Post-Game Recap: The Giants Narrowly Avoid the Series Win
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 2, 2009 7:36 PM PDT
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PrintYou know what? I thought I was leaving for vacation tomorrow, but nuts to that. I'm leaving right now. Find another place to read about Barry Zito's foibles and mishaps -- I'm out of here.
Wait, don't go. I'm sorry. It's just that I...I...I've run out of things to say after bad Zito starts. it's been a couple of years, and I've had a good run, but the well is dry. I can't think of a single thing to write about Zito right now.
Unless....
Yes, of course! I have it! Read my thoughts on Barry Zito after the jump!
You know, I'm starting to wonder if the Barry Zito contract was a good idea.
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I'm psychic
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
Barry Zito is still bad
The Giants are annoyingly average
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
sabean, drunk call miami:
yo marlins, hear me out: Sanchez for Uggla, straight up
when they hang up, call pittsburgh
yo pirates, hear me out: Sanchez for Sanchez, straight up
when they hang up, take another drink and start unloading the farm for more gritty vets
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 2, 2009 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Well one good thing about these early start times, I don’t have to stay up past my bedtime to suffer the miseries of our SFGiants.
2nd best record in the NL. Man this is a tough crowd.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 2, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
it’s an illusion
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 2, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Who’s better besides the Dodgers?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
You'll see by September
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
But you guys are making statements about the Giants right now so this discussion is about the right now. So who’s better?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Well right now
There are at least a few NL teams (especially in the NL East) who’re better than the Giants based on their true talent level but have performed below that level so far this season.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
There are really only two teams in that division (the Phillies and Mets) that are underperforming. One of those teams has to win the division. It’ll probably be the Phillies. And do you expect the Mets to ever recover? They have way too many injuries, many of which are gonna take quite a long time to heal.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
I don’t know if you’ve looked at those pitching staffs, but Tyler Walker took the mound for the Phillies the other day. They’re not that good.
by Missing Barry on Jul 3, 2009 5:37 AM PDT up reply actions
It's all part of Sabean's plan
Phillies: Tyler Walker, Scott Eyre, Jack Taschner
Mets: Pat Misch
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Jack is a different kind of special agent now.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
BUT THEY PLAY IN THE EAST
THEY MUST BE BETTER RITE?!?!?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Pythag is 41-36. This team Lincecum and Cain and the bullpen is are really good at preventing runs.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 2, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
you can use your illusion, let it take you where it may
we live and learn and then sometimes it’s best to walk away
Me? I’m just here hanging on
It’s my only place to stay
at least for now anyway
I worked too hard for my illusions
Just to throw them all away
Ok, so, I don’t want to say anything bad about my son.
But… I really can’t apologize for EVERY start. Or can I? I mean, he did strike out 7 batters!
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
That guy in the gamethread was right; Zito didn’t exactly get hit hard, and the defense let him down in the first inning (though one of the defensive slip-ups was his own) and I think in the fifth inning as well — Rowand looked like he misjudged a fly ball to center that put runners on second and third with no one out.
Still, whatever. Yeah, your son didn’t get it done.
Next to Sanchez, Zito has looked pretty OK, lately!!?
/rose-colored glasses half-full
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
half-full of tears
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 2, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
What really frightens me most is this: If ever there was a series to remind Sabean why he doesn’t trust the youngsters, and why he has such sweet, mad ardor for gritty, savvy veterans, this was that series. I know—the youngsters played pretty well those first two games, but Sabean won’t remember that. I fear he’ll remember Pablo’s face plant the last two nights, along with Nate and Ishi swinging at any and everything. He’ll remember Fred Lewis wandering around in LF, as if in a daze (but he won’t remember similarly bad play from Rent and Uribe).
This was the type of series that I fear could easily inspire Sabean to pull the trigger on that Sergio Romo-for-Shea Hillenbrand-type deal he’s been pondering for the past three or four weeks.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
As Yoda would say, "There is no age or age not; there is do... or do not."
I think you raise an interesting point, but I think the series also highlights the fallacy that there is supremacy in Gritty Veterans™ or Playing The Kids™. There is absolutely no magic in the grit of the vets, nor is there necessarily any magic in the kidness of the kids. Sandoval is fantastic, but by no means the prototype (as witnessed by the fact that nobody thought he would be anywhere CLOSE to this good). And the rest of the young guys…well, it is hard to believe they grew up in the ‘Moneyball’ era and have incorporated none of the lessons there.
I think our vets are a mixed bag (Aurilia gotta go; Winn has a role to play here; Rowand we’re stuck with, etc.). I also think our young guys are proving not to be great (except the Fat Panther, of course) and are absolutely not delivering intelligent at-bats. I am to the point where the idea of building exclusively from our corps of young guys holds little romantic appeal anymore— I want guys who can play the game well and thoughtfully, regardless of age. I would have thought that our best chance of that would have been developing guys over the past few years, but it ain’t happening. Exhibit A: Travis Ishikawa, who showed plate discipline in spring training and thereby earned the ML job… and then immediately became a promiscuous slop hacker.
Mostly, I am frustrated. Not by the losses in the roadtrip or anything like that. I am frustrated by the consistent lack of thoughtful play by the young guys (and the occasional Renteria/Uribe brain bubble).
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jul 2, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
THere is absolutely no magic in the grit of the vets, nor is there necessarily any magic in the kidness of the kids.
Well, I think the diff is that, with gritty vets you have a preeeety good idea what you are gonna get. With kids, there is more of that wonderful chance that they’ll surprise everyone and go all PANDA, hitting their 99% PECOTA or something.
Ann-ee-way : even if we get into the playoffs and get lucky twice, do you really think that this offense could outscore the Yanks or Red Sox four games out of seven? I spoze with two aces, it’s possible. My stronger hope, however, is that Timmy, Cain, the rest of the pitchers, Pablo, Nate, TI, and the second basemen will all continue to develop, and that they will still be around when the cavalry ride in from Connecticut/Fresno in a year or two. I don’t have much investment in Molina, Winn, or Randy Johnson in that scenario.
I don’t usually stick up for Sabean, but if he sours on some of these kids, who can really blame him? Sandoval has proven himself, but the rest have either been disappointing, or haven’t proven that they deserve to play everyday on a good major league team. I still want Ishi and Nate to play everyday till the trade deadline, but if they don’t raise their level of play, I have no problems with Sabean doing what he thinks he needs to do. Unlike others, I don’t believe he’s willing to sacrifice any important parts of our future to get the player(s) he needs.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
haven’t proven that they deserve to play everyday on a good major league team.
Yeah but, Sandoval and a few semi-exceptions notwithstanding, this failure to develop as projected or hoped seems to have happened with position player after position player after position player after position player, on Sabean’s watch. The sample size is pretty large at this point, and, again, 2009 notwithstanding, the evidence looks pretty strong that there is an overall pattern. Past a certain point, I began looking less at the individual players, and more at the system’s philosophy of coaching and development.
I don’t know if that argues more or less for playing kids, but – I do know that it’s at least possible for a position playa to come up through a team’s farm system and become an all-star, or at least a productive every day regular for a few years. May that we have a potential few of those on our hands now …
Can you name other GMs who have produced more decent-to-good position players in the last several years?
I am not saying Sabean’s great, but it is an uncertain business and I don’t know that his performance is terribly out of step for his profession. Theo Epstein is a hell of a savvy GM (w/gigantic payroll to spread around), but he hasn’t really drafted and developed anyone yet— hasn’t been in place long enough, really.
I absolutely hate that we have not had a philosophy of the game that we have instituted throughout our minor league system. One of the things in ‘Moneyball’ that I loved was that the A’s instituted a plate discipline philosophy, and followed it up with an explicit expectation that players will walk once per 10 PA’s, or they would get a fine (a small fine, but when you’re only making a few hundred dollars per month, any fine is an attention-getter). The Giants have never even thought of that, let alone put in place the managers/coaches to implement and enforce it, let alone actually defining the expectations and tying that to team success.
But does that make Sabean bad, or does it make him normal? Again, I wish like hell that we had developed more and better players. I just don’t know how much of this is the fault of Sabean personally, nor that he is that far below VORGM.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
* The A's instituted that "1 BB/10 PA's or pay a fine" thing in their MINORS ONLY, of course.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
I don't wanna look up who was GM with whose drafting and whose development
But, off the top of my head, I think of the Phillies system 2000-2004 which popped out Rollins, Utley, Howard, and Burrell. The Indians, late nineties. Oakland, around the same time. Even the Yanks and Red Sox in the past fifteen years or so keep coming up with valuable pieces like Pedroita, Youkalis, Varitek, Nomah, Jeter, Posada, Cano, etc.
It’s possible. Sometimes, with a competent development system, the Calvin Murrays of the world do develop into the Vernon Wellseses, and you don’t always have to go and sign the Marquis Grissoms of the world to answer the same questions.
those redsox players you mentioned are under different GMs
Epstein has really only produced Pedroia
My main point
is that Mueller, Feliz, Yorvit, and Battlin’ Marvin Bernard, our four biggest “successes”, have zero all star appearance between em and a career peak 5.0 WARP3 (Mueller 2003).
I guess what I’m trying to say is, Sabean and his player dev crew :
And
for the record – and I know I am in a minority here – I place the failure to translate Todd Linden’s Fresno 2005 into something useful at the Phone squarely on the shoulders of THE SYSTEM, and not on the lad himself. IIRC, in 2006, they would sit him for a week, or send him back down for a bit, if he had an 0-fer or two, and the chrconic reported that they kept feeding him crap about being more of a free swinger. In my opinion – if someone can clearly rake in AAA, if you give em enough of a chance in the majors, they will eventually do something good (see : Cust, Jack) … as long as you have the good sense to help their development, rather than actively fuck with it.
Yes
Sabean has utterly failed in this regard for—what is it, 12 years now? And I agree, I believe there is a pattern. I mean, it stands to reason that if Sabean values the kind of players we know he does, why wouldn’t the scouts and minor league instruction and development all reflect those same values? We’ve certainly borne witness to the conga line of Dante Powell, Jacob Cruz, Marcus Jensen, Armando Rios, Calvin Murray, Damon Minor, Tony Torcato, Lance Niekro, Jason Ellison, Dan Ortmeier, and Todd Linden.
I have repeatedly vowed to myself that I would never again allow the flame of hope to again flicker towards any position player coming up through the Giants farm system—not Brian Sabean’s Giants farm system, anyway. But I’ve failed repeatedly, at least where Pablo, Fred Lewis and (lately), Nate Schierholtz are concerned.
I actually think there may be legitimate reason for hope, with the hiring of John Barr and the ascendance of Jeremy Shelley. Perhaps we’ll look back and see a dividing line between position players drafted/signed before 2007 and those who came after. I’m at least hopeful that the Giants are identifying and drafting different types of hitters now than they were before John Barr. Hopefully, they’re also making changes to how hitters are being coached and developed in the minor league system.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Well put
I have not followed who the staff members in question are. I am pleased to read that there has been a change, and that there is now reason for hope.
Of course I don't think this offense could reliably outscore great teams in a long series.
I never suggested that they could. I support making intelligent trade(s) to upgrade our offense a notch. I would not support making enough trades to upgrade our offense to among the best in the league, because that would absolutely take every bit of talent we have in the minor league + Matt Cain.
But with an average offense, I think we could make a potentially great run in the post-season, thanks to great pitching.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
I still like the idea of Adam Kennedy
Even though I realize he’s been pretty cold for the last month. But dude’s got a 114 OPS+ and would be a humongous upgrade if he can even manage about a 100-105ish OPS+ for the rest of the year. His BABIP isn’t too outlandish to think that could happen and with Mark Ellis back, the A’s seem to have less of a place for him. I doubt he’d cost very much.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
That’s a bit optimistic, but I see what you’re saying.
I would rather have Kelly Johnson, though, who must be available.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Kelly Johnson has been awful this year
His sOPS+ is 70.
For comparison, Fred Lewis’ sOPS+ this year is 85.
Also, Kelly Johnson is injured.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Ah, I hadn’t noticed that they put him on the DL with tendinitis. Still, Johnson is underappreciated. They treat him as a platoon player despite a career .296/.357/.440 line against LHP (510 PA). He’s been bad this year but also has a .238 BABIP, and his career wOBA is .338, despite this year’s terrible .285. He’s also adequate defensively despite his shaky reputation.
He’s also the kind of player that Sabean won’t likely get – patient, draws walks, decent power, 20% K rate.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you’re absolutely right about this. I’m guessing that part of the problem is just that it takes time and repeated opportunities to develop a major league eye and major league discipline at the plate. And I suspect that hitting in spring training has a lot more in common with hitting at the AAA level than it does with hitting at the major league level. But I also suspect that Travis, Nate and Fred are not being helped by the Giants’ “patiently aggressive” hitting philosophy. Possibly (at least in Lewis’ case) they are being royally screwed up by the tutelage of a hitting coach like Carney Lansford, who evidently lands a good bit more heavily on the “aggressive” side of that equation.
Anyway, my point wasn’t really to say “The kids are alright—they just need a little more time to develop”. I have very little confidence that the Giants will be able to score enough to get to the postseason with the gaping holes and inconsistency up and down their lineup. Actually, I’d like to see the Giants be able to trade for a professional hitter or two to man first base, second base and/or one of the outfield positions. My main problem is that I think the Giants have a GM who is a poor evaluator of hitters and hitting. I don’t trust him to identify good hitters around the league, and I don’t trust him to get a valuable hitter in a trade without giving up far too much value in return.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Never seen Sadowski before. Thought this was pretty funny.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 2, 2009 8:13 PM PDT reply actions
Sadowski looks like steve buscemi
Idk, “hes just funny lookin”
by hawaiiconnect on Jul 2, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 2, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
From Wikipedia:
Lucas endures perhaps the worst prank yet from his constant tormentors Bruno (Tom Hodges) and Spike (Jeremy Piven).
Piven? And his name was “Spike”? WTF?! Must watch movie again.
"El once, chico. Eleven."
From his Grizzlies cap?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 2, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Paulino’s smile has a “I just nailed your girlfriend” feel to it.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
Sadowski...
…the look on his face in this pic suggests that he may have farted right before the photographer snapped it, and the photographer has just been greeted by the scent.
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...
Fart humor tardiness...
Didn’t even see that fart reference above before posting.
Redacted.
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...
it’s really hard for me to fault zito too much today. Lewis really should have caught that ball in LF pretty easily and it seemed like rowand got a terrible jump on the ball in the 5th. he pretty much dominated between those two innings and who knows what would have happened if those plays had been made.
by TimLincecumIsGod on Jul 2, 2009 8:14 PM PDT reply actions
yes he did
my point is, if those plays get made like they should zito might just cruise through the game. instead he’s put in high stress situations because of the defense and he allows some runs to score. (though walking in a run is almost never acceptable)
by TimLincecumIsGod on Jul 2, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Zito fell into:
- thanks whomever created this.
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 3, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Why does Zito surprise?
This is exactly how he pitches: A tantalizing game or two then an absolute pooch screwing!
Or am I misreading disgust for surprise?
on the plus side
Posey is back in the lineup
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=g_box&gid=2009_07_02_sjgafa_stoafa_1
Also, Scott Barnes is fucking awesome
wat
Should be: Russ Ortiz v. TIm Lincecum Saturday. That should be entertaining
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Unfortunately Ortiz will now pitch a 2 hit complete game shut out and the Astros will beat the Giants 1-0. Lincecum doesn’t lose.
If MLB Wants To Black Out Certain Games For Fox Saturday Baseball Then I Am All For It.
Like the Giants FO, I am all for Selig’s ideas. You guys just don’t get it. From my evaluations, Saturday baseball is better this way.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 3, 2009 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Opps
My feeble attempt at an impression of a McCovenite.
Fail
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 3, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Zito....
Just when I think you have turned the table,
Like 2008 Cain, just not able.
Your Oakland self is all but gone,
How many years was your contract long?
Around these worlds you get no lovin,
Don’t even crack a smile around us McCoven.
A word of advice or a simple hint,
You better pitcher better if you want to be a Giant!
0-2 count to the first batter/ Bengie Catching
I know he wants whitey to catch for Sad-sack-of-a-cow-ski, but please don’t let Bengie catch Zito. Note Zito had 0-2 count on the leadoff batter in the game, and then grooved one right down the middle on 0-2, luckily he didn’t give up a dinger. Freddie then botched a fly, I’m fairly sure Winn would have had it, why did Fred get the start over Nate, it wasn’t Wainwright on the mound today. Pablito is in a mini-slump, hopefully he will come out of it rapidly. It is amazing how the gmen hit the top pitchers and then suck vs the bottom of the rotation. Our bottom of the rotation just isn’t as good as the bottom feeders they pitch against. Even though Corriea was bombed today, and kinda also sux. The giants gave up on him and wouldn’t even pay him one eighteenth of what they pay Zito. Correia has been marginally better than the Zitser most of the year. When Bengie is catching, Zito constantly has that deer in the headlights look. And it is amazing how Zito can implode, as can Sanchez in a heartbeat or a wink of the eye.
So, not a Sadowski fan then?
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Jul 2, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Kerouac
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 3, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I was listening to Sportsphone on the way home from dinner (dad’s choice, not mine), and there was some lame caller who was bashing Fred Lewis. Damon Bruce then put Lewis on the same level as Eugenio Velez. That made me angry.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
Yeah
Great analysis, Damon, except NATE SCHIERHOLTZ HAS NEVER PLAYED IN LEFT FIELD.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
“oy oy oy”?
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 3, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Nate is a better radio host Damon
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
VELEZ?
VELEZ?!?!?!?
DAMON BRUCE YOU ARE DUMBER THAN LASORDA
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 2, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Damon Bruce is all just an act to get people riled up and call in to his insipid show. I don’t know why I was of the opinion that Bay Area sports fans were better than to fall for that. I really didn’t think he’d last.
I agree with this.
It’s like when people complain that Radnich is an idiot (duh) but his show just seems like next-level baiting all the way through. i mean, he explicitly STATES that that’s what he is doing.
oh well. [sigh] sports radio, what can you do. meeting of the minds.
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 3, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
+googleplex
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
damn, I AM brainwashed
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
time to get an expresso
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
Next time you’re unsure how to spell something, just googol it.
by non sequitur on Jul 3, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Did I do that right?
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
Lewis made no admissions of guilt. Instead, he made comments that could have been interpreted as criticism of his coaches. He said he would have caught the ball “if I had been in my normal position, but I was moved in. It’s a difficult play to make when you’re a few steps in. I had a chance to get it, but it was tailing away from me.”
So is he gonna blame the coaches positioning for all the other balls he has misplayed this year?
Man
I gotta say, the defensive thing and the “not playing and then fucking up royally when you do get a chance” thing is grating on my nerves. Suck it up, keep your head down and go out there and play hard when you get the chance, dumbass. Don’t sulk and play like shit.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
OH-- interesting read. Yeah, you might be right.
I took it as Aurilia’s days might actually be numbered. But your read might well be right.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jul 2, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Aurilia’s days will never be numbered. He will last the rest of the season. I think that he’ll hit enough that, if he doesn’t retire after the season, that Sabean will offer another minor league deal in 2010.
I am pretty much for whatever needs to happen to get Bowker up.
That said, Lewis is still an above-average LFer defensively. The problem is that he should be an excellent LFer defensively. His speed still gives him better range than most but his bad routes are ridiculous.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
+1
Though, he’s probably dropping pretty close to league average defensively. There’s just no way a guy with his skills should be merely league average.
I still like him as a player, but I certainly understand all the frustration.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
Oh fuck this...
Fred gotta go. Enough is enough.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 3, 2009 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Um, what? When your looking for playing time the last thing you want to do is speak publicly against the people who decide if your name is on the LOLINEUP card. Again, um, What?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 3, 2009 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Blaming others?
Sorry jponry, but he just earned a new derisive nickname: Fredmando Lewnitez
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I saw this. DFA or traded before the end of the year.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Jul 3, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Flew’s not making any new friends tonight
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
Baggs is not covering himself in glory
apparently Richie is immune from criticism, as is Bengie, but god help him,. Lewis doesn’t get RBI’s. he’s a convenient whipping boy.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
game summary in a gif
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
preserve? its a summary… this was today
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
That wasn't the whole game
That was just the first inning. The rest of the game was boring and soul-crushing.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
yeah….boring and soul crushing doesn’t make a great gif
and watching MLB Network Quick Pitch just now
“awkward for Lewis, who is usually a stellar outfielder”
Usually stellar means excellent, exemplary, outstanding.
I think he using it to mean, having to do with the stars which are usually far away from any baseball game
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
A gif of hitter after hitter hitting weak ground balls would define this team.
It would be depressing as hell to look at, though.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
sadly true
we get it live tomorrow at 7…..
who do we face? Paulino? Pitcher fighting for a rotation spot?
Think I will stay home and dream about timmy day
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
Tomorrow is the only game I’m going to this weekend. I will miss Lincecum (I refuse to call him Timmy) but I’ll watch Sunday on TV.
Do you refuse to call Howry “Bobby” or Sandoval “Pablito”?
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
At least Willie is a dude’s name. Christy and Jackie? C’mon!
by Missing Barry on Jul 3, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Off the top of my head...
Tommie Agee, Dickie Thon, Billy Ripken, “Teddy Ballgame” Williams, Donnie Moore, Mickey Mantle, Joey Votto, Benito “Benny” Santiago, Sandy Alomar (Sr. and Jr.), Robbie Alomar, Bobby Abreu/Thigpen/Bonds/Bonilla/Crosby
The list is probably close to endless
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Could have also included misplay on the grounder that cost a run.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
LOL
I tried….couldn’t find a clear shot
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
Thanks! I missed the first inning on TV. I’ll tell you, finally getting to see the team was quite interesting (I’m in Cardinals country) – Nate was very disappointing at-bat. Zito was, well, Zito. No plate discipline by the hitters at all. Ouch.
So, tell me about this John Bowker….
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
The bottom line...
…is that the Giants departed AT&T nearly two weeks ago six games above .500, and will return six games above .500. I distinctly recall this road trip being referred to as quite significant (and possibly disastrous) by numerous posters here (with all of whom I agreed.) I also remember thinking to myself, Man, they could get back from this trip below .500! Alas, they return with a 5-5 record, which is exactly what a team is supposed to do on the road (especially on road trips which include teams with winning records.)
A breakdown of head-to-head results against the teams with whom the Giants should be battling for the Wild Card:
Cardinals: 4-3
Brewers: 3-3
Marlins: 2-2
Mets: 1-3
Rockies: 3-2
Phillies: N/A
Total: 13-13
Thus far (and I know it’s way too early to glean much from the aforementioned results), the Giants have done far better than I certainly could have hoped.
My point: Though my knee jerked as quickly as anyone’s last night when FaiLewis missed that fly ball, and I don’t feel too hot about the last two games, I’m still pleased overall. I honestly do not feel as terrible as I normally would after two consecutive losses, because this road trip could have gone far worse than it did (just like the season as a whole.) Perhaps I’m conditioned (understandably so) to expect the worse; whatever.
Now, talk to me tomorrow night after the guy who won Game Six to deliver the Giants’ first WS championship CG 3H’s us…
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...
Perspective in a post-loss discussion? HA!
Actually, I totally agree with all of your points.
I think what’s happening is a clear example of the more expectations are raised, the more disappointing each loss is. At the start of the season, I put my over/under on being pleased/disappointed at 81/81, saying that I’d be happy if the finished above .500 and bummed if they finished below .500. I think I also picked them to win 85 games.
Compared to others, I was a cock-eyed optimist. (I love that phrase!) Now they’re on a pace to win 86 games and there’s a freak-out every time they lose. Should any team really be crestfallen after losing a game in St. Louis in which you’re starting you’re #4 guy in the rotation? Sure, losing any game is a bummer, but this is a game I would have circled as a “loss” at the start of the season.
I’m not saying we should be satisfied with the current record, but let’s not suck the life out of the party. We’re in this thing and some act as if we’re watching the biggest bunch of sad-sack loser ever to take the field. If those people can’t find any enjoyment in how the 2009 Giants have performed thus far, it baffles me why they even bother being a Giants fan.
/end.rant.exe
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I’m getting the same feeling after watching these games against other wild card teams. They’re not that good either, or we’re not that bad. The Mets and Phillies are clearly better than us, but the Mets have been reduced to a below average team with all their injuries, and the Phillies pitching staff is a mess. We have a ten game homestand coming up with two bad teams and one mediocre one, and there’s a chance we enter the all star break about ten games over .500. Then Sabean goes out there and adds one solid bat, and off we go.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Living in Phillies country, they’re really not all that good. Their pitching staff is pretty bad, and if Jimmy Rollins keeps playing like Brian Bocock sans glove…well that team doesn’t scare me all that much. Apparently the Phillies didn’t get the memo/didn’t watch the Giants of a few years ago, because Jack Taschner, Scott Eyre, and Tyler Walker have all “contributed” for them this year. Then look at their starting rotation – they’re awful, and only Hamels is a good bet to perform better for the rest of the season.
by Missing Barry on Jul 3, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Random thoughts
- Zito’s ERA is 4.82, ERA+ is 89, WHIP is 1.436 (which is better than last year’s 1.6(!)), and he doesn’t even average 6 IP per start. I’ve been trying so hard to think of him as having turned the corner, but – those numbers are frankly atrocious. Yeah, Flewis should have caught that ball, and Uribe shouldn’t have kicked that ball, but screw the excuses – Zito needs to pull through sometimes, because guess what? Any defense is going to mess up sometimes.
- Rowand’s OPS+ is 120. When did that happen?
- Molina’s walk total ballooned to 3 at some point when I wasn’t looking! Whoo! On the subject of Bengie, Kruk and Kuip were bemoaning his lack of consideration for the ASG, and in some ways – some horrifying ways – they’re right. What a commentary on NL catching that a guy with an OBP of .270, THREE WALKS, an 82 OPS+ doesn’t sound like that ridiculous a choice for backup catcher! I guess Terry Steinbach hit the game-winner in an ASG once that he didn’t deserve to be in.
I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too.
McCann, Iannetta, Soto, and the other Molina have all been much better than Molina.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
Soto has really not been very good
Though you could argue a bit better than Bengie. Yadier same deal.
Anyway, I’m no stranger to Molina’s terrible play – not actually arguing he belongs in the ASG, just saying that NL catching is just bad this year.
I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too.
Yadier’s got the the defensive rep, though.
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
Soto has been a much better hitter than Molina. His AVG might be low, but his OBP is 70 points higher. Bengie has showed a bit more power, but not nearly enough to make for the huge difference in OBP. Same thing with Yadier, and he’s also great defensively.
Really, it’s sometimes easy to forget what it means to have a .270 OBP. It’s not just terrible – .300 would be terrible – it’s way beyond that. You could slug .500 and still be a bad hitter if you’re making an out in 73% of your plate appearances.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
Yeah, Flewis should have caught that ball, and Uribe shouldn’t have kicked that ball, but screw the excuses – Zito needs to pull through sometimes, because guess what? Any defense is going to mess up sometimes.
I’d argue that the team made those defensive blunders and scored zero runs until after Zito was long gone. You like for your starter to give the team a chance to win, but this was also a case where the team gave the starter no chance to win.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
+1
Complaining about Zito’s outing last night is really just an excuse to complain about his salary. Better off starting a GNAT’s BRASSZ thread.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Jul 3, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. This was a prime example of “Pitchers don’t win games, teams do.”
Randy Winn is in time out until his OBP gets back over .330.
I completely agree. It’s all shoulda coulda woulda at this point, but I bet if Freddy “I don’t see too good” Lewis catches that very catchable ball, Zito gets out of that inning with no more than one run allowed. Which keeps his pitch count down, which could have realistically led to a 7 IP, 3 ER start.
And maybe the same thing happens if Uribe doesn’t fuck up and if Zito doesn’t fuck up too… I would say all three fuckups contributed quite a bit, I don’t think you should put it all on one guy’s shoulder. There was a lot of shitty defensive play to go around that inning.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
True that; also let’s not forget about AaRow getting a bad break on the ball later in the game. I guess what I’m getting at is that I thought Zito got a raw deal last night. Last night he was dropping that curve on the inside corner to righties the best I’ve seen him do it since joining the club, fwiw, which is either $18M, or a cup of jack squat.
Heading to tonight's game soon
Stop by section 304 if you want to say hello. I’ll be in row 8 with this sign
I think I’ll be in 305 tonight.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
OH FRED, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
where are u gonna be in 305? (row?)
and I’m in reserve, not box. Doing the Ronald McDonalds 2 tickets for 26 bucks deal. Best bargain!
LOLINEUP AND LOL POSSIBLE ROSTER MOVES
Manager Bruce Bochy said there will probably be a roster move made after the game. Rich Aurilia is ready to come off the bereavement list and a position player (Fred Lewis? Matt Downs? Maybe even Aurilia?) figures to be the odd-man out. Stay tuned.
CF Rowand
LF Winn
3B Sandoval
RF Schierholtz
SS Renteria
1B Ishikawa
2B Uribe
C Whiteside
P Sadowski
per baggs
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I know most are done with Fred
but I’ll be pretty pissed if they DFA him so they can keep Aurilia around for a few more weeks.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
It doesn't really make sense
My guess is that they’ll send down Sadowski or Sanchez. I mean, this team really shouldn’t be carrying 13 pitchers.
Now that I’ve said that, I’m sure they’ll cut Whiteside and make Aurilia the backup catcher or something.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
They really should send down Sanchez. He’s not getting any PT out of the pen, he probably isn’t going to get his spot back any time soon, he has options, wtf is the point of him being on the team?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Sanchez will be back in the rotation
After today’s lol disaster.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 3, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
that would be pretty fucking stupid
Fred Lewis as a pinch hitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rich Aurilia as a pinch hitter
yeah but he's not a gritty HTWG
Sabean is an absolute idiot if he picks Richie over fred. There’s no place for the former on this team.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
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