McCovey Chronicles: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Sounder At Heart for Seattle Sounders Fans!

Cain v. Lincecum

Who are you rooting for more in the Cy Young chase?  Or even the chase to start the All- Star game.  Answer both and don't take the easy way out and say either one is fine with you.  Think of a logical answer for why you would support on (ie Lincecum would get his second Cy Young in a row or chance to redeam his failed attempt to start last year's allstar game/ Cain is a first timer and the Giants would have an amazing young set of competative duelers for the future - plus Cain is now worth more for those TRADE CAIN guys). 

Let's look at the Stats:

Cain - W-L 9-1

  • ERA 2.39
  • K 68
  • Walks 34
  • WHIP 1.26
  • Lincecum - W-L 6-1

  • ERA 2.66
  • K 103
  • Walks 26
  • WHIP 1.17
  •  

    All the real stat guys can feel free to add their other information, but I am sticking with the basics.  Who are you rooting for Giant Fan?

    This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

    0 recs  |  Comment 80 comments

    Story-email Email Printer Print

    Comments

    Display:

    They’re both awesome. There is no need to compare them. The end.

    Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
    PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

    by jponry on Jun 17, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    +1

    Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

    by shikantaza on Jun 17, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    +1

    No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball

    by Skaldheim on Jun 17, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    So young, yet so wise.

    Krazy Krab despised in the 20th century and beloved in the 21st century. Hey it only took over 20 years, so don't give up hope.

    by timmeh on Jun 18, 2009 4:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Indeed. Way to put that Jesuit education to good use.

    Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
    When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

    by cornball on Jun 18, 2009 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    On the other hand...

    Stake-less debate is what fanship is all about. One of the downsides of the Internet age is that all arguments have to be backed up not just statistically, but with SABR-friendly statistics.

    Bring out the barstool! I’m going with Timmeh!

    "[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
    - Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002

    by achiappanza on Jun 19, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Aye.

    "Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean

    by Smotheredinhugs on Jun 19, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    the guy who won it last year had an even worse offense.

    Thing A

    by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Our offense is worse this year..

    Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2011 Opening Day starting SS!

    by Azmanz on Jun 17, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    our pitching is better

    by wilriv21 on Jun 17, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Correct,

    but that wasn’t the argument.

    Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2011 Opening Day starting SS!

    by Azmanz on Jun 17, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Maybe he was just trying to make you feel better.

    Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.

    by Johnny Disaster on Jun 18, 2009 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I could give a shit less who starts the All Star game and the Cy Young Award is not really worth thinking about until much later in the year

    by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 17, 2009 3:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    me wants to know who starts the first game of World Series

    by wilriv21 on Jun 17, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    This.

    No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball

    by Skaldheim on Jun 17, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    banned

    I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..

    by lmaozedong on Jun 17, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    >:(

    Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

    by rotorueter on Jun 17, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Oh no u didnt

    The artist formerly known as Set-up man

    by CB30 on Jun 17, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    If the question was who starts and loses the first and last game of this year world series, this would be appropriate

    Minor White > Ansel Adams

    by say hey nation on Jun 18, 2009 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I hope Cain wins the Cy Young so we can TRADEHIM4MOARBATZ

    Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

    by rotorueter on Jun 17, 2009 3:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    Cain right now, he has a better ERA and better record and that’s all you need to win it. Just like in the AL last year Halladay should have won it but Cliff lee won it because he had more wins and a better ERA, but anyone who pitches 9 CG in on year should win it hands down.

    by ro128487 on Jun 17, 2009 4:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    Lee also had a higher ERA+ 175 to 154 for Doc.

    Bonds stands alone.

    Neal before Zod!
    Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants

    by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 17, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    you mean which is a better hitter?

    Answer: both better than several regulars in this lineup.

    Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."

    There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...

    by natteringnabob on Jun 17, 2009 4:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    I don't want either to pitch in the All-star game.

    I hope Cain pitches the Saturday (before the game) and Lincecum on Sunday so the manager won’t be tempted to use them.

    Noonan. Nooooonan!

    by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jun 17, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    True, but Cain’s had a better year to date.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Well, maybe not anymore, but it was true like 2 weeks ago.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    He needs to put on a towel

    "Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?" / Adopted brother of the AnVil

    by SoFa King Mike on Jun 18, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    A couple weeks ago there was a very reasonable argument that Cain had outperformed Lincecum.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Only if you go by W/L, which you shouldn’t.

    Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.

    :-(

    by Cookyman on Jun 18, 2009 6:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I don’t think anyone goes by W/L anymore. Even the people way behind the curve in stat stuff have gotten past that point. Cain had been much more effective in stopping runners from crossing home plate. Less runs for the other team = more winning for the Giants.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    that's luck

    and he probably won’t keep up his 88% LOB percentage. Once that drops down back to what he normally puts up, nobody will be able to say that anymore.

    by superk1ng on Jun 18, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Ah yes, because Fangraphs says we should use it, it must be right. All snarkiness aside, FIP only takes 3 variables into account, and dismissing all other variables as simply “luck” or “out of the pitchers control” is overstepping our knowledge on the subject. Cain’s situational pitching (strand rate) was one variable that directly lead to preventing runs and thus helping the Giants win more games. Something like FIP gives us an indication of what to expect when all those extraneous variables normalize in a large sample, and tell us we should expect Lincecum to be the better performer when all is said and done. To start this season, though, Cain had the better results. I’ll give you that Lincecum has now caught up to Cain.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I didn’t link you to FIP

    by superk1ng on Jun 18, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Win values are FIP based.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I know, I misread your reply

    by superk1ng on Jun 18, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    No problem. I think we mostly agree on the issue anyways, Lincecum is the better pitcher, and the extraneous variables are already beginning to regress to their expected mean. By the end of the season, the likely case is Lincecum’s season will be significantly superior to Cain’s. Cain had a great, but unsustainable start to the season, and he deserves some amount of credit for it because it helped the Giants win games.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    His situational pitching was mostly due to luck too. Notice that his K/BB numbers are actually much better with nobody on. The main reason for his crazy high strand rate is his .155 BABIP with runners on base, and .106 BABIP with RISP (compared to .356 with the bases empty). Pitchers can affect their BABIP to a small extent, but any pitcher who posts a .106 BABIP has enjoyed a tremendous amount of luck.

    Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.

    :-(

    by Cookyman on Jun 18, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I don’t think we have enough evidence to conclude it’s luck. In small sample sizes it’s more than reasonable to say a pitcher has a decent amount of control over what happens – good pitches will affect BABIP. Once you start getting big samples, it’s a non-issue because the “goodness of the pitch” let’s call it, will normalize. To conclude this was all luck is to assume we know more about what happened then we actually do.

    I’ve read the study on pitchers and BABIP, and I’ve noticed that most fans who enjoy statistics have come to conclusions, based on this study, that are stronger than the data support. Pitchers BABIP regressing to some mean that’s very close to .300 != pitchers have no control over the outcome of a ball put in play.

    That said, give us a full season of data and all this is a non-issue. Gotta love large sample sizes.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Strawman
    To conclude this was all luck is to assume we know more about what happened then we actually do.

    I never said it was all luck. I said it was mostly luck. In such small sample sizes, BABIP has a lot more to do with the hitters, defense, and yes – luck (the "goodness of the pitch" can’t really affect whether a solid grounder will find a hole or not) than it has to do with pitching.

    Pitchers BABIP regressing to some mean that’s very close to .300 != pitchers have no control over the outcome of a ball put in play.

    I specifically mentioned that pitchers do have some control over their BABIP, just not as much as hitters, fielders, and random chance do. Also, not affecting BABIP doesn’t mean not affecting balls in play. Pitchers have control over how fly balls/ ground balls they allow, which directly affects the number of XBH they allow. No one has ever doubted that.

    Once you start getting big samples, it’s a non-issue because the "goodness of the pitch" let’s call it, will normalize.

    Actually this isn’t true. Why would it normalize? Good pitchers throw more good pitches than bad pitchers, so, if a low BABIP were really just a result of good pitches, good pitchers would consitently have lower BABIP than bad pitchers. That’s not the case, not even close. BABIP has reletively very little to do with the goodness of the pitch

    Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.

    :-(

    by Cookyman on Jun 19, 2009 4:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    “BABIP has reletively very little to do with the goodness of the pitch”

    Show me a single place where this has been studied.

    “Good pitchers throw more good pitches than bad pitchers, so, if a low BABIP were really just a result of good pitches, good pitchers would consitently have lower BABIP than bad pitchers.”

    Well, this very well could be the case, and the variance is just incredibly small. Essentially it’s saying in large samples it regresses to the mean.

    “I specifically mentioned that pitchers do have some control over their BABIP, just not as much as hitters, fielders, and random chance do.”

    The point is in an individual case, with a small sample caveat, we don’t have the data to actually break up who was responsible for what. It’s useful to assume what holds true in large samples is true here, but that doesn’t mean it’s completely accurate in all cases. The work has been done to study what happens in a large sample across pitchers on average, but in the specific case I’m talking about, we really don’t have any data to go on to suggest how we should break up the credit.

    “the “goodness of the pitch” can’t really affect whether a solid grounder will find a hole or not"

    Agree here of course, but the point is the pitcher may have induced a number of weak popups or not so solid ground balls or any other situation that resulted in an easy out. These things regress to some mean over time, but can certainly be a major factor in a small time period. Also, we have no idea how the timing of these factors worked. As you pointed out, Cain’s K/BB with RISP was lower than it was without RISP, but do we know the timing of the K’s and BB’s? A K with a runner on third and one out is going to be a big at bat that decreases their chance of scoring by a lot. It may be that he only issued walks when there was an empty base. It may be bases were loaded with 1 out and there was a strikeout and then an infield fly or other poorly hit easy out. A few situations like this can skew the results from a small sample size.

    We don’t have data available to study all these possible factors that I’m aware of. Until we do, we’re making assumptions based on what happens in large samples. There will be cases that fit these assumptions, and cases that don’t, and it may be that Cain’s overall numbers really were enhanced by some combination of just luck and defense, but we don’t have the evidence to conclude that for sure. When all the extraneous variables (which we don’t even know how many there might be) regress to their mean, then we can be confident in our conclusion.

    “Good pitchers throw more good pitches than bad pitchers, so, if a low BABIP were really just a result of good pitches, good pitchers would consitently have lower BABIP than bad pitchers.”

    There seems to be some evidence they do, but the variance is very small. Mostly, though, it should result in more K’s, less BB’s, less HR’s, and maybe a better batted ball profile. That’s not to say over the course of 50 PA, a few times when a guy would have struck out they make a little bit of contact and hit into an easy out.

    My overall point is we don’t really have good data to support making solid conclusions in a small sample. The truth is we don’t know exactly what happened and who did/was responsible for what. How much of Cain’s situational pitching, over the first couple months of the season, was because of his pitching, and how much because of defense and luck? I can’t fault you for assuming what he did was what happens on average, I just urge you to be open to the fact that we don’t actually know how all these factors played out.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 19, 2009 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I don’t see how you disproved my claim that, if good pitches = low BABIP, good pitchers should have low BABIP. I get your point about the sample size, but still, if the most unhittable pitchers of the past 20 years – Johnson, Clemens, Martinez, Maddox, etc. all had BABIP at or slightly below the league average, I think we can safely determine that, once the ball is put into play, how good the pitch was has little affect on whether or not it will fall for a hit.

    Now, obviously there could be exceptions. Have a pitcher throw a bowling ball at 120 MPH, and I’m sure that not many balls in play will end up as hits. And in Cain’s case, it’s certainly possible that his BABIP is partially a result of hitters just barely making contact, shattering their bats, etc. If his BABIP were .250, I’d willing to assume that it might have had nothing to do with luck. But when someone posts a BABIP that’s that much lower than anyone – including much, much, better pitchers, has ever managed to sustain, you have to assume that it had to do with luck.

    Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.

    :-(

    by Cookyman on Jun 19, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    This is the correct answer.

    Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

    by Aadik on Jun 18, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    /awaits dissertation from sharksrog

    GROUGTHINK ALERT
    Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.

    by groug on Jun 17, 2009 4:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    of course there is need to compare

    Thats what baseball is all about, that is why they keep stats. I wish Timmy could turn it up in the 8th and 9th inning ala a young Juan Marichal. If Tim fades a bit, the vote wont be split and maybe Cain will have a chance to have a two young cy young aces staff.

    by bradleybear on Jun 17, 2009 5:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    I’m rooting for the one who is a Giant.

    by Natto on Jun 17, 2009 7:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    We can support both and still discuss which is better... this isn't little league

    And Lincecum’s been better. I don’t really think it’s a question.

    by kingofthacove on Jun 17, 2009 9:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    Lincecum is the better overall pitcher but Cainer will always be my favorite. Luckily we have both of them.

    Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
    BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."

    by BrianBokake on Jun 17, 2009 11:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

    by howtheyscored on Jun 17, 2009 11:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    Both

    I’d be happy with either.

    co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
    Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.

    by kennv on Jun 18, 2009 6:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    can I interest you in neither

    with Nick Johnson and Dan Uggla in the dugout instead? GITRDONE

    Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."

    There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...

    by natteringnabob on Jun 18, 2009 6:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Lincecum is much better.

    /goes on to read fanpost

    Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.

    :-(

    by Cookyman on Jun 18, 2009 6:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    This isnt a question of moving one out of town

    Or disrespecting one. This is just based on who is performing better this year to date. It really is a simple question. And do you care who wins? If you dont care and you would just like to see it be a Giant, say that. That is fine. I was just curious.

    I am a Cain fan. I love what Tim does. I think it is unbelievable. But Cain pitches the “right way” and I have felt bad for him the last few years getting so many 1-0 losses. Im rooting for him because I truly think he bleeds Black and Orange. But if you guys want someone else, that is fine. Just wanted to see opinions.

    by gimpsta7 on Jun 18, 2009 6:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    Tim pitches the “wrong way”?

    by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 18, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Tim is an unconventional pitcher who has a unique style that no one has seen before. Cain is that tough, Nolan Ryan-type pitcher that you have seen throughout baseball history. That is what I meant. Few people can succeed like Timmy. Cain is what you try to teach kids when you see the gift. Tim is a special kid taught by his dad in a unique style. I thought he would get hurt when I first saw it, like most people I realize I just didn’t understand the mechanics of his motion. Cain will always be a favorite of mine, and saying someone does something the “right way” doesn’t mean someone has to do something the wrong way.

    by gimpsta7 on Jun 18, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    few people can succeed like cain

    Minor White > Ansel Adams

    by say hey nation on Jun 18, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Nolan-Ryan type pitcher?

    There’ve only been a handful of pitchers like that…

    Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

    If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.

    GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!

    by baetown415 on Jun 18, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I’m aware of that. That is why I said it. That is why I love Cain so much. That makes my entire point. Thank you

    by gimpsta7 on Jun 18, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Stat heads help!

    Which of the two have the more unhittable pitch?

    It seems like Cain gets a ton of swing throughs on his fastball, but Timmy’s change up is filthy.

    by Fresburg on Jun 18, 2009 7:36 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    Fangraph’s pitch type linear weights says that Linecum’s changeup is amazingly good. It’s ranked, by runs per 100 pitches, as the third best changeup in baseball. Oddly enough, Braden Looper and Kenshin Kawakami are #1-2 for changeups.

    by xanthan on Jun 18, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Fastball swing and miss %‘s don’t compare to offspeed pitches swing and miss %’s, though. So if your argument is who gets more swingthroughs, a good changeup will always get more than a good fastball.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Good point, so who has the better fastball?

    by Fresburg on Jun 18, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I tried to convince my cousin that while Timmy throws faster, Cain throws harder.

    Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
    You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...

    by ThrillisGone22 on Jun 18, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I don’t know anything about the math behind these stats, so take them with a grain of salt, but according to Fangraphs, Cain’s fastball has a much higher value this year, while Lincecum’s was much higher last year. Last year Lincecum got almost twice as much value from his fastball as Cain ever did, but Cain has consistently put up solid numbers that were much better than Lincecum this year and his rookie year.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Cain’s fastball has always gotten more swings and misses, even though Lincecum throws harder. Lincecum’s Change/Curve combo, on the other hand, is probably the best in baseball.

    Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.

    :-(

    by Cookyman on Jun 18, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    What about called strikes? And ball %? Do fangraphs or baseball-reference or some other awesome site have these data for individuals?

    And for the record, Lincecum is the best pitcher in the history of baseball, so that makes sense. :)

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I'm just happy we have both these guys instead of Rios & Fielder

    "Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?" / Adopted brother of the AnVil

    by SoFa King Mike on Jun 18, 2009 12:15 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

    Right on, right on

    Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

    If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.

    GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!

    by baetown415 on Jun 18, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Nicely put

    Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
    Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right

    by Giant among Angels on Jun 18, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Ummmmmm

    I think Lincecum is a lil better than Cain

    Oakland Raiders Fan
    Golden State Warriors Fan
    San Francisco Giants Fan
    San Jose Sharks Fan
    MMA Fan
    USC Trojan Fan

    by i love sports101 on Jun 19, 2009 10:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    Lincecum>Cain. A few starts ago, I would have said Lincecum was better. But Cain’s been lucky, and you really have to look at the K/BB to see why Lincecum is so much better. Cain may be 9-1, but he has gotten a LOT of run support this year, and Lincecum clearly has better stuff and better command to be posting 40 more K’s and 8 few BB’s.

    by quincy0191 on Jun 20, 2009 1:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    Sorry, I would have said CAIN was better.

    Also, as many people have said, this is pointless; let’s enjoy Cain’s dominance while it lasts, because he is a great pitcher, but he’s not this great (or is he….).

    by quincy0191 on Jun 20, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

    I just can’t wait until we have a 1-2-3 of Lincecum, Bumgarner, and Cain.

    With Zito and T2 holding down the 4 and 5 spots.

    by Suckabus on Jun 23, 2009 11:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

    Comments For This Post Are Closed


    User Tools

    Welcome to the SB Nation blog about San Francisco Giants.
    Start posting about the Giants »

    Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

    FanPosts

    Community blog posts and discussion.

    Recommended FanPosts

    Timgoodavatar_small
    Tim's misdemeanor charges have been dropped
    Daisy_small
    Human after all (Timmy)
    Lincecum_small
    Lukewarm Stove: The Beginning
    Lincecum_small
    McCovey Awards: Outstanding Newcomer
    Lincecum_small
    McCovey Awards IV

    Recent FanPosts

    Hatoyama-southpark_small
    Which Old, Declining outfielder would you like?
    Small
    Who Should The Giants Acquire to Play OF In 2010?
    Small
    Time for a Semi-Rebuild?
    Small
    A REAL realistic view of Giants 2010
    Olds1_small
    Who will be behind the dish?
    Small
    Kevin Kouzmanoff: Cheap Power Upgrade
    Lincecum_small
    McCovey Awards: Best Non-gameday Image
    Small
    handful of "puzzle piece" options

    + New FanPost All FanPosts >

    SPONSORS


    Overlord

    174246766_ea2fd78204_small Grant

    Minions

    Fawlty_small WalrusMan

    Dog2_small kenshin1

    Lincecum_small Natto

    Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

    Goofus_small Goofus

    Det_7193_small jponry

    Minor League Guru

    Small steve S