The Giants Needs
by jv52yankees on Jul 15, 2009 8:23 PM PDT
92 comments
go giants
I really dont understand when people say that the giants need to get starting pitching. That's our strength. I would love to go into the playoffs with lincecum,cain,johnson and zito pitching with sanchey in the bullpen and wilson closing. That is a championchip formula. But, the bottom line is we need offense. We need a 2 hitter and a 4 hitter. We need to get 2b Freddy Sanchez from the Pirates and Lf Matt Holliday from the Athletics. I would to go into the playoffs with a lineup of rowand cf, sanchez 2b , sandoval 3b, Holliday Lf , Molina C, Winn Rf, Renteria SS, Ishakawa/Aurilia 1b, pitcher. I think we could beat any team in the national league.
I think for first baseman we could even get nick johnson for a prospect or two. I think we have something special and should go for it.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
0 recs |
92 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
No Holliday
Granted, he may be worth less now than he was at the beginning of the season, but only 8 HRs really scares me. I do not think he would be the difference maker everyone thinks he might be. I don’t have a problem with the Freddy Sanchez idea as long as it does not cost us too much.
Now, if the FO decides to get a 1B I’d rather they go after LaRoche than Nick Johnson. LaRoche is a career .907 OPS hitter in the second half, which would be great for a second half surge towards the playoffs.
But, I wouldn’t trade for LaRoche until Ti is given a little more time. As much as I like TI, the rational person within me knows he will probably not be an average hitting 1B any time soon. But, I at least want to give him a couple more weeks to change my mind.
Travis Ishikawa wOBA by month:
March/April- 0.246
May- 0.348
June- 0.366
July (through 7/12)- 0.366
Now, if he can average a .350 wOBA over 550 PA(about 80% of a season), while maintaining his incredible defense(23.8 UZR/15), he’ll be a 3.8 WAR player.
For reference, Joey Votto and Carlos Pena were tied for the 5th most valuable 1B in the league last year with 3.8 WAR. Justin Morneau had a 3.5 WAR. Adrian Gonzalez had a 3.4 WAR.
Yeah, i’m coming round a bit on Ishikawa and whilst i’d still be interested in upgrading 1B i’m ok with giving Ishikawa a chance.
Defensively he’s good, but i very much doubt he’s that good so i’d expect some regression in his defence numbers. However even if he’s “only” +10 run 1B that’ll add a lot of value to his game.
Offensively he’s quietly performed reasonably after a bad first month & whilst he’s never going to be very good offensively for a 1B if he can put up a .350 wOBA with above average defence then he’ll be a useful player. The question is whether he can consistently put up that kind of production, but it’s not an unrealistic number to expect from him.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
and if a frog had wings
it’s wouldn’t bump it’s ass a-hoppin’.
monthly spits are worthless, and a 3-month “progression” is just as worthless. It’s much more realistic to assume his Zips projection of about .325 wOBA,. which is, incidentally, roughly what he has done so far this year, including March/April.
Good hitters have bad months too. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt and project him to hit .330-.335 the rest of the way, I’ll give you that. But I really doubt he puts up a .350 the whole way out.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
In fairness, he did say “if” he can average a .350 wOBA
I’d normally agree that monthly splits might be worthless, but I think it’s a good sign for a young player who’s just starting out as an everyday position player in the bigs. Even if you don’t believe that, you’d have to agree it’s better than him trending down. Ishi had a bad first month and has been pretty ok since.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
but
this is like saying “IF he is a good player we don’t need to replace him”. The IF is the whole thing of it.
I don’t think 3 months of slightly increasing monthly wOBAs are a sign of anything, good or bad. Graph some veteran major leaguer monthly wOBAs, they will be all over the place. .366 isn’t even a good month if your true talent is .325. A good month would be like .450.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I’m partial to bullpen crunch, myself.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 15, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Just as long as we don’t sign any cheatos in the process.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 15, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
That stopped me in my tracks as well
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 15, 2009 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Squire_Boone I just do not like molina as our 4 hitter. I just think he would be the best available as a cleanup. I like the idea of laroche. we could package 4 prospects for sanchez and laroche.
4 prospects? 4 all that is holy, no!
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
nobody likes Molina as our 4 hitter. no one thinks that is gonna win the championship or produce enough offense.
Yes, if we got Laroche, Sanchez and Holliday without giving up very much than we’d be a serious contender, but we’re not gonna get them for free. But as with all of these trade scenarios, it depends on what we’d have to give up. Right now, top prospects are more valuable than ever and we don’t want to just give them up for a rental like Holliday, which is what he’s gonna cost. Also, the Pirates won’t just give Sanchez and Laroche away either.
And I really don’t hear many people complain that the Giants need to get more pitching. It’s all “need a big bat” all the time.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 15, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't like Molina as our 4 hitter, either
But, I don’t think Holliday would be worth what we’d have to give up. You could just as easily trade for LaRoche and slide him into the clean-up spot. I am not advocating trading for LaRoche, but I would prefer acquiring him to Holliday.
by Squire_Boone on Jul 15, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
No on LaRoche and Holliday
1. LaRoche and Holliday are FAs at the end of this season, so Sabean won’t want them (and I agree with Sabes on this) unless their being given away for a bag of balls and someone along the lines of Fred Lewis. The A’s would never go for that, the Pirate FO is so bad that they might consider it.
2. I’d like us to swing a trade for F. Sanchez, but the package we send would have to be about 75% (or less) of what the Pirates received from the Braves for McLouth (a AAAA SP and 2 < AA prospects – 1 a B level and the other a C level). Sanchez is older, more expensive, and under contract for a much shorter time frame (only through the end of 2010) than McLouth.
3. As an alternative to F. Sanchez, I also like the idea of going after Scott Rolen. We could offer a package of Merkin Valdez and 2 fringey pitching prospects, or a B- level pitching prospect and 2 fringey prospects. Slide Pablito over to 1B, and hit Rolen 4th. Rolen essentially replaces Ishi in the lineup, where his D at 3b is comparable to Ishi’s at 1B, and his bat is a huge upgrade over Ishi’s. Not to mention that Rolen mashes LH pitching – one of our big weaknesses. Rolen is owed about $16M between now and the end of his contract (at the end of 2010) and F. Sanchez is owed about $11M over the same time frame, so Sanchez has an edge in that category. But, I believe that the bigger $$$ owed to Rolen would be an incentive for the Jays to trade him to us for a lesser package of players than it would take to get Sanchez. With Rolen at 3B we would keep Uribe at 2B, have Ishi be the backup 1B, and release Aurilia.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Counter-point
Is essentially replacing Ishi’s bat with Rolen’s a better upgrade than replacing Uribe’s with Sanchez’?
I think not, especially when you look at additional upgrade you’d get by having Uribe available to back up 2B, SS and 3B.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
also
makes reason # 5,987,098,987,678 to get rid of Richie
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jul 16, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, getting a 2b is preferable
I agree with you and everybody that wants to go after a 2B (namely in the person of F. Sanchez, but Uggla intrigues me also) as the easiest and quickest path to upgrade our offense. My point with Rolen was as a backup in case a 2B deal doesn’t work out. Let’s not forget that the Twins and another team that I can’t think of right now have been rumored to be enamored of Sanchez for the last month or so. As for the backup IF, I would propose Frandsen for that role (in the case where we get a 3B and Uribe stays at 2B).
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
thank you
let’s stay pat and see what we can do for the rest of the season. this team may or may not get to the playoffs, but even if they don’t this season won’t be a failure. we need to keep all our prospects that have upside, but if we could get freddy sanchez for cheap (lewis, 2 average prospects?) that would be ok. just don’t blow up our farm system for holiday
Really, all we need is a No. 3 hitter. Freddy Sanchez could be that guy. It allows us to move Molina down, and Sandoval into cleanup. Or a better leadoff man. Maybe one who plays 2nd, idk who’s out there that could do that. That allows Rowand to slide down.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
Oh, hello.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 15, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Hola
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
como estas?
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jul 16, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe it's late, but this made me giggle.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jul 15, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Me too.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
If Aurilia gets more than 20 PA the rest of the way… shudder.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below .500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
Lowering the Quality of Internet Discourse Since 1985™
if he DOESN'T
what possible justification is there for having him on the bloody roster?
I’m glad the Giants are doing well, but I’m still not entirely convinced Sabean/Botchy are now geniuses.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jul 16, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Well
I guess if they’re going to have someone on the roster getting almost 0 PT, it might as well be Aurilia. I’d hate for them to bring someone up and not play him.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
I initially thought you were a NY-A fan trying to propose a trade.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 15, 2009 9:49 PM PDT reply actions
shhhhh, or the secret will get out….
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jul 16, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Hes just changing wagons
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 16, 2009 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know who’s saying we need pitching. Driving up to the game last Sunday I heard whoever was on KNBR talking about acquiring Halladay for reasons that were never explained. The Giants are leading the majors in ERA, and Timmeh is leading in several categories and in the top 5 in just about everything. We’ve got a World Series-caliber pitching staff, we just need the bat.
Nick Johnson is not the way to go. First base is not what we want; there’s no reason to upgrade there unless we can get an above-average player, and that’s going to cost more than we want to give up. TI is playing great defense (which is a big emphasis on this team) and is starting to find his power. Get Freddy Sanchez from the Pirates, move Uribe back into the utility position, and we have more than a good shot at making the playoffs. Once we’re in, the staff should carry us and we can seriously contend for the championship.
I say we need pitching.
At least enough so as to not trade what we already have. The schedule tell the 2nd week of Sept is insane and there really will be no rest. I am not saying the team needs to go get more arms but I doubt is can afford to move any near MLB arms at this point.
The Giants only get 2 days off in that period and go coast to coast 4-5 Times. To put that in perspective east coast team only make the full time zone swing 2-3 times a year ( then usually snivel about how tired they are). Since the fan posts author also seems to like the Yanks as well (jv52yankees) let us look at them. They come out west 3 times for entire season. One trip is well after the Sept and call up the minor league post season is mostly over. Sometimes you just have to chose the horse for the course that has to be run.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Where did that come from?
You’re the first person that I’ve seen mention the name of Bedard on this site in the past 3 months (and I’ve only been on here for 3 months).
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
They also shot JFK, shot down Amelia Earhart, and forced Kirk GIbson’s off balance fly over the wall; in short, they are the Illuminati.
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jul 16, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Who controls the British Crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do. We do.
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do. We do.
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do. We do.
Who robs cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do. We do.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below .500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
Lowering the Quality of Internet Discourse Since 1985™
by S.F. Giangst on Jul 16, 2009 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Ask not for whom the bell tolls...
It tolls for thee.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Remove the stone of shame...
attach the stone of Aurilia!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jul 16, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
/ golf clap
Well played sir. Well played indeed.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
I haven’t heard anyone seriously suggest that the Giants go after Halladay and have never heard of Bedard as a potential target, this year, anyway.
However, whenever a big name player, be it a pitcher or position guy, become “available” there’s always at least a little chorus of “AVAILABLE PLAYER? GET HIM GINATS BRAZZ!!” and/or other speculations as to whether it’d be worth it to go after that guy, especially on the radio or sfgiants or sfgate. We saw that this offseason re CC and Manny and Texy. But it has to work out for both sides and these deals rarely match up.
now, could the Giants swing a trade for those pitchers? Absolutely. We have the juice in our system to get one, but I don’t think it would make sense, and as I mentioned, I haven’t heard anyone suggest seriously that we need to empty the farm for one of those guys when we already have a great staff. Especially around here. So I guess I agree that the Giants don’t really need to address their pitching situation, or at least it isn’t a need or priority.
We also have the juice to get about any big name player available and the ones you mentioned. It just wouldn’t be worth depleting our system for it.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 15, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Pass
I’d love to have him, but there’s no way we get him without sending two of Bumgarner, Villanola, Posey, and Alderson, and upgrading a god-awful 2B is far better than upgrading a mediocre 1B.
Hear ! Hear!!
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 16, 2009 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I was just thinking about what it could take. He certainly would be appealing and he’s young and affordable. I think he’d be great on this Giants team. But, he probably cost more in a trade than most would be comfortable with. But he isn’t a rental and is a prove guy who’s only in his age 27 season. We’d almost certainly have to give up Mad Bum, though.
As a division rival, however, the Padres would require a surcharge. The Padres did say he was not going to be moved, which is smart for them, and other teams could offer a better package of prospects (Like Boston, who seem to be the perfect match), but the Padres seem intent on keeping their last remaining healthy superstar.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 15, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
The fact that you have Yankees in your name worries me a little bit
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
Maybe he is just showing his union pride
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jul 15, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
or he's a carpetbagger
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jul 16, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
sorry i am a yankees fan its just i live in oakland and i see the giants play alot. i’ve developed somewhat of a love for them and it helps that if the season ended today they would be in the playoffs.
Please use the “+ reply button”. It makes the conversation so much easier to follow.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
front runner
“and it helps that if the season ended today they would be in the playoffs.” So if they were ten games under .500 you wouldn’t like them?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
A lot of “fans” these days
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 16, 2009 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions
aubrey huff is out there to be had, why not by us?
whatever happened to uggla? florida may be out of it in a week after 4 gms with philly
surely these are better, maybe cheaper options than nick johnson, laroche, sanchez, holliday, etc
even for Andres Torres.
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jul 16, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Huff has been considerably worse than Ishikawa this year and in 4 of the last 5 years. He had a good year last season but he isn’t very good & is unlikely to be better than what we’ve got.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Plus he’s terrible with the glove. Also, there’s no indication that Sanchez (or any Pirate) is going to be expensive. The Pirates have not be getting great packages in trades recently.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Huff? might as well wait for the wavier wire in my opinoin.
Uggla? I doubt the Fish are out of it. No one has taken that division by the scruff of the neck yet and doubt it is happenning in the next 6 weeks. On top of it the Fish were asking for prices for like Uggla was either younger, better at deffense or had already sucessfully changed postions. But then that is The Fish for you.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
I want Utley
AND I WANTED HIM YESTERDAY!
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jul 16, 2009 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions
What the giants need?
Their hitters to learn to work a fucking count. It doesn’t mean taking every pitch, it means fighting off pitches that are too close to take. Like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqMKnR9qdHU
One of the most epic at bats I have ever seen.
YES
the Giants need their hitters to be Ichiro
by thethrillisgone on Jul 16, 2009 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions
GET IT DOMNE!!! GINATS BRASZSS!!
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 16, 2009 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions
man
I would have loved to watch Ichi in RF the last couple years.
Ichi to Ishi! They could have added a line to that Danny Kaye blurb on the promenade.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jul 16, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions
fixed
I think we could can beat any team in the national league.
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jul 15, 2009 11:55 PM PDT reply actions
Please, for the love of all that is holy...
do not call him “Sanchey”. It’s not okay when Bochy does it, and it’s not okay when anyone else does it.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
Screw my comment above
I just read about the Halladay/Rios rumor and want want want
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
that small, still, greedy voice in my head says if it can be done without giving up Bumgarner and Posey, make the deal. Sends gobs of cash, and the Blue Jay’s pick of left handed hitting corner OF’ers…hell, take two. Rios can play RF, and Halladay will complete a rotation that songs will be sung about for 1000 years.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on McCovey Chronicles
Related FanShots on McCovey Chronicles
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- We're Going Streaking! Delmon Young is finally blossoming
- Edwin Jackson is headed to Chicago, but will he stay there?
- Is Bryce Harper using Facebook for contract leverage?
- Say what? Michael Saunders chases homer, creates bleacher chaos
- Twins fans are the opposite of psyched for this Matt Capps trade
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
