Trading Brian Wilson.
by jpo on Jun 15, 2009 5:27 PM PDT
105 comments
I know the Giants have been rumored to have interest in a lot of hitters and I know Sanchez has been the main guy that the Giants have been dangling out there, but I was wondering if the Giants have put any thought into trading Brian Wilson. I know it might sound crazy to some people, but Wilson does have some value and could be a good addition to a lot of bullpens that are looking for relief help (Mets, Rays, Angels, etc.) The Giants seem to have a couple of guys that can close out games just as effectively (and nerverackingly) as Wilson so is it possible that the Giants might have some interest in letting Wilson go? I don't believe that it would be a good or bad move, I was just curious to see what people thought about moving or packaging Wilson.
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We is contenders
and will need Wilson for the pennant chase. If Sabean makes a deal can see him trading pitching (Sanchez, Pucetas, Sosa or even Alderson, Tanner etc). A LHH OF (Lewis, Schierholz or Bowkermania). A couple of other players from Community Top 10 may be available – Nooner, Gillaspie, Kieschnick.
So would expect to get a vet for prospects in trade
having Affeldt close wouldn’t be a downgrade at all
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
No way Sabean trades his closer if he thinks we are contending.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
wilson
is very scary though. if we’re still in it down the stretch i can see him working his way out of the closers role and depreciating his trade value.
J-Po: Aurilia=DFA
Sure, for the right player/s
But Wilson’s actually been pretty good this year. A lot better than last year.
3.01 FIP from a releiver is nothing to sneeze at. He’s been worth nearly 1 WAR already. That’s impressive from the bullpen.
Has everyone forgotten how bad it was when we didn’t have a closer? Yes, I know the theory that closers are overrated. I’ll take what we have now over what we didn’t have a few years ago. Just look at 2003.
Wilson may come across as a douche, but he has proven to be an effective closer. This is a good thing for our team.
by positiveuphemism on Jun 15, 2009 5:45 PM PDT reply actions
He was 41 for 47 in save opportunities. How did our closers do from ’03 > ’07?
by positiveuphemism on Jun 15, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Based just on sv/svo, 2003 Worrell, 2004 Hermanson, 2005 Walker / Benitez, and 2007 Benitez were all over 80% for save success.
Obviously, that’s cherry picked, and obviously it’s a fairly limited point, and obviously using that stat on its own is always flawed, but those are clean numbers.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 15, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
as FWF...
pointed out, Wilson has been adequate this season. Furthermore, many front offices have improved significantly in quality over the last couple of years and now realize that relievers are fungible (too bad our GM can’t trade with the Giants. I hear their GM makes bad decisions). Look at how reliever salaries have plummeted this season. Odds are very much against receiving a useful piece for Wilson.
Flossing a dead horse
Then why is Jon Heyman claiming Houston Street has so much value? And how was Street the key piece in getting Matt Holliday?
I have an uninformed hunch...
that by this years trade deadline, Wilson’s value will be as high as it’s going to be. Coupled with the fact we have quite a few bullpen arms who could take his position as ninth inning guy, I wouldn’t mind flipping him for an above average 2B or a (probably somewhat flawed) power bat.
Status: So pissed that the Giants sold my wall of Ks to Johnsonville Sausages, that I'm boycotting purchasing anything at the park, or patronizing their sponsers.
neither of those...
is a legitimate possibility to receive in trade for a relief pitcher
Flossing a dead horse
i agree
i wasn’t thinking 2nd bagger when i wrote this. i don’t wanna hinder buriss’ development. i was thinking of a corner infielder.
Cain>Lincecum.
This!!!!
I can’t wait until Burriss develops into a replacement level 2nd baseman.
Flossing a dead horse
kenshin, you underestimate Manny. He’ll develop into a replacement level SS.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
if replying to oneself...
is mental masturbation, linking to oneself is using the left hand
http://mvn.com/giantscove/2009/06/anatomy-of-a-bad-baseball-player.html
Flossing a dead horse
Thanks for the link
Good article. I couldn’t agree more.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
I don’t think Burriss needs the help in hindering his development.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
Brian Sabean will not trade Brian Wilson.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
I would love to trade Wilson
But I doubt the Giants would even consider it. I also think (as some people have pointed out) that most MLB clubs are capable of looking past save totals, so we’re not going to be able to rob some blind in a Wilson trade. I’m all for packaging him with Sanchez or Lewis or Burriss or some of our non top 4 prospects.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 5:56 PM PDT reply actions
With all the stories out there about his inconsistency thus far we’d kinda be trading low on him. At some point Wilson’s gonna put up a sub-2.50 ERA – that’s when you deal the All-Star Closer for multiple prospects (one hopes). Not to mention, most of our relievers (Medders/Miller, i’m looking at you) are due for a fall long before Wilson is.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
Not a good idea to trade Barry Zito's BFF and training partner.
We’ve all seen what happens when his head is out of whack.
Proud father of Dallas Mcpherson, the Babe Ruth of AAA.
Wilson’s earned every penny he’s being paid just making Zito an average pitcher again. Zito has earned every penny he’s being paid turning Cain into a winner.
by Missing Barry on Jun 15, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Now that Zito's ERA is closing in on 5 again, I think Wilson just became expendable.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Yeah really bad timing on my part posting that comment right before last nights game…
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d trade him just so i won’t have to watch Life of Brian anymore. Do all of them live in the Marina or something…if so Marina=Dbagz
Marina=Dbagz long before Zito and Wilson came onto the scene.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 15, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
how about
wilson for casey blake? j/k….kinda.
Cain>Lincecum.
I like the bullpen just the way it is now. It’s good and it’s deep. Why screw with it?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
There are five or six good and deep jokes just sitting right there for the taking.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 15, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
fight the urGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 16, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey that username is similar to mine.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2007/7/15/6228/41461#1204776
It was true two years ago.
It’s true now.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
LOL
Did you just look for fanposts made by jpo? or did you have it bookmarked?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
yeah i wrote that shit.
and i stand by my defense of sabean. even though that entry was underresearched and highly controversial.
Cain>Lincecum.
The Giants have a promising pitching staff, and are a free agent signing or two away from serious contention
I’m starting to think that this applies to any team at any time.
well
without the pitching the free agents signings don’t mean anything.
Not jponry.
i wasn't speaking in generalities.
i was talking about the giants specifically, because this is a giants fansite.
Not jponry.
it is.
i didn’t know you existed when i created my username. it’s just my nickname from my high school playing days. i changed my signature though, it should help clear things up.
Not jponry.
I posted just this idea in a thread a few days ago. I’m not saying we need to trade him now, because I think his trade value will go higher sometime this season or next. We could get quite a haul for him from some desperate contending team that loses a closer to injury or meltdown (think the Mets last year). My point was that he’s fine in games that have not much meaning (basically this describes almost every game that he’s closed for us the past 2 seasons), but I don’t trust him to be our closer in a pennant race when we start getting our top prospects up next year or in 2011 and (hopefully) become legitimate top contenders. We should trade him before all the other teams realize that, but only when we have the leverage to make a real good deal. I think Romo or Affeldt can handle the closer role, with the other guy and Merkin handling the set-up role. Then we’ll have some good young arms coming up to help out starting late this year or early next (think Connecticut). Of course, this all pre-supposes that Sabes still remembers how to pull of a Matt Williams style trade.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I think you’ll find the trade Brian Wilson discussion dates back a little further then last week hereabouts.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Where’s Barry gonna be?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
On the mound losing the game.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
if the quality was there, this would be my desktop
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jun 16, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m thinking that Wilson, Sanchez, and let’s say Pucetas would be just about what it would take to land AJ Pierzynski!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 15, 2009 10:46 PM PDT reply actions
If only that were the trade, and not the one made back then.
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
He is very young
If you tell me that the Orioles called and they want to give up the package Seattle gave them for Erik Bedard: Trade Brian Wilson! But no thanks if we are talking about an older bat from the white sox or something like that.
Everyone talks about how Wilson is scary, but the kid is still young. He is so much better than the guys who lost us more games than they closed out, and he will continue to get better. If the Giants want to have a chance at winning this year or next, they need an everyday closer. Wilson fits that bill.
Two words: Jose Valverde
Although Valverde had his issues, and nearly blew every save that he converted, the D-backs thought he was expendable because they had so many in-house options. Since then, Lyon failed, Pena failed, and Qualls has been injured and is probably better suited for the 7th inning.
Point being, I know what we we have in Wilson and I’d rather keep him rather than take a chance on unproven closers. At least we know he has the make up of a closer, to use a cliche.
Here’s the deal: there is a .04% chance that they would get an impact position player in return for Wilson, who is probably just an average reliever. Why screw with the success the bullpen’s had, then? It’s been one of the few strong points on this team.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
I don’t know about that. There are two major championship contenders who have seriously worrying closer situations right now (Phils and Yanks). They’re both playing at a level where they just can’t allow an unsettled closer situation to be the difference between a World Series and a playoff loss. You might be able to take either of those guys for a serious haul. Now the Phils dont’ really have that much to offer, but the Yanks have both decent proven veteran bats (Swisher) and mega-monster prospect bats (Montero) around which to construct a deal if they get to the point where they feel they have to.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
but is Wilson that much better than Lidge or Rivera? I sure don’t think so, and while it’s possible there’s a bonehead in those offices that would give up a good hitter for Wilson and his shiny saves, I really doubt they would. It would be one thing if they were trading for someone like Papelbon, but Wilson? I could see maybe Swisher back in a deal like that, but nothing more.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jun 16, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Well he’s better than Lidge if Lidge is hurt or out. Rivera no, but if the Yanks start worrying about him (and you know things in NY do have a tendency to get blown out of proportion) they might well think they need an insurance policy, and just figure that gives them a replacement going forward (he’s 39 and his contract ends next year).
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
But have you heard of Yran Madison? he is pretty solid
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jun 16, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
No he is not from the middle east
Ryan Madson
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jun 16, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah but without Lidge, that moves everyone one step up and the bullpen is worse.
Still, Wilson probably isn’t getting traded unless he’s part of a big package for a bat. What would we do without Proven Closer! OH NOES!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Philly not gonna get a closer, when they have Madson, they could get the same “nonCloser” for cheaper
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jun 16, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Percival is retiring over rehab so you can also include Tampa Bay.
by SeeingStars on Jun 16, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
hmm. Now that could be intresting.
Yes, This is still a 79 win squad.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Jun 20, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Any discussion that ends in Wilson being traded for Swisher is bad. I think you’re overrating Swisher and underrating Wilson.
There’s a lot of bemoaning the Joe Nathan trade that happens here, that’s fine, but we should be careful to do the proper analysis and avoid making the same mistake. If you compare Nathan and Wilson’s numbers by age they’re pretty close. Nathan’s big jumps came at the ages 28 and 29. Wilson is 27. I’m not saying Wilson will be Nathan, but he’s got the stuff and that’s half the battle.
If the right deal comes along do it, but it should be a knock out because it’s a throw in the towel trade. At the very least Romo should get a full year under his belt and we should have set-up man in the wings.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Jun 16, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually I was perfectly rating Montero!
No but I’m just saying there are deals to be had out there when you dangle an All Star closer. I have no idea what they might be, but to assume that Wilson could bring back production is IMO wrong. Heck Frank Francisco just went down and I think Texas has a legitimate chance to stay in it this year and they ooze bats at both the major and minor league levels, so we can throw them on the pile.
And really, I’d be perfectly happy with keeping Wilson, too, but the point is some changes have to be made in order to take advantage of our window with this pitching staff, and a little creativity may need to be involved. This just isn’t good enough of a team to have a very large untouchable pile.
And at this point you can definitely throw me on the Tim & Matt and Randy in a short series makes us hard to beat bandwagon. Some people may say we’re not in contention, but I think they’re looking at our flaws too much and the rest of the leagues not enough. The Mets have serious issues and may just be done in Santana’s really hurt. The Central is a lump of lumpy looking stuff. Who exactly is going to run away with the Wild Card and make it unavailable to us. Atlanta? Florida? I’m ok with our chances in that race.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
bad comparison
joe nathan has a second pitch. wilson is all fastballs unless he throws his cutter which usually ends up outside of the strike zone. unless wilson develops a second pitch i don’t see him approaching elite closer status.
Not jponry.
Don’t you remember Nathan early on? The four seamer was the only pitch he throw for strikes. I think Wilson does have a second pitch if he gets the confidence to throw his change up.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Jun 16, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
wilson
doesn’t even throw a change up. i don’t he even knows to grip a change up. he has a “cutter”.
Not jponry.
Wilson started messing around with a change up during the offseason, but hasn’t used it thus far.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
How early on?
Maybe as a starter, but he consistantly threw his filthy breaking ball for strikes from day one of the 2003 season.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Yes, when he was 28. I don’t think there’s any doubt that Wilson has first rate closer stuff, it’s more of an issue throwing strikes and that ever elusive “learning how to pitch”. That’s why I think we’d be selling ourselves short to throw in the towel at this point, which as I see it, a trade for someone like Nick Swisher (who I think is awful) would be.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Jun 17, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
there is doubt wilson has closer stuff
because he has no second pitch. all closers have at least some sort of second pitch for show. he does have a closer fastball.
Not jponry.
Nick Swisher’s .244/.389/.513 line disagrees with you. As do his career 114 OPS+ and 136 OPS+ this season. His only bad year was last year, when he had an incredibly unlucky BABIP of .249. The previous two years he put up 125 then 127 OPS+.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
If command were the only issue, I might agree.
But Wilson’s has an even large problem in that he’s a one-pitch pitcher. I’m sure that there are examples of relievers coming up with a second plus pitch mid-career, but it seems pretty rare (certainly rarer than wild relievers who harness their command).
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
If we could swap Brian Wilson straight up for Nick Swisher, I don’t see a single reason why we wouldn’t do that. Other than Sabean being an idiot.
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Brian Wilson will not be traded until July 13 at the earliest
Since Brian Wilson Bobblehead Night is July 12.
"Are we bad? No. But right now, we are." Boulderskull, 4.16.09
which is more likely?
The Giants trade proven closer Brian Wilson, or they re-sign Barry Bonds?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
A
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
Wilson
no way Sabean ever brings Bonds back…they’ve burnt that bridge.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jun 16, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
They are each infinitely unlikely and therefore equal? Is this a trick question?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 17, 2009 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
got it
although “infinitely” is a bit strong… “so unlikely as to be unworthy of serious consideration”
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
That is more reasonable
I just figured neither is going to happen…
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 17, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
If you want to trade Brian Wilson....
The Angels are listening…
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