In Season Giants Top 15
by caincecum on Jun 19, 2009 2:03 PM PDT
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PrintHello everyone this is essentially a post for fun just to reflect on which minor leaguers are having the best sesons in our system. It seems to me our consensus to four prospects.(Bumgarner,Posey, Alderson, Villalona) have done nothing to warrant anyone leap frogging them. It seems to me the middle of our list. Nonnan, Gillaspie haven't done enough to warrant keeping their spots whereas the back end of the top 10 or early teens. (Crawford,Roger K, Neal) have done more than enough to warrant a higher ranking. Where would you rank Zack Wheeler? Or Rafeal Rodriguez? Without further ado here is my list. Which players do you believe are overrated/underrated?
1.Bumgarner
2.Posey
3.Alderson
4.Villalona
5.Neal
6.Kieschenick
7.Wheeler
8.Pucetas
9..Sosa
10.Crawford
11. Guzman
12.Adrianza
13.English
14.Gillaspie
15 Rodriguez .
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Ok. Let me get the conversation started.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Thanks. All the rubbish that is mid-season prospect rankings should be kept together, and bound, so as to not spread the irrelevant clutter.
Mid season prospect rankings are of the same realm as trade speculation, but less interesting.
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jun 20, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions
For me, I have been surprised by two things: Noonan’s struggles and Neal’s dominance.
I think there is still hope for Noonan, but it is not looking good at the moment. He was supposed to have an “advanced” approach. Whatever happened to that?
remember who thinks it is an advanced approach. To the Giants, Bengie Molina has an advanced approach.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Molina’s was by default. Now that Pablo is ninja-swatting the baseball, Bengie is much more like his dog counterpart. Although he may be Old Yeller soon enough.
Noonan has talent, but we may have assumed that talent would just bus itself to SF at breakneck speed. He just may need to see Cal League pitching for another year for it to set in offensively.
It's always Noonan somewhere.
it does look like Noonan would have to repeat the Cal League (which wouldn’t be the worst thing for a 20 year old) unless he really gets hot and figures it out in the 2nd half.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
interestingly
there was talk before the season about him opening up in AA Conneticut if anyone else remembers. But god thinking back what I;d to to be able to not draft Culberson and Williams
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
yeah. maybe that kinda talk went to Noonan’s head.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
as for surprisiness, I voted for Noonan. I predicted a big breakout for Neal and even though he has exceeded my expectations, I am pretty floored by Noonan’s complete inability to hit. He’s not even running much anymore (how can he, if he doesn’t get on base???RIGHT?!) He’s still only 20 and can easily turn it around, but still.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions
Wheeler? Rodriguez?
Seems strange to me to be ranking players who haven’t played pro ball (as far as I know), such as Wheeler and Rodriguez. They have, as far as I can, see no record and very shaky predictive evidence.
I agree
about ranking RafRod. As of now, I’ve seen one youtube video of him hitting in practice. Besides that, the only thing we can base our opinions of him on are the scouting reports from before the signing deadline last year. That’s not very conclusive, so until he starts playing, let alone hitting, I’d keep him low on my list. Wheeler is different, though, because even though we haven’t seen him pitch as a pro yet, tons upon tons of scouts have seen him pitch in high school. We at least know what he throws, how hard he throws, what scouts think of his mechanics and makeup, etc. This adds a little projectability to him, so he’s easier to rank than Rodriguez.
Semi-proud adoptive father of Scott Barnes.
how many scouts do you think saw Rodriguez before he got a $2.5 million bonus? I’m guessing it was more than 1 or 2
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 19, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn’t say it was just one or two. I’m sure tons of scouts saw him play, but we as fans only really have access to a few of the scouting reports because Latin American scouting is a lot more secretive and less publicized than American college/HS scouting. It’s kind of hard for us to make an assessment of his talent having never seen him play, even more so with only a couple of scouting reports to go on.
Semi-proud adoptive father of Scott Barnes.
the one thing about RafRod
is that the Giants paid him $2.55M, which is more than they paid Lincecum. These guys are professional and sure, they could make a bad decision with money (Zito), but they wouldn’t hand that money out for just anybody. they had to have seen something special to do that.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
true
but also I would tend to imagine foreign prospects would be able to demand more money than domestic ones due to the fact that their free agents able to sign with a number of teams. Whereas in the draft one teams holds a players rights or options if you will the reason why these contracts aren’t even bigger is since these foregin prospects lack the polish of domestic ones which causes scouts to sometimes look into it as being projection where sometimes they will never be able to gain the polish
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
Forget about having played pro ball yet – Wheeler isn’t even on our payroll yet. I know this may be a shock to some people, but he could actually decide to not sign. I don’t believe that it’s very likely, but you never know what can happen in the mind of an 18 year old kid. They’re flakey by definition.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I don’t think he’s that flakey. the Giants drafted him for a reason, not just physical skills but his mental makeup. Really, the only reason I don’t think he signs is because his agent gets in the way, but there’s been no indication that will be the case, as of yet.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
but yeah, doing prospect lists to include guys who haven’t signed yet may be just navel gazing at this point…though it is kinda fun.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
He got drafted 6th overall
and is poised to make several million dollars as an 18-year-old. By opting not to sign and choosing to go to college instead, he could be potentially giving up all of that money. It would be really fucking stupid of him to not sign. That, and he was considered before the draft to be a very signable pick. He will sign.
Semi-proud adoptive father of Scott Barnes.
Plus
He got drafted there rather than Matzek or Turner because he’s known to be eager to sign (and reportedly regrets his early commitment to Kennesaw St.).
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I’m not saying that he won’t sign. In fact, I wrote in another thread a while back that if the Giants had had a rep in his house on draft day I think he would have signed right then. I’d put the odds of him signing within the next 4 weeks at about 99%. But, it is silly, and riles up the superstitious side of me, to rank somebody as a prospect when they’re not even signed yet. Anything can happen.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
You know who has, though? Brandon Crawford. His overall stats at Connecticut aren’t pretty, but his peripherals are actually better than at San Jose.
+1
For me Crawford’s hitting (especially for power) has been the biggest pleasant surprise (let’s not forget how big of a pitcher’s park Norwich is), especially when you consider how poorly he hit in his last year at UCLA. I would follow it up with:
2. Posey’s ability to hit for power in SJ
3. Neal’s breakout season
4. Villalona’s ability to more than hold his own at the age of 18 in A+ (he exploded in the 2nd half at Augusta last year – let’s hope we get a repeat of that this year)
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Crawford has to be the surprise of the season. He was essentially a flier as a fourth-round pick and that flier has already paid off. Hopefully he keeps it up and earns himself a cup o’ Joe by next September.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
in comparison
to his showing in Hawaian winter ball (small sample size) and college yes you could easily support the claim
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
I'll recopy my list and continue it
1. MadBum
2. Busty
3. T2
4. Wheeler
5. AnVil
6. Crawford
7. before Zod
8. Jesus
9. Kieschnick
10. Joseph
11. Martinez (is he still eligible?)
12. RafRod
13. Hector Sanchez
14. Jorge Bucardo
15. Scott Barnes
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
im not trying to jump on neone...
but at the same time how can you put wheeler above Villanona right now? I mean he’s still hitting .284 after a recent slump and still has a respectable 763 ops albeit in the california league. There both roughly the same age but I highly doubt Wheeler would be putting up equivalent numbers as a pitcher right now. The reasoning I could understand is if you saw Wheeler as an ace and then you saw Villalona as a solid regular in return.
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
The offensive requirements for first base are obscene, even more so if the guy is going to play average defense at best. Yes, AnVil is young, but he’s shown no plate discipline, no signs of improving discipline, and his power is still mostly absent in games. I considered putting him behind even Crawford, but I’m willing to give him some more time considering his upside.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
ahh
I see and think you have a very valid point. I fully expect Villalona to get hotter in the second half similar to last season but yes I agree he is on pace to walk the same amount of times as last season (18) which is very underwhelming. I’m beginning to think he may have the “fernando martinez effect” in the since that Villalona puts up pedestrian numbers especially for a 1b and we point to his age and scream how much older the competition is. My to you…..and everyone else is…….what type of numbers do you expect him to post the rest of the season? I see him finishing with a line around. 290/340/500 a bit optomistic yes but I don’t think it’s out of the question at all.
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
I still don’t see why you put WHEELER in at 4 though….
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I knw...
this is the most cliche response ever but. Everyone has their own perception of a players ceiling is and also what they value. Perhaps he see’s Wheeler as a 1-2 and Villalona as a league average 1b. i personally knocked Crawford way down due to his obscene k rate
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
I don’t know, I just like him, even though I was upset we grabbed him instead of Matzek.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Neal
is definitively the most surprising
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by i love sports101 on Jun 19, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions
My question is...
How do we rank compared to other prospects throughout the league??
Definitely the best system in the NL West.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
im not trying to pick on you I swear
but given Baltimore graduating Wieters and Oakland Anderson,Cahill,Cunninghman,Mazzaro I would say top 3 potentially by the end of the season
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
No worries, I’m a big boy. I would agree, that’s why I went with around 5th. Maybe around 3rd would have been better, but it’s all the same to me at that point.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Slightly relatedly....
Baseball America’s Hot Sheet and Hot Sheet chat were all over Baby Gs this week. Neal finally got some love, Posey got positively spooned, and even Pucetas was deemed useful.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
AAA players excluded (Except Pucetas lol)
1. Bumgarner
2. Buster Olny… Posey
3. Alderson
4. Villalona
5. Neal
6. Kieschnick
7. Craig Clark
8. Sosa
9. Crawford
10. Dan Otero
11. Pucetas
12. Noonan
13. Ben Snyder
14. Eddy Martinez-Estieve
15. Gillaspie
Only when I am eliminated by MIke Krukow will my life's work be complete
Craig Clark and Dan Otero in the top 10 seems a little crazy. As does EME in the top 15. 26 year olds in AA aren’t really prospects.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Tentative top 15 for me
1) Madison Bumgarner LHP
2) Buster Posey C
3) Angel Villalona 1B
4) Tim Alderson RHP
5) Zack Wheeler RHP
6) Thomas Neal OF
7) Brandon Crawford SS
8) Rafael Rodriguez OF
9) Roger Kieschnick OF
10) Henry Sosa RHP
11) Thommy Joseph C/1B
12) Conor Gillaspie 3B
13) Scott Barnes LHP
14) Ehire Adrianza SS
15) Kevin Pucetas RHP
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Placement of Rodriguez, Wheeler, and Joseph is largely arbitrary, more so than the rest of it, etc. etc.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I’m also fond of Quirarte, but he’s struggled since his strong April so I can’t justify ranking him.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Where does everyone see Neal being right now?
Top 150 prospect?
100?
75?
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
probably top 100. I think a lot people would like to see him do it over a more extended stretch than 2.5 months, but he was solid last year, has the physical tools and he’s certainly putting up premier numbers to enter the conversation.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Neal shouldn’t be surprising to anyone who has followed the Giants system closely the past couple of years. He is a guy who had a lot of talent, and who performed well last year at Augusta after what was basically a year layoff from baseball due to injury. He probably wasn’t even in tip top shape last year and did pretty well in Augusta at 20. And now he’s starting to turn his tools into skills.
Frankly I’m surprised by Gillaspie’s lack of power, especially in a hitter friendly league like the Cal League. 1 HR (a game I was present for) is really disappointing, especially for a prospect who has what is considered to be an advanced approach and feel for hitting coming out of 3 seasons of college ball. Noonan is surprising but less so because he’s young, and I expect him to struggle more. But Gillaspie has me fooled, especially since he has a very good eye at the plate and generally makes good contact.
there’s been a Thomas Neal discussion going on for a few days over at Minorleagueball, which is a great site, btw.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 7:03 PM PDT reply actions
Except that Villalona isn’t fat. He’s got a big butt and thighs, but that’s where you want a power hitter to be thick.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 19, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm putting money...
That Chris Dominguez figures into the Top 15, if not by the end of the season then by the end of winter ball.
That batting practice video on MLB.com has me ready to nickname him Sentinel. It would just be cliche to say “he’s a beast” after watching it.
It's always Noonan somewhere.
Thomas Neal is a 4th OF at best.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
AT BEST!!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
please....explain
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
RAF-ROD SIGHTING
ED HARDY LOL!!!
"/>
waiting for 2011....
Dude is tall.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Sad side to this
A few years ago, Jesse Foppert would have been at or near the top of the list. He seems to have disappeared from the Defenders’ roster in recent days without any notice.
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