How about trading down and seeing what the young(er) guys can do
Grant beautifully outlined why the Giants either acquire multiple quality players or it just isn't worth it.
I continue to see a bunch of people suggesting marginal to medium upgrades to what we currently have.
Since I don't see the Giants getting the number of impacting players needed, logically we either stand pat OR how about we explore trading our guys who are not in our longer term plans.
Yes, I believe our guys are worth more than some people think. I don't overvalue our guys, it is simply that the Giants have not been open much in the past to other teams minor leaguers because we were trying to fill specific spots on our major league roster -- making it difficult to find good trade partners and always making it a sellers market we were entering into as buyers.
Yes there would also be the "give up" backlash, but I think we could better set ourselves up for next year and making a serious run in the playoffs (not just getting there.)
I think following should be made available:
- Winn
- Rowand
- Renteria
- Molina
- Howry
even Justin Miller
I'm not talking about a total, eat-a-bunch-of-salary-just-to-dump-players move, just if someone is interested, get best return possible without trying to fill specific major league holes. Then see what we really have. I honestly wouldn't mind playing the 2nd half with:
OF = Lewis, Schierholtz, Bowker, Torres (Copeland)
IF = Ishikawa, Sandoval, Burriss, Uribe, Frandsen, Downs (Jesus)
And with all the new parts coming in, if there is a impacting player available we could see on the team long term, then go for it and add another one or two during the off season.
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None of those guys are going anywhere since the Giants are “contending” at the moment. I’m not even sure any team would want them anyway. Maybe Winn.
Judgment Day is coming
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by Natto on Jun 29, 2009 11:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rowand isn’t tradeable due to his contract. Renteria isn’t tradeable because of his contract and because he sucks as baseball. Unit is a guy i could see being dealt but won’t be b/c we are contenders! Molina won’t be dealt because “we can’t trade our cleanup hitter!” Howry and Miller could be dealt, but probably won’t bring much of anything back in a deal. Winn could be dealt, but we’d have to pick up the rest of his salary this year if we want something back in return.
In essence, if we want to get the big bats we need to make a run at this thing this year, we need to give up valuable prospects. I’d just as soon stand pat and let our free agents walk after this year and use all that extra money to extend Lincecum and Cain and sign a few cheap place holders until the cavalry arrives from the minors.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 29, 2009 11:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No one wants most of those guys. Winn, I would trade. Rowand, I think you underestimate how dire our CF situation would be after this year if we traded him. And come on, he’s having a very good year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 29, 2009 12:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if we trade Rowand
CF = Velez
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 29, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just curled up into the fetal position.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 29, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I little piece of me dies every time some mentions this
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jun 29, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgot about him
but there’s no guarantee that he’s on the team after this year anyway.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 29, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, actually, Torres would take over CF. He is better on D than Rowand, a potential leadoff hitter, but we just don’t know how well he will get on base.
by allfrank on Jun 29, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be a big mistake imo. he might be better defensively than Rowand but his hitting will be a HUGE downgrade. And Aaron has played well defensively this year and has done so in the past as well.
If we could get something good for Rowand, I’d be okay with trading him but just dumping him off would be a huge mistake.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 29, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a good comment.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jun 29, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming Cain/Lincecum are fixtures and will definitely resign
Any pitching prospect but Bumgarner and Alderson can be traded.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 29, 2009 12:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Everybody should be made available. There is no one single veteran on this team who is indispensable, and the only young guys who are are Lincecum and Cain. In the right deal, we need to consider trading anyone.
As for a mass dumping of vets, that would be a terrible idea. I’d rather give up the veterans for prospects and let the young guys play, because at this point I don’t think Winn is necessary; we’ve got Bowker, Torres, and Lewis, a full outfield, that isn’t getting regular playing time. Who needs Winn? Rowand can go for the same reasons, RJ can go because he hasn’t been that good even in a pitcher’s park (though he’s been better at home) and there’s a serious lack of pitching out there, Zito can go because DUUUUUUHHHH, Molina can go because we don’t need him hitting cleanup when we’ve got Sandoval/Schierholtz/Ishikawa and he can’t run, Howry and Miller can go because they’re two of our worse relievers in one of the best bullpens in the majors and we got Romo back.
But if we trade RJ, Winn, Molina, and Howry, this team has no leadership anymore, except for maybe Rowand. It’s still only June, and we very well may contend; we can’t have the Pirates strategy of “Oh, let’s trade our decent players, we’ll contend next year with the prospects we get”. In case you hadn’t noticed, that hasn’t worked out too well. If you find yourself in contention, do what you can to get to the playoffs, because that’s the hardest part. I think this team has a reasonable shot of going all the way, because about 70% of the teams in baseball have a reasonable shot. If we’re 10 games out of the wild card at the trade deadline, then sure, dump salary and players to let the young guys play, but stay in it as long as possible.
by quincy0191 on Jun 29, 2009 12:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Torres is not the future.
Great scrapheap pickup as a 5th OF, and I’m loving the production he’s provided so far. But he’s a minor league journeyman who’s only about 6 months younger than Rowand. Like jponry said above, dumping Rowand in order to give playing time to Torres would be a huge mistake.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
by EliminateMe on Jun 29, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand and Johnson
Are having very decent years (Rowand could even make it to the All Star team if a manager feels the need for more of that gamer edge to his team) and Johnson will win in the Post Season if we make it there. He knows he might not make it back, if we get there, count on being in the game each start he makes.
Renteria isn’t going anywhere, and we really don’t have anyone who can replace him. Sandoval’s hitting would drop off as the everyday Catcher, so unless by some miracle Buster Posey moves up (which he shouldnt unless he crushes AAA pitching and can manage those guys, keep Bengie but move him down in the line-up to 6th). The Giants team is the one we want. The only change we need is a better 2B, 1B, and more power from the OF. If we can get one of those, we will make it to the playoffs, if we can get all of those, I believe we can win the NL.
by gimpsta7 on Jun 29, 2009 12:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This Fanpost Is Pointless.
With the Giants currently 40-34 and leading the wildcard race there is now way management is even going to consider choosing to be sellers and anyone with half a brain should know this.
by giantsrainman on Jun 29, 2009 12:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a third of a brain and I know this.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jun 29, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t trade Rowand, Molina, or Randy….. but if we found takers for the others I would trade them as long as we were getting something of value back.
We aren’t a small market team – no reason for salary dumps!
by OTTOMATIC on Jun 29, 2009 1:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
To further crap all over this post: Winn, Molina and Johnson are FAs after the season and therefore represent draftpicks.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jul 3, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Prefer they be Type B FA so their new teams can sign them without fear losing a pick and netting the Giants a supplemental first rounder.
by wilriv21 on Jul 3, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes literally no sense
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 3, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most teams do not want to touch Type A because the team does not want to forfeit their first round pick. The Giants jumped on Affeldt because he was a Type B and not a Type A yet the Reds reaped a supplemental round draft pick.
by wilriv21 on Jul 3, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most teams do not want to touch Type A because the team does not want to forfeit their first round pick.
Who cares? Why would you care about this? It makes no sense. Current Dodger Orlando Hudson was Type A, and he signed a very cheap deal very late in the offseason. The Diamondbacks got the picks. The Giants are not in the business of worrying about contracts. If they can get the picks, they should. It is better for a player to be Type A than Type B for the he is leaving. This isn’t even debatable.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 3, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not willing to offer Winn or Johnson arbitration.
by wilriv21 on Jul 3, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it doesn’t matter if they’re Type A or Type B. Fantastic.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jul 3, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina and Winn have no reason not to accept arbitration – Molina has done nothing but talk about how he wants to stay, and Winn will get a lot more in arbitration than he will in the FA market. And Johnson might be retiring. I don’t think we’re getting any picks this year.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 3, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Molina and Winn would prefer three-year deals somewhere else to a single year with us and I think there’s enough of a market for both of them that they’d get offers. Molina is a borderline All-Star in the NL and Winn’s a a consistent player that can play all three OF spots.
Given the choice between of something like 1/$8M and 3/$18M, it seems like players usually chose the longer term security.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jul 4, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see any reason why Winn would get more than what Abreu – who was one year younger, and is considered better by most – got last year (1 year/$5M) as a FA. In arbitration, the Giants wouldn’t even be able to offer him anything less than $6.6M. If he’s smart, he’ll accept arbitration and try his luck next year. Molina is a borderline All-Star? Among NL catchers with at least 150 PA’s, he’s 15th in wOBA. The only two who’ve been worse are Kendell, who is complete toast, and Ivan Rodriguez, who is overall better than Molina when you consider defense. Look past RBIs – Bengie Molina is one of the worst catchers in the majors. He’s also a fat, 35 y-o catcher, who could collapse at any moment. Plus, he’s been talking for a year about how he wants to stay, and how he’s upset the Giants haven’t extended his contract – why would he turn down arbitration?
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jul 4, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A) Unless they’ve got another outfielder like Holiday or Rios up their sleeve, I’d be willing to take the risk on a one-year deal for Winn at $6-7M next year. Since he can play all three positions, he’d be a terrific 4th OF and provide insurance in case Nate or Bowker go all Lewis on us.
B) I agree completely about Molina, but he nonetheless was mentioned several times as a potential all star.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jul 5, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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