Dunn Never Contacted By Giants
Apparently we never even opened a dialogue with Adam Dunn.
I know that most people, even the statistical-minded folks, are down on Dunn for his lousy defense, but I still would have taken him for what he got from the Nats.
almost 3 years ago
rotorueter
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Tires → Not kicked
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
At the end of the day
I am surprised by this
"Forget it Donny, you're out of your element"-Walter Sobchak
by icanplaythird on May 12, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I poke as much fun
as anybody at GINAS BRAS
But this guy was probably the most attractive of the scrap heap sluggers available last year, right?
I don’t think I understand why the choices for the offseason were
1. ask Ms. Ramirez if she would take $5 to play in SF for a season/be the straw man for Boras with the Dodgers
2. Now batting cleanup: Molina. Brain Samean FTW!
I have no illusions that Dunn would have made this team a WS contender, but I can tell you that this offense looks suspiciously like last year’s offense. Glad to know that was absolutely intentional.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
card carrying Bochy Hatter
by natteringnabob on May 12, 2009 10:10 AM PDT reply actions
I wonder what would have happened if the Phillies hadn’t immediately overblown their wad on Raul Ibanez.
If the market had been able to take its course, Ibanez might have actually been the best fit for us on a 1-2 year deal. He’s LOL OLD, so Sabean would have actually considered it. He’s still productive offensively, and has played a decent amount of 1B in his career. He might have been had for Bobby Abreu-type money.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Despite making a few decent moves this year, stuff like this confirms for me that Sabean just isn’t a very good GM anymore.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
*Wonders what you mean by anymore
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou. "He has some bat speed and the ball comes off the bat pretty well" - K.Law.
by BrianBokake on May 12, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I liked him when he was doing things like trading Ryan Vogelsong and Armando Rios for Jason Schmidt, or Darryl Hamilton and scraps for Ellis Burks. He was pretty good at building a team based around an in-his-prime Barry Bonds. Once that ceased to be viable, the cracks started to show.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
actually I think it shows what an utter failure he was.
He was spotted Barry Bonds – that’s 10 WINS PER SEASON FOLKS – and backed him up with stunningly average supporting casts.
A year or two ago I ran some crude numbers – and Sabes (minus Bonds) was stunningly average in the number of wins his teams were worth, when accounting for payroll.
And that’s with the amazing luck of Jeff Kent and Jason Schmidt – both players who turned out far, far better than could be predicted.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Still, he made some moves that you have to concede were pretty damn great. Along with some questionable ones and some terrible ones. It’s been quite a while since he got a real steal, though.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I understand why they wouldn’t kick the tires if it was largely because of Dunn’s expected lack of defense at 1B. He was absolutely awful in the WBC at first, and if the team was trying to improve D to protect the pitching staff… can’t find fault with that.
Proud parent of future rookie of the year, Gerald Posey!
by GiantsFanInExile on May 12, 2009 10:38 AM PDT reply actions
Dunn can hit and cannot defend. Renteria cannot hit and cannot defend. The two got similar contracts. I’d rather have the first guy.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Travis Ishikawa says
I jumped into the dugout last night!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
card carrying Bochy Hatter
by natteringnabob on May 12, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Dunn >>> Ishikawa
Renteria >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bocock-ochoa
Ergo for the ’09 Giants … Renteria > Dunn
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 12, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Bocock and Ochoa were never going to be our starting shortstops this year, though, so that’s not really a fair analogy. Without Renteria or another FA, our shortstop probably would’ve been Emmanuel Burriss. Who’s in the lineup anyway.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
You can i would have chosen Burriss. considerring they have been talking about Burriss at second for well over a year now I doubt we can assume managment would have put him at SS.
Besides the bocock-oacha could be defined as random “A” ball or sub scrub level player.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 12, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Based on fangraph values, so far Dunn this year is at 9.2 runs above replacement, while Renteria is at .8. Dunn’s played mostly outfield, so who knows what the value would be if he was at first the whole time, but that’s a pretty big gap for such a small amount of the season…
by Missing Barry on May 12, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Doh !
I just realized how silly this topic ( Renteria blocks Dunn) is. Frankly neither player would have been paid enough to prohibit signing the other.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 12, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I have stats for this, too. Giants payroll from ‘05-’07 was $90 million. ’08 was $76.6. ’09, as it stands now, is $82.6. Ditch Aurilia ($1 million), sign Dunn insetad (in addition to Renteria), and it seems like it would fall in the budget. Not to mention the fact that we should be paying more like $5 million a year for Renteria…
by Missing Barry on May 12, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
To play devil’s advocate (and not arguing that Renteria is worth more than Dunn), Dunn is also hitting about 60-70 points higher than his career average, and the last time he hit over .310 this late in the season he went on to hit sub-.180 for the rest of the year (mid-June to end-of-Sept if I remember correctly.) In other words, I don’t think those runs above replacement numbers will hold for Dunn over the course of the season…
Proud parent of future rookie of the year, Gerald Posey!
by GiantsFanInExile on May 12, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that was what I was going for. Sandoval-Burris-Frandsen-Dunn for the infield.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Oh man, those Giants are ALWAYS giving young players a chance over established veterans. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
When is the Nate at 3rd experiment going to ever end?!?!?!??!
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 12, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ve been on the GIVE THE KIDS A CHANCE bandwagon for years, but given certain obvious flaws with our lineup, I would’ve liked Sabean at least to look into options like Dunn.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I wasn’t defending Sabes. It was just a comment on how he’s making a different mistake than his usual one.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
Ah, I thought you were mocking the desire for signing a veteran from folks who’ve been clamoring for young players forever.
I do a lot of that kind of mockery myself.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a gigantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
It is an interesting debate
As what would be a more productive infield. Burriss/Frandsen/Dunn or Renteria/Burriss/Ishikawa.
by FairweatherFan on May 12, 2009 11:41 AM PDT reply actions
Is Burris still an option at SS though? Seems the Giants are pretty hell-bent on having him be a 2B moving forward.
Proud parent of future rookie of the year, Gerald Posey!
by GiantsFanInExile on May 12, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
This could explain the " Kevin Frandsen Fresno Experiment" as well.
"One percent of ballplayers are leaders of men. The other ninety-nine percent are followers of women."-John McGraw, NY Giants Baseball Club
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Allow me to advocate on behalf of the devil:
- Dunn might be a) not telling the truth or b) unaware that the Giants contacted his agent. Too bad John Shea didn’t try to get comment from the Giant FO.
- Perhaps Dunn would have turned down an offer to be a starting 1B. Unfortunately, Shea didn’t ask whether Dunn would have considered it.
- Would you want to see him playing RF every day at Mays Field?
- Don’t assume the Giants would have gotten him for what Washington paid. For all we know, he might have demanded a lot more to play in a park that sucks for LH power hitters.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
Would you want to see him playing RF every day at Mays Field?
Oh Gawds NO! That would be like a stepping out of the shower to find a naked, smiling, Lasorda there watching at you.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on May 12, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Best I could do in 5 minutes with MS Paint
Right now Jon Miller is somewhere wearing a flamboyant tie and thinking about me.
by Norm Median on May 12, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
CAN’T CATCH A BALL
wait, what game are we playing?
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
I thought you were all describing Goofus.
by Lars The Wanderer on May 12, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
/insert “Outfield Goofus” .gif
"One percent of ballplayers are leaders of men. The other ninety-nine percent are followers of women."-John McGraw, NY Giants Baseball Club
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
I'd have to guess it was a personality thing
The giants have been trying to put together a team of guys who have a reputation for playing hard. Whether it’s fair or not Dunn has a reputation of being a half-hearted ballplayer. I’m guessing this is the reasoning behind the decision.
First guys how have been there before, now guys who play hard, when do we get to guys with talent?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
After guys who don’t know how to play.
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on May 12, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
DUNN NOT GAMERY
can’t kick balls around outfield like Errin’ Rowand
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
card carrying Bochy Hatter
by natteringnabob on May 12, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Real Gamers miss games with grass burn and concusions.
Dunn stays in the lineup too much.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
And hits the cutoff man way too often.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on May 12, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
He's bonafide!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Well I'll be a sonofabitch. Delmar's been saved!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Say, any of you boys smithies?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
Clear Brian Sabean can't use all of his Schierholtz blocking bullets
in one season. He’ll sign a free agent outfielder NEXT YEAR after Randy Winn is gone. He needed to save that bullet.
I forget.
Didn’t Dunn, during some post-signing interview, basically say “I signed here because I didn’t have much of a choice”?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
What would Ishikawa have to hit to be equal in value to Dunn? .270/.345/.450, maybe? Probably not going to happen, but on a team going nowhere, I’d rather give the youngster a shot. Especially with Schierholtz and Guzman and Bowker lined up behind him as quasi prospects.
But it doesn’t make a lot of sense to sign Renteria and RJ but not make a call to Dunn.
If you call Dunn at 2.5-ish win player, Ishikawa would have to hit a wOBA of about .355 (give or take) to match Dunn’s overall value. That’s assuming that Ishikawa is a +8 run 1B, making him a top defender at the position in the NL. Ishikawa’s rest of the season wOBA projection is .313. His total season wOBA is projected at .305.
If you lower the bar to an even 2 wins, then Ishikawa would have to hit a .345 wOBA to be worth similar value.
Sure. But what’s that in, y’know, real numbers?
Maybe it’s not that close. We can only guess at the defensive numbers. Ishikawa’s clearly good but doesn’t seem like the next Keith Hernandez or anything, and maybe Dunn won’t prove to be as terrible at first as he was in left.
2.5 might be a bit high. Fangraphs has him at 1.8, 2.9, and 1.3 from 2006-08, though he was better before that (and now).
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