The Bengie Molina Paradox - or why the RBI totals don't matter
by Aadik on Jun 11, 2009 9:19 AM PDT
317 comments
There was an interesting discussion going on in this thread about the penalty of Bengie's base running, with the caveat offered by the original poster that he's still percieved Bengie as a good player and a good hitter. Suffice to say, I think this is broadly wrong, for a multitude of reasons, and I thought I'd bring it out here. Basically, much as we like Bengie, he's just not that great. In fact, I venture that Fred Lewis is a significantly more valuable player than Bengie Molina to the 2009 SF Giants, a fact that makes the Damon Bruce crowd go broke.
First, DINGERS.EXE aside, I present to you the basic line, per ESPN:
.256/.264/.436, for an OPS of .700.
Ponder that OBP for a second; Bengie has the 4th lowest OBP in baseball amongst qualifiers; 168th out of 172 hitters. No matter how much you slug, its very very hard to overcome that hurdle, a lesson most people understood 10 years ago. Bengie's Slugging percentage (at .436) is slightly above league average, but on an overall basis, the value doesn't add up. Don't believe me by slash alone? Take the advanced stat of your choice; looking purely at offensive contribution.
wRC (from Fangraphs) - in simple terms, how many runs have they created this year? In raw totals alone, Bengie Molina has been less impressive than many of our (sometimes deserved whipping boys) such as Lewis and Edgar.
the second stat (also not position adjusted) is wRAA, how has this person performed as compared to the average hitter in the league; therfore, you can see why Juan Uribe has only contributed about 14 wRC to the giants, he has been a slightly above average hitter when he has played; once again, the only Giants regular who's been significantly worse than Bengie Molina is Manny Burriss.
Player Position wRC wRAA
| Aaron Rowand | OF | 34.7 | 8.1 | |||||||||||
| Pablo Sandoval | 3B | 30.7 | 5.6 | |||||||||||
| Randy Winn | OF | 30.3 | 1.8 | |||||||||||
| Fred Lewis | OF | 24.5 | 0.3 | |||||||||||
| Edgar Renteria | SS | 19.2 | -6.0 | |||||||||||
| Bengie Molina | C | 18.9 | -7.0 | |||||||||||
| Emmanuel Burriss | 2B | 15.4 | -9.3 | |||||||||||
| Juan Uribe | 3B | 14.1 | 0.6 | |||||||||||
| Travis Ishikawa | 1B | 12.5 | -2.7 | |||||||||||
| Andres Torres | OF | 4.2 | 0.8 | |||||||||||
| Rich Aurilia | 1B | 3.8 | -5.8 | |||||||||||
| Nate Schierholtz | OF | 2.9 | -5.5 | |||||||||||
| Matt Cain | P | 1.8 | -1.5 |
Okay, you say - what about positional adjustment? Surely Bengie's C as a C, has a lower baseline than that of Fred playing LF? Well, to again use the simplist positional adjustment metric, lets use VORP from BP; essentially, the value over a replacement scrub at the given position, offensively. VORP isn't directly comparable with wRC above because the baseline assumption isn't 0, but its still fairly low. Again, we see the same point; while BP's pitcher values for VORP may be insanely low (in fact, I think they may be 0) in fact, Matt Cain has contributed more offensive value to the Giants than Bengie, and Bengie's offensive value is essentially equivalent to that of Osris Matos (1 AB, a triple, is essentially 1 run of value above replacement). If that doesn't sum up his value, I'm not sure what does.
| Aaron Rowand | SFN | cf | 16.6 | |||||||||||||||
| 2. | Pablo Sandoval | SFN | 3b | 14.2 | ||||||||||||||
| 3. | Randy Winn | SFN | rf | 7.4 | ||||||||||||||
| 4. | Juan Uribe | SFN | 3b | 5.4 | ||||||||||||||
| 5. | Fred Lewis | SFN | lf | 3.8 | ||||||||||||||
| 6. | Matt Cain | SFN | p | 2.3 | ||||||||||||||
| 7. | Edgar Renteria | SFN | ss | 1.5 | ||||||||||||||
| 8. | Andres Torres | SFN | lf | 1.4 | ||||||||||||||
| 9. | Jeremy Affeldt | SFN | p | 0.9 | ||||||||||||||
| 10. | Osiris Matos | SFN | p | 0.9 | ||||||||||||||
| 11. | Bengie Molina | SFN | c | 0.8 |
Now clearly, there are 2 aspects I haven't measured above - baserunning and defense. Baserunning can be crudely estimated with a basic run matrix; using BP's statistics, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Bengie is the worst baserunner in baseball; last year, he was agout a -7 run player vs the average and this year, he's a -3 run player; conversly,Fred Lewis is a +3 runner this year. Over this year, the baserunning value differential between Fred and Bengie alone should be worth at least a couple of wins (~20 runs), and maybe more.
So that leaves us with defense;with the full caveat that its probably way too early in the season to use UZR's or your defensive metric of choice, Fred Lewis has a UZR of 0.8; his UZR/150 is 4.2, suggesting that he's about 4 runs better defensively than your average LF (IT was 3.5 last year, so I'm willing to accept this is a reasonable sample). Now C defense is brutal to measure (and many defense metrics just throw up their hands and pass), but I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue Bengie is elite at this; ignoring poor metrics like his CS% (which is 19.2%, per THT), let us assume optismitically that Bengie is at least as good defensively as Fred; ie, so far this year, he's been a +1 defensive player so we can take that off the tabel.
Fred Lewis has created more runs than Bengie Molina (wRC); when he's played, he's been a more productive player than Bengie Molina (wRAA), and even adjusting for positional scarcity, he's been a better hitter (by VORP), although not my much. When we further take base running into account, Fred Lewis is a better player.
The broader point here though is not that about Lewis; this is very simplistic, quick and dirty summary with reasonable holes to pick (ie, Fred sitting against LHP improves his wRAA, for example), but mainly to raise this point - whatever metric you use, Bengie Molina is probably the 2nd worst regular on the Giants; Manny Burris is the only guy who has done less. Adjusting for positional scarcity (but not for defense) even Edgar Renteria (he of the immortal .259/.330/.333 line) has been a better or equivalent offensive player to Bengie.
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Steve Holm!
Pablo to Catcher when his arm gets better? :)
by FairweatherFan on Jun 11, 2009 9:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Pablo Sandoval
if a catcher, making his first all-star game in July?
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jun 11, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ideas. Intriguing. Newsletter.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jun 11, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FRED LEWIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM
Yeah, it’s glaringly obvious at this point that Molina just isn’t very good this year, but I bet he’ll be hitting cleanup until at least August. And Fred will continue to lose playing time.
Now, this would be a time that I’d absolutely LOVE to trade him. I think he would still have some decent value since NL Catchers have been so bad. But of course we’re “contending” so it’ll never happen.
Question: IF FRED IS SO GOOD WHY DOES HE ONLY HAVE 8 RBIZZZZ? OBVIOUSLY MOLINA IS CLUTCH (.202 AVG W/ RISP) AND FRED SUCKS.
Uh, I was going to go look at Fred’s splits w/ RISP on bb-ref but apparently the splits page thinks he’s only played 17 games this season.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s hitting .175 with RISP, btw. But with a .340 OBP.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he’s only had RISP in 17 games?
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Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
by kennv on Jun 11, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, the splits page appears to be messed up for everyone right now. I’m sure they’ll fix it up.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering why Randy Johnson started 5 games this year
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by merkin on Jun 11, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering Bochy can barely give him a rest because he thinks it will hurt the Giants chances of winning
I don’t think there is a chance in Hades that Molina is getting traded. Ditto with being moved out of the cleanup spot. Apparently, GI-Ants Brass thinks that Molina is the best hitter on the team.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
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by thehavenot on Jun 11, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Christ almighty, and Bengie wants an extension
Ay dios mio
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by TexasRanger on Jun 11, 2009 9:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's going to be a type A free agent
I see no reason for the Giants to sign him to an extension when they can simply offer him Arbitration.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he's only a Type B
I’d still hope to get the picks and run.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
Posey won’t start next year, and I’d rather have Bengie than any other catcher on the roster for a year.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather put Pablo back there. I think Posey will be ready by June or July of ’10.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Posey is more of a September 10 guy
I don’t want the Giants to start his ML service / arbitration clock.
Here is a list of those who played the shortest amount of time in the minors:
Player Games
Matt Wieters (BAL) 169
Chris Iannetta (COL) 236
Ivan Rodriguez (HOU) 271
Chris Snyder (ARI) 281
Yadier Molina (StL) 297
Brian McCann (ATL) 304
Kurt Suzuki (OAK) 314
Nick Hundley (SDG) 316
Joe Mauer (MIN) 346
Wieter was rushed. He sould have done better as a September callup this year. Posey is no different. He needs to learn to call his own game, and then he needs to learn to hit with a wood bat.
Posey in 2011. until then, I want Pablo at 1B because his bat is so valuable and there is no reason to develop him at the catcher position.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
This is a good argument, though I don’t really think Wieters was rushed. He’s off to a slow start but he’ll start hitting soon.
We’ll see how Bengie looks at the end of the year. If he’s still at current levels (or even slightly better… or worse), I don’t think it would make sense to bring him back at the kind of money he’d be getting.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agreed with you until you said you wanted Pablo at 1B. Why not at 3B? It appears he can handle the more-challenging defensive position, so why not 3B? Also, he’s too short for 1B!
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by Lyle on Jun 12, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BODY BIAS
Seriously though, I’m fine with eitehr first or 3rd. I just think the Giants long term has to be looking at Gillaspie / Frandsen / Crawford for 3B in 2010, and that leaves Sandoval at 1B. If he can stick at 3B and we get another hitter for 1B? great.
Time for Bowkermania?
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Villalona is a much, much better prospect than any of those guys.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 12, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt
Villalona also ain’t going to be sniffing MLB for 3 years. At least. When Villalona comes up Pablo will be into his arbitration contract already.
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you said long term.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 12, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 years to me
is pretty damn long term <.<
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Crawford is not going to play 3B.
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:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 12, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I admit it is a reach. But it made my argument sound better!!
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m already thinking Crawford ends up at 3B, assuming his hitting maintains pace and assuming Chris Dominguez doesn’t just blow up this year and next.
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by Lyle on Jun 13, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford is a plus defensive SS, someone else will play 3rd.
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by marcello on Jun 13, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, if Crawford’s contact issues don’t prevent him from playing in the majors, it’ll likely be because his SS glove kept him there.
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by Roger on Jun 13, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering he’s now hitting about .270/.330/.380 in AA, I sure hope he’s going to play SS.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 13, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we bring up Crawford..
We move Rent to 3rd
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by Azmanz on Jun 12, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what if he accepts and gets PAID? Yikes.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Jun 11, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One year of Bengie
is a good thing for the Giants (if he is not batting cleanup). Somebody has to hold this together.
sandoval will wear down as a catcher because he is simply too big. I want to save his knees at 1B or 3B.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you not read the OP? Bengie is NOT good for the Giants. He hurts them offensively and that is compounded by Bochy insisting he is a clean-up hitter.
by positiveuphemism on Jun 11, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is the cleanup hitter
he bats fourth in almost every game
therefore
Bengie Molina is the Ginats cleanup hitter.
Botchy knows all, that’s why his head is fat.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jun 11, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina had a 29.3 RAR last year
and 19 RAR the year before that. I believe we are cherry picking the worst point in his season to make judgement.
All I’m saying is, one year of Bengie Molina is better than one year of Eli Whiteside or Steve Holm. Now if somebody wants to give me a first round pick and a sandwich pick? More power to them.
I’m trying to make the argument for offering him arbitration.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand, Bengie is 34 now and catchers have been known to fall off pretty quickly around this point. Especially if they’re overweight catchers with a lot of mileage.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A valid point
Not dismissing that, I just think that should not discourage the team from offering him arbitration.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have to offer him arb
It would be foolish not to, unless he COMPLETELY falls off a cliff before the end of the year. They could offer him arbitration, but let him know that there is the possibility that he could lose playing time to Posey once he’s ready. Odds are, some other team will offer him a starting gig anyway.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 11, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure how many teams would want Molina if he really is awful this year, for the reasons stated above. He is getting old, and he’s not exactly the most fit player.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
by giants9107 on Jun 13, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree fyi
I think it may not be a bad gamble, as I could see other teams looking at this like Sabean, but I have to believe an OBP of .260 at year end would scare anyone with a brain off.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jun 11, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially if they’re overweight underheight catchers
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by leftymalo on Jun 11, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sandoval will wear down as a catcher because he is simply too big. I want to save his knees at 1B or 3B.
I’ll never understand why people think Sandoval can’t catch. Because he’s big? So? He’s been a great catcher whenever he’s been allowed to play back there.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 11, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the point is that smaller catchers hold up better — guys like Bengie Molina.
by Rick Parker (Lewis) Can't Lose on Jun 11, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
golf clap
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jun 11, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, but….. oh.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Jun 12, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
from Basball America
One of the other problems Sandoval’s size presents is the strain it puts on his body. Starting behind the plate for a full season takes a toll on any catchers’ knees, and Sandoval’s size means his knees might take more of a beating than usual.
“He could catch, but he’s not going to do miracles there,” said one scout. "He might develop into an average major league catcher, but my concern is how well he keeps himself in shape. He can play third base a little bit, but his range is going to be limited because he’s going to get bigger, and as his body matures, he’ll be a heavyset kind of guy.
“He’s a good offensive player, but if he plays first base, he could be a great offensive player,” the scout added. “If he goes to catch, that’s probably going to hurt his offense. He could pull it off, but I just have the feeling that it might hurt his chances on offense because it gets tiring squatting and getting up all the time; it’s a very demanding position. But the guy can definitely hit.”
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So one scout thinks he might take more of a beating on his knees. I’m sold. From that same article:
Over the last couple of weeks, we’ve seen that Sandoval has ranked as one of the game’s best at erasing base stealers the last two seasons and only committed nine passed balls per 120 games in 2008. And that’s despite playing only one game at catcher between 2005-2006
Before 6-foot-4 Cal Ripken Jr., there were only a handful of shortstops in baseball history who were at least 6-foot-3. Since then, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Troy Tulowitzki and Hanley Ramirez have come along.
Scouts say Sandoval has trouble physically crouching down low enough to get into proper catching position, and his size limits his agility. Yet so far he seems to have been able keep the ball in front of him. Was it the pitching staff in high Class A San Jose making him look good? Sandoval and Jackson Williams each caught around 50 games for San Jose, yet Williams committed 11 passed balls compared to Sandoval’s four.
All Sandoval has done is show that he can catch when given the chance. This is the “Lincecum needs to be a reliever because he’s too small and will break down” arguments all over again.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 11, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I accept your argument
I think it can be argued both ways, and with Posey ready to go in 2011, I’m more inclined to not risk Sandoval catching and damaging his long term value.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted him to be a catcher, but he looks okay at third, he probably even has the bat for first, and Posey is coming up fast. Pablo as a catcher is a thing of the past.
by Evan on Jun 11, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is probably the reality of the situation.
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by cornball on Jun 11, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that Sandoval would be the heaviest starting catcher in MLB history doesn’t mean that he absolutely couldn’t catch, but I think it’s a factor worthy of serious consideration
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 11, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt he'd be the heaviest starting catcher in MLB history.
MLB player weight reports are about as reliable as North Korean ICBMs. They claim that Sandoval weighs the same as David Wells, for god’s sake.
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by Bhaakon on Jun 11, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
How we have manged to win as many games as we have in the last month with an automatic out in the middle of the order?
How much better off would we be w/ Pablo batting cleanup and Molina batting 8th?
by FairweatherFan on Jun 11, 2009 9:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Remember those Padre games…we’d have won two of them, at least.
by positiveuphemism on Jun 11, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina batting 8th could be perfect. Think of those “expand the zone” situations. He’s already there, no adjustment needed.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 11, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but imagine those poor pitchers trying to bunt him over to 2nd. You’d have to drop an absolutely perfect bunt every time to avoid a double play.
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by EliminateMe on Jun 11, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh lordy, I didn’t even think of that. I don’t know if he could be sacrificed to 2nd ever.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 11, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you timed a pitcher 1st to home vs Molina 2nd to home, I am not sure there would be much difference
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by merkin on Jun 11, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least Bengie has that 6th tool, leadership, that guys like Beltran and Wright sorely lack.
Judgment Day is coming
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by Natto on Jun 11, 2009 9:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Leadership would have given Wright a double past Werth yesterday. Only because he lacked leadership was that an out.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
That is why the Giants are winning.
It isn’t about “numbers” or “production.” High OBP just clogs the bases.
It’s about that special ability to will your team to victory.
by DesertFox on Jun 11, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who incidentally usually posts high OBP’s
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 11, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This post would have looked pretty different a month ago
I agree in general that some people value Bengie too highly, but I think it’s also fair to say that until very recently he was in the middle of a horrible slump. Let’s check back at the end of the season and see where he ends up.
by cakes on Jun 11, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Funny how a month ago
Most people were ready to DFA Rowand and eat his contract.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A month ago he was in the middle of a horrible slump too…
I’d tell you about it but bb-ref is all messed up right now :(
But his numbers in May were pretty horrible, as have been the numbers in June so far.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that Bengie’s career numbers are not good either. His career OPS+ is 87.
by mxmob33 on Jun 11, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would LOVE it if they traded Molina
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by hairball on Jun 11, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sign me up. He may not be healthy that much longer either.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 11, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is right about league average for a catcher.
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by EliminateMe on Jun 11, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think one of the big reasons that Bengie doesn’t raise as much ire from the fans, is that it’s pretty clear at this point that he’ll be gone after this season, and we have a promising young replacement already lined up. That, and it’s not like there’s an extremely better option for cleanup hitter just sitting around on the bench somewhere.
The thing that does bug me about Molina is just how much he slows down the rest of the team on the basepaths. I’d like to see him bat lower in the lineup, perhaps 7th (I’d say 8th, but I fear he wouldn’t be able to advance safely on a bunt), and just put as much speed as possible all in a row in the middle of the lineup. It’s not like we’re the fastest team around, but with how crappy our offense has been, I’d like to see them run more and get aggressive on the bases to make something happen.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 11, 2009 10:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, there is Pablo. I think the current lineup should be something like:
Rowand
Lewis
Winn
Sandoval
Uribe
Molina
Renteria
Frandsen
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to give that a try for a while. I might swap Winn and Rowand, but it does look better than what we’ve been going with.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 11, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know lineup order doesn’t really mean anything in terms of how well a player hits, but the Rowand thing is going so well I don’t want to screw it up.
I still can’t believe that since Barry retired, Bengie hasn’t started a single game batting anywhere other than cleanup.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pretty sure
Sandoval batted clearnup one game on this roadtrip and Bengie batted 5th
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think so. When Sandoval is batting cleanup, it’s a day off for Molina.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 11, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap, is that true? You’d think they would have tried someone else at cleanup in at least one game, sometime, somewhere…
As for Rowand leadoff, I agree that I wouldn’t want to screw with it right now… I would just like to see some of those doubles he’s been hitting lately come with a runner or two on base. Oh well.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 11, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I looked at his splits the other day and was shocked. Every single GS came batting 4th the past two years.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
…and that sums up my case for the firing of Bruce Bochy.
by positiveuphemism on Jun 11, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
That just boggles my mind. Especially this year, where Pablo looks like a decent option for that spot (not great, but better than Bengie for sure).
by The Double Deuce on Jun 11, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LURN TEH MATHZ!!!
Seriously, I think Bochy only looks at the number of homers. Nevermind the fact that Molina is literally swinging for the fences every single at-bat, which is not really the greatest strategy, cleanup spot be damned.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Jun 11, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly believe Bochy doesn't understand
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jun 11, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll tell you why he doesn't draw the ire...
AND why he bats cleanup. Ready for the biggest surprise of your life?
He’s the team leader in both DINGERZ and RBIZZZ.
Most people will look at those two stats and think, “Hey, he’s not much, but he’s the closest looking thing we have to a cleanup hitter on this team.” That’s it. The OP did a fantastic job of showing why he’s really not that valuable, but the majority of fans aren’t that into non-HR/RBI stats. Bochy should be, but… Apparently he’s not.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jun 11, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This just in
Bat anyone else in the lineup in that spot, and they would probably lead the team in RBI.
by FairweatherFan on Jun 11, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is actually
very true.
A lot of the hits he gets are yoked, and worthy of doubles and clearing the basepaths, but he’s not fast enough to stretch it into doubles.
So his slugging percentage is kept down.
If he were faster, not only would the Giants score more runs, but his batting average would be way higher, as would his slugging percentage.
Strictly concerning his bat, he’s the best hitter on the team hands down.
But all offensive aspects considered, yeh, he’s not as valuable as the other players.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 11, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's the best hitter on the team
Bat only or otherwise. I consider Rowand, Sandoval, and likely Lewis to all be better hitters than Molina.
Probably Winn too.
by FairweatherFan on Jun 11, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably Nate too
But hell if we’ll ever know for sure
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 11, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who?
by FairweatherFan on Jun 11, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ladies and Gentlemen
A Nate Schierholtz Sighting
CF Rowand
RF Schierholtz
3B Uribe
1B Sandoval
LF Lewis
SS Frandsen
C Whiteside
2B Burriss
P Sanchez
Per bags
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shiny cleanup hitter is shiny
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Jun 11, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Bochy thinks that Uribe is a better hitter than Sandoval? Huh.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jun 11, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giants lineups are not like regular teams’ lineups.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 11, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that you posted this after they played the game.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on Jun 12, 2009 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Molina had the speed of Jeff Kent
His BA would likely be close to .280 (with his current struggles), and his slugging percentage would be pushing .500.
Last season his BA would have been well over .300.
This would help with his OPS as well, likely pushing it around .800 or higher the past 3 seasons.
But it’s been his speed alone that has hurt these numbers.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 11, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
Let’s face it.
We put Molina’s bat on Fred Lewis’ body, and we have a really good hitter.
Even with the lack of patience at the plate, it would be one of those Pablo Sandoval things… “It’s just who he is.” And we’d love him all the same.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 11, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong
Pablo has, yes, more of an idea at the plate than 1-walk all season Bengie.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Jun 11, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 walks!
Get it right or pay the price!
by The Double Deuce on Jun 11, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...
Then we’d hate our guy who has an .800 OPS, .300 BA and .550 SLG and leads our team in HR.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 11, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
those numbers don’t quite add up right.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Jun 11, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They do if his OBP is lower than his average, which seems pretty likely to me!
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on Jun 11, 2009 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
High
.800 OPS
Closer to .880
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 13, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if I looked like Leonardo DiCaprio, I’d be dating supermodels.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 11, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what if you looked like Derek Jeter?
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Movie starlets.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 11, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That begs the question
Jessica Alba, would you?
If it means Herpes? (and knowing that you got it 2nd hand from Jeter)
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any New Yorker.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 11, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
all those singles Molina hits that are really doubles still drive in more runs than your average single. His numbers don’t get credit for this (except for RBI totals).
by ktice on Jun 11, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Which is why I believe his bat alone is the best on the team, but his total offensive value is not as good as the others.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 11, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone but Fred Lewis
/ducks
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 11, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
by definition
because he’s so bloody hard to drive in; he never has to drive himself in
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jun 11, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point exactly. But again, and apparently this might also just be in… The majority of fans don’t pay attention to many stats beyond AVG/HR/RBI. And thus… The ire has not been drawn, since Bengie leads the team in HR/RBI.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Jun 11, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A point that I wish many others would get
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jun 11, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a good read btw
Thank you for putting this together.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 10:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
np
Pet peeve of mine; I like Bengie, I think he’s a good guy, but compared to the hate that a Fred Lewis gets, I think he’s remarkably overrated.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jun 11, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, Aadik?
I don’t perceive much hate for Fred Lewis here. In fact, I see irrational love for the guy (sorry, Jenny). It seems pretty clear that the NL pitchers have made the last adjustment to Lewis, and he has yet to make the adjustment to that adjustment. One could easily argue that sending him to AAA wouldn’t allow him to make that adjustment against ML pitchers. On the other hand, Mr. Bowker deserves his shot in the bigs and Fred is weighing us down. It is a decision the FO has apparently already made, although I would disagree.
In full disclosure, I’ve never been convinced of Lewis’ baseball ability. How many “late-bloomers” actually turn out to have decent ML careers? And should we assume that last year was the baseline and that this year is the aberration, or vice versa? Color me skeptical.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Jun 13, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was talking about MS media, not McC.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on Jun 13, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what Cookyman said
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jun 13, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ Mayor
Although I would say that I am not terribly optimistic about Mr. Bowker.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Jun 13, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to point out again that just a week ago he was at .790, he still leads the team in runs scored and he’s in a one for seventeen skid… I just don’t think it’s anywhere near time to give up on him. And the fact that both him and Schierholtz are out of options makes it more difficult to just call up Bowker… I mean, I sure hope that people aren’t so down on Lewis that they want to just get rid of him altogether.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 13, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If this is true
Why aren’t people constantly complaining about Bengie taking time away from Eli Whiteside and Steve Holm?
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 11, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Because those two aren’t that great.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 11, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Holm isn't so bad... ML Career .333 wOBA
as opposed to Molinia’s current .296 and career .311
by FairweatherFan on Jun 11, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty limited sample size, though.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 11, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but so is the sample in which Molina has been putrid.
Plus, Holm hit that home run once…
by FairweatherFan on Jun 11, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But surely they could be better
than second worst on the team.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 11, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not. Actually, I would mind Holm getting more PT than he’s gotten (all of 7 ABs this year?)
I would bet that a big part of why Bengie is struggling is that he plays every freakin’ game.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*wouldn't mind
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I wanted Steve Holm to get more starts when he was up with the ML team. I kept forgetting that he was on the team. I guess Bochy did too.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 11, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
I know what you’re getting at and
1) Bengie has a much better major league track record than Burriss (who doesn’t even have a good minor league track record)
2) Holm and Whiteside are both career journeyman minor leaguers. Whiteside has a career minor league OPS of .681 and Holm .716.
It’s not the same situation as Burriss vs Frandsen at all.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed this is true
I however wouldn’t mind seeing Holm called up and given a bit more playing time. Maybe Molina is just worn out?
Ideally I would like to see Pablo playing C and TI back at 1b while Uribe stays hot.
by FairweatherFan on Jun 11, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like this idea
but what about the ELBOW!!!!!!?
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
by kennv on Jun 11, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in all seriousness
Bengie gotta go.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Jun 11, 2009 11:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope they’re shopping him around, but I doubt it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 11, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
contrary to popular belief
PR is important. Just ask the Pirates GM.
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many capital letters
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on Jun 11, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
Molina is exhibiting even less plate discipline than Pablo this year – swinging at 49% of pitches out of the zone.
by FairweatherFan on Jun 11, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Giants won't trade him because you don't trade your cleanup hitter
but I think the Mets, Phillies, Red Sox and Yankees all would have interest. Plus, he wouldn’t be hitting cleanup on any of those teams, so his suckitude would hurt less.
Of course, the team could take a chance that he doesn’t accept arbitration, but with his body and injury history and age, having him stay healthy isn’t guaranteed. Sell high (or as high as possible)
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 11, 2009 11:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The average fan doesn't understand the difference
Btw, this morning Damon Bruce stepped in for Radnich and actually talked about trading Zack Wheeler or Jonathan Sanchez for a bat.
I nearly fell out of my car. I mean, how does someone in his position not know a player cannot be traded until 1 year after he signs? And the PTBNL rule only extends out 90 days?
If he is that ignorant, how do you expect the majority of the fans to react if we trade Bengie?
by jctGamer on Jun 11, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damon Bruce proves his baseball ignorance pretty much every time I listen to him. It’s remarkable.
Same with Ralph. At least Tolbert realizes he doesn’t know a lot about baseball and keeps his mouth shut for the most part. Ralph and Damon, not so much.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 11, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, that is awesome. Damon Bruce with more unintentional comedy
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 11, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don’t even need all those obscure rules to expose that level of stupidity — how can you trade someone who’s not yet a part of your organization?
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jun 12, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
tell that to Nate McClouth
"I would've been here sooner but I had to shake the Veleasels"
by The Gene Hackman on Jun 11, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also take note of this
Entering Wednesday, here is where every major league team ranks in walks out of the No.4 spot:
Washington 46
Milwaukee 45
Tampa Bay 43
Chicago Sox 41
Boston 37
NY Yankees 37
NY Mets 37
Chicago Cubs 35
Cleveland 34
San Diego 32
LA Dodgers 31
Texas 29
Pittsburgh 29
Colorado 28
LA Angels 27
Minnesota 27
Arizona 27
Oakland 25
Baltimore 24
Detroit 24
Kansas City 24
Atlanta 24
Philadelphia 24
Cincinnati 23
St. Louis 23
Toronto 22
Houston 20
Florida 19
Seattle 14
SAN FRANCISCO 3
per Baggs.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 11, 2009 11:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And I think 2 of those are non-Bengie
He still has just one, right?
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Jun 11, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my bad
only 33% are non-Bengie (he has 2 walks, I have been told).
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Jun 11, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike all those times when
He’s totaled his double!
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Jun 11, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post....
As an aside note, RARP > VORP
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 11, 2009 11:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
.264 OBP! Our cleanup hitter has a .264 OBP!
Just phenomenal.
by Evan on Jun 11, 2009 11:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's almost worthy of being framed.
It’s the new “Baxter eats a whole wheel of cheese and poops in the fridge”
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Jun 11, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is unbelievable.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jun 11, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
only because he learned how to win
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on Jun 11, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BABIP.
I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..
by lmaozedong on Jun 11, 2009 12:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s 20 points under his career average, it’s really not that much of a difference.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 11, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lewis’ BABIP is like .355, and while this is somewhat in line with his career numbers, I doubt he has the same abnormal BABIP-defying skills that Ichiro has.. I’d expect it to be slightly lower since Lewis doesn’t have the advantage of being able to run toward 1B while swinging (I wish I could compare Home-1B times, but I don’t have them on me)
I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..
by lmaozedong on Jun 11, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post. My only complain is that it contains too much irrefutable logic.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Jun 11, 2009 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
In my mind FYI
The fact that Matt Cain’s offensive value exceeds that of Bengie is what really makes the deal, IMO. If we must play Bengie, it seems to me that he ought to be dropped to 8th in the order; he does have the 2nd highest ISO on our team and if he’s not going to show plate discipline anyway, might as well have the pitcher bat after him.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jun 11, 2009 1:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have nothing to back this up
but his defense sucks too. Our pitchers suck at holding runners on but Molinas arm is terrible. Even when the pitchers give him time, he air mails the throw or bounces it in front of the second basemen.
He did a better job at blocking balls this year but he’s been terrible overall, since joining the team. It would infuriate me seeing, what were really PB, turned in to WP by the official scorer because Bengie didn’t know how to block a damn ball.
by superk1ng on Jun 11, 2009 2:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the defense is not so good. He definitely struggles with FBs up.
To be fair, the Giants pitching staff do a mediocre job of holding runners. The pitchers seemed to have gotten better recently, but still make it difficult for any catcher to throw out base runners.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jun 11, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why You Are Wrong And Freddie (Not Bengie) Has Been The Worse Of These Two Thus Far
I did a little research and here is what I have found. Fred Lewis thus far has had 41 ABs or SFs with 47 runners in scoring position and he has only driven in 4 of them. This is less then 10% and could be historicly bad. This is what the Giants are so concerned about with regards to Mr Lewis.
Here are the numbers for the Giants with at least 20 ABs+SFs with runners in scoring position. Please note that RISP is number of runners on 2B or 3B in ABs+SFs while RBI is the number of these runners and just these runners (not runners on 1B or the batter) driven in. Also note that I combined the two backup outflelders (Schierholtz and Torres) to provide a comparision to what I see as the likely replacement for Mr Lewis’ suckitude.
Player————————RISP——-RBI———-%
Molina————————-84———-24———-28
Sandoval———————68———-17———-25
Rowand———————-61———-19———-31
Renteria———————-58———-18———-31
Winn—————————54———-21———-39
Burriss————————56———-12———-21
Lewis————————-47————4————9
Ishikawa———————-39———-12———-31
Uribe—————————39———-10———-26
Aurilia————————-38———-10———-26
Schierholtz/Torres———21————6———-29
By the way, ignoring this is why wOBA, wRC, and wRAA and flawed stats.
This whole in Fredie’s game is far larger then the OBP whole in Bengie’s game.
by giantsrainman on Jun 11, 2009 9:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis Career OPS: .784
Fred Lewis Career OPS with RISP: .789
Basically, his ABs with RISP in 2009 is a very very small sample size. But apparently you (and the GIANTS BRASS!!1) think that his performance in the last two months is all they need to know.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jun 11, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes it's true
I have a theory that Fred Lewis is the victim of a gypsy curse that prevents him from getting hits with runners on base. The curse can only be used by eating Rich Aurillia’s heart. Raw. In front of 30,000 baseball fans.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Jun 11, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh used = cured
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Jun 11, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both work
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also quite possible
that he’s pressing in those situations.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 13, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you miss the post above?
Fred Lewis Career OPS: .784
Fred Lewis Career OPS with RISP: .789
by jctGamer on Jun 13, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I’m just saying that it’s possible that he’s pressing in those situations this season.
I think he’s definitely skilled enough, and has the track record to eventually even out the flukiness of his lack of RBI.
But it’s just his fielding and hitting this season has been clumsy, as if he were incredibly nervous while performing.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 13, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a fluke of small sample size FFS. 47 AB? COME ON.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 12, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not to say ...
that Fred isn’t slumping. BUT THE RBI TOTALS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. It’s the fact that his K-rate has increased and his power has mostly disappeared. The RBI thing follows from that, but Fred wasn’t having any problems back when he was hitting .300 with a .400+ OBP and his RBI totals were still poor.
And I still think it’s ridiculous that every single person who lambastes him for his poor RBI totals just sort of pretends he doesn’t lead the team in runs scored. Why are runs scored ignored while RBI are held up as super important? I will never know.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 12, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here You Are Talking About Cause But I (and I think this thread) Am Talking About Results
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 2:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And clearly, runs aren't results?
Seriously?
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jun 12, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Discussion Is About Thus Far This Season
I am using all the data available. I acknowledged Freddie’s advantage in OBP thus far but in my judgement Bengie’s advantage with RISP thus far has (as I showed) been greater.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie, for all of his “advantage” is still only hitting ~.200 with RISP.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 12, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, He Has A 19% Advantage In Driving In Runners In Scoring Position Which Is In Fact A Hugh Advantage!
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grant?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 12, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jorgan?
Tommy Lasorda HATES GIANTSBOARD.COM
Giantsboard Blog Because everyone needs a blog
Say Hey! Say Who? Say Willie, that Giant Kid is Great!
by merkin on Jun 12, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ftw
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
There's 3 ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power/ Ginats Way...
by natteringnabob on Jun 12, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wOBA, wRC, and wRAA are so flawed that those are EXACTLY WHAT YOU USED IN YOUR PRESEASON PREDICTIONS.
Wow, golf clap for GRM.
Also, those stats aren’t meant to measure context-specific contributions.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 12, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There Is Zero Context In wOBA, wRC, and wRAA
I never said these stats are useless. What I said is that they are flawed and their lack of contest is why.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Context. Freddy Lewis > Bengie Molina.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bah Gawd
Has Bengie been that bad? D:
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 12, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess what we've been saying all along is true
It’s near impossible to be a productive hitter when you OBP less than .300. As you’ve been saying, apparently on deaf ears (or I guess blind eyes), for some reason people who love RBI give no respect to runs.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saying “sub-.300 OBP” is being kind of nice… .267? Really? is that even legal?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 12, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, ESPN has Bengie listed at 225
;)
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jun 12, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Is A Much More Valid Arguement
That said, to my way of thinking WPA makes a mistake in treating every team’s run environment as the same. In the Giants low run environment I think it hurts alot more to only cash in on 9% of these opportunities as Fred does compared to Bengie’s 28% then it does to has an OBP 10% lower as Bengie does compared to Fred.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
You’re coming off as only caring what a player does in “RBI situations”. Bengie’s WPA is so low is because he’s been pretty horrible in almost EVERY situation after his hot start. Plus, I would bet you Fred’s “RBI%” will increase once he starts getting more opportunities in those situations.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 12, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, Bengie's WPA Is So Low Almost Exclusively Because Of His Low OBP.
Even using WPA Freddie does not have much of an advantage over Bengie as Lewis is at -.20 compared to Molina at -.56. I believe this would be reveresed if WPA adjusted for the Giants low run environment.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, your so blindedd by your rage that yuo can't see the FACTS that are in front of your eyes.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 12, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WPA Is Also Position Nutural So If You Adjusted For Lewis In LF vs Molina At C
The advantage swings to Molina big time.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why should you position adjust for WPA? That makes no sense.
by xanthan on Jun 12, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't Say It Should Be.
Just noted that it wasn’t and therefore not very good at comparing the overall value of players that play different positions.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if he doesn't improve much
if given the opportunity?
Still a coinkadink?
There’s absolutely no way that these stats could mean any flaw about Fred Lewis as a player?
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 13, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you’d be wrong.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said that you said these stats are useless
What I’m saying is this: you CANNOT “blame” those stats for not being context-specific when THAT’S NOT THE POINT OF THOSE STATISTICS.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 12, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Didn't Blame The Stats. I Blamed The Autor Of This Fanpost For Using Them To Make A Point That Requires Context.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, ignoring this is why wOBA, wRC, and wRAA and [are?] flawed stats.
Umm, let’s let others be the judge of what you mean by this.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 12, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once Again You Are Missing The Context.
They are flawed in the contest of this Fanpost as a valid way to measure the contributions of Bengie vs Freddie thus far in 2009.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once Again
You try to tack something on after you say something.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 12, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just so I understand, you think that hitting in an RBI situation is a skill? So, if we took Bengie and Fred and batted them 1,000 times with a player in scoring positions, Bengie would always be “%19 better” because of what both players have done in a tiny split this season?
by xanthan on Jun 12, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he’s arguing that, purely based on results, Bengie has been better than Fred because of his better rate of driving runners in. I think. Which, I don’t think anyone disagrees that he’s done a better job of driving runners in. But I think rainman is essentially saying that Bengie has been a better overall player because of it. I dunno.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 12, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRM’s stats confuse me. I took it as a ‘true talent’ type of thing. That Molina will always hit better with RISP because of this wacky RBI% stat that he created from this season.
by xanthan on Jun 12, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRM is the new Bill James.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Jun 12, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty bad
I think Mr. James just screamed.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 12, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He shivered
And then said, “Something terrible has just happened.”
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Do Believe There Is Skill Involved But This Is Not What I Am Saying
What I am saying is that Freddie’s failures in these situations thus far this season have hurt the Giants more then Bengie’s failures to get on base. This is all I am saying.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina – 83 PA’s with RISP sOPS+ 76
Lewis – 51 PA’s with RISP sOPS+ 66
So, putting aside if hitting with RISP is a skill or not (it’s not), Molina has only been 10% better than Lewis as compared to the league average hitter with RISP. I really doubt that 10% is enough to offset nearly 80 points of OBP — ie: not making outs.
by xanthan on Jun 12, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sOPS+ Is Not The Right Mesurement For Sucess In This Environment.
In Bengie’s 83 PAs minus his 3 BB/HBP in this environment he had 84 runners in scoring position and he drove in 24 of them for a 28% sucess rate. In Freddie’s 51 PAs minus his 10 BB/HBP in this envoronment he had 47 runners in scoring position and he only drove in 4 of them for (again an almost historically bad) 9% sucess rate.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it doesn’t prove his point.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But how do your stats “prove” this? All they do is show that he’s been worse at driving in runs. They don’t prove the other stats wrong in any way.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 12, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Haven't Claimed Proof.
What I have claimed is that in my judgement Freddie’s failures in RISP situations (just 9% sucess rate) is worse then Bengie’s failure to get on base (just .267 OBP).
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you haven’t given us a compelling reason why we should agree with you.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jun 12, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
THATS BECUAASE YOUR BLINDED BY YOUR RAGE AND CAN'T SEE THE FACTS
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Jun 12, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All That Means Is That You Disagree With Me.
I am fine with that. We don’t have to agree. I am satisfied with laying out my reasons for my position and leaving it at that even if you still disagree.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but it most likely
makes you wrong
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Is Not A Matter Of Fact But Rather A Matter Of Opinion.
I am very comfortable in my opinion and don’t care who agrees or disagrees with me.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you are the only who think your opinion is correct
it is no longer a valid opinion.
In a theory of science you can’t prove a null hypothesis (e.g., clutch hitting doesn’t exist). I understand that there is much noise in statistics, but the burden of proof is on those who believe in clutch skill.
Here is the trap you are falling into
http://statspeak.net/2009/04/why-you-think-clutch-hitting-exists.html
People strive to reduce anxiety and uncertainty breeds anxiety. It’s one of those iron-clad rules of psychology. And people are willing to do all sorts of things to reduce anxiety. (Consider how many people smoke! It’s not a secret that smoking is a really bad idea.) And believing in clutch hitting makes people believe that there is less uncertainty than there really is. All it costs is the willingness to fall for a couple of logical errors and psychological traps
I also suggest you read this excellent paper by Jim Albert of Bowling Green University.
http://bayes.bgsu.edu/papers/situation_paper3.pdf
And this quote from Bill James
"No one doubts that over the course of a season, clutch performance exists. When the scoresheets are available, and the issue can be studied for a year, we will most certainly find that some players have had an impact beyond what their numbers would suggest. What is subject to question is that this represents an ability. If there is such as thing as "clutch ability," then exactly what is it? We know what its signs would be, but what is it? How is it that a player who possesses the reflexes and the batting stroke and the knowledge and the experience to be a .260 hitter in other circumstances magically becomes a .300 hitter when the game is on the line? How does that happen? What is the process? What are the effects? Until we can answer those questions, I see little point in talking about clutch ability."
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Fangraphs Agrees With Me
Even with Fangraphs using wRAA to measure offensive contribution then conclude that Bengie is more valuable the Freddie.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FanGraphs doesn't agree
Huh? wRAA is here:
http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?team=Giants&pos=all&stats=bat&qual=0&type=1&season=2009&month=0
And Molina’s wRAA is -5.5 runs to Fred’s -0.9 runs.
by xanthan on Jun 12, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Sure Why The Value Section Is Slightly Different
It has Bengie at -5.7 and Freddie at -1.1 but it is using wRAA. The difference however remains the same.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The link you linked to was the batting runs component of Fangraphs Win Values. It’s similar to wRAA (batting runs above average) but it’s park adjusted while wRAA is not park adjusted. That’s the difference.
In any case, both the batting runs component and wRAA state that Lewis has been the better hitter.
by xanthan on Jun 12, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This I Already acknowledged In A Context Nutural Environment.
Here I am discussing the overall value of Bengie vs Freddie. Elsewhere I was taking the position that when the context I provided (RISP) is in taken into account I believe Bengie’s better sucess rate has been more valuable to the Giants the Freddie’s better sucess rate at getting on base.
These are two seperate and different arguements.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I had not realized that Fangraphs used park adjusted wRAA as the offensive run value in their value section. I had indeed assumed that this was just straight wRAA.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's only so because
Catcher doesn’t have a fielding UZR score in fangraphs, and they are assigning “position scarcity” to Bengie’s score, thereby making him artificially more valuable than Fred Lewis.
BTW, are you retreating to using stats now, or are we still having the “batting with runners in scoring position is a skill” debate? cause I have more links I want to dump on you if we are still doing that one, such as The Baseball Economist, pages 154-155, by JC Bradbury.
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Btw I do feel sorry for you
I feel like you are that guy ambushed in the middle of the ring in WWF by 8 ppl, just tag teaming and pounding you into submission.
sorry =/
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he likes it like that
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
by oldjacket on Jun 12, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.6 to .4 is, for all intents and purposes, equal.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how dare you use the right phrase and not “intensive purposes”.
Are you sure you are allowed on the internet?
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought about using “intensive purposes” ironically, but was worried people would fall into the sarchasm.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sarchasm reversal!
Very sneaky
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 12, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
That was well played.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For Projecting The Future Perhaps, But
for measuring the past no way.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes way. It’s 2 runs!
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 12, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 Runs Is Two Runs Not Zero Runs.
by giantsrainman on Jun 12, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I could choose one person to live a day as, it would be you.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jun 13, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The awesome thing about this post is that I wasn’t sure till the very end whether it was GRM or Outside the Box Thinking.
“This whole in Fredie’s game” gave it away, though.
by Evan on Jun 12, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Fred
has a whole in his swing?
by jctGamer on Jun 12, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRM
You are, again, wrong.
It has been shown, over and over, that a players offensive performance w/ RISP does not deviate meaningfully from his performance w.o RSIP.
Any evidence of that in 47 AB’s this season is 100% attributed to the small sample size.
Full stop.