A Necessary Trade (AKA: How to Pay for a Kia and Drive Home a Lexus)
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 9:38 AM PDT
168 comments
Preface: Rosterbation is extremely boring and utterly pointless. We have no idea about player availability and what the potential trading partner is demanding in return. Therefore, I am not going to propose any specifics.
Emmanuel is having an awful year. A really awful year. A Neifi Perez says "hello" kind of year. If he doesn't change his current rate stats he will be worth -2 wins below replacement over the entire season (or -1.2 over the remaining games). Now the good news: Since Burriss sucks more than a Heidi Fleiss escort (yay for dated pop-culture references!), replacing him with an average player results in a huge swing for the Giants.
Here is a list of 2nd baseman who are in +/- .3 wins of essentially a league average player right now (from best to worst).
Acquiring any one of these players would essentially add 2 wins to the Giants season total. That's huge! For perspective, if the Giants were to trade the entire farm system to Milwaukee for Ryan Braun (1 of the 3 most valuable outfielders so far this season) and then insert Braun into the lineup in place of Fred Lewis, the Giants would gain.... 2.5 wins. The Giants can do the equivalent of adding a star to the roster just by trading for a decent 2nd baseman. If they are serious about competing in the NL this year, Sabean HAS to do this. There is probably no cheaper (realistic) trade in all of baseball that can have more influence on a single team's season than the potential replace-Burris trade.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I wouldn’t mind this. If we are going to give Burriss all this time to see if he is any good. Why not give Frandsen a month or so to prove what he is worth before the trade deadline. He should be eligible to come back from Fresno on 6/22, that gives him a month and change before the deadline to show us something.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Jun 16, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Give Frandsen a shot to see what he is made of, not random at bats and starts.
If he sucks, then look at trading for something decent to fill the void and send frandsen packing, and then send Burriss back to SS in AAA (or 2B, whatever).
If he’s pretty okay, then let him stick around while Burriss learns to hit something in AAA.
Either way, let’s figure out what we have now before the trade deadline.
by Giant Voodoo on Jun 16, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Frandsen sucks after a "fair chance," then we would have lost the time to make up the 2+ wins that OP suggests.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jun 16, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the data supports that bringing in Frandsen now would equate to 2 more wins
Not only that, but if we let Frandsen go for a couple of months and he’s only meh (a good possibility, in my opinion), then it’s mid-August and then we make a move for a waiver-cleared 2b, and then we only have 6 weeks of that person’s added value, which will NOT be +2 wins by that point.
I am not opposed to trying Frandsen on principle, but we are dealing with the 4th dimension — time — and I’m not sure Frandsen gives us the plus we need in order to make the difference.
(Disclosures which are obvious by this point: (a) I’m not a Frandsvestite; and (2) I think we should try to make a push for the postseason this year, without mortgaging our future.)
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jun 16, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
absolutely this!!!
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 16, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree for the most part, but if he is meh wouldn’t he be league average like our other options? Perhaps i think too much of him but i think he can churn out the same numbers as most of the guys on that list if given the same playing time.
While i like Frandsen, the only reason i look to him is that he is in-house.
If there is a better option at 2B that can be had for our scraps, then more power to the GINAZ BRAZ to make it happen. I am 100% down for making a push for the playoffs while not mortgaging anything that has great value.
by Giant Voodoo on Jun 17, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Eckstein
I would rather suffer through ten years of Burriss
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 16, 2009 10:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
by BrianBokake on Jun 16, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT THE RINGZ
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jun 16, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabez is waiting until Eckstein gets a little more seasoning.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jun 16, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
eckstein haunts my nightmares. i can’t watch him.
No one here gets out alive.
by Bond16 on Jun 16, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of like the idea of Kendrick
I know he was demoted to AAA, but he has the bat, he has showed that, and I think a change of scenery could help him.
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 16, 2009 10:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
and this.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
by BrianBokake on Jun 16, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iwamura!
This team needs an everyday Japanese player to fill the gaping void left by Shinjo.
I like cats.
by Norm Median on Jun 16, 2009 10:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops, nevermind. He’s out for the season with a torn ACL.
I like cats.
by Norm Median on Jun 16, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade that Kia for a Lexus that was in a fender bender.
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 16, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still better than Burriss
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This team needs an everyday Japanese player
Are there players who are Japanese every other day?
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
by ThrillisGone22 on Jun 17, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
only the ones who are still in the process of turning Japanese
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 17, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you
really think so.
In any case, we should probably get someone Big in Japan… tonight. Alright?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Jun 17, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize the dude is in an 0 for 27 slump and hindsight being 20/20 should have started the season at Fresno. Maybe it’s just because I don’t understand the vagaries of VORP well enough, but is replacing Burriss really going to have that dramatic an effect on this team? Let me take another favorite whipping boy as an example: don’t Brian Wilson’s three blown saves so far have as great an effect on team wins over the course of the season as Burriss’ play would?
"Are we bad? No. But right now, we are." Boulderskull, 4.16.09
by Kitspool on Jun 16, 2009 10:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
W/R/T Wilson....
the answer is no. Relief Pitchers are just not that important given their limited innings.. The very best closer in baseball (think Mariano Rivera) is worth about 2.5 wins, or slightly more than an average position player.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you’re looking at those saves assuming the Giants win every one of them, sure, but that’s a flawed way of looking at it. There are 11 pitchers with 15+ saves right now, and only 1 of them hasn’t blown a save. A good closer with as many opportunities as Wilson will blow around that number of saves, too, so you’re really not adding extra wins by upgrading that spot.
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
and although it seems somewhat counter intuitive, a closer doesn’t lose a game of worth when he blows a save
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that certainly depends on how you do your math ;)
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood
Thanks to everyone for clarifying.
"Are we bad? No. But right now, we are." Boulderskull, 4.16.09
by Kitspool on Jun 16, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is this?
You’re right, that’s quite counter-intuitive to me. Please expand, if you would.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jun 16, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s say you had a 2 run lead, and 90% chance of winning the game. Your closer gave up two runs, and now you have a 50% chance of winning the game. He didn’t cost you a win, only 40% of a win.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 16, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if those two runs were the result of a bunch of grounders and pop flies that average ranging fielders should have turned into outs, but turned into line drives in the box score because the poor closer’s saddled with a bunch of glorified statues for teammates? Does that make his percentage go down any?
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 16, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on your math. If you’re valuing the player with FIP, all it counts are walks/hr’s/K’s so those balls aren’t taken into account. If you’re using tRA, batted ball profiles are included, though not those specifically. Those examples are why I don’t like using win values in small samples – the reason win values work is because in large samples, those kinds of plays are taken out by (why we love large sample sizes). If you’re looking at it from a standpoint of win probabilities, though, depending on how you assign the %‘s you can assign them to the fielder instead of the pitcher (though I don’t think there’s a win probability system at the moment that takes fielding into account, but theoretically it’s possible).
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Were we talking about a specific stat? I was just showing why a blown save isn’t worth a whole loss.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 17, 2009 5:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think one burriss hit last night would have changed the game significantly.
No one here gets out alive.
by Bond16 on Jun 16, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iwamura?
He’s out for the year.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on Jun 16, 2009 10:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Still hitting better than Burriss from his LA-Z Boy.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 16, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could have constructed that sentence better.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 16, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh. This is 7eh internetz.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
by BrianBokake on Jun 16, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he out to his family, or only to his friends?
Big difference.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jun 16, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plagarist!
Mark DeRosa makes some sense, but I hate the idea of trading prospects for Mark DeRoase. He’s a fine player, but I still don’t think we can win the wild card.
by xanthan on Jun 16, 2009 10:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
re: DeRosa
I think he would be an interesting offseason FA target. Maybe Placido Polanco, too. I could see either of them signing for around 2 years. DeRosa might get more.
by xanthan on Jun 16, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea...
how much he would cost, but I would give up a pretty decent prospect (Romo??) + bullpen piece for him. I think the number of wins is worth it.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talking out loud, I didn’t realize that DeRosa so below average on defense at 2B. In over 2,000 career innings, he’s at -7.5 runs per 150 games at 2B defensively. That changes my opinion of him a little.
by xanthan on Jun 16, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
cry what?
tears of lubricant?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Jun 16, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know. Off the games I’ve seen from Detroit this season, Polanco has appeared to really age. Albeit it’s only 1/3 of way through the season, but his days of being an automatic ~.300 player I think are behind him. Iwamura was really coming into his own before the injury and I’m pretty positive he’s going to be cheap going into the offseason with (Zobrist/Aybar/etc.).
Of course I’m not paying incredible attention to either player, it’s more or less me watching them in between Giants games/have nothing else on.
by SeeingStars on Jun 16, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His bat has slipped a little, but he’s still defending pretty good at 2B. I wouldn’t want him for long, but at the right price I like the idea of Polanco at least.
by xanthan on Jun 16, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, it’s another matter if he comes at a reasonable price. He’s not blocking any top prospect (I think) so I’m not sure why they would move him w/o a big return.
by SeeingStars on Jun 16, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And plus, his head is really oddly shaped.
by xanthan on Jun 16, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a perfect fit. Our manager will be able to relate to him well.
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has a Jason Schmidt head.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 16, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check out his expression!
That smirk clearly says, “LOL YOU GAVE ME LOTS OF BUCKS!”
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 16, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 16, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy without hair?
With the 4th pick in the 2009 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select Rickeke Flynenningday, point guard from Europe, Memphis, Syracuse, UCLA and Parts Unknown.
by otis29 on Jun 16, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has a jelly-belly head
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
by Useful_Idiot on Jun 16, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The prospects of a middle infield consisting of Renteria and Polanco really depresses me. That would guarantee Tony LaRussa takes over for Bochy next year.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jun 16, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Jim Leyland!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Detroit would trade Polanco
They are very much in their own pennant race and I’m not sure they have somebody to replace him with.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 16, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he makes more sense as an offseason FA pickup.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jun 16, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that’s what I was talking about. FA guys like him or DeRosa.
by xanthan on Jun 16, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are either (or both) of those guys projected as Type A free agents? I wouldn’t want to give up a first rounder (what could be our last high first rounder, if the team really does turn it around soon) for either of them.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 16, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the pick is a high first rounder (top 15) it can’t be lost as free agent compensation
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 16, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s right, I forgot about that. But, as Roger said below, we’re currently on pace to be picking later than top 15, and I wouldn’t want to give up a first rounder for either DeRosa or Polanco. If we do end up in the top 15, well then maybe I’d be okay with either of them.
I’d still prefer they give Frandsen a fair shot, though.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 16, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You still lose your 2nd round pick though, right? And won’t that work to count out any picks we’d get from Bengie leaving if he’s a type A FA?
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We would lose our 2nd round pick (probably somewhere between 50-60) which probably isn’t worth a lot of tears.
whether or not we sign any type A free agents has nothing to do with the compensation we would get for Bengie if he is a type A or B free agent
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 17, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you predicting a major reversal of fortune in 2010? It might well be, especially if we try integrating several more rookies, but is that what you’re predicting in saying you wouldn’t want to give up a high first rounder in the 2011 draft?
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 16, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a second, that was stupid, obviously you’re talking about the 2010 draft. Sorry. But in that case, I should point out that we currently have like the 6th or 7th best record in baseball, so it might not be that high.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 16, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is why...
rosterbation is bad for us. Assessing player availability is hard.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just a few guesses from that list
the Yankees obviously aren’t going trade Cano
Callaspo is young, promising, cheap, and under team control, so probably not
Polanco and Counsell’s teams are in their own races
who knows on Kendrick, he is in AAA right now, would they sell him low?
I’m sure that Kennedy, Eckstein, and Keppinger are all very available
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 16, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure that Kennedy, and Keppinger are all very available
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm sure
Kennedy and Keppinger are bound for a hard regression
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 16, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard Regression would be a sweet band name.
by xanthan on Jun 16, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on Kennedy, what he is doing now is a complete mirage, but Keppinger isn’t actually that far off of his career numbers (limited as they are). Of course, that’s why Kennedy could be had for almost nothing and it might take something of value to get Keppinger.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 16, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LAA has Kendrick, Brandon Wood, and Sean Rodriguez. I’m sure that at least one of them is available.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine...
Kendrick is out of a reasonable price range.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about that. They did just send him to the minors which suggests he’s worked his way into the org’s doghouse (the Angels version of Fred Lewis?), and we match up fairly well with the Angels, as they’re biggest problem right now is that steaming pile of crapheap they call a bullpen, which is almost Nats level bad. If there’s one thing we’ve got a lot of in our system, it’s live-armed bullpen guys.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 16, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be better to think about how many more wins any of those guys would be compared to Frandsen. If you can solve a problem in-house then that is the way to go.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 16, 2009 10:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For What It's Worth
ZIPS has Frandsen at an awful .278 wOBA for the remainder of the season. This is essentially the same production as current Burris. You can go back in your imagination and replace every mention of Burris with Frandsen and the fanpost still works IMO.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants really need to come up with some sort of plan, and quickly, that will help them answer the question of what combination of Burriss and Frandsen will help them in the future, not just the rest of this season. I still have hope for Burriss but it’s clear he needs some time in AAA. I think the window is closing on Frandsen to prove himself and of course he’s not being given the opportunity.
"Are we bad? No. But right now, we are." Boulderskull, 4.16.09
by Kitspool on Jun 16, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can go back in your imagination and replace every mention of Burris with Frandsen and the fanpost still works IMO.
I don’t believe this to be true. I don’t think Frandsen has been given a fair shot at proving what he can do. We can ZIPS and PECOTA all day long and we still wouldn’t know until he actually gets a shot. He hasn’t been given one yet.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 16, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but, but, but, Frandsen is better than a top 100 prospect!
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 16, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect the projection systems dock Frandsen heavily for not having played at all last year. But PECOTA still had him at .273/.334/.379 for the year, and his translated performance at Fresno has basically matched that.
by Evan on Jun 16, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn’t they just solve the Burriss problem by making frequent and copious statements to the media about how he “saves countless runs with his Defense”? That always worked with JT.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 16, 2009 11:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
NOT A VETERAN!
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least JT’s defense passed the eye test, though, it LOOKED like he was saving those runs. Burriss doesn’t even have that going for him…
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
VIDEO HIGHLIGHT PLAYS!!!
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 16, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should trade some of our bad players for another team’s good players.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jun 16, 2009 11:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
more like...
we should trade 1-2 OK-Good prospects for another teams OK player.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUY TOYOTA
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jun 16, 2009 11:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s what the parts say on a Lexus
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 16, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keshin, how would this work for 1B? What is our Ishirilia platoon at 1B doing WARP-wise, and how many averagish other 1B are available?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Jun 16, 2009 11:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually...
looked at Ishikawa awhile ago and was somewhat suprised. As bad as he has been with a bat, his defense has made up for it to some extent (Defense matters!!!). He has been .3 wins above replacement over the course of a season. Aurilia has been -.4 (and sucks), so the combination is essentially replacement. Replacing the tandem with a league average 1st baseman would add 1 win to the team over the remainder of the season. That’s a nice total, but 1st baseman generally cost too much in trade.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
-.4 in such a short time span is remarkably bad right?
by SeeingStars on Jun 16, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has been....
slightly worse than Burriss.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't stop thinking about Freddy Sanchez...
shouldn’t he be on your list? I was looking at his offensive numbers and not so much win shares…. but I would think he would rank higher than some of the second basemen mentioned above. Plus, it’s about that time of the year for a Pittsburgh firesale.
by OTTOMATIC on Jun 16, 2009 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez...
was too good to make the list. He’s on pace for a 4 win season (borderline allstar)
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and yet, he might be more available than some of the guys on the list
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 16, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a hefty price, they wont give him away for scraps. We would be talking at least one top prospect plus another piece.
The artist formerly known as Set-up man
by CB30 on Jun 16, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t know about that. they don’t want the plate appearances clause to kick in for next year with sanchez
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Jun 16, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah word is the Pirates want a haul for him
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think your idea of upgrading second base is right on! And I would rather give up a package built around one of our top prospects and target a guy like this.
by OTTOMATIC on Jun 16, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which means Burriss to Sanchez (over a whole season, obviously) is worth six wins. SIX WINS! Good lord, that is ridiculous. I mean, you’d really have to consider working out a deal for the guy that nets you six wins. That’s practically unheard of.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jun 17, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like a trade like this to happen
But it doesnt seem like something Sabean would do
The artist formerly known as Set-up man
by CB30 on Jun 16, 2009 11:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Honestly...
if the Giants FO doesn’t recognize the need to fix 2nd base, they are hopeless.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I 100% Agree with you
I tried to make this point in another thread but you have done it very clearly here.
Replacing Burriss with anyone breathing would be a HUGE upgrade for this team. Even Kevin Frandsen’s worst possible performance would help immensely.
If the Giants do not recognize this, I’m not sure what to say. Burriss is Bococking it out there.
by FairweatherFan on Jun 16, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh
have you been witness to what has been the “solution” at FIRST base. FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS*
- Hyperboleae does not cover those two JT Snow peak years.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Jun 16, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every time I look at Snow’s 2004 and I’m ‘wtf’
by xanthan on Jun 16, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at Jose Cruz in the same year
I get a “SERIOUSLY?!!! WTF???”
If he doesn’t botch those two plays in the playoffs, is he back with us the next season?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 16, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely yes. I think all we had was a cheap team option that we simply declined.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jun 16, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“If he doesn’t botch those two plays in the playoffs, is he back with us the next season?”
If he doesn’t botch those two plays in the playoffs, do we win the world series? I think the answer is…absolutely YES. And no, I don’t have a “rational” reason for thinking that. F*** Jose Cruz Jr.
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1…that team was rolling into the playoffs, and Cruz Jr. has a case of the chokes so bad he falls down, then lets an easy fly ball rattle out of his glove. I’ll never forget the pain that caused.
by tyrannoman on Jun 16, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he won a gold glove that year LOL
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jun 17, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felipe Lopez?
Would it cost too much to get him for just this year?
by Fresburg on Jun 16, 2009 12:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
intradivision markup, so probably.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 16, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about Miguel Tejada?
Somebody mentioned him in yesterday’s trade discussion and I think it’s a good idea. I’m sure the Astros would be happy to just give him away and let somebody else pay his salary (his contract expires at the end of the year). Could he be an adequate defensive 2B?
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 16, 2009 1:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely. I’ve thought of that one too, and Tejada is supposedly available.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
never, ever expect rationality from a Drayton McLane owned team.
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jun 16, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Astros apparently view themselves as “contenders”. /laughs
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jun 17, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They view themselves of contenders every year. It’s funny.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 17, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I looked at Tejada’s numbers last winter, thinking about him for 3B, and decided he is in late stages of decline. So now he goes and slugs 506 with 36 RBIs and 6 HRs, and he is the starting shortstop. They would replace him with Keppinger, a deeply mediocre player unless there is a AAA phenom they are dying to play.
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
by foothillsfan on Jun 16, 2009 1:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
what about Ray Durham?
Didn’t he still want to play?
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Jun 16, 2009 1:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I hear Brett Favre is considering coming out of retirement
possibility?
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 16, 2009 2:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
HEARD HE HAZ A CANNON
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jun 16, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only downside
is that John madden might start calling Giants games
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 16, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but who knows how he’ll come back from the sugery.
by tyrannoman on Jun 16, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about a deal centered around Sanchez and Kendrick? They’re stocks are both pretty low at the moment, but I’d take Howie Kendrick at 2B for this team without a doubt
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
by Useful_Idiot on Jun 16, 2009 3:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i
like this
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 16, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that actually doesn't help us as much.
One of the benefits of trading for only an “OK” 2nd basemen is that we could do it (probably) without giving up major league talent. If you trade an OK SP for an OK 2nd basemen you gain fewer wins.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez isn’t that ok. Plenty of free agents out there to fil in for Sanchez.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
by cheno on Jun 16, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are pretty wrong on this one.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Jun 16, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez is a perfectly good 5th starter.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jun 17, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I keep trying to tell myself this while he is getting shelled
It doesn’t seem to make me feel better about watching him pitch.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 17, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I’m with you. It is still really tough, especially when he cruises through the first four innings and then loses it completely. Sure, the team would be better if he improved or they procured an upgrade, but the rotation is not where Sabes should be looking as he tries to improve the squad.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jun 17, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
review a list of #5 starters trotted out by the Giants over the last 8 years.
And don’t forget Damian Moss!
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
by oldjacket on Jun 17, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But could his production not be replaced by Pedro or Sheets?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
by cheno on Jun 18, 2009 2:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t hold Sanchez as highly as most other McCoven seem to. He’s far too inconsistent and wild to last as a starter. Too often he pitches well for 4 or 5 innings only to completely fall apart afterwards, and on any given night he could have no control whatsoever and end up taking us out of the game before it gets going.
I attribute Kendrick’s start this season to more of a fluke.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
McCC = McClain Chronicles
by Useful_Idiot on Jun 16, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking for myself (and I think most other people), it’s not that we think Sanchez is good, per se, it’s that we’re drooling over what he COULD be. All that’s holding him back are his walks.
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denker and Ochoa are in the Red Sox system. HAHAH TAKING OUR CASTOFFS.
Which means they’ll be called up and rake.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How About Matt Downs?
Seems like a possibility…
by tyrannoman on Jun 16, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Done!!
Great idea, we’ll put him in tonight.
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Jun 16, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t be worse than Burriss.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like that will ever happen.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 16, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would it take
For a Holliday/Ellis from the A’s?
by hammystyle on Jun 16, 2009 6:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
eh, It would probably be a lot harder to get the two of them than just Holliday. They seem to be very high on Ellis, and for good reason
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 16, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His fielding numbers are ridiculously good.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
even cheaper
Giants hitters truly need to take walks. As of a few days ago. the hitters had taken 99 walks less than their opponents, or 1.67 baserunners per game. How many games minus does that add-up to? Despite batting at about 260 plus or minus a few points, and being in the upper half for team average, they are still either last or next to last in obp. All those singles and no one on base to drive in. Even when a giant gets a rare homer, there is often a paucity of baserunners. Teams that don’t take walks cannot sustain a viable offense.
by bradleybear on Jun 17, 2009 9:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For me this is really where the “extend Sabean” issue begins and ends. Because this is very very clearly an organizational philosophy (“we don’t want to teach these kids how to walk” Sabes says sarcastically) that starts in the GMs office and filters down everywhere from there. It effects how they teach kids in the minors; it effects who they choose to promote and play; it effects the kinds of vets they sign. And I agree. I don’t believe you can sustain a viable offense with this mentality. Maybe one year you can catch lightening in a bottle and balloon up to the top; but long-term it’s a losing strategy. I want the organizational vision coming from someone else’s eyes or I don’t see that any of the positive changes we’ve seen lately will bear consistently contending fruit.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 18, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is going to be a true test of Neukom’s leadership. I agree with you, Sabean’s inability to understand statistical analysis of hitting and its implications for team-building has held this team back. At this point, a good manager has to be willing to say, “great work, we really appreciate what you’ve done with us, but we’re moving in a different direction”. That’s a tough, gutsy thing to do, but it has to happen (the same goes for Bochy, who some may feel ‘deserves’ an extension as the team’s record has improved this year). Now, Neukom shouldn’t be making a change for the sake of making a change. This is something that should happen only if Neukom feels the organization improves in the long-run. Still, it’s got to be hard to fight inertia and I’m hoping Neukom has the balls to pull the trigger.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jun 18, 2009 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As of a few days ago. the hitters had taken 99 walks less than their opponents, or 1.67 baserunners per game. How many games minus does that add-up to?
About 6, actually.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 18, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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