Has there ever been a player with less power than Manny Burris?
by NeifiChicken on May 20, 2009 11:40 AM PDT
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This isn't a rag on Burris post or anything, it's a serious question, can you name a major league player that has ever had LESS power than Manny Burris?
Burris career minor league isoP: .052
Burris career MLB isoP: .038
Some ideas that came to mind
Willie Bloomquist
Minors: .094
Majors: .063
Juan Pierre
Majors: .071
Minors: .062
Duane Kuiper
Majors: .045
Minors: .064
Joey Gathright
Majors: .041
Minors: .051
Gathright is about as close as it gets, and that should be a reason for concern. Gathright pretty much has all the tools of Burris, speed, contact, walk rates, etc. In fact, Gathright has a far more impressive resume to Burris through age 24 (.315/.398/.364 minor league line with tons of steals)
Yet if you look at Gathright now, he just hasn't had much of a big league career sitting at .262/.327/.303
I certainly hope Burris can exceed that (and wouldn't you know it, those numbers are comparable to his current season). Just another reason to possibly taper optimism (if you have it) on Manny Burris.
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I have the bobblehead of a ex-player who had less power than Manny Burriss. The bobblehead is of two ex-players (the other one is a former 20-game-winner), and they’re sitting at a desk with microphones in front of them.
Man, do I love that bobblehead. The audio batteries ran out, though, and there’s no way to replace them.
by Grant on May 20, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I forgot Kuiper
Just as you posted this, I edited my message. However, on paper, Kuiper barely beats him out
by NeifiChicken on May 20, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much would it take to get that bobblehead out of your hands???
by ACgiant97 on May 20, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I STILL WANT ONE OF THOSE SO BADLY
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by jponry on May 20, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is isop?
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by cloudydays on May 20, 2009 11:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
isolated Power
basically SLG percentage minus AVG
by NeifiChicken on May 20, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i see
looks like the wrong manny was juicing lol
Best of Senator Clay Davis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4-QyAzY64&feature=related
by cloudydays on May 20, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by Josh from Hollywood on May 20, 2009 11:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rafael Belliard.
.259 slugging percentage
.038 isop
2 home runs in 2524 career plate appearances
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 20, 2009 12:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t he hit a homerun against the Giants last week?
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by Natto on May 20, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never mind, that was Ron.
Judgment Day is coming
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by Natto on May 20, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how did this guy stay in the league for 17 years?
by NeifiChicken on May 20, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was good defensively (supposedly, I don’t know his STATS) and the Braves had enough power elsewhere that they could afford his dead weight, I guess.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 20, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I despised batting with him in Ken Griffey Jr baseball for super nintendo.
by Fresburg on May 20, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IF you have enough power elsewhere, carrying a powerless defensive specialist can make sense (a run denied is a run earned), and if the OBP is high enough, they will be driven in often enough to be productive.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 20, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Belliard had a .270 career OBP, so, yeah.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 20, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yikes.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 21, 2009 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everybody confused him with Rafael Bournigal.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on May 20, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that I check, his minor league isop was .048.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 20, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that’s with several rehab stints.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
by jcb9 on May 20, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Gathright was an outfielder and Burriss is a middle infielder, so he has a bit more room to suck at hitting.
But the answer is Hal Lanier, I’m sure, had less power than Burriss. And no, I’m not going to go check his isoP.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on May 20, 2009 1:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
a) sadly Lanier puts Burris’ power to shame
b) You’re right that gives Burris a little more wiggle room, but since Gathright was a CF it’s not as much as you’d think. If Burris hits .265/.330/.315 that is simply not going to cut it at any position, unless he is the greatest defensive 2B of all time
by NeifiChicken on May 20, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mentioning Hal Lanier makes me wonder about some of our other light-hitting shortstops, especially the immortal Roger Metzger…
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on May 21, 2009 6:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pop
Both Maury Wills and Ozzie Smith had similar lacks of power at the beginning of their major league careers. Both improved in that regard as time went on.
Ozzie’s minor league power was as bad as Manny’s, but Maury’s was better. Of course, Maury hit only right[-handed for much off his long stint in the minors.
I think Manny needs to focus on line drives and ground balls — and hope he hits some balls deep enough that outfielders don’t choke him off. The Giants would like him to try to bunt at least once a game, too, which seems a good idea. Manny has a .400 average when he tries to bunt for a hit. And even the bluffed bunt helps keep the infield in so that he can hit more balls past them.
Jose Vizcaino is a player who hit for a similar lack of minor league power to Manny. Hopefully Manny will become a better player than Jose, although Vizcaino did enjoy a very long career, if mediocre-at-best.
And Manny is a better fielder than Viz.
by sharksrog on May 20, 2009 1:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ozzie was my knee jerk reaction as well. Granted, he was the best defensive SS in my lifetime, but didn’t hit a lick in San Diego, and for his first few years in St. Louis.
by tyrannoman on May 20, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kuiper was my immediate reaction, Im sure there is someone.
Not so proud adoptive parent of the set-up man.
This is definitely not Howry do it!
by CB30 on May 20, 2009 2:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
more like
Has there ever been a TEAM with less power than the 2009 SF iGnats? Apart from other Giants teams, I mean.
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by The Gene Hackman on May 20, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Luis Castillo?
career minor league IsoP: .049
major league IsoP up to his age 24 season (which is 5 seasons in the majors, though not 5 full seasons): .053
He didn’t start hitting for any kind of power until his 4th season in the majors, though, which was his age 23 season. I’d be pretty happy if Manny turned out to be anything near Luis Castillo’s Marlins days
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by theghostofjasonellison on May 20, 2009 2:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d love for Manny to become Luis Castillo. I think Castillo’s power comes all from the right side, which is similar to what I’d expect from Manny (if he gets any power at all).
Brandon Crawford: Your 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
by Azmanz on May 20, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d hate for Sabean to sign him to a 4 year deal when he starts declining though…. D:
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on May 20, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Tyner is one of the first people I think about when I think about lack of power:
MLB ISO: .049
Minors ISO: .052
And one career home run.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on May 20, 2009 5:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tied with Duane Kuiper on the all time HR list!
Didn’t he sing for the MC5?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 20, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playing the majority of his games at AT&T, Petco and Dodger Stadium won’t help Burris hit with power.
by SFGuy on May 20, 2009 6:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Walt Weiss
.068 for his career. And that’s with 4 years in Colorado which probably helped inflate it a tad. Weiss also never stole many bases or walk much. He started to reach base more via BB later in his career after age 28. Still not sure how he ever won ROY in 1988. Bryan Harvey got robbed!
by Hobbes2d on May 20, 2009 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought Harvey was 89?
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by ResDog on May 21, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, 88.
/hangs head in shame.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on May 21, 2009 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Belanger with his career .052 ISO, 300 OBP comes to mind. ( And you thought Pete Happy P.A’s were fun!)
Basically is you can field a middle infield position(s) well while having speed and know how to use that speed well this game has a place for you. This is especially true a in a non DH league.
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by daveinexile on May 21, 2009 9:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Haven't checked
But how about a blast from the Giants past: Johnnie LeMaster of Disaster? Though he did something few hitters ever do, which is hit a homer in his first AB (inside the park job, natch).
Though, I think Mark Belanger certainly should be up there, good one daveinexile.
And pretty much any Giants prospect up the middle since the early 70’s would be candidates, I would think, though they probably haven’t compiled enough ABs to be considered.
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"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
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by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 21, 2009 10:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lemaster – if memory serves – was a very strong person. He just rarely seemed to be able to apply it to the ball on the MLB level. One of many reasons he was extremely frustrating to follow. His minor ISO was .088 and .067 ISO in the majors.
I chose Belanger becasue he was actauly a very good and useful player on the MLB level for a lot years despite his bat.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 21, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did not know that!
Thanks! Very interesting, given his lack of power. That’s basically the same with Burriss, Lansford says that Burriss is very strong but not using it in his swing. Must be in the Giants DNA. :^)
Good point about Belanger, but I just followed the post’s question, which was who had a low power.
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
"He got his pitch; he did not miss it" - Cainer
"Kung Fu Panda don't get hurt" - Cainer
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 21, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is perhaps the place to note that a quarter way into the season the ’09 Giants are ranking as the most punchless team since the expansion ’93 Marlins. No team since those Marlins can match our putrid .365 SLG, our pathetic .111 ISOp, or our 75 OPS+ (93 FLA: .346 FLA, 98 ISOp, 74 OPS+).
Of course those numbers should all rise as we move through the tiny ballparks of the east in the coming months, but will they rise enough to lift us above the previous standard bearer for 21st century offensive futility wasting brilliant pitching, the 2003 Dodgers (.368 SLG, 125(!) ISOp, 79 OPS+)?
The race begins!
PS, oh yeah, Oakland’s every bit as crappy as us.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on May 21, 2009 1:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping you'd respond here, Roger
I distinctly remember you warning us that Burriss had way too little power to ever make it as a big league hitter. Your insight was right on.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on May 21, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I’d rather hope to be wrong. I wonder when we’re going to break our string of bringing up switch hitters who can’t hit from the left side? It kinda defeats the purpose. And makes me pine for the days of watching JT Snow hit right handed.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on May 21, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curious where Mike Benjamin ranks among some of these guys….
by Hobbes2d on May 21, 2009 7:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Benjamin had a 1.10 ISO ( SLG – AVG)in the majors & 1.29 ISO in the minors.
I use to have link that showed “average” ISO range for position but I have lost it over time. If some else has one available and the time to post it I would be much appreciative. Thanks
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 22, 2009 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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