Dan Haren
by KingofDucks1987 on Jul 13, 2009 6:29 PM PDT
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Who would you trade for Haren? Would you trade for Haren? What about Bumgarner, Alderson, and Sanchez for Haren? Can you imagine that staff? Do we really need a power bat? We are winning without one now and I'd prefer to stick with the camaraderie we currently have and not mess it up with some prima-donna coming in. Would the Dbacks trade Haren? What say you?
75 109 75 109 etc etc etc
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Well yes, I'd trade all that.
He’s under contract through 2013. We’d be extremely lucky if any of those three turned out as good as Haren.
The D-back wouldn’t do it, however. They’d certainly ask for Posey as well.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Bumgarner, Alderson, and Sanchez?
Really? That’s an enormous haul. Yes, Haren is a great pitcher, but the potential alone of those three would give me pause.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 13, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
It wouldn't give me pause, no.
I don’t think Bumgarner’s likely upside is equal to Haren’s current level, or even very close. Alderson’s upside is limited by his stuff, and I’m absolutely not sold on Sanchez putting it together as a starter for anything approaching a season. They might equal or even exceed Haren in combination, eventually, but Haren’s got it now, which would allow the GIants to maximize the current window with Lincecum and Cain.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I’m not sure how many scouts would agree with your assessment of Bumgarner’s upside (in fact, there was a note in Shea’s column today of Bumgarner’s MLB scouting report which ended ML Rot).
Haren’s a great pitcher and very very affordable — but he’s only signed for three more seasons. Giving away 16 cost controlled seasons of 3 different pitchers would certainly give me pause — that’s not to say I wouldn’t do it under any circumstances, but i’d certainly have to think long and hard about it.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Bumgardner, Alderson and Sanchez is the starting point in trade discussions for Haren. Haren one of the top pitchers in MLB, under control for 4 more years, and 3 of those years he’s a steal compared to what he’s being paid. This is a no brainer for the Giants, which is why the Diamondbacks would still ask for more.
by Missing Barry on Jul 14, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think scouts are overrating Bumgarner or anything, though the persistent rumors of limited repertoire and his declining K rate give me some pause. It’s mostly that Haren is really, really, really good. Bumgarner mught be as good as Haren three seasons from now (I kind of doubt it), but I think the Giants are better off stacking the deck for Lincecum’s and Cain’s pre-FA years.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
yeah, and the Blue Jays would never trade Roy Halladay. The Dbacks have no money and will be paying players like Luis Gonzalez, Steve Finley, etc. into the next century. They might find themselves in a financial situation where they would trade Dan Haren. That being said, they’re certainly not looking to trade him now, and the Giants will not be calling them and offering them a package like this. I guess you’re not the only one bored by four days of no Giants’ baseball. “The Shot Heard Round the World” about Bobby Thomson’s 1951 HR is on HBO tonight. Watch it.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Per RotoWorld:
According to FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal, the Diamondbacks have no intention of trading right-hander Dan Haren.
“I almost can’t conceive of a package that would motivate us to move him,” a Diamondbacks official told Rosenthal. The club, despite a 30-46 record, would have to be completely overwhelmed by a package of top prospects to even consider it. Haren, 28, is 6-5 with a 2.28 ERA and 0.81 WHIP this season. He’s also relatively cheap, owed just $7.5 million this season, $8.25 million next season and $12.75 million in both ’11 and ’12.
He’s super affordable for how good he is, even for a team that might find themselves in a financial situation. And while the Blue Jays find themselves in a division with the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays, the Diamondbacks find themselves in a division in which it seems each year has a different team making a bid for the top spot. And the Blue Jays would only have Halladay for one more season after this, so the situation’s here are a bit different.
wow, thanks for reporting that Ken Rosensmall!
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 13, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
You're right about Haren
The Dbacks wouldn’t trade him now because
1. His contract is super-affordable for his production level through 2012.
2. The Dbacks feel that they are like the 2007 Rays – a young, talented, and athletic team that is only about a year away from being real contenders. They want Major League-ready players to help them fill in the gaps around their existing core of young future stars. They would not accept a package where only Sanchez is ready to start from day 1.
3. They have a lot of salary coming off the books at the end of this year:
Doug Davis - $8.75M
Jon Garland - $6.25M (has a mutual decline option for 2010 at $10M – can be bought for $2.5M or $1M.
Chad Tracy, Scott Schoenweiss, Felipe Lopez, & Conor Jackson - $13M combined. With all that money available, I believe they’ll go after some veteran established FAs (especially pitchers) this offseason.
4. In addition, they still owe Eric Byrnes about $16M between now and the end of the 2010 season, when his contract will expire (he’s their Aaron Rowand – although it was only a 3 year deal).
5. Their main dilemma isn’t Haren, it’s Brandon Webb. If they’re going to trade a superstar pitcher it will be him. But they can’t get that ball rolling until he recovers and starts to pitch again. He is signed through the end of 2010 for $8.5M. They need to see how he pitches in ST next year and then decide if he will be healthy enough to be worth trying to re-sign him before he becomes a FA at the end of the year. If healthy, you have to believe that he’ll be worth upwards of $20M per year. Can they afford that?
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
That’s a hell of a package but superstar pitchers on long, pretty affordable contracts aren’t the kind of thing even a rebuilding team should be thinking about trading away. I wouldn’t even consider it a possibility about it unless I started hearing substantial rumors or something.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
I would love to have Haren though I would also like to be in the middle of a Roselyn Sanchez / Penelope Cruz sandwich. But we all know that wo… you know the story
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jul 13, 2009 8:47 PM PDT reply actions
I’m all in favor of prima-donnas who can hit BTW.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Wouldn’t it be great if we could thaw out the head of Ted Williams and reattach it to his body. Then we could reanimate him, replace his eyes, arms and legs with bionic parts and put him in LF!
Sound far-fetched? Well, it has more of a chance to happen then the Diamondbacks trading Haren.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 14, 2009 8:37 AM PDT reply actions
Would support: reattaching Ted's head to a young hitter's body, and leave his eyes alone. Everything else is fine.
And the great thing about this— you would control him forever because the team would actually OWN him.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jul 14, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Ted Williams android
No doubt the MLBPA would sue, and androids would be granted free agency after 3 years of ML service time. Despite advancements in technology, you just can’t win.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Ok
Remember that package that the D-Backs gave up to GET Haren? You know, the one that currently represents like half of the A’s farm system (and would have been more if two of the players hadn’t been deployed to trade for Matt Holliday)?
Since that trade, he has spent two seasons being the second-best pitcher in the National League. I almost can’t even fathom what kind of package it would take to trade for Haren at this point. There’s probably only a couple of teams that could even attempt it, and they’d be essentially stripping their systems of every high-upside prospect to land him. The Giants are not among those teams.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Lincecum v. Haren
The d-backs would trade a healthy Brandon Webb before they would trade Haren.
On a side note, the radio hosts in AZ are all upset that Lincecum was chosen to start the All-star game over Haren—despite Keith Law saying on their show two days ago that if there were a 1st half cy young it would be Lincecum, and Eric Karros saying that the started should be “no question” Lincecum.
Their defense was Haren’s ERA and WHIP.
Any Haren defenders on here? Or do we all agree it should be Lincecum?
On a Giants site, I think you’ll have a hard time finding any Haren supporters. Of course I support Lincecum, but honestly, I don’t think anyone can be overly upset in either situation. They’ve had very comparable seasons.
Breaking down the stats, the biggest point in Lincecum’s favor is FIP. 2.01 to 2.70. Pretty big difference. The argument for Haren, though, is the FIP difference is almost entirely based on HR’s, a lot of which can probably be explained by ballparks. This argument is true, as their xFIP’s are 2.78 and 2.92, respectively. Still in Lincecum’s favor, but barely. Lincecum’s impressive 4.38 K/BB is also blown away by Haren’s 8.06 K/BB. Yes, you read that right, 8.06 K’s per BB for Haren. Ridiculous.
Overall they’ve both been amazing. I’m happy Timmy got the recognition. Don’t discount how good/valuable Haren is, though. Bumgarner, Alderson, and Sanchez is a lot to give up, but not enough for Haren. He’s that good.
by Missing Barry on Jul 14, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Haren is damn good but...
in AS games, fans want to see why Timmy won last year’s CY award so Charlie “Read the Damn” Manuel tabbed Lincecum. That is also why a freakin’ flyin’ Hawaiian with a mediocre season was voted in ahead of a much deserved rare animal that’s near extinction.
However, Haren will be right there in this year’s Cy Young award voting with Timmy, Johan, maybe Cain and Josh Johnson of the Fish. I hope the Giants can help Timmy’s back2back CY cause by pummeling Haren the next times they see him!
Mo'ped Money, Mo'ped Problems
by Scooter Ellis on Jul 14, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t have been upset if they picked Haren to start. He’s been as dominant as Timmeh this year, and he’s been even more consistent than him. Especially when you consider that Haren pitches most often in the hitter’s paradise down in Arizona. Being the starter is not the big thing for me, the # of innings pitched is more important. Timmeh should get to pitch until his spot comes up and they pinch-hit for him (probably in the bottom of the 3rd).
I believe that they picked The Freak to start because of 2 reasons:
1. He’s a much more high-profile, modern face-of-the-game than Haren (don’t doubt that Selig and his advisors were whispering in Manuel’s ear for this ratings coup)
2. Haren pitched the day after Timmeh, so Timmeh is fresher.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
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