Bochy and the Stolen base problem..
by Mordy From Monsey on May 17, 2009 8:58 AM PDT
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PrintAfter watching the Mets run wild on us over the last 3 games, one has to wonder ,what our braindead manager plans on doing about it....The first thing that comes to mind is an occasional pitchout, right? You would think, as a former manager, Bochyass, would call them from the dugout every now and then!!!
Sometimes a team lacks hitting or pitching talent (in our case the former) and there really isn't much you can do about it. (short of waiting till minor league prospects mature or banging the FA mkt...Rowand aside!!) ...However playing poor fundamental Baseball is inexcusable!! Holding runners on is as basic as it gets!!Someone has to be held accountable!! Whether it's Righetti, Bochy, or Steve Holm( have to throw him in there!!) , I wat to see heads roll!!
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I agreed with everything you said until the name Steve Holm came up. Since he hasn’t played in this series, I don’t get the reference. However, your point is solid. I don’t think they’ve called one pitchout in this series. You really have to wonder exactly what our manager is doing once the game starts, besides planning when to make his first double switch. If they lose again tonight, I would fire Bochy immediately after this game. It sends a message to the organization that they’re not conceding the 2009 season. If the Mets are so much better than the Giants, why did they enter this series with the same exact record? The Mets have exposed every weakness that the Giants’ have, and the Giants’ have made the Mets look like World Champions. I live in NY and have seen all the deficiencies of this Mets’ team. You jump on their weak rotation early, you keep the rabbits in front of Beltran and Wright off the bases, and you jump on any bullpen member before they get to Putz and KRod. The Giants’ have failed at all of these things.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Through all the “lose” to better your draft position spot days of the past several seasons, I have never rooted for a Giants loss.
If they lose again tonight, I would fire Bochy immediately after this game.
If this were true, if this was Sabean’s thinking, if somehow a Giants loss tonight would be a Bochy firing tomorrow, I would root for a Giants loss tonight. Sorry Cain.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
If this were true, if this was Sabean’s thinking, if somehow a Giants loss tonight would be a Bochy firing tomorrow, I would root for a Giants loss tonight.
This has to be Neukom’s thinking. It sends a message to Sabean and reinforces his statement that he wants to recreate the franchise.
Neukom Duke !
"One percent of ballplayers are leaders of men. The other ninety-nine percent are followers of women."-John McGraw, NY Giants Baseball Club
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
The Holm reference was a joke….The catcher has to be help partially responsible, and you can’t can Molina or Pablo….It really irritates me to give up 90 feet so easily…It’s as if though Giant pitchers are concedeing the SB….Simply no excuse for that….Hate to belabor the point, but someone simply has to be held responsible…
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on May 17, 2009 9:33 AM PDT reply actions
the manager definitely has to call for some pitchouts. Even if the runner isn’t going, it at least puts the thought into the mind of the baserunner. Bengie was third in the league at throwing out runners before this series, so he’s clearly not to blame for what’s going on here. The manager is the problem. He’s just not into the game. He fills out the lineup card and then sits on his hands. It’s not just the stolen base thing. He’s slow to get relievers warmed up in the bullpen, and he constantly brings in the wrong pitcher or uses the wrong pinch hitter.
There’s just so many examples that I could fill up this page writing them. Bringing in Merkin to face fastball hitters like Sheff and Wright with men on base was disastrous. Joe Torre bluffing him into pitching to Casey Blake, like he was going to pinch hit for Billingsley in the sixth inning of a tie game was another. Sending Richie up to hit against a righty on Thursday when he could have bluffed Manuel into bringing in a lefty by sending Nate up there is another. There’s just too many to mention. I know the players like him, but Bochy is terrible at managing a baseball game.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Fire Bochy
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
by kennv on May 17, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How is this team losing after scroe 6 times outside of Coors?
All I can say is if the ’09 Giants score 6 runs in a game they should be winning those 9 out of 10 times. During this streak there has not been a single "emergency" start and only 2 starts didn’t go 5 innings the Big Head should be pacing things better than this. I know this is the end of the long string of games the ‘Pen has been wore down and starting position players banged up but this has to look bad on the manager.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 17, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I had to get real close to th' monitor...
…but I c wut u did ther
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on May 19, 2009 2:49 AM PDT up reply actions
What I would really like to see
is a seasoned veteran such as Randy Johnson step up and address the team and the issues concerning holding the runners at 1st and 2nd. I don’t think the coaching staff had a part to do in this because of the work the probably did during spring training, but even if they didn’t talk about this, these are major league players. Holding runners should have been learned in the minors, and if that didn’t happen, they should have asked for the help. I think the blunt of the responsibility is on the players, and if they needed to learn this, they could ask any number of the bullpen coaches or Righetti.
Adopted Giant Darren "Speedy" Ford. Said by Andrew Baggarly to be the fastest minor league player and the best defensive outfielder in the Giants Organization. Now playing for your San Jose Giants.
We’ve allowed stolen bases at a 74% success rate, league average is 70%, so at this point in the season we’re talking about ONE baserunner worse than a typical team, or roughly 343225rd in the list of reasons the Giants are not very good.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
I agree that up until this series it hasn’t been a problem, but don’t you think that other teams are going to see what the Mets have done this weekend and attempt to do the same thing? The sad thing is that the Mets have done this with their leading base threat not even playing!! This is a problem that needs to be fixed.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
Teams might try to turn it up, I’m just not sure yet whether they’ll get the 10 for 29 throwing from the rest of the season or the 1 for 14 from the last series (and, wow, I didn’t realize it was that many). They might run roughshod, but they might go 5 for 10 and stop trying.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
DAMN THE STATS
so far this series the Mets have swiped 13 bases while only getting caught once…Am I supposed to feel better that the Giants are only 4% above the league average??
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on May 17, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
75% is about the break even point where the extra bases outweigh the outs given up, so while this series hurts, if you take the long view, things aren’t catastrophic yet… feel better?
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 17, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Someone has to be held accountable!!
how about the pitchers?
by FluLikeSymptoms on May 17, 2009 12:08 PM PDT reply actions
"how about the pitchers?"
I can’t imagine any pitcher that wants to put himself in a position to fail,by consistently conceding 90 feet and putting runners in scoring position. Having said that, I have to conclude that “holding runners on” hasn’t been high on the coaches priority list…Pumpkinhead Bochy should be held accountable since he is the ultimate supervisor
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on May 17, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
First to blame: Pitchers. Second: Rags.
Our (all) pitchers need to mix up their looks and throw in a regular amount of pauses to keep the runners honest. The staff has been far too predictable with their deliveries/looks/times to home allowing the walking lead/ great jumps.
After the first couple SBs it is Rags responsibility to get in the pitchers faces and instruct them that they can’t brain-fart and forget about the runners. Honestly, the staff has reminded me of a HS/Juco team with their lack of ability to hold runners close as of late.
Interesting note: If you are to watch amateur baseball, after a bases-empty double, the pitcher will deliver the next pitch with no looks to 2nd about 75% of the time. Recently the Giants have reminded of this type of play.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on May 17, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
It could be that they also have very good, very athletic personnel up and down the lineup and all over the bench. And if they see a weakness in a team’s game, they have the ability to make it hurt.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 17, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, my theory that Righetti is not a great teaching coach and is more suited to getting the most out of a staff of veterans than developing a staff of youngsters is looking better and better.
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 17, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Its not 100% Bighead’s fault, the pitchers are checking the runners like once, and then pitching like 10 seconds later. The runers have all th.e time in the world to get a jump and go
The San Francisco Giants: Where old men go to die.
by GrahamCrakalaka on May 17, 2009 12:25 PM PDT reply actions
Or...
…they SWOOPToBetterBases!
NL West TempestTeapot
Nothing matters , and what if it did?
by victor frankenstein on May 19, 2009 2:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Is the pitchout really a good play?
I’d be interested to see if there are any studies. I get the feeling that it’s a bit like the hit and run: makes sense on paper, but hurts the team in practice. Just kind of over-strategizing that works the the detriment of the team. It’s worth noting that the Giants are 4th in the NL in walks allowed, and the Mets have already worked 17 free passes in 3 games, so I don’t think it makes alot of sense to start handing them more favorable counts via the pitchout. Giants pitchers are having enough trouble keeping them off base as it is.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
My person opinion pitch outs are best used like suicide squeezes.
Using the pitch out as a steady diet? Not a great idea.
Using a pitch out in case of fire when a team starts to run wild on you? It is a very good idea. Even the 80’s Cards had a hard time when pitch out was sprung on them at the correct time.
I know now stats but I needed to vent a bit.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
I don’t think the suicided squeeze is ever a good idea.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry. Because he was awesome once, and, goddammit, he shall be awesome once again!
I hope.
I can respect that.
Considering we got certain guys that constantly show they can’t even hit a Sac fly with a fast runner on Third and less than 2 out. Under those kinds of situations I start considering dusting that move off. It doesn’t mean I automatically do it but it should start getting consideration in those kind of extreame conditions.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
It just seems like a high risk, low reward move that has a pretty good chance of failing. It’s fun, though.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry. Because he was awesome once, and, goddammit, he shall be awesome once again!
I hope.
To be fair
Runner on third and less than two outs already has a pretty good chance of failing with the Giants…
Duane Kuiper: Hall Of Fame broadcaster.
by Johnny Disaster on May 17, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
This is basically what I am saying but with a lot of extra words.
I think when the odds get bad enough then one should start considering non conventional options. Options one would usually not use. I place pitch outs and squeezes in that non conventional category.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
I just don’t think that there’s any chance for a major league team to be bad enough for it to be wroth it. Not even the Giants.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry. Because he was awesome once, and, goddammit, he shall be awesome once again!
I hope.
Maybe. I have not thought about useing the squeeze with the ’09 Giants much. But if it is mid June and the same hitters are still having issues with productive out in that situation then i would then start sakign why not.
But this is getting off topic a bit. I mean when was the last time team stole some many bases in 2 games Vs the Giants? It has been a long time and in such a rare occuance the non standard option should at least be dusted off.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
Please ingnore the above. I hit the wrong botton.
Maybe. I have not thought about using the squeeze with the ’09 Giants much. But if it is mid June and the same hitters are still having issues with productive out in that situation then i would then start asking, "Why not?"
But this is getting off topic a bit. I mean when was the last time team stole so many bases in 2 games Vs the Giants? It has been a long time and in such rare occurrences the non standard option should at least be dusted off.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
Agreed. I feel much more comfortable with a safety-squeeze instead.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right
by Giant among Angels on May 17, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you're right, insofar as they both work best when the other team is caught by surprise.
Sadly, the times when the other team would actually be surprised by these plays tend to be the times when the one run or one CS isn’t going to have any effect the outcome of the game.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
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