Postdraft Prospect Rankings?
by multiphasic on Jun 10, 2009 6:15 PM PDT
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PrintIt's pretty unforgivably ignorant and presumptuous to try and re-do the Giants' top10, integrating the new draftees--especially if Sabean goes to our collective Happy Place and selects Sano or another top international prospect. So I don't expect to be forgiven. But I'm a' going for it. And I'm incorporating Bowker even though I'm pretty sure he's lost prospect eligibility, because, again, I'm ignorant and presumptuous.
And I'm also going to do 15, because I'm a little drunk.
Okay cool.
2. Buster Posey
3. Tim Alderson
4. Zack Wheeler
6. Thomas Neal
7. John Bowker
8. Henry Sosa
10. Rafael Rodriguez
11. Jesus Guzman
12. Tommy Joseph
14. Ben Snyder
15. Craig Clark
And extra bonus sleeper pick Brett Pill, who's been on a June tear. Lotsa talk about "if he could only turn some of those doubles into homers," and he might be doing just that.
Anyway, this was wildly uninformed, so cry havoc and let loose the dogs of WARP.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I'm gonna say
1. Madbum
2. Posey
3. TimA
4. AnVil
5. Wheeler
6. Crawford
7. Neal
8. Joseph
9. RafRod
10. Sosa or Kieschnick
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
1. Bumgarner
2. Alderson
3. Villalona
4. Posey
5. Neal
6. Adrianza
7. Sosa
8. Bowker
9. EME
10. Crawford
EME? Why not put Jacks at #1?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 10, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I think people are underestimating AnVil
Yes, he rarely takes a walk, but his K rate is tolerable, which is pretty great considering he is so young for his league. I think he’s younger than Wheeler is now. If not, it’s close. They’ve been challenging the kid ever since he started in the pros. Just wait until he spends a second year in a row at a level (majors might be the first). I think then people will start seeing the light.
MadBum
Posey
AnVil
Alderson
Wheeler
Crawford
Neal
Sosa
Kieschnick
RafRod
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
I totally thought...
…it was going to say “he’s young for his age.”
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
by ThrillisGone22 on Jun 10, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
What I put in the other thread
1. MadBum
2. Busty
3. T2
4. Wheeler
5. AnVil
6. Crawford
7. before Zod
8. Jesus
9. Kieschnick
10. Joseph
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
1. Madbum
2. Posey
3. AnVil
4. TimA
5. Wheeler
6. Sosa
7. Crawford
8. Neal
9. Joseph
10. RafRod
11. Kieschnick
12. Gillespe
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
you must be drunk
after 350 plate appearances last year, I’d argue that Bowker loses his prospect status.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 10, 2009 8:01 PM PDT reply actions
Dude, where you even reading?
I clearly stated I was including Bowker, not because I was drunk, but because I was ignorant.
What the hell Tom Emanski video did he rent this year, yow.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on Jun 11, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions
sorry. I was drunk, too.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 11, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
1. Mad Bum
2. Buster
3. AnVil
4. Alderson
5. Wheeler
6. Crawford
7. Neal
8. Kieschnick
9. Sosa
10. Jesus
11. RafRod
12. Noonan
13. Gillaspie
14. Joseph
15. Dominguez
16. Joe Martinez
17. Ehire
18. Hector Sanchez
19. Tanner
20. Pucetas
started going random at the end, but the top 15 are solid.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 10, 2009 8:09 PM PDT reply actions
Grade A
Posey
Bumgarner
Villalona
Wheeler
Grade B
Sosa
Alderson
Crawford
Neal
Rafael Rodriguez
Joseph
Kieschnick
Barnes
King
Casilla
Grade C
Tanner
Guzman
Copeland
Pucetas
English
Bowker
EME
Adrianza
Noonan
Clark
McBryde
Hinshaw
Matos
Sadler
Pichardo
You
rank Sosa over Alderson? care to say why?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I do
I don’t really believe in Aldersons fastball playing as a starter – I think both he and Sosa are either fourth or fifth starters, or very good short relievers. Alderson b/c of his fastball, Sosa because of his lack of a third pitch.
I rank Posey over Bumgarner for two reasons 1.) Hitters are less likely to have catostophic injuries and 2.) I would still like to see MadBum get more groundballs and develop his secondary pitches some more. I worry about them rushing him too much
fair enough
Though if you think they both project the same, I’m not sure why TimA is behind Sosa – better command and better K-rate for Alderson to this point, plus he is younger.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
It’s quite close, but I have an unfounded believe that Sosa is more likely than Alderson to add veolocity if/when he moves to the pen.
points for honesty
stats don’t always trump unfounded beliefs
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Unless “C” stands for “Cool”, I don’t agree with your ranking of Jesus. :-)
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
don’t think you can ignore his defensive limitations.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 10, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I was just kidding about his ranking, but I had to pimp him since he’s my adopted Giant.
But seriously, if he can put up an entire season at AAA with an OPS in the 1.000 range, I think you’d have to consider him a “B”, wouldn’t you? He’s still only 24.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
my top 10
1. Bumgarner
2. Posey
3. Alderson
4. Villalona
5. Wheeler
6. Sosa
7. Crawford
8. Kieshnick
9. Neal
10. Guzman
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 10, 2009 8:21 PM PDT reply actions
please don’t say you’re drunk… i just got mono and i can’t drink for 2 months =( i’m so jealous
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Jun 10, 2009 9:20 PM PDT reply actions
That’s just a suggestion. What do doctors know?
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Bukowski was drinking after getting out of the hospital
kidney failure
he lived a good long time after that
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
did i say kidney?
I believe I meant liver
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Is anyone else excited to see 3B Chris Dominguez, 3rd round pick out of Univ. of Louisville in the Giants system? Hopefully he ends up signing and not going back to school for his SR year. Jim Callis (baseball nerd from Baseball America) said many scouts give Dominguez an 80 score (20-80 scale) for power and arm strength and those scores don’t come easy. He’s also a 2-time Big East POY. Kid absolutely rakes and plays a good 3B from what I’ve seen in several games.
I’m intrigued but he has too many flaws right now to rank him in our top 15.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Thomas, yes. I hope they’d try Dominguez in the OF, since he apparently has a cannon for an arm.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
and apparently has some speed. 19 SBs
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jun 11, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Not so fast
Hope the organizational plans are to have Tommy Joseph continue to catch. Later they can decide if they have coached him up enough to stick at catcher or a move is needed.
Any signability issues with any of their early picks? I know Wheeler commited to Kennesaw State (can’t see him going there) and Dominguez has a year of eligibility left…who else might have issues?
Sounds like Zack Wheeler is ready, willing and able to sign. Tommy Joseph has a commitment to Arizona but is in constant contact with former HS teammate and Giants prospect TIm Alderson so hopefully a deal could get done.
Also read 4th round Jason Stoffel who came into the season as a possible first rounder had a down season. Does he want to return for his senior year to improve his draft spot? Dunno.
I’d say it’s highly unlikely that Dominguez doesn’t sign. I don’t have numbers, but it seems to me that college juniors drafted in the first five rounds rarely return to college. Most of these guys want to play professionally and the money – even after the first round – isn’t terrible. And the truth is that college seniors are usually drafter lower as they have no leverage in negotiations.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
If a player has less leverage, doesn’t that make him more attractive, and cause a team to be MORE likely to draft him?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I’m taking most of this from BA.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
My guess would be
More likely to take him and more likely to offer him less money.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
they should absolutely have Joseph catch until he proves that he can’t
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 11, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure that he has the range/quickness to play RF (especially at AT&T), even though he has a ++ arm. I have a gut feeling that he ends up at 1b (his looks reminds me so much of Derrick Lee of the Marlins/Cubs), although I totally agree that we keep him at 3b for now and see if he can handle it. BTW, his 3b defense suffered this year (16 errors) even though his Ks went down and HRs and BBs went up.
I'll go with
1. Bumgarner
2. Posey
3. Villalona
4. Alderson
5. Wheeler
6. Crawford
7. Sosa
8. Neal
9. Kieshnick
10. Rodriguez
Awaiting his arrival in SF: Jesse English
I dug the "Cry 'havoc,' and let slip the dogs of WARP" line. Actually chuckled.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
1. Bumgarner
2. Posey
3. Alderson
4. Villalona
5. Wheeler
6. Neal
7. Sosa
8. Crawford
9. Snyder
10. Rodriguez
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
Sosa?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
With Sosa I’m hoping the velocity comes back, and with it the K’s. Snyder has a pretty nice track record. These kind of pitchers usually get lit up in the high minors, but he’s pitching well in AA this year. Mainly, though, I just think there’s a pretty big drop off after #6. It’s hard for me to rank Rofriguez higher when he hasn’t played an inning of pro baseball yet, and is considered a much bigger question mark with the bat than Angle was. Ehire isn’t hitting enough right now. Kieschnick hasn’t really impressed me, he’s shown nice but not great power and very bad contact skills and plate discipline. Basically, Sosa, Crawford, Snyder, Rodriguez, Adrianza, Kieschnick, Noonan, and probably Joseph and Dominguez are all pretty close in my book.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
1. Posey
2. MadBum
3. AnVil
4. TIm A
5. Neal
6. Wheeler
7. Sosa
8. Crawford
9. RafRod
10. Kieschnick
11. Joseph
12. Casilla
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
1)MadBum: Until proven otherwise, he has been said to be better than our reining Cy Young Champ
2)Posey: The future of our offense and our number 3 hitter for the next decade. Welcome to the NL Joe Mauer, er Buster Posey
3)AnVil:People have been letting your stock slide from number 1 prospect from 4-5 in our system. Trust me, you would be number 1 in most systems if anyone paid attention. You will be the next Albert Pujols, and that is my prediction. Every year you are in the league for at least a decade you will finish in the top 5 in MVP voting. Our 1st baseman of the future, solving a problem position
4)Wheeler:Alderson has earned this spot, but Wheeler has been said to be between Madbum and Alderson on pure stuff, so I put him here. I was at first very upset by this pick, but now I understand it. The Giants dont need a guy who may or may not go to college. A guy who may or not be great. They need a guy who will be a 2 starter in the 5th starter role. Wheeler will be the best 5th starter in baseball.
Alderson:Saw him pitch and my jaw dropped. He could be in the majors and win when he is having a good night. I wouldnt be surprised for a 2010 call up. He has the stuff and composure to be a solid Ace on a bad team, or 2 on a good one. For us, he will be a 4. The jaw drop is back
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jun 11, 2009 6:31 AM PDT reply actions
1) I have yet to here that MadBum is better than Tim
2) I agree
3) AnVil stock has not slide, the giants just drafted some extremley gifted and more polished ball players, who as of now are closer to the big therefor better prospects.
4) I would leave Anderson there until Wheeler does what T2 has done
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on Jun 11, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I heard
1)Olney say he though that Madbum would become our ace 3 years into his career over Tim. He may not feel that now, but he said it once. He has nasty stuff, and is still so young.
3) I didn’t mean his stock had slid amongst Giant’s fans so much as in the national media. People seem to forget that the Giants have him coming. They talk about our pitching and Posey, but never AnVil. That was all I meant.
4)Wheeler being between MadBum is because of where they were when they were drafted, not where they are as prospects, which I know is wrong, but it has only been a year. I looked at where Alderson was as a draftee compared to Wheeler as a draftee and I think Wheeler is better. So I went with him.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jun 11, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
1) That’s pretty much insane talk and Olney is a well known retard.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
You’re right. That was written as jibberish. Im very zoned out at work. My apologies.
But that is how he called it. I love Tim, but who’s to say MadBum can’t be better than him?
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jun 11, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I love them both like crazy and see Bumgarner as a future ace, but to say he’ll be better than possibly the best starter in all of baseball is a little much. Hell, I hope he’s right because then we’d have the 2 best pitchers in all of baseball, with Cain and Alderson behind them. Filthy.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Smiles. Then has to stay at deck for 10 minutes even though boss asks him to come to her office 4 times…
I told you. I get excited! This young man does not need Viagra
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jun 11, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
4. I think you looked at the wrong scouting report, Wheeler is exactly a kid who may or may not be great, he is a bit of a project, Matzek is considered the “sure thing” if such a thing exists in this draft.
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
Matzek is supposed to have more of a sure thing as far as his talent, but Wheeler has a more predictable body that shouldnt break down, and will be easier to repeat. Guys like Matzek dont always get to the Majors and sometimes turn into complete busts. Guys like Wheeler turn into solid number 2, Matt Cain type pitchers who just go out there and do their job every night. For 2-3 million less with the pitching we already have, I would take Wheeler. That is what I was saying
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jun 11, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Guys like MatzekPitchers dont always get to the Majors and sometimes turn into complete busts.
This includes Wheeler. He is no more safe than Matzek. And honestly, Wheeler is the skinny kid, Matzek has already filled out and has more of the “pitchers body”. Both are 6’ 3", but Wheeler is only 180 while Matzek is 210. Which is closer to Cain?
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Thanks
I was just going off the numbers Goldstein had. Any clue how Matzek measured?
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Kevin Goldstein. Used to work at BA now works for BP.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Zack Wheeler
Listed as weighing 170 in some Internet reports, both the Giants and Wheeler insisted that he carries 185 pounds on his 6-foot-4 1/2 frame.
but all the scouting reports have Wheeler as a guy without a repeatable delivery, Wheeler has inconsistent command and secondary stuff, he is a much higher risk/reward player than Matzek.
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jun 11, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll have some of what you're smoking
I’m an optimist, but I would never make some of the claims that you boldly stuck out there.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
What can I say, the draft excites me.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jun 11, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Top 20
1. Posey
2. Bumgarner
3. Villalona
4. Alderson
5. Neal
6. Crawford
7. Wheeler
8. Bowker
9. Adrianza
10. Clark
11. Kieschnick
12. Dominguez
13. RaRod
14. Downs
15. Otero
16. Noonan
17. Joseph
18. H. Sanchez
19. Tanner
20. King
What’s striking to me is how this list has changed over the last 2 years. Now I have more hitters than pitchers in the top 20; I clearly remember when we struggled to find 5 or 6 hitters to fill out a top 20 list. Hallelujah!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Gillaspie
Yeah, it’s pretty iffy by the time I got to #15 or so. Gillespie doesn’t seem to have any power, and his defense isn’t superlative, so his BA and OBP are going to have to get him to the bigs. Heck, if he turns into Wade Boggs I’d be thrilled. If he turns into Dave Magadan, he’d be useful. I’m just not sure he’ll do that.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Modifying my initial list from the draft results thread….
1) Bumgarner
2) Posey
3) Villalona
4) Alderson
5) Wheeler
6) Neal
7) Crawford
8) Kieschnick
9) Rodriguez
10) Sosa
I’m not really sure where Joseph fits in, though.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I’m not really sure where Joseph fits in, though.
I like your list. Maybe Joseph would be a borderline #10? I think he’s definitely in before #15. I could see bumping out Roger K., moving up everyone else, and putting Joseph at #10.
I’m of a mind to respect draft order until people prove they should move up or down from there. So I’d put Joseph (and Rodriguez) around #8, behind Neal and Crawford but ahead of Kieschnick and Noonan and Gillaspie.
I basically thought the same, although I believed Kieschnick’s solid season was enough to bump him just above Joseph, and definitely above Noonan and Gilaspie’s relatively disappointing years.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Off the top of my head
1. Madison Bumgarner
2. Buster Posey
3. Angel Villalona
4. Tim Alderson
5. Zack Wheeler
6. Brandon Crawford
7. Thomas Neal
8. Rafael Rodriguez
9. Henry Sosa
10. Conor Gillaspie
11. Tommy Joseph
12. Nick Noonan
13. Roger Kieschnik
14. Chris Dominguez
15. Kevin Pucetas
Pucetas is interesting. He seemed badly overranked on our off-season list, but he has almost justified it by holding his own while jumping all the way to AAA. Needs to get some strikeouts, though.
Yeah, more strikeouts would really be nice. His numbers in AAA aren’t great but he’s not a terrible guy to place at #15.
How do you guys see Pucetas ending up? I don’t really believe in him as a starter, but I could see him having value as a middle reliever.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
grades, not ranks, please
If your system sucks, ranking blinds you to the morass of C prospects dancing on the heads of pins. Luckily, the Giants system is decent, if topheavy.
My grades:
A+:
none
A:
Posey – everything we expected, but no more.
A-:
Bumgarner – good age-vs-level, decent numbers, but young pitchers arms fall off. I considered a B+ here, but reserve that for now.
B+:
Villalona – results aren’t great, but age-vs-level matters a lot for hitters and substantially every scout loves his bat. Too bad he couldn’t stick at 3B.
B:
Alderson – pleasant surprise in AA so far. I worried advanced hitters would punish him.
Wheeler – I like him, but see him more as trade bait than the next Matt Cain.
R. Rodriguez – this should probably be a B-, but I am hopeful.
B-:
Crawford – another pleasant surprise at a premium defensive position.
Gillaspie – isn’t hitting great, but should. Continue poor defense would drop him.
Noonan – tempted to drop him, but he can play 2B and should make contact.
The rest are Cs. I don’t get excited about a C prospect until he breaks out.
3 A and 4 B prospects isn’t bad. Not top-tier, but decent with some nice upside.
You don’t think Neal has broken out? Age appropriate to his level, outhitting Gillaspie (and younger than Gillaspie) and Noonan by a ton…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Neal is a DH/LF
Gillaspie is a 3B, and I’d drop Gillaspie to C in a heartbeat if he doesn’t come around with the bat or if he can’t handle 3B. Corner OFs need to punish minor-league pitching.
Well, he is punishing minor league pitching, isn’t he? But I understand the mindset and it is probably a bit too early to bump him up too much.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Just to consider...
if you use the neutralize-park option on minorleaguesplits.com, Neal’s line goes up to:
.342/.422/.601
That’s pretty suite.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
jeepers, it's the Cal League
The Cal League is making Logan Forsythe look like Albert Pujols just now.
A hint: he isn’t.
Yeah, but the San Jose stadium is supposed to be a big pitching park, isn’t it?
And if Neal’s performance in an age-appropriate league is completely invalidated by the fact that it’s a hitter’s league, what does that make Gillaspie and Noonan? D:
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I just mean like
I can understand not wanting to bump him up after a hot start, but if he’s still hitting in the 900s by August, would you consider it an actual breakout or is he still a C prospect on the basis of league/position?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
he has some nice stats, don't get me wrong
’Tain’t so much the raw OPS as the Cal League-leading LD% and 1000+ home OPS that get me. If he’s doing both after 500 PA, I would be tempted by a low B. How bad is he in the field? I have been assuming by the LF/DH duties that he’s a butcher, but if not, that matters.
I’ve got no clue, actually, and it’s a very good question. I know a good number of McCoven have gone to SJ Giants games this year – I don’t think I’ve heard any reports on his D yet though.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
He made a great diving catch in the game of the McCoven gathering, but I haven’t heard much about his defense in general either.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
diving catches are for gamers
But if he plays the kind of LF that Lewis plays, I would be much more inclined to rate him a B than if he plays it like, say, Jack Cust.
I believe the LF/DH mostly has to do with his shoulder injury and Kieschnick being there as well.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
he played 1B at Augusta, didn't he?
I have no clue, but he’s consistently played the least-demanding positions.
That was due to offseason shoulder surgery, the result of an injury he suffered diving back into first base while at Salem-Kizer. Prior to that injury, I believe the reports on his D were steady fielder, not much speed or range, strong arm. This year was the first year that he has returned to his natural OF position.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I don’t think Alderson’s performance in AA is surprising. I expected him to do quite well, and I don’t recall others thinking otherwise.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
BUT HE’S NOT RICK PORCELLO!!!!
I think there was some talk that his fastball isn’t good enough to get hitters out at the higher levels… I think he’s showing that it is though, thankfully.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I think he’s more B+ than B, but I will admit that I didn’t think he’d do as well in AA as he has done. Before last night’s start, he was doing really, really good… like < 1.000 WHIP good. I didn’t expect that out of him. I would have thought his BB rate would go up as he faced better hitters, but it has gone down.
So, I guess I’d call his performance a pleasant surprise for me, although I wasn’t exactly down on him before.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
I guess I see a difference between “even better than expected” and “pleasant surprise.” I read “pleasant surprise” as meaning he was expected not to be good.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
His hit rate has gone up pretty considerably though. So the idea that he’d be more hittable at higher levels isn’t totally offbase.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
BUHHH?
A-:
Bumgarner – good age-vs-level, decent numbers, but young pitchers arms fall off. I considered a B+ here, but reserve that for now.
So, no pitching prospects can get an A-? And DECENT numbers? DECENT? A 2.53 FIP by a 20 year old in AA? You just added a shit load of salt to everything you say.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
wcw’s still pining for Heyward.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
He’s actually 19.
Sadly, he also isn’t Jason Heyward.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Whoops
I should have looked closer, he is 19. Although, I believe this counts as his “Age 20” season, for whatever that’s worth.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
I think the cutoff is in July for that and his birthday is in August, iirc. So this is his age 19 season!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Stupid First Inning, they have his age listed wrong then.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
I could actually get saying that he’s a great pitching prospect, but all pitching prospect are big question marks, so he shouldn’t get an A+. But saying that his numbers are decent is silly. He’s been better than Cain and Billingsley were when they were his age. Arguably as good as Felix Hernandez (maybe not, but it’s close).
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
I get what people are doing with the discounting of pitchers because of their risks, I just don’t think it makes sense. Everyone knows pitchers are risky, it sort of seems like double counting to me.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Why? If a pitcher and a position player have identical ceilings and floors, and are the same age, the position player is the better prospect.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
Something to consider here is that while pitchers may be more risky than position players, they’re also more valuable when they make it. And I mean more valuable in a literal dollar sense: signing a three-win pitcher on the free-agent market generally costs you more than a three-win hitter.
This may be changing, though. I get the feeling GMs are getting smarter about signing “proven” free-agent pitchers.
Since any pitching prospect has a higher risk, you’re saying there’s no suck thing as an “A” pitching prospect? (Ha! TINSTAAAP)
I’d disagree with that outright dismissal of pitching prospects
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Two players are identical, except one of them is much more likely to get injured. Who would you rather have?
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
That wasn’t my question. Are you saying there’s no such thing as a “A” pitching prospect?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I guess it depends how you define an A+. If an A+ is a complete can’t miss prospect, then you can’t really give it to someone you consider to be a relative injury risk, can you? Teenage pitchers are pretty big injury risks.
Like I said, you have two guys, a hitter and a pitcher, both with crazy high ceiling, both close to the majors etc. No difference between them, except one is a hitter and one a pitcher. The hitter, being much less likely to get injured, is clearly a better asset, right? So if he’s clearly a better asset than the pitcher, how can the pitcher be an A+?
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
True, but how much better? I certainly don’t think an A+ should become a B+ just because they’re a pitcher. Personally, I just think you should list them both at A+ and everyone knows that the pitcher is likelier to get injured.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
an A- is a very, very high grade for a 19yo pitcher
I think you should go read up on what Sickels-style grades mean. It is not like public high school with its 6.0 GPAs. We do not have grade inflation in this world.
I know exactly how Sickels grades, if you were grading on his scale you probably should have said something. Anyways, even he gave Bumgarner an A.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
I’m a little worried about MadBum tonight. He missed what should have been his start tonight (ageless Brooks McNiven filled in with his first start in a month). Coming as it does right after back to back starts when Madison struggled a bit, it makes my spidey sense tingle to see a missed start.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
PANIC
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
actually, Heyward has battled some injuries this year too.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
FYI
Greg’s CT Defenders Blog has a post up saying that he heard MadBum was scratched due to illness – not arm/shoulder problems.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
SWINE FLU
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
NOT FUNNY
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on Jun 11, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Whew!
I was getting palpitations for a while there. Actually I checked Greg’s blog initially but he didn’t say anything about it. That’s when I started worrying.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
and I gave him an A-
..which is a freaking third of a grade difference. And which I think is right. Sickels is not infallible, and neither am I. Except on the subject of Jason Heyward and Rick Porcello.
Borderline
A-:
Bumgarner – good age-vs-level, decent numbers, but young pitchers arms fall off. I considered a B+ here, but reserve that for now.
It sounds like you wanted to give him a B+ but knew everyone would shit on you for it.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
you don't know anyone in a California high school
GPA ain’t what it used to be, trust me.
MadBum only A- ???
This 19 year old kid is dominating at AA against men mostly 2-4 years older than him. He’s dominated at every level he’s ever pitched at (HS, A-, A+, AA) with only a fastball and an average breaking ball (although I read that his change-up has become much better). In other words, they know he’s going to through them a fastball and they still can’t hit it! Don’t forget what he did in Spring Training this year. He lasted up to the last cut, didn’t give up a run, and pitched 3 scoreless against the Dodgers A squad. Without a doubt, this kid right now could do exactly what David Price did for the Rays last year after they called him up in August (be a stud out of the pen) if the Giants wanted to rush him(which I’m glad they don’t). And that’s not even mentioning his A+++ pickoff move – nobody can run against him.
I’m really excited to hear the scouting reports on the development of MadBum’s secondary pitches.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
yes
Because if he’s an A or an A+, what were Lincecum and King Felix etc etc ad nauseam?
To repeat, an A- is a very, very high grade for a 19yo pitcher.
so who did the Giants fuck up by not drafting this year?
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 11, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
no idea
I am sure there is someone, but it wasn’t obvious, so no complaints. Heyward and Porcello were obvious.
I’m just pissed off that they drafted y’know, really, more pitching, everybody knows it’s idiotic to draft pitching.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 12, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Somewhat off-topic
But since there’s no day three draft thread (and there’s no real reason to, this late in the draft), one of the Giants’ picks today has a scouting report and sounds interesting as late round guys go – Diego Seastrunk.
Strengths: A real baseball player, he knows the game and plays it the right way. His makeup is off the charts — he volunteered to move behind the plate this season. He has some hitting ability from both sides of the plate.
Weaknesses: He’s a work in progress defensively as a catcher. He has a strong arm, but stll has a ways to go in learning the nuances of the position.
Summary: Seastrunk can definitely hit, a line-drive machine from both sides of the plate. And there’s no doubt about his makeup and his knowledge of the game. He just goes about it the right way. The question, and it will ultimately determine his Draft status, is if he can catch well enough. If he can learn the position defensively, he could be an everyday backstop at the next level and would obviously create a lot of interest on Draft day.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Yeah. But it’s the “line drive machine from both sides of the plate” that grabbed my attention.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Indeed. He sounds like this year’s Juan Carlos Perez, if he signs: flawed player, probably won’t amount to anything, but interesting enough to be the name that sticks in your mind out of the late-ish rounders.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Theory
A cool name can make a cool prospect, but a cool prospect can also make an uncool name cool.
See: Madison Bumgarner.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
We don’t have any truly great names so far in this year’s draft, but Seastrunk, Addison Proszek, Jamaine Cotton, Adam Champion, and Christipher Gloor are all pretty good.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
For those who didn’t see yesterday’s draft thread, the Marlins got the draft’s best name on day two: Sequoyah Stonecipher.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Another good name just now
The Nationals drafted Hoby Milner in the 44th round.
And another! A few picks later, the Pirates take Dexter Bobo.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
…and the Giants take Joseph Lewis. BORING.
(Local kid, though, from Pittsburg High School – at least I’m assuming that’s Pittsburg, CA)
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Man, this round is full of crazy names
The A’s take A.J. Huttenlocker.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
You son of a bitch
He sounds like this year’s Juan Carlos Perez, if he signs: flawed player, probably won’t amount to anything
You take that back or you’ll find out what rage is.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
Hey, I’m rooting for him! I just think he’s probably a long-shot.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Speaking of long-shots of whom I’m fond, Mike Loree’s ERA is predictably well up compared to last year, but he hasn’t been that bad. He’s old for Augusta, of course.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
sounds like one of our relievers
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Note: I did not see this before my front-page post, so the Seastrunk love is wholly a product of McCovey Chronicles LLC, a subsidiary of Petrix Chemical Holdings
Also of note:
1. Posey
2. Bumgarner
3. Villalona
4. Alderson
5. Wheeler
6. Rodriguez
7. Adrianza
8. Noonan
9. Crawford
10. Sosa
I’m not going to freak out over two months worth of data on a teenager, so Noonan stays. And while I’ve been a big Neal booster for a while…give it a couple of months.
by Grant Brisbee on Jun 11, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Noonan wasn’t good last year either, though.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Yeah, I personally was already kind of down on him going into this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I know it’s fun to fantasize, but shouldn’t we wait until Wheeler, Joseph, Dominguez, etc. actually sign with the Giants before we rank them as prospects? Not that I think that Wheeler and Dominguez won’t sign quickly (Wheeler looked like he would have sign a blank contract on draft night without a moments hesitation). But I can see Joseph holding out for above-slot with his college scholarship leverage.
Some thoughts
1. Buster Posey
2. Madison Bumgarner
3. Tim Alderson
4. Angel Villalona
5. Zack Wheeler
6. Rafael Rodriguez
7. Henry Sosa
8. Thomas Neal
9. Connor Gilaspie
10. Nick Noonan
11. Roger Kieschnick
12. Tommy Joseph
13. Waldis Juaquin
14. Brandon Crawford
15. Eihre Adrianza
16. Kevin Pucetas
17. Clayton Tanner
18. Scott Barnes
19. Jesus Guzman
20. Jose Casilla
I wish I had a spot for Jesse English and Ben Snyder, who have both boosted their stock so far this year. But I guess that’s a testament to how strong our system is now. Guys to keep an eye on who could skyrocket up the charts this year: Jason Stoffel, Wilamin Rodriguez and (of course) Hector Sanchez.
I absolutely love Bumgarner. I just love Posey more. Is that so wrong?
Generally speaking, I won’t freak out over two months of ball, so Noonan and Gilaspie keep thier spots in the top-10 for now. Neal and Sosa have done everything they needed to do to revive their top-prospect status, so they get the nod to round out the top-10.
Kieschnick and Crawford have moved up big time. If they continue as they have, I’ll make a spot in the top-10 for them by the end of the year. I (for no really good reason) believe in Joseph’s bat. I think it will play no matter where he ends up. Nothing I read about him indicates that he has any major, hidden weaknesses (discipline, contact, slumps, etc.). We’ll see…
I can’t put Guzman higher now that he’s exclusively a 1B.
Obviously, I’m assuming Joseph and Wheeler sign. It’ll be interesting to see how many of the lower round high-school picks sign. Some could be added to the list.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
I’m just gonna do a top 10:
1) Bumgarner
2) Posey
3) Villalona
4) Alderson
5) Wheeler
6) Crawford
7) Kieschnick
8) Neal
9) Raf. Rodriguez
10) Joseph
Hon. Mention: Bowker, Sosa
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jun 11, 2009 6:28 PM PDT reply actions
1. Posey
2. Bumgarner
3. Villalona
4. Neal
5. Alderson
6. Wheeler
7. Crawford
8. Rodriguez
9. Sosa
10. Kieshnick
11. Joe Paterson
12. Ben Snyder
13. Joseph
14. Adrianza
Also, I vote John Bowker as our starting LF.
Or RF! BOWKERMANIA
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 13, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Good question
You should make this a fanshot, Wil.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Some thoughts on a good topic
Here are some of my thoughts on various prospect lists here:
. Is Zack Wheeler at age 19 a better prospect than Rafael Rodriguez at age 16?
. Has Nick Noonan fallen virtually off the top prospect chart? His K/BB ratios have been horrid each of the past two seasons, he’s hitting only in the .240’s, and he’s made a high 10 errors.
. Brandon Crawford has probably made the biggest jump this season of any Giants prospect, but should we be worried about his 30/8/2 K/BB/HR ratio for Connecticut?
. Should we be worried about Roger Kieschnick’s 59 strikeouts and only 12 walks for San Jose?
. Thomas Neal has really upped his stock this season and even has a good 43/24/10 K/BB/HR ratio. (He also has a double, triple and line out in his first three at bats today.) But should he be ranked ahead of John Bowker, who appears to be earning a quick promotion to San Francisco?
. Ben Snyder has pitched very well at Connecticut this season after getting blown away there after his promotion last season. But is he a better prospect than the southpaw drafted just ahead off him, Clayton Tanner, who is two and a half years younger and putting up good numbers at San Jose for the second straight season?
. Is Craig Clark, who is three and a half years older than Tanner and has virtually the same ERA as Clayton, the better prospect of the two?
. If Tommy Joseph injures a knee which requires a revolutionary surgical technique, will that technique become known as Tommy Joseph surgery?
Let’s see…
1. Maybe. If RafRod were eligible for the draft that year, would he have been a top-10 pick?
2. Nah. I’ll give a lot of rope to 19-year-olds in high-A. He’s disappointed, but I’m not freaking out yet. And error totals for teenagers are almost useless.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.
5. No.
6. No.
7. Maybe.
8. Booooooooo.
by Grant Brisbee on Jun 21, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
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