What would it take to get Holliday?
by hairball on Jun 30, 2009 10:50 AM PDT
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PrintThe A's could always use more and better young pitching. I could see a very simple package requested like Alderson and Lewis/Winn, or a more complex package that involves several lesser pieces (Neal+Barnes+such-and-such).
Earlier in the year, I thought this type of trade would be possible, but I wasn't for it. Now that the Giants may actually be a hot hitter away from the playoffs, I could get behind it. What do you think?
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I'm really not that interested in Holliday actually
by FairweatherFan on Jun 30, 2009 10:52 AM PDT reply actions
Actually, Valdez+Lewis/Winn+a B- prospect could probably work
at least in my universe.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I'd do that
I would think they’d prefer Winn over Lewis since Winn’s a Type FA and they’d get the comp picks they’d lose with Holliday.
I also think the Giants would have to pick up a ton of Winn’s salary to make the deal better for the A’s.
An outfield of Holliday, Rowand and Nate would be pretty sweet.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
run crackerzz.exe
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jun 30, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
/ golf clap
Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Fuggen Rox! You might want to try beating The Bums more than once in 10 games. Try it. You might find you like it.
Winn+ Valdez would probably work for me. As much as I like “Randy Winn, Professional Baseball Player” he will not be here next year. Valdez has potential, but he also has potential to be injured.
Not a big fan of the Holliday, but a three month rental that costs Winn and Valdez would not hurt that much. I do not think that the Giants would have that much of a chance to re-sign Holliday, and I am not sure I would want him here long term. I am still not convinced he is an $80M hitter outside of Coors.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Why would they trade a good OF who’s a free agent after this year for a bad OF who’s a free agent after this year and an injury prone reliever with a career 1.38 K/BB?
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
because Sabean has naughty pictures with Billy Beane in them
by microwave donut on Jun 30, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
As Hairball said, this is a trade that could probably work, "at least in my universe".
It is not realistic, but neither is Sabean trading Winn. Randy Winn is not a bad OF. A bad hitting OF right now, yes he is. I do not see Winn going anywhere. Just give me a second or two of bliss believing Sabean could pull one over on Beane.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Well, if the Giants were doing poorly, it’d be the “BOCHY NEEDS TO BE FIRED” or “SABEAN NEEDS TO GO” or “DUMP ALL THESE PLAYERS FOR A PILE OF CRAP” threads.
by deuce deuce on Jun 30, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
DFA EVERYBODY!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
by EliminateMe on Jun 30, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that your version of a "syntax error" message?
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
+1
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
"He got his pitch; he did not miss it" - Cainer
"Kung Fu Panda don't get hurt" - Cainer
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 30, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah
If you want him (and that is not a certainty), just pay cash and a draft pick in the offseason.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 30, 2009 10:55 AM PDT reply actions
The point
I think you be missing it.
Whether or not we keep Holliday as part of our long-term plans is a different question entirely. What I want is a shot at the playoffs, and Holliday may be one of the best additions we can make to get there.
I’m not a “mortgage our future for the present” type at all, but I do like the taste of contending, and what we could accomplish with our playoff pitching.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Holliday gets you to the playoffs without touching bases!
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 30, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
+1'd by Goofus
On the one hand, I thank you. On the other, I feel dirty.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
79 wins
Rental players get an automatic “nah” from me.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 30, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
you're sticking with that?
you have real faith in teh suck. I almost admire that.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Yep
Tim and Matt don’t pitch every night. And the offense (even as bad as it has looked) is playing over their heads.
Anyone you trade for Holliday right now is essentially being given away for nothing. You may as well cram them all into the crapper and hit flush.
With that said, if a ridiculously one-sided deal is available, then of course you take it. I doubt it is.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 30, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Not quite given away for nothing, given away for two extra draft picks if he doesn’t re-sign with us
the draft picks make it ok
if it’s a spare part thing as outlined above… an OF and a reliever and some moderate prospect. I think the A’s are never going to ship him across the bay for that kind of haul, however. Probably calling the Pads to ask for Peavy and Adrian G. AIM HIGH BILLY BEAN
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jun 30, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
79 is the McCoven measuring stick of sheer geniuses :-D
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Nice
How did you do that?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Here are two html character entities that work in both IE and FF.
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My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Rios
for a few second-tier players and some dough
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 30, 2009 10:57 AM PDT reply actions
Probably a lower cost deal
Less upside, but there’s always the Coors factor with Holliday to consider. I could go for Rios if the deal was right.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
We’re going to need all the help we can get get at Coors the way the Rockies are playing the way we’ve historically played there.
I’d talk to both teams about Rios and Holiday so that I don’t have to look desperate for one of them.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Yes the Rox.
1 win & 9 Loses vs. the Bums. They are a 1 team Manny-less relief package.
Sarcasm and bitterness aside tell the Rox can give the Bums a run for their money the Rox are , at best, want to be pretenders.
Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Fuggen Rox! You might want to try beating The Bums more than once in 10 games. Try it. You might find you like it.
by daveinexile on Jun 30, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Point of reference:
I realized a lot of players I would want in a potential trade for the Giants, are the guys that were involved in this.
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 30, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Yet another outfielder?
I don’t think Holliday’s good enough to block Bowker or Lewis or Schierholtz. He’s not even a lefty!
“Not a lefty” is a feature, not a bug. If there’s one thing we’ve got, it’s left-handed corner outfielders.
But still …
Matt Holliday 2009: .277/.373/.431
John Bowker’s MLE: .300/.378/.481
+1
This thread needs more Bowkermania
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
What's Bowker's MLE if you subtract all the appearances where he didn't go 4 for 4?
Just trying to introduce some more arbitrary cutoffs to make the numbers look better.
WHAT ARE HOLLIDAY'S NUMBERS ON AMERICAN BOWKERS?
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Holliday
I wouldn’t want to give up anything greater than Henry Sosa and Fred Lewis. I’d give up Winn, but I don’t think the A’s would want him. He’s only a type B FA right now anyway and I doubt the A’s would offer him arbitration because he might accept.
Holliday will be a rental and even if we have a shot at signing him in the offseason, Boras will definitely have him test the market, which will drive up the price. Anyway, we have the same shot right now. So, the Giants probably won’t keep him and get a couple comp picks in a draft that, for now, looks thin, and those picks probably won’t produce big leaguers for 2-5 more years depending on who we picked.
I’m all for contending and think Holliday would look great in a Giants uni, but the team shouldn’t give up any of their top prospects for a 3-month rental – that includes Posey, Mad Bum, AnVil, T2 and Neal.
Anyway, whoever we trade would be on the A’s and I hate the damn A’s. If it didn’t work out, we’d never hear the end of it from asshole A’s fans (redundant, I know) about how Beane snookered Sabean.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 30, 2009 11:58 AM PDT reply actions
The A's thing is irrational
And Holliday’s not having a great year, so if that continues, low price, and if it doesn’t continue, he helps you to the playoffs. As Lisa Stevens would say…
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I’m not saying that’s a reason not to do a deal, though a “rivalry” type deal might include a markup. That’s just from my fan point of view.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 30, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Holliday is just unhappy being in oakland. yes, being out of Coors doesn’t help things, but he’s clearly a talented player and even after a sub-par season, I can still see him making out nicely in free agency. he’ll be the premier guy.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 30, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL'd
I doubt the A’s would offer him arbitration because he might accept.
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...
Someone's going to have to explain to me why that wouldn't be a good thing
Another year of Holliday, non-guaranteed contract, below-market wages? Where do I sign up for this deal?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Getting a job with benefits usually entails a few holidays. Look into getting one of those.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jun 30, 2009 11:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The scarier question is
What would Sabean give up for Holliday?
I like cats. Wings is the greatest show of all time.
Tyler Graham is my favorite San Jose Giant because he has smart balls.
Not really interested for a number of reasons.
1) He’s not going to sign and extension & so he’s certainly a rental player.
2) He’s not hitting especially well this year so i’m not certain of exactly how much of an upgrade he’ll be.
3) Whilst we are contending & should be looking to upgrade, our best hope is more in the future & so i wouldn’t give up anything important to the future.
4) The A’s will get picks at the end of the season so we’d have to trade more than that in order to aquire him.
5) Given that he’s going to require more than that, i’m not that interested in him.
If all it took was a couple of Sosa/Valdez level players then i might make the trade (as we’d get draft picks) but he’s going to require more.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I hope some other general manager SWOOPS in and takes Holliday from “genius” Billy Beane before Sabes has a chance to trade away the farm and/or SJ territorial rights for a mere two month rental, I really do.
Don't the A's need a stadium too?
Throw that in for good measure… they can put it on a barge and tow it to Jack London Sq. GITRDUNN BRAIN
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jun 30, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't give much
I certainly wouldn’t give up Alderson, but if Fred Lewis and Sosa, or a similar deal, would get it done, I would do it. Maybe that would work, if the A’s just wanted to dump salary. I see no reason the A’s would ever take Winn (since they wouldn’t want to offer him arbitration), but that’s OK, Sabean’s not trading him anyway.
I guess it really depends on whether or not there’s any market for Holliday apart from the Giants. If so, I certainly wouldn’t get into a bidding war for him, even though another RH bat would be helpful.
Just sign him
in the off season. We don’t give up any prospects and we can have him as a building piece moving forward.
I’d hope not. An offseason filled with Boras is an offseason I don’t want to be a part of.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jun 30, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Instead of that baseball, imagine $126MM in $1 bills piled on that table.
Yeah, Boras makes me sick to the stomach as well.
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 30, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Instead of that baseball, imagine $126MM in $1 bills piled on that table.
How about on 500 lb. pallets, dropped from a helicopter?
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jun 30, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
on top of Zito?
is that claimable for insurance purposes?
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 1, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Let’s see what Bowker does with 150-200 more MLB P.A.’s ( this season please) before we start bringing in more veteran corner Outfielders with long contract to clog up the works. We could very well have our upgrade already in house.
Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Fuggen Rox! You might want to try beating The Bums more than once in 10 games. Try it. You might find you like it.
What about Jermaine Dye?
Guy’s got a great bat, would probably hit 30-40 HRs a season, .981 career fielding pct. and is from California. Would be worth a look, but does Schierholtz play any other field other than RF?
"It kind of gives everybody else out there who is not a big person the motivation and the inspiration that they know they can do it, too."--Tim Lincecum
by Timlincecum.com on Jun 30, 2009 1:00 PM PDT reply actions
I think Dye would have to be a LF here. in SF, right field is just CF 2.0
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 30, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Dye's from Vacaville...
He went to Cosumnes River Community College in Cali as well.
"It kind of gives everybody else out there who is not a big person the motivation and the inspiration that they know they can do it, too."--Tim Lincecum
by Timlincecum.com on Jun 30, 2009 1:31 PM PDT reply actions
Posey and Bumgarner, at least
And if Sabes has to throw in Cain too, then so be it.
Although adding Timmy would make me hesitate
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
last I checked
The giants need INFIELDERS.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I wonder...
How many people of the people here advocating a trade were among those who recommended the Giants trade for Adrian Beltre? He just decided to get surgery and will be out 6-8 weeks, or roughly until September.
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
"He got his pitch; he did not miss it" - Cainer
"Kung Fu Panda don't get hurt" - Cainer
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 30, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions
For a while I was advocating a Beltre trade.
vSandoval’s work has changed that for me. 3rd base has stopped being the home of flaming disaster for a while. Now day I look at SS in dread. Cf still makes me shudder as well (Yes, still think Rowand will be a corner Outfielder (or rover) for the bulk of his contract even though Rowand could , possibly, end up on this year all star squad).
Beltre was claiming he was hurting last season. The front office basically was saying, " slap some dirt on it." I really thought Bavasi & company had checked things out. Now that assumption has come back and bit me in the arse. I take solace in that it has bit the M’s in the arse harder. 2 compensation picks would have been real nice for them.
Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Fuggen Rox! You might want to try beating The Bums more than once in 10 games. Try it. You might find you like it.
Gonna pass on Holliday
Because I think it would take too much to get done. No way the A’s take Lewis/Winn and a B prospect for Holliday; it’s just not going to happen. We’d have to give up top 5 talent and there’s no way we should be willing to do that for a rental (because he will be).
On the other hand, if the A’s are willing to make a deal for no one significant (Lewis, Winn, Sosa, Neal, Crawford, etc) then take him, offer him arbitration, and get the comp picks, because he won’t sign with the Giants. I’d give up mediocre prospects and a few unnecessary pieces for a couple picks given the way we’ve drafted in the past.
Even though he is a righty
We supposedly could use another righy bat, besides what we already have, note that Winn notoriously is a second half player, and he would have to replace what we already have. Holliday may have had Bonds like numbers at Coors, but he has been Randy Winn elsewhere. Just say no to Holliday unless you can get him for a wing and a prayer.
I’d rather call up Bowker.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
no June swoon
So far the giants are tied for the second best record in June 16-10 as is HOuston, the fish are 16-11, Only the Rockies have a better record. After the first week of the season, the giants have quite a respectable record. Don’t trade away the future unless you are really getting something special, LIke Hanley ramirez, from a team that hates payroll, or some young player that could hit back to back with Sandoval and be a force to be reckoned with.
The Bowker factor… It’d be tough to give up talent for any outfielder right now with the way Bowker is playing.
Focus on any infield position where a cheaper upgrade would provide much more value to the team.
Dan Uggla!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Yes, please! (assuming I haven’t fallen into some sort of sar-chasm)
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
No, I’m serious, I really love the idea of trading for him. Unless he’d be super-expensive (I might trade Alderson for him, none of the other big four.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Where do you play him defensively? Imagine an Uggla & Renteria MI. Tim2.o seems a little high of a price to pay for that.
Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Fuggen Rox! You might want to try beating The Bums more than once in 10 games. Try it. You might find you like it.
Second, I mean, it’s not like our 2b have been any great shakes this year.
That is kind of uggla though, to think about.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Uggla isn’t great defensively, but he is a much better second baseman than Jermaine Dye is a RF.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Dan Uggla sucks. That .220 average makes it hard to say no though.
Matt Cain's right hand beats a Royal Flush.
by Viva Gigantes on Jun 30, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
He doesn’t suck at all. Even with the current lowBABIPfueled batting average, he’s a huge upgrade over our current 2Bs. If his performance gets back to normal in the second half, he could really help a ton. (And there’s no reason it shouldn’t – I believe his Iso, his BB-rate and his K-rate are all up … it’s just a flukey low BA right now.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
OPS+ at 106
& 5 GIDP’s this whole year. Beats out Aurillia by a longshot.
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 30, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Still wondering why people are high on this poser. He needs to head back to Colorado to get those inflated stats back up. Nate is just as good if not better, Rowand is definitely better, and I’d frankly rather see Bowker or Neal in the outfield before Holliday. My $.02
Matt Cain's right hand beats a Royal Flush.
So you wouldn’t trade Nate straight-up for Holliday?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Why would we? They are essentially the same player. I’d like to see what Nate could do at Coors. Holliday is batting .272 w/ 3 HRs in 180 ABs at AT&T.
Matt Cain's right hand beats a Royal Flush.
by Viva Gigantes on Jun 30, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Sandwich picks typically receive B or B- grades from John Sickels
Holliday is worth one of those, plus either a first-rounder or a second-rounder, which averages out to about the same value, after this season. He also, obviously, has not-insignificant value (~2 WAR) for the remainder of THIS season. Let’s call it the value of one B and 2 B- prospects, or 2 Bs if you’d prefer (generally, each Sickels grade is worth about twice as much as the next lowest grade).
It’s hard to tell exactly where people are right this second because their values have moved around some, but as far as I can tell, a package of a B and 2 B-’s would be something akin to Villalona/Neal/Sosa at this point.
If that was actually the package that the A’s would accept, I’d probably make the move, because I’m not particularly high on any of those guys’ chances to do well at the MLB level. I don’t see Beane accepting it, though, because it matches up wrong with the A’s’ team needs. (No infielders, in particular.)
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2009 5:08 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Seriously?
You would trade a future premier first baseman, a solid outfielder with unlimited potential, and a starter who has been excellent this year for one year with a slug poser like Holliday who probably won’t hit 20 HRs or bat .280 this year? I’d take my chances with Nate and let those players develop a bit more. I’ve watched Neal play, I can’t wait to see him in an SF uni.
Matt Cain's right hand beats a Royal Flush.
by Viva Gigantes on Jun 30, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think Villalona is even a future STARTING first baseman, forget premier,
for starters. Neal I like (a lot) more, but he could be a small-sample-size mirage. Sosa’s dip in K rate is very worrisome and he’s had injury problems.
You’re potentially selling high on all 3 of them.
As for Holliday, I mean, the guy is really good. Check his WAR numbers for the past few seasons at fangraphs. I don’t know whether it’s lackadaisical attitude in Oakland, the Coliseum getting to his head, or just plain ol’ bad luck which has led to him posting merely “good” numbers so far this year, but he’s a lot better than his April-June this season.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Interesting. I think you’ve come the closest to a realistic trade discussion. I could see Sabean trying to move Alderson because of the strength of the major-league rotation.
Perhaps Alderson/Neal/Sosa.
I am on the trade for Holliday bandwagon.....
….. and I don’t think I could justify giving up AnVil. I would seriously consider a package of Neal, Sosa, and Flew though.
Hopefully we could sign him long term and have a great outfield moving forward. Hollday, Rowand, Nate, Bowker, and Torres would be awesome next year. If not just use the two picks we would get to draft a couple of power hitting outfielders to replace Neal.
I would much rather give up Villalona than either of the other two of those
His minor league track record is suggestive of a player who will hit like Bengie Molina without even having the excuse of being a catcher. Frankly, a B- grade is generous for him at this point.
I really loathe prospects of his type. The hype to success ratio is higher, I think, than for just about any other kind of player. Look at how Greg Halman is doing this year— that’s what I see from Villalona in a year or two. I’d look to move him for value any way I could right now.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Look, I’ve been beating the “Villalona is overrated” drum for quite a while now, but his minor league track record is actually suggestive of a player whom you can’t project at all without an extremely high probability of making yourself look like an idiot. He has holes in his game that you could drive a truck through. He’s also playing in high-A at age 18, which is something very few players in modern baseball can manage. (He’s having the same year at the same age that Greg Halman had, but two levels higher.) And no scout has ever watched him swing the bat without coming away impressed.
He could be Joel Guzman or he could be the best hitter in baseball. It’s largely up to his desire and his coaching, I think.
Also...
The great Sandoval wasn’t even doing as good as Villalona is at his age.
And Sandoval has become a damn good player at the age of 22.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jul 2, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
ALSO!
I’m pretty damn sure many people were looking at Sandoval at the age of 19 and thinking “Jeebuzz this guy has so many holes”, as we would likely see from many 19 year olds (if not 100% of 19 year olds).
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jul 2, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
It is definitionally true that one in every 100 prospects will hit their 99th percentile outcome...
Not, however, relevant to the question of whether some other prospect will hit his.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
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