Pitchforks and Torches at Dave Cameron's House!!!
See towards the bottom for his comments on Pablo.
Plus I heard that Dave Cameron doesn't like puppies OR ice cream. I think he's just a grump.
4 months ago
Uribe nee Gonzalez
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Not that I necessarily agree with him, but if you want, go look up the things he was saying about Yuniesky Betancourt and Robinson Cano three-four years ago and smile.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 20, 2009 2:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
*disagree with him
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 20, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pablo’s .360 BABIP is the same as Derek Jeter’s career BABIP. Instead of “he simply cannot maintain a .360 batting average on balls in play over the long term”, I would have preferred, “It’s pretty unlikely that he maintains a .360 batting average on balls in play over the long term.” It isn’t just Jeter, either. Matt Holliday, Ichiro, and Bobby Abreu all have career BABIP over .350. It’s unusual, but it happens.
by Grant on Jul 20, 2009 2:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The assertion that Joba Chamberlain would put up Cy Young numbers if he was in the NL also strikes me as a bit ridiculous.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 20, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was about to post the same thing
That comment was ridiculous.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jul 20, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A bit?
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 20, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the extreme
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Jul 20, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a perfectly reasonable assertion, given all the success Zito has had in the NL. He’s “that close” to winning a cy.
by khenderson on Jul 20, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he's fat
Fat people can’t have a high BABIP, it’s just science people!
by superk1ng on Jul 20, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never thought of that. What was Tony Gwynn’s BABIP? Did they even keep that stat back then?
by m34josh on Jul 20, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.371 career BABIP
but Sandoval doesn’t play for the Mariners so he’s not going to factor that in
by superk1ng on Jul 20, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So maybe its the opposite…Only fat people can sustain a BABIP. Damn! Nevermind, forgot about Cecil Fielder
by m34josh on Jul 20, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Sandoval critics would do well to look at the graphs showing how his K rate, BB rate, and isolated power have changed over the course of the season — he has gotten dramatically better in every way. So even if/when the BABIP drops, there’s plenty of evidence that his other skills will make up for it.
by Evan on Jul 20, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
The only reasoning that he gives for Pablo not being able to sustain this level is that he’s fully matured in his physical growth. But, what Cameron neglects to note is that Pablo has an extreme history of swinging (and hitting) at balls outside the strike zone. All Pablo has to do is be just a bit more selective in the future (even then he’d still be way above average) to vastly improve on the location of the pitches he hits. Better location = higher probability of driving the ball for a hit.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Jul 20, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scherzer > Cain? Seriously?
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jul 20, 2009 2:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He’ll be significantly cheaper than Cain for the next half-decade, hitting his arb years right around when Cain’s a free agent. So while not better, perhaps worth more in trade.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jul 20, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
taking that along with the fact that Scherzer pitches in a hitter’s park, I guess that makes some sense… I really think the guy is undervaluing Cain though. He isn’t expensive and is a proven horse. Scherzer has a lot of upside but he has never shown that he can handle the load of being a mlb starter and be a 200 ip per year guy. A bunch of commentators have expressed concern about his motion and he has already been battling shoulder inflammation over the last year.
Seems like the guy really values upside a lot.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jul 20, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
It’s not like Cain is 10 years older than Scherzer. Also, history is full of young pitchers that dazzled ’em in the minors and their 1st year in the Majors, but then petered out when the league caught on to them. Almost everybody says that the hardest thing to do in the Majors is to be consistent. Cain has already proven he can do that for the last 3.5 years. Scherzer has proven nothing yet.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Jul 20, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember that contract situation is about half the value on this list.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2009 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know
General I like his work – but he seems to be getting a little extreme w/ the hyperbole.
The statement about Joba is ridiculous – the guy has a 4.74 FIP in the AL – to think that would drop even enough to make him a good pitcher in the NL is a stretch, much less a legendary pitcher.
And there are far to many absolute statements in his writing. All the stuff about Sandoval cannot possibly do this, or that he simply will not improve because of his body type etc seem ridiculous.
by FairweatherFan on Jul 20, 2009 2:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I read Fangraphs daily and I like Cameron’s work. I think the Joba comment is the most ridiculous thing I have read by him, so I will give him a pass at a poor attempt at humor. I also think this site is collectively drinking the Panda Kool Aid (me too!). But there is a really good chance that Panda Kool Aid not only looks nutritious and delicious, but it actually is!
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 20, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’m not even sure you can call some of it hyperbole anymore. The Nyjer Morgan=Dunn was hyperbolic, though Cameron only half acknowledged that. Some of the stuff in the list betrays lapses in judgment, even to the point of batshit crazy with his Joba comment. Not good. He needs to check himself a bit….
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jul 20, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s always been like this though. Honestly, go read his comments on this post about Yuniesky Betancourt. There are some grade-A lolz in there.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 20, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
xeifrank sighting!
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jul 22, 2009 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he never said he would WIN the Cy Young in the NL
Just that he would look like Cy Young, the pitcher.
Meaning his K rate would fall apart and he’d throw 300+ innings a year.
His point is somewhat valid though. Pitching in the NL vs the AL is probably a difference of saving 10 runs over 200 innings, possibly more. Barry Zito being the exception.
by NeifiChicken on Jul 21, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not a big Lincecum guy, obviously. Just too many risks. I’m not a proponant of trying to hit a lottery ticket with a top pick. It’s mroe important to get a good player when you have a high pick.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 20, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
DAVE CAMERON HATES THE GIANTS OMGWTFBBQ THIS IS THE BIGGEST OUTRAGE IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 20, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Cameron apparently has 5 Wife and Girlfriend’s.
VOTE SANDOVAL
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Jul 20, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SCOT SHIELDS AT BEST
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jul 21, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Classic line. And something to remember whenever anyone talks about how bad some pitcher’s mechanics are.
by Evan on Jul 21, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I’m saving the riot gear for tomorrow’s roster move.
by Merope on Jul 20, 2009 3:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no matter what happens
shits goin down
Congratulations and Thank you Jonathan Sanchez.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jul 20, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As we all know, Rick Aurilia will not be gone.
by SFGuy on Jul 21, 2009 3:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rich Aurilia is never gonna:
1.) Be DFA’ed
2.) Retire
3.) ….
by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2009 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
4)give you up
5)let you down
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you calling Rick Astley a liar?
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I somewhat agree on Pablo
It’s hard for me to imagine him getting much better than this, or even sustaining this ridiculous production, but truthfully, I think Pablo might be one of the hardest guys in the bigs to really project.
His path is already crazy enough, with how he went from very poor hitter in low-A to tearing up 3 levels of baseball the next year. I thought he’d regress big time this year, that he’d show flashes of brilliance but ultimately end up around .275/.310/.425 and he’s clearly blown that sky high out of the water.
Bottom line: My rational side feels there’s plenty of cause to agree with Dave, but personally I just can’t confidently say anything about where Pablo is going. I’m just going to enjoy the ride as long as I can and hope Pablo can continue to exceed my every expectation.
A part of me will always hope we had traded Bengie and used Pablo at catcher this year, only to trade him this off-season, because can you imagine the trade value of a switch hiitting22-year old catcher hitting .320/.370/.520 and under control for 5 more years???
We could have set ourselves up incredibly for the next 5-6 years+
by NeifiChicken on Jul 21, 2009 9:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Pablo is just a one-of-a-kind player. Who knows what he’ll do. It’s just great we get to find out.
by Evan on Jul 21, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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