Sabean Possibly Dangling Matt Cain As Trade Asset
by wilriv21 on May 23, 2009 11:24 PM PDT
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PrintPer Baggs:
It's becoming more apparent, though, that if the Giants are to build a respectable lineup before 2011, they must give up a prime asset — the kind of trade that Sabean made as a rookie G.M. in 1997, when he moved popular third baseman Matt Williams for a package that included Jeff Kent.
With that in mind, club sources said Sabean would put out feelers to see what he could fetch for right-hander Matt Cain, who pitched a complete game Saturday to improve to 5-1. Because Cain is young, controllable and relatively cheap for two more seasons, it would require productive offensive players with similar service-time attributes to strike a deal.
"If the bat per se is talented and hopefully not a free agent to be, you pay the market price, whatever that is," Sabean said.
Note: With the quick emergence of Tim Alderson and Madison Bumgarner and with the possibility of selecting another pitcher in the first round in the upcoming draft Sabean may feel comfortable dealing Cain.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Wow
The thing I love most about this is Cain is probably on pace to win a Cy Young this year. (knock on wood). Hanley Ramirez is the only player I would trade Cain for, and I would probably ask them to throw in another player 5 star player. Why break up what will be the best rotation in baseball for a decade?
Lincecum
MadBum
Cain
Alderson
Sanchez/Zito/My Grandma
by Michael Uhlhorn on May 23, 2009 11:55 PM PDT reply actions
Cy Young? no
He is pitching well, but I wouldnt go that far, and theres no way you could trade him for Han Ram or anyone evn close to his level.
Ramirez in only a year older than Cain
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 24, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
That is what I mean
We couldnt get them. Basically I am saying that Cain is that valuable in my eyes to the Giants. He isnt worth that much to the Marlins, and I wouldn’t make that trade if I were them, I just mean that he and Timmy are the only current Major Leaguers off limits for me, unless you get Hanley and another 5 star, which as I said won’t happen.
And on the Cy Young, Santana and Billingsley are having great years, but I would put Cain in the running if he gets run support and starts striking out more people. We will see, but I think the fact that he has his numbers on a team with no offense will impress the voters like it did last year with Timmy, assuming Timmy doesn’t win it again.
by Michael Uhlhorn on May 24, 2009 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I really think you’re wrong saying you’d need another 5 star player in addition to Ramirez to give up Cain. Look at the world without your orange-colored glasses. Ramirez for Cain stright up would be a great deal for the Giants.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Yes, yes it would. That’s the kind of home-run trade that would make trading Cain worthwhile.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
of course you'd make that trade...
the problem is the Marlins never would. ditto on the Rays and Longoria. ditto on any other team with a young superstar position player you can think of. For the kind of return we’d be able to get, it simply wouldn’t be worth it. Period.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 24, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Why break up what will be the best rotation in baseball for a decade?
Because we’ll keep losing 2-1 every other day without dramatically improving the lineup. I’m not saying we should be shopping Cain, but not dealing him for Hanley? settle down and think about that.
Thing A
I understand what all of you are saying. Sabean would take that deal, and so would many other people. I have more faith in the minors, plus I think we will draft a SS this year in the draft. So Hanley may not be as valuable to us. Would you trade for Mauer? No because we have Posey. I have a whole different lineup made after this draft. If we do trade Cain, we will pick a pitcher, but I hope we dont.
I will say that many of you are right, I wouldnt have a problem with getting Hanley for Cain, but Im not sure I would pull the trigger. Just last year Cain was our untouchable piece, and Lincecum was about to be traded to the Jays. Pitchers are more valuable to me.
by Michael Uhlhorn on May 24, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
first off ramirez and mauer are on different levels however, Mauer is a top 3 catcher in baseball and Ramirez might be the best player in the game. Furthermore we will never have a prospect anywhere near as good as Ramirez. And us drafting a shortstop in the draft should not affect our thinking.
Proud leader of the Lunatic Fringe breaking off from the Lunatic Fringe of McCovey Chronicles
right now Mauer may be a better player than Ramirez. I know his power numbers may be a bit of a fluke, but the guy just rakes and is a plus defender as well. He’s pretty amazing. And if we could have a long term deal in place with Mauer I might consider dealing Cain for him.
Thing A
Mauer..
…might possibly be the only player I’d consider trading Matt Cain for. But the Twins wouldn’t do it, and shouldn’t do it. So no, there’s no way we’d get equivalent value for Matt Cain in any one-for-one deal.
And yes, our offense sucks so badly it’s now the highest rated vacuum cleaner in Consumer Reports.
Now, if the Rangers offered me Justin Smoak and another player with some kind of potential, I’d have to think long and hard about that.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Really? Really now?
Hanley Ramirez:
Talented: check
Signed to team friendly deal: check
Under team control for many seasons: check
Talented: check
Can hit: check
Longoria:
See Hanley Ramirez
Sizemore:
See Hanley Ramirez
Barbara Billingsley:
Yes
I really don’t understand why people are discussing trading Cain for one hitter. Help me out here, because this seems to be the single worst idea I’ve ever seen.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
Intially brought up in Baggs story, then someone mentioned they would only trade Cain for one player straight up. I personally would want the Giants to trade Cain if they could get any of the players I have mentioned.
TWSS
And there are probably 15 players I would swap 1 for 1 with Cain. Wheras there are none I would swap for Lincecum.
Not so proud adoptive parent of the set-up man.
This is definitely not Howry do it!
I’d swap Lincecum for Longoria, David Wright, or Hanley.
by Grant Brisbee on May 25, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Really? You wouldn’t trade him for Reyes, Pedroia, Sizemore, McCan, or Granderson (one of the most undervalued players in the majors, by the way)?
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry. Because he was awesome once, and, goddammit, he shall be awesome once again!
I hope.
My understanding is that Hanley is an OF in SS’s clothing. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but I’d rather have Ehire Adrianza at short if that is true.
Even so, OK, I’d take Mauer or HanRam. Or Longoria. But that’s my final offer.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
He’s not a good fielder, but he’s not that bad. You could also move him to 2B or CF, and he’d still be the best hitter in the majors at that position.
Just so we’re clear, do you actually think that Cain is more valuable than these guys, or is this a sentimental thing? Because I love Cain too, but he’s nowhere nearly as good as Reyes or Wright.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry. Because he was awesome once, and, goddammit, he shall be awesome once again!
I hope.
I wouldn’t trade Cain for either Reyes or Wright. That’s just me, and I’m the one who harps incessantly about the lack of quality 3B throughout baseball, and how the Giants need to make every effort to find a 3B (I advocated for James Darnell last year, but the Padres got him). But even so, I just think Cain is a stud pitcher that we shouldn’t trade away without getting a superstar for, and I don’t think any other GMs yet agree with that; so we’d never (in reality) get a package offered to us that I’d find worthwhile. Except Longoria straight up, or Mauer. Or Hanley, I guess….
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Wright is the best 3B in the majors, and overall one of the 5-6 best players in the game. Reyes is the second best SS in the majors, second only to Hanley, and overall probably a top 15 player. Cain is a top 30 pitcher, maybe top 25. Also, since he’s a pitcher, he’s more likely to get injured. Age isn’t that big of a factor, since Cain is only one year younger than Reyes, and two years younger than Wright.
Again, Cain is my favorite player, but, talent-wise, this is a no-brainer.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry.
:-(
Ridiculous. The last time we traded a good pitcher (Ortiz) and tried to go young with the rotation with Ainsworth, Foppert , Williams it blew up in our face. Hopefully that wouldn’t happen again.
Even worse is the idea of getting rid of Cain just as he is figuring out how to be more efficient and pitching deeper into games. I mean on one side I can see the logic in trading Cain. Especially if you weigh his high workload, diminished velocity and less than upward trending peripherals, but I can’t help but get the feeling (and I’ve had this for a few years now) I think Cain’s best years are only ahead of him. He’s still 24 for the rest of the season for crying out loud! He’s cheap, controllable, and is a young leader on this team. There just isn’t any REAL logical reason to trade Cain though unless you can get 3 legitimate young ML players in return. And at least one of them has to be a potentially elite talent IMO. And given the economy, and teams holding on their young talent as best as possible, that just seems about as likely as me becoming Sabean’s successor once he’s fired.
I don't find it that ridiculous from a financial POV.
They have some offense in the minors, but enough to build a good lineup in the next 2-3 seasons in-house? If Cain is really on the upward trend you think he is, the Giants are going to find themselves with Him and Lincecum demanding a Zito-sized contract in a few seasons. It’s hard to see the Giants spending that much money on three pitchers and still being able to adequately address the teams other holes, and it doesn’t seem particularly wise to invest so heavily in arms when two of the best pitching prospect in baseball are sitting in AA.
Not that we should give Cain away or anything, but, he’s one of the few Giants who might actually bring back an impact player, and the team’s financial and organization situation points pretty firmly to him as a tradeable piece.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Assuming the Giants become a winning franchise again they’re going to have the income and ability to pay who they need to pay. And as long as they never let Cain or Lincecum come even close to arbitration or the open market, they can resign them to longterm extensions that will save them tons of money and cost way less then what either would cost if they were on the open market.
They didn't the last time they were winning
Why would they start now?
Also, why would Cain and Lincecum re-sign if the Giants don’t assemble a respectable offense before they hit free agency?
Also, Cain already has close to 10M in the bank, and Lincecum will get that much in his first round of arbitration. What possible incentive do they have to accept extensions, let alone ones buying out FA year at below market value?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Because they’re pitchers. Just look at Noah Lowry. Their careers could conceivably be over tomorrow. Lincecum could sign a 5 year 70 mill extension and get paid. And still hit FA at age 30 and get a huge contract. Either way they’re not going anywhere, signing an extension now is the SMARTER move because it’s guaranteed. Their increased performance or future big payday via arbitration is not.
Look at Russell Martin, he wants to go year to year….he’s fucked if he continues to not produce at the plate like he has this year. Had he signed an extension he already would be making a big chunk of money regardless of whether he was hitting or not.
Nice sentiment
But most of the pitcher signing discount extensions I found (Santana, Oswalt, Peavy, Buehrle) did so for winners, or at least contenders in a weak division. And the “discounts” added up to a million or three a season. We’d still probably be looking at 30M combined annual salaries to buy out any of Lincecum and Cain’s FA years instead of 35M.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
We have to spend the money somewhere. And with a move towards getting younger (and away from the likes of Molina, Rowand, Winn etc) there’s going to be money to spend. Also, with the way hardly any REAL talent hits the FA market of late, at least that is worth a long term deal, especially via positional talent, the Giants can afford to spend that money on their home grown pitchers in Lincecum and Cain. You really think there is no room in the budget to extend both of those guys?
By 2011, most of the main cogs in this team will be making peanuts other then the starting pitchers. And Rowand will only have a year or two left on his deal. Zito as well. They will be coming off the books just as Lincecum and Cain would be getting their big chunk of change.
All they would have to do is defer their biggest payments to when those guys are off the team completely.
The problem is it’s not just the team’s decision, it’s the players decision as well and there are plenty of perfectly good reasons for a player to want to hit the open market when they can. Particularly when they’ve spent the first 6 years of their career playing for a loser. Cain’s contract with us in up in two years. It’s hard to see how we’re going to be able to field a decent offensive club in the next two years without some major personnel moves. And I’d say the lesson of some recent blockbusters (Bedard and Texeira) is that if you move the player with more than a year left on their contract you can up the loot potential significantly. So IF they think there’s a chance they’ll have to move Cain (or just lose him) in 2011, the reward for moving him will probably be much greater now than it will be in a year and a half or two years.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Don’t think that Matt Cain is that easily replaceable. Bumgarner is dominating, but although Tim Alderson looks good, he’s hardly a dominant minor league pitcher. Reports have him throwing in the high eighties right now. I’ve been as hard on Matt Cain as anyone, but even I know if you can’t get one of the elite hitters in baseball for him, you have to keep him. As for the cost of having Cain, Lincecum and Zito on your staff, big money hitters don’t want to play at ATT, even when you’re the highest bidder. Ask Carlos Lee and Alfonso Soriano about that.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
IIRC, Alfonzo Soriano got a bigger contract from the Cubs, and Lee wanted to play in Texas (as opposed to wanting not to play here, and he might have also gotten a bigger contract). Aaron Rowand had no problem following the money, neither did Ray Drham or Edgardo Alfonzo (a heavily sought after FA, if you recall the Epstein chair-throwing incident)
Here’s an idea that I’ll just throw out there: Maybe hitters have less of a problem playing in a pitcher’s park than playing for a woeful team.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I don’t think you’re right about Soriano. Supposedly the Cubs topped the Giants’ bid, but the Giants’ were then told by the agent not to make another offer. because this Cubs’ one was big enough and he didn’t really want to play on the west coast. As for the Russ Ortiz trade, was it really that bad? The only thing valuable left from that deal is Merkin Valdez, and he’s with us. Russ Ortiz had a good year or two right after the deal, but if we kept him we would have had to come up with major bucks on an FA contract, and that would have turned out to be a disaster, as history has proven. Russ Ortiz even came back later!!
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Who brought up the Ortiz trade?
And why would they have “had to” re-sign him?
Well, other than that it’s the Giants we’re talking about, and they try to re-sign most every veteran with a pulse and no serious character flaws.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
yep
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/20/SPGINMGE7R1.DTL&hw=soriano&sn=001&sc=1000
According to major-league sources, the Giants and a handful of other teams made offers to Soriano, 30, high enough to move them into the second level of negotiations. However, the Cubs reportedly came back with their offer as a pre-emptive move to secure Soriano without any more bidding.
also this would have prevented us from matching their offer
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/athletics/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=11197
the Angels could have BEATEN the Cubs’ eight-year, $136 million offer (if they were so dumb) but they couldn’t have MATCHED it because California law prohibits enforcement of personal services contracts after seven years.
Intersting.
Doesn’t Bonds have a 10-year personal service contract with the Giants which kicks in upon his official retirement?
Also, that article makes it look like the Cubs gave Soriano a huge offer and an ultimatum to take it now or leave it. That’s not quite the same as Soriano turning down a better offer from the Giants or Angels to go to Chicago.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Unless we are legitimately blown away by an offer
He shouldnt go anywhere
Not so proud adoptive parent of the set-up man.
This is definitely not Howry do it!
I have no problem keeping Cain available, but it has to be a really nice offer.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
I’d have to think Sabean is of a similar mind. Otherwise, I go insane.
Really, we’re talking Cain-for-Kinsler, or Cain for prospects that can be turned around for Adrian Gonzalez. Right?
Right?
by Grant Brisbee on May 24, 2009 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I wish they would
Not so proud adoptive parent of the set-up man.
This is definitely not Howry do it!
nope...
thankfully, i feel like Adam Dunn’s hatred of baseball will keep him off of Sabean’s radar.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 24, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Cain for Kinsler? No thanks. Let’s see how good Kinsler would be hitting in Pac Bell for 80 games, plus San Diego and LA another 20 + games a year.
Kinsler’s neutralized stats (four year average): .291/.361/.481
Actual (four year average): .290/.359/.482
Looks like he’s not just an Arlington Field creation…
Proud parent of future rookie of the year, Gerald Posey!
by GiantsFanInExile on May 24, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
pretty likely he is of that mind. Remember, Sabean himself did not say this (baggs only lists club sources), and even what was said was ‘feelers’, not that he is available as in they want to trade him
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
In the current situation the Giants are in, a one-for-one trade is a throwaway trade. If they’re going to deal Cain for one hitter, it would have to be because a) another above average pitcher is ready in the minors to take his place, or b) actually I don’t think I have a B. The Giants would have to get more in return for Cain than one hitter, otherwise there won’t really be any progress made. Unless they’re confident Tim2 or MadBum is ready for the majors now, and can replace Cain’s production.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
I don’t see why this would be true. Who cares if we can’t replace Cain’s production this season? Have you been watching the Giants recently…it’s not like we’re in any position to contend. There’s no reason not to sell our mediocre present for a shot at a much better future.
I guess what it boils down to is if you believe the Giants can compete or not. If you can add an above average, middle of the order hitter to the lineup, I think that COULD possibly do it. If Zito continues to pitch well like he’s been, then you’ve got a solid front three in the rotation. If you can retain Molina, Sandoval, and… Well, I guess that’s all the hitters that need to be retained. But that gives you a better chance to keep pace with the Dodgers or at least make a run at the Wild Card.
If you don’t think the Giants can stay in contention, then maybe trading Cain this year would be a good way to go. But even still, I wouldn’t trade him for only one hitting prospect. All eggs, one basket. Not a great plan.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
except that cain is the kind of pitcher you’d like to have around for that not so mediocre future. I completely agree— I hate short term, win now trades. which is why i wouldn’t trade cain. if the red sox or yankees come calling and say they HAVE to have a catcher, send ‘em bengie. If RJ turns it around and some team wants his arm for a stretch run, fine. If Howry or even Affeldt can get us good youngsters back, I’d move them too. But Cain and Lincecum… those are exactly the kind of players you hang onto, unless someone blows you away with even more young talent. This whole “OMG we need RUNZ” attitude is fine and true— the Giants offense clearly is a long way from contention. But let’s not panic because of a few awful games, or even an awful season and trade one of the best young pitchers to come through this organization in YEARS just to say we have a bat.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 24, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
simpler action
Replace Big Head with a manager that will try to use the resources he has. It a hell of a lot cheaper, would have greater chance at short term improvement, and you still have one of the hard commodities to find in the game.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
Possible Suitors?
Got to think any team interested in Jake Peavy would also be avialable in the equally talented, younger and less expensive Matt Cain.
I know the Philles, Mets, Cubs, Brewers, Yankees and Texas are looking for pitching, Any match make sense?
Texas jumps out
They could put together a package to get Cain, but it depend on what they would want to give up.
Not so proud adoptive parent of the set-up man.
This is definitely not Howry do it!
FTR, I’d want more than just Smoak or Vitters alone. There are only a few prospects I would trade Cain for, straight up, and Smoak and Vitters aren’t in that group.
Texas has a deep system though… Smoak + some other goodies might make sense.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
There isn’t a single prospect who I would trade Cain for straight up. Look at this way, Cain is already a proven, and YOUNG commodity in the ML’s. Any prospect is unproven, so thus no matter how good they might be their value is going to be a bit lower then Cain. Look at when Josh Beckett was traded, he was a young pitcher who when he wasn’t getting blisters was a pretty proven ML pitcher. With upside still as he was inconsistent at times. He netted the Marlins a young SS who was a top 30 prospect in Hanley Ramirez, another good prospect in Anibal Sanchez who was what a B- or B prospect, and two C/C+ young arms in Delgado and Garcia. Granted Mota and Lowell came with Beckett, but Lowell was a salary dump with extreme injury risk, and Mota was a bullpen arm.
What kind of similar exchange could we expect to see for Cain? Another trade you could look at is Dan Haren to Arizona. He netted Carlos Gonzalez a top 50 prospect, Brett Anderson a top 50 prospect, Greg Smith, Aaron Cunningham and Dana Eveland. So that was 2 top 50 prospects, 2 ML ready pitchers in Smith and Eveland, and a solid OF prospect in Cunningham.
Cain needs to net something similar to either of these two trades IMO. Or something similar to what Tampa got in exchange for Delmon Young where they got Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett, and a young minor league bullpen arm in Eduardo Morlan.
No. Is Wieters 100% for sure? No he’s not. Cain we already know for a fact is a proven 200 innings horse.
If the Orioles wanted to throw in Jake Arrieta or David Hernandez and failed prospect Billy Rowell with Wieters then sure you have a deal.
I agree. You simply cannot trade a young successful major league player for a prospect, no matter how “can’t miss” you think he is. Look at that idiot in the Colorado dugout who passes as a manager as an example.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Indeed
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
disagree
that view is way too one dimensional. Cain isn’t 100% for sure. He could get hurt, or he could go the way of Zito 2006. You never know.
So, you have a number of possibilities, which include the player’s ceiling, the probability of reaching that ceiling, injury risk, need, and how long you can control them for. For players like Wieters and Strasburg, they have much higher ceilings than Cain and are pretty polished so they have a significant chance of reaching that ceiling. Cain is very good, but I have trouble seeing him ever becoming an elite pitcher.
So, I’d pull the trigger for those two players (even though I know you can’t trade for Strasburg now). Yes, it’s a gamble, but I think it’s a good one. Indeed, how far do you take your reasoning? Does it just apply to Cain, does it apply to any major league who has had success, like Russ Ortiz after 1999?
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
There’s no question I would do that, if we didn’t already have Posey.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
yea, Posey makes things a bit more difficult, but I would probably still do it and move Posey to another position
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
Nobody is 100 percent if you’re going to say “he could get injured.” Your minor league stud prospects could get injured too. In fact they’re more likely to get injured, because Matt Cain has already shown his ability to take the ball every fifth day, throw over 100 pitches, and not get injured. Like I said be careful trading a major leaguer for a minor leaguer. Wasn’t there a thread before last season when most posters said they would trade Tim Lincecum even up for Jay Bruce? Would you still make that trade?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
would I still make that trade? I don’t recall being in favor of it last year. I guess I might have been, but I don’t remember the thread. And even so, it’s apples and oranges. Early last year, Lincecum was more of a prospect than an established starter like Cain.
Sure, Wieters could get injured. Cain has also perhaps already started to show some wear on his tires. But that isn’t my point. My main concern is ceiling: trading a very good player established player for a guy who has a decent shot at being an elite player.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
Well, the Giants would have more suitors for Cain for the simple fact that he’s a lot cheaper, AND he has no trade clause to dictate where he gets traded to. Peavy having that limits who SD can work with.
you’d have more suitors for Cain, because even the small market teams would be interested at his salary, but you’ll get better offers for Peavy. One is possibly on his way to being an elite pitcher, and the other is already there.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
True
But I wonder if Peavy’s contract combined with his injury history and horrid numbers in postseason appearances (if the team interested is a playoff team, granted small sample size but still) would allow that team to not have to give up as much.
Whereas Cain is younger, never been injured in the ML’s, and comes cheaper.
I would hate to lose Cain, but I see the logic in trading him, especially when there are so many good pitchers in our system. I think I would want a solid OF in return
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 24, 2009 12:35 AM PDT reply actions
You ask for so little. And boy do you get it!
Crappier pitching staff, slightly better offense. Have we really improved? The so many good pitchers in our farm aren’t ready for the majors yet. I could see trading him in a year or two, when one of our top pitching prospects is actually ready to replace him. But they aren’t really ready yet.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
seeing as how we will probably draft a very good high school pitcher in this draft, I’d be down to move Cain for the right type of package. I mean, we have pitching at all levels, but have next to no hitting. You have to part with something good to get something good (unless you’re trading with the Pirates).
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
If only Chris Wallace was a baseball-GM.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I’m actually totally fine with trading Cain for a couple of reasons.
We’ve got a glut of pitching prospects, and not as many great hitting prospects, and that trend is likely to continue with this next draft. It doesn’t make sense to hang on to ALL of our good pitching prospects.
Cain is having his worst season ever this year(by pretty much every peripheral out there), but his value is probably at an all time(thankfully ERA and W-L are still heavily relied upon in the baseball world). We need to sell high, and if we can get an equivalent hitting prospect(Chris Davis? Texas seems to be a really good trading partner, as our teams are pretty much polar opposites), I don’t see a reason not to.
actually Chris Davis seems logical. Except that he’s batting .203, with a .265 OBP
I know, I know, its still relatively early, and her hit 17 HRs last year and whatnot, but Im not sure I can handle another guy whos gonna strike out a lot and not hit for average. Especiallly considering our whole team strikes out a lot and doesnt hit fotr average, or power, or anything.
So yes, Chris Davis would be a very good option.
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 24, 2009 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Ugh Chris Davis no thanks. We have plenty hackers already. Shit we can just bring up McPherson for that later. The only plus about Davis is he seems to be really good defensively at 1st base.
well 17 Hrs and .385 last year
lets see McPherson do that
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 24, 2009 2:01 AM PDT up reply actions
bythe way thats supposed to say .285
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 24, 2009 2:01 AM PDT up reply actions
let’s see Chris Davis’ numbers at ATT. Be careful here if you trade Matt Cain for an hitter. How do you know he doesn’t struggle at ATT and go Aaron Rowand headcase like?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Small sample size
Proud parent of future rookie of the year, Gerald Posey!
by GiantsFanInExile on May 24, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t believe other GM’s are stupid enough to look at ERA and W/L.. His value is probably at an all time low due to his velocity and lowering periphs.. This is NOT the time to trade him.
Brandon Crawford: Your 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
From the article:
“We obviously can compete, but we know where we’re challenged, and it’s maybe more acute than we thought it would be,” said Sabean, before the Giants beat Seattle 5-1 on Saturday night at Safeco Field.
Sounds like all Sabean would care is if they just “compete”. I doubt Cain gets traded for this. If Cain gets trade just so the Giants can “compete”, he should be fired the minute the trade goes through.
In the second year of a three to five year rebuilding program, being able to compete (which to me means simply getting above .500) is an appropriate stage to be in… next year is the first year contending becomes thinkable.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 24, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions
if and when Cain does get traded, we have to be able to throw in Rowand in the deal…
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on May 24, 2009 4:11 AM PDT reply actions
If the Rangers took it, they’d be crazy. That would be Smoak and Cruz for Cain, and we’d get to dump Rowand’s salary. At least that’s my thought.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
except
I bet Rowand would have a career resurgence getting away from AT&T and getting to hit in Arlington for half the season. So I’m guessing that trade would blow up in our face when Rowand hits .290 with 28 HR and 100 RBI. And we have no offensive production from the OF still.
Are all the people clamoring for Sabean the trade Matt Cain the same ones who have been deriding him as incompetent? How is it that you feel comfortable in having him trade away an absolute stud like Matt Cain?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 24, 2009 8:10 AM PDT reply actions
+1
This is why I don’t want Sabean anywhere near a phone right now (unless it’s to take a call from Bill Neukom letting him know he’s fired).
I think there probably are any number of good deals the Giants could make right now to add hitting—some of which could even include dealing Cain. Unfortunately, I have zero confidence that Brian Sabean has any kind of capacity to make any of those deals. Sabean’s track record, for far too long where trades and FA signings are concerned, has been to either overpay, or underget, or both.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
You've got to break eggs to make and omelet.
The Giants organization is massively unbalanced towards pitching, and the most blatanty obvious hole is the lack of middle of the order-type hitters/hitting prospects anywhere near the majors. You can’t fill that hole without giving up players who are legitimately good. Thankfully, the Giants happen to have an abundance of legitimately good pitchers and pitching prospects.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Cain is a good pitcher, but his value is above what it would be in any other ballpark. His HR/FB is only so low because of our home park. I’d like to see a trade for an above average, young hitter. However, Cain’s has shown an ability to be a 4 win pitcher. Here’s a list of young 3-4 win hitters from last year: Quentin (4.5), Victorino (4.1), Hamilton (4), Braun (3.9), Peralta (3.9), Votto (3.8), Granderson (3.8), McLouth (3.6), Morneau (3.5), AGonz (3.4), Ellsbury (3.3), Kemp (3.3), Escobar (3.2).
Does anyone see any of those trades happening? The Sox might move Quentin because they need pitching, and his BABIP is low, and they might see him as a fluke. Outside of that, perhaps McLouth (We could move him to a COF spot, which is probably better for him.) Apologies if this list is partially wrong/incomplete.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
Names, at last
That’s the kind of post I would make if I were paying more attention to baseball. Service and accomplishment equivalents. And so far none are taking this very fine bait.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
Peralta
If the season is truly lost for the Tribe, I could see them moving Peralta. He is now, and should be , playing 3B instead of SS. Hodges is about ready, Marte is experiencing something of a resurgance and De Rosa could competently finish out the season. Would the Giants still be interested if Peralta is morphing into a 3B?
The Tribe would have to interested in moving Peralta for pitching. He’s not very good defensively and is no longer a SS. However, he hasn’t been very good thus far this year (OPS+: 81) and really hasn’t come close to replicating his 2005. Maybe he needs a change of scenery. Who knows? Anyway, the Giants would need a little more than Peralta, even if he was worth 4 wins just because it’s starting to look like he won’t realize his potential. I don’t think position should make an impact because you’d essentially be trading for a 1B as they’d move Pablo across the diamond.
Also, I had no idea Victorino was a 4+ win player.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Where do I start?
This headline would be a lot more fun if it was our big Johnson that was being dangled.
Someone referred to Cain as a “horse”, that must be some impressive dangling.
If Cain’s be dangled for a “package”, wouldn’t that be a wash?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Another thought. The Phillies need pitching, but they have an already high payroll. They’re looking for cheap but good pitching, and Cain seems to fit the bill. What would the Phillies have to give for us to part with Cain?
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
The Phillies are a pretty bad match. Their farm system is among the most arid in baseball (top prospect Carlos Carrasco is sporting a 6-something ERA) and their good major league hitters – Howard, Rollins, Utley – aren’t getting traded. Even the Mets would have more to offer. The Mets would have more to offer, especially if we sweetened the deal with Bengie, but still not much. Minnesota might be a good match, as they desperately need a top-of-the-rotation starter, as would the Cubs.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Not true. I think the Phillies have a couple of guys I would be interested in. First and foremost is their top prospect (an OF) Dominic Brown. Brown has a 1.016 OPS in High A Clearwater this year. He’s a 5 tool talent and WAY better than that overrated pos in Carrasco. Kyle Drabek has been pitching great since coming back from Tommy John surgery over a year ago. At High A Clearwater he’s 3-1 with a 2.91 ERA and 67 K in 52 2/3 IP.
Start with them. They also have 2 big COF prospects in Michael Taylor and John Mayberry Jr. that can provide some power in the ML’s.
So, I initially didn’t agree with you. The Phils’ organization has been getting panned for years now and I guess I bought into that, especially since BA hasn’t been pimping them. I still don’t think you can trade Cain if the best player you’re getting back is still in HiA. There’s just too much time for things to go wrong and you’re not really changing anything for the offense over the next couple years as our best offensive prospects are in HiA, as well.
MLEs for the hitters:
Mayberry (AAA): .220/.266/.397. So that’s pretty ghastly. He’s a three-true outcomes player who doesn’t walk a whole lot.
Taylor (AA): .267/.308/.465 Better.
Brown (HiA): .257/.327/.421. Quite a bit better the Mayberry, even with the two-level difference.
So any package would be built around Brown or Taylor, and Mayberry is basically trade-fodder. I don’t know, I’m not real excited. To trade Cain, you have to be getting, at minimum, an elite AA prospect. plus a couple other actual prospects. It’s going to take a home-run package for it to make sense.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
At the risk of being totally bitch slap into submission with my own ignorance
Just what had Mayberry Jr got going on that Bowker doesn’t? Bowker has seemed to make better progress on his k/bb than Mayberry Jr. Don’t get me wrong, it is not like I would turn down a free Mayberry. I just want to know why he would be viewed as some much more valuable then the Bowker?
I mean if someone here suggested Bowker as part of a trade for a young Top of the Rotation Starting Pitcher I am fairly sure the rest of the McCoven would take that persons car keys and reduce their alcohol consumption for a bit.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 25, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I dont know why Cornball focused on Mayberry. I merely suggested he’s another guy who can play in the ML and provide some dingerz. If I was talking to the Phillies I would want Dominic Brown and Kyle Drabek to be in a deal with whoever else after that.
Cool. I was not (am not) trying to ride down Mayberry JR. Just trying to get how he should be viewed as different than as a Phillies version of Bowker.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 25, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Cain's Value is likely at its highest at the moment
If you subscribe tot he sell high theory.
He’s got 2+ years remaining on a cheap contract, is having an excellent start, and hasn’t gotten hurt yet.
The prospect of Cain’s value increasing isn’t very likely. If you are ever going to trade Cain, right now is when his value at its peak.
Just a thought.
I agree
and I just don’t think you’ll enough to really make a difference (short- or long-term) by dealing Sanchez.
Me too
Sure would be nice to borrow Beane for a couple weeks.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
Indians
need pitching and have lot’s of position player depth. Better than average farm system.
Peralta + La Porta + 1 more
I don’t see it. I could see them doing Peralta strait up, because he has essentially the same contract situation as Cain (Reasonable 2009 with a 2010 option), but they won’t trade LaPorta and another player i think.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
They see Peralta as their third baseman of the future, hence them trying to move DeRosa.
Proud parent of future rookie of the year, Gerald Posey!
by GiantsFanInExile on May 24, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
That would be the one guy they wouldn’t trade. How about a smaller deal, say Sanchez (returning to Ohio) for Garko?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Not true. There has been much talk that V-Mart will become available. Their best prospect is Carlos Santana who is in AA with a near 1.000 OPS, a prospect who is arguably better then our own Buster Posey. They also have Shoppach who can play C. V-Mart I think has 1 year left at like 9 or 7 million or something. Pretty affordable but Cleveland is a mid-market team and he is obviously their best trade piece right now.
I forgot about CSantana. Hmm. How bad is Victor at 1B, defensively? I still want Smoak, doggone it; but Martinez would sure be interesting.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
Don't trade Cain
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou. "He has some bat speed and the ball comes off the bat pretty well" - K.Law.
Cain's Value is at a peak right now
If there ever was a time to trade him, now would be it.
As Cain is an established #2 ML starter, the asking price starts at 1 “can’t miss” prospect + several high risk/reward players.
Ideally the prospect is someone who you project to be ready sometime this year.
by FairweatherFan on May 24, 2009 10:19 AM PDT reply actions
Don't trust Sabean
First off, I don’t want Cain to be traded. He’s valuable and my absolute favorite Giant.
Second, I worry that Sabean would trade him for veteran savvy bats that’ll be gone in a year or two. He’d do this to save his job, not to improve the club in the young run. If the team is committed to rebuilding through young players, then Cain would have to be dealt for multiple young impact bats like Wallace or Smoak + more. I don’t think Cain would fetch as much as the Bedard or Haren deals, but it would be close. That’s the only kind of deal I’d be interested in for him….of course, the A’s and O’s made those trades knowing they’d suck for a few more years. I’m not sure Sabean can make a trade like that knowing it would add a couple more years of rebuilding. He won’t last that long. That’s why I don’t trust him.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 24, 2009 10:32 AM PDT reply actions
You don’t think the White Sox GM looks at BABiP and thinks Quentin will rebound? You can’t actually believe he’s dumber than we are.
Brandon Crawford: Your 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
is this a response to what I wrote? i don’t see it.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 24, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
There’s a lot of evidence that Kenny Williams is pretty stupid.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I’m guessing this was directed at me :P
I said it was possible. And frankly, I don’t, after he gave up on Swisher (as superk1ng said). Quinten was a post hype sleeper, and he came out of essentially nowhere. The fact that he’s started off slow, plus the nagging injuries, might cause him to sell low.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
Im scared
Something tells me we are going to end up with Aubrey Huff
Not so proud adoptive parent of the set-up man.
This is definitely not Howry do it!
Be afraid, be very afraid.
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 24, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I would trade Cain for the right deal.
I’m not all that confident that Sabean would make the right deal.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
One could consider it the “right deal” if Sabean screws it up enough to finally get canned.
or not.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I had to watch some M’s fans go through this last season with Bavassi and the Betard trade. It is a lot like watching someone you don’t hate go through sever detox. I don’t recommend it.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 24, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I say we keep Cain and get rid of Sabean and Bochy.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 24, 2009 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I don’t usually swear on the board but, SO FUCKING THIS !!
"One percent of ballplayers are leaders of men. The other ninety-nine percent are followers of women."-John McGraw, NY Giants Baseball Club
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
END OF THREAD
Moderators, please delete everything before and after nostocksjustbonds’s post. Thank you.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
No
No.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
If both Alderson and Bumgarner are ready to be in the rotation next year, I’d definitely consider it. But now? No. I don’t want Pat Misch or Ramon Ortiz or Steve Hammond in our rotation for the rest of the year.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Trading Cain is definitely more of an offseason type deal.
Unless Sabean were literally willing to settle for prospects and unproven players. Playoff-bound teams rarely have interest in moving current major league contributors at the deadline, even to get a “better” (or just more needed) player in return.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
100% agreement. Once we really have that prospect that could provide above average pitching to replace Cain, that’s when you really look to move him.
I’d be cool with them moving Sanchez if a good deal comes up, but less so for Cain.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
We have that prospect in Bumgarner/Alderson.
Can they replace Cain immediately? probably not. But there’s a good chance that one or both can by next season.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
That’s what I’m saying. I totally agree that trading Cain would be more of an offseason move, like you said above.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
If the right deal comes along, I don't see much reason to wait.
It’s not like we’re going anywhere this season, Cain or no.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
But there’s a good chance that one or both can by next season
That’s not true. RJ is leaving, so if only one of them is ready, trading Cain would still leave a whole in the rotation.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry. Because he was awesome once, and, goddammit, he shall be awesome once again!
I hope.
A whole hole, or just a partial hole?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
I have no faith in Brian Sabean
to be able to pull of anything resembling a reasonable trade.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
The Orioles are desperate for pitching it seems, but I dont want Aubrey Huff. I would love, love, love if Sabean managed to trade our whole lineup plus Cain for Markakis.
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 24, 2009 11:12 AM PDT reply actions
Nick Johnson was a late scratch from the Nats' lineup today.
Let the speculation begin.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
he was removed for stomach discomfort apparently.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 24, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
So it entirely possible he has already been told!
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 24, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
That should be a green comment
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
CAIN FOR FIELDER AND HARDY!!!!!!!!
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
and Braun and Gamel
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 24, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn, I did it wrong.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Prepare for Kawakami's vengeful blog response
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Rios’s production has dipped in the couple of seasons since that insane rumor, but even pre-2008, it’s mind-boggling to me that anyone would look at his numbers and say he was a “franchise hitter” or worthy of Lincecum.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
Just hang up right now please.
"One percent of ballplayers are leaders of men. The other ninety-nine percent are followers of women."-John McGraw, NY Giants Baseball Club
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Read His Lips
Whats he saying?
Mick Gohnson?
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 25, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
The last thing I want to hear...
Is Cain for Nick Johnson or something retarded like that.
But I honestly wouldn’t put it past Sabean.
by AmorVincitOmnia on May 24, 2009 12:46 PM PDT reply actions
so help me god, if he does this i will not buy another giants ticket until he and big head are both fired. i’m not a season ticket holder or anything, but if you trade away one of the building blocks of the organization’s future, one of only two certifiable “stars” the team has developed from within in the last ten years on any kind of a “win now” plan, i will become the rantingest, ravingest member the lunatic fringe has ever known.
Don’t trade Matt Cain. Don’t trade Tim Lincecum. Don’t trade Buster Posey or Madison Bumgarner. Preferably, don’t trade Pablo Sandoval, at least not yet (maybe when Buster is knocking on the big league door and Pablo has established himself defensively as a major league catcher). These are my only rules for you at the minute Brian. Try hard not to f*** them up.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 24, 2009 1:50 PM PDT reply actions
Why not Hanley Ramirez.
The Marlin’s have been upset with him. He has been an attitudinal problem this year, and despite his tremendous talent, they do not like his tude. If the giants could make him be a good citizen it might be worth it. The fishes no 1. pitcher this year, who almost no hit the giants last year Ricky Nolasco who was very Cain like with better control, has totally fallen apart. Their best pitcher now is Johnson, Ramirez may be more doable than we think.
rotation 2011
lincecum, cain, bumgarner, alderson and unfortunately zito and
Sanchez could be moved to the back end of the pen either the 8th or closer
inning. With the good young hitters coming up and a good fee agent acquisition, this team can win for years. This year lets get rid of one of my favorite players, Rich Aurillia, and give Guzman, or Frandsen a legit chance.
Raising Cain or Razing Cain?
Now would be the time to trade Matt Cain if the Giants want to sell high. Perhaps he will step his game up significantly, but when he has made big runs before (including April of 2007, when he yielded only 12 hits in 33 innings), he hasn’t been able to follow through.
That said, I don’t think the Giants will be able to get value for Matt. Two winters ago Toronto was unwilling to take him for Alex Rios — and the Giants need probably TWO hitters who are better than Alex.
Also, at 28 Alex is at the top of the age range the Giants should be looking for.
Agreed
Rios is older than I would like, nd I think we need someone more powerful
Also I think the Rays offered Rios for Lincecum, thats a big step-up from Cain
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 25, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
*Jays
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 25, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Cain is Able
The Jays did indeed offer Rios for Lincecum, not for Cain. Brian Sabean made it clear, however, that they wouldn’t take Cain instead. He didn’t speciffically say that the Giants had OFFERED Cain for Rios; merely that the Jays weren’t interested in the substitution.
I’m fairly certain Cain would get back much better then Alex Rios. Rios also two winters ago was much more highly regarded than he is now. He of the 2 subpar seasons since then combined with getting nicked up here and there.
Rios is still good, but were overrun with OFs, and I would prefer someone with a litte more pop
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 25, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point
You make a good point that Alex Rios’ value has come down in the past season and a quarter. But that the Jays wouldn’t take Cain in return then indicates somewhat the lid on what is likely available for Matt. I doubt it is high enough to make such a trade worthwhile.
Maybe 3 players I would consider for Cain
Maybe Nick Markakis, but that is marginal, the other two are Ryan Braun, or Handley Ramirez, and I am not sure i would do that. We might add Ryan Zimmerman to that list.
I would go for Zimmerman
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 25, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
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