We need a bat, but who?
As we all know, the Giants are at the moment first in the Wild Card standings and have arguably the best pitching staff in baseball. But that's not enough to make the rest of America believers. To do that, the Giants need a bat, and they need one BAD. The Giants rank 28th in runs scored and dead last in home runs. Alot of names have been thrown around lately as possible trade targets for the Giants, but no one seems to agree on who would be the right choice. So, lets settle this democratically. Who do you think the Giants should go after at the trade deadline? If you don't see who you want on the poll, leave some comments.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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ERROR
there was no “all of the above” option.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
"I'm not retired!"
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
Moar pleese.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jun 15, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Barry Bonds is the Answer. Pablo 3rd and Bonds 4th? They’d have to throw Pablo strikes, and that would be bad news for them.
Keeping on SWOOPing in the free world! Also, by the reflexive property of the rubber/glue playground comeback, I enjoy wearing hats on my ass.
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jun 15, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
if you really wanna buy low
Trade for JJ Hardy. He’s due big time.
and I know we have Renteria, but fuck that guy. He can’t field! You can’t say that about Hardy http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders1-0608.gif

NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on Jun 15, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
These are almost as good as Josh from Hollywood’s lolsabeans.
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
His K rate is actually way down from last year, and with no loss in line-drive or fly-ball rates. I’m not a fan but he looks due for a serious hot streak.
Whoa, good call. And his BABIP is a criminally low .233. Maybe it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Yup
K rate down, BB rate up, LD rate constant, BABIP down 65 points from his career numbers.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Now
His defense has been awful, but looking over the past 4 years, he’s probably a true talent -10 < x < 0 fielder, which is acceptable.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
I just bought him low in fantasy baseball last week
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, he ain’t got no aliba. He Uggla.
by biff pocoroba on Jun 15, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Jermaine Dye
ChiSox GM Kenny Williams like to deal. A big bat like that of 35yr old Dye in the middle of the Giants batting order could be very beneficial. Dye is due $11.5M this season (so about $8M still due) and a $12M mutual option for 2010 with a $1M buyout. The monies may not be a problem however since Sabean had mentioned before that SF could possibly take on a contract later this summer.
Dye is an experienced corner OFer with good defense, strong arm and quality bat. He has both playoff and World Series experience. He is a RHH which should play well at Mays Field. If either the Giants or Dye decline the 2010 option there is a very good probability that Dye would be a Type A free agent and the Giants could possibly receive some compensation.
What would Williams want in return? Not sure. What could the Giants offer – some pitching and prospects.
Dye is an awful defensive outfielder at this point – going into his fifth straight year of -20 defense.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Check out his 2006-2008 UZR/150 consistency.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Wow! Dye has only had ONE good defensive season in his career?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Well, as far back as UZR goes, yes.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
I like Jermaine Dye, but I don’t want to trade for him.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
Bowkermania
Would hope SF try some inhouse solutions first. And do not see anyway where SF would carry the 3 similar players of Lewis, Schierholtz and Bowker since all are LHHs and none can play CF. One will have to go
Well we still have Rowand, Winn and Torres.
What we don’t have in the OF is a true LF slugger. A RHH like Holliday would fit the bill nicely, but I’m more into signing him as a FA than trading for him, unless the A’s get desperate and he ends up going cheaply.
I suppose getting him this year would help the chances of re-signing him when he sees what a cool team this is and how cool we fans are.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
wait
did you just say “big bat like that of 35yr old Dye”. He’s hitting .346/.530. While that might make him a “legitimate corner OF” with the bat… it ranks him 23rd in MLB. Just ahead of “big bat like that of 33yr old Rowand”.
Pass.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
We should have signed him instead of Moises Alou years ago, but I think the Dye ship has sailed.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jun 15, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Tejada at 3B. I wouldn’t mind eating that contract if it meant we gave up a coke and a bag of chips.
Holliday
but realistically i can wait until the offseason when we can acquire him via cash rather than prospects.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
That and we don’t have much the A’s would be interested in. They have plenty of young pitching.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jun 15, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
They’re going to have to pick an offer pretty soon unless they’re fine with getting compensatory picks for Holliday.
Who do you see coming in willing to deal top position prospects for half a year of a player?
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
I actually like Huff the best out of these choices though I haven’t heard his name in any of the rumors/speculation/rosterbation, whatever that means. Sure, he’s an FA-to-be like Holliday, but probably easier to sign (if we want to). Uggla will cost too much, Johnson will break his femur his first week with the Giants, and the rest are all truly distasteful options.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
/golf clap
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jun 15, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not big on any of those guys
if we are going to “trade for a bat” I would rather get somebody who has a long term future with the team, here a few guys I would target.
Jason Donald: nobody in baseball is more blocked than a middle IF in the Phillies organization. I know the Phillies are looking for pitching, I’m not sure if they would be interested in Sanchez.
Reid Brignac: assuming Jason Bartlett comes back soon the Rays might part with Brignac, but I doubt we have anything they would want
Brandon Wood: we have talked about him enough
Howie Kendrick: he is having an atrocious year and even got sent down to the minors recently, but his track record is really solid and I think he will eventually come around. The Angels probably don’t want to sell him this low (I certainly wouldn’t if I were them)
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 1:31 PM PDT reply actions
Bartlett is supposed to come back this week. Not a big fan of Brignac though at all. Donald is kinda like Frandsen, but he might be able to stick at 2b.
Howie Kendrick is a nice buy low kinda guy to think about though.
I also like Kendrick in a “he might not cost us MadBum” sorta way.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
give me a break
most people think Donald can stick at SS, and I’ve never seen anybody question his ability to be at least adequate at second base (here is one of the worst evaluations of his defense I have read). He was in both Baseball America (# 69) and Keith Law’s (# 48) top 100 prospect lists before this season. Needless to say, Kevin Frandsen has never come within a hundred miles of such a list.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
BA said this year:
A mechanical fielder, Donald grades out as a below-average SS and likely won’t be a regular at the position. He should be average at 2b, and has enough arm for third but needs more work there. At times he can be too hard on himself and takes bad at bats into the field and vice versa. He doesn’t fit as a classic 3b profile, and may fit better as a super utility player
Who does that sound like?
That sounds about like Kevin Frandsen defensively. Guys who aren’t quite good enough to play SS are usually good enough to play 2B or 3B. To say that Kevin Frandsen (a marginal prospect at best) is better than Jason Donald, a top 100 prospect, is like a giantsrainman-esque comment.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
You still failed to show how Donald is nothing like Frandsen other then the fact that Donald was put on some top 100 lists prior to the year.
that alone makes him nothing like Frandsen
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, just because a guy makes a top 100 prospect list doesn’t really mean all that much other then the fact that he might be closer to making the major leagues then a lot of other prospects. It says nothing of his true abilities or overall upside. Donald’s not a terrible player, I just think you are much higher on him than anyone else seems to be. Which is fine, but provide some examples for why you think that way please.
a lot of people are very high on Donald
The fact that he made those top prospect lists means something. Baseball America and John Sickles both ranked him as the 4th best Phillies prospect and Keith Law had him 1st (I would bet heavily that Kevin Frandsen would be considerably lower if he qualified for those lists). You could dismiss that as just a bunch of lists but that tells me that a lot of people who know about this sort of thing like him as a prospect. Keith Law has said he is good enough to start for somebody right now (can’t find that link, but here is one praising him for tearing up the Arizona Fall League last fall). Other than his first 50 games at AAA this year he has been very good every year in the minors.
I would bet if you tried to make a Jason Donald Kevin Frandsen comparison to any of these people who follow prospects for a living it would be met with uproarious laughter.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Frandsen was 6th on the SF list back in 07. Behind Timmy, Sanchez, Big V, Wilson and Burriss. He was cited for his big AFL, he hit .388 and for his ability to make contact, and also that he likely wouldn’t stick at SS, have the bat for 3b, and would have to play 2b. Like I said Donald has a better bat profile, but BA called his minor league career going into this year as “overachieving”.
I like your thinking...
But not the players you’re targeting – except Wood (I like him just fine). I feel that we should be targeting RH power hitters that are blocked (ie. Wood and Blanks.
You should research your targets before suggesting them. Donald’s not a good choice just now.
1. He’s going to be out at least 6 weeks due to knee surgery:
http://zozone.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/06/donald_to_have_surgery_marson.html?partnerId=rss_phi
2. He’s sucked at AAA all year long. Before the injury his line was .230/.293/.324, with 52 Ks in 226 ABs. We have a guy who plays excellent D hitting much better than that in AA right now (in a notoriously bad hitter’s park). Why would we want to block Brandon Crawford?
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Brandon Crawford is miles and miles away from a sure thing. Besides, when you have multiple awesome shortstops—-one of them can like, move to another position.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
He appears to me to be as close as Donald. The big problem with Crawford (his D appears to be advanced enough to fit in the majors right now) is his hi K rate, but at least he has a high slugging percentage to go with the Ks. Donald has no slugging, no OBP, and a K rate of around 22% – not a good combo. Why do we need another good D/no hit SS to play 2B or 3B now? We already have Burris doing that. Are you saying that Donald is a better prospect than Burris? Would we really want to trade anything good for Donald now?
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I’m not defending Donald, his defense isn’t even that good. I’m saying that “blocking Brandon Crawford” is not a good reason to avoid acquring a shortstop.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Donald is a much much much better prospect than Burriss
and the problem with the Crawford (this is coming from a huge Crawford fan) is that outside of a hot month in the Cal League, the guy hasn’t hit since his sophomore year at UCLA. I didn’t know that about Donald’s injury, but assuming he comes back healthy, he is a better prospect than Burriss or Crawford.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
LIKE FIRST BASE!
I mean, who wants one of those fat slow plodding guys who take a walk and hit the ball a country mile!
Give me a team of scrappy basepath jitterbugs!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I like the thought of trading for Holiday. It’ll probably cost a lot more than I’d be willing to give, though. I assume Holiday will be a type-A guy – so if we trade for him even if he walks we get 2 picks from it. Problem is, the A’s have that deal to and Beane will make us give up at least what those 2 picks are worth + more for his production for this season.
Adrian Gonzalez or nothing.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Sanchez for Longoria. The Rayz kneed armz.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Jun 15, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually wonder if we could get him. McClane is always hurting payroll wise, and we could certainly use Berkman’s bat.
fat money?
im still not sure which one you are talking about
by Giant Voodoo on Jun 15, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Surely Carlos Lee is available if we’re willing to take the contract, but I believe he has a full no-trade and it seems he has no intention of coming to the coast for love or money.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
No, No, and a big fat “bad defense” No !
"One percent of ballplayers are leaders of men. The other ninety-nine percent are followers of women."-John McGraw, NY Giants Baseball Club
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Berkman...
Has a no-trade clause, yes?
He HATES it here. He’s publicly said he hates our park and wouldn’t want to play here.
He seems like a Texas kind of guy. And by that, I mean a douche.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 15, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Get Huff or Tejada for cheap and eat some salary. No great prospects need to be given up
The artist formerly known as Set-up man
For some reason, I’ve always had a thing for Ryan Garko. He wouldn’t cost much to get from the failing Indians, and he absolutely mashes lefties with a career .916 OPS. At worst, we trade some meh prospects for him and platoon him with Ishi. I see him as more of a low risk medium upside type player.
Justin Miller: More ink'd than an octopus on PCP.
I’m also in the Bowkermania bandwagon camp.
Justin Miller: More ink'd than an octopus on PCP.
by stealth snail on Jun 15, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
In rod we trust.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
Simpson references abound. today ICR, yesterday planet of the apes musical
by Classy_Argonaut on Jun 16, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Victor Martinez To Play 1B And Join The Panda As A Starting IFer And Backup Catcher
With this no need to carry either Whiteside or Holm on the roster. The Inidians should be sellers by the trade deadline if not sooner and the Giants have plenty on the farm to offer for a true middle of the order bat like Victor Martinez.
Victor’s contract pays him $5.7M this year with a team option for just $7M next year.
I’d love to have Victor on this team, but the Indians are going to want a TON for him.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Really really really big longshot, but what are the odds we could “buy low” on Grady Sizemore? Perhaps he just needs to get out Cleveland? And out of the leadoff spot.
It’s more like who wouldn’t I trade to get Grady Sizemore… and it’s a very short list.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
come on, the Indians are not that stupid that they will give up one of the top 3 players in all of MLB just because he got hurt.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Uggla? What’s the fascination there? If we want to ruin our infield D to add some pop to the lineup just call up Jesus from Fresno. As for all the bats mentioned who will be FAs at the end of the year (Holliday, Beltre, Johnson, Huff,…), I’ll pass on them unless we can pick them up for 2 or 3 very fringe prospects. None of them are likely to sign with us next year unless we offer them an unwise amount of $$$ and years, and they are all too flawed to fit our club at this stage of their careers.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
so.
in your opinion… let me just see if I get this straight here…
Dan Uggla, 29 year old 2B with a career major league OPS of .822 in 2300 PAs
is somehow the equivalent of
Jesus Guzman, 25 year old 1B/DH with career MINOR leage OPS of .837? (ZIPS projection .700 OPS).
Really. That’s your point.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
No, you slant your argument
1. You conveniently leave out the fact that we already own Guzman for little or no money, while Uggla would cost us millions in salary and at the very least Sanchez and another top prospect or quality ML reliever from our pen in trade.
2. I believe that Guzman is more like Pablito (and many other minor leaguers). You can’t go by thier entire career Minor stats because at some point they both put it all together and became consistently very good hitters. While Guzman’s career Minor League OPS might be .837, since the start of the 2008 season (when he had his breakthrough) he has compiled the following:
OPS = .926 between AA and AAA – for 2008
OPS = >> 1.000 in Venezuela Summer League (MVP and HR and Slugging winner)
OPS = .948 in AAA at Fresno – for 2009
3. 1B is not anywhere near a demanding defensive position as 2b
4. Uggla plays half his games in a hitters park, and about 1/3rd of his other games in the 4 other hitters parks of the NL East (Phil., Wash., Atlanta, NY). No way he keeps his gaudy slugging numbers playing half his games at AT&T – not to mention 18 games at PetCo and Chavez Ravine.
5. Most importantly, Uggla is not a long-term solution for us as I believe he will be a FA after next year. We have some good young assets to trade, and IMHO I don’t think we should spend them on a short-termer that will help us offensively but hurt us with his D, when we have some options in-house that we still need to evaluate.
Now if I thought we could get Uggla for a package of B/C prospects I’d have no problem with that, but I don’t see the Marlins doing that right now.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Dan Uggla IS actually a long term solution. He just had his first arbitration hearing before this season so he is under team control for two more years after this one. I am sure he would sell out those two years in exchange for the financial security of a long term deal. If the Marlins are sellers on him, we should be buyers. We have plenty of holes to fill on offense, and 2nd base seems like a good place to start
You know I started a long post about why Uggla is obviously better than Guzman – hence the facination, there were some MLEs and yadda yadda
But frankly – your main point is right. They SHOULD bring up Guzman to play 1B. They should also get Uggla (if he’s not too expensive, obv.), because Burriss is THE PROBLEM too.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Dude, you let me down.
There’s no evidence at all that Guzman would be better at first than Ishikawa. Ishikawa’s big 2008 season at Fresno blows away Guzman’s this year. Even though Travis has been a disappointment in the majors, his career line is basically indistinguishable from Guzman’s MLEs. And he’s a smooth fielder, while Guzman is by all accounts a butcher.
If you want to bring up Jesus to replace Richie as part of a platoon, fine, I’m in; but there’s no way he should start ahead of Ishikawa.
dunno
TI has a SLG of .330 or something. He’s just barely above replacement level, and that’s with all the fielding mojo JT Snow was thought to have had.
Luckily, we have TWO wasted roster spots! Aurillia AND Burriss…. so we could carry Franny and Guzman pretty easy.
Also, I think I made a typo when I MLE’d Guzman… his 2009 looked pretty good.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson Nick Johnson
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
FA FA FA!
Johnson’s a FA at the end of the year, and he has a long history of injuries. Much better to wait until the end of the year, see if he’s still healthy, give Guzman a shot at 1B (even if it’s only a platoon with Ishi), and then go after Johnson in the off-season if we still love him. But, IMHO, I don’t see anyway that he signs with us as a lefty in AT&T. Besides, I see the BoSox as ready, willing, and able to give up more for Johnson now (ie. Brad Penny and a minor prospect).
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Sign him to 1B, and move Uribe to 2B (since it seems like Frandsen isn’t getting a shot). You’d be replacing Burriss’s bat with Johnson – that’s huge. If he has a good season offer him arbitration – you’d either get a draft pick or a good player who plays a position of need for a very reasonable price (he’s making $5.5M this year). Word is he could be had for a reliever.
Nick Johnson.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
I'm thinking
Nick Johnson. And a case o advil.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Exactly
We need to be evaluating guys like Guzman, Bowker, Frandsen, Schierholtz, and Rohlinger now when we have the chance. I don’t want to be messing around with auditions in 2010/11 when we get guys like MadBum, T2, Buster, and Crawford (just hypothetical – I’m not saying they all make it) are in SF and we still have a window of opportunity to be great before Timmy, Cainer, and Panda can become FAs. I’d like to see Guzman (btw, he may be a “butcher” at 3B but I haven’t heard anything about him being one at 1B – he only has 4 errors – although that doesn’t tell us anything about his range and peripherals) and Ishi platooning at 1B to begin with (but Ishi shouldn’t get much more time if he slumps again). Also Frandsen starting at 2B, Bowker getting a shot in LF, Nate getting more time in RF, and Uribe splitting time with Renteria at SS (I’d actually like to see them bench Renteria but they won’t do that to a guy making $18M over the next 2 years). Send Burriss down to AAA to start at SS and make him bunt at least once a game. Send FLew down to AAA (unless he’s out of options) and let him get his confidence back. Release Aurilia – he’s entirely superfluous and blocking Guzman.
We probably disagree on the definition of “too expensive” in terms of Uggla. I believe that the Marlins will hold out for a king’s ransom if we try to get him now. Besides, trading guys like Sanchez, Alderson, etc. now would be trading from a position of weakness. Not only are they not as valuable now as they have been or will be, but the teams we’d be trading with know we’re the ones that need something. The teams we’d be dealing with will already believe that they are out of the running and so have no urgency to make a trade without it being very beneficial to them (unless they have to dump salary or will be losing a player to FA at the end of the season). Better to wait for the off-season when there’s less of a demand and more of a buyer’s market.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I don’t really get this line of thinking. Teams evaluate young talent when a) they think they might be ready; and/or b) they have a need or an opening. The Red Sox have managed to evaluate Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lowrie and a raft of pitchers while competing for World Championships every year. The Yanks managed to evaluate a Cano here and there and the Braves a Chipper and an Andruw and a Brian McCann.
In fact, this whole we can’t look at young players when we’re able to compete (mostly with young players who apparently we won’t ever take the time to evaluate? — not sure I can worm my way through that paradox) reminds me of the hue and cry in NY in 1996 when Torre installed Jeter at SS in spring training and told the front office not to trade for Tony Fernandez. The whole baseball world was in an uproar because “you can’t win with a rookie SS.”
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
The difference is that in all the cases you cited a contending team gave one rookie a starting spot in a given year (I’m not talking about pitching here – that’s totally different from fielders). Here I was talking about at least 3 rookies at one time. This is the perfect time to do it. We’re not really contenders, we just have a hot streak going now against (mostly) bad teams. Think of how much we learned and gained (Romo and Panda) last August when we cleared the benches. If we do it this year a month earlier it will most likely be invaluable in the long run.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
So when are we supposed to be evaluating Posey, Crawford, Neal etc etc etc within the 2010/2011 window while still competing? Cain’s a FA after 2011. Your timeline is confusing me I guess.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I don’t see us as being an established contending team until 2011 at the earliest. Until then we should be starting and evaluating as many rookies that seem to be close to MLB-ready as is feasible. When you’re not an established contender is when you should take big gambles (the risk/reward is in your favor). If you have a veteran team that consistently wins 90+ games a year (Yankees, Sox, Angels) and always makes the playoffs is when you don’t want/need to make big changes. That’s when you trade prospects for veterans and make big FA acquisitions.
I feel that we should use the rest of this year to evaluate as many players as we can, then use that info to make judicious trades and FA signings in the off-season. If we do a good job at it we can be surprise contenders in 2010 (even while still taking some chances with young personnel), and have a good shot at making the playoffs (think 1987 Giants with Clark and Thompson starting on the right side of the infield). Then in 2011 we could actually be an established contender with a great mix of young veterans (except for Rowand and a FA or 2) and 1 or 2 rookies (Posey, Neal, Crawford, Kieschnick, Dominguez, …) – think the 2008 Rays. Of course, we could lose Cain to FA in 2012, but we should have a lot of options to replace him (MadBum, T2, Sosa, Martinez, Pucetas,…). On the other hand, if we have a good up-and-coming team that look like they’ll be long-term contenders I think Cainer will give us a hometown discount to stick around and enjoy the fruits of his labors after having gone with us through the wilderness years.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Jon Heyman just said
Giants are definitely buyers(not surprise) and that we’re heavily scouting Tejada, Huff and Holliday.
*no surprise
he said that on MLB Network btw
you could be right
I wasn’t listening too closely and I don’t have dvr on this tv so I can’t rewind to double check.
I just listened to it again, sounds like Hawpe. Hard to tell though since he has that awful nasal sounding voice. Hawpe isn’t exciting either. Especially when one looks at his defensive stats, wow…
Not even Holliday? I don’t see whats to like aside from the possible asking price.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
I think I saw some Giants scouts at the Oakland game over the weekend.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
Our quandary
We certainly appear to be legitimate wild card contenders. However, this year is NOT the year to go for broke. This year is still a rebuilding year.
It’s certainly worth it to try to improve the offense in order to try to make the playoffs. But nothing should be done that hurts the future (at least not significantly)
Furthermore, Schierholtz, Lewis, Bowker, Guzman, Ishikawa, and Frandsen have unsure things. We don’t know whether one or possibly even more of these guys will be consistently productive major leaguers. Each is worth taking a look at (to varying degrees). If we bring in a bat (even, say, Dan Uggla) then we will have missed that opportunity to evaluate and perhaps come up with a cheap alternative.
If Sandoval and Romo have taught us anything, it’s that sometimes prospects come out of no where to be productive major leaguers. They just need that chance.
Of course, on the other hand, it’s more likely that these guys will fail. In that case, not trading for Johnson or Uggla or DeRosa or somebody will have been a missed opportunity to improve the offense.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Jun 15, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
Totally agree with all but the last paragraph. Johnson, and I believe DeRosa, will be a FA at the end of the year (Uggla is never somebody that will fit our team due to his horrible D). If we are so in love with them we can sign them then without giving up any prospects. Meanwhile, this year we need to evaluate some, if not all, of our own young prospects this year so that we can have a clearer idea of who to target via trade & FA this off-season. That being said, I have no problem getting a short-term rental hitter (Beltre, Johnson, …) through the waiver wires in August if we are still in the thick of things then.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
We have interest in Adam LaRoche
http://www.piratesreport.com/page/blogs.detail/display/134/Trade-winds-are-picking-up-again.html
Meanwhile, first baseman Andy LaRoche is drawing trade interest from San Francisco. The Giants are 7 ½ games behind the Dodgers in the NL West but lead the wild-card race despite being last in the league in home runs.
the quote says Andy but I'm sure he means Adam
since he calls him a first basemen
It would be awesome if we got Andy, and he became a Dodger killer.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
Adam LaRoche?
Eww.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
Have you actually looked at his stats? He’s a 120 OPS+ bat.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
J.T. can turn anyone into a Gold Glove 1st Baseman!
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 15, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
they have bizarrely identical minor league stats.
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
Hmmm.....
That is interesting. That sad part, however, is that Sandoval’s arm trouble has severely hampered, and delayed, the evaluation of TI. Barring Sandoval’s injury, we would probably already know whether TI was a legitimate starter or not.
Unfortunately, this process is resuming at a bad time, as it seems the FO and manager have already given up on the guy.
by Squire_Boone on Jun 15, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions
in case anyone is curious
LaRoche:. 289/.359/.451/.810
Ishikawa: .261/.352/.454/.806
Not saying it means anything, as they probably played in very different run environments.
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
I almost spit out my coffee
because I thought those were Ishi’s 2009 stats. Only off by 140 points of OPS, give or take.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I think we pretty much already know that he isn’t
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve always hated LaRoche and if Pablo still can’t play third I don’t know what we’d do with him.
He’s been a second-half hitter over his career though and he’s probably among the more cost effective trade options. Another plus is his 1.227 OPS at the phone booth over his career.
….Ok so maybe it wouldn’t be such a bad move. I chalk up my hatred to him being a Brave for much of his career.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
not bad if we can get him for a sack of baseballs.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Wow, I was actually pondering the potential of going after either Adam LaRoche or Freddy Sanchez. I think the ideal thing about Pittsburgh is that we can “take one of these heavy contracts off their books”. Plus both of these guys play decent defense at 1B/2B respectively. I’d like to think that we could trade them a few young pitchers without having to use the names Bumgarner or Alderson.
Sanchez plus a reliever or young prospect pitcher? Would that get it done?
I think I pulled my swagger muscle...
I wonder what it would take to get Brian Roberts? He’s always in trade talks it seems and the Cubs deal for him fell apart in spring training. He’s a good leadoff man, plays good defense, has a pretty big price tag but he’d be a huge upgrade over the black hole that is Burriss.
If we could get him + a decent middle of the order bat we might have a really good shot at things.
lots – just signed an extension, O’s love him
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Jun 15, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Allow to me to continue my bizarre fascination with Ian Stewart. Plays 2nd and 3rd base, very good glove, current OPS of .903 away from Coors. His 12 HRs would lead the Giants right now. Although a) he’s a LHH and b) he hasn’t hit well at AT&T Park (sub-Burriss numbers) in extremely small sample size.
A month or two ago the Rockies might (emphasis on “might”) have actually listened to trade offers, since Clint Hurdle had no idea how or when to play him, but he’s taken off since Tracy took over as manager. He’s not a big bat, but he’s more of a long term solution.
"Are we bad? No. But right now, we are." Boulderskull, 4.16.09
I, too, can’t stop thinking about Ian Stewart. What’s not to like? I’m sure someone will find something, so bring it on – so I can get back to continuously thinking about Thomas Neal.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
What’s not to like is that the Rockies have no reason to trade him.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
Plus the strikeouts and not good scouting reports about his defense. Not to mention he’s never really hit anywhere except for obscene hitter parks/leagues since 2004.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Freddy Sanchez!
If it’s a Pittsburgh firesale he would be perfect. He’s owed 6.1M for ’09 with an 8M club option for ’10 that becomes guaranteed with 635 PAs. That seems a little rich for the Pirates.
Could work
the monies they save they could use to sign their draft picks and an international player or two
I’d love to see the Giants get Freddy Sanchez but after unloading Nady and McLouth in short order, if the Pirates traded away Sanchez their fans (and maybe their remaining players) would probably burn down PNC Park.
"Are we bad? No. But right now, we are." Boulderskull, 4.16.09
and they would be wrong
The McLouth trade is working out well for the Pirates thanks to McCutchen. The fans need to be patient and let Huntington work his magic.
the Pirates kicked the Braves ass in that McLouth trade
they sold high of McLouth, an average player, and got 3 very good prospects while opening up a spot for a better player in McCutchen.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 15, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Work your magic (of pillaging the Pirates) Sabean
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 15, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Dave Littlefield has left the building.
"Are we bad? No. But right now, we are." Boulderskull, 4.16.09
I know. But come on, it’s the Pirates.
“I’ll trade you this cool ass limited edition Go-Bot for that lame Optimus Prime you have in that box…”
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 15, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
If we are to get a hitter I would want to find a way to include Juan Uribe in the deal, he’s doing well but Frandsen could be doing the same thing and I feel bad for the kid.
My answer though would be rid Uribe in minor trade, drop Aurilia, add Jesus Guzman and John Bowker. For Guzman, spot starts and ALL starts against lefties either at 1B or the outfield. We have a surplus of outfielders, and all save K-Fred* are plus defenders. And Winn is making 9.6 million! In this economy, with that offensive production? Not getting our money’s worth. But there is a way. An outfield of Winn, Rowand, Guzman (when Guzman plays i’m not saying every day). Based on how likely said batter is to hit the ball to Jesus Guzman, he and Randy sprint and change positions in the outfield possible every new hitter. If the only thing holding Guzman back is his defensive, than -by golly- just switch with Winn so the ball goes to Winn instead who is obviously a great defender. The Man is making 9.6 million this year, it’s not too much to ask him to switch places in the outfield during at bat changes if it means maximizing his defensive ability and allowing Guzman’s bat into the lineup. So you potentially eliminate Guzman’s negative defense, while maximizing Winn’s plus defense.
Personally I think Barry Bonds needs to be added as a part time player this season to go for it all. For financial reasons, it will be pro-rated league minimum without giving up anything. And you get Barry Bonds. Dammmmn that’s a steal.
So either Bonds starts, gets 2 at bats, then replaced for defense (Schierholtz/Winn/Lewis/Guzman/Bowker/Torres we got the outfield depth this year to use them frivolously and still get legit defense. Or, the other way around. Or save Barry as a pinch hitter in RBI situations late in games. And always, ALWAYS have someone else out there in left for the 9th.
Adding the bats of Bonds, Guzman and Bowker would make our offense at the very least NOT dead last in scoring runs. And since already we have the 3rd best record in the N.L. and a 21-9 record at home, we could be legit. Too me it seems a waste to FINALLY have a team this year to complement Barry Bonds, yet he’s not on the team. Some time in July, take the man back. We need each other.
Keeping on SWOOPing in the free world! Also, by the reflexive property of the rubber/glue playground comeback, I enjoy wearing hats on my ass.
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jun 15, 2009 4:38 PM PDT reply actions
Jameer Nelson is cool. I think I saw him at the HP pavillion like 3 or 4 years ago a double header of Cal/Stanford B-ball. Is he the one who went to St. Josephs. He had a good game then, and he’s pretty good now.
I’m probably completely missing the analogy, but yea.
Keeping on SWOOPing in the free world! Also, by the reflexive property of the rubber/glue playground comeback, I enjoy wearing hats on my ass.
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jun 15, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
The only thing is Bonds is not game ready. He’s still rehabbing from hip surgery.
At this point, probably still would be the best hitter in the lineup
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 15, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I doubt Bonds could step in and hit better than Panda, Rowand and Winn.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Pablo I could see but it’s hard for me to believe he couldn’t do better than Winn and Rowand over an entire season.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
The K-Fred nickname should be banned.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
How about we don’t give a nice, hardworking guy a negative nickname at all?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Your nickname is bad and you should feel bad.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Disagree.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
I’m pretty sure you can think of something more clever than that.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Damn… I wish. I mean, it’s not like I want Fred to do bad. It’s just I really don’t think he knows how to play baseball and that’s a big deal, he’s athletically talented no doubt, I just don’t see him putting it all together.
He’s had time to develop and he just hasn’t. I just don’t think it’s possible for him to become a solid player. This was really the year that he needed to iron out the frays in my opinion.
The ops is fine but there are so many fundamental problems in his game.
Sorry JPon, you’re one of my favorite posters but we just aren’t going to agree on this one. I’m over Fred Lewis.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, n/a on a stat sheet.
BBk supports Sleepy's Law: "As a hoops discussion grows longer, the probability of an absurd trade proposal involving LeBron James approaches 1."
Is Alex Rios available? I’ve always liked Rios, even though I didn’t like want to trade Lincecum for him. He’s a RHH with power who could play a nice RF for us.
That said, I’m still thinking we got where we are now despite a lot of poopy ABs from Burriss, Aurilia and Ishi. We can do better than that from within, so I don’t want to trade too much of our future away.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
You know what’s kind of cool? It doesn’t really matter which bat. The Giants need help at every position on the diamond, so ANY good hitter will help. You can shop around for whoever has a player they’re just giving away.
I’m not sure how a team that needs help at every position on the diamond can be intention, but there it is.
For me, any discussion of improving the offense has involves a three-step process:
1) Look for in-house options (Bowker and Guzman)
2) If in-house options don’t work (i.e. fail) seek long-term trade (Brandon Wood, etc.)
3) All else failing, look for quality, but cheap, hitter (Dye, Huff, maybe LaRoche, etc.)
Shin-soo Choo?
Hes 27, plays RF and LF
is batting .288, 8 HR and 9 SBs. Not a really powerful guy, but well rounded, and I think the Indians might be interested in pitching.
Id be happy with Uglla or Holliday too though
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 15, 2009 6:53 PM PDT reply actions
Not exactly sure where he fits on this team right now, but I like Choo a lot.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Ya, I mean i guess were kind of stuffed with OFs
But I would like to trade Winn at the deadline, but then that still leaves Schierholtz and Bowker, so I dont know
just thought id throw it out there
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 15, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Choo is incredibly good, few ppl have caught on to that yet. He is a destroyer in cbs fantasy (lol cbs)
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jun 15, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not?
29, good power, horrible defensively (If i remember correctly), but still a good hitter
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 15, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Fielder for Kane?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
Hmm
Part of me really wonders what it would be like to bring back Bonds. Can you imagine the media blitz?
Anyway, back to reality.
I like the idea of a shorter term solution ONLY if the price is congruent with the talent and time spent. No Sanchez for Johnson, but maybe something else. No LHH if we need a power bat unless they go oppo a lot.
Somehow, I feel trading for Holliday would be awful for us and Sabean would be taken for a ride. Too many teams seem to be clamoring for him and he’s an expensive rental. LaRoche seems to be a decent option as i haven’t heard as much about him as Johnson or Holliday. No DeRosa either unless he can be had for a steal, and he won’t be.
Let the Mets and Yankees have their Holliday and DeRosa. Swoop in and gnab the second tier of talent and we will not only get a better deal, but maybe we can get a couple of them.
If it looks too ridiculous as far as pricing goes, why not use this opportunity to trade Sanchez for a sure-fire AAA power bat and a starter?
GINAS BRAZZZZZ
Swoop in and gnab the second tier of talent and we will not only get a better deal, but maybe we can get a couple of them.
I thought our OF was already full of second tier talent.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
seriously
thats the last thing we need
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 16, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
FYI, Pirates are now dead last in homeruns
Giants are now gunning for Mets, Dodgers in bombers hit.
Mo'ped Money, Mo'ped Problems
Mets?
really?
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 16, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions

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