Interesting tidbit from Sabean just now
by Hobbes2d on Jul 24, 2009 4:04 PM PDT
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PrintHe just was on with Ralph and Tom and said something to the degree that teams continue to ask for the same 3, 4, 5, guys and that when they keep hearing other teams ask about those guys that it's just re-affirming what their internal feeling about those players is and makes them reluctant to trade them because they could make a real impact for the team in the near future.
I'm guessing Neal is apart of this group, along with MadBum, Alderson, Posey. Nice to get some reassurance that they'd only trade someone like that if they were getting a lot back or a really good player.
He also said 50-50 chance of making a deal, but doesn't forsee anything big coming as of today. Looking more towards a bat, and that with Johnson's injury he's even more reluctant to trade Sanchez than before. And teams see him as being a power reliever too, if they so chose to convert him. Probably the most calm and civil interview he and Ralph have had in quite some time haha.
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It’s encouraging that Sabean seems to understand that we now have a “Big Five.”
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Sabean seems to understand that we now have a "Big Five."
…of course he does. Where do you think he buys all those fantastic golf shirts he’s always wearing?
by KrazyKrabMeat on Jul 24, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
It also sounds like this could be the last start for Sadowski. I’m guessing they’re going to either bring up pucetas or get somebody through trade.
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Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
did anyone know that the word gullible isnt in the dictionary
i checked and it was there.
it was there
back in my day we wanted to be like magic larry now these days all you guys talk about is try to be like mike or becoming the next lebanon james
About Pucetas
Not a show-stopper, but they need to waive someone before Pucetas can be called up since he’s not currently on the 40 man roster.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Wasn't that the point of calling up Sadowski?
That they could waive him and not really care?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Basically. They could waive him and probably get him back through waivers.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Jul 24, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
You're confusing waiving with optioning
To create room on the 25 man roster for Pucetas all you have to do is option somebody on the current MLB roster to the minors. The optioned player (ie. Sadowski) remains on the 40 man roster, unless they have no options left (ie. Fred Lewis), in which case they would be DFA’d and have to clear waivers before going down. Now that he’s on the 25 man roster, Sadowski can be shuffled back-and-forth between the majors and minors an infinite number of times over the next 3 seasons before he runs out of options.
However, Pucetas is not currently on the 40 man roster, so an opening has to be made on the 40 man roster before he can be placed on the 25 man. In general, any player we take off the 40 man roster to make room for Pucetas would have to clear waivers before they can be taken off the roster – meaning any team can claim them. Depending on length of service, many players on the 40 man roster could opt for FA if they are waived or DFA’d and not claimed by anybody.
Barring a trade or injury opening up a 40 man slot, pretty much the only viable candidate to be removed from the 40 man right now would be Brian Bocock.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I don’t think anyone would care if they DFA’d Sadowski. Who’s going to claim him and put him on their 40 man roster?
Bocock could be DFA’d as well as Velez IMHO
by APGiantsFan on Jul 24, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Bad premise
1. Sadowski is in no danger of being DFA’d we have at least another year where we can option him back-and-forth between the majors and minors (think Kevin Frandsen) without exposing him.
2. If he were exposed to waivers, plenty of teams would claim him. He’s a solid 5th starter, long reliever candidate (3 good MLB games started vs. 1 bad) that makes the league minimum salary, and they wouldn’t have to place him on their 40 man roster since he has such little pro and MLB service time. I bet at least half the teams in the league would take him on since he’s such a no-risk gamble.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
you are overvaluing the crap out him
He is not a very good pitcher. Every team in baseball has a Sadowski sitting in their AAA team. If he’s not our 5th starter anymore, then there is no value in keeping him on our 40 man roster. Kevin Pucetas should have been the guy we brought up the first time instead of Sadowski.
but he has 3 good mlb games vs. 1 bad!!!!!11
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
the point was that the Giants will have to expose someone to waivers to place Pucetas on the 40 man roster, and if Sadowski stinks it up tomorrow, rather than returning him to the minors, he could be the man. Calling him a “solid fifth starter” based on two starts is ridiculously premature. Based on his minor league numbers, he’s not even a major league pitcher.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
As mentioned above, Bocock and Velez could go. There is the danger that Bocock could be taken in the minor league Rule 5 draft but who cares, really.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2009 6:20 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
if you take him in the Rule V, you have to keep him all year. Who’s going to keep him on the major league roster for a year the way he hits?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Rule 5!
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Yes Rule 5 not Rule V
There is a minor league portion where the org has to keep the guy at a higher level in the minors. Hence Bocock could be taken and put at AA for example.
As Velez is at AAA, he would have to go in the majors Rule 5, and A) not much danger of that, and B) please take him!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2009 11:01 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
No, you're missing the point
I never implied that Sadowski is going to be a starter on our big league roster from now on. Clearly he’s not good enough at this time to be in our starting rotation when all of our SPs are healthy – but he’s been a good stop-gap for 4 starts whle we’ve run into injuries. So why do you want to give him away to some other team for free, when he could be a very cheap insurance policy for us, while continuing to learn how to pitch back in Fresno? He’s still young enough that he actually might improve with more seasoning in AAA. At the very least he could be used as a throw-in for some future trade package – he certainly is as good as the AAAA pitcher that the Cards just sent the A’s to complete the Halliday trade.
Oh wait, I see, you would rather lose Sadowski to another team than take innings away from Steve Hammond, Ramon Ortiz, and Matt Kinney in Fresno, because they are certainly better options than Sadowski, and teams are just knocking down our doors to acquire them.
Sadowski would be 100% certain to be claimed by some team if we exposed him, because
1. They would only have to pay him league minimum.
2. They don’t have to put him on their 40 man roster.
3. His results in the majors has been good enough to be intriguing.
4. He’s only 26 – he has time to improve before he hits his prime.
This is such a dumb argument to continue on with, because several posters, including myself, have already stated that we can open a spot on the 40 man by exposing Bocock to waivers. No team will claim him, and even if they did who cares. If you’re so in love with Bocock then my 2nd choice would be Billy Sadler – IMO Sadowski is already a better pitcher (even in relief) than Sadler ever will be.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Don’t tell wilriv that – William Sadler will toe the rubber in the City soon!
Also, AFAICT, no one wants simply to dump TBS.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2009 11:04 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
superk1ng wrote:
If he’s not our 5th starter anymore, then there is no value in keeping him on our 40 man roster.
If we take Sadowski off the 40 man that’s the same thing as simply dumping him, because, without a doubt, some other team will claim him.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I agree. No need to remove him from the 40-man.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
how about now?
Like I said, there is no value in wasting a 40 man roster spot on Sadowski. He is not a major league pitcher. If we need a spot starter at any time, we can always bring up Sadley or somebody and get the same results.
He says that every year, right? (The part apart how everybody’s asking for certain prospects and it confirms how good they are.) I can remember him using that reasoning many years ago to explain why he didn’t trade Matt Cain and Merkin Valdez.
said it about Cain and Valdez for sure
I think he has said it about Lincecum as well.
Before that, probably Foppert.
not cool. foppert blew out his arm and has never recovered. what if you had an injury that prevented you from excelling at the thing you love doing best — and people on the internet called you jctloser?
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by Useful_Idiot on Jul 24, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I saw that.
Original member of the Van Buren Boys
by NuschlerFace on Jul 24, 2009 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
well played sir.
…
Here I use the term “sir” loosely.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Really tore off a piece there.
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Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 26, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
People aren't making fun of his injury, they're making fun of his name.
Derogatory nicknames are a fine American tradition.
Protip: Don’t name your son Richard. Or Gaylord.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Take that back, you. Foppert is my favorite failed prospect ever. Maybe I will adopt him in next year’s draft if he’s around. (Is he still with the giants in conn?)
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Why bother adopting him? You can play with Jesse Foppert in adult league baseball. Foppert plays for your San Francisco Grays in the San Francisco National Adult Baseball Association.
Hahaha they're called the Grays, I see what they did there
oh wait, Grays?
That’s not funny at all
You can’t have him
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
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by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jul 25, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
If those are the prospects he’s said that about then he’s discovered a very good system. Everybody on the list turned out great, except for the 2 slowed down or shelved by arm injuries.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
sure, I wasn't saying otherwise
just confirming that he had indeed said it.
In fairness, I believe he likely also said it about Ainsworth and he never said anything of the sort about Pedro Feliz.
Yeah, you're right. That's one of his tropes.
(Or, in deference to you, one of his Isotropes.)
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jul 24, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought the most interesting comment was ...
when Ralph asked some lame question as usual and Sabean started to answer and then Ralph blurted out the name Freddy Sanchez and Sabean said something like “I wish” and went on to continue answering the original question.
I took Sabean’s “I wish” comment to mean the Pirates are probably asking for too much for him.
LinceCain and pray for rain .... or for someone to take Zito off our hands.
I posted this in another thread, I wonder if Sabean’s past success in trades (his history prior to Joe Nathan trade) was fantastic and even after that he has a few trades that were good like Randy Winn etc. I wonder if other GM’s are wary of when Sabean shows interest in a certain player and tries to get them to take back a player who might on the surface look somewhat desirable but may have big warts too and then they ask for the full house instead.
So thus he is either forced to give up too much for a player he really wants to get or he is stuck not being able to make a move because they want too much…
So what you're saying is
he made some crappy trades recently to try to lull people into a false sense of security?
I like it. I like it a lot.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Pirates, of all teams, were wary of Sabean. His best trading record is against them! However, if they want to rid themselves of the 8 million Sanchez is due next season, I don’t really see them having much of a choice other than to move him to the Giants. The Giants’ are really the only contender with a massive hole at second base, and although I’ve heard the Twins are interested, they just signed Mark Grudwhateverthehellhisnameis, and would certainly expect the Pirates to pick up a large share of Sanchez’ freight. I would think the Giants’ would take him as is.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
They also said the fans want home grown talent.
I’d rather have a World Series ring personally. Not to mention most of our home grown “talent” blows to high heaven. Sounds like a sorry excuse for failing to sign viable talent and an utter lack of competency when it comes to making good trades.
COMMENT OF THE YEAR
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by i did my job on Jul 24, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
Fans just want more talent – they don’t care where it comes from. Just look how many people have accepted R. Johnson with open arms this year, even though he was most closely associated with the Dbacks – one of our hated rivals. Another example of this is how many fans were foaming at the mouth at the chance to sign ManRam to a huge FA contract this past offseason.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Yeah well
I never warmed up to that damn Steve Finley
by SnowLeopard on Jul 25, 2009 2:33 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought Kevin Towers made a good comment the other day. He said that in the old days teams would always trade their top prospects for proven major league talent, but they realized this was foolish and expensive. However now, they have gone too far the other way. They pass up on legitimate players that could put you over the top, because they tightly hold onto their prospects like they’re gold, even when they’re not very good. It’s one thing to pass up on being the favorites to hold onto prospects like Posey and Madbum, but if another team is dangling a legit player to you, you really need to think about giving up anyone else.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Exactly
Things always go in cycles, and MLB is so competitive and incestuous that other teams will always end up copying another team that’s successful – to the point that it becomes so commonplace that it’s not very successful anymore. A good analogy would be how investors always flock to the current hot investment style to such a degree that it makes the once-undiscovered stocks and industries too expensive to make a good return off of.
Billy Beane and a few other GMs found an unappreciated niche in the market about 15 years ago, and they exploited it very profitably for years . Other teams finally caught on and so Beane is no longer considered the guru/wonderboy he once seemed. The key to being a good GM (and a good investment manager) is to be a wise contrarian. Find the underappreciated assets before others notice them, then sell out and move on when the herd comes stampeding in to copy you. This is especially true if you don’t have an unlimited budget (like the Yankees) that allows you to shrug off big mistakes.
IMO, I think the next “big thing” is going to be a move away from the juiced-up, HR-or-bust, limited speed and limited D players that have been recently in vogue. I believe that players with speed and cunning, that are line-drive hitting , base-stealing, and excellent D-playing machines, will begin to stage a comeback. I’m imagining something along the lines of the Whitey Herzog-led teams of the 1970s. Now that the vast majority of the players are off the juice, and MLB is actually doing a good job of policing the PEDs, HRs are much harder to come by. Teams are going to have to go back to the basics and begin to manufacture runs in order to keep their offensive production up. Those are the types of players that I believe will be most rewarding for the Giants to focus on as they look to continue to improve in the near and distant future.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
you still need two or three guys on your team that can consistently hit home runs to win a championship. the pitching in the playoffs is too good to rely on two or three hits in a row to score a run.
No one here gets out alive.
two or three hits in a row
What the fuck is this , Fantasy Island?
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by victor frankenstein on Jul 26, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think there’s a real shortage of HR out there, and I don’t think that the “PED era” being “over” has taken power out of the game. There are plenty of sluggers in every era, and it’s just a matter of whether they get a chance.
In the 70s and 80s, there were several factors that contributed to lower HR totals. First, many of the ballparks were larger, multipurpose stadia with artificial turf. Perhaps they weren’t quantifying the relative benefit of offense v. defense then, at least like now with UZR and other metrics, but there was an emphasis on defense. There were Jack Cust-type players in the minors then who never really got a shot, or were relegated to PH/part-time duty, because there was a severe cost to have such a player in the OF in those types of parks.
Imagine Willie McGee in his prime hitting a line drive into the gap in old Busch and a Cust-type player ambling after the ball? McGee would easily get a triple or inside-the-park HR. The more you have speed/defense guys instead of less mobile sluggers, the worse it gets, because there are more guys in the lineup who are perhaps crappy hitters, but who will run all over you (extra bases and steals) if you don’t have good defense. There were only so many places to hide slow sluggers with poor defense, so there were fewer big HR hitters. Now, with grass and smaller parks, it’s a lot easier to put a Cust or Dunn or Manny in the OF, live with the defense, and reap the SLG benefit. In this era, you don’t get the same benefit as you used to with the speed guys, in part because they can’t take advantage of the ball skipping along the turf, causing extra singles through the IF and extra bases from balls to the OF.
Also, and I can’t quantify this either, but there was a real bias against batter strikeouts. It was partially the desire for productive outs, partially pride (Dusty Baker has mentioned this on more than one occasion), and presumably partially because putting the ball in play was a lot more helpful on turf with fast baserunners. Big-time sluggers like Reggie Jackson, the 35+ HR guys, could get away with a lot of K, but for a 20-HR type, it wasn’t considered worth it to swing from the heels and K a lot. That certainly has changed as the K is looked at more as just another kind of out.
Look, everyone wants speedy players, but not at the expense of other skills. The understanding and quantifying of defense, even in this era, has caused certain teams to reconsider roster decisions, but it just isn’t that helpful to put a .300 OBP speedy guy out there, because he still sucks. If it’s a .300 OBP speedy guy with great defense, then maybe, but we aren’t going to see a return to the 70s and 80s-style ball unless there are significant changes in the baseball environment.
I’ll leave you with one of my favorite Earl Weaver quotes: “if you play for one run, that’s all you’re going to get.”
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Good points - especially about the new parks
A few comments on what you wrote:
1. I wasn’t advocating a return to Gene Mauch-style small ball. I’m also not suggesting a return to the slap-hitters of the ‘70s. My middle-of-the order bats would still hit 20-30 HRs a year – they just wouldn’t be slow runners with marginal D and middling OBPs. My idea is to gather hitters that walk, hit a lot of balls in the gaps for doubles and triples, and put a lot of pressure on the opposing D and pitcher by always being aggressive on the basepaths, while waiting for the HRs to come.
2. I also wasn’t placing all the emphasis on speed. In the new iteration of this style high OBPs will be still be important. Speedy guys with only .300 OBPs won’t cut it (unless they are defensive geniuses at SS).
3. I don’t have the specific numbers handy, but HRs are way down over the past 2 years, when compared to the late 90s and the early part of this decade. I think that’s a trend that’s likely to continue. I also think that the acceptance of high K rates will reverse as the prevalence of big HR numbers continue to decline to a more sustainable number. Not only that, but players with high K rates overwhelmingly tend to lack speed and not play good D, which will be another reason to lessen the demand for them.
4. Relying on pitching, defense, speed, high OBP hitting, and hitting line drives into the gaps for doubles and triples, will still allow teams to be successful even when they play in parks that are conducive to HR hitting. My primary example of this would be the Rockies. Coors Field is a park that yields a lot more HRs than average. For years the Rockies had no success relying on big, slow HR hitters with marginal D, and pitchers that had been succesful elsewhere but didn’t fit at Coors Field. Then they went to younger players that had speed (especially in the OF), played good D, and hit for a high OBP with a lot of doubles and triples; and pitchers that didn’t throw a lot of long fly balls. All of a sudden they started competing for the playoffs and even made it to the WS. My other example would be the Twins and the Metrodome. The Metrodome is small and easy to hit HRs in, but the Twins recipe for success (a recipe that has made them constant contenders almost every year for the past 10) is to go for good pitching and fast, smart players that play good D, get on base, run aggressively, and consistently hit the gaps for doubles and triples.
5. I know that you didn’t write about this, but the person above you did. It’s true that pitching is better in the playoffs, but your conclusion about that point doesn’t hold up. You see, HRs are also harder to come by in the playoffs. Thats why teams that can manufacture runs through walks, steals, and forcing the D into bad plays usually have the upper hand against slow, plodding teams that rely solely on the HR to score – pitching being equal. If you can manufacture runs you can prevail even when the opposing pitcher is throwing lights out. Remember how the Angels used that MO to beat us in our last World Series? We pitched better and hit more HRs, but they played better D, were aggressive on the bases, and beat us in the end.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Remember how the Angels used that MO to beat us in our last World Series?
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
by The Double Deuce on Jul 25, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s because it never happened.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
In other words, don't expect much.
His flip comment downplaying a Freddie Sanchez deal, and his remark about a 50-50 chance of something happening but not a big deal, (coupled with the Schulman blurb earlier about taking on no more than $5 million more in payroll) means that Neukom has shackled Sabean.
Sabean will be limited to sending away a couple guys on the roster (to clear space), plus a second-tier minor leaguer for a bat of limited value.
That’s the translation.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
I don’t agree. I think it’s all gamesmanship on Sabean’s part. He’s not going to tip his hand. If I’m the Pirates, I ask for Bumgarner all the way till five minutes are left until the deadline, hoping that Sabean blinks. If he doesn’t, I hand him over for a pile of crap to get out from under next year’s salary.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Podcast is up
Then in the lower right, all the podcasts are listed. See Brian Sabean, click on Listen or Subscribe.
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His comment about them asking for the same guys is pretty ridiculous. Of course they’re going to ask for the same guys. Last year’s number one (Posey) and the number ones from the previous year, Bumgarner and Alderson. Throw in the kids with the huge bonuses (Villalona, RafRod) and it doesn’t take a genius of a GM to figure out who the most desirable Giants’ kids are.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Just because a player goes high doesn’t mean squat. I doubt anyone is asking about Wendell Fairley or Charlie Culberson. Or Kyle Skipworth if you want to talk about another team.
of course it means something. Obviously they have to look at numbers as well, but if you draft a guy number one and he’s doing well, he’s going to appeal to GM’s more than a lower round draft pick.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
I’m pretty sure all that matters is their performance and skills/tools. Not where they were drafted. Especially when you consider how many guys who get selected in the first round because they’re deemed “signable”. And any kid who is much more talented drops because they might be hard to pry away from college.
How many legit number one picks slide completely out of the first round because of signability issues? It might drop them down a place or two when the turn of a small market team comes up, but it’s really not going to slide them that far. All it does is ensure that they are drafted by a big market team.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
More than a few seem to fall out of the first round completely every year. Either they are asking for too much $, want to go to college or are coming off some injury.
Hmm, how about Brandon Crawford? Guy was a consensus first-round pick going into his junior year and then his production fell off the map. We got a guy with perceived first-round talent in the fourth-round.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Every time I hear a Sabean interview I expect him to be like, “I’ve been trying really hard to get so and so, and I’ve been considering calling about this other guy”, but instead I get “At the end of the day I’m doing due diligence and there’s a small chance I’ll kick the tires and stuff”. I’m not blaming him, obviously, but it’s a bit disappointing
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Status: Has a feeling that tonight is going to be good night. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
already there
It’s the good advice that you just didn’t take
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I saw on VH1 that Alanis Morissette used to date the guy who played Joey on Full House
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by Useful_Idiot on Jul 25, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Dave Coulier is who "You oughta Know" is about
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
I am curious if Crawford is viewed as being on the " Should Hold" list as well.
Not that I think Crawford is a necessarily going to be a force of nature or anything but he is the only in hose candidate to replace Renteria before late in the 2011 season.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Renteria only has a contract through 2010. The team has an option for 2011. I would doubt they are going to pick it up. Even if they want to keep him, they know he’s not worth 9 million per season.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
I kind of view ’09 & ’10 Renteria as ’07 Omar in that in both cases there is not a lot in the tank there and the red light warning the gas is low has been burning for quiet awhile.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
So we all agree that it’ll be Bocock in 2011?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Velez!!!
At least it will give us something to laugh at while the Giants are busy not contending.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
something that also bothers me is when a GM says he’s not going to make a trade just to make a trade. Don’t make a bad trade, but a trade can also fire up a team and the player involved. I know its just been two days, but look at Holliday and Lugo with the Cards. They’re playing like they have something to prove.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 25, 2009 3:19 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yea, but the Cards actually want to make it to playoffs.
The Giants lack of movement, IMO, demonstrates a sole desire to maximize $ without regard to whether the Giants ever make another playoff series.
If the Giants had not wasted $22mil on Howry and Renteria, perhaps they wouldn’t be in the fictitious bind. I call it fictitious because we all know the Giants could have taken on the payroll of a Holliday or F. Sanchez if they had wanted to.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
you also can’t group Renteria’s two year deal into one year like they’re paying him 18 million this season. The money he makes next season is not a consideration when they’re deciding the payroll for this season. That money will be a factor this offseason though.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
pilling on. For the GAWDZILLANTH time just who do you sign besides Renterira?
Renteria is like the first car a lot of us had. It smells funny. It burns a lot of oil. The upholstery might have been the same color, once, probably when seen at night. People probably use the word " Bondo" to describe it’s color. At speeds over 55 it shakes worse than junkie going through enforced DTs but when you turn the key it usually starts and beats having to walk long distances.
We knew all these things going in. We also knew there really was not a markedly better car on the market. If you want to bitch about the dollar amount care to guess what other teams had that got the very good deals? A viable alternative already under team control the smelt funny, with plenty of Bondo and shakes like a 5.5 on the Richter scale. Something the Giants didn’t have. I also have yet to see were his contract has stopped the Giants’ from getting any one.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Don't you watch ESPN?
THE YANKEES SPENT 350 MILLION DOLLARS ON PITCHING THIS OFF SEASON!
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
The Hardy Boy?
The Brewers are hovering just above .500, and have seen their rivals improve—some resurgence by the Cubs and a major (rental) acquisition by the Cards. They need pitching badly. J. J. Hardy is having a mediocre year. I wonder if you rosterbators would like to spill some seedings about our taking advantage of the situation by trying to trade for Hardy, and move Renteria to second, where at the start of the season he offered to play (as I recall). His reduced range would be less troublesome at second; and Hardy is one of the best defensive shortstops in the league, reasonably young (27 next month), and with enough pop to hit fifteen to twenty home runs.
Exactly what pitching would you trade?
We don’t have five major league starters now (sorry, Sadowski fans).
GROUGTHINK ALERT
If you look at deadline deals, the overwhelming majority of them consist of a team receiving a major league player to help them immediately at the cost of prospects. That’s why trades are almost always made between buyers and sellers. Trading JJ Hardy for pitching would weaken them as well as make them stronger. They’re going to attempt to trade prospects for the pitching help they need.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Its called prospects. But oh thats right, this offense is awesome, lets stick with what we have.
Besides there is always next year, and the next year, and the next year….
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
This is the second year of a rebuilding process. How about we dont piss it all away for a small chance to make the playoffs and an even smaller chance of winning the World Series?
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Why do we need to piss away the future to make a playoff push?
I don’t think anyone has suggested throwing away any of our prized prospects. To upgrade this offense, it wouldn’t take much (because its so bad). Look at what the Red Soxs gave up to get La Roche. We wouldn’t have to give up a lot to get a guy like Hardy, Sanchez, De Rosa (back when he was available) etc.
The fact of the matter is, the Giants don’t want to make a trade. So they’re coming up with all of these excuses as to why they haven’t and cannot make a trade. Its pure crap if you look at the trades that been made over the past few weeks.
The Giants brass are satisfied with mediocrity. Pure and simple. Until the fans demand more by refusing to spend $40 on a seat, $8 on a beer, etc the management wont change.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
by Tellias on Jul 25, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t agree and I won’t agree all the way to the trading deadline. Teams are still asking for too much and I agree with what Sabean is doing all the way until the deadline passes and he doesn’t do anything. I think his patience is going to permit them to get the help they need at a marginal price.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Again I side with RX here.
There is no 36+ year old super star here. Our 25 man should only get stronger over the next few years so by doing nothing rash or stupid we get stronger. Pluss there really is not a lot out there that fits.
For example take Hardy.I would love to have him but he is only underr team control for 1 more season. And the Brewers are not going to take prospects for him in the middle of a season when they are ina play off hunt themselves.
Take either of the 2 Nat’s named around here ( Johnson or Willingham) their Gm seems to think a 3 for 1 is fair exchange for Johnson and there is no real reason to think he would be more reasonable for Willingham.
So next best temporary help option is the August waiver wire. Darn near every player that has signed a free agent contract gets placed on it. The Giants see a player we like and contract price we can afford and make a claim. Sometimes there is a trade and sometimes they just hand over the contract to be out from under it.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Aging isn’t the only way for teams to lose production, though. I disagree that doing nothing is a good strategy to follow. For one thing, one of the largest if not the largest factor behind our record this year is the extraordinary work we’ve gotten out of our bullpen, and bullpens are the most notoriously inconsistent and unpredictable portion of any roster. Regression on the bullpen’s part in the next couple of years will only serve to highlight even more the offensive weaknesses.
Two years from now we have the risk of losing Matt Cain to FA. Who is going to elevate our offense in the course of those two years? Possibly Buster Posey (although it’s always a mistake to assume rookies are going to come in and produce immediately) and possibly John Bowker. Dream and and a prayer Thomas Neal— that would be a lot to hope for and almost certainly not until the latter stages of that two year window).
And while adding Bumgarner to a Lincecum/Cain led rotation is a very pleasant thought, losing Cain and just having a Lincecum/Bumgarner led rotation doesn’t look like a real move forward to me.
We have some good looking young players, but we also have huge weaknesses in our lineup and a ticking clock on players contracts. I just don’t see that standing still for a few years gets us anywhere special. We need to start accumulating productive players to take advantage of our pitching, and a Josh Willingham type player isn’t a bad place to start. Naturally that depends on the cost, but thus far this trade season hasn’t proven to be a seller’s delight. There’ve been some useful pieces moved for pretty reasonable prices.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
"The fact of the matter is..."
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess you’re not part of the team’s front office and therefore say you, like the rest of us, don’t really know what the factor of the matter is. The Giants could make a trade today and make your conjecture look silly.
I don’t know if anything will happen, but Sabean has a history of not showing cards or signaling his intentions with someone like Ralph before he does something.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Based on history I doubt Sabean will "make me look silly"
And no, I’m obviously not part of the top brass. But like most other Giants fans, I’m capable of implying a message via the Giant’s conduct.
Actions speak louder than words my friend.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
Nit: picked
I think you might be capable of inferring a message via their conduct, but I’m not sure how you could imply one. At the very least that would be one overly complicated message system.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Newsletter?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 26, 2009 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I misplaced my TPS report
Anyway it depresses me that 2005, 2006, and 2007, were pretty much worthless years. It was just the Bonds show with no shot at contention and no rebuilding.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
we did get alderson bumgarner and lincecum in 2006 and 2007….
The thing with baseball drafts that fans have trouble grasping is that most prospects take 4-5 years to reach the major league, especially if they are high school draft picks. They see Derek Rose getting drafted by the Bulls and lights things up his first year and wonders WTF Giants Bumgarner to majors NOW.
That was just the product of our massive sucking
The actual rebuilding at the MLB level didnt start until the second half of last year
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
This came off rude now that I read it, sorry. Did not mean for it to be.
I meant my comment in all due respect. =)
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
I like your thinking but...
Its rational. Something the Giants brass lacks. Besides, for whatever reason the Giants seem to think Sanchez is keeper material. I say throw Sanchez and Lewis in the deal, get Hardy and a prospect back in return.
However, the Giants would still need to get another player. Hardy wont turn that lineup around. He’s got one hell of an arm though and would be an upgrade over Renteria.
We should have kept Vizquel!!
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
2 months & 1 year of Hardy = 3 years of Sanchez & 4 years of Lewis?
That had better be one hell of a prospect coming back with Hardy.
I like were you are trying to go here but the method is a qucik way back to the ‘05-’08 years.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Plus, I doubt the Brewers view Sanchez as the solution to their pitching woes. And I hope I’m falling into the chasm when it comes to Vizquel.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Zigging when everyone else is Zagging.
While cooking last night I thought i heard teh Rangers’ Paddillia has Swine Flu and Omar is one of handful of other players they are worried about maybe haveing it. In that case I wish he had not gone to Tajas either. Omar made no sense on a Botchy run 2009 Giants but I really wish he could avoid that.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
I don’t think they feel he’s keeper material, just that they can’t get anything worthwhile for him. Some fans are vastly overrating his trade value. As much potential as he has, Sanchez is still a career 5 ERA starter and those players generally don’t get back 4.5 WAR players.
by SeeingStars on Jul 26, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Rumored 3 team blockbuster deal (not Giants)
The swap had the principle players M’s P Brandon Morrow, and C Jeff Clement, among others going to the Indians, Cleveland ace Cliff Lee, among others heading to Tampa Bay, and the Mariners snagging Tampa Bay ace Scott Kazmir, and INF Reed Brignac.
http://www.seatownsports.net/2009/07/seattle-mariners-in-trade-talks-for.html
http://www.nextseasonsports.com/2009/07/mariners-scott-kazmir-could-be-seattle.html
http://www.proballnw.com/07-2009/hello-saunders-goodbye-wlad-and-season/
And Sabean is saying to himself now “thats okay, we have Fred Lewis. He can bat 5th and hit 20 hrs.”
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
yawn
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jul 25, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
again, if you think the Brewers are going to trade JJ Hardy to help themselves make a run at the playoffs, you’re thinking wrong.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
So trade Escobar.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Way OT
That made me think the question that pops into my head every eleven months or so…where the hell is Matt Clement?
And now I know…
Matt Clement informed the Blue Jays on Sunday that he plans to retire from baseball after spending the past three years attempting to return from right shoulder complications.
“Sunday” was in April. The last I’d seen of Clement was when he was still with Chicago…see how out of it I am?
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 26, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
It's this easy
I copied this from another board:
I know a lot of people are disappointed with over center fielder. So i was thinking we could use a power bat. and we need a better first baseman. so we could trade Rowand, Molina, Sanchez, and cash, for Sizemore (who they will probably go for because he has had a off year), Martinez (who can also play first). then we bring up Buster Posey, who will be over catcher.
then tis will be over line up
1.Sizemore, cf
2.Renteria, ss
3.Sandoval, 3b
4.Martinez, 1b
5.Winn, lf
6.Buster Posey, c
7.Schierholtz, RF
8.Uribe, 2b
9.Then who ever is pitching (but we will have to bring someone up until Randy is back)
Original member of the Van Buren Boys
Message board bad trades battle!
I am copying this one from another board as well :
Molina and Alex Hinshaw for Cantu
J. Sanchez, Lewis, Winn for F. Sanchez, Duke
Alderson for Rios
Renteria, Pucetas, Noonan for Tejada
promote Posey
I actually kinda like Alderson for Rios.
Original member of the Van Buren Boys
by NuschlerFace on Jul 26, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s too much to give up for Rios, but only by a little bit, and only because of Rios’ huge contract.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
It was just some guys stupid trade copied and pasted
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
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