A list of the best game scores in San Francisco history
If you don't know what a game score is, here's a primer. It's a fun tool. For some reason, I thought Lincecum's game last night would have been one of the top five since the Giants moved to San Francisco. Nope. There are some pretty sweet performances mixed in there.
Lincecum's game score of 91 ties the career high of Shawn Estes, who did it twice in 1997. I'll just ignore any implications there....
4 months ago
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Dammit offense—why couldn’t you not score until the 14th inning?
by Duelling Brandos on Jun 30, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Candlestick Park, Attendance: 7,529
and dammit fans, why couldn’t you show up to the game!
by FPTV on Jun 30, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Marichal was pretty good.
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by Natto on Jun 30, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Also Jason Schmidt before his arm was shredded.
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by Natto on Jun 30, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gaylord Perry was okay, too.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
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by cornball on Jun 30, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot how good Ed Halicki was for a couple of years.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jul 1, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn’t Game Score (which is a fun tool) be even better if it gave some point credit for # of pitches per inning (the fewer PPI, the better)? Then last night’s 9 inning, 95-pitch perforrmance could have been ranked higher.
That said, Timmy’s in some great company. Schmidt’s CG shutout in Chicago (OMG 144 PITCHES!) remains the modern-day gold standard. That was a brilliant performance. And I wonder how many pitches Gaylord Perry and Juan Marichal had to throw during those 16-inning wars? Ralph Barbieri probably approved.
"He is Tim Lincecum...the Most Interesting Pitcher in the World."
by Kitspool on Jun 30, 2009 2:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
IIRC the one hit was a lame infield one that could have been called an error.
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by Natto on Jun 30, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you remember correctly.
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by Azmanz on Jun 30, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid Randy Johnson throwing a perfect game in Atlanta that same day. Except for Giants fans, nobody even noticed Schmidt’s gem.
I like cats. Wings is the greatest show of all time.
Tyler Graham is my favorite San Jose Giant because he has smart balls.
by Norm Median on Jun 30, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, how come strikeouts are rewarded instead of efficiency? That seems like a flaw to me
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by Useful_Idiot on Jun 30, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because 99.9% of pitchers need to strike batters out in order to not give up hits. And because the pitcher gets all the credit for a strikeout, while the defense is a big part of outs on balls in play.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 30, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The idea that strikeouts lead to higher pitch-counts is a fallacy. The guaranteed out of a K, in the long run, is more efficient than having balls put into play and creating the possibility of hits.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jun 30, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying Ks should explicitly count against the game score, or that balls in play should improve it. But maybe they could look at the number of pitches thrown once the game is all said and done.
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by Useful_Idiot on Jun 30, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see the point. The number of pitches a pitcher throws in a game doesn’t really affect the team.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 1, 2009 5:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No need to reward either, unless it is positively proven that a high pitch count in one game leads to a poorer performance in the next game.
The linear weights values of strikeouts and ordinary outs are essentially the same. And while much is made of the so-called “Three True Outcomes”, none of them are particularly true. A home run in one park can be just a loud out elsewhere, and walks and strikeouts are largely at the discretion of the home plate umpire. If the umpire decides to widen the strike zone because one starter is dealing and seems to have good command (or because his feet hurt and he wants to go home) using preferential treatment of the strikeout in a weighting system makes little sense.
Game Score has not much basis in reality. It’s shiny mostly because it always generates a positive even number, whereas a linear weights system usually won’t. Taking as an example eXtrapolated Runs (XR), the linear weight of a strikeout is -.098 runs, so a perfect game of 27 strikeouts would be worth -2.646 runs. Freaking impressive if you’re stats-aware, but invites the unclued masses to ask “how can a negative number be good?” at which point you should throw a chair…
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below .500
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by S.F. Giangst on Jun 30, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“The linear weights values of strikeouts and ordinary outs are essentially the same.”
But isn’t the point of rewarding a strikeout because if the pitcher doesn’t strike a hitter out, ~30% of the time the ball is going to end up as a hit (and therefore not an out)? Of course looking back at history, getting 27 k’s in a row or 27 outs on balls in play in a row lead to the same result, but the K’s get rewarded more because the pitcher contributed more to those outs…
Anyways, I haven’t really looked into the methodology of Game Score, so I’m not really trying to defend it or deny there’s a better method out there – I just see the argument for rewarding strikeouts. I also think this was the best post on this site in a while, looking back on all those great performances (ones I remember, ones I don’t, and ones I wasn’t even alive for) is pretty awesome.
by Missing Barry on Jun 30, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, linear weighs doesn’t weight a ball in play, it weights a ball in play for an out or a ball in play for a hit. It doesn’t weight a pitch thrown or pitch sequence, it does weight a strikeout or a walk.
And the weighting has nothing to do with rewarding the pitcher as an individual. The different weights exist because a strikeout provides less likelihood of baserunner advancing and subsequently future runs than does a fielding out.
One marked weakness of Game Score is that it does try too hard to take the pitcher out of team context whereas linear weights generally doesn’t because it generally can’t.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below .500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
Lowering the Quality of Internet Discourse Since 1985™
by S.F. Giangst on Jul 1, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schmidt's one-hitter
Assuming you used “modern day” to exclude games from the 1960’s (as opposed to the more conventional meaning “post-1900,” ) then Schmidt’s is the top.
But another grouping I like is that he’s the top for all 9-inning games.
And come on, lots of us remember Juan and Gaylord!
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
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by achiappanza on Jun 30, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I recall correctly, I remember reading somewhere that Marichal’s 16-inning game required him to throw something like 227 or 228 pitches. Wasn’t that a duel with Warren Spahn, where both starters went the distance?
Also, wasn’t Marichal’s 1-hit shutout from 1960 his ML debut? I think there is a lot of fuzzy-brained boomerism at work with the “times ain’t like they used to be” baseball meme, and that today’s game is pretty gall-durned exciting - but boy, wouldn’t it have been nice to watch those Giants teams of the early and mid-60s? (Unless, of course, you did.)
by Rick Parker (Lewis) Can't Lose on Jun 30, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Marichal’s 1 hit shutout in 1960 against Philly was his ML Debut.
by Hobbes2d on Jun 30, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tim Lincecum is pretty good. Y/N?
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by WalrusMan on Jun 30, 2009 2:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s no Shawn Estes. That’s all I’m saying.
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by ResDog on Jun 30, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like cats. Wings is the greatest show of all time.
Tyler Graham is my favorite San Jose Giant because he has smart balls.
by Norm Median on Jun 30, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trevor Wilson FTW!
Neal before Zod!
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by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 30, 2009 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
/frightening visage
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
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by zenbitz on Jun 30, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure I get this trade proposal…Trevor Wilson for Trevor Wilson?
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by WalrusMan on Jun 30, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was the first inter-dimensional trade.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 30, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he would be a PTBNL and then traded back for himself.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 30, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That has actually happened
In fact, it’s happened at least three times — Harry Chiti in the 50s, Rob Ducey about ten years ago, and John McDonald just a few years back. (There may be other instances, too.) Bizarre.
by Rick Parker (Lewis) Can't Lose on Jun 30, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason I really dislike Game Score. I know it’s just supposed to be fun, but it could have been done much better.
Fun fact: Tim Lincecum is averaging 7.1 innings per start.
Completely ridiculous fact: in 1968, Juan Marichal averaged 8.6 innings per start. 8.6!
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 30, 2009 3:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He wasn’t made of porcelain!
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by Natto on Jun 30, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
8.6!
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 30, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, the year after that he had his last great season (at age 31), and he was pretty much a shadow of his former self by the time he was 34.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 30, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but offensive context, quality of opposition, blah blah blah
by Evan on Jun 30, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but on the other hand – 8.6! 30 mutha ucking complete games in 36 starts!
Seriously, though, while it was definitely a different era, that’s still remarkable. His 326 IP lead the league by a 18 innings margin, with only three other pitchers throwing over 277. His 30 CG are still tied for the integration era record.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 30, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He completed over half of his career starts — totally unbelievable.
by Rick Parker (Lewis) Can't Lose on Jun 30, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely ridiculous and horrifying fact, Juan Marichal never finished in the top 5 in Cy Young voting.
Proof of just how ridiculously good pitching was in the 1960s. Koufax, Seaver, Drysdale, Gibson, Jenkins, Bunning etc…ridiculous!
by Hobbes2d on Jun 30, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marichal should have won over Seaver in 1969. He threw 26 innings more, lead the league in ERA and WHIP, and had a significantly better K/BB. Except for that, he just got unlucky – I couldn’t believe he didn’t win in 1968 until I saw that Gibson threw over 300 innings of 1.12 ERA. Yeah, different era, except his ERA+ was 258, which stayed the modern day record for 27 years, until Maddox set a new one in ’94. And then, of course, Pedro Martinez happened.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 30, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marchial has the most wins without a Cy Young Award.
by SFGuy on Jun 30, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My man, Atlee
Still like seeing two Atlee Hammaker games in the top 25. People often forget how great he was before it all fell apart.
I still treasure my first visit to Dodger stadium where he owned those dogs and Fernando in the height of Fernandomania. Eat it, Dodger fans.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
by achiappanza on Jun 30, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Eat it, Dodger fans
Lasorda beat them to it.
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 30, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My brother and I were watching a Giants game in 1989...
…and a fan rooting for the opposing team heckled Atlee Hammaker by repeatedly screaming, “All Star Game, Atlee Hammaker! All Star Game!” (You know, since Hammaker gave up a slam like six years before in the 1983 All-Star Game [before my time].)
For years and years my brother and I would always bring out the Hammaker taunt to distract each other when playing sports. It still makes me laugh, actually.
"El once, chico. Eleven."
by Juan Primo on Jun 30, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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