Do Not Want Files, Vol. I: Matt Holliday
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 23, 2009 4:49 PM PDT
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I never understood the reasoning behind the supposed we-don't-have-to-trade-Matt-Holliday stance that people assumed the A's were taking. If the Giants called, for example, the A's were supposed to say something like, "The price is Madison Bumgarner. If you don't like it, we'll just take the two draft picks at the end of the year."
Couple of things about that one. Holliday's still owed around $6M for the rest of this season, and the two draft picks would cost about $1.5M to $2M in draft bonuses. And Holliday could go to a team with a protected pick in the top 15, he could go to a team that goes goofy and signs a couple of different type-A free agents, or he could go to a team that fits both descriptions. So the A's would be out $6M for the rest of Holliday's season, and they could only have a supplemental first-round and second- or even third-round pick to show for it.
Or, they A's could shed the salary, pick up one or two decent prospects, and apply the savings to Latin America or to buy out firm college commitments from a top high school prospect or two. That's why I never gave up hope that the A's might have been willing to look beyond the Posegarnersonalona quadumvirate. In my bourbon-soaked fantasy, the A's take Scott Barnes, Eric Surkamp, and Fred Lewis, and they apply the salary savings to their player development program. Everyone wins! Well, not so much the A's, but I'd think that scenario beats the hope-for-a-first-rounder gambit.
But rumor has it that the Cardinals might part with Brett Wallace. What that means for the Giants: Thank you, drive through. Entering the season, Wallace was Baseball America's 40th-best prospect, ahead of both Tim Alderson and Angel Villalona.
Don't get me wrong: Holliday on the Giants means that Bengie Molina is no longer a cleanup hitter. Bugles will sound, flowers will grow, and the sun will shine. But six cost-controlled years of Tim Alderson or Angel Villalona is likely to be worth more than two months of Matt Holliday, and that's before considering the other shiny baubles that Alderson or Villalona could bring in a deal -- i.e., players under contract past this year.
All things equal, I want Holliday on the Giants. If the A's are really concerned about the salary, and the other offers aren't there, I'd hope the Giants pick him up on the cheap. It was a pipe dream, but it wasn't too crazy. If other teams are willing to offer real prospects: pass. Save the prospects for trades that help the Giants score runs in 2010 and beyond. Or, you know, keep the prospects. I'm not a zealot either way.
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The more I look at this current team, with an offense so limited that one good bat won’t be enough to fix things, the less I want any part of a trade of our prospects. This team may be a Wild Card winner, but it’s not a World Series winner, and it could be in a year or two.
I'm getting real sick of hearing this line
If a team with excellent pitching makes the playoffs, you simply can’t write them off as not World Series caliber. World Series caliber starts with making the playoffs.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I’m more tired of the line about the World Series contender coming our way in a year or two. I have a lot of trouble seeing how that’s going to happen.
Yeah, I mean we have some good prospects, but we still don’t have another big hitter, Sandoval cannot do it alone people and Buster Posey ain’t the slugger we need, as awesome and great as he is
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jul 23, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait out BOWKERMANIA a bit longer. It’s going to happen.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't
But I do see what you are talking about. If there’s anything we can learn in baseball, it’s that the future is always in motion. So throwing all of your eggs in the future basket is a bad idea.
But the reason why the line about World Series contender is always uttered is that it is also wise to not put all of your eggs in the present basket. We shouldn’t go all in this year, etc. etc.
It’s a balancing act. Nothing is guarenteed for the future. But I sure don’t want to trade away a significant portion of prospects that would go a long way towards a bright one.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Wild Card winner but not World Series winner?
How dare you?! 2002, 2003, 2004,2005…. For 4 years straight a wild card team won the World Series.. (Ouch, I know the first two hurt) Not to mention the Rockies reaching the World Series as a wild card team only two years ago.. Anything can happen once playoffs start.
Anything can happen but it usually doesn't
I’d rather enter the crapshoot with a point of 6 or 8 than I would with one at 4 or 10. Just making the playoffs doesn’t do it for me any more.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
by achiappanza on Jul 23, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
The Cardinals won the WS after failing to win 90 games. The point is, you just have to get hot once the playoffs start. Basically, every playoff team is a 1 in 8 shot.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Every team has an equal shot?
I don’t buy that at all. And neither does Vegas. The fact that you have to reach to find the exceptions proves the point.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
"Reach"?
2007- Rockies 2006- Cardinals 2005- White Sox 2004- Red Sox 2003- Marlins 2002- Cancelled, but I’m pretty sure both teams would have been wild cards if they’d played the game.
That’s not reaching. That’s EVERY YEAR except last year.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Are you guys contending that the Vegas odds at the beginning of the playoffs have no correlation to the final results over time? Because I’m saying it does.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
Do the favorites have a better chance? Sure. Are the odds that good in their favor? No.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Good enough that my POV is that trading a blue chip for a rent-a-player isn’t a good move right now even if keeps the Giants in the hunt down to the wire.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
by achiappanza on Jul 24, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, I was at work all day so I couldn't respond.
This is basically what I’m saying. The sample size in the post-season is so small that the odds really even out. There is no such thing as a sure, prohibitive favorite in the post-season. A team only has to be good enough to win eleven games in order to win the WS. That’s it. Yes, the Cards are an extreme example, but they’re hardly an exception. WC teams cannot be discounted. The Rays made it to the WS last year, too. So yeah, it’s obviously not a 1-8 shot for every team (some teams are better), but no playoff team can be dismissed either.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez
3 guys you do NOT want to face in a 5 or 7-game series. That’s all that matters in the playoffs.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
A good team with patience at the plate should not be worried about facing Sanchez in a high-stakes game.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 24, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
That's fine if they're not worried
if he pitches like he has the last 2 games they should be.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
SSS
I fully expect old Dirty to show up, but maybe that’s just me.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 24, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m pretty certain it’s not just you. There’s lots of Jonathan haters.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Just to clarify
I’m not a hater, I just think his average performance will always be about 6 IP 4 ER
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 24, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
The play-offs are all about SSS. There isn’t enough time for players and teams to regress to the mean.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I change my answer to "YES, PLEASE."
It’s kind of a weird trade deadline. Six months ago, would you have traded John Bowker straight up for Matt Holliday? Would you do that same deal today? Exactly.
I still wouldn’t. Two months of Holliday * (20% increased chance of playoffs) < Five years of John Bowker * (10% making us twitch every time his name is brought up when he’s hitting like prime-years Brian Giles as a member of the Oakland A’s).
/swings at slider in the dirt
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 23, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
both white
grit evens out. But Holliday is a former football player, so….
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
A QUATERBACK!!!!!!, eat shit darin erstad
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jul 23, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
oh and I would
I think Bowker’s numbers are very impressive, but the massive hole in his swing still seems to exists on the sliders away/inside/anywhere. I think 2 draft choices are well worth it. Keep in mind Bowker is 25.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I’d send them Bowker and I’d help pack his bags. In fact they can just take Bowker, keep Holliday and give us the type A draft choices that Holliday would bring.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
The A's already have the ghost of John Bowker's future
and his name is Bobby Crosby.
Slider away, strike three!
One on, one out, and Crosby hits a weak grounder to short…
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 24, 2009 2:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh please. Bobby Crosby? Porcelain Mormon? Weak hitting SS?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Bobby Crosby's a mormon?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
you left out a factor or two.
Two months of Holliday * (20% increased chance of playoffs) + 20% chance of resigning him + 2 (10% chance those draft pick players turn out well > Five years of John Bowker * (10% making us twitch every time his name is brought up when he’s hitting like prime-years Brian Giles as a member of the Oakland A’s
fake math overload
ROWAND I LOVE YOU SON!
old signature:
"apparently the adoptive parent of the 2nd best hitter on the team.
/shrug"
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 23, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you vastly overestimate Holliday's bonus to us making the playoffs
it’s probably more like 8%. Holliday is probably worth 2 wins for the Giants, and we are currently projected to win about 85. 90-91 probably wins the W/C but that depends on what the Rockies and Braves do.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
yeah Grant!
ROWAND I LOVE YOU SON!
old signature:
"apparently the adoptive parent of the 2nd best hitter on the team.
/shrug"
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 24, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
lulz
I got crap for giving the Yes answer when the question was first asked.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 23, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
me too
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 24, 2009 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I really would love Matt Holliday....
…….I think he is about to get hot, could benefit from getting back in the N.L., and would KILL the Rockies for us the rest of the year. Plus, he has playoff experience, he’s right handed, and won’t murder us out in the field. I really wouldn’t mind if we signed him for a 3-4 year in the offseason either.
With that said…. No way should we give up one of our top 4 for him! I would love to see a package built around Neal work. Say Neal, Flew, and Pucetas… but anymore and I’m out.
I’d rather keep Neal. Don’t say I overvalue prospects… I just think this offense is so awful that the addition of Matt Holliday won’t be that much of an improvement when the other 8 guys in the lineup (except maybe Cain, every fifth day) have no idea what they’re doing in the batter’s box.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 23, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Considering what a majority of A's fans consider a "fair" trade for Holliday
/Awaits AsFan4Ever’s response
Everyone wants a little Bocock
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 23, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
LET’S PLAY HOMERUN DERBY!
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Jul 23, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
What is up with people saying “all of the sudden” instead of “all of a sudden” like normal people? I think it’s a southern thing.
uh I think the “a” version is slang / evolved from people abbreviated the sound of “the”, but I could be wrong
Everybody loves money
I think that’s true. It’s kind of like how people got “gauntlet” and “ganlet” confused. People think you run the gauntlet. But you actually run the “gantlet”, “Gauntlet” is a glove.
Sorry my english-study side got in the way there.
Supporting the Giants, Niners, Sharks, Warriors, Golden Bears and Zags since 1987
You are correct sir.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
At least as to gantlet – I would say “all of a sudden” and consider “all of the sudden” to sound very strange.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I live in Chicago and hear “pop” all the time. It is absolutely grating. I don’t think any other words or phrases common to Chicago/Great Lakes/Midwest bother me nearly as much, and my beloved grandmother from Kansas City said “pop.”
I also hear “washroom” instead of “bathroom” or “restroom” – that one is weird too. That one seems more of a Chicago-specific one rather than Midwestern in general.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree on the “pop” thing.
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Jul 24, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions
True story
I was visiting my mom in Michigan once, and we were at Pizza Hut getting dinner. I ordered a “medium soda”… the lady behind the counter gave me a funny look, and asked, “You mean like soda water? We don’t have that.”
“Umm, no, like a Coke…”
“Oh, a POP!”
Ughh.
I’ve also met people, I forget where, that call any kind of soda “coke”. It could be Sprite, or Dr Pepper or whatever, but all carbonated drinks fall under the “coke” heading, apparently. I wish I could remember where it was that I heard that.
by The Double Deuce on Jul 24, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m told the “coke” terminology is prevalent in the South.
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Jul 24, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, now that I think about it, it was probably when I was visiting Texas that I heard it.
“I’ll have a Coke”
“What kind?”
“Umm, Coke.”
by The Double Deuce on Jul 24, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
That got very annoying at school… for the first few months anyway.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
the last time this discussion came up someone found a map of the US that showed the geographic naming tendencies for sodie-pop
I think xanthan found it...
I’ve seen it too.
But pretty much soda > pop/coke/etc.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
If you think about what the term is supposed to mean, then an “a” would be appropriate.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Not only that...
…but Schoop and Alderson hit back-to-back dingers. Now there’s a game you’d like to forget if you’re the opposing pitcher.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Alderson being bunted to death
10 hits in 7 innings – 3 bunted for hit + a crap load of ground balls for hits
well, if that National scout was checking out Alderson today, we’re not getting anything for him.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
He pitched well though. 9 of the 10 hits he gave up were infield hits, bunts or ground balls. He gave up a home run but it was a solo home run and the only XBH the other team had. The other team had a very giant-like rally today.
good. That means Alderson-Beimel is back on! Seriously, I would think it would have to plug up two holes for the Giants’ to trade Alderson to the Nationals. How about Willingham and John Lannan?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Are they interested in trading Lannan? How about Willingham and Cristian Guzman? Come to think of it, how about Willingham, Guzman, and Nick Johnson? The Nationals match up ridiculously well with us as trade partners, don’t they?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
You really want Christian Guzman?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
For the right price, he wouldn’t be too bad. 700+ OPS, with what I assume would probably be good defense at 2nd.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
He’d be a big upgrade over Renteria at short, for that matter.
Wait. Actually he wouldn’t. Owch, .299 wOBA.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Yeah. Fangraphs thinks he will rebound in the second half, but who knows. We shouldn’t be targeting Guzman, but he wouldn’t be awful as a throw-in with Willingham.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I’d much rather have Sanchez but if the price is too high, Guzman would still be a decent option for 2nd base.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Have you seen Renteria?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes
And he’s awful. But Christian Guzman is a guy that has put up OPS+’s of 70, 110, 79, 77, 78, 53!!!, 124, 104 and 83 so far this year. I think his current production is more likely to go down than up. And then there’s the whole thing regarding walks. He has 8 walks this year. That’s a guy I’d like to add to our lineup…
And Renteria is making 9 million a year to be our starting shortstop. I’d bench him in a heartbeat if there were someone who was a clear upgrade and not just a marginal one.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
I share your view: Renteria is a tourniquet.
The only SS that could be available that might be upgrades between the lines I see are Wilson (pit) or Scuturo. But I don’t imagine for a moment they would be cheap on prospects to get.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
I’d sign Holliday next year if we have a top 15 pick.. Otherwise not (unless we get a first rounder for Winn or Bengie)
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
So getting “79 WINZ” could also be called “Operation Holliday”
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I've waiting for someone
to post something like this. These have been my thoughts, but not even remotely as well-defined as this.
I agree.
But its not quite right
OMGOMGOMG i love that song
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
for Boof?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 24, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
for Tim Worrell still?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=retired/071227
(See Tim Worrell’s section)
Mo'ped Money, Mo'ped Problems
by Scooter Ellis on Jul 23, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
So this isn't exactly a "Do Not Want" post...
It’s a “want for a good deal” post…
Couldn’t you say that about, um, anyone that the giants could get?
Also, Willingham.
Grant: Shit, there goes my shtick.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
You write that as if it’s stopped me before.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 23, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
well
you bring “Gravitas” to the schtick.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
It seems to me that it doesn't make sense for the A's to hold out for a fantastic offer
They shouldn’t get one. And a modest offer is better than paying him the rest of the season and only getting two loosely defined draft picks out of the deal.
Maybe I should have made a fanpost based around this, rather than one with a silly trade proposal centered around Randy Winn.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
As much as I respect Holliday’s game, he is one of only a few non-dodgers that I think might just make me ill to have play for the Giants. So many years of watching Holliday whine like a little Prima Donna have soured my respect for him big-time.
There have to be better answers. Tampa wants a closer and is after Qualls. Could we trade Wilson for a good bat and still be okay with Affeldt and Romo?
The King Of Bling
No offense, but your idea of trading Wilson tells me you don’t understand the concept of a deadline deal. A deadline deal is one that helps you without hurting you. You usually pick up an established player for a prospect. Trading your starting closer is what a team that is out of it does, not a team looking to make a run at it.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
I was reading this arguments for him in the post game thread, and my new trade target is Josh Willingham. He is a cleanup spot upgrade over Molina (not saying much), is cheap at least this year, and then begins his arbitration years until 2012 according to rotoworld. I don’t know anything about his defense, but being better than Dunn or Lewis isn’t unrealistic.
Couple this with bringing up Guzman up to mash lefties (.359/.422/.522 in Fresno, plus a 22 game hitting streak) and our offense improves dramatically. Willingham shouldn’t be THAT expensive prospect-wise, certainly not the big guns or the Nats are crazy
Keeping on SWOOPing in the free world! Also, by the reflexive property of the rubber/glue playground comeback, I enjoy wearing hats on my ass.
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jul 23, 2009 5:25 PM PDT reply actions
So Lewis is on par with Adam Dunn, now?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Defensively, I mean.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
No probably not. That was more along the lines of he would be an upgrade over Fred Lewis defensively, and Dunn (being another possible trade option from the Nationals). But to get Dunn now would be dumb because he has been exactly the player we decided not to sign in the offseason.
Keeping on SWOOPing in the free world! Also, by the reflexive property of the rubber/glue playground comeback, I enjoy wearing hats on my ass.
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jul 23, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Dunn would not be an upgrade over Fred Lewis defensively.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
I don’t think Willingham would be an upgrade over Lewis defensively – about -5 career per 150 games in LF, compared to +9.4 for Lewis. Even if you think Lewis isn’t that good, I’d still say he’s better than Willingham (which shouldn’t be a surprise, as Willingham is a C/1B playing the OF.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
He’s been an OF for quite a few years now, though. I’m not sure it’s fair to keep using the fact that he came up as a catcher against him.
by The Double Deuce on Jul 24, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s kind of ignoring the main point of my post for a little aside at the end – the point is that while he’s not an awful outfielder, he’s also not a very good one.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I wasn’t trying to invalidate your point. Sorry if it came off that way.
The problem with citing Lewis as comparison career-wise, though, is he seems to have taken a regression defensively this year, for whatever reason.
by The Double Deuce on Jul 24, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Think about this: Fred Lewis might be one of the best defensive left fielder in the game. Why? Most left fielders are horrible defensively. That’s why they play left field. Let that sink in for a moment.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
We have this argument all the time
that’s true, but Lewis also doesn’t hit anywhere near as well as a Dunn or Ibanez or a Lee.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Dunn’s so bad that he’s basically given all of the runs he earned with the bat right back.
He’s a big ol boy with bad knees.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
True
but Fred has been pretty awful at the plate, so…
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Oh Dunn’s been the better player. But I think we’d like to set our sights higher than better than 2009 Fred Lewis.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
that’s a bit of an exaggeration. There’s a handful of guys who could play an acceptable center playing left these days.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
Yes, ( looks ar Crawford) but the defensive talent seems extreamly weighted to the ends currently. Maybe that is just me though.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
This is my entire point. I’m not saying Fred is a good outfielder or the best left-fielder, only that the average left-fielder is a terrible fielder. That’s it. Offense was never a part of my argument. I only wanted to defuse the implication that Willingham would be a substantial defensive upgrade over Fred.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
What about the fact Billy Beane has made 0 trades with the giants ever. Also Holliday is a Scott Boras client, which just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
What about the fact Billy Beane has made 0 trades with the giants ever.
I can’t imagine why Beane wouldn’t trade with the Giants if that’s where the best offer was coming from.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 23, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
didn't beane call Sabean "the dry humper"
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I’m pretty sure those were Michael Lewis’s words, not a direct quote from Beane
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 24, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Oakland did trade Haren to the D-backs...
Ethier to the Dodgers…
Street to the Rockies…
I’m sure at this rate Gallagher’s going to be a 4 or 5 win player for the Padres.
I think this poster might be on to something..,
looked it up
att: .272 / .335 /.406
carrer: .316 / .385 / .541
so not as well, but better than our current cleanup hitter
go timmy!
Career # at Mays Field: .272/.335/.406 with 3 HR in 180 AB
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
He was OK in the home run derby. WANT
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 23, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Can we just trade for Freddy Sanchez already thanks
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Ding ding ding
DO WANT
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Question
why is Freddy Sanchez so sought after? Just because he’s better than anything we have?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
.303/.341/.452
That could hit cleanup for us at this point.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
pilling on
the only nits to pick on him is a his back some times gets tweaky, he can be streaky and he will be 32 next years. Thats about it.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Never gonna happen
The A’s aren’t going to trade with the Giants, and even if they did the price would be too high. If Holliday’s going to be a Giant, then it wouldn’t be till next year.
But Freddie Sanchez would be nice this season…
by crazedcrustacean on Jul 23, 2009 5:56 PM PDT reply actions
In the U.S., it’s called a “vacation”.
by satyricrash on Jul 23, 2009 6:24 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Holliday...
it would be…
it would be alright.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
If he had sex with Barry Bonds’ ex-wife, he’d be Holliday in the Sun.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 23, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
If he opened up a hotel, it would be Holliday Inn.
You guys are better at this than I am. Meh.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
If he goes to L.A.
He’s a piece of sh!t.
by AllHailMightyBruins on Jul 24, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
hmmm
“You’ll work hard with a gun at your back, for a bowl of rice a day”
that might motivate this squad a bit… and some of the dudes could stand to lose a few pounds.
As long as it’s Bochy’s head skewered on the stake, I think we’re good.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I thought this was a vic post for a minute.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
the first quote is a lyric from
the Dead Kennedy’s song Holiday in Cambodia…
Then next line is
“Slave for soldiers ’till you starve, then your head is skewered on a stake”.
But vic does probably know this song.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
That’s a lot to ask of a stake.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live - too rare to die."
chrysler building?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Q. Chances of [Nate or Bowkermania] > Holliday even for the rest of 2009?
A. Not zero
Also : maybe the quickest way we could jump start our offense in a trade with the A’s might be O-Dawg and his hot bat :
Cabrera
.274 / .313 / .361 on the season
.387 / .410 / .547 in July
Renteria
.254 / .308 / .316 on the season
.204 / .246 / .204 in July
I guess, even if we could get him for cheap, the negative would be on the glove (OC : 10 FRAR / -7.0 UZR, ER : 13 FRAR / -0.3 UZR) and disrupting the Giants’ infield D “chemistry” …
wow I can't believe Orlando Cabrera is outhitting Renteria now
FUCK YOU RENTERIA
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
.279?
FFFFUUU
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I didn’t think it’d be under .300! D:
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I think Cabrera would just have Renteria killed,
unless Edgar hired someone to do in Orlando first…
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 24, 2009 2:27 AM PDT up reply actions
No, no, no
What’s Orlando Cabrera going to bring to this offense? If the front office makes a move for a second baseman it should be Sanchez from Pittsburgh or possibly Cano from the yankees.
Since when are the Yankees trading Cano?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
ya, don’t think the yankees are likely to be sellers :p
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jul 23, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we should trade for Utley.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
and we should trade bad players to the Phillies in order to get him
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Merkin Valdez and Emmanuel Burriss for Utley. They’d be getting TWO players for one! What a steal!
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
I would very much like Holliday. I had been against the idea, but the more I think about it, the more I think it’s worth the risk. Sadly, all evidence points to no for the Giants. But with how close they play things to the vest, the word about them not being that interested may be smoke and mirrors. Here is why I like Holliday:
Obviously provides the Giants with a power bat and middle of the order hitting. Is not a liability defensively. Brings gamerness to the Giants, playoff experience and best of all he seems to be heating up with the bat. As for his impending free-agency, I don’t forsee the Giants having a shot in hell at signing him if we don’t trade for him. The only way the Giants seem to be able to get hitters in FA is if they grossly overpay for mediocre talent. The elite guys don’t seem to want to play here to date. If we traded for Holliday, he would have 2 1/2 months + maybe 1 more month of hitting at the phonebook and might actually consider signing with the Giants when he hits the market after shopping himself around. Worst case scenario the Giants give up Alderson and other prospects and get compensated with 2 draft picks. And with the recent draft history of John Barr, Sabean, and Tidrow, I like our odds of getting some good prospects in the top part of the draft. The other possibility is the economy forces a cold FA climate for Holliday and he accepts arbitration with the Giants and gets about 15 mill for next year. While it will be pricey, the Giants will have a real quality bat playing LF for at least next year, and if their season turns south they will have the opportunity to flip him for prospects. So either way, the Giants would eventually get something back for acquiring Holliday. Frankly, I think the gamble is worth taking given the Giants good pitching this year and their awful need for a hitter.
Go get Holliday and Freddy Sanchez, Sabes.
Hit up Beane with Alderson, Fred Lewis, Kevin Frandsen plus 2 more arms or something and see what he says. Billy seems to love fringey ML positional players, and middle rotation prospects. Frandsen would be a nice piece for them since Hanahan, and Crosby stink, and one of them was DFA’d already. Also, Lewis has to be better than Rajai Davis or Ryan Sweeney. Both are cheap and controllable for a few more years, and at worst could be bench pieces for Oakland. Alderson could give Billy 6 years of rotation work. And frankly I don’t see Gio Gonzalez ever doing anything for them, plus Billy loves to stockpile arms anyway.
If we can get Holliday without trading Posey, Mad Bum, or Neal I say do it.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 23, 2009 6:57 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I Like This
It is long, but a lot of the points do make some sense. I especially like the take about Oakland. Crsoby and Hanahan do stink, Rajai Davis basically got supplanted for Fred Lewis in SF and Gio Gonzalez is garbage of the worst nature.
Do what he says Sabean!
Supporting the Giants, Niners, Sharks, Warriors, Golden Bears and Zags since 1987
Hannahan was traded to Seattle. I’m not sure that affects your point.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
He used paragraphs. Nothing wrong with that post.
I agree to a point, but it’s moot if the Cardinals are willing to trade Brett Wallace, and reports say that they would.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
$10mm
Thats probably worth what the Giants would have to give up in value to get Holliday for the rest of the year. Using the Kalkman tool, Holliday has about $8.8 worth of value left in him this year, and since youre dealing with Billy Beane and from a position of semi-desperation, probably have to round it up to $10.
Conor Gillaspie and Waldis Joaquin probably get Holliday. Id call that a nice pick up for those two guys, and even better if they sign him long term at the end of the year.
i’ve been slow to come around, cause i want the chance for the kids to shine,
but Nick Johnson has an OnBase% of over .400, fourth or fifth highest in the NL
that could really help pace our lineup if people got on base every once in awhile
I think people getting on base isn’t the problem. Some games we’re rallying eight to nine hits a game. The problem is we’re not advancing those base runners or cashing in with RISP.
We need a guy that can come through when the ducks on the pond, not just get on base.
Supporting the Giants, Niners, Sharks, Warriors, Golden Bears and Zags since 1987
Getting on base is very much the problem. The team is DEAD LAST in OBP. You’re looking for a magic formula whereby the batters will get clutch hits whenever someone is on base, and it just doesn’t happen. The Giants average 8 or 9 hits (8.7 or so) per game, but they lack extra base hits. Also, when the team is horrible, horrible, horrible at getting walks (dead last as well), that’s far fewer baserunners for the hits to send home. There’s a big difference between out, single, single, out, out and walk, out, single, single, out. It’s one walk in the inning, but a run is going to score. Walks get you baserunners and most importantly, walks aren’t outs.
The problem is twofold:
1) THE TEAM IS DEAD LAST – 16th OUT OF 16 TEAMS IN OBP
2) THE TEAM IS 14th OUT OF 16 TEAMS IN SLG
They don’t get on base and they don’t hit for power. It’s a recipe for offense fail, and that’s exactly why we are 15th in OPS and 15th in runs scored (ahead of only the lowly Padres in both stats).
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
bingo
This team has been extraordinarily lucky so far, no matter how much some fans want to mock Beyond the Box Score. The god-awful OBP is a significant contributing factor; the the fact that Bengie is making outs 73% of the times he comes to the plate is a problem. Improving the OBP is probably cheaper than improving the SLG, and the marginal improvement to a Nick Johnson (offensively) is ginormous.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
NORTH SIDE! NORTH SIDE!!NORTH SIDE!!!
I don’t care if they get on by walks, bunts, HBP or mooning the heathen pitchers. You have to get players on base to score and any meaning fully amounts or any meaning full frequency. I really don’t get the hostility some of our Giants Fans brethren have towards OBP.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Sour grapes?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Not yet.
But it mystifies me how caviler, and some case oblivious, some Giants fans in other parts are towards ( what use to be called) "table setters". Especially since it was not that long ago Bonds was getting walked like mad if there was no one on base in front of him. I truly can’t see why they don’t at least get part of it.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
No, I get the value of OBP. I was implying Giants fans dismiss high OBP players because they can’t have any of the goodness.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
WALKZ DUNT SCOAR RUNZ!!!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
IIRC, the Giants are amongst the best in the league at clutch hitting. They’ve turned a ridiculously low number of baserunners into a decent number of runs.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
Nah.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2009 6:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Not interested in Holliday for a number of reasons
1) He’s obviously out of contract at the end of the year & i think given our position we’d be silly to give up “big” talent for half a years production.
2) He’s going to cost a lot to obtain him
3) Whilst our other outfielders aren’t good, and he’d be an upgrade, we’ve got ok options & so the upgrade wouldn’t be as large as it could be if we were running out sub-replacement players.
From the A’s perspective, if the Cardinals are offering Wallace i’d take the offer & run, i certainly wouldn’t be willing to give up that much to get him & i doubt any other team will be either.
From our perspective i think it’d be a bad decision to give up the talent needed to acquire him when there’s other available talent that’d come much cheaper. The likes of Sanchez, Nick Johnson or even Rios (if we really want another outfielder) are much better targets & could provide similar returns whithout having to give up as much for the future.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I agree with a few of these posts, mostly because ANY upgrade is an upgrade, and we’re all thirsty for that. This team needs something – be it Holliday, Johnson, Sanchez, Rios – what have you. I’m all for it. I understand it’s hard to see our prospects leave, it’s the cost of doing business. The obvious untouchables are there, but if we’re dangling our AAAA players and someone is listening, I’m game.
It’s all about doing something… anything… to improve the OBP and SLG. We get better in that area, and we win more games. This team in the playoffs, with a little pop, would be amazing. Don’t waste the opportunity, because these years don’t come around too often. It’s not like Lincecum and Cain are signed forever. Everyone says wait for 2010 or 2011, but screw that – injuries happen. I don’t want to wait.
Well, you don't have the fight the feelings any longer
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4353256
The Athletics and Cardinals are close to completing a trade that would send outfielder Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen, league sources told ESPN The Magazine’s Tim Kurkjian.
Even the peripheral players are named already, the deal must be done pending financials.
Good deal for the A’s and the Cardinals gave up way too much in my opinion.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
x2. That’s an amazing haul for a rentaplayer of Holliday’s recent performance, and from what I understand about the Cards payroll even arbitration may be a bit of a stretch for them.
Yeah
if the Cards manage to win the WS, great, but if not, this deal could look potentially awful.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I don’t know anything about the other two players, but I like the Wallace for Holliday swap for the Cards. Finding a place for Wallace on the field was going to be a big problem for a team with no DH and no opening at first. And while he’s a very good hitter, but he would need to be an absolute monster to be a positive at third or in the outfield. He’s a lot like Matt LaPorta last year, and so far it looks like the Brewers dealt LaPorta at the summit of his value.
I can see why the Cards did it. Wallace is not projected to be able to stick at 3rd long term, and they can’t move him to 1B.
While a stick like wallace means you play him anywhere you can, flipping him for 2 picks + holliday is not the worst thing in the world. It’s a trade that should benefit both teams.
Well, part of the deal looking potentially awful is the chance that they don’t get the picks/are stuck with him for a year at a price they can’t afford.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Would Holliday accept arb?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jul 24, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Who knows what the market will look like come November?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 24, 2009 10:37 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, this looks crazy to me. Can you imagine the reaction around here if the Giants traded Posey, Neal, and Justin Miller for two months of Holliday? Cuz that’s just about what the Cards just did.
Posey’s a better prospect than Walllace
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
Maybe. Wallace is closer to the big leagues, but Posey plays a more valuable defensive position, especially if we think Wallace is really a 1B. It wasn’t meant to be an exact comparison anyway, just a rough approximation.
Good to get Brett Wallace and some others out of the NL.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
A’s fan friend is freaking out — Decent haul but I’m not convinced wallace can stick at 3rd long term….
I told him who cares you’re just going to play wallace for 3 years and trade him anyway.
that’s fine for the A’s. They have just as big of a hole at 1st as at 3rd.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
I think Doolittle will be at least average… or at least better than Barton/Giambi
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
If any A’s fans freak out about this, they were overvaluing Holliday. Or did they not notice that the package they gave up for him wasn’t that great?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Hell
That might be a better package than the A’s gave up for Holliday. If they were expecting three top 100 prospects, well, they were bound to be disappointed.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Also it’s not as if losing Holliday will prevent them from making the playoffs.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
That’s a haul. Wow.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, this shocks me.
Good for the A’s.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Cardinals took a big bite out of their minor league system
to rent Holliday for two months, but as others have said, they made themselves stronger in the middle of the order for a playoff push. As for Beane, once again he rips off another team.
As for what this means elsewhere, the Brewers will now panic. And if the Cards were thinking about Roy Halladay, that just ended. We’ll see how quickly the Phils will now pull the trigger on a Halladay deal.
I suspect that by the time this is over, the Giants end up with Freddy Sanchez and Nick Johnson, with the only question being how deep into the system Sabean went to do it.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
I would be very content with this scenario
Johnson shouldn’t cost much more than Merkin, and assuming Sanchez could be had for someone outside of the Big 5, they have upgraded one, (and arguably two) positions.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 24, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope you’re right and I doubt Sabean will have to dip into the top 6-8 or so to get it done.
A lineup of
1. Rowand CF
2. Sanchez 2B
3. Johnson 1B
4. Sandoval 3B
5. Molina C (:\)
6. Schierholtz RF
7. Winn LF
8. Renteria SS
or something along those lines isn’t terrible (wish we had a better option to bat fifth. Well, we do, we could bat Winn leadoff and Rowand 5th but like we’d really let our great cleanup hitter hit 6th or lower!!)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
That lineup lacks BOWKERMANIA.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
At least Johnson is a good defender.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
UVHaight
Rather see:
1. Winn
2. Sanchez
3. Schierholtz
4. Sandoval
5. Johnson
6. Rowand
7. Molina
8. Renteria
I like Johnson higher in the order because of his .400+ OBP, while Schierholtz with the low OBP would fit better lower in the order.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Yeah, you’ve got to have Johnson higher up in the order to take advantage of his OBP. The order you alluded to seems the best (although not likely with Bochy as manager)
1. Winn RF
2. Sanchez 2B
3. Johnson 1B
4. Sandoval 3B
5. Rowand CF
6. Bowker/Schierholtz LF (RF)
7. Molina C
8. Renteria SS
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I would think with his ability to hit balls outside the strike zone and refusal to walk, more people would have Bengie in the 8 hole.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
He’d be too slow for the pitcher to bunt over when he gets on base with less than 2 outs.
by The Double Deuce on Jul 24, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
hey that's not a LOLineup
it has guys in it that are not giants…
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
That lineup also lacks BOWKERMANIA
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
My thought is that Nate sees better pitches in front of Panda, and Panda sees better pitches in front of Johnson
Lineup protection, except for in extreme cases, is pretty much nil.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I would agree, except evidence is building that Bengie is really crappy at handling the pitching staff.
You can be fail at those things. For example, players can crap the bed in clutch situations because of the pressure. Those guys generally get weeded out early though.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
so you are saying
that we should have a LOWER ERA/WHIP?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
It seems incredible, but it appears that the pitchers do better with not-Bengie behind the plate. I don’t have or know of any stats to back that up. Are there any? It seems like somebody ought to keep track of that sort of thing, since you always hear stuff like, “He does a great job with the pitching staff.”
I guess any stats would SSS anyway since there are so few games Bengie doesn’t catch.
You would have to adjust for the quality of the defense behind the pitcher too.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Okay, so now what would it take to get Holliday from the Cardinals?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
lol'd
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jul 24, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Cardinals
Must be thinking that Holliday will accept arbitration next year, and if not, the two picks they get for him is worth a 2 month rental and the prospects that they gave up, considering Wallace was going to be a defensive liability anyway (and they can’t hide him at first base). With Ludwick starting to hit again after his hamstring injury, Pujols, Holliday, Ludwick looks like a pretty formidable part of the lineup that a pitcher is going to face 4/5 times a game.
Glad the Giants didn’t make this deal. We need 2 to 3 guys that can hit, not one. Well, we really need 7 guys that can hit, but whatever.
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