Is Sabes gunshy to make a big trade?
by Hobbes2d on Jul 23, 2009 4:25 PM PDT
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PrintNow we can debate whether or not the Giants should make any moves at this point, but I'm wondering if Sabes is afraid to make a trade regardless of the situation of the team. Because when you think about it, since the trade of Joe Nathan, the Giants haven't really made a lot of trades. The ones they have made were either really poor choices like Shea Hillenbrand, or dumping crappy players to other teams like Matt Morris for Rajai Davis or Mark Sweeney for Travis Denker.
I'm of the school of thought that the Giants aren't really in a great position to go after what they really need because the players that would be attractive to other teams either are too important a piece to the big club (Cain, Sanchez, Lincecum, Wilson) or they are top 10 prospects in all of baseball and really shouldn't be traded away because the team is still in a rebuilding stage. So because of that, I can't really blame him for not pulling the trigger on moves that probably won't be a big upgrade or help the Giants, but also if the Giants in the next few years reach a position where they are legit contenders, they're going to need to have a GM capable of pulling the trigger to improve the team.
So why do you feel they haven't made any moves?
Does Sabes and Co. see this team as overachieving and they don't want to mortgage what could be a bright future for a shot at the wildcard going head to head vs better teams?
Do the Giants just not have the horses to pry good players away from these other teams?
Is Sabes afraid to make a move with his job on the line despite already having turned in a season good enough to get a contract extension (in the organization's eyes, not so much the fans).So perhaps he's playing it safe?
Or do you think Sabes and Co are happy with the current players/minor leaguers and are content to try to contend with them and look to improve the offense/back end rotation in the winter?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Nice !! It’s an epidemic in the Giants system.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
someone warn Kevin Frandsen!
Congratulations and Thank you Jonathan Sanchez.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jul 24, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Franny is on a suicide mission:
a) shoots self in foot (mlb offense/defense sucks, though expressed in sips of coffee in SF)
b) shoots off mouth (critical quotes that make the fishwrap… not wise for a AAAA guy)
by KrazyKrabMeat on Jul 24, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I lol'd irl
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
He was found on the bus with a “GAINTZ BRASZ!!11” note on his forehead.
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Jul 23, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Awesome
Original member of the Van Buren Boys
by NuschlerFace on Jul 23, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
but I’m wondering if Sabes is afraid to make a trade regardless of the situation of the team.
Have we been watching the same team?
man, your fanpost is rife with inaccuracies and suppositions.
Sabes’s job: not on the line. After the way the Giants have performed so far this season, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him extended
Denker: not traded, waived and claimed.
They haven’t made any moves because the trade deadline is not yet upon us. Check back in a week.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
hey buddy
I know, I miss you too! But it’s diary fanposts like this one that…. well, you know.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
Also, Winn was a good trade. (and yes, I need my daily dose of vitamin Delorean, as well)
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
What’s with all the Bromance?
/ducks
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 23, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
deloreans one of the better posters around here
He’s one of the inner circle. The only problem I have with it is that nobody feels this way about me. :p
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Hey, keep sucking up like that and you will be in the inner circle soon…
And I guess what they say is true, if you (me) didn’t know there was an inner circle, you (me) are probably not part of it.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 23, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
THERES AN INNER CIRCLE!!??1!
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 23, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
An inner what? Is that like a cult? a McCcult?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Yes. They are an elitist group. They are top top 1% of posters. I am so filled with envy right now.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
August 9, 2007: Traded by the San Francisco Giants to the Los Angeles Dodgers for . The Los Angeles Dodgers sent Travis Denker (August 25, 2007) to the San Francisco Giants to complete the trade.
That’s what I was talking about.
I agree he’ll likely be extended, but I wonder if he still feels pressure to make a move because the Giants are in the position they are in.
my mistake
1,000 pardons. i read too fast.
So, to your original point, if he’s smart, Sabes should be gunshy. (Whether or not he’s smart is open for discussion.) Giants are regressing to the mean more or less at the trade deadline. He’s almost in a damned-if-you-do type situation here. If he stands pat, people are pissed that he didn’t GO FOR IT, and if he makes a move, people will be pissed that he gave up too much (unless the Giants somehow end up playing deep into October).
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
If anything happens, it won’t be until one or two days before the deadline because Sabes likes to wait as long as possible to do anything.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
I saw this posted earlier.....
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/indexn?blogid=22#ixzz0M7IEv2NG
If the Nats are scouting Con. tonight then that means they are probably watching Alderson pitch, and that makes real worried!
Would Sabes trade Alderson for Willingham? And if he did, I hope everyone would run for the pitchforks, right????
Would Sabes trade Alderson for Willingham?
I don’t think so. I think Henry Sosa would be more likely.
Yeah I would trade probably trade Sosa for him, but Sosa isn’t pitching tonight…. Alderson is! I just hope he isn’t going to sacrifice Alderson for Willingham and Nick Johnson or something like that.
If It Was "and" Then Brian Should Pull This Trigger.
If it is just one or the other then he should pass.
by giantsrainman on Jul 23, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm surprised at Schulman
If the New York Daily News reports that we’re talking to the Nats about Willingham, shouldn’t Schulman know this as well? As someone who follows the Giants, he should know MORE than the national media, not less. I even made a fan shot out of this and I’m hurt that Hank isn’t reading what I write. Seriously, Henry. Ron Villone? Joe Beimel?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Sosa's still on the DL according to the Conn. roster
It’s listed as a 7-day DL, and I don’t know when it started, but he did miss his start 2 days ago. He was starting ahead of MadBum for about 4 weeks straight.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I guaruntee (unfortunately) that we are going to end up with Nick Johnson. You watch.. it’s the Sabean way.
Robby Thompson "hey Hinshaw, let me see your hat for a minute."
Alex HInshaw "Why?"
Robby Thompson ,"You'll see...."
I know I spelled that wrong...to lazy to put it on word first.
Robby Thompson "hey Hinshaw, let me see your hat for a minute."
Alex HInshaw "Why?"
Robby Thompson ,"You'll see...."
I garun-tee it.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 25, 2009 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Ron Villone for Ron Villone! It’s two moves in one!
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Honestly I don’t think I’d cry over Tim Alderson being traded. Especially if he got us a decent hitter who we can keep longer than this year.
Unless Zimmerman is coming back (which isn’t happening) there’s no one on the Nats that you would want for Alderson is there?
STRAZZBURGH
Adopted Giant Darren "Speedy" Ford. Said by Andrew Baggarly to be the fastest minor league player and the best defensive outfielder in the Giants Organization. Now playing for your San Jose Giants.
i don’t think he’d give up alderson for willingham, I hope he wouldn’t, but i have been wrong before.
i did hear tim kurkjian, in an interview last night with csn, say that if the Giants offered J.Sanchez for Nick Johnson that the Nationals would take that deal in a heart beat. He finished that comment saying the Giants have no interest in offering Sanchez for Johnson. With that said maybe the Giants and Nats have discussed an Alderson for Johnson deal.
Is anyone else as nervous as i am that Sabes won’t make any deals to bolster our offense before the deadline?! I am getting tired of k-fred, downs, and don’t have much faith in bowkers so-called new found plate discipline.
by Do_the_research on Jul 23, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I can see them standing pat either because they don’t forsee any real upgrades or because they couldn’t reach a deal with someone.
I’m pretty sure Alderson for Nick Johnson would be an awful move…just because Johnson is not really a huge slugger at 1st and he’s only going to be around till the end of the year.
Alderson in a package for Holliday = yes.
agreed!
there is an article on espn.com in regards to the A’s and Cards talking Holliday for the top 3B prospect. i would love to get holliday. he won’t block any prospects, he’ll be just fine defensively in lf, and he will bat cleanup and we can finally move bengie down. my only concern is can and would we sign him to an extension. if we can’t he’ll definitely walk at seasons end, imo.
by Do_the_research on Jul 23, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Here’s my thinking, especially when a lot of people seem to think we should just go after Holliday in the off-season….well to those people I say, I don’t think Holliday will really consider signing here in the off-season as a FA, UNLESS we trade for him now and he has already played here, knowing that he can hit in our ballpark. We’re not going to attract FA hitters unless we grossly overpay for them. So we have to trade for them, and even if Holliday decided not to stay, we would get compensated and with John Barr and Sabean’s work lately in the draft, I like our chances with having 2 extra picks in the top 45 selections of the draft. And also, if the economy is a problem and Holliday accepts arbitration, then we get Holliday in our lineup for a full season next year, which would be a nice thing to have.
Didn’t Holliday say he loved hitting at Pacbell?
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think Holliday will really consider signing here in the off-season as a FA, UNLESS we trade for him now and he has already played here
Hobbess I like you and your posts an awful lot but that premise is somewhere between poppycock on month old bong water. With 197 P.A.’s 272/335/406 ~ .359 wOBA he is no stranger to Mays Field. Coors field is the only other place he has hit more often, and soon Oakland. It boils down to three basic roads.
1) If he hates SF he is going still hate SF and 2 months of him waitting for his get of purgatory card is not going to changed his hating SF.
2) If he wants to be on a post season contender SF has an elite front of the rotation and track record of appreciating glove work that should STRONGLY appeal to the man. In that case it is whether he gets enough money to feel he has cashed in.
3) If he does not care about Sf with will be all about the Money. Then we get the discussion about if this team should be signing guys rather uninterested in being here.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
It's pretty obviouos what Holliday's after
A player doesn’t hire Boras unless they plan to ruffle feathers and go for the money. If your main intent is to get on a team with a good chance of winning it all for the forseeable future you hire somebody else to represent you. I realize that’s not how the Bonds situation played out, but that was a unique confluence of conditions.
Holliday would never sign with us, because we (hopefully) can’t compete with the big bucks and long-term contract to compete with the Yankees, Angels, and BoSox (whichever 2 of the 3 that lose out on Jason Bay) for him.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I get were you are coming from and to some degree it is true. Considerring it is his first free agent contrat I just can’t get too worked over him trying to cash in. And cashing in what Borras is all about.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
+1
I also don’t hold it against Holliday for going for the $$$. If that’s what he wants then more power to him.
What I hate is the players that whine and complain that they never have a chance for a title with their original team, and go on and on about how they want to go to a team with good chemistry and clubhouse atmosphere in a nice city, but then end up signing with the team that offers them the most money. Then afterwards they try to convince the public that it was just a coincidence that the team they chose as the best fit for them just happened to offer the most $$$.
Any player that signs with Boras has to know by now that he’s giving his stamp of approval for Boras’s scorched earth approach – it’s all about Boras’s ego and the player’s lust for money. The league and his future teammates be damned. That’s why I had no sympathy for Varitek (a player I’ve always admired as the epitome of gamerness) this past offseason when Boras’s shenanigan’s almost got him shafted and sitting on the sidelines.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I fully agree with that.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
I too would love Matt Holliday...
But not at the cost of one our top 4 – I would build a package around Neal though
…in mine too, Hobbes. And I agree completely with the idea of trading for Holliday as a precursor to signing him. I was against this previously, but now I think that, IF we can sign him to a new contract, we should trade for him. And I disagree with dave, I think having Matt on the team for 2 months might help persuade him to stay in SF.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
I’d be nervous about signing Holliday as a free agent. A thirty-year-old left fielder who is already showing some decline would be a risky way to spend a huge chunk of the budget, especially since corner outfield is one of the few spots where we have tolerable in-house candidates (Schierholtz & Bowker now, Neal & Kieschnick down the road).
So I take it you don’t want to sign him this winter, AND you don’t want to trade for him now?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
I’d love to have him now, but I’m sure he’s more valuable to some other team than he is to us. I’m certainly not going to try to beat the offer of Brett Wallace.
IF Wallace is included in the Card’s offer, Holliday will end up in St. Louis. To your point Evan, there are just too many questions about Holliday’s age and health to risk trading any of the top 8.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
OK...
…there’s the Top Five, plus Matt Downs, so that’s six. Who are your other two? Barnes? Clark? Kieshnick? Crawford? Dominguez?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Lyle...
For me it would have to be Roger Kieshnick and Brandon Crawford.
Kieschnick because of the bat. Hell, he could turn out to be Matt Holliday.
Crawford because of the lack of postional depth for the Giants, speed, arm, and potential power.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
NV
Seems reasonable. Kieschnick’s strikeouts concern me a bit, but I’m eager to see his progress up the system.
Personally, I can’t stop thinking about Matt Dominguez….
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
LOL
There is no way in hell Holliday would sign with us. He picked Boras to rep him because he’s going for the break-the-bank, minimum 5 year, contract to cap his career. He’s the 2nd best FA available this offseason, assuming Jason Bay opts for FA. The Yankees, BoSox and Angels will all be fighting over Bay. The 2 teams that lose out on that deal will go hard after Halliday. I’m sure there will be a few other teams in the mix, too. We would be insane to get involved in a bidding war for such a non-impact player.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Sanchez or Alderson for Johnson or Willingham
oh gawd no… any combination of the above would be a lousy deal for the Giants. Not that I wouldn’t take either of those guys, but not for a player of that caliber. If they’re going to give up cheap, valuable young arms, then I hope its for someone who’s more productive than most anyone on the Nats. Now, if we’re talking Zimmerman…
by crazedcrustacean on Jul 23, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Sabean won’t trade anything good for 2.5 months of Johnson. He has consistently stated that he won’t go after any player that’s a short-termer unless the other team is giving them away for a bag of balls. The Nats won’t do that with Johnson, because they figure they at least get 1 high draft pick for him in 2010 if he goes the FA route.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
What is so great about Josh Willingham?
by bradleybear on Jul 23, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude has power and takes walks, two attributes that our lineup is sorely lacking.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
214 ISO, 368 OPB, 370 wOBP from a RHB. Heck he has even played back up catcher.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
He's right handed
anybody know his contract status? I personally would be Ok with an Alderson for Willingham and change trade.
\
Robby Thompson "hey Hinshaw, let me see your hat for a minute."
Alex HInshaw "Why?"
Robby Thompson ,"You'll see...."
Am I the only one who keeps reading this thread title as ’Is Sabes Gushy?"
It’s kinda freaking me out.
I kinda hope he is gunshy
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I’m hoping he’s gushy.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 23, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm gunshy about Sabean making a big trade
I don’t trust him anymore, to act in the org’s best interests, and not in self-preservation mode.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I agree, especially if Magowan was still around. And I’m not feeling any better about it now that bow-tie is around, not sure what he will want to do. Plus with Sue Burns passing, it’s hard to know what the Giants are going to do to fill the void in ownership or if they’ll want to make a run to win for her…and yeah lots of uncertainty that could breed desperation moves potentially.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 23, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hold on loosely
but don’t let go
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 25, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
If you cling too tight babe
you’re gonna lose control
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 25, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
The reason I believe the Giants haven't made a trade
They are not a playoff team.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 23, 2009 5:26 PM PDT reply actions
AT BEST!!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
If we had drafted Kyle Drabek LIKE I WANTED THE GIANTS TO, the Giants could be serious players for Roy Halladay. No one ever listens to me. The Giants could have had an ace!
Sorry, but I think this is a ridiculous post. It assumes/implies Sabean is completely at fault for whatever happens. The fact is, there is precious little to trade for, and what there is is pretty overpriced. If you call that gunshy, let’s hope Sabean has ordered all his guns locked up somewhere.
I would be surpised if Sabean traded for Nick Johnson. What is the point? How is he any different than Ishikawa? If anything, because of his defense, I would think Ishi is the better player. If anything, the Giants need a RH hitting 1b, not another LH
That’s not what I was implying at all. I’ve mostly been a Sabean defender. It just occurred to me that he hasn’t really been aggressive trade wise over the past couple of years. There’s many factors for that I think, but at the same time, I think your GM shouldn’t be afraid to take some chances.
He hasn’t been aggressive because the team hasn’t been close to contending
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Just because you’re a bad team doesn’t mean you can’t make some aggressive moves. Though granted we haven’t had a lot of pieces to trade. I just fear we’ll end up being like the Angels and be afraid to trade any of our good prospects, and then a lot of those prospects will end up disappointing and we could have gotten good players for them.
Exactly—-on the flip side, Sabean has never been very aggressive as a seller.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I’ll take the Angels problems – especially if I can get their WS ring. They have been first or second in their division for most of the last decade, including five playoff appearances and the aforementioned ring. Which I hope that they have carried in a very uncomfortable place all these years.
It’s pretty clear that the Magowan era was about sign FA/trade for vets and the plan is now to develop from within… and it’s working. For this year I will be happy with just getting away from a sub .500 record as a start to not sucking any more.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 25, 2009 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Precious little to trade for?
Nate McLouth, Mark DeRosa, Scott Hairston, Felipe Lopez, and Adam LaRoche have al changed teams already, and there’s still most of a week until the deadline. It seems to me like the trade market has both been early and active this season, and, frankly, favoring the buyers. There may not be a huge amount LEFT to trade for (I doubt it), but there’s has been plenty of opportunity.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
The only guy I’d have wanted from your list is Hairston, and I believe that we were the other team in on that deal before the A’s came in at the last minute and outbid us for him. All the other guys are short-term rentals that will be FAs at end of season – so good riddance – except for McClouth who makes no sense for us with our long-term ties to Rowand.
So far, I believe that Sabes has played things well. Because so many teams are still in the playoff picture, we currently have too many teams chasing too few prospects. It will remain a seller’s market until the trade deadline expires on July 31. That’s when it will be a good time to look for bargains on the waiver wire as more teams begin to fall out of the race in August and begin their salary dumps. Let’s have some patience please.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Yea, Sabes has been an Ace for this franchise.
That’s why we’ve had 4 straight losing seasons and are about to kiss another season good bye. I don’t know where you’ve been but Sabean has done little to improve this team, with the very minor exception of the Bonds trade. We should have fired Sabean and kept Colleti.
Great idea
This team needs more Pierre, Schmidt and Andruw Jones
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 24, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think Sabean is to be blamed for the last few years. If anything this team is a lot better than most people here hoped or expected it to be over the past 2 years. And their has been a drastic improvement in the minor leagues. Don’t believe me? Just look at who was playing for San Jose 3 years ago.
He was in a tough situation due to whatever shit Magowan was trying to force on him. Having said that, I still think he could have done a better job then he has over the past few years. There certainly must be some ways he could have constructed a more balanced, competent roster in some areas by taking some chances on some undervalued players or guys who were blocked or due for an improvement that weren’t being given a shot in other organizations.
Colletti is exactly what we don’t need. He’s a turd. If not for Logan White, the Dodgers would be in the cellar. And Sabean did lots to improve the team for his first 8 seasons or so. He fleeced team after team in great trades. Jason Schmidt for Armando Rios and Ryan Vogelsong ring a bell? Or Ellis Burks for Daryl Hamilton? Trading for Livan Hernandez for Nate Bump, J.T. Snow for Allen Watson. These trades are laughers when you consider what the Giants got out of these trades and what the opposing teams got back. One has to wonder if that early and great success lead to the difficulties Sabes has in trades now where he either can’t make them or has to give up too much.
Sabean & Colletti
I also think Sabean shouldn’t be credited too strongly with the last 2 years. I strongly suspect John Barr is the droid we’re looking for instead.
I totally agree that Operation Blue Crush has been a near-total success. I only hope Colletti stays long enough to trade away Kershaw.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
who hired Barr? Sabean did. And Sabean also has to collaborate with him and they along with Tidrow make the scouting/draft decisions. I give a lot of credit to all 3 of them really for the recent upgrades to our farm system.
I give full credit to whomever it was that caused John Barr to be hired. We can assume that it was Sabean’s idea, but we’ll never know for sure. Certainly he had to sign off on it, but for all we know it was Dick Tidrow pleading with Sabes to hire Barr.
Agreed that, as a group, they have done MUCH better than the previous incarnation as far as drafting hitters.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
In case you weren't being sarcastic
So far, I believe that Sabes has played things well.
You mistook my point. I wasn’t giving Sabean kudos for his body of work in the past 4 years, I meant that he’s played this year well so far – most importantly by not going wild and trading a lot of good young prospects for short-term, and marginal, upgrades like LaRoche, Nick Johnson and Aubrey Huff in a deluded attempt to shoot for a quick-fix for our sorry offense.
Now, I’m not a Sabean apologist and I’m not advocating that we offer him an extension now (I’m also not saying he should be fired), but your memory of his history with this club is greatly flawed. First, Bonds was signed as a FA before Sabes came on board. Secondly, you forget that he was the architect that gave us the teams that were almost always in contention in the mid-90s to early-2000s. Granted, he hasn’t been very good in the past 5 years (and he was horrible between 2004 and 2007 while trying to remain a contender with an aging lineup built around Bonds), but he has done a lot to “improve this team” in the past. Here’s just a sample of some of his past good deeds:
1. Sabean made the genius trade of Matt Williams for Jeff Kent and 4 others that laid the cornerstone of our consistently winning teams of the mid-90s and early-’00s.
2. Sabean kept Bonds, and let Will Clark walk when both were eligible for FA in the mid-90s.
3. Sabean regularly fleeced other GMs starting in the mid-90s to come up with such trade and FA acquisitions as Jason Schmidt, Robb Nen, Livan Hernandez, Shawn Estes, Kirk Rueter, Mark Gardner, J.T. Snow, Brian Johnson, Ellis Burks, Andres Galarraga, Benito Santiago, Tim Worrell, David Bell, and Reggie Sanders – all without giving away much in return.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
With Schmidt, Nen, and Kent you had HOF level performances for their perspective positions for some of the seasons they were here.
Kent cost us Williams, but the other 2 we got for nothing.
What, no love for Jason Grilli? LOL. Actually he was a reliever for the Rockies this year until they released him recently.
And don’t forget about Rueter – he was an outright steal. I remember seeing some stat about 6 years ago showing that Rueter had the best winning percentage for any lefty in the majors during the first 5 years that he pitched for us.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Bonds/Kent/Snow/Aurilia/Gallaraga/Santiago/Lofton
Dammit , I’m NOT going to cry…
It could be Cain or Tim reprising Rueter’s role if we could land (or preferably grow) a consistent bat for the next three or four years How much will the economy play? Are revenues down? If we contend they ought to stand pat or even rise – baseball’s a nice escape , and the Giants seem to have a number of attractions – all of them pitching , it seems…wake UP , Pablo!
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 25, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
Isn’t it amazing how complacent one can get when your team always seems to be in the thick of a title chase? We got spoiled by the Bonds’ years, and Sabean/MacGowan rode that horse too long.
To answer you’re question, I think the bad economy will continue for a lot longer than many are currently forecasting – I can easily see uneployment staying in the 11-15% range, and the stock and real estate market being roiled, all the way into the end of 2011. If that’s the case, then MLB budgets are going to come crashing down (especially for the small- and mid-market teams), and cheap, young players are going to be in huge demand. One bright spot in that scenario is that the Giants are sitting pretty good financially (they own the stadium and will pay off the debt soon) and they have a pretty good stockpile of exciting young players in the majors and minors. Don’t fret, I believe Posey and Neal will be in SF soon, and we have a good group of hitters in rookie and A ball now.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Dude, I Love you man!
One bright spot in that scenario is that the Giants are sitting pretty good financially (they own the stadium and will pay off the debt soon) and they have a pretty good stockpile of exciting young players in the majors and minors. Don’t fret, I believe Posey and Neal will be in SF soon, and we have a good group of hitters in rookie and A ball now.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Ishikawa is better than a guy hitting .305/.415/.421. A guy who is generally considered a glove at first. You’re really going to go with that argument?
To be fair, Ishikawa isn’t made of porcelain.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2009 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Why extend Sabean???
Can someone please explain to me WHY Sabean should be extended? He continues to overpay players past their prime (Roberts, Renteria, etc) and has not made any trades that have substantially improved the Giants in the past decade (give or take a year).
In addition, with the exception of a few draft picks, Sabean’s overall ability to draft quality talent also ranks below average. Why extend him? If the Giants resign him, they’re sending the message that mediocrity is the name of the game in San Francisco.
I think you can make a good case for him staying or going.
I do think it is funny though how much most team’s GM’s aren’t really better than Sabean yet some have much better reputations. I know a lot of Indians fans who hate Mark Shapiro for instance, yet many here would probably love to have him.
I think the difference between a great GM and a decent one isn’t a really big one. The difference between a great one and a Bavasi or Littlefield is however, vast.
wise words
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
Why wouldn't free agent hitters want to hit in SF
A recent post about the giants not hitting on the road was loaded with
posts stating that contrary to popular opinion, AT&T is indeed a hitters
park!
by bradleybear on Jul 23, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
It's simple, really.
Claiming that ATT is a pitcher’s park is a good way for agents to justify inflated contract demands.
It is interesting to me that many of the top spending franchises now play in parks that are either actually or perceived to be extreme in one direction or the other. The Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies, Astros, and Cubs in hitter haven’s, the Mets, Tigers, Mariners, and Dodgers in pitcher’s parks.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Dodger plays kinda fair, like AT&T does. But I do think most left handed hitters will steer clear of signing here. Unless they are absolute mashers or they go the other way well like Adrian Gonzalez or Delgado…
I agree that Chavez Ravine is pretty neutral since they took out the foul territory.
But I’m referring to reputation here, and both parks (Dodger stadium and ATT) still have out-date reps as pitcher’s parks. Reps that are exploitable.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Because
even if the reality is that it’s a slight hitter’s park, the perception is still that it’s a big time pitcher’s park.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Well I’m sure it scores as a hitter’s park in the realm of singles, doubles and triples, but HR’s it still has to be in the middle or lower end of the spectrum.
The guiding hand
I wonder how much Neukom drives the plan. It seems possible that a new owner is going to have a lot more patience than a guy who hasn’t won the prize in a decade and is watching his franchise player turn 40.
Maybe Neukom’s position is, “We are not one player away from rings, and one player away from a first-round exit doesn’t turn me on. People who think we won’t spend are wrong: We did spend. Poorly. Zito, Rowand, Renteria, and the Big Unit are drawing big paychecks. We are not the Yankees, who will keep spending until they’ve got a shot. We spent. Now we wait for this crap spending to age off while at the same time our young talent ages in.”
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
A couple of things come to mind really:
1) It’s still a week away from the deadline so just because we haven’t made a move yet, doesn’t mean we aren’t going to make one. As Baggs mentioned recently, most of our previous trades have been a day or so before the deadline so it’s more of a relevent question to be posed after the deadline as opposed to now.
2) I think the reason we’ve not made many trades in recent years is because we’ve had a lousy team so we haven’t been buyers & most of our trades have been selling off veteran players. Also we had the well documented veteran team & poor farm so we didn’t really have much in the way of tradable assets.
3) To be honest i don’t mind a cautious Sabean, as much as it’s fun as a fan to see lots of trades & as much as we could do with improvements in some areas, i’m not all that concerned if we, in our current position (where we’re a side on the upslope as opposed to down slope) are patient & wait for the right deals to materialise.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Brian Wilson is not too important a piece.
At least, he shouldn’t be.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
I read this as “Is Sabes gushy to make a big trade?”.
/gushes all over matt holliday
ROWAND I LOVE YOU SON!
old signature:
"apparently the adoptive parent of the 2nd best hitter on the team.
/shrug"
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 24, 2009 1:01 PM PDT reply actions
So much for Holliday =(
I guess we’re going to wait around until no one is available to trade for.
Blabbering on the radio. Lazy turd.
"I can't hit the ball until I hit the bottle!"
by Li on Jul 24, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
GIANTS BRASS!!!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
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