Sabean needs to read this blog
by NeifiChicken on Jun 3, 2009 5:47 PM PDT
72 comments
Perhaps I just haven't been following too closely, but I have yet to see Grant pat himself on the back too hard for Ben Zobrist. That was Grant's number 1 man crush according to my memory and look at what he's done for Tampa since he's been up last year with regular PT
326 at-bats
21 homers
.273/.369/.561
He also just hit a grand slam today, so the numbers are now slightly better.
Oh yeah, and he can play middle infield, where we've pretty much been the ugliest looking offensive team there in that time frame.
So if your back is not already worn out from patting it yourself, here's one from me Grant. You identified a perfect target for the Giants who in 330 at-bats with Tampa has already been more productive than any hitter the Giants have had since Barry Bonds
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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SB Nation are shameless bastards
automatically hyperlinking every player and team name to their own pages.
by NeifiChicken on Jun 3, 2009 5:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sabean Blows....
And Bochy must be on the receiving end…
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on Jun 3, 2009 5:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately
Unfortunately our GM only looks for bargains like Ricky Ledee and Michael Tucker.
Don't believe everything you think.
by wcovington on Jun 3, 2009 6:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Brandon
Yes, I’ll grant him Medders and Justin Miller. But the ledger is still way against Sabes. For instance: one Edgar R. at $18M!!!!
Don't believe everything you think.
by wcovington on Jun 3, 2009 6:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah…because that 18 million dollars over the next 2 years is really going to make a difference to the team, and we’d be WAY better off with Bocock starting at SS again.
by Nibbler on Jun 3, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d still rather have Burriss at SS and pay Orlando Hudson twice what the Dodgers gave him to play 2B. A middle infielder without above average speed, power or defensive abilities is not someone you should target early on in free agency.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jun 4, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking this the other day
But then again, Zobrist had shown much indication that he was THIS good of a player.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 3, 2009 6:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of bargains, what ever happened to Phelps?
It’s like he finds the bargains, and then decides not to play them.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
by MonkeyChow on Jun 3, 2009 7:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He had a shoulder injury, I think he’s still out with that.
by kaliber on Jun 3, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even without the injury
it’s unlikely the Giants would have cashed in on the opportunity.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 3, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Grant’s #1 crush was Uggla
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 9:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
reading the blog
That reminded me: this article is referring to mccovey chronicles, is it not?
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Jun 3, 2009 10:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
by oldjacket on Jun 4, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edgar Rent "for two years" eria
Makes me wanna diarrhea…mamma mia…
by SSC24 on Jun 3, 2009 11:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If he read this blog...
he would get phenomenally stupid ideas like moving Jonathan Sanchez to the Bullpen or trading Matt Cain for Prince Fielder.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 4, 2009 7:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
In truth...
the vast majority of ideas thrown around this and any other blog are just not very good.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 4, 2009 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He got the phenomenally stupid idea of moving Jonathan Sanchez to the bullpen all by himself — remember 2006?
It’s funny that Cain-for-Fielder has become this blog’s shorthand for “stupid trade idea” when in fact it’s about as even a trade as you could hope to find,
by Evan on Jun 4, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on which Fielder you are getting. 2006 and 2008 Fielder, no. 2007 and (potentially) 2009 Fielder, yes. I think that’s why people didn’t like the CAIN 4 FIELDER TRADEZ. His 2008 wasn’t very good.
by xanthan on Jun 4, 2009 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But his 2007 was better than anything Cain has ever done.
Absent some compelling reason not to, I’d just average those seasons out. I think Fielder 2007-09 comes out at exactly the same WAR as Cain 2007-09.
They’re both three years away from free agency. Fielder will make more money over those years, though not a huge amount more. Weighed against that you have the inherent riskiness of pitchers, especially those who’ve thrown a lot of pitches in their early 20s and may already be losing velocity.
I wouldn’t make the trade, but that’s just because of emotional attachment. It looks very even from a pure baseball standpoint.
by Evan on Jun 4, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Fielder is a free agent after 2010
Cots’ Baseball contracts:
Cain – 07:$0.4M, 08:$0.7M, 09:$2.65M, 10:$4.25M, 11:$6.25M club option
Fielder: 09:$6.5M, 10:$10.5M AND agent: Scott Boras
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on Jun 4, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he came up in midseason 2005, so he only has three and a half years in. He’ll have one more arb-eligible season after his current contract expires.
by Evan on Jun 4, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain’s 2009 could beat his 2007!
Just kidding, but you’re right in that it’s a pretty fair trade. I know I was personally soured on Fielder after his 2008 season. A .370 wOBA first basemen with bad defense isn’t that valuable. But, as it turns out, I might have soured on him too quickly. He’s hitting well this season.
Also, Resdog beat me too it, Cain has a slightly more favorable contract (if his arm doesn’t fall off).
by xanthan on Jun 4, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
silly kenshin...
I have not followed the Brewers very closely this season and was largely unaware of Fielder’s rebound.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 4, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fielder was just 24 last year, so it’d be kind of nuts to look at his 2008 and say, “Well, there’s that guy’s ceiling.” I love Cain, but I don’t see why the Brewers would just do a one-for-one swap unless Gamel goes goofy.
by Grant on Jun 4, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
1st base is the easiest position to find an adequate player at and SP is comparatively difficult/more expensive. Why would you not trade Fielder for Cain if they have comparable value?
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 4, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, 1B is easier to fill than other spots, but Fielder is an 80 power guy. Count up the number of 50-homer guys and 115 ERA+/200 IP pitchers, as that would be a better comparison than just 1B/SP. And Fielder is only 25, so he might not have peaked yet. I’m a big positional scarcity guy, but Fielder has as much potential as just about any player in the next five years (before his body Mo Vaughns him.)
by Grant on Jun 4, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm...
I don’t agree.
Fielder vs Cain Win Values
2006 1.1 vs 3.5
2007 4.9 vs 4.1
2008 2.6 vs 3.7
2009 1.3 vs 1
Fielder has been better in only 1 and 1/3 season out of four (and even so only about 1 win better during that time). Cain is likely as good a pitcher now as he will ever be and fielder has some room to grow as a hitter as he ages; however, he is already terrible 1st basemen (his UZR has always been <-8) currently on pace for his worst defensive season. He will be giving a significant portion of any offensive gain back as his defense follows the normal aging trajectory. Fielder is a DH masquerading as a 1st baseman. He needs to hit like a superstar to be a legitimate allstar. I am loathe to bet on ANY pitcher (even Timmy) to be good in 5 years; however, over the remainder of their team control years, I would take Cain over Fielder.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 4, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
self-replying is mental masterbation
I guess I see Cain as a pitcher who is a known quantity at 3.5-4.5 Wins whereas Fielder may peak as a 5-6 win player. For Fielder to be a 6 win player he has to hit like 2008 Albert Pujols because he’s giving a win back with his defense.
It’s easier and cheaper to add 1 win at 1st base than it is at SP.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 4, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Self-replying twice will lead to callouses and mental hairy palms.
by Grant on Jun 4, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to add...
a grander conclusion but couldn’t phrase it properly. Thus the addition of the rather lame “It’s easier and cheaper to add 1 win at 1st base than it is at SP”
Besides, I am mental masturbation addict
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 4, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it REALLY easier and cheaper to add 1 win at 1st base than at SP, though? I mentioned Odalis Perez earlier — there’s a guy who racks up 1.5 WAR year after year, and I’m sure he would happily work for the first team to give him a call.
People say that first base is the easiest position to find an adequate player, but I don’t understand why that should be. Sure there are more decent hitters who play first base, but the bar is so high there that being a decent hitter isn’t good enough.
by Evan on Jun 4, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think so...
Look what the mariners did this year with their 1st base platoon of Branyon et al. (obviously Branyon is having a great season out of line with past performance). Those types of players are available every offseason. I think finding a decent league minimum SP is much harder.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 4, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Counterpoints: Livan Hernandez, Brian Tallet, Zach Duke …
There’s always cheap flawed talent hanging around. Sometimes you get Branyan 2009, but more often you get Klesko 2007.
It probably is easier to get an average first baseman than an average SP, simply because most teams are already set at first whereas every team in baseball wants another pitcher. But the really interesting question is, is it easier to get a superstar 1b than a superstar pitcher? And I don’t see any evidence for that. Teixeira got more money out of the Yankees than Sabathia did.
by Evan on Jun 4, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that is true, then why the hell is Aurilia still manning the bag?
Robby Thompson "hey Hinshaw, let me see your hat for a minute."
Alex HInshaw "Why?"
Robby Thompson ,"You'll see...."
by LargeFarva on Jun 6, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If by even you mean, “Sideways trade that really doesn’t make the Giants better,” then I’d still say it’s a pretty stupid idea. Okay, maybe not stupid, just not that smart of a trade. Lincecum for Rios would have been a stupid trade.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jun 4, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whether it makes the team better is dependent on context. The Giants have the worst first-base production in baseball by a country mile, so Fielder would probably be more valuable to the team than Cain right now even if we have to fill Cain’s slot with Pucetas or Kinney or Misch (oops) or Odalis Perez or some other scrub. If Joe Martinez were healthy, or Bumgarner/Alderson were ready, the advantage would be even greater.
by Evan on Jun 4, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if the point of the trade is to make the playoffs, then relying on any combination of Lincecum, 45-year-old Randy Johnson, Zito, Sanchez, and Pucetas to get you through each level of the playoffs makes me a lot less confident than Lincecum-Cain-whomever. Even with a a major upgrade in the middle of the lineup.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jun 4, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But shouldn’t the point of any move be trying to incrementally make the team better? We’re not one or two moves away from being a good team. On the ESPN Baseball Today podcast today Pascarelli mentioned a conversation he had with Sabean this week in which Brian apparently said “people keep saying I should trade for a big bat, but if you watch our team every day you see that we don’t need one bat, we need three or four bats.” Sabean’s totally right about that — they need an upgraded lineup from 1 through 8, and the only way to do that is to start doing it. You’re not going to make a trade for 8 better hitters in one shot. So at some point in some way you have to start acquiring better hitters if you’re ever going to take advantage of the Lincecum years or Lincecum/Cain years.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you think about it, we don’t need eight better hitters. You need three bats that can stick in the middle of the lineup and give you some consistency. You can round out a team with the likes of Molina, Sandoval, Renteria, Winn, and Lewis, so long as none of them are the key pieces of your lineup. But if you’re trading away Cain now, you’re still wasting Lincecum, unless you think the above, non-Cain rotation is good enough to make the playoffs this year.
Next year is probably going to be a different story, provided some of our up-and-coming pitching is actually ready. But if Bumgarner makes it to the majors and gets his ass handed to him, and Alderson can’t deal, and Sosa ends up looking like 2009 Sanchez… We’re still not in a position of strength.
I swear all I do on here anymore is argue against trading Cain for one hitter. Why is that?
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jun 4, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re in a rut, JR. Why don’t you try arguing for, I dunno, trading Barry Zito plus cash for Chris Davis?
by Evan on Jun 4, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking Zito, Rowand, and Ishikawa for Pujols. Zito because he won a Cy Young, Ishikawa to replace Pujols at first, and Rowand because I said so.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jun 4, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep rounding out your lineup like that and you’re gonna end up with a pretty big hole.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 4, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True. None of them provide any value to a team currently around .500, why would they be of any use to a team above .500?
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jun 4, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2008/7/18/574295/half-serious
“Fred Lewis, Randy Winn, and either Tim Alderson or Madison Bumgarner for Delmon Young and Chris Parmalee. Carlos Gomez goes to the minors for seasoning, the Twins have a new and productive outfield for the stretch run, and they’re still making a trade for the future. The Giants hope that Young becomes the cleanup hitter he was projected to be as the 1st-overall pick.”
Grant Brisbee, July 18, 2008.
My point is that, by cherry picking one idea out of hundreds, you could make anyone look like a genius, or like an idiot.
Another point is that damn, that was a bad idea. I mean, it looks even worse in retrospect, but it was a bad idea back then too.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 4, 2009 2:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
RIOS FOR LINCECUM
DO IT GINATS BRAS, TIM KAWAKAMI SAYS SO
by jctGamer on Jun 4, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes one person in the world…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 4, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also still believe in Alex Smith.
Also: George Lucas.
by Grant on Jun 4, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jar-Jar !
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jun 4, 2009 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Misa Jakoff
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jun 4, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
C3PO sucks a lot too.
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
by oldjacket on Jun 5, 2009 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s young, but he’ll need to have a power explosion and make pretty significant strides with his plate discipline in order to be a really good player.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 5, 2009 3:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I once had a power explosion, it wasn’t pretty.
by xanthan on Jun 5, 2009 5:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I told you to get a surge protector, but you just wouldn’t listen.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 5, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Butt pee rarely is.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on Jun 5, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh my lord
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 5, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quiet, you.
(Also, note the title of the offending post, dammit.)
by Grant on Jun 6, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s one half too many.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 6, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/dreams of Grant-flavored lineup with Carlos Pena, Ben Zobrist, Asdrubal Cabrera, Nelson Cruz, and Delmon Young
//ignores dozens of Bumgarner-for-Young type suggestions
by Grant on Jun 7, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t let hts know about Grant flavor.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 8, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ouch
our 2 best hitters and tim/bumgarner for a -6.5 win player. That trade is almost AJ bad.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-to-do-with-delmon
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jun 6, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I like how this thread praised Grant, reviling him as a prophet at first and now, not so much.
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jun 6, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The word for which you are looking is not “revile”.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 6, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just looked it up. heh
/cue “the more you know”
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jun 7, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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