San Francisco Giants Draft Preview, Part I: Kyle Gibson
by Grant on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM PDT
89 comments
Pet peeve of the draft, #239: Polished College Pitcher X is a safe pick. Just a few years ago, the internet baseball nerd consortium was unified in their opposition toward high school pitchers. Then a few folks figured out, hey, first-round high school pitchers don't return less value than first-round college pitchers. Well, maybe a little less value, but nothing worth getting yer knickers twisted over. If you like the teenager with the arm of golden fire, draft him.
Of course, drafting high school pitchers is a risky proposition. But the reason that the polished, "safe" college-arm label drives me nuts is that every pitcher is a risky proposition. Context: Brad Hennessey is a first-round success story. Oh, he'll be in the appendix of the book of first-round successes, but he gave some value to his parent club from the latter half of the first round. That's a modest success. Jason Grilli was a safe pitcher. Steve Soderstrom was a safe pitcher.
A couple of the pitchers picked before Tim Lincecum were safe pitchers. Greg Reynolds went to the Rockies on the strength of a repeatable delivery, a high-80s/low-90s two-seamer, and good command of what Baseball America described as a "solid-average" curve/change combination. That's the kind of "safe" that ends up as a bolded term in a textbook, and you can see how that kind of pitcher is attractive to a team. If Reynolds hit his ceiling, the Rockies would have had something like a cheap Jon Garland, and they would have had him soon after the '06 draft. It's too early to label Reynolds a bust, but it's not too early to realize that the safe college pitcher is the chupacabra of the scouting world.
The Pirates split the difference between a risky project like Lincecum and a safe pick like Reynolds, going with medium-safe Brad Lincoln. Hold off on the "lol pirates", as here's the scouting report of Lincoln before the draft:
I'll take four of those, please. Then he sprung a leak shortly after signing with the Pirates, missed the entire 2007 season, and only now seems to have his prospect sheen back. He might be a great first-round success yet, but he was never a safe pitcher, mostly because he used body parts to throw the baseball.
The long-winded intro is all to introduce Kyle Gibson, the Missouri right-hander with the draft's shiniest "safe" label. In order to earn that label, Gibson had to have
- above-average control
- a good-not-great fastball
- a couple of developed off-speed pitches
- and a certain je ne sais quoi package of gritty bulldog gamer grittiness
Gibson has it all. So he's the safe pick that should remind folks of Grilli or Reynolds -- a mid-ceiling guy whose polish and proximity to the bigs is one of his more attractive qualities.
And I'm kind of hoping he falls to the Giants.
Gibson throws a two-seamer with heavy movement, which is a huge point in his favor. A workable sinker allows pitchers like Aaron Cook to hold his own even when he isn't striking a lot of folks out. But Gibson's slider is also an out pitch -- a nasty, late-breaking thing that he throws to lefties and righties. Plus two-seamer + plus slider + plus change + plus control = crazy valuable pitcher. Just don't read that last bit out loud, and you'll be fine.
Now is Gibson guaranteed to develop a plus change or bring his plus control to professional baseball? No way. That's why he's not a safe pick. But one of the biggest pet peeves I have with the "safe"- label is that it usually underrates a pitcher's ceiling. It's hard to choose between a late-moving, well-placed 90 mph fastball and a raw 96 mph fastball, but there are plenty examples of both on All-Star rosters every year. If Gibson can really throw his fastball, slider, or change in any count, and if they all have the potential of being above-average pitches, he has just as much top-of-the-rotation potential as the raw flamethrower du jour.
But he's not a safe pick. Don't hope for the Giants to draft Gibson because he'll be up soon, or because he'll bring back a shiny hitter in trade soon. Hope for the Giants to draft him because you have wild visions of a Brandon Webb with less sink, more slide, and plus control, even if he has a 10% chance of ever being that pitcher.
Links:
Baseball America feature (subscribers only)
MLB.com's draft report
YouTube video
Another YouTube video
Yet another YouTube video
Project Prospect scouting report
Purple Row profile
BrewerFan.net profile
Driveline Mechanics has words of caution
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Isn't...
a safe, mid-ceiling college pitcher somewhat anathema to the Giants drafting philosophy regarding pitchers?
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on May 28, 2009 11:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If the Giants were to go with a college pitcher, Gibson would probably be my pick. Well, I like Aaron Crow better, but it seems less likely Crow will fall to #6.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but it does seem like there are fewer true aces who throw in the 88-91 than there are who throw 92-96 (or higher). Santana, Greinke, Lincecum, Sabathia, Haren, Peavey, etc… most of the very good/great pitchers that I can think of in the game can regularly throw the ball harder than Gibson. Yes, there are the Webb types, but they seem relatively rare.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Gibson and am starting to like him more and more. Maybe he does have the type of two-seemer and sinker that can cause batters to have fits. Maybe he could be like Webb. It just seems like there are relatively few comparables when you put him opposite a guy like Turner.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on May 28, 2009 11:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
actually, 89-92 is probably more accurate than 99-91 with Gibson.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on May 28, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
can I edit my posts? LOL… should say “88-91” not “99-91”
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on May 28, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, cuz 1 mph isn’t much of a difference anyways, lol.
by aBulldog on May 28, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can I just point out that both Derek Lowe and Brandon Webb weren’t particularly THAT highly regarded for most of their careers as prospects until they became huge innings eaters out of nowhere, and in Webb’s case, a dominant starter. Webb wasn’t a really huge prospect. Sinkerballers in general, are like relief pitchers. They are generally pretty inconsistent, because if their sinker isn’t staying down in the zone they’re getting knocked around a lot. Very few of them seem to be really good pitchers for a good amount of time. Like Jon Garland for instance, I don’t think is all that great, but he’s had a good year here or there. And he’s had some straight up awful years.
by Hobbes2d on May 28, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only were Webb and Lowe not that highly regarded, they were both drafted in the eighth round. You don’t need to use a top pick on these guys.
by Evan on May 28, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't want Gibson
Much rather have Crow (doubt he lasts till 6), Matzek, or Scheppers. Or even Shelby Miller or Jacob Turner.
I’d prefer Matzek the most probably. But I think if Scheppers didn’t hold up as a starter he could make for a dominant closer. Same could be said of Crow.
by Hobbes2d on May 28, 2009 11:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Scheppers sounds like he could be really good, but the injury history scares me.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loved Scheppers early on but have backed off recently. Not for medical reasons but for command issues.
by wilriv21 on May 28, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think at this point, I’d trust the Giants with any pitcher pick they make. But it seems like they’re more into high-ceiling high schoolers (or really special talents like Lincecum) than they are into guys like Gibson, in the first round anyway.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on May 28, 2009 11:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on May 28, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+2
Dodgers fans eat their young.
by redhornet78 on May 28, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this does seem to be the case. Other than Lincecum, the Giants have only taken two college starting pitchers in the first round this decade – both in the same year (Hennessey & Lowry).
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that was back in 2001, too.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on May 28, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the ones they drafted in the 90s didn’t work out so well – Soderstrom, Bump, and Grilli all flopped. Kurt Ainsworth was probably the best of the lot, but injuries killed him.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We did get trade value out of Bump and Grilli, fwiw.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on May 28, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m far too embittered about Livan to regard him as “value,” even though he was.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grant showing his hole card
Top pitchers: Straburg, Crow, Miller and Mike Leake.
While nowhere near the size of Kyle Gibson Leake is every bit the pitcher. Think Tim Hudson or Roy Oswalt. Poise and make-up is off the charts.
Since there is no trading of picks it will not be an overdraft to select a player you want earlier than evaluators have a player. It is his size that has him ranked lower.
by wilriv21 on May 28, 2009 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
27th tool?
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on May 28, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ooh I saw Leake pitch for ASU at Oregon State
he had nasty stuff.
speaking of OSU, my homer pick for the draft is taking Ryan Ortiz in the 2nd-3rd Round.
Best of Senator Clay Davis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4-QyAzY64&feature=related
by cloudydays on May 28, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO THANK YOU
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on May 28, 2009 12:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyler Matzek
It will happen. I’m even willing to bet all my McC Bucks. All three of them.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on May 28, 2009 12:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yea… I think he’s my choice too. Perhaps Turner if they think they can deal with Boras or Crow, if he’s there. I like Tate too, but it seems like there are too many questions considering his asking price.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on May 28, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johathan Mayo has us taking Matzek in his new mock draft
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090528&content_id=5009386&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
by superk1ng on May 28, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or even the possibility of the Giants taking Mike Leake. Go take a Leake, Barr.
by wilriv21 on May 28, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He still has Minor at #3, though. Interesting.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be fine if that did that, though – he thinks the other two guys they’re looking at are Crow or Tate, and I’d much rather have either of those than Minor.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also calls Shelby Miller a “local product” for the Braves in the same sentence he mentions Miller is in Texas…
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he doesn’t have Tate going in the first round at all, like KLaw. If Tate fell to us in the second round, I’d be thrilled.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except
No second round pick I believe, b/c of signing Affeldt, a Type B free agent
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on May 28, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Type B free agents, I believe the team who loses them gets a sandwich round pick, but the team who signs them doesn’t lose a pick. I may be misremembering, though.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's correct
We didn’t lose anything by signing Affeldt, the reds just get a sandwich pick.
by superk1ng on May 28, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh ok
Thanks for the corrections
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on May 28, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never mind, I misread that. Duh.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems to be a pretty common belief. I’m hoping it for it, FWIW.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on May 28, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 28, 2009 12:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
From what I’ve read, a lot of scouts think Gibson will grow into his body, and if he gains some muscle, can add up to 5 mph to his fastball. I mean, the kid is 6’6", he should be throwing bullets at 98 mph. If anything, I think if he does add anything to the fastball, he will top out around 91 to 94 mph. The comparisons to Mark Prior are a little iffy, but if he could be a healthy Prior, I’d take him in an instant.
Aaron Crow sounds like a good pick too, if he falls, and he might. Buster Posey wasn’t supposed to fall to #5 last year. The knock on Crow is that he was drafted last year, and didn’t sign with the Nationals (I can’t blame him for that, lol), at #9… so at #6, is he going to have outlandish contract demands?
Alex White is another good pitcher from UNC, who is a couple years younger than Crow. He may not be around at #6 either, but you have to wonder that if all these pitchers are picked before the #6 spot, then the Giants might have a chance at Grant Green, or Dustin Ackley, which are position players they might be able to develop.
The pitcher I really like, is Tyler Matzek. He could be the #2 pick behind Strasburg.
by aBulldog on May 28, 2009 1:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Buster Posey wasn’t supposed to fall to #5 last year.
As I recall, the only team ahead of us who might’ve grabbed Posey. Once they decided to go with Beckham, it was pretty clear Posey would be available at #5. Crow, on the other hand, could be taken by pretty much any of the teams 3-5.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, “was the Rays” was supposed to be on the end of that first sentence.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Posey climbed in the draft rather than fell.
How would the top of that draft go if they were redoing it today? Beckham, Beckham, Smoak, Posey, Crow?
by Evan on May 28, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would take Smoak over Gordon Beckham. And while he hasn’t been that good so far, it’s too soon to write off Alvarez.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t write him off, but I wouldn’t take him ahead of any of those guys, or Hosmer, or Matusz.
by Evan on May 28, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hosmer’s been an OBP machine, but last I checked he wasn’t hitting for much power.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would take Posey over Gordon Beckham too, come to think of it. They both look good, though.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too, but I get the feeling the baseball world was dazzled by Gordo in spring training.
by Evan on May 28, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well sure
But would you take Posey over Gordon Beckham?
by lincypoo i wuv u on May 28, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would take Posey over Gordam Beckham too, probably, come to think of it, even though they both look good thus far.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on May 28, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y’all have me checking a thousand times over to see if I misspelled a name or double posted or something, but as far as I can tell I haven’t. So I’m just confused!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You said you'd take posey over gordon beckham in 2 posts
I’m guessing you meant tim in one of them?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on May 28, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He said he’d take Smoak over Beckham, then that he’d take Posey over Beckham.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on May 28, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i missed that smoak =/= posey
by lincypoo i wuv u on May 29, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we draft a pitcher, we absolutely cannot draft a guy who is most probably going to be a #3 starter with the #6 overall pick. We likewise cannot take a guy who projects to be average with the bat of in the field. We need top-self talent added to the system. I think he’d be a fine pick for a pitching-poor system that had a strength among hitters – the perfect second pick for the Nationals at #10, for example.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on May 28, 2009 2:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There doesn’t seem to be much top-shelf talent in this draft.
by Lars The Wanderer on May 28, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree, but
most projections have Gibson as a #2/3 at best. Crow, White, the high school arms, all project as potential #1s. Tons has to go right for each of them to reach that ceiling, but I wouldn’t strive to add a potential #3 arm to my system with the #6 pick.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on May 28, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you people think of White? From what I’ve read, he has a pretty good fastball and slider, but his other pitches aren’t much and his control isn’t great, and he’s not done as well as expected in college. Like others, I’ll trust the Giants’ judgement if they pick him, but he sounds kind of iffy to me.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a big fan, just because it doesn’t seem like he’s improved much in college. It’d be one thing if he was lightly regarded out of high school and then his stuff blew up but he hadn’t grown into his stuff yet. However, this guy was touted as a future number-one pick when he arrived at UNC and – while he’s certainly been good – he hasn’t grown all that much.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on May 28, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was pretty down on him until I read that someone compare him to Jake Peavy, which made me pause. Overall, though, not terribly excited. No particular reason though, for all the reasons you listed above.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on May 28, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His delivery reminds me of Peavy, but the stuff does not. That being said, I believe Peavy was drafted in the 15th round, so that just shows how difficult it is to project what happens after the draft.
by out machine on May 28, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Gibson could develop a 4-seem fastball that’s a few miles per hour better than the others… something he could consistently throw 94, just to show the hitters another speed. That’s kind of what Peavy does (with a bit more velocity).
BTW, it’s pretty impressive that Timmy can throw a 2-seemer as hard as he does.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on May 28, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d agree, but only because the organization has enough pitching depth that it can afford to take a high-upside guy that might have more risk.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on May 28, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont we already have a 3 at best? or is that meme dead now?
by lincypoo i wuv u on May 28, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do memes die here?
Except for that whole “Guzman up permanently and platooning/starting” thing?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on May 28, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, memes don't die here
I believe we’re up to 109 of them, now.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on May 28, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Projections are overrated imo
It seems pretty arbritary stuff scouts build off a couple times seeing a guy and should be taken with a big grain of salt. Everyone was freaking out last year because Buster Posey was projected to hit 10-15 HR’s by the mlb.com scout. This after a year when he had the highest slugging percentage in the NCAA. Well who knows what happens when he gets to the bigs, but he’s got 8 HR’s so far in 168 AB’s along with 13 doubles. Those are pretty darn solid power numbers.
by hammystyle on May 28, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I have no idea why everyone kept saying that Posey wouldn’t have any power. I have a rookie card of Sammy Sosa, and it gave projections of his career, and on it, it said that he would be a speed guy, with no power… we all know how he turned out (although, he had the help of corked bats and PED’s, lol).
My guess is that maybe the scouts were trying to find something on him that wasn’t as solid as the other facets of his game, or maybe the scouts for teams out of the top 5 were trying to put a knock on him, so that he would drop further than the top 5.
by aBulldog on May 29, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting idea
any thoughts of drafting a guy the team that might not sign, or who is committed to college and then just not signing him at all. It would save some $ in the short run (that could be used for Latin or Asian signings) and get us another top 10 pick next year when the field would likely be stronger?
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
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by nostocksjustbonds on May 28, 2009 2:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a fan. Scouts are already panning next year’s class. On top of that, I’d rather the team signs a player it loves and gets him into the system to develop. Professional ABs and innings are much more valuable to any prospect than college (or independent) ABs and innings. I just think that in baseball – with all of the uncertainty that’s already built into the scouting and drafting processes – it’s better to take a risk on what is certain (the guys you’re looking at drafting right now) than wait on even greater uncertainty. Plus, finances shouldn’t hold this team back in signing amateurs. If they really like an international, they should be going after him, no matter what they did in the draft.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on May 28, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus its just extremely unethical, and I’m sure illegal if we did it blatantly enough.
by hammystyle on May 28, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, in terms of money, this is really just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Okay, so theoretically they’d have more money this year to sign Dominican players – and then next year, with the comp pick, they’d just have less money to do the same.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 28, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a good idea
The way the Giants are playing, they may have another top 10 pick next year anyways.
The second issue, is that the Giants have enough money. They told us they had legitimate interest in Manny Ramirez, and he’s a little more expensive than any of the prospects the Giants will be able to get.
The only kid I see the Giants going after is that High School player, who will probably end up playing baseball and football for USC.
by aBulldog on May 29, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“The way the Giants are playing?” They’ve won 3 in a row and if the season ended now, they’d have the 16th or 17th pick.
I mean, I bitch as much as anyone, but a dose of reality might help.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 29, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you talking about Donovan Tate? He’s committed to UNC, but all indications are that he wants to play pro baseball and that it’s just a negotiating tactic. Basically a reverse John Elway. It works out for the team, too, as they’re then able to sign him to a five-year deal as a two-sport athlete, and not the typical four-year contract. This allows them to spread out the bonus money (or even increase it slightly) and make the contract a little more palatable. Also, the team is at .500. They’ll likely be picking in the teens next year.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on May 29, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are guys that I would prefer over Gibson, but if he was the pick I would be satisfied.
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 28, 2009 6:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
but it’s not too early to realize that the safe college pitcher is the chupacabra of the scouting world.
The safe college pitcher eats goats?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on May 28, 2009 7:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You’re lucky if they even leave a carcass to inspect.
by Grant on May 28, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree generally about “safe” picks. I’ve always favored upside in the draft over the safer picks like James Simmons and Nick Schmidt (to throw two more names in the pile).
As for Gibson specifically, I don’t know enough about him. If he’s really a ground-ball guy, I’d probably be OK, but it seems like a lot of amateurs get talked up as having sink on their pitches, then they don’t actually perform that way in the pros.
I suppose I’m skeptical, but I don’t feel strongly about it. Plus, I’m drunk.
by Dan from NM on May 28, 2009 10:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This
Plus if you’re picking as high as the Giants are, I think you kind of owe it to yourself to not go with a “safe” pick and take someone who has a chance of being an elite or at the very least really good player. Not someone who’s floor is a AAA player with a ceiling of mediocre ML material.
by Hobbes2d on May 29, 2009 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really interested in Gibson i’m afraid, and i’ve not read anything to suggest to get me excited about him. That’s not to say he’s not going to work out ok for the team that choses him but i’d definately rather us go in a different direction. Also as mentioned, our specifics don’t particularly lead to him being the right pick for us. Ultimately there’s at least 6 people i’d chose ahead of him.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
by GiantFan on May 29, 2009 12:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I can’t wait for draft day and it’s madness. I’m start the number of “throwing myself down a flight of stairs” references at 2,000 mentions.
by xanthan on May 29, 2009 3:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
/throws self down flight of stairs because the Giants passed on Kyle Drabek
by Grant on May 29, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Madison 2?
John Sickles posted on some other RHPs that will go high in the draft. From the description it sounds he is the type of guy the Giants have picked in the past. He may be an option with our second pick.
Madison Younginer, South Carolina HS: STRENGTHS: Athletic and projectable; can hit 94-96 MPH; shows promise with his slider. WEAKNESSES: Has been used as a reliever, so scouts haven’t gotten to seen enough of him; normal high school pitcher risk; rough mechanics and general rawness; Clemson commitment could make him expensive if drafted too low. PROJECTION: Someone who likes raw arms should be interested in the second round; would fit well with Braves, Giants, or Dodgers based on past drafts.
by malarky on May 29, 2009 11:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The name is shockingly similar
That does sound like a guy the Giants would be in on.
by Hobbes2d on May 29, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wtf is going on in the Carolinas? Don’t they know that Madison is now a girl’s name?
by Evan on May 29, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hitting
that’s absurd! How can you look at what happened last season and for the first fifty or so games this season and think that what the Giants should draft is a starting pitcher. How could he make a rotation of Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner, Sanchez, Alderson anyway? And the Giants are stuck with Zito taking up one of the spots for the foreseeable future. They should take the best power hitting player available.
by parisspleen on May 29, 2009 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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