Free Agent Outfielders
by gimpsta7 on May 25, 2009 11:04 PM PDT
89 comments
I am not counting on the Giants to make a play for a game-changing bat. I really think Dan Uggla will be a Giant sooner or later (too many rumors just lead me to believe he will move at some time, and likely for Sanchez).
So, with a big trade unlikely to happen, let's explore the two best Free Agent Outfielders for the upcoming offseason: Matt Holliday and Jason Bay.
I would rather the Giants sign Bay. The Red Sox need him, so the bidding will have to be larger, but I think the Giants need him more. If any player out there is worth 15-20 million dollars to the Giants it is the consistent Bay. Look at it this way: He was traded for Manny Ramirez essentially straight up. I am from Pittsburgh, and I know that city was heart broken when he left. The Giants can make the soft spoken Bay the face of the Franchise (offensively) and have a counter to Lincecum that the media will pay attention to. Bay is good for .300 and 25 HR a year, plus defense, and walks/brings leadership. The one area we have too many players, but none great, is Outfield. We will have money from letting Winn and Molina leave in anyway possible. I think this could lead to a great time for Giants Baseball that we will see from 2011 on for a long time.
Lineup:
RF Lewis
SS Renteria
LF Bay
2B Uggla
C Posey
3B Sandoval
CF Rowand
1B Ishikawa? (we really need to address this position unless Anvil is ready soon)
This Lineup could challenge the Dodgers, especially if the Giants get a serious upgrade at 1st and CF.
The next candidate is Holliday, who is quietly posting a decent season, but not by his "future 20+ Million dollar" standard. If his stock drops enough that the A's cant trade him for much, or if he hits the market, I would be happy with 12-15 Million on him. He wont hit .300 like Bay (probably around .280), but will offer 5-10 more home runs per year, and he is a little younger (I think). I am not expecting this move to happen. The Giants are on record as not being interested in trading for him, which doesn't surprise me since Billy Beane can easily swindle Sabean. If he comes to the Giants, I would be thrilled, but no where near as much as with Bay, who I believe is better suited for the NL and a quieter market.
Lineup: Switch Bay with Holliday, and maybe move Posey to 4 and put Uggla at 5.
What do you guys think? Anyone you would like to see the Giants sign (instead of trade for)? Do you think Uggla will be a Giant by next season?
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I would assume Bay resigns with Boston
I just wouldn’t want Holliday for the price he would come at
Not so proud adoptive parent of the set-up man.
This is definitely not Howry do it!
by CB30 on May 25, 2009 11:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
seconded.
Bay I have a hard time thinking is leaving Boston. Unless he has a strong desire to play in his native Canada…but Boston can afford to pay Bay the big bucks, he’ll be with a perennial contender, and he has already fit in really well there and produced great numbers.
by Hobbes2d on May 25, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for Holliday, for the price, hell no.
by Hobbes2d on May 25, 2009 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Boston would like to sign Holliday, in which case Bay would not be re-signed.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 26, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on May 26, 2009 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buster Posey batting cleanup next year? Doubtful
Thing A
by sam23 on May 25, 2009 11:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If it's 2011 then Renteria shouldn't be there.
Maybe Crawford if he’s for real, maybe somebody else, but probably not Renteria.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
by EliminateMe on May 26, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would much, much rather take the risk on the 2010-2012 seasons of Crawford than the 2010-2012 seasons on Bay. It will be very interesting to see if the Rays pick up then $10MM option of ’10 or use the $1.5MM buy out this winter.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 26, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong Crawford.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 26, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
doh!
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 26, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the white one
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 27, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They both aren’t the same color? When did this happen?
/shocked
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 27, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya, that was my bad, I thought he was on a 3 year deal. It is 2011.
by gimpsta7 on May 26, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Bay is awful defensively, and isn’t a .300 hitter. Bay is likely the guy to hit .280 while Holliday is more likely to hit .300, although that isn’t really as important as their secondary skills.
Holliday is the better player, so I’d rather have him.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on May 25, 2009 11:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Holliday is the better player, so I’d rather have him.
GROUPTHINK!!!!!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on May 25, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Groug didn't say that
…oh, wait….
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on May 26, 2009 6:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s just sign Beltre for cheap since he’s having a down year.
Brandon Crawford: Your 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
Wilriv21: "Your" as in your SF Giants.
by Azmanz on May 26, 2009 12:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Will Beltre sign anything other than a 1 year deal?
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on May 26, 2009 5:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both are having down years, maybe we can afford both.
And while we are at it, we could add Adam LaRoche and Placido Polanco. I love rosterbation.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on May 26, 2009 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre is kind of like Holiday in that we don’t realy know what his year will look like yet. Beltre was having injury issues last year as well. I think I’ve taken Beltre ( along with Holiday) from my “must try and get list” and put him on my “watch list”. If Sandoval can handle the wear and tear at third base this team could have other options to up grade this winter.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 26, 2009 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read this as “Beltre is kind of like Holiday Inn” ,
by tyrannoman on May 26, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but he slept there last night!
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 26, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's a reason he's having a down year
He’s old and not that good.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on May 26, 2009 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He just turned 30 this year. That’s hardly old.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on May 26, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s an old 30 though. Dude is always banged up.
by Hobbes2d on May 26, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember the dominican rule
add 3 or 4 years to the age and you’re probably about right.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on May 26, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on Holliday’s price. He plays good defense, and even in a down year he’s an above average bat. Maybe the cost will be less as a result of this bad year, in which case I’d want him. If not, no to either.
Beltre’s another guy having a down year that I’d like.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
by MonkeyChow on May 26, 2009 3:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I love these post. They never talks about how it is the players choice were they play, at least as a free agent.
Minor White > Ansel Adams
by say hey nation on May 26, 2009 6:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s true.
Yet if the Giants keep the top of the Rotation together and healthy along with how the rest of the NL west looks to be the next 1-2 years SF would have to start looking like good destination for free agent that wants to win.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 26, 2009 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
our rotation is so good it’s capitalized.
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou. "He has some bat speed and the ball comes off the bat pretty well" - K.Law.
by BrianBokake on May 26, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just the top.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 26, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just to see how it feels.
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou. "He has some bat speed and the ball comes off the bat pretty well" - K.Law.
by BrianBokake on May 26, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
meh
I’d expense it.
Sorry, no more accounting jokes.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on May 26, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would not depreciate that idea yet.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 27, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wanted to know who the fans wanted. Nothing we say as an influence on the actions, I was just curious how the fanbase would react to these two players, or anyone else. The Giants have money to spend, and are in one of the most desirable cities in the country to play baseball in. FA’s love coming here.
by gimpsta7 on May 26, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FA’s love coming here.
I’d like to see some sort of proof before accepting that assertion.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 26, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ZZZZITO
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on May 26, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, I should have been more precise: I’d like to see some proof that free agents who aren’t getting twice their market value for a ridiculously long contract love coming here. Or that hitters feel that way….
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 26, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps we could ask Carlos Lee and Alfonso Soriano?
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on May 27, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bay has a perfect name for the Bay Area
Bay also rhymes with Sey and Heay. I can’t believe how he will fit in here.
Proud father of Dallas Mcpherson, the Babe Ruth of AAA.
by The Thrill on May 26, 2009 8:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
can we call him “Say Hey Jason Bay by the Bay”? Cause that would be…something.
by tyrannoman on May 26, 2009 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fail
Say Hey only belongs to 1 person only
by ACgiant97 on May 26, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 26, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then again...
Bay also rhymes with “Shea,” so he’s a prime candidate to jump into a Scott Boras-engineered wormhole and play for the 1997 Mets.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
by leftymalo on May 26, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t get it.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on May 26, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday rhymes too..
Brandon Crawford: Your 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
Wilriv21: "Your" as in your SF Giants.
by Azmanz on May 26, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
I’d sign Turd Ferguson McDodgerlover if the guy is a good player.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on May 26, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Ferguson?
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
by Cookyman on May 26, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turd Ferguson…it’s a funny name.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on May 26, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alliterative, like turd burglar.
I’d have gone with a Daily Show-esque Turd Ferguson McTaintstain, but that’s just me… less topical, more derivative.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 26, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thought of Lewis in right field gives me nightmares.
by Fresburg on May 26, 2009 9:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Renteria at SS in 2011? I hope we would not re-sign him after the current contract….
by thethrillisgone on May 26, 2009 9:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
there is a 2011 option.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 26, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford, please.
Brandon Crawford: Your 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
Wilriv21: "Your" as in your SF Giants.
by Azmanz on May 26, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to believe he is hear just long enough for someone to climb out of the lower Minors and put a decent track record together in the upper minors.
/ crosses fingers and looks at Crawford.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 26, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lewis in RF....
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
by cazzuno on May 26, 2009 10:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Holiday still has many good years ahead of him. He is stuck trying to learn the pitchers in a whole new league on a team without any good hitters around him. After his poor start, I was kind of hoping he would have a bad enough year to lose his Type A FA status, but it looks like he is coming out of it.
Hypothetical question—If we do get Holiday or Bay for a decent price, who plays RF? Because its certainly not Lewis
by m34josh on May 26, 2009 11:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I still think Rowand is destined for a corner OF spot if he stays here. Bowker has been mostly playing RF in AAA. Then there is possibility Lewis get bundled up and shipped. No knowing what might be here after that.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 26, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay’s numbers are inflated from Fenway.
Holliday’s numbers were inflated from Colorado.
by SoFa King Mike on May 26, 2009 9:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Pittsburgh
Is very similar to SF in that it is a pitcher’s part, especially to Right Handed hitters. He posted great numbers there as well. They may be slightly inflated at Fenway, but he only plays half his games there, and was great in Pittsburgh as I said before. I would love to see him in Black and Orange, so I am probably biased, but if we dont have to give up prospects for a top 10 outfielder, sign me up.
by gimpsta7 on May 26, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Bay put up similar (maybe better) numbers in Pittsburgh
I know because of my learnings
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
by RDreamer on May 27, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holiday is Randy Winn outside of Colorado
The guy drops a few hundred points in OPS outside of Denver.
by bradleybear on May 26, 2009 10:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I love Randy Winn, but Matt Holliday has three times as many HRs as Winn does this season. And this season includes one of Holliday’s worst months of hitting in his entire career.
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
by oldjacket on May 27, 2009 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would like the Giants to sign Jason Bay
I would like to have Christian Bale on valium (to control the crazy), a full time paid sportswriting gig, and a car with a rear bumper that isn’t falling off.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006, and bringing you all your California League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 27, 2009 2:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
AARON ROWAND
That’s our lead-off hitter of the future.
Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson
by gore51 on May 27, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s the leadoff hitter of the present!
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on May 27, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
by RDreamer on May 27, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
^this.
I don’t see the Giants getting either Holliday or Bay. It would be nice and an upgrade if we were to pull in either, but both are going to be hot commodities. Are the Giants going to be willing to spend all the money in a down economy with sagging attendance? My heart says “sure” but the brain says “wtf are you smoking.”
by zuma420 on May 27, 2009 7:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
2010 opening day:
2B – Emmanuel Burriss
LF – Fred Lewis
CF – Aaron Rowand
3B – Adrian Beltre
C – Pablo Sandoval
SS – Edgar Renteria
RF – Jeff Francouer
1B – Travis Ishikawa
SP – Lincecum, Zito, Cain, MadBum, one of: Kyle Gibson, Tanner Scheppers, or Mike Leake
by StickRat on May 27, 2009 9:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Leake the more learn about him the more he moves up my board
by wilriv21 on May 27, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he is a pretty darn good pitcher. No. 6 overall may be a little high for him, especially with the upside of many of the pitchers in this year’s draft class. Still, if the Giants are thinking a sure-fire three- or four- starter, as opposed to someone who is more of a gamble, I’d be content with Leake.
by StickRat on May 27, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither MadBum, nor the other three youngsters you mention will make the opening day roster next year. Maybe 2011?
by m34josh on May 27, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bumgarner will definately be a candidate to start 2010 in the bigs. Not a sure thing by any stretch, but is a possibility. I’ve been kinda pumping a Sanchez for Francouer trade, but to tell you the truth, I’m thinking it makes more sense to resign Randy Winn and keep Sanchez. If that’s the case, then we take a one-year contract on Tim Hudson in the offseason, and the rotation is: Lincecum, Zito, Cain, Sanchez, Hudson.
by StickRat on May 27, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez for Francouer? Good lord that would be an awful trade. The Giants’ are already full of powerless hackers. Why would you want to add another?
by tyrannoman on May 27, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially when all we would have to do is dip into the minors
by wilriv21 on May 27, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francouer is still very young. Just 25, the same age as Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain. He is over a full year younger than Jonathan Sanchez. I think Sanchez has the potential to make an incredible impact on the game, and yet I see Francouer as having more upside than Sanchez. Have you seen the way he plays right field? He’s the caliber of Jack Clark and Andre Dawson out there. He’s absolutely off the charts. Many young power hitters don’t catch up to the big-league game until their mid- to late-20s. Look at Dale Murphy. He was hacking a ton throughout some up-and-down years through the age of 25. Then when he was 26, Bam!, six time all star. Only reason the Braves would even consider a trade like that is because they are in dire need of a major-league ready left-hander, and likely will be through the entirety of next season. Unless, that is, they make a deal.
by StickRat on May 28, 2009 3:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Bowker is pretty much the same hitter at the same age without the arm or the hype. I can’t think of any reason for not to be the one be the lightning in the bottle over Francouer
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
by oldjacket on May 28, 2009 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. Bowker is a totally different type of hitter, not to mention he’s left handed. The Giants play in a park that demands left-handed power be very straight-away. Even if Bowker was a pure power hitter, which I don’t really see him as, it wouldn’t translate to the home park. Plus, the arm and overall defense are a huge part of the equation. Francouer is a Gold Glove winner. Often times, hype is legitimate foreshadowing; even if a player struggles for a time at the beginning of his career. And Francouer is still just in the beginning stages of what is likely going to be a great career.
by StickRat on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I wish that were true, no chance. The biggest jump in baseball is from AA to the MLs. He still has to improve his secondary pitches, or big league hitters will eat him alive. Hopefully the Giants don’t ruin his confidence by pulling him too early
by m34josh on May 27, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plenty of time to improve his secondary pitches between now and next spring. I’m not signing off on him for a big-league promotion. It’s just a silly projection. For a pitcher as dominant as he is though, the climb from AA to the Majors isn’t all that different from going from Low A to AA. Sure, the talent is much better every step of the way. But, the difference in settings, lineup caliber, etc., is about as accelerated. And this time last year, Bumgarner was in Low A.
by StickRat on May 28, 2009 3:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I vomited
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on May 28, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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