Draft Musings
by Lyle on May 4, 2009 7:02 AM PDT
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PrintAs the June 9th draft approaches, some amateur players are beginning to establish themselves, either higher or lower. I noticed that Andy Seiler, on John Sickel's website, has a mock first round draft list, so I thought I'd mention it to get your reactions.
He assumes the following top picks:
Washington - Steven Strasburg
Seattle - Dustin Ackley
San Diego - Alex White
Pittsburgh - Grant Green
Baltimore - Aaron Crow
San Francisco - Tyler Matzek, LHP, Capistrano Valley HS(CA)
Of course, there's debate about who will be chosen above the Giant's slot, but just for fun let's assume Andy has the first five picks correctly predicted. The question for the McCoven is: If Strasburg, Ackley, White, Green, and Crow are off the board when it comes to the Giants' pick at #6, who do you prefer? (For those of you too lazy to click the link, he lists Zach Wheeler, Kyle Gibson, Donovan Tate, Rich Poythress, and Mike Leake as the next selections.)
So what do you all think? Matzek would certainly fit into the Bumgarner/Alderson mold, and we do seem to have a good history with that approach. Of course, there is the small matter of our ML offense needing help...
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I should point out that in the blurb for the #7 pick (Atlanta), Seiler mentions that our very own Brian Sabean was seen at one of Zach Wheelers starts.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
NO MOAR PITCHERS!!!!!!1111
Donovan Tate is intriguing to me. I’m here for the lulz mostly, to see who will throw himself down the stairs next.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 4, 2009 7:34 AM PDT reply actions
Saw Ackley’s swing. Kindly asked the driver to stop the bandwagon. It’s a good swing, but there’s no way he’s hitting for power. I guess there’s a 10% chance he turns out to be John Olerud, but that’s not the pick I want in the top ten. If it were a certainty that he’d play center…maybe. He can hit enough for center, for sure.
Whatever HS pitcher Giants Brass! wants is good enough for me.
This
His swing reminded me of a slap-hitting outfielder on the Mets whose name eludes me now. (Damn lack of sleep!)
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on May 4, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m still taking the bandwagon to it’s final destination.
I want a freakin’ position player again!
Ackley>Green>Tate
Strasburg>Crow=Matzek
Wisconsin: Famous for dairy, Ryan Rohlinger and not much else.
are you anti-taint, I mean Tate?
I’d be happy with any of the Matzek, Purke, Wheeler group, but Tate still intrigues me.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
I don’t doubt his raw talent. I doubt the ability of the Giants to harness it. I’ll wait until Noonan/Villalona is producing in the majors to stop being fearful of raw teenagers.
by Grant Brisbee on May 4, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
true... I am fairley scared that a guy like Tate could be a big flop in the organization
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
Did anyone keep xanthan’s warranty? If he breaks we can take him to Fry’s and get him fixed.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 4, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus, Frys might replace him with a newer model that will brainwash all of us with the gospel of the giant brass. Sort of like i-robot
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on May 4, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
isn't it widely accepted
that this draft is a barren for position players and next year is even worse?
More or less. That can always change, of course (especially for next year’s draft), but the next real good position player on the horizon the high school (sophomore) catcher from Las Vegas.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
How the hell can people be watching a sophmore high school player and be right about anything in his future?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen should be with the big team.
That’s what I want to know.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 4, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQQ5cZD8PgU&feature=related
Skip to about 3:00. Aside from the funky timing mechanism with his foot, that’s the bestest swing that’s ever swung, and he already has 80 power potential.
by Grant Brisbee on May 4, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to say I’m a bit skeptical if this kid is doing it legit (i.e. clean). Way too much power for a 15 year old kid.
Statements like this ruin baseball for me a hell of a lot more than the players who’ve done steroids.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
by JakeS on May 5, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
those are mainly responsible for the rage and bacne
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
Love hitters with that extended follow-through where the bat whacks them in the back at almost full speed. That follow-through is the exact opposite of Aurilia’s and Rowand’s swing. His swing is built to drive the ball in the air.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on May 5, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
That's awesome
So much power generated in his hips. I agree, his trigger is odd, but when he throws that back knee down and opens up, he just explodes thorough the ball (watch at the 7:00 mark). Nasty swing. Imagine what a good hitting coach could do with that swing…
Good hitting coach?
What is that? I don’t recognize those words in that order in a sentence.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
I know one guy who could be inserted into that sentence:
Best hitter to play the game.
Knows baseball in and out.
Wonder if the kids would like him??
Wonder if he would like the kids….
That's already been done
If you’re going to hurt yourself, do it in a way that at least entertains others. Don’t do something that’s stale and trite like that.
Throw yourself up a flight of stairs.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Could prove difficult
First, he’d have to eat the stairs.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
it doesn’t sound as if any player that the team will pick in this draft is going to help with the big club’s offense for some time, so that really shouldn’t be a consideration…I’m basically a BPA monger at this point, and if that’s another HS pitcher, then so be it. You can never have enough pitching in your system.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2009 9:02 AM PDT reply actions
Irregular?
You need some pitching in your system.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
After last year’s draft and how great Villalona is looking in San Jose, I wouldn’t mind a pitcher that much. I’d love to see them get a college player or an advanced high school player, because I think we can have a really good team 2-3 years down the line, so I’d love to get another guy who can contribute to that. But the indications are that that may not be possible, so we shall see.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
My expectations are pretty low for this draft. There’s no OMG SMOAK-type player who could conceivably fall to us, so yeah, I guess I am just hoping we pick another underrated pitcher like in 2008 and 2007.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Unless you think Posey’s going to be toeing the rubber in the city, I assume you mean 2006 and 2007.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
That is what I mean. The rubber shall remain toe-free.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
x2
I think we have enough hitting in the system to make this the best course of action…
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
I like the way you think, saying things that really should be obvious to fans of a team with a stacked minor league system. It’s nice and all to focus on a pet player, but really we should be focusing on getting whoever the best is.
The absentee father of Edwin "Cue Ball" Quirarte, now that he is doin well in the minors, its time to get back in his life, and in his checking account!
Matzek needs to fall like a rock in this draft
he’s committed to Oregon and I’d love to see him pitch for the Ducks for a few years. Then we can draft him.
It's spelled "T-A-K-I-M-O-T-S-C-H-M-O-E."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
Last Friday’s BA podcast was an early draft preview and the two portions of the discussion which could have ramifications for us are 1) Grant Green seems to be suffering from “draftitis” and is sliding down draft boards around the league. Lots of scouts BA was talking to still believe strongly in his bat and they believe that Green’s going to tumble AND somebody’s going to get a steal with him. Green’s reputation is greatly enhanced by his performance in the Cape Cod League which the Giants traditionally put a lot of stock in; and 2) alot of scouts believe the strength of this draft outside of Strasburg is the HS pitchers, would does seem to be right down our alley. They consider Matzek and Wheeler (two names we’ve been attached to) the cream of this crop.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Did they mention why Green was sliding? His bat looks legit.
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on May 4, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
He is not having a very good year with the bat and is having an awful year with the glove to the point where some scouts question his ability to stay at SS and wonder if he will wind up as a 3B with no power at all.
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 4, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
What do you think of this focus on the Cape Cod League? It seems to me that players who do well there don’t do any better or worse than you might expect from their aluminum-bat numbers. Maybe the sample is just too small.
The logic seems sound. Aside from the wooden bats, it’s the premier college summer league so you’re seeing players go against probably the best competition you’ll see them play — similar to the show leagues that the premier high school players take part in in the summer. And anecdotally, I think I read that there have been over 200 players in the majors the last few years who were CCL alumni. That’s a pretty impressive percentage of ALL major leaguers, but when take out the foreign UDFA and the high school draft picks (neither of which would ever play in the CCL) it’s an extraordinarily high percentage.
Sadly, CCL success isn’t making me think that Emmanuel Burriss is ever too likely to be a major league hitter, but on the other hand, Timmy apparently put himself on Tidrow’s hot list on the Cape, too.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
They should select Tate
Tate should be the selection and they should only offer him slot or barely over it. If Boras wants to be a pain in the ass and screw his client out of top-6 draft slot money then let him go to college and take the #7 pick for next year. This draft seems very hit and miss with the only player who should still be around that intrigues me are Tate and Crow. I would offer slot to both players and just roll the dice for next year.
by krukuipandclint on May 4, 2009 10:45 AM PDT reply actions
He has a nice fastball in the mid 90s and a power slider that really intrigues me. I also think that this guy will not want to waste another year in the indy league and would be more eager to sign. Offer him slot money and let him squirm about playing another year out of the minors. I like Scheppers a lot too because of his velocity.
by krukuipandclint on May 4, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Crow a lot because he is so advanced and “projectable” as they say. I think if we wind up with him we can feel pretty confident about him being in the MLB rotation within a few years.
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 4, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Not a great Indy league debut for Crow. 1 2/3 innings pitched, gave up 3 hits and 3 runs (one earned)
Scheppers threw 4 hitless innings, walked 4 with 6 Ks
Huge month coming up for these guys. Could be the difference between them being set for life, or falling in the draft and actually having to work for it
This...
I like Ackley as well, but I would avoid Green even if he’s there. Crow seems like he’d be a very safe, solid pick, with decent upside who could be a fast riser in the minors. In a year like this, sign me up for that, definitely.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 5, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Put me on the anti-Tate bandwagon
Get your raw, toolsy position players from Latin America. We basically got Tate last year when we signed Rafael Rodriguez. As mentioned above, the commitment to UNC and Boras scare me, so unless he completely falls and we take a flier on him in round 5 or later, offering him first-round money to sign, I wouldn’t bother.
Go with the BPA, which in a draft rich in HS pitching, will probably be Matzek or Wheeler (the more I find out about him, the more I like him). If Green falls, great. If we take a college arm like Gibson or Crow, great. I just want to make sure whoever we grab has the potential to be a really, really good player – no drafting guys who profile as #3 starters (unless he’s Matt Cain) or solid major league regulars.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
You just want Tate for your football team
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Totally!
Unfortunately, he’s going to North Carolina, not Cal.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
I’d seen many references on-line to Tate saying that if he’s drafted in the top-10 he’s not going to college. I wouldn’t be too worried about that.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
great question
I’d probably go with Tyler Matzek, high school LHP; Donavan Tate, high school CF; Tanner Scheppers, independent RHP; or Zach Wheeler, RHP.
I’d really love Grant Green (college SS), but I’m not sure he’ll fall to us at six.
Tanner (Ind) vs. Green party
I’m hoping for Green too, but I was also in the “wouldn’t it be awesome if Alvarez somehow fell to us?” camp last June.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 4, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I am a Best Player Available absolutist
If Ackley falls to the Giants I would love to have him, but I think there is very little chance of that happening.
Green is the most interesting player in this draft. I was very high on him after the great Cape Cod League season and I’ve always been impressed with him in the Pac-10 (although I put very little stock in my own scouting opinion), but it’s interesting how much difference of opinion he engenders among scouts. The questions of whether or not he can stick at SS scare me, any team that drafts him had better be pretty convinced that he can.
I would really love to have Tate, in a weak draft like this I like the idea of going for broke on a raw, high upside, 5 tool prospect. I can understand people being apprehensive of a raw High School guy, but all of this concern over his football commitment is really mis-placed. Every High School player has a college commitment, Tate really wants to play pro baseball by all accounts, and if he goes in the top 10 he is going to get signed. There is very very little chance he winds up playing College Football.
I would be happy to get Aaron Crow, I think he is a very polished and advanced college (I’m aware he’s not actually in college) arm who should move fast and has very little chance of missing, even if he doesn’t have the upside of some of the High School arms. I bet he winds up going before us.
I have absolute faith in the Giants when it comes to High School pitchers, so I would be happy with any of Purke, Matzek, Wheeler, or Miller.
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 4, 2009 11:37 AM PDT reply actions
Tanner Scheppers
Obviously the medical staff must do their due diligence and Scheppers must perform in the Indy league beginning tonight. Have read Scheppers. who did not have surgery but rehabbed, is throwing with a cleaner motion, is stronger and throwing mid 90s.
agree
I’d much rather take a random HS arm or Crow (pleasepleaseplease!)
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 5, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I want the fastest guy on the board
/al davis
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
Trade Down!
(seriously wish there were trades in the baseball draft… I mean, that could only make things more fun, right?)
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 5, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Tyler Matzek, LHP, Capistrano Valley HS(CA)
Since I don’t think we’ll be able to afford another $126 million to re-sign Zito when his contract is up, I support drafting a high school LHP to groom as his eventual successor.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
seems like a good plan
although I would hope that Matzek would be ready before 2014… OTOH, they would probably not have as much trouble benching or trading Zito toward the end of the contract.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
At this point, I’ll either take any of the top couple position players who drop or whatever high school pitcher the Giants like best. Lately, it’s not even like those high school arms take all that long to reach the majors anyway… (I mean, I know MadBum and TimA aren’t here yet but I’d be surprised if they don’t both make it up at some point next year, which is pretty damn quick for high school pitchers.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
(I mean, I know MadBum and TimA aren’t here yet but I’d be surprised if they don’t both make it up at some point next year, which is pretty damn quick for high school pitchers.)
I would be pretty shocked if they both made MLB appearances by the end of next year.
Wisconsin: Famous for dairy, Ryan Rohlinger and not much else.
For real? They should be at AA by the end of this year and I imagine they’d be in Fresno by next year. It doesn’t take much to get from AAA to the majors at that point.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I’m with Scottsdale, not because there’s any warning signs with them or anything, but because they’re prospects. Shit happens with prospects. They have injuries or they can’t adjust to a level or they just suddenly get bad. To say both of them are going to avoid every prospect trap over the next two years is a bit more of a leap than I’m willing to make.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
Well, that is true. DAMMIT I’M BEING OPTIMISTIC. :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Shit happens, but that doesn’t mean it would be SHOCKING for them both to get a cup of coffee next year.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
why its a consensus they will be in AA soon, and if they are in Connecticut in May they could conceivably be in AAA by the end of the year. Or if not they could start next season in AAA, which would make them obvious targets for a late season call up when rosters expand, or if they need a start
The absentee father of Edwin "Cue Ball" Quirarte, now that he is doin well in the minors, its time to get back in his life, and in his checking account!
Donovan Tate or Mychal Givens
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
If The Phone Booth is such a pitchers’ park does it not make more sense to develop position players and acquire pitching through free agency? I am unsure to what extent free agents are actually influenced by park factors, but the argument is logical if they are.
Wisconsin: Famous for dairy, Ryan Rohlinger and not much else.
I don’t think free agents are influenced by that much at all, but the questions is moot, because it’s not a pitcher’s park.
It’s perceived to be a pitchers’ park, so it’s not necessarily moot.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
That’s a good point. But surely agents are smart enough to explain the truth to their clients, even if the players themselves can’t perceive it for some reason?
I think the more apt point is that the Giants have done such a good job of finding pitchers outside of their high round draft picks (and I don’t think there’s much dispute that they’re better at this than anybody in the business) it’s best to take the “surer thing” bats with our high picks. That’s why as great as MadBum has been I still think taking Heyward would have been a better pick for us. I think we can find the pitching in other places besides #7 pick.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I think agents, for the most part, aren't concerned about park factors one way or another
They’re pretty much always just going to go with whoever offers them the best contract, whether that team plays on the moon or in Petco.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 5, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Executives believe Strasburg, who is 10-0 with 147 strikeouts and 15 walks for San Diego State this season, will seek a six-year MLB deal for at least $50 million. He is being advised by Scott Boras, who is expected to try to draw a parallel between Strasburg and Daisuke Matsuzaka, who signed for $52 million over six years after the Red Sox paid a $51 million posting fee for his rights.
Is he really going to get anywhere near even half that much?
Wisconsin: Famous for dairy, Ryan Rohlinger and not much else.
Jim Bowden had an interesting take on this, he says the Nationals have already made the decision to draft Strasbug and predicts:
You think they are going to sign him early? No, it’s going to be Aug. 15 at 11:57 p.m. It will end at around $15 million, about under $35 million of what Scott wants, but that is where it ends up. It will be record-breaking, and he will be pitching in the big leagues in September.
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 4, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Gibson or Matzek
Of all the available pitchers (aside from Strasburg) they seem to have the best mechanics, and are both solid pitchers. I’d go for Gibson slightly above Matzek just because he would probably be ready at around the same time our San Jose squad is being called up to the majors, while Matzek will be a bit behind.
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on May 4, 2009 4:41 PM PDT reply actions
true...
but Bumgarner, Alderson, and Sosa can probably fill out the rotation when that group comes up. I wouldn’t mind getting some players to bolster the RafRod-era crop of players.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
STFD DEMPSTER
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
My thoughts
The players who interest me most, if Green is gone by the 6th pick, are Donovan Tate and Matt Davidson, more the latter, as some have described him as David Wright-lite, and we have plenty of OF in the system, but not so much 3B.
Pitchers are OK, but unless much better than Tate or Davidson, I would go position player again.
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 4, 2009 5:43 PM PDT reply actions
we have plenty of OF in the system
we do? who are these OFs?
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 4, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions
We do have alot of outfielders in the system just that none of them are really that good.
Just say NO to free agents, they take your draft picks.
OF Depth
is limited to guys with “upside”, most of whom are in A ball or lower: Keishnick, Fairley, Neal, Rodriguez. The only guys in the upper half of the minors are EME (and I’m being generous here) and Bowker.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Well if you’re being generous you should probably include Felmy and Mooney. In their own ways they might both be better prospects than EME. Felmy because I’m pretty sure he can and will make a good utility OF guy, and Mooney because he still does have a lot of tools. For whatever reason he’s always been old for whatever league he was in but he does have a good portfolio of tools.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
And as long as we are being generous lets include Mike McBryde, I have always liked him and arms like that don’t go on trees. Wait a minute strong arm, not great hitter… I might be on to something here
The absentee father of Edwin "Cue Ball" Quirarte, now that he is doin well in the minors, its time to get back in his life, and in his checking account!
I'm going to mark out here...
Mike Mooney. I still have faith, and I am well aware I’m the only one.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on May 5, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Man in the Mooney
Kevin, what is holding Mooney back? From the boxscores, I’m guessing it’s plate discipline and recognizing pitches. What have you observed? I’d love to jump on the Mooney bandwagon (and it appears it would be easy to jump on, with it moving so slowly).
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Gotta have a band before the wagon comes...
Mooney’s a hard guy to nail down…I still think a lot of it is simply mental, staying concentrated and staying confident. He’s shown, in spurts, everything he needs.
I actually think the key for Mooney is simply what has happened: Move him to center. His streaky offensive liability is somewhat less of an issue in center than in right. And Mooney was already a strong center fielder; he was an excellent college center fielder and would’ve moved earlier if he hadn’t been regularly teamed with other excellent defensive center fielders like Richardson, Timpner and McBryde.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on May 6, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh, Brute...
I think you’d be less aware that you’re the only one had you read my comment 3 above you there.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Ah, mea culpa
We still have faith, and we’re the only two.
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by BruteSentiment on May 6, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
It's all relative
Who do we have at 3B?
Meanwhile, Fairley was rated top 20 prospect by BA in his league last season, Rodriguez is a potential 5-tool guy, and Kieschnick has shown some potential for power so far, and BA has like McBryde as a sleeper. Plus we have Schierholtz chomping on the bit in the majors and I still think Bowker has some potential, certainly more than the 3B we have in our system.
Plus, we have to remember, most draft picks don’t come up in 2-3 years, we’ve been spoiled by Cain, Lincecum, and the expectations of Posey and Bumgarner. Prospects normally take 4-6 years to make it up to the big show, so when selecting, we have to consider both guys up high and guys who are still in the lower minors.
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 5, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually six years would be a pretty rare development curve (especially for non-catchers). Although of course our starting LF is one of those anomalous cases, there really aren’t a lot of players with Freddie’s career arch out there.. I’d have to look again, but last time I checked the average development time for major league starters is a little under 3.5 years in the minors.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Thanks
My numbers were a rough estimate I made based on what I was seeing in the draft data I had collected.
Yes, not many take the 6 year route, I saw a lot more in the 4 year range, and thought I would be conservative with my estimate on the range.
Still, 3.5 years seem a little low to me. Even Cain, who was a fast mover, took 4 seasons from draft to full-time starter. Was it the college players who made the average lower? What was the difference between HS and College? I would imagine that would be different.
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 6, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually, Cain debuted just over 3 years after he was drafted as a late-season call-up. He went pretty much straight into being a regular – he started 7 games in the last month or so of the season, and then 31 games the next year.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Rodriguez is a potential 5-tool guy, and Kieschnick has shown some potential for power so far, and BA has like McBryde as a sleeper. Plus we have Schierholtz chomping on the bit in the majors and I still think Bowker has some potential, certainly more than the 3B we have in our system.
and this adds up to “plenty of OF”?
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 5, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Again
relative to the number of 3B prospects we have. Hopefully Sandoval will obviate the need to draft a 3B, but we don’t have any 3B prospect that is as good as any of our OF prospects.
Besides, the main point for me is BPA. From what I had read, Tate and Davidson seemed like they were equal in terms of potential, so I chose the 3B over the quasi-CF. If Davidson is not as good as I was led to believe, then I would lean towards Tate instead, in spite of the number of OF we have.
But when I made my statement, it was my understanding that they were similar in potential.
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 6, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
But to make the statement that we have “plenty” of one position runs completely counter to the philosophy of taking the best player available. The Giants don’t have anywhere close to plenty of anything, certainly not outfielders, of which we don’t have even one that is a very good prospect. They should take the best player with absolutely no regard to the position they play (other than maybe a Catcher).
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 6, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Had not heard that
Thanks for pointing that out, that’s something that needs to be monitored. What I had read was that he is like David Wright-lite, and that led me to assume that he’s solid enough as a 3B.
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 5, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
It would be great to get Davidson but he looks like a big reach at #6 as he seems to be a guy taken late in the first round or the supplemental round. Too bad we don’t have a supplemental round pick because Davidson would immediately provide much needed pop from the 3rd base prospects in the system. If he falls to the second round that would be awesome as I doubt Sabean would pass up a prospect like Davidson but I could be wrong.
Anyways I’m all for taking Tate as I love his potential but really that is all he has now but I’ll take that over any of our current minor league center fielders.
Just say NO to free agents, they take your draft picks.
What I've read
Is that Tate is not a sure thing for CF and there are questions he can hit well enough to play 1B. Still, great potential that drew my attention.
His question marks made me lean towards Davidson for now, and in any case, I would much prefer Green but expect him to be gone by our pick, despite some disappointment over his season thus far.
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 5, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Davidson doesn’t seem worthy of the sixth overall pick to me. At least not based on this report.
Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.
taking Davidson with the sixth overall pick would be comical
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 5, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Cool. Look how bearish he his on Grant Green.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
This guy is obviously very knowledgeable on this stuff, and I enjoy his posts,but unless he is a scout and he has seen Grant Green in person several times (I doubt either of which is true) I don’t think he has any room to have that kind of an opinion on Grant Green or any other player in the draft.
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 6, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Baseball is the one sport where people who do mock drafts are unlikely to have seen too many of these players. They might see some of the Big 10 players, ACC or SEC but, unless they are there in person, they haven’t seen too many others. Tons of college basketball and football is shown on TV for someone to have a decent opinion on them.
On the other hand, TV is a terrible way to evaluate athlete’s performance. One, because it almost totally negates you’re appreciation for an athlete’s speed, and two because most of the things an athlete needs ot do to make a play happen before the camera cuts to them (thus in baseball, we often think OFs have made great plays, or even couldn’t quite get ot dunks because we didn’t see their bad jump). You really have to watch a game in person to judge speed and instincts.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
The MLB draft is probably one of the best cases in sport of loads of people having heated debate over things they have hardly any knowledge about.
I’m not criticizing anyone in particular & i certainly include myself in that group, but it’s quite funny how many opinions, and often strong ones at that, we all have despite having such little knowledge on the area.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I just watched the video of Strasburg throwing a no hitter in his last game
You can see it here. I just wonder how he’ll fare in the majors against real hitters and if he’s got the composure and maturity to work out of a jam. Why I’m writing this is beccause I didn’t like how he spiked his glove after the last pitch. Of course I’m Timmy-bias, but he shows maturity and composure beyond his years, which in turn corresponds to him being a great pitcher (plus nasty stuff). I’m no shrink, and this is just one small instance, but as far as I’m concerned the jury is out on this kid.
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