Time to Option Down Howry?
by SSC24 on Jun 2, 2009 7:25 PM PDT
63 comments
Since the Giants signed Howry and Affeldt to bolster the bullpen in the offseason, I knew Howry wouldn't be very helpful to the Giants, as his numbers for the past few years had shown a decline in production. My prediction was correct. Howry is playing decent on occasion (when the situation does not call for clutch play) but when the team really needs him to get out of a jam unscathed, not only does he get hit-he gets hit bad and out of the game. He will end up destroying the Giants starters' hopes for wins and come into games in relief only to provide the exact opposite. In my humble opinion, the guy is washed up. Unlike the rest of the bullpen (Wilson, Valdez, Affeldt, Medders, Miller, Romo), Howry doesn't have a pitch that hitters are scared of. There is no place for a man like him on the Giants or any major league team, for that matter. He simply does not belong up here. I say option him down to Triple-A and leave him there the rest of the year (I doubt anyone is stupid enough to take him in a trade). This is one major risk that Sabean took during the offseason and there has been no reward-only torment. Send him down, I say, before he costs the Giants a couple dozen more games. I think I speak for the majority of Giants fans. But just to make sure, I have this poll.
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Can't
he signed a major league contract. He would have to be DFA’d, pass through waivers, then accept a AAA assignment rather than being a free agent. Not gonna happen. Besides, he hasn’t pitched that badly. Even tonight, those balls wern’t exactly scorched. Bad luck happens.
I don’t think he should be used in the highest-leverage situations, but he’s fine in the bullpen. I don’t think he’s as bad as his ERA would suggest. And tonight, it was Merkin who blew the game, Howry gave up a couple ground balls that found holes. That sort of thing will happen to everyone from time to time.
Osiris, lord of the dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
Merkin wasn’t shaking Bengie off at all, and Big Money went back to the fastball well one too many times. That 2-2 pitch to Zimmerman shoulda been a slider. In the previous AB, Johnson couldn’t even get a swing off.
Just sayin… And Howry is fine.
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No
He’s not awful, and he’s the least of our problems. He’s a decent 1 year option, and if we can flip him for something useful this trade deadline, more power to us.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I agree
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
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by Johnny Disaster on Jun 3, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Similar to the waiting period to post comments as a new member of the site, a non-Fanpost hour(or two) may do some good after a game concludes.
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Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jun 2, 2009 7:49 PM PDT reply actions
Not awful, what the fxcx
He is worse than several guys we gave up on before the season. ie; Hennessey, Correia, Tyler Walker, and as bad as one guy we let go later, Taschner. And he is being payed Orlando Hudson money! What a dumb freakin signing. Did his 6 plus era last year sent up any smoke signals? I’m glad we got rid of Misch, I hope he does not end up back in Fresno. Maybe some stupid team will take Howry off our hands at the trading deadline. In addition to the Howry situation, can we sit Bengie down for a a while and then return him to the 7th spot in the lineup? What is wrong with Ishikawa? Let Sandoval catch lefty. He is a natural lefty.
Do you do any research before you post?
Going into this game, the statistics for Giants Pitchers :
http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?…n=2009&month=0
From a FIP standpoint, Bob Howry is the 4th best pitcher on the Giants staff. Only behind Lincecum, Affeldt (already used), and Wilson (closer).
If you look at RAR, Howry is at 2.5, and the only players in the Giants bullpen with better RAR are Brian Wilson and Affeldt.
?????
1. You may wanna look at more stats than just ERA before making judgements about a player. Howry’s 08’ peripherals were still pretty good. So no, it didn’t send up any smoke signals.
2. He’s making like 2 mil. That’s about as valuable to the Giants org as the puss from one of their popped ass pimples.
3. Why are you glad we got rid of Misch? He’s a young lefty with a decent strikeout rate. He’s definitely worth keeping in Fresno, at least.
4. Ishikawa hasn’t done so well. That’s what’s wrong with him.
5. Sandoval is ambidextrous.
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‘Pus’ – as in ‘Warm bucket of pus’ or ‘The Pus Festival’.
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by Johnny Disaster on Jun 3, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Advanced Stats by Goofus
He’s making like 2 mil. That’s about as valuable to the Giants org as the puss from one of their popped ass pimples
In order to determine his true value, dive his salary by his ERApuss.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Sandoval is not catching
Because he cant even throw right now. Thats why hes playing first base and not third. His elbow (?) is messed up.
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 3, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure...
…the poster to whom you’re replying is aware that Sandoval has a hurt arm as evidenced by the “Let Sandoval catch lefty.” comment
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Would be great to think that maybe we can get something for him at the trade deadline, but it ain’t gonna happen. We are 1/3 of the way through the season and he hasn’t proven he can get guys out. Teams don’t give up players for relievers with a 1.5 whip and 5+ ERA. Every organization already has guys like that in AAA
I think Miller, Medders, and Snatchwig have pitched WAY better than expected so Howry is expendable. I honestly wouldn’t miss never seeing him in a Giants uni again…there has to be someone in AAA that we think has a future???
No, maybe he should be demoted to earlier innings duties until he gets his bearings back, but he’s NOT as bad as his ERA. Before this game, he had like a 117ish ERA+ and a 1.36 WHIP. That’s not great but it’s not DFAable or demoteable.
That said, Romo and Affeldt should be the set up guys, IMO. Howry should be put in the mop up role for awhile.
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PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I’m sorry, do you mean the same Bob Howry who had an ERA under 3.6 and a FIP under 3.8 before tonight? This is just I HATE BRIAN WILSON redux, minus the CapSlock. It’s reactionary and stupid. Howry was a fine signing, and is a fine player.
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CapSlock. I like that.
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Kevin Frandsen, come back!
This is also deserving of a
GIANTS BRASS!!!!!!!!
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PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
YES U NOW WAT GINATS BRAS MEANSS? GINAT …..nevermind
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by say hey nation on Jun 3, 2009 6:17 AM PDT up reply actions
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen, come back!
by WalrusMan on Jun 3, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whats the most important stat in baseball?
“Comments to posts” ratio. In this case 2 comments to 3 posts… grab some pine SSC24.
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Strange statistic of the day.
Whilst looking up the numbers from the bullpen on Fangraphs i saw an interesting statistic on Romo, although i’m not sure if anyone’s alreayd mentioned it. He currently holds an ERA of 27.00 (not all that suprising) & a FIP of – 2.84 (yes that’s a minus FIP). Tiny sample sizes put up strange glitches like that but i couldn’t help but find it amusing.
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His BABIP is also… 1.042 according to Fangraphs.
Interesting. I was looking at Lincecum’s FIP the other day, and I thought it was negative, turns out it was only a smudge. But that’s seriously awesome about Romo.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
Extra testicle.
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by Johnny Disaster on Jun 3, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
List of things wrong with the Giants...
Let’s see here… Bob Howry… Bob Howry… Gotta be here somewhere… Page 2? Nope. Page 3? Gotta be around here…
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
It’s way down on page 89..
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overreact much?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
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Three straight ground ball singles from a ground ball pitcher is going to happen every once in awhile. Then again one of those ground balls could also turn into a double play if hit at someone.
Merkin had a pretty bad inning as well. Of course when he uses the Felix Rodriguez style of pitching (fastball followed by a fastball followed by a fastball), one has to wonder when one of our National League west rivals is going to pluck Scott Spezio out of his crack den he currently resides to be a pinch hitter specifically for series against us.
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by WilliamVanLandingham on Jun 3, 2009 9:25 AM PDT reply actions
Howry should be an innings eater; basically send him in after Sanchez loses it in the fourth. He’s not a great pitcher, and you don’t send him in with a one-run lead and RISP, but give him 2-3 runs and I’m betting he can throw a couple innings and preserve the lead. Use him to preserve the good arms that you need when you’re in a jam.
Which Giants reliever doesn't fit this description?
Other than Affeldt and Wilson, that is.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Medders and Miller have both been great. Valdez has been fairly impressive too. If Martinez doesn’t die of the yips he’ll be fantastic. Howry is really our worst reliever IMO (which speaks to the strength of the bullpen), so he should be put in when the starter isn’t throwing well, but there is a comfortable lead, and Bochy needs to learn how to take his starter out of the game.
I don't trust pitchers who walk a man every other inning.
Medders has walked 15 guys in 22.2 innings. That’s not dependable reliever material.
Miller has walked 11 in 23 innings and allowed 3 HR (not a fluke, BTW, he’s an extreme fly baller)
Valdez has walked 8 guys in 16.2 IP, and the Giants have limited his innings in response to his legendary fragility.
It takes alot more than ~20 innings of small sample size ERA to make me ignore these command issues.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Not a believer in Papelbon, Broxton, or Krod huh? I think Medders, Miller, and Snatchwig have all pitched very well considering none of three were guaranteed to even make the team out of ST. Gotta give those guys some credit
Those guys have several years of significantly better command to coutner tha last 20 IP.
Our schlubbs do not.
Thay also, you know, strike alot guys out.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
several games in a row, Boch has had his desired “regulars” of Howry, Affeldt, and Wilson in for the 7th thru 9th. Boch loves those regular roles. And Howry was shocking me by coming through about 3X in a row. This time Howry bailed out Affeldt (after 1 walk, Jeremy gets pulled, did he look that terrible? He is fine against righties) then warmed up a second time and was lousy.
I expect Howry will be dumped or marginal by the end of the year. But until Sergio or Merkin takes that spot, it belongs to Homerun Howry (I got that off Cubbies fan site)
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Affeldt did earn his walk via three (possibly 4) bounced pitches so it certainly didn’t seem like he had it yesterday. Yesterday’s groupthink was that Howry shouldn’t have been out to start the eighth though.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
Looking at the stats
He does own a .000 AVE and a .000 OBP but his BB/K ratio is #DIV/0! and his BABIP is .000
So I think its just be bad luck, and its a matter of time before his AVE normalizes to somewhere between .001 and .999
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Who you gonna use instead?
who you gonna use instead? While Sergio and Merkin have great arms, they’re even less reliable & consistent at this stage in their careers than Howry (who at least has a track record). Plus, those balls were more the “seeing eye” variety last night, not scorched as if Howry was throwing BP.
Either Merkin or Sergio COULD develop into better versions of setup men than Howry, but they’re not there yet.
How has Sergio proven himself to be less reliable and consistent than Howry?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
He had A BAD INNING. I think that’s evidence enough!
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