hope that Sabean sticks to his guns and doesn’t get sucked into overbidding for short-term players and/or marginal upgrades.
Especially when if we can just wait for another couple of weeks then the market should start to morph into a buyer’s market. Come the middle of August, when a lot more teams wake up and figure out they have no chance to make the playoffs, I predict there will be a lot of salary dumps and roster streamlining starting. Normally it’s hard to get a player through the waiver wire in August, but with salary dumps it should be much easier. Not many teams are going to want to put in a claim for some veteran with an unwieldy salary or impending FA. I think the Giants could come out with something nice in that scenario, because we are one of the few teams that can take on salary. The other nice thing about salary dumps is that the dumping team rarely asks for much in return, and often send $$ along with the player to sweeten the deal.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I think Jon Heyman is onto something..
#giants scouted willingham and johnson this weekend. sf better get some bats. #nats
I’d go Johnson Sandoval Willingham.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Renteria/Molina/Aurilia. Sandoval moved to 2-spot to move runners over.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 27, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Sausage - Cake - Ham
This is like eating dessert in the middle of a meal!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 27, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Trade for Todd Coffey
Need something to wash this delicious meal down.
LinceCain and pray for rain .... or for someone to take Zito off our hands.
Arguing both sides (cliff notes version)
I was going to make a fanpost about this, but it would be very redundant now (and, of course, not as good as Grant’s article). So I’ll do the cliff notes version here.
There are good arguments to be made on both sides of the fence this trading deadline.
For being aggressive: -The Giants pitching=fantastic -short series advantage -even after 3-7 road trip with worst hitting in the history of mankind the Giants are 2 games back in the wild card -opportunities for playoffs -10 games over .500 eighty-nine games into season -Great farm systems don’t guarantee jack: Cleveland Indians, Arizona DBacks
For Standing pat: -The Giants offense is the worst in the history of mankind -More than one player to fix problems -Better odds for long term success than world series this year -Renteria, Uribe, Winn, Molina aren’t gonna be out of the lineup at any point this year -Seriously, this is the worst hitting team ever (Okay, maybe there was a worse one during the dark ages, but never in the industrial age).
So what’s the solution? Looking for players who will be around longer than just this year and being judicious with who is traded away.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
stuck in the middle with poo
stealers wheel
now where’s my goddamn 50 , 000 Frankenfrancs?
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 27, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Considering how Giants have been making us feel like we’ve been shot in the stomach it would be nice to have Mr. White (Harvey Keitel) yelling at us: “You’re gonna be ok, you’re gonna be ok!”
by Johnny Drama on Jul 27, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
He has a Track Record of Kicking Tires.
by FireBrianSabean on Jul 27, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, i really don’t understand the argument for either extreme at the moment & we’re in the slightly fotunate position where we don’t HAVE to do anything one way or the other. We should be looking to upgrade but we shouldn’t give up too much (i.e. any of the big 5) unless we’re getting a long term solution. If the right move is available then make the move & improve our chances this year, if it’s not available, hold back as we’re not in the position to go all in.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
The bit in the Baggs story about Eugenio Velez scares me
And after thinking about it some more, when Winn leaves next year, we really don’t have any CF options other than Rowand and Torres, and there are none in th epipeline that is close to MLB ready. (Bond? Ford? ugh..)
How PERFECT is Alex Rios for this club? =/
Random food for thought
Last year, the Giants didn’t trade Durham until the very last series before the trade deadline, which happened to be against the Brewers. Soooo… maybe we’ll trade for Sanchez during this series? Eh? Eh? :D
Probably not…
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
Maybe we’ll trade for him before the game today and the McCoven can bow down and worship at his savior feet!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Fitting, as that would be in the spirit of Goofus and you’ll be sitting in his seats!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Who would we “part ways” with to land Sanchez in your guys’ opinion?
by Johnny Drama on Jul 27, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
StreakToBetterSeats
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 27, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
After this anemic roadtrip they have to do something in order to make the rest of the season palatable. The young guys have not gotten the job done – Downs, Frandsen, Bowker – meh; I don’t buy the not giving them enough at bats to get comfortable and trying too hard to impress – well, grow up kids – you are in the show now and if you don’t Show the brass what you can do then you won’t stay longer than a cup of coffee. Sabes and Bochy stick with the vets cause they know what they have in them, even when they are sputtering, they are known entities.
We need a second baseman that is not a black hole at the plate and could use a left fielder and first baseman with some consistent pop – that is partly what a farm system is for – if we truly have a top 5 farm system we will not be able to advance or protect all the prospects – so trade them to get the lumber needed in the Bigs. Otherwise, cut the price of tickets as it shows a lack of commitment by the organization for this year and concomitantly there should be a reduction in what fans should be expected to pay.
The one thing that just occurred to me after reading Bagg’s blog comments (oh my fucking god I want to kill myself), PSD, and this site, is that Sabean has just deflected all the criticism and pressure from his young players onto himself. People are bitching about Sabean, and not talking about the struggles of the players. Sorta like the manager coming out and taking the argument over for his player.
I am not sure if that is the intention or not, if it is, he is way smarter than we give him credit for.
Have some faith
The Giants’ offense is terrible and the Giants aren’t very good on the road – put both together and I guess 3-7 sounds about right even though we were expecting 2 wins from Timmy we didn’t get (hence it would have been a 5-5 road trip).
Now, they have 13 of 16 at home so it’s time to play excellent ball at home to wake up that 8 guys you called an offense.
1) Pirates are a pretty bad team and even worse on the road.
2) Lincecum doesn’t take losses very well so I expect him to dominate this home stand.
3) Cain will keep winning and surprisingly so will Zito.
4) I heard the DoucheBag express known as the Phillies will be in town for 4 with their beloved manager, a certain Air Hawaii and oh yeah RINGZ.
As far as trades go, Freddy Sanchez and Willingham will be decent pickups if the price is right. We finally have a hitting 2B and some pop in LF or RF, both shouldn’t require top prospects so a little Valdez mixed with Frandsen plus some throw-in’s might get things done.
Mo'ped Money, Mo'ped Problems
The Pirates just owned us a week ago
We wont make any moves. Zito sucks something awful. Im sorry, I cant handle that much optimism.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Zito does not suck something awful. He’s as much a victim of poor offensive backing as Cain has been.
If Zito pitched for a team with a decent offense, his record would be much better.
Zito’s been pretty much average this year. 4.48 FIP, 92 ERA+. He only sucks if you take into account the contract.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I was noticing the other day that Zito, despite his reputation for flakiness and disappointment, is actually one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball. His FIPs going back to 2004 are 4.50, 4.34, 4.89, 4.82, 4.72, and 4.48. He has thrown between 180 and 228 innings every year, and is currently on pace for 196.
In his own humble-yet-massively-overpaid way, the guy’s a machine.
He’s never been on the DL, either.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I heard someone else say something like
Zito’s not the kind of guy who gets a huge contract, sucks, and doesn’t give a shit.
Say what you want about about Zito, he’s not leaving anything on the bench. The guy is doing all he can.
The weird thing about Zito is that he was sort of an amusing case-study among the FIP people as one of the only guys who could seem to out-ERA his peripherals. The only major thing that seems to have changed is that he’s lost the ability to do that.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I wouldn't say owned by the Buccos
Yes, the Giants were owned by the Braves but not the Pirates as they had every chance to win the Pirates’ series and of course, no runs whatsoever.
Zito has been more than decent in 3 of his past 4 starts and Giants can score some runs at home so if you wanna glum around and think they can’t beat a horrible road team at home with 2 of their aces going, then enjoy the series. The Phillies will be a lot more challenging, obviously but at this point I am expecting a sweep of Pittsburgh.
Mo'ped Money, Mo'ped Problems
by Scooter Ellis on Jul 27, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I was being fatalistic for humor
Zito is average, but his contract enhances his mediocrity
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
It makes his mediocrity piquant.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 27, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
this might seem off topic, but to me it is on topic
The Giants minor league organization has a 3.50 ERA this year. And we know the big league team leads the majors (or at least did last time I checked before the road trip from hell).
I can’t find a comparison of these numbers to other orgs, but I think it is a pretty good guess that the Giants organization might lead all other organizations in pitching.
Their minor league hitters sport a 735 ops, I am going to guess that does not lead all organizations, especially with the league worst big league club dragging the org down.
The Org does finally have some real position prospects. I don’t want to trade them. Don’t trade Posey for sure.
But they have always had pitching, they will always have pitching. Don’t trade Bumgarner, but it is time the Giants dealt from their strength.
I’m with you. If it’s easier to get Johnson instead of Garko (2 from the Nats), then I’d be fine with that too.
Garko would make a nice platoon with Ishi and is not a free-agent this summer. I would pay a bigger price prospect wise for him.
Alderson for Sanchez, Villanova for Garko, and Valdez + Lewis for Willingham
We can make a run for it this year, not give up any of our big pieces (I like Dominguez as our future 1B more than AnVil), and keep the core together for a better run next year.
Sure
I was just saying that I’d be more jazzed about Willingham and Sanchez than either Garko or Johnson, so if one was easier to get than the other I wouldn’t mind.
Garko has the advantage of being younger too, which is nice.
And I think you’re dead on about what we have to give up. I don’t know why people seem to think that we have to give up either MadBum or Posey in order to get enough bats to contend. We don’t.
Sorry for nitpicking here but…
VillaloNa
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
But that’s the beauty of it, GiantsBrass. When Sabean signs the deal, he writes “Villanova” and the other team just figures he can’t spell. Won’t they be surprised when they wind up with university instead of a firstbaseman! The jokes on them then.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
I like this. Any one of these moves would probably be a waste of effort & resources. But the combination of the 3 turns the Giants into an instant legitimate threat, at least for the wild card.
Even 2 of the 3 might turn the tide.
villalona could score us Carl Crawford in the offseason, why deal him for a platooning Garko in July?
but still that’s a ridiculus overpay for Ryan freaking Garko.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
I saw Crawford and commented before reading the rest. Garko isnt worth Villalone
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
i think they’d move him if they dropped out of the race after their set with the Yanks this week cause he’ll be a free agent after next year. Carlos Pena is 32 next year, Villalona will mature in time to take Pena’s spot in a couple years. Throw in Brian Bocock, Freddy Lewis, Velez might be a poor poor poor man’s Upton, and there you go. We finally get our leadoff hitter to replace Brett Butler
I can’t tell if this is a joke, and it’s scaring the hell out of me.
by The Double Deuce on Jul 27, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
How is that over-pay? I think we always over-rate our prospects. Garko is cheap (400K), under controll, and has a couple years MLB experience.
AnVil is in A ball struggling to hit breaking balls. Villalona could turn out to be a stud but chances are that will 2-3 years down the road. I think making a couple moves for youngish players like these with upside will give us a chance to win this year and next
garko is a fastball hitter, I think we have one called Ishikawa, or is his name Bowker, I can’t recall, either way they’re both cheap and under control
Garko has a career OPS over .800 and has 30 HR a year potential. We trade for him and he instantly becomes our second best hitter.
And he is a RHH 1B which will compliment Ishi and Bowker completly
I dont object to Garko
But he isnt worth Villalona
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Ryan Garko does not have 30 HR potential any more than Fred Lewis does. He’s 28 and WYSIWYG.Plus he’s certainly a platoon player, and the weak side of a platoon at that. Villalona still has a lot of upside and has always been young for his level.
I’m not saying that he’s not a useful player, but giving up top prospects for useful role players is not generally a good idea.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
Garko = rich-man’s Ishikawa?
I always spell and punctuate impeccably. My keyboard, on the other hand...
by cybermaldonado on Jul 27, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
he’s right handed though. and his glove rep doesn’t match up.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
Villalona is 19
We signed him for $2 Million (at a discount to the Giants I’d say)
Villalona is in High-A while he would normally be in his second year of college.
Villalona is 19.
I think you are underrating Villalona.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
I'm sorry.
He is 18 until August 13.
Then he will be 19.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
But, but, but
He’s not in the majors yet! His development is too slow!
by FireBrianSabean on Jul 27, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem is that Garko isn’t very good at all, in fact he’s been considerably below average. He’s had win totals of 0.8, 1.5, 0.5, 1.3. I wouldn’t mind picking him up on the cheap but he isn’t a very good player & trading Villalona for him would be overpaying so much that it’d be laughable.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I guess I"m over-rating Garko than…. I’ve just watched alot of Indians games and he seems like just the type of hitter we need. He is patient, hits for power, is cheap, and young. To get a player like that it seems like you would have to give up something of value.
I also think with the way the Giants drafted this year (Dominguez and Joseph) that AnVil has just become more expendable and it we would be selling high on him.
trading away a 18 year old after 1/2 of a not very good season is the definition of selling low.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
I’m pretty sure that his season this year hasn’t hurt his trade value too much. Everyone else knows he is 18, he was in the Futures Game (again), and when rankings come out next year I’m sure his stock hasn’t fallen.
I’m not trying to hate on AnVil. I’m just tired of hearing all the trade Frandsen or Velez for type trade scenarios.
Garko is not a “salary dump”, if we want him we are going to have to give up someone good
but if we give up someone good (Villalona), why not get Rios, or Brandon Phillips, or Carl Crawford, or maybe Adrian Gonzalez (Vill + Alderson, obviously), and get something that will be our above average bat at a position. that said, i’m with the green post above that maybe we should be sellers in a sellers market. Molina to the Cubs or Det or the Rays, so long as we get Type A compensation. Randy Winn for Type B compensation, cause he’s probably a better return than Hairston was.
$$$$$$$
all those guys you just are getting paid. Garko is only making $400K and would allow us to spend money in other places this offseason.
.333 .395 .565 is Garkos line against LHP. He would be quite the upgrade over Aurillia don’t you think?
I hope you arent comparing the value of Garko and his contract to the talent of Phillips, Crawford, and Gonzalez, even if they do cost more.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Bring back J.R. Phillips?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
He would have an offensive value of like -3,776 as a first baseman.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
You know, I think we’ve finally cracked Bruce Bochy’s thought process here – sitting around, trying to come up with things that would be worse than Rich Aurilia.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Um...
No. I think you’re overvaluing the three players in question.
by FireBrianSabean on Jul 27, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
NOT GIVING UP BIG PIECES?
Alderson and Villalona are pretty big pieces, and definitely are worth more than Sanchez or Garko. I heard the Giants can get sanchez for Merkin Valdez, and a mid-level prospect.
What your saying is the equivalent for guys saying we should trade Winn for Teixeira… it’s not going to happen.
If the Giants could get Sanchez for Valdez and a mid prospect, a deal would be done already. That is barely anything to give.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
right, The pirates must want something good for Sanchez, else he would be gone like the rest of the team.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
I actually think the Pirates will crack and trade Sanchez at the deadline. Could be to the Giants or someone else, I just have a feeling.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
what exactly is Sanchez' market?
Milwaukee went out and got lopez from Ari
Minnesota is on the verge of landing Cabrera from Oak
Detroit needs a bat, they have Polanco at 2b
NYM wants to add pieces maybe, but they have Castillo
That leaves us. Why pay more than Merkin if we take on their salary dump
Why would the Yankees give up their captain? They’re not in a position to start trading away their players…. they aren’t a team that needs to dump salary.
Like 60% of all comments on this site are sarcastic
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Especially when we have such a great team to talk about.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jul 27, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, you know.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Rob Schneider.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Octowit?
(That’s supposed to be a play on “octoroon,” but nowadays it sounds like an octomom reference. Ridiculous moron pseudo-news drivel replacing ridiculous pseudo-scientific racist classification – is that progress or not? I’m not sure.)
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I think you mean eigth-wit
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
Alderson and Villalona are great prospects, but do you realize if we traded them for Garko and Freddy Sanchez that those two would instantly become the 2nd and 3rd best hitters on our MAJOR LEAGUE team.
I feel like I’m beating a dead horse (cue pic), but we are going to have to give up some good players to get talent back. We would be losing our second best pitching prospect and argueably our third best hitting prospect in order to get a 3 time all-star and a good, young, cheap RHH first baseman.
the three time all star is 31-32. players don’t peak in the mid to late 30s anymore, it’s a young man’s game again. think of what 8 million dollars can buy us in free ageny next year if we’re not stuck with Sanchez’ option. We could get an Orlando Hudson + Jon Garland, so long as Sabes doesn’t overpay for another Renteria
Huh? With all the money coming off the books payroll isn’t going to be a problem. I can understand the prospect love but the Giants are in a position to eat payroll to get good players and Freddie Sanchez is a good player. Hopefully Noonan will be ready in two years or we can sign someone like Hudson then.
renteria – payroll eat
rowand – payroll eat
zito – payroll eat
…burp…, damn i’m full….and sick
why can’t we chase Sabathia….blah blah payroll constraints…..
don’t preach we have bottomless pockets, i know better than that. it’s not so much prospect love, although i do love our prospects, it’s about selling low when we can let these prospects develop and season another year then catch a really big fish down the road
Orlando Hudson is the same age as Freddy Sanchez. Like, within 10 days.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
presidential discount
odog is half the price
if there’s a blue pill and a red pill and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill…
…and if both of the pills are past their expiration date…
I’m just saying, if Sanchez’s age is a concern, then so it Hudson’s. If it’s not then don’t bring it up.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
BTW Hudson’s contract is heavily incentive laden, currently closing in on $6M (based on numbers from Cot’s) and will probably end up close to $8M if he stays healthy.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
i’m advocating NOT trading AnVil for Sanchez. If the money is there, sign a free agent. The pick we’d lose for signing an $8 million free agent might be returned in Molina’s type A status. It makes little sense to trade for a player signed during a boom in contract $s when we could sign one in a recession market. Plus we keep one of our Big 5.
It doesn’t look great out there, and they’re both older than Snachez & Odog, but Polanco is out there as is DeRosa. Iwamura is 31. I doubt any of those would even be a type A. Which of those players reach the contract that Sanchez is due?
If it were only a bat or two that the Giants need I’d say GO FOR IT! But, that is not the case: the Giants are a few bats and a PITCHER away from going deep in the playoffs.
Bottom line- I don’t believe in the Giants core hitters and therefore don’t think just adding on to the core will change this pig into a princess.
Think long term (being good for the next 3- years) . And, that doesn’t mean no trades. It could mean trading the farm for a YOUNG SUPERSTAR BAT the Gianst could have under control long-term.
I always spell and punctuate impeccably. My keyboard, on the other hand...
by cybermaldonado on Jul 27, 2009 12:58 PM PDT reply actions
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/giants-considering-many-bats.html
who is Many Bats, and why havn’t i heard of him before now?
go timmy!
Actually due to all the broken bats flying into the stands Ginats Brass is afraid of getting sued by a fan. In order to say that they did their due diligence they are considering many different types of bats in an attempt to see which ones don’t shatter.
I believe part of the test is to take a bat and repeatedly swing at tires with it, I could be wrong on this part though.
I think that’s a typo and the Giants are actually trying to acquire Manny’s bat (just the bat, Manny stays in La-La Land).
"I can't hit the ball until I hit the bottle!"
by Li on Jul 27, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
They gonna fix that bat thats what they gonna do.
"I can't hit the ball until I hit the bottle!"
by Li on Jul 27, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
One important factor that no one has mentioned, at least not directly, is roster management in preparation for ’10. What I mean is, with a strong minor league system, we are going to lose players to minor league FA and to the rule 5 draft. Thus, I think we need to clear some room on the 40 man AND give thought to potential rule 5 loses – and attempt to trade away some of those players. In other words, trading Lewis, Frandsen, Pucetas, even for lessor value, would be a positive if it gave us more room on the 40 man. Just a thought
Can you imagine Sabean going at it with ralph, Omar Minaya style?
3:30pm: According to ESPN.com’s Amy Nelson, Omar Minaya has accused New York Daily News reporter Adam Rubin of lobbying for a player development job with the Mets. Last week Rubin broke the news that Bernazard challenged Mets minor leaguers to a fight. Rubin and Minaya apparently started shouting at one another this afternoon after Minaya made the allegation against the reporter. Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post says it’s “an epic meltdown by Omar Minaya. Just epic.”
He went into meltdown on Ralph just last year (I think), so yes, I can imagine it.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Yep, that’s why we now get to enjoy the Neukom/Baer/Sabean Show.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jul 27, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, yes, you’re right!
He threw a tizzy fit, whining about how he was forced to trade Benitez because the fans were all meany-poo-poo heads.
He can kinda be a jackass sometimes.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I remember one show where Sabean swore on the air (and it was not censored) when Barbieri kept bringing it up.
I understand that he can be annoying, but this shows that Barbieri has his moments. He just annoys the guests instead of the listeners.
The 1st pitch is the best
instead of the listeners? He annoys me plenty and I used to be a big fan of his 20 years ago.
I always spell and punctuate impeccably. My keyboard, on the other hand...
by cybermaldonado on Jul 27, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
So when will the Mets actually hit their nadir? Just when you think it can’t get worse…
Wait. The Mets can’t hit anything.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 27, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
They have quieter bus rides now.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 27, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Any chance the Pirates will make a packaged deal for Sanchez and Garrett Jones (the guy who was just called up this month and hit 10 HR’s)? Is that guy a legit player? I mean, I haven’t heard of him until the other day… he’s already 28 though, but could play OF and 1st base…. Or is he just a 2009 version of John Bowker?
i’d rather get snell or gorz to replace :(owski as our 5th starter if we get something more than sanchez in a deal with the pirates
True… I hope Randy Johnson comes back healthy. He should be a great #3 guy if we were to make it to the post season.
I’m still perplexed as to why Sadowski is still up in the Majors at this point. Why haven’t they brought up Pucetas yet? He was the best pitcher in his league the last 2 seasons. His numbers in AAA aren’t fantastic, but they are far superior to Sadowski’s.
I WANT SNELL
so much.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
To me Garrett Jones looks like a AAAA guy who has a hot bat at the moment.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 27, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I wish our AAAA guys ever had hot bats
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
I just hope he keeps hitting until I get Berkman or Beltran back off the DL (for my Fantasy Baseball team)… if they ever get off the DL this season. I’m not holding my breath for Beltran.
all those K’s in the minors, he’s got to have some monster hole in his swing somewhere.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
GREAT PIECE
but the Shea Hillenbrand shout out, ouch….another Sabean classic
Hold on to the kids……
FAITH BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeremy Accardo
What happened to him?
by FireBrianSabean on Jul 27, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait, how is Jeremy Accardo similar to Benitez or AlfonZo? You’ve stumped me on this one.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I guess they were all traded from us around the same time. Accardo went on to be good, though, and he wasn’t old or expensive.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
He has been pitching well this year for the Toronto Blue Jays in Major League Baseball after missing some time due to injuries.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Toronto has a major league team?
Yeah, right…good joke there.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
They’re a real powerhouse in the Frigid North Baseball League, right up there with such dynasties as the Nuuk Kalaallisuts and the Svalbard Longyearbeans.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
My third MCC mention of Svalbard, now that I check!
Another mini-obsession of mine.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Which set is larger?
Objects of jcb9’s obsession, or objects of xanthan’s hatred?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Our offense problems have been solved!
Velez is back up! Guzman came along for the ride too.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
I LOL'D
but then I found out it wasn’t a rickroll
Watch out San... oh, wait, Sadowski... uhh... [fifth starter], uncle Pucetas is comin' for you.
by Sammy Danger on Jul 27, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
The deckchairs have been rearranged, Captain…
Shall we tell the band to play on?
Or just lower the life boats?
Dance band on the Titanic
Sing “Nearer, my God, to Thee”
The iceberg’s on the starboard bow
Won’t you dance with me?
Mama stood cryin’ at the dockside
Sayin’ “Please son, don’t take this trip”
I said “Mama, sweet Mama, don’t you worry none”
“Even God couldn’t sink this ship”
They were burnin’ all the flares for candles
In the banquet they were throwin’ in first class
And we were blowin’ waltzes in the barroom
When the universe went CRASH!
“There’s no way that this could happen”
I could hear the old captain curse
He ordered lifeboats away, that’s when I heard the chaplain say
“Women and children and chaplains first”
Jesus Christ can walk on the water
But a music man will drown
They say that Nero fiddled while Rome burned up
Well, I was strummin’ as the ship went down
I’m in the dance band on the Titanic
Sing “Nearer, my God, to Thee”
The iceberg’s on the starboard bow
Won’t you dance with me?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
The Mets continue to suck
Yet will kick the Giants ass when they play later this season.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 27, 2009 5:34 PM PDT reply actions
guzman and velez both in the lineup tonight? yeesh, what happened to putting in our best defensive lineup when timmy pitches?
by sliderinthedirt on Jul 27, 2009 5:57 PM PDT reply actions
this is probably already out there but if not:
Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse is reporting that Giants have acquired Ryan Garko from the Indians.
Turns out it’s just a straight up trade for Garko. It’s fair, but we give up a kid who is only 22 years old, 6’4", and is one of the Giants top 10 prospects. He’s having a great year in San Jose.
It is probably going to take him a couple years to get to the majors and pitch effective. If the Giants can keep Garko, he’ll at best be a great fit against lefties, or a pinch hitter that has legit power. He has more upside, but at least we haven’t given up our top 5 prospects yet.
I like the trade, but it’s still not enough. I want to see Sanchez come over for the same type of prospect, and maybe a middle reliever…. Then maybe a left fielder? But we don’t have to get crazy.
HOnestly, what this does, is it keeps everyone off Sabeans back. He didn’t give up a top guy, but he at least did something, instead of looking like he was sitting on his ass and not being proactive.
As much as I like Winn, I think Schierholtz is a similar player with a little more pop, and a MUCH better arm… Nate has a gun in RF. So, that leaves a need for someone to play LF.
Rios would be cool, they’d be trippin if they think they get a player with Tim Lincecum potential like they were asking before the start of last season. If anything, Rios can be had at somewhat of a discount now that he has had a “down” year. (although, still a decent year, if you take in account his SB and RBI totals are pretty good.)
i really like him in a halladay combo
as long as Bum stays then it will be an amazing trade we could afford if it we can give up some big league money like lewis or sanchez.
but keep in mind i live in a fantasy world
ottomatic seemed sold earlier in the day, he’s cheap, he can platoon for ishi, he’ll be ours for more than just this year.
probably puts us out of nick johnson talk
Barnes was the Giants 8th round pick in 2008, and has a 2.85 ERA in 18 starts with High-A San Jose. Baseball America rated him the Giants’ 9th best prospect coming into the season.
Klesko smells like Bochy’s BigAss Head
i like the ERA, but garko is a big need with a team full of them
and why did J.T. just give props to boch for putting the best fielding team on the field for timmy?
Tribe will call up Andy Marte to take Garko’s place on the roster. Marte is hitting .330-.371-.599 with Triple-A Columbus, and has six homers in his last ten games.
i know bowker looks the same in AAA, but marte might have been a better get
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