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Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

Courtesy of mlbtr. He was a fine Giant and I wish him all the best.

4 months ago Eyegore daveinexile 46 comments 0 recs  | 

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Hmm…what a shame.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen, come back!

by WalrusMan on Jun 19, 2009 12:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

At least he never defiled himself by playing a regular season game for the Evils!

Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Jun 19, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He sure tried, though. It wasn't his choice that he didn't play for the stinking dodgers.

He gets no moral credit for an attempted crime that failed.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Jun 20, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But like most things Estes tried they did not end up any were near they way they were envisioned. Rather fitting i think.

Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Jun 20, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Link failure in header.

But here is the source.

Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Jun 19, 2009 12:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The NL West tour is over!

by Natto on Jun 19, 2009 12:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

you read my mind…

Proud parent of future rookie of the year, Gerald Posey!

by GiantsFanInExile on Jun 19, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He took the Pads money. That has to count for something.

The Pads radio honks thought they had something with any good start from Shawn.

Fools.

It's always Noonan somewhere.

by sectionop92 on Jun 20, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This saddens me

He was my first favorite player. He’s also the reason 55 is my favorite number. At least Tim carries the torch now, both with the number and my favorite player!

There was nothing so beautiful as a Shawn Estes curveball.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Jun 19, 2009 1:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It was a beautiful curve, but umps treated it like an ugly baby – they just didn’t know what to do with it.

“Jeez, um that could have been a strike but I don’t know….”

“BALL four!”

-- Born Yesterday

by thatdog on Jun 19, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good riddance Shawn Estes

A good Giant? Did everyone conveniently forget that move in the 2000 playoffs when he injured his ankle and hopped off of second base and was tagged out? Not to mention the fact that he was pitching so badly in that game that I was glad he was injured. If we had gamers like Aaron Rowand on the team at that time Shawnie would have been laid out in the locker room.

Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!

by rxmeister on Jun 19, 2009 1:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Rowand can make a house call this season, little retroactive justice.

ding dong (door opens)
Estes: May I help y-oof!
thud

Proud parent of future rookie of the year, Gerald Posey!

by GiantsFanInExile on Jun 19, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, and Mr. Kent was all sweetness, light and forgiveness.

Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Jun 20, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also remember his temper tantrum when he was pulled from the elimination game near the end of the 2001 season.

Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)

by antinous on Jun 19, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was the game that Bonds broke McGwire’s single season homer record. Estes gave up like 5 in the first inning (w/o finishing it) and Bonds did his best to bring them back, which they did, but the team eventually lost lost and were eliminated.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN200110050.shtml

Bonds stands alone.

Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants

by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

.2 IP.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Jun 19, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

his two post season starts with the Giants consisted of 6 innings total, allowing 7 earned runs. Put that with his performance in that Bonds’ game, and you have quite a clutch performer. Yes, I remember him fondly.

Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!

by rxmeister on Jun 19, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m pretty sure Shawn Estes raped rxmeister’s mother or something. Geez.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.

by jcb9 on Jun 19, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, she finally admitted to me that it was consensual. This guy was horrible in clutch situations, and why should I say nice things because he’s retiring? Nobody forgives Jose Cruz Jr. for that dropped fly ball in 2003, so why all this Estes love? This guy played a direct role in two different years where we might have won a World Series, and in my mind he doesn’t get a pass. If he doesn’t hop off at second base, we probably win that series with the Mets, and we led the NL in wins that year, so perhaps we go to the World Series. Then the following year, he does the “knocked out in the first inning routine” and costs us a playoff berth in a year where Barry Bonds is breaking the HR record. In fact he ruined that very game. I mean we lost 11-10!! Ya think we win that game if he pitches decently? How can you enjoy Barry breaking the record if you get eliminated that same night? I sure would have liked to see Barry doing his thing in the playoffs that year. So raped my mom? No. Possibly costing all of us a chance to see a World Championship in our lifetimes? Yes. Shawn Estes, FUCK YOU!!

Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!

by rxmeister on Jun 20, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

jcb is just worried about losing his McC rage title

… or jealous of a great rage rant.

co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.

by kennv on Jun 20, 2009 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a game of failure there is no doubt in my mind that slide into 2nd moment is Estes greatest failure. Then the ’97 run into the post season does not happen without Estes.

He throw 200 innings of "not too bad ball" seasons were the Giants needed 19 starts from Chris Brock and 14 GS from a young Nathan. The ’99 year would not have been as interesting (close to contention) without Estes. Even the 2000 season he took the ball enough times the Giants only had only 1 GS from outside of their 6 starters.

He would truly would be a BOR guy on this staff (2009). No, they shouldn’t build a statue to him but in an era were the Staff was usual hoping to be just good enough ( if we were lucky) he did well.

However to this day I feel simmalarly towards Bob Kneeper as you seem to towards Estes so carry on.

Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Jun 20, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'm pretty much with you.

A couple good seasons, but mostly many years of unfulfilled potential, not at all helped by his fragile psychological makeup. And, of course, he becomes a crumple zone in a tough situation. I wish him well with whatever his next chapters are, but he isn’t on my own personal Giants Mt. Rushmore.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Jun 20, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember when he was hammered and stole a policeman’s bicycle in Los Gatos. Ah…good times!

by m34josh on Jun 19, 2009 2:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Along those lines

In April 2005, in an early season baseball game a relief pitcher on the Giants ripped two tendons in his hamstring, yet got over there and covered first base to get the final out and earn a save. He then went on the DL for three months. That player was only the most hated player in recent Giants’ history, a pitcher by the name of Armando Benitez. Yet here we have a guy who in a FREAKING PLAYOFF GAME, turns his ankle going into second and limps off the bag, allowing himself to be tagged out. Yet someone just called him a “good Giant.” No wonder the Mets traded for him a couple of years later. They wanted to thank him for enabling them to go on to the World Series in a year that it should have been the Giants.

Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!

by rxmeister on Jun 19, 2009 2:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

so a guy makes one mistake

and it invalidates his entire career? wow. i just don’t have that much hate for players I guess.

And don’t even start to compare Estes with Benitez. Benitez was an asshole from the beginning he put on a uniform, and did nothing to earn any part of his salary. At least Estes won 19 games one season, and allowed us to like him whilst doing so.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Jun 19, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

a mistake of that magnitude? Yes, it invalidates his entire Giants’ career in my mind. Ever hear of Fred Merkle? I know you’re not 100 years old, but what is he remembered for? His timely hitting?

Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!

by rxmeister on Jun 19, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But seriously...

it wasn’t a Jose Cruz Jr type of play…it was the third inning of a game they were winning 2-1. Yeah, it was dumb, and maybe they could have gotten a run or two out of it, but I don’t see how that was bad enough that it should invalidate his career.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Jun 19, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of this has been said already, but Shawn Estes has always been a bittersweet for me. He had such potential, and he got off to SUCH a good start for the team in 1996-1997. Even then if you looked closely you could see the seeds of future problems – 100 walks in 1997. But at the time you didn’t want to see that, you wanted to see the 3.18 ERA, the couple of complete game two-hitters, the 181 strike outs. Back in the mid-to-late 90s, the Giants were mostly teams who lived on hitting, Estes’s start as a Giant was pretty thrilling. Now that we have Lincecum and Cain and all that minor league pitching, this is hard to remember, but in 1997, the Giants’ three most recent opening day starters were Mark Gardner, Mark Leiter, and Terry Mulholland.

And, in 1997, it had been nearly a decade since the Giants had made the playoffs at all. Shawn Estes was a big part of that team, and even if he never did a single thing right the rest of his career, I would remember him fondly for that. He had solid years for contending teams in 2000 and 2001, too.

I was certain he would be the first Giants pitcher in my lifetime to pitch a no-hitter.

And yeah, his curveball was beautiful. Throughout his tenure as a Giant, even the bad years, I always went to his starts if I could because I loved that curveball.

One of those games I went to was the one in 2001 where the Giants lost 1-0 in 18 innings to the Arizona Diamondbacks. That was a miserable loss in many ways – especially since the Giants finished just a couple games behind Arizona that year, and Arizona went on to win the World Series – but it’s also a fond memory of mine, and Shawn pitched great that day.

He never became a star after 1997, of course. He had a couple more okay years with the Giants, a couple poor years, and after he left the team he quickly became a joke. Like the guy the Giants traded for him (Salomon Torres), he was a bit of a headcase. I’m sad his career didn’t work out the way I wanted it to – but still, for me at least, the good outweighs the bad, and thus I say thanks for the good times, Shawn, and I roll my eyes at rxmeister’s cranky hyperbole.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.

by jcb9 on Jun 19, 2009 4:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

All in all being able to play pro ball at a high level for ever a decade that quite an achivement. He should never be a Hall of Very Good candidate but he was able to do more than 99.9% . And unlike resent Giants farm hand, McClain, he actually had some moments in the sun on the big stage.

Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Jun 20, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He says he has NOT retired

The evil empire just won’t give him his release

Thing A

"Well I seriously thought he was just tanned." -Nuck Chorris

by sam23 on Jun 19, 2009 4:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What is this? The Evil Empire being Evil? Selig will you stop trying to extort con hustle some random municipality out of a few thousand dollars long enough to go spank the Evils for the betterment of the game?

Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Jun 20, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was a good Giant. Thank you for providing me with one of my favorite memories at Phone Book Park where you lead the Giants to a 16-0 win over the Expos. Shawn hit a grand slam AND threw a shutout, and Barry hit probably the farthest ball he ever hit into the cove.

by Hobbes2d on Jun 19, 2009 6:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe it was 18-0, and not surprisingly it was a game played in May against the Montreal Expos. If it was a September game with pennant implications against the Dodgers, he would have been on the opposite side of that score. Have I made my stance on Shawn Estes clear yet?

Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!

by rxmeister on Jun 20, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was curious as to whether this would stand up to scrutiny, so I checked info from seasons where Estes was a Giant and the team was in contention up until the end or close to it – 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2001. I looked starting with the beginning of September, and going until either the season ended or the Giants were eliminiated. Here’s what I found:

1997: 5 starts
Estes’s record: 1-1
Team’s record in Estes’s starts: 4-1
Estes’s ERA: 3.49

1998: 5 starts
Estes’s record: 0-3
Teams’ record in Estes’s starts: 1-4
Estes’s ERA: 8.60

2000: 6 starts
Estes’s record: 3-2
Team’s record in Estes’s starts: 4-2
Estes’s ERA: 4.46

2001: 2 starts
Estes’s record: 1-0
Team’s record in Estes’s starts: 1-1
Estes’s ERA: 1.38

In all, he made 18 starts in pennant runs pre-elimination. He went 5-6 in these starts, while the team’s record was 10-8 when he was starting. His combined ERA was 4.73.

By comparison, his record as a Giant was 64-50. His ERA as a Giant was 4.25.

So, in general, he did slightly worse than average in stretch runs. Given the wear and tear of the season, I would guess it’s typical for starting pitchers to perform slightly worse than usual in September, but I’m sure STATS people will correct me on that if I’m wrong.

In 1997 and 2000, he performed about as well down the stretch run as he did for the season as a whole. In 2001 (in just two starts), he performed significantly better. In 1998 – his worst season as a Giant generally – he performed much worse. Actually, other than 1998, he did quite well overall down the stretch – combining 1997, 2000, and 2001, he went 5-3 with a 3.59 ERA.

He did not pitch well in the postseason. Then again, he only ever had two postseason starts, and in those two series, the Giants didn’t do well in general – their combined record was 1-6.

In any case, I don’t see a lot of evidence that he was a different pitcher in pennant races than he was he rest of the year.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.

by jcb9 on Jun 20, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

None of which is to say, mind you, that he was great in these situations. It’s just that he was pretty much the same guy – a talented but flawed pitcher who was equally capable of being dominant or being shelled on any given occasion.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.

by jcb9 on Jun 20, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and also, if you look at 1997, 2000, and 2001, the team’s combined record in his starts was 9-4.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.

by jcb9 on Jun 20, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

2001 is off

13.2 IP, 7 ER (slightly over 4.50 ERA)

You forgot the start in the Bonds 71/72 game.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.

by groug on Jun 20, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought they were eliminated the day before that – am I misremembering?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.

by jcb9 on Jun 20, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are

That was the day they were knocked out.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.

by groug on Jun 20, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, okay.

That does change things somewhat, because that was a truly wretched start.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.

by jcb9 on Jun 20, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

good job of doing the research I am always too lazy to do. Maybe it wasn’t as dramatic as I remember it, but it’s still there.

Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!

by rxmeister on Jun 21, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right

by Giant among Angels on Jun 20, 2009 9:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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