The All-Time Hall of Fame Eligible but Not In the Hall Giants
Baseball fans love lists, especially all-time-best lists. One of my absolute favorites of the form is the all-time-best team you can put together from your franchise's players. The Giants' list is just about the best, though they might finish a game or two behind the Yankees. (It's alarming how little pitching the Cardinals have to go with their amazing position players.)
Today, as I was celebrating unemployment by walking to Trader Joe's for some more Simpler Times Lager ($2.99 a six pack, but they were sold out), I wondered, "What would be the best team of Giants who are eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in it?" Sort of, "How awesome is our second tier compared to others' second tiers?" I'm limiting this to guys who spent a substantial amount of time on the Giants, but your definition of substantial might be different than mine.
- C - Tom Haller
- 1B - Will Clark
- 2B - Robby Thompson
- 3B - Darrell Evans
- SS - Alvin Dark
- LF - George Burns
- CF - George Van Haltren
- RF - Bobby Bonds
- SP - Rick Reuschel
- SP - Sal Maglie
- SP - Johnny Antonelli
- SP - Red Ames
- RP - Robb Nen
I wasn't sure how to go about this, so I pulled up the Baseball Reference pages on the 1923, 1937, 1954, 1962, and 1978 Giants, and used that as well as my memory for clues. I also hit the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract for ideas and rankings. (I think it should be a federal law that James rewrites this every ten years. Who's with me?) This list is heavy on modern Giants in part because of my own experience, and in part because the veteran's committee has already enshrined every remotely qualified New York Giant. Seriously, go make a list of the worst players in the Hall of Fame - it will be Catfish Hunter, Bruce Sutter, and eight New York Giants.
Position-by-position justification:
Catcher: Haller was the first name to jump into my mind, and I never found anybody better. Kennedy? Brenly? Santiago?
First base: Duh.
Second base: I really wanted to put Bill Madlock at second but he just didn't play enough games there. Second base is not a loaded position for the Giants - Frisch, Kent, Thompson, and a season of Hornsby.
Third base: Yes, Darrell Evans over Matt Williams. Look, I freaking LOVED Matt Williams when he was a Giant. As a kid, I had a binder full of Will Clark and Matt Williams baseball cards. They are absolutely my two favorite baseball players from my childhood. That said, Evans played 2687 games with a 119 OPS+, and Williams played 1866 games witha 112 OPS+. Evans was more OBP-heavy, so the offensive gap is actually bigger than that. Both were plus defenders in their primes. I think Evans should be in the Hall of Fame.
Shortstop: I was thinking Bill Dahlen here, but his best days were behind him when he was a Giant, so it's not really fair.
Left field: Yay! An old baseball player! I was actually stunned when I found out that he's not in the Hall. Runners up were Gary Matthews and Kevin Mitchell. I didn't realize Monte Irvin was already in the Hall, otherwise that would have been my choice.
Center field: This one gave me fits. Of course, there was a pretty good center fielder on the Giants once, but he's in the Hall, so he doesn't qualify. Maddox and Butler didn't spend enough time with the Giants. Matty Alou wasn't good until after he left. Bobby Murcer and Felipe Alou didn't play center when they were on the Giants. I went with Bill James when choosing Van Haltren. I invite the reader to take a stroll through the non-Mays center fielders the Giants have employed. It's ridiculous. I almost went with Darryl Hamilton.
Right field: He was faster and a better defender than his son. His son was better at the other things, though.
Starting pitchers: They put McGinnity in the Hall? Really? I was going to look ever-so-smart when I chose him! Pitchers make this exercise difficult - there aren't too many good-but-not-great pitchers who have long careers and spend the bulk of their time with one team. I thought Big Daddy's playing time was marginal, but I included him... I wouldn't put Reuschel in the Hall of Fame, but he was a better pitcher than Jack Morris, who seems to get some support. I need help on the pitchers. Which hall-eligible pitchers am I missing?
Relief pitcher: Robb Nen, of course, though I did check on Beck just in case I was forgetting their stats or something.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
5 recs |
32 comments
Comments
(I think it should be a federal law that James rewrites this every ten years. Who’s with me?)
I would endorse this if James used something than Range Factor in his player evaluations and stopped using Runs Created and changed to a BaseRuns-type formula.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 5, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I checked, and this player is not yet eligible...
but as soon as he is, Woody should be on this team.
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
by ThrillisGone22 on Jun 6, 2009 4:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Woody's a tough one for me
He absolutely has the playing time, and of course I think he’s awesome, but how valuable is 9.X years of league-average pitching? Of course it’s valuable, but is it more valuable than, say, Antonelli’s seven years of way above average pitching?
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
by antinous on Jun 7, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically, Will Clark is not eligible since he didn’t get the required 5% and won’t be eligible for the Veterans committee for awhile.
by SFGuy on Jun 6, 2009 7:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I should have said “is or has been eligible?” I meant guys that have been retired 5+ years.
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
by antinous on Jun 7, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I figured it was “people who could be in the Hall of Fame but aren’t.”
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on Jun 7, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
C: Dick Dietz?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen, come back!
by WalrusMan on Jun 6, 2009 8:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No, but you got me
I can’t believe I didn’t consider him. He only played two full years, and one of them was one of the great forgotten catcher years. I’d almost consider the monumental task of seeing where it lies… Neyer did this once with the greatest years by shortstops, and found Aurilia’s 2001 to be #9 all-time, if I recall.
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
by antinous on Jun 7, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a fan from the early 70’s, I am partial to Dick Dietz and Dave Rader.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
by achiappanza on Jun 14, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about putting Matt Williams at shortstop?
by Evan on Jun 6, 2009 8:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you have to find a way to put him on the team. I would still put him at third, stats aside.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
by cheno on Jun 7, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd certainly rather have him than Alvin Dark
…but he didn’t play much short in the majors.
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
by antinous on Jun 7, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chili Davis
How about Chili Davis for CF? Drafted by the Giants, spent the first seven years of his MLB career with them. Career OPS+ of 120. Made two All-Star teams with the Giants. Most people remember him as a big DH but he played over 500 games in CF.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Jun 8, 2009 1:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
As much as I hate to say it...
I think Jeff Kent would be a superior choice to Robby Thompson. Thompson was good, but as Giants fans, he’s one of the guys that I think we romanticize and give too much credit. Chili Davis- good call
Thompson: 2x All-Star, 1x Gold Glove, career .257 avg; world series sweep victim
Kent: (w/giants- 3x all-star, 1x MVP) career .290 avg; world series game seven, shouldn’t have taken out Ortiz in game 6, victim.
- (both wikipedia- take for what its worth)
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
by bonbrillio on Jun 9, 2009 7:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kent likely will be in the Hall. Thompson won’t.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 9, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My list
C – Tom Haller, I guess. A very weak position historically for us.
1B – Will Clark
2B – Jeff Kent (until he joins the Hall)
SS – Chris Speier (another weak position)
3B – Matt Williams (accept no substitute). I scoff at your Darrell Evans.
LF – Kevin Mitchell. What, not a long enough tenure? Gary Matthews? Len Gabrielson?
CF – Brett Butler. Absolutely. No other answer is acceptable for Giants fans.
RF – Bobby Bonds easily.
SP – Rick Reuschel
SP – Billy Swift
SP – Mike McCormick
SP – Jason Schmidt
SP – Freddie Fitzsimmons
RP – Gary Lavelle
RP – Rod Beck
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Jun 9, 2009 8:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If you’re going to put Kent and Schmidt in (the OP said eligible but in in the Hall), than put in Barry Bonds. He’s not making the Hall.
by SFGuy on Jun 9, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more for the Alameda Rifle
I am so with you on Speier.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
by achiappanza on Jun 14, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando Cepeda should be on that list.
/ducks
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jun 9, 2009 1:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for all the comments!
CF – Chili Davis is absolutely the right answer here. I don’t know why I didn’t think of him – I guess it’s because so many of my memories are of him as a DH, I had forgotten that he had been a CF before.
Rod Beck – Still not as good as Robb Nen. But, man, Beck was awesome. I loved the trailer behind the center field fence in Iowa.
Regarding Bonds, Kent, Cepeda, Schmidt, et al… I think I did a bad job of explaining the task. I meant guys who could be eligible for the Hall of Fame now, but aren’t in the Hall. Cepeda is already in and Bonds, Kent, and Schmidt haven’t been retired long enough. (Schmidt hasn’t officially retired, has he?)
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
by antinous on Jun 9, 2009 10:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You mentioned Kent in your explanation
of alternative 2nd basemen to Thompson.
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
by bonbrillio on Jun 9, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I was unclear
In the explanation I mentioned the few really good second basemen who have been Giants – besides Thompson, there are Kent, Frisch, and a little bit of Hornsby. Kent is not yet eligible and Frisch and Hornsby are in, so Thompson is the choice.
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
by antinous on Jun 17, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schmidt is still trying to make a comeback.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 9, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure it's just 5 years since playing a professional ball game.
Not necessarily retired. I wouldn’t be surprised if Henderson was still trying to make a team somewhere.
Status: So pissed that the Giants sold my wall of Ks to Johnsonville Sausages, that I'm boycotting purchasing anything at the park, or patronizing their sponsers.
by GiantBrass on Jun 12, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mentioned som secondbasemen
Including some in the hall already, but a clear oversite, was Joe Morgan.
by bradleybear on Jun 9, 2009 11:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t think it was an oversight… it was just two years at the end of his career. Then again, I did mention Hornsby, who was only a Giant for a single year, but it was a spectacular year in the middle of his prime.
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
by antinous on Jun 17, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the outfield
Who could forget, Willie Kirkland, Leon Wagner, Brett Butler, Jackie Brandt, Jim Ray Hart at third, Matt williams at short, We had Harvey Kuenn for a year or so, Ellis Burke,
don’t forget Rikkert Fannyete. Did we have Del Crandell for one year? , Foster was a giant, Candy Maldonado had his good year, Willie McGee was a giant, Shawon Dunsten, Andres Galarhaga,
by bradleybear on Jun 9, 2009 11:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Some other starting pitchers
John the count Montefusco, Laskey, San Jones, Jack Sanford, John Burkett, (especially if Billy Swift is there) Unless Burkett didn’t retire that long ago. Bob Bolyn, Atlee Hammicker, Jim Barr, Lindy McDaniel, Just to name a few.
by bradleybear on Jun 9, 2009 11:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kruk
What about Mike Krukow in the starting rotation?
by APGiantsFan on Jun 11, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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