Hey Fred Lewis!
by jpo on Jul 2, 2009 4:36 PM PDT
233 comments
nice catch there in the bottom of the first. oh wait you didn't catch it. i'm done with you. but thanks for helping prove to everyone that nate schierholtz deserves playing time over you. you should go back to the minor leagues and learn the following.
a) learn that generally your first step should be back and towards the direction of the ball is going if the ball is in the air.
b) don't run after fly balls with your glove out. it slows you down and it makes you look like you don't know what you're doing (which you don't).
c) if you're in left field and a righty hits you the ball in the air it will hook. if a lefty hits a ball in the air it will slice. at either rate the ball will always travel back towards your right side.
d) catch the fucking ball!
that is all.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Fred is going to knock himself unconscious out there. It’s seems to be getting to the point where every game he’s costing us one or two runs.
by I'm_a_Man on Jul 2, 2009 4:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
gamethread seems like a good place for this
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jul 2, 2009 4:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm still a rook.
i didn’t know exactly what the game thread was. rookie mistake.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 2, 2009 5:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Favorite Futurama episodes?
Jurassic Bark
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 2, 2009 5:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yup
and its not even close. Saddest cartoon ever.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 2, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the only one that evens come close
The Devil’s Hands Are Idle Playthings
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 2, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ooh that one was good.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 2, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with this.
i didn’t cry, but i was very close.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 2, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one where they take that space cruise ship and it’s like the Titanic and Zap Branigan makes Kiff the Captain and bails in one of the last escape pods.
Also the Death by Snu Snu one.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 2, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t watch Jurassic Park since it’s too sad, but Space Pilot 3000 was also excellent.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 2, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn it, this post was completely wrong
I meant The Luck of the Fryrish
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 2, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The part where Gennaro bites it always gets me.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 2, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is America.
It’s “toward” in America.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 2, 2009 5:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wha? This is ’murica!
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 2, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Be quiet you!
I’m patriotic about exactly two things: 1) The difference between toward and towards, and 2) not throwing a team name into the end of the Star Spangled Banner.
And also how much I hate the word ’murica.
So that makes three things.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 2, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
4. Giant among Angels
That makes four things.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 2, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
during the last month of school my 5 year old students were really enjoying showing off their initial consonant skills, and would generate long list of words [I’d spell the big words they’d sound out the smaller ones] that began with a certain letter.
One day we did letter M
“what else starts with m?”
“’merica!”
confused the hell out of that child.
by Merope on Jul 2, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also...
i think fred lewis should switch the brand of fielding glove he uses. he uses a wilson a2000 which usually has more stiff, less flexible fingers and a more narrow pocket. he needs a more flexible glove with a more spacious pocket because it will help him hang on to the ball when it hits his glove, but he’s still gonna drop a lot of balls. this is not a properly broken in beginners outfield glove.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 2, 2009 6:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you should share this advice with him next time you go to a game
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 2, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s actually a good observation. A pity he’ll never get the word.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Jul 3, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the words of Gary Radnich
That’s good knowledge
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 3, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right on.
but look at that fucking thing. it’s a very badly broken in glove.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 3, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like you said earlier, The A2000 are just that, they will will always have stiff fingers no matter how broken in the pocket is. Ort’s Rawlings would probably be a much better solution. Now if only the Rawlings glove came equipped with better routes.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 4, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a yard-wide-radius butterfly net, with velcro lining, maybe?
by campanari on Jul 2, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 2, 2009 7:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis should go to the American League where he can be a below average designated hitter.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 2, 2009 7:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Frustrating Fred flusters me
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 2, 2009 9:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
New promotional giveaway!
The Fred Lewis Bobble-Hands Doll… (my wife’s idea)
"It kind of gives everybody else out there who is not a big person the motivation and the inspiration that they know they can do it, too."--Tim Lincecum
by Timlincecum.com on Jul 2, 2009 10:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lol… this is nothing new.. I’ve been over Fred for a while, and can’t understand why people still defend him.
Only when I am eliminated by MIke Krukow will my life's work be complete
by NateisGreat on Jul 2, 2009 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he really was a very solid player last year and was for a portion of this year, though he has obviously now completely fallen apart? I mean, he barely even plays anymore, I’m not sure why there’s still such a disproportionate amount of ire for him (of course, he fucked up today in the one of the only times anyone has even seen him in weeks, which doesn’t help, but…)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I admire your resilience defending your favorite player, but the dude is now hitting .250 and still playing shitty defense, and his OPS is far below guys we have never even head of, so the “I’m not sure why there’s still such a disproportionate amount of ire for him” makes you seem like way too much of a homer. Come on, we all want someone good in LF, and he is definitely not it!
by m34josh on Jul 3, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chill out, I’m explaining why people are/were still defending him.
I’m sure you can see elsewhere that even I’m reaching the boiling point with him. He’s a bench player now, so saying “we all want someone good in LF”… well, he’s really not the LFer anymore. Randy Winn appears to be.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No need to chill here. We’re all here wanting the Giants to win the WS, no matter how much “backseat GMing” goes on. I just think its reached the point where we would all understand if a change was made permantly, so I think the ‘amount of ire’ is appropriate. Same thing is happening in Detroit w/ Magglio, Chicago w/ pretty much everyone on the Cubs, etc. Thats baseball, nobody is right until October/November, but hopefully we get there with or without him
by m34josh on Jul 3, 2009 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he’s BENCHED now. He has started 4 games in the past 2 weeks. He is not playing. That’s why I don’t get why there’s still so much “BTW I HATE FRED LEWIS AND EVERYTHING HE STANDS FOR” floating around (yesterday’s game notwithstanding.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a rn in with Bowkermania is never easy
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jul 3, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the "I’m not sure why there’s still such a disproportionate amount of ire for him" makes you seem like way too much of a homer
Not being pissed at Fred for screwing up doesn’t mean you’re a homer. It means you like Fred Lewis. Some people, myself included, are reluctant to give up on a guy who (1) played well last season and (2) seems like a really great guy. That said, he’s been screwing up too much lately. If the Giants give up on him, which would be perfectly reasonable at this point, I’ll root for him on whatever team he might wind up on (unless it’s the Dodgers).
Osiris, lord of the dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
by neurofarm on Jul 3, 2009 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely, kind of like Rajai Davis. I don’t want him on my team, but I am happy to see him helping out the A’s when I catch a game
by m34josh on Jul 3, 2009 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing that pisses me off about Lewis, is really Bochy’s fault, not Fred’s. Nate has clearly won the job, yet whenever he has one bad game, or Fred gets up there as a pinch hitter and does something decent, he benches Nate and sends Lewis out there to fuck up again. Of course, after Fred has a terrible game, Nate comes up there as a pinch hitter and gets a hit! Stop benching Nate, you big headed idiot. He needs you to show faith in him. If you want to play Lewis so badly, rest Rowand or Winn.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2009 6:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about that, it seems like Fred’s lost his job. He’s only started 6 of our last 21 games. But I agree about Winn – he actually leads our team in games started, and I don’t really understand why.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can chill out on that, Fred’s started all of 4 games in the past 2 weeks and 6 in the last 3. He’s ostensibly become a bench player who spells Nate a couple times a week.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but why should Nate sit at all a couple of times a week if he’s the starting rightfielder? He’s the youngest of the outfield trio, and even though he’s a lefty, he hits lefties way better than Winn does. He’s better than Lewis both offensively and defensively, so there’s no reason at all why Lewis should get ANY starts for Nate at all, unless Nate is injured or tired, and I doubt Nate was either of those last night. Start him for Winn and Rowand when they need rest, and that’s it. Last time Lewis started, he pulled him in the SIXTH inning for defense. If you have to pull that guy for defense that early in the game, he really shouldn’t be out there in the first place.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s better than Lewis both offensively and defensively
I’d agree with the defense, but I think the jury is still out on offense. Nate has only 127 at bats this season, so I think SSS issues apply. Last season (468 AB) Fred hit .262/.351/.440. At the end of may (156 AB), Fred was batting .276/.376/.423. I think there’s been a lot of overreaction to June performances, in which Fred was terrible and Nate was amazing. I wouldn’t be surprised if that were to completely reverse in the coming months… actually I would, because that would mean both are getting at-bats, and that’s just not big head’s style.
Osiris, lord of the dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
by neurofarm on Jul 3, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this, mostly. I mean, I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that Lewis is going to be gone, but people have REALLY overreacted to Nate’s good June. Even with it, his overall line isn’t particularly impressive and there are a lot of warning signs – his ISO is only .006 higher than Lewis’s (and both of them are pretty mediocre in that regard.) His IsoD is still only .026 and his BABIP is .353.
I no longer really believe Fred’s the answer, but I don’t see many reasons to think Nate is either right now.
What I really want to see is Bowker, of course, and I guess it’ll probably take a DFA or trade of Lewis (or a trade of Nate) to make that happen. At this point, I dunno, I don’t think Lewis really deserves a DFA but at the same time, realistically, you can’t expect him to do much better than he did last year and while a ~2 win player is very useful, it’s not really irreplaceable.
Of course, in the end, we’ll DFA Lewis and call up Bowker and Bowker will be like “LOL I WAS JUST KIDDING ABOUT THE WALKING THING GUYS” and hit .260/.290/.400 again, but it really is worth a try.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I expect to happen as well, Bowker will come up and not be that much of a different guy from what we saw last year, hopefully that won’t be the case. But with how well he is hitting in AAA they really HAVE to find a way to give him a shot right now and some playing time. I also share your sentiment about Nate, not sold at all.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 3, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the same argument could be made for Guzman regarding giving him a shot at some big-league ABs.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jul 3, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guzman should stay in AAA. He needs work if he has hopes of ever playing in the NL. Also he had a huge slump after he went back down to AAA.
Bowker meanwhile has literally torn the cover off the ball and set a Fresno record with 12 HR’s in June. He definitely deserves a shot.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 3, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guzman is pretty definitely not the droid we’re looking for.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Jul 3, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree WRT Guzman… dude’s got a .040 isoD in AAA, I don’t think that’ll translate very well.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree that there’s a Nate overreaction, because I don’t see anyone saying that Nate has proven he’s our everyday rightfielder for the next decade. What I, for example, would like to see is him playing everyday for the next month, so that Sabean can make a decision on whether he needs to bring in a veteran outfielder by July 31st, or whether he should next turn to John Bowker. We have seen enough of Fred Lewis this year to know that he’s not the answer, so it’s time to now find out about Nate.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
People saying that Nate is indisputably better offensively than Fred = overreaction, because it’s mostly based on one month worth of polar opposite production. You can point to the minor league statistics, but I think most people would not believe it so strongly if not for the month of June 2009.
He has been playing everyday though and I’m pretty sure he’ll continue to do so for the near future. We ARE finding out about Nate right now, so I don’t think there’s any need to act as though he’s not getting a fair shot now. He is.
And I still disagree that we’ve seen enough of Fred Lewis to know he’s not the answer… we’ve seen one great month, one good month and one godawful month out of him this year. I mean, he keeps getting worse (and it doesn’t help that he’s pretty much buried on the bench at this point) and there’s not much anyone can do when he seems to not really seize any of the opportunities he’s given, but I still pretty strongly feel that people are overreacting pretty hugely to a one month sample size.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rxmeister often replies to the wrong comment, I don’t think he was actually responding to you.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You…You You’re good you. No you are better than good. You’ve got a gift.
by wilriv21 on Jul 3, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, rxmeister’s comments always appear in the most random places. I wonder if he does it at home too.
Mrs. rxmeister: Hey honey, can you take out the trash?
Rxmeister: But why should Nate sit at all a couple of times a week if he’s the starting rightfielder? He’s the youngest of the outfield trio, and even though he’s a lefty, he hits lefties way better than Winn does. He’s better than Lewis both offensively and defensively, so there’s no reason at all why Lewis should get ANY starts for Nate at all, unless Nate is injured or tired, and I doubt Nate was either of those last night. Start him for Winn and Rowand when they need rest, and that’s it. Last time Lewis started, he pulled him in the SIXTH inning for defense. If you have to pull that guy for defense that early in the game, he really shouldn’t be out there in the first place.
Mrs. rxmeister: […]
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Awesome. So perfect.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jul 4, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This site desperately needs a stat encyclopedia
I keep having to google acronyms
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 3, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL I WAS JUST KIDDING ABOUT THE WALKING THING GUYS isn’t an acronym.
Just FYI
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 3, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, FYI means For Your Information
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 3, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, GROUG means Giving Random Opinions Underwater, Guys
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Jul 3, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it’s an acronym, WHY ISN’T IT CAPITALIZED? HUH? HUH? THAT’S WHAT I THOUGHT, LYLE.
That was an acronym, by the way.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 3, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm…that’s WIICHHTWITL , then.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 5, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have just about counted Nate out
I once said that Nate could be Garrett Anderson. The problem is, it’s far from a sure thing that Nate would even be early career Garrett Anderson (who wasn’t very valuable), much less suddenly turn up the power and become late career Garrett Anderson.
Then there is the additional handicap that Nate is left handed and hitting in Mays Field. I think the deck is stacked against Nate. Far more so than other semi-prospects.
I still prefer Lewis over Schierholtz, even with the former’s struggles and the latter’s hot streak.
However, Schierholtz has shown the ability to be a decent pinch hitter (which, I do believe is an ability). Together with his decent defense, I would just as soon keep him around. Not as a starter, but as a bench player.
That leaves Lewis as the guy to get rid of to get Bowker up to the bigs. (Unless Torres [who is a valuable guy off the bench, too)], Rowand or Winn are removed).
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Jul 3, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bowker needs to be up. Also, I have ragged on Nate a ton, but even I have to say that his current streak is pretty impressive.
That said, his current .321 batting average is pretty empty – not much power and very few walks. It’s kinda good Hillenbrand-ish.
I’m willing to give him more of a shot, but Bowker should still be the first priority.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just it
Even when he’s hitting well, he’s not been terribly valuable. And, right now, early career Garrett Anderson seems like a ceiling
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Jul 3, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garrett Anderson is a good comp.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 4, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bochy gave Nate a mental day off. Swinging and missing at 3 straight in the dirt curve balls can send you into a funk real fast.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They oughta do this
to Aaron Rowand more often.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jul 3, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Randy Winn.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 3, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting benched after a bad game can also get you in a funk really fast. It also increases the pressure on you, because you feel like every time you’re having a bad game, you’re not going to be in the lineup the following night. And make no mistake about it, if Fred didn’t make that misplay and went 2 for 4, Nate would be on the bench again tonight against Houston.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn’t benched, he got a day off.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy gave Nate the day off because he’d started eight games in a row.
That seems like a pretty good time to get a day off, especially considering his last couple games had been bad.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 3, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 3, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a while he looked like he’d be a solid hitter, but he always looked lost in LF (and I was ridiculed for saying that at the beginning of the season)
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 3, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in all fairness though, he only looks lost when balls are hit to him.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice to read that Fred blames his coaches for positioning him in a spot that made it hard for him to make the catch. What bullshit. Boo fucking hoo Fred. I’ve always been of the school that if you get your glove on it, you PROBABLY should have caught it. Sure sometimes it really is a tough ball and it’s not the worth thing in the world, but tonight and often when you screw up it’s because you take some of the worst god awful routes to flyballs that I’ve seen this side of Marvin Benard. It’s nice that you work hard, but a lot of people work hard and don’t improve, sadly I think this describes your work in the OF. And your work at the plate too actually.
I like Fred, but it makes it really hard when players come up with bullshit excuses and don’t take any accountability for their faults and for their failings on the field. This is what makes being a Sharks fan so difficult too, most of them are just “aww shucks” and don’t take any blame for playing like dogshit.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 3, 2009 2:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I can’t stand when players (or people in general) are not accountable for their mistakes
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 3, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s probably one of my biggest pet peeves in life. People not being accountable for their actions, it’s not really that hard to do. When you don’t it just makes you look like a huge jackass.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 3, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Armando Benitez
He did his job.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
by EliminateMe on Jul 3, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just watched the highlights. Am I alone in thinking that that was kind of a tough play? Yes, he butchered it technically—Fred has an unerring gift for looking terrible—but he did have a long, long way to go. Would Schierholtz have made the catch? Would Bowker? I doubt it.
by Evan on Jul 3, 2009 8:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It didn’t look as bad as I was expecting in the gif in the post-game thread, but I’ve come to expect that.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Nate was playing, he would have been in rightfield with Winn in left. And yes, Randy Winn puts that ball in his pocket.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Winn would have caught that, Nate might have too. I doubt Bowker would have.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn’t gif the goofy route he took to get there…..with better instincts he could have made a 2 handed catch on that ball
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
by merkin on Jul 3, 2009 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not 2 hander, but easy backhand. Slows down and starts drifting back, they speeds up when he realizes balls slice.
Man, tonight’s game can’t get here soon enough…. we need to redeem ourselves…..
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GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
by merkin on Jul 3, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That does look like a misplay, though they didn’t show his entire route… the Cards announcer did remark that he was playing very far in though, fwiw.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s definitely a misplay. He gets a late jump, and then it looks like he gets scared of the wall as he closes in on the ball. Bad as it looks, though, that ball is just as much a double for most left fielders; even if they play it perfectly, they won’t get there in time. It’s a textbook illustration of why defensive stats say Lewis is a fine outfielder while fans say he sucks.
by Evan on Jul 3, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fans? You got Kruk and Kuip calling out Lewis on that play.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kruk also says that Sergio Romo is good because he gets groundballs, and that Fred Lewis’s opposite field approach makes him a good hitter against LHP, .
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty reasonable things to say in a context free environment.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If by “context free environment” you mean a place where facts are meaningless and reality is an illusion, then yeah. But in the real world, both these statements are flat out wrong. Romo is one of the most extreme flyball pitchers in the majors, and Lewis is terrible against LHP.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, we know Fred doesn’t hit lefties well, but if you told me a certain left handed hitter has an op-field approach, i’d like his chances to hit lefties.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it’s not like Kruk said it two years ago, when Fred just came up – he was talking about it about a week ago. By then you’d expect a guy who’s entire life revolves around the Giants to know that Lewis can’t hit lefties. And the Romo comment is inexcusable – a few games ago he went on and on about how important it is that Romo is a groundball pitcher. Seriously, even someone who’s never heard of Romo would just need 30 seconds on Google to find out that’s not true.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, I don’t know the context in which these supposed comments were made. But dude, think about what your really saying here. That fans and 40 year vets of the game don’t know when a play should have been made. I half expect you to consult Fangraphs before you cheer or groan a particular play.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
every pitcher that faces the Giants is a sinkerball pitcher that can get a ground ball anytime he wants it, according to Krukow. I think Mike’s mind has been numbed by years of watching undisciplined Giants’ hitters swinging at pitches in the dirt and hitting DP grounders. It’s not the pitchers Mike, it’s our hitters!! That goes with the other Krukow thing that drives me crazy when he says a pitch was a “good pitch” when it’s a full foot off the plate and a stupid Giants’ hitter swings at it and misses. No, Mike, it’s a terrible pitch, not a good one. Don’t mistake bad hitting for good pitching.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not the pitchers Mike, it’s our hitters!!
Here context makes Krukow right. It’s a damn good idea to throw a foot off the plate to Giants hitters, because they swing anyway. It’s good strategy, and good pitching.
I agree about the everyone’s-a-groundball-pitcher thing though. Do your homework Kruk!
Osiris, lord of the dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
by neurofarm on Jul 3, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh man, you got me. You got me good.
I’m saying that Krukow is wrong a lot of the time. He’s a good announcer, but he’s wrong a lot of the time. I respect him, but the mere fact that he thinks something isn’t enough for me to be convinced that it’s true.
Lewis played that terribly. That’s what we all saw, and that’s what Kruk saw. Nobody’s doubting that. That’s not the question though, the question is whether or not most fielders would have made that play. Would an average LF, with average LF speed, average LF hands, and an average LF jump, would have caught that ball, had he been positioned where Lewis was? I don’t know – that’s what I thought when I saw the play live, but I haven’t watched it since. Evan thinks that most LF wouldn’t catch that, I’m guessing that you think they would. That’s fine. But I don’t have any problem admitting that I think that a system that looks at every single play made by every single LF in every single game this year might be able to teach me something I didn’t know. To be honest, I find it laughable that combining objective analysis with your own subjective one in order to reach a conclusion is somehow a ridiculous concept in your mind.
And the context: Romo was pitching, Krukow was talking about how he’s a groundball pitcher. I’m not sure what else to add.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re trying way too hard to be clever and snarky at the same time. Bottom line – nearly everybody who has bothered to comment thought the ball should have been caught. And that include beat writers, TV reporters, and Lewis’ own manager. If you are telling me I should throw away my own observation, and that of numerous others, because of what Evan THINKS a defensive stats system WOULD say about the play then you are being ridiculously absurd. But by all means, continue to defend someone talking out of their ass.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re trying way too hard to be clever and snarky at the same time.
I half expect you to consult Fangraphs before you cheer or groan a particular play.
and you’re not?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? I thought my snark looked effortless.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the difference between snark and wit, you can tell snark is constructed.
by satyricrash on Jul 4, 2009 2:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve been here for two months, and you’ve contributed absolutely nothing to this site. I wouldn’t be so quick to announce that and established, intelligent poster is “talking out of their ass” out of their ass if I were you.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
STFU
(please?)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 3, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What metric are you using for contributions?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 4, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that’s not what Evan said – he said “it’s definitely a misplay” and then stated that the defensive metrics show that Lewis is a fine defensive left fielder.
He does state that the ball was just as much a double for most left fielders, and I can’t really disagree when LF around the league is stocked with the likes of Manny Ramirez, Jason Bay, and other good bat/bad fielder types.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it was a misplay, no matter whether or not other LFs would have gotten to it, he took a bad route. Now, if, say, Adam Dunn wouldn’t have gotten to that ball whether or not he misplayed it, because he’s too slow. However, if Fred hadn’t misplayed it, I’m pretty confident he would have made the play.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Jul 3, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irrelevant when you’re trying to evaluate a player – all that matters is how many balls he catches, not why he doesn’t get to the ones he doesn’t.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I really agree with that, but I was mostly just being pedantic anyways.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Jul 3, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, this is what I was trying to say. Different outfielders have different limitations. Fred is frustrating to watch because he’s good at the hard part (getting to the ball) and bad at the easy part (catching it). Most left fielders are the opposite. But from the olympian vantage point of the stats, it doesn’t matter.
There is a case to be made that the Lewis-type of outfielder is more damaging to team (and fan) morale, though.
by Evan on Jul 4, 2009 6:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You expect an average left fielder to make that play. That’s the bottom line. Now it could be that multiple individuals who have watched thousands of games are wrong about that, but I’ll go with that when it agrees with my own opinion. Plus, I know how tenuous the current start of the art is for defensive stats.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, it’s the “watch the game instead of the stats” argument. I’ve never heard that one before.
Everyone agrees that Lewis should have had that ball, regardless of whether all, most, or some LFers would have caught it. The debate about Lewis’s defense isn’t going to be settled over a single play. It’s time to move on.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t put that meme on me. We’re talking about one play. Unless you got stats that show the probability of on out being made on a fly ball with similar characteristics (i.e. location, trajectory, and hang time) by an average left fielder, I’ll go by what my eyes told me and what every commentator confirmed. And dude, I love stats. I live stats. And I’m sure I’ve got more statistical training/experience than 95% of the people here.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do know that the average left fielder is not a very good fielder, correct?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 3, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
The average center fielder playing left field will get to it… the average left fielder will not.
Take, for example, the fine fellow who plays left field for the Houston Astros. Positioned as Fred was in that game, there’s no way he makes that play.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All you’ve done is say the average center fielder is marginally better than the average left fielder. Something we already know. That doesn’t in any way tell us whether this particular ball was within the marginal “territory” defined by the differences in average ability.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously, there’s no real way of knowing whether an average LF makes that play or not. But people can have an opinion one way or the other and some people seem to be of the opinion that the kind of guys who usually play LF (the Adam Dunns, the Carlos Lees, etc.) would not make that play. You are of the opinion that they would. Without having access to the specific zone data (I think you have to buy it from Stats Inc., I suppose we wouldn’t know.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, it’s just MY opinion. Let’s not mention my opinion seems to be shared by a great majority of the people who saw the play live. But you got one thing right, it’s just an opinion on both sides until someone does the study AND it’s vetted. So you see, this play can’t be a textbook example of why defensive stats say Lewis is a “fine outfielder” (not average) while fans say he sucks….. yet.
Gameday has hit locations, BTW.
by khenderson on Jul 4, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Dunns and Lees hit DINGERZ, Lewis…. does not. Hence, it’s okay when they drop them. Now OK when FLEW does.
by zuma420 on Jul 4, 2009 2:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you got stats that show the probability of on out being made on a fly ball with similar characteristics (i.e. location, trajectory, and hang time) by an average left fielder, I’ll go by what my eyes told me and what every commentator confirmed
You basically just described UZR. UZR looks at all the balls that were put in play around the league, and divides them into groups based on their location, angel, and speed. After adjusting for better handedness (affects where the fielder is positioned) and park, it determines whether each ball would have caught by the average fielder at that position or not. It has some bugs, but overall it’s a very good system. I don’t know how to check UZR for specific plays (if you’ll email Fangraphs I’m sure they’ll tell you), but overall, in a decent sample size, Lewis’s UZR is better than most LF.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 4, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
After adjusting for better handedness
That should be batter handedness, in case that wasn’t clear.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 4, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you. I love Kruk, but he says a lot of things that aren’t grounded in reality. I’ve found myself more frustrated with him over the past couple of years.
by xanthan on Jul 3, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many guiness after the game. And way too many boilermakers on his way home from the park every day :-)
by m34josh on Jul 3, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean during the game.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jul 4, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still love him but I have to kind of tune out a lot of what he says.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Jul 3, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
JUST LIKE FRED LEWIS LOLOLOL
AMIRITE
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
K-THREAD
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jul 3, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
I LOL’d
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jul 3, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There seems to be a significant number still on the bandwagon
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 3, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can only jump off one guy at a time.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 3, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Serious question:
Is Fred out of options or could he be sent down?
I’m not ready to release/DFA him, but I am ready for Bowker Bow-chicka-bow-bow it on the big team.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jul 3, 2009 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is Fred out of options or could he be sent down?
I think Evan would like to have a word with you.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
excuses excuses
fred lewis might have been playing a little too far in, but he clearly didn’t sprint to the spot where he anticipated the ball going (which is one of his main fundamental flaws in the outfield) and most outfielders with a decent first step and a decent glove that don’t run after the ball with their glove arm out would have caught it. fred lewis tends to jog to balls as he gets closer when he should be sprinting to the spot and camping under it or having a good chance to be in position to be under it.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 3, 2009 11:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lewis’ outfield defense is one of the primary reasons he repeated levels in the lower minors….and obviously he didn’t improve all that much. And if he did…then I shudder to think how bad he was before.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 3, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t John Manuel of Baseball America touting freddy as a potential center fielder a few years back? Projected starting center fielder in 2010, if I recall.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably, sounds about right if memory serves. Manuel used to do the Giants top 30 and often has been pretty optimistic about a lot of their prospects over the years.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 3, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
kinda kills his credibility though, doesn’t it.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he was wrong about one player? Hardly. Everyone thought Delmon Young was going to be great….oops.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 3, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to imagine anyone looking at Fred Lewis play the OF and think, “someday he might be a center fielder.”
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he should be playing CF. He’s certainly fast enough, and I don’t think we can fault John Manuel for thinking that a guy with Lewis’s speed wouldn’t be able to field well enough for CF.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s one of the most ridiculous statement I’ve read here.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He means he should be a center fielder if only because of his physical talents… not that he necessarily should play it as he is now, but a guy with his talent should be able to play there. There’s nothing ridiculous about that.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The most important physical attributes for an outfielder is vision and hearing. Speed not so much. Lewis’ play in LF tells me his physical talents are coming up a bit short. I’d have his vision checked, and then his ability to distinguish the direction/location of sound events.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dummy Hoy also disagrees.
Also – despite his slump – it seems strange that Lewis would have the vision to hit but not to field. You’re right that his instincts are terrible, and that explains it better than some speculative hearing and vision problem.
Also, Lewis’s speed still makes him a better than average LFer. Sure, you’d rather have a guy with a good jump on the ball who is also fast, but speed generally makes up for mistakes. On the other had, someone like Bengie Molina could have the best instincts in the world and it wouldn’t matter, because he’s just too slow. Sure, Fred is no Carl Crawford, but he’s by no means a terrible OFer.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good first steps are all about vision and hearing. Lewis drops too many balls to be an average left fielder. There’s a fundamental asymmetry when evaluating players who continually blow routine plays – even if they make up for it by making out-of-zone plays. Standing behind that asymmetry, i can tell you Fred Lewis is a below average left fielder and would be a terrible center fielder.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis is a bad center fielder, and was clearly lost in CF when the Giants tried to put him there. I don’t think anyone disputes that, it’s just that with his speed he should be a good CFer and he isn’t.
And really, Lewis gets to a bunch of balls that you don’t notice, because he didn’t screw up; it isn’t just out-of-zone plays, it’s in-zone plays as well, because he can run down balls that he judges correctly and those he initially misjudges. He would be a great LFer if he didn’t drop balls or let them fall in as often as he does.
Especially for a guy with his speed, he’s really frustrating, but people just don’t notice as much when a guy reads the ball correctly, gets a decent jump, and just misses the ball because he’s slow.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its one of those things where people buy into "effort"
Fred running and getting there and dropping it is viewed as far worst than token OF not having the range to get there in the first place. I’m not sure why people can’t understand the basic concept.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 3, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I notice everything Lewis does – and that’s why I think he is, at best, a tolerable left fielder. I just think you might be over weighting the speed attribute as the determining factor in outfield performance.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is for Lewis, because his instincts suck. Scott Podsednik is/was the same way – fast, but bad first step – but he was still an above average LFer because he could catch up to balls he misjudged.
As I said before, it’s better to have both, a la Carl Crawford, for example. Bonds was a much better defensive OFer in his later years than he should have been considering his knees and speed, because he always got a good jump and read the ball well. There are other examples – Gorman Thomas, inexplicably, in CF for the ‘80s Harvey’s Wallbangers Brewers.
Let me break it down:
1) I agree that reading the ball and good jump is an important part of OF defense
2) I agree that Fred Lewis is bad at #1
3) I think, and many here and UZR agree, that because of his speed, Lewis still gets a lot of balls that other LFers don’t, making Fred an above-average LFer (remember that “average” refers to LFers only, and LFers as a group are not terribly good fielders)
4) Despite #3, Lewis is still frustrating because he should catch balls that he doesn’t, and he generally looks lost in LF
5) BOWKERMANIA should return to LF
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is correct.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 3, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he certainly has the physical talent to play center field – I’m sure a few years ago, it didn’t seem totally out of the question that he would develop the instincts. He hasn’t, of course.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Develop instincts… isn’t that an oxymoron?
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No? I’m pretty sure young players can learn to field better. Some don’t, some do. Manuel made a statement based on potential… it didn’t work out.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most of what you need to know to play the OF is drilled into you by the time your 14 years old. Did Lewis switch positions? I don’t think so. Bottom line – if I see a player take poor first steps, bad routes, and display an iron glove – those are things that I KNOW aren’t going to get better. And you can’t possibly project him to a + defensive position – where first steps and routes are critical. I haven’t read a much from John Manuel, but this one data point leads me to believe that he doesn’t know what he’s looking at.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, this seems really unfair. How many times did you watch Lewis play when Manuel made that statement? I think I remember it being after his 2003 or 2004 season – five or six years ago now. He didn’t say it last year… he said it when Fred was in A-ball. I think it’s not unreasonable to think that a 22-23 year old could improve his defensive skills as he gets older and more experienced.
Like I said, obviously, he didn’t develop into a good fielder, but it’s unfair to say that someone loses all their credibility for a statement they made half a decade ago about a player with the physical tools to play center field.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was 2006, and, sure, it might be unfair to John. I’m not writing the guy off – but it’s a big red flag that John might not be the best judge of “projectable” skills.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh come on, that whole thing is all about the absolute best possible case scenario, not what is most likely (or even somewhat likely) to happen. I would say that putting Fred in CF qualifies.
Heh… Baggs actually projected him as the starting CF for the 2010 team for the 2007 team.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*2007 list
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, saw that from bags too. Major gaffe. You’re saying Baseball America projects players to best case scenarios, rather than expected value? That’s news to me. But even using best case, hard to see Fred Lewis EVER being projected to CF. Anyone have Manuel’s e-mail handy? I’d love to find out what he thought he saw, and what criteria he uses to evaluate talent.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, considering they think Ehire Adrianza is our future SS, I’d say that’s pretty best case scenario right there
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like I’m not only one to think BA is a bit off.
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2005/2/16/23348/4391
Totally forgot about Marcus Sanders – Manuel LOVED him.
by khenderson on Jul 3, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanders looked promising until his shoulder injuries got worse. As someone who has a shoulder problem, I could see how it could have ruined his career. Or just ask Eddy Martinez Esteve or Alex Smith or Tim Couch.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 3, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a response to KH
I don’t know where to put this comment, so this seems like a good a place as any.
FWIW
From what I remember from Lewis’ background, he was two sport athlete “concentrating on football”. Played center until he slumped with the bat in 2005. Move to Left was to try to break him out of his slump. 2006-2007 he split time in CF and LF.
Can’t find the article, but on a side note I remember Felipe counseling Fred to be “more aggressive” at the plate the year he was slumping….
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
by merkin on Jul 3, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, BA does use best case scenarios. That took me awhile to figure out when I first subscribed, but it’s pretty apparent.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Jul 3, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really worth a fanshot or fanpost or hell maybe not even a post
but here it is anyway….
LA Times Op Ed piece/ fan poll
“I’ve never asked Dodger fans for a favor before, but I have one request now: When that first home game comes on July 16, for one night, one at-bat or at least one swing, boo Manny. I’m not asking you to burn your coveted Man-wig, hide the name on the back of your No. 99 T-shirt under duct tape or torture yourself by watching Angels games. All I ask is that if you attend Manny’s first home game, you boo. Once, at least.”
Boo Manny?
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
by merkin on Jul 3, 2009 1:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
would we boo Barry Bonds? Not likely.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant to also add that they might have booed if the Dodgers had collapsed while he was gone, but they still have a comfortable lead, so why would they be angry?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should clarify
The words in quotes are from the op ed piece, not me
Daily Gameball and Joker at GIANTSBOARD.COM
GB and JK also at Giantsboard Blog
Say Hey Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
by merkin on Jul 3, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
man.
i understand the argument that fred lewis could have potentially been a center fielder given his speed and body type. i’m sure scouts no longer believe he can play center field so it seems to be a moot point in my book. fred lewis is obviously struggling out there, but it’s not crazy to think that sometimes guys just never figure out how to get a good first step and a good route to the ball. outfield is so much more difficult than it appears, but with all of his professional experience in the majors and minors he should still be able to catch the ball when it hits his glove. these brick jobs are what’s truly unacceptable. i’ve noticed lewis loves to play the ball off to his side and not go 100% to the spot where he believes the ball is going to go so he can make a more aesthetically pleasing play, but he does not have the skills of a guy like jim edmonds or andruw who are notorious for not hustling all the way in order to make diving plays. i’m sure after he’s DFA’d the angels will pick him up and torii hunter will show him a thing or two about a thing or two. and maybe he’ll even get him a new, more flexible glove.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 3, 2009 5:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I bet that if he’s DFA’d he’ll end up on the Braves.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least
There are any number of teams that would pick him up. Probably the Padres (ugh)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 3, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This thread makes me so sad
I hate it when fans turn on a player, sometimes even when they deserve it. Last year Fred Lewis had the 2nd highest OPS+ of any regular. Pretty much every fielding metric has him right around average. For once the Giants had produced a homegrown starter that everybody seemed to like.
Now after a two month slump, a benching and a variety of outfield adventures, everybody hates him. We’re not even satisfied with him as a bench player – apparently he needs to be off the team to appease Giants fans.
I’m curious if everybody who hates Fred has read the ESPN story about him. See if you still feel like bashing on him even though he’s already been benched.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 3, 2009 11:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely, dude.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 3, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
part of it is because people perceive Fred being the reason why Bowker is not up in the bigs.
by jctGamer on Jul 4, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which could just as much be directed at Torres or Aurilia, but of course ultimately should be sent towards the BRASS!!1
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 4, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't even get me started on aurilia.
i wouldn’t be surprised if he had his dad whacked so he could get some sympathy and be on the ball club for a few more days. how could you dfa a guy whose father just died? this post is fucked up.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 4, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this post is fucked up.
I’m not entirely sure what you’re saying here, but if you’re saying that I’m advocating DFAing Aurilia right after his dad dies, that’s not what I’m trying to say. I’m just pointing out that there are other players on the roster who are having poor seasons and/or have little upside that could also go down for Bowker. If Aurilia was sent down a week before his dad died for Bowker nobody would be complaining. I apologize for my lack of clarity.
Personally, I think Torres or a pitcher should be sent down, but that’s just me
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 4, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was making a joke about Rich killing his dad so he could stay on the roster longer and then realized how fucked up it sounded and called himself out on it.
At least, I hope so.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 4, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah man.
don’t be a fool. fool! no you’re not a fool. i forgive you. it was a simple misunderstanding. but i am positive that i hate you…just kidding. or am i? yes i am. i was kidding about the whole thing. fred lewis is the best outfielder the giants have or ever will have. (parenthesis yo).
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 4, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think using the word “hate” KFred is too strong. I am well aware of the ESPN story and know what a “good guy” he is, but I also have no problem expressing how much I don’t want him starting for this team ever again. Does that mean I HATE the guy? No. I would have no problem buying the dude a beer and listening to him tell awesome baseball stories in a funny drawl, but this is baseball and I spend way too much money on tickets every year to root for a guy that doesn’t look good at all. Just give me someone that hits well in left field, or give me someone that hits pretty well and plays lock down defense. Unfortunately, he doesn’t do either, so I don’t want to see him out there, and I won’t give him special treatment because he is a good guy. We as Giants fans don’t get a lot of chances to see playoff baseball and we actually have that chance this year. Its time to put someone out there that will take care of business and help our team, not hurt them. Whether that is a Winn-Rowand-Nate outfield, or mixing in bowker somehow, or going out and getting someone else to play LF, I am not sure…but I think any of those options give us a better chance to win than sending Freddy out there any more
by m34josh on Jul 4, 2009 5:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but I also have no problem expressing how much I don’t want him starting for this team ever again.
My point wasn’t necessarily to stifle any criticism of Fred. It just seems so extreme. The breaking point for me was reading Bruce Jenkin’s blog yesterday:
(emphasis mine)
but I know this: Lewis’ time is done. He’s not hitting, and he absolutely kills the team with his lack of outfield instincts. There’s a big difference between a good athlete and a ballplayer, and we’re seeing it here.
Whenever a baseball player is slumping, everybody just wants him GONE. When Rowand sucked for the entire 2nd half most Giants fans wanted him gone. Now he’s had the 2nd best offensive year on the team. John Bowker had an awful time in the majors before finally being sent down, and their were probably people who said at the time “I never want to see him in the majors again.” Now he’s our savior.
Why just give up on a guy? Why do baseball fans never seem to believe that slumps end and that a player with a track record for being valuable could become valuable again?
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 4, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because baseball fans ALWAYS overreact to whatever is happening right now. I think every baseball fan can fall victim to this – from the traditionalists to the statheads. I mean, just look at the honest panic there was when Tim started the season off slowly.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 4, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
except i didn’t freak out and right negative posts about tim lincecum’s slow start and aaron rowands’ bad first year. i knew they’d come around (but i can’t speak for other people.)
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 4, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not talking about just you. I wasn’t freaking out after Tim’s bad start either, but there were those who were.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH GOD HIS VELOCITY IS DOWN SELL SELL SELL
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 4, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't hate him
but we’re competing for a playoff spot and he is not helping us win games. nate schierholtz so far (knock on wood) has not only played well off the bench but also had an excellent albeit short run at the plate (on pace to tie or break fred lewis’ 2008 home run total) and in right field. i don’t think anyone hates fred lewis, but he is a liability right now to a team that is walking on a tight rope for a playoff spot. we need his roster spot for someone who has more upside and is more deserving of playing time in the major leagues. it’s time to give a look at bowker and finding some playing time for him by platooning him with ishikawa, winn, and shierholtz ( i really like to use parenthesis). sorry fred.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 4, 2009 12:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s also a bench player right now. It’s questionable whether there would even be a decent amount of ABs available for Bowker if he were to be called up right now… maybe if Winn’s injury tonight keeps him out for awhile, I guess, but I can’t see Bochy sitting him very much. I mean, I really don’t think it’s Fred that’s keeping Bowker from getting his shot so much as it’s Winn, at this point.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 4, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on
he has the advantage of of playing infield and outfield. the second half of the season the giants will need someone that’s gonna bring some energy to the team (if he brings anything at all), but that would also answer a lot of short term questions for the giants (maybe strike a deal or sign someone or wait for waivers). i believe if they get him enough innings starting whenever he can wherever he can he will have enough AB’s to provide a good sample. and if he gets off to a hot start that would be even better (good point jpo. i know. thank you. (is this guy talking to himself?) yes.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 4, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But where is he going to get ABs? It’s not even a logical platoon situation – he, Ishikawa, Bowker and Winn all (mostly in Winn’s case) bat left handed. And those three have all hit relatively well recently, Ishikawa less so than the others, though he had a few hits tonight which will bump his recent stats up.
I’ve said before, in this very thread, that I’m pretty much at the point where I wouldn’t be too put out if Lewis was DFA’d to make room for Bowker, but looking at the makeup of the roster, I’m not sure how he’ll really get enough playing time to make a difference, barring a trade or injury to one of those other three players.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 4, 2009 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if...
they could manage to play aurilia, ishikawa, schierholtz or winn every single game after they call him up i think they can get him in the lineup enough. i think they recognize that winn’s not producing like they need right now and if bowker can get some innings on guys’ days off wherver he can there’s 3 positions he can play. that helps a lot. see how he hits lefties this year. maybe he improved. who knows. i’m ready to give it a chance.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 4, 2009 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus
winn is better than lewis. that is why winn plays so much. lewis is not pushing bochy to want to play him. if bowker comes up and shows that he belongs he’ll challenge winn for playing time. i just fed my dog celery…with peanut butter on it.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 4, 2009 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...are you drunk?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 4, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t mean to be rude, but your posts were getting progressively more ramble-y and bizarre.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn dog eats better than I do
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 4, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably because
i’m rambly (and weird).
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 4, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice catch there in the bottom of the first. oh wait you didn’t catch it. i’m done with you.
I’m feeling the not hate big time.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 4, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
to be fair, I think you can kind of think of this fanpost as a gameday thread comment, since it was posted during a game, for some reason, and those often aren’t rational.
that said, I think to say that “no one hates Fred” is kind of ignoring the kind of vitriol that’s been flung in his direction the past few weeks.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 4, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm done having him on the roster.
i didn’t say i hate him. he needs a fresh start somewhere else.
Not jponry.
by jpo on Jul 4, 2009 12:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Like I said in the gameday thread… it’s just too bad he doesn’t have any options left. If there was one guy I’ve seen that could use a visit to the minors, it’s FLEW. What if we got him some birth control pills and he got 50 games off?
amirite?
by zuma420 on Jul 4, 2009 2:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
anxiety disorder. It works just like options.
by jctGamer on Jul 4, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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