What To Do with Emmanuel Burriss
by Grant Brisbee on Apr 29, 2009 1:45 PM PDT
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PrintThis post had to come eventually. And I didn’t want to do it. I was pessimistic, sure. At least, I thought I was. It turns out that I was a little too optimistic. But I wanted to be wrong. I really did.
Emmanuel Burriss is killing me. Wait, that’s not right. How the Giants have handled Burriss his killing me. For the second straight year, a young player was put in a position in which it was almost impossible for him to succeed. Two years ago, Burriss hit .165 in the California League. To his credit, he responded well to a demotion -- .321/.371/.381 in the Sally. That’s low-A, mind you. It was a fine performance for a middle infielder, but he was still a 22-year-old in low-A.
Then the Giants started him in Fresno last year, which was a little bizarre. It’s an assignment that you might give someone who tore up high-A, but the Giants essentially skipped him over two levels. Okay, whatever. It’s good that the organization had faith in him, I guess. He didn’t hit at all in Fresno, but it was only in 62 at-bats.
In the early part of last season, the Giants brought up Burriss so he could sit on the bench. This was one year after he couldn’t handle the California League. So instead of 500 at-bats at a professional level, which would have been ideal for a young player looking to improve his hitting, Burriss ended up with 300. And surprise of surprises, for about 190 at-bats in May, June, and August, he was good. He hit .299 with a .409 on-base percentage in 103 August at-bats. This hot streak, along with a hot spring, convinced the Giants that he was ready for the majors. The sample size was small, but not laughably so. Still, it would have been more prudent for the Giants to see a full season of Burriss hitting well above low-A.
Last night, Burriss came up with runners on second and third, and one out. He hit a ball as hard as any he’s hit this year; it was an absolute rocket. But it was right at someone, and Travis Ishikawa strayed too far, and, well, double play. Whoops. Burriss took off his helmet, and he thought about firing it into the ground. He didn’t – his composure is just one on a list of reasons why he’s one of the more likable players on the team – but the frustration was evident. He finally hit a ball well, and it was right at someone. He was as defeated as I’ve ever seen a major league player.
The Giants don’t want to make any quick decisions with a struggling young player. That’s kind of nice, actually. It was always frustrating to watch guys like Todd Linden get yanked up and down after a handful of at-bats. So the Giants are caught between two options: a) send Burriss down when his confidence is already at an all-time low, or b) keep playing a young player who never really should have been in the majors. I don’t have a suggestion. Those are two really, really repugnant options. I just know that the Giants horribly mismanaged two young shortstops last year, and Burriss’s hitting .280 in his limited at-bats was probably the worst thing that could have happened to him.
As happy as I was about the Randy Johnson signing, as happy as I’ve been about the last couple of drafts, the Emmanuel Burriss debacle leaves me sick to my stomach. I’m guardedly optimistic about Burriss’s future, and I really hope he succeeds as a Giant. I hope this post looks awfully stupid in June, even. But all the available evidence points to a young player who shouldn’t have been rushed.
No stupid jokes, no cat pictures. This situation just makes me sad in fifteen different ways. Bang up job, Giants.
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This will sound harsh
Send him down. I don’t want him on the Giants….at least not right now.
IMO, I doubt he ever reaches replacement level.
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 29, 2009 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. He just doesn’t belong on a MLB roster.
The worst part is that he seems like such a nice kid. I sat next to some of his family members last season at a Nats game. They were really nice too.
It is an awful situation but it is what it is.
by thethrillisgone on Apr 29, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t see an overwhelming reason not to send him to Fresno.
They can give Franny a shot, and maybe he’ll succeed.
Yes, I would rather have Burris @ 2B then Uribe, but the way things are going I would not be pulling my hair out if I watch Franny play 2nd for a month. Hell, I’d even be slightly OK with a month of Renteria at 2B and Bocock @ SS. (I can’t believe I wrote that last sentence.)
Wisconsin: Famous for dairy, Ryan Rohlinger and not much else.
No need to replace one Bocock with another. No way Bocock v1.0 belongs on the big club.
If Renteria is out for any length of time, Uribe even with all his faults, is better than Burris and Bocock. If the Giants bring up Frandsen, he needs to start at 2B everyday.
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 29, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
How about the Mays statue?
Better range at short than Uribe.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
I couldn’t agree with you more. He’s such a likeable kid too, it’s really a bad situation
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Apr 29, 2009 1:54 PM PDT reply actions
The Burriss camp has been remarkedly silent during this time. Probably because his adoptive mother is crushed.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 29, 2009 1:54 PM PDT reply actions
I'm hoping for the coming of Emmanuel
someday. I think he’s a good baseball player that could theoretically have been great.
I have seen him make some mistakes this year (particularly running) that I think might be because he is worried/distracted/frustrated. Last night when he hit that liner that ended up doubling up Ishikawa I felt bad for the kid.
He can, and did, hit some last year. I never saw Bocock do anything in spring or otherwise but look overmatched. Burriss actually looked comfortable at the plate last year, can still run like a deer and hit for a while, and his overall minors BA is .285. Bocock has batted over .220 in only one minor leauge stop. Stop comparing him to Bocock.
Please send him to CT or even SJ where he should be learning to hit passably.
But let’s also not forget that this team cannot afford banjo hitters in the 8th spot because there are few candidates to bat in the 2-5 slots. Unless Dallas McPherson can play SS, this team is going to struggle with whomever they put in the 8th spot.
And GIANTS BRASS: stop promoting players not named Lincecum from San Jose to SF (and even Tim pitched a few games in Fresno). Or admit that there is no player development being done outside Augusta and SJ and that Fresno and CT are just backup storage pools.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"the plan was to put our regulars out there as often as possible to get off to a fast start."- Bruce Botchy
by natteringnabob on Apr 29, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
The thing that gets me, is that it’s obvious that he’s not ready. It’s no surprise he’s not ready, and it’s not really even his fault that he’s in this situation, but the fact of the matter is he needs to be sent down. The question is, when do you do it? You don’t want to just send him down while his confidence is already crushed, but you don’t want to do it when he’s just starting to hit either.
I hate to say it, and I’d never wish an injury on anyone, but really a minor injury that puts him on the DL and allows the org. to either give him a long rehab assignment or quietly send him down may be the best thing.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Recall Frandsen and give Burriss the game or two he desperately needs to clear his head. Hopefully Frandsen hits .500 to force Bochy to sit Burriss and eventually send him down for more practice in a developmental league.
This makes sense
Therefore, it’s not going to happen.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
No it doesn't.
Frandsen isn’t going to hit .500, and having both Frandsen and Burriss on the roster means one of them spending most of his time on the bench while non-prospect Jake Wald gets the starts in Fresno.
Both Burriss and Frandsen should be playing every day, if not in Mays Field then in Chukchansi.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
I’ve still yet to see anyone explain how it’ll hurt Frandsen, who’s in his late 20s and was always likely to end up as a backup, to not play every day.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a giantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
I’m still hopeful that Frandsen can be an starting MLB player. I suspect that most of the folks who want him playing every day feel similarly.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
It's not just for his development, though
It’s for evaluation purposes, too.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
I’m hopeful for Frandsen because of this:
.321/.382/.453 as a full time minor leaguer.
That was put up as a 23 year old in A+/AA/AAA and as a 24 year old in AAA. I’m as skeptical as ever since he’s had a few middling years since then and also got injured, but still those are good numbers.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen should be with the big team.
I don’t know what the solution is, but I agree with the playing every day…
Hi, I am Johnny Disaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Apr 29, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I was implying Burriss playing every day in the minors. He’s probably not going to be demoted when his only big league competition is a .227 old/overweight guy.
I'd be more okay with that.
I see “sit Burriss and eventually send him down” and I think of 2-3 months of him playing gin rummy with Nate Schierholtz.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
Have him abandon switch hitting
send him down to learn to hit exclusively from the right side.
This may be an idea.
Although he’s only got a split of .626 vs .695 lefty vs righty.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen should be with the big team.
Having him in the majors at this point is questionable. Having him starting in the majors as a second baseman is just weird.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that pie > cake, that Bochy is endowed by his creator with certain undeniable traits, that among these are veteran man-love, a giantic skull, and the pursuit of the double switch.
Adopted Giant: Fred Lewis, who can still draw a walk.
He should be at SS
That’s about all I’ve got. He could be a league average SS with a little seasoning. As a second baseman he is a bit lacking. I’d have rather seen him and Frandsen both up and the three of them (including Rent) sharing the duties in the middle infield. I think Burriss would be totally fine as a backup SS/2b while he adjusts to the majors.
by positiveuphemism on Apr 29, 2009 2:07 PM PDT reply actions
You might get your wish...
…if Renteria’s groin injury doesn’t go away.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Apr 29, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel like the Org deserved this (in a Kharmic kind of way), after the way they treated Franny.
Yes, manny had a good spring, but Franny earned his shot.
The best thing to come out of this may be that Franny gets an extended shot at 2B.
"You ask for game winning hits, I give you Eugenio Velez"
by The Gene Hackman on Apr 29, 2009 2:09 PM PDT reply actions
It’s obvious that Burriss is pressing, both at the plate and on the base paths. He’s trying too hard to make stuff happen and failing miserably. If this team was scoring runs by the boatload, maybe his struggles could be overlooked, but this team has trouble hitting the ball out of the infield right now, which only puts more pressure on him. It’s an ugly feedback loop.
I still think Burriss could be a decent-to-good major leaguer some day, but only if he plays SS regularly all summer in AAA . It hurts to say, but sending him down to Fresno right now is the better of two bad options.
"Are we bad? No. But right now, we are." Boulderskull, 4.16.09
The way they’ve handled him is ridiculous and, honestly, he never should have been even in contention for the starting job this year. As much as I enjoyed them, his hot streaks last season were possibly the worst thing that could have happened for him.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I'm not ready to give up yet.
Give him a couple more weeks. If he still isn’t hitting, and Frandsen stays hot in Fresno, then okay, switch them.
It’s hard to play amateur psychologist with people you don’t actually know. Maybe Burriss would be able to draw motivation from getting sent down, or maybe it’d discourage him.
And actually, I think the Giants mismanaged three young shortstops last year, if you count Ivan Ochoa.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
Thank You
I realize most people have severe movement in the pants for Frandsen, but let Manny get to 100 AB’s this year before the knee-jerk freak out.
I’m not ready to give up yet either. His defense at second is superb (not just “good”) and that is more valuable right now than his lack of hitting in the 8-hole. I don’t think anybody, including Frandsen, can hold a candle to Manny at 2B defensively, so let’s give him another couple of weeks of AB’s before judgment. Control the rage.
by FireBrianSabean on Apr 29, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Have you seen Frandsen play 2B? He’s no slouch.
And on a team that can’t hit it’s way out of a paper bag, having some offense from 2B would be great…especially if that player can play adequate D.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Apr 29, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s no Manny though. And on this team, that’s a big deal. If the pitchers could only keep all balls in play to the right-side of the diamond, we’d be in great shape.
by FireBrianSabean on Apr 29, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I think Manny’s defense could use more seasoning as well. He is prone to making brain-fart errors.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Apr 29, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of defense, am I the only one that freaks the f*** out when a ball gets hit to left field?
by FireBrianSabean on Apr 29, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
The only one other than Fred, you mean?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
Looking At The Same Small Sample Size In 2009 Fangraph's UZR Loves Fred Lewis
and thinks he is the Giants Best Outfielder thus far.
Makes you wonder if these defense stats have achieved any real value or still have a long way to go before much attention should be paid to them. Just look at the error ratings for the Giants outfielders (runs saved or cost by actual errors vs expected errrors). How can it be justified that Fred Lewis’ 2 errors in 32 chances saved .2 runs just like Randy Winn’s Zero errors in 45 chances? How can it be justtified that Eugenio Velez’s 1 error in 5 chances cost the Giants Zero runs while Aaron Rowand’s Zero errors in 39 chances only saved .1 runs?
by giantsrainman on Apr 29, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
SMALL SAMPLE SIZE
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Seriously.
You should really wait until you have 2,000-3,000 innings of defensive data before you start making assumptions. BIP distribution is just too random for anything less to mean anything.
I Am Not Suggesting A Judgement On Fred Lewis
But I am suggesting there are obvious errors in Fangraph’s UZR. It just does not make any sense that Fred Lewis’ Error Rating would be as good as Randy Winn’s and Better the Aaron Rowand’s when Freddie has made 2 errors vs Aaron’s 1 and Randy’s Zero.
by giantsrainman on Apr 29, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
What Does Speed and Mobility Have To Do With Errors?
by giantsrainman on Apr 29, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions
If he’s making an error on a play that no other LF is getting to, then he’s not going to get killed for it.
I always figured his athleticism is saving him from his terrible routes and sudden moments of lead glove.
Yeah, when you think about it, he’s a CF (for the most part) playing LF. So he’s going to get to more balls than your average LF (guys like Dunn, etc.)
Fangraph's must have not been at the game last night.
Proud father of Dallas Mcpherson, the Babe Ruth of AAA.
I think range plays a role. Unless watching a bad fielder like manny next to Fred, it can be difficult to see the difference in range, which makes fans believe that a play is routine when really it a good fielder making a good play on the ball.
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Fangraph's UZR Seperates Error Rating Vs Range Rating And Also Has An Arm Rating For Outfielders
The specifics I discussed were in reference to Error Rating only.
by giantsrainman on Apr 29, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
ok, thank you. I learned something today.
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t if it’s a knee-jerk reaction when 1/2 the community wanted him to start in the minors to begin with. Relegating a guy whose never seen AA to minors isn’t giving up on him, but correcting his developmental track IMO.
Agreed on Burriss regarding the community. I meant knee-jerk towards the Giants since they made the decision to start the season with him. I would say that somewhere around May 15 would be when a decision needs to be made, and Manny deserves to show all he can until that point.
Throwing Frandsen into the discussion takes the argument off of Manny’s merits and onto a “who would you rather see” discussion.
by FireBrianSabean on Apr 29, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Grant you said it during spring training
that Burris, despite his good hitting in August, and good spring, wasn’t ready to be a regular in the majors. And by golly you were right. They should have just given the job to Franny and let Burris start every day in Fresno. Hopefully they aren’t too stupid to see that they can still make that happen.
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
After moaning about wanting to see prospects play
I am now pining for at least one of them (I’m not quite there with Ishikawa) to get replaced by somebody else (Frandsen is the first choice, but I’d even take Aurilia and even Uribe at this point).
This is not my fault. This is the Giants fault. After not giving any number of semi-prospects any real shot, they decide to give Burriss the starting gig and stick with him.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
The big difference between Burriss and Ishikawa is that TI — like Schierholtz — is out of options, and therefore the team has a vested interest in giving him all the playing time they can stomach before giving up on him. Sending them down means hoping they pass through waivers or losing them forever. With Burriss there was never any pressure like that. On the contrary, they should feel some urgency to find out if Frandsen can hack it (clearly they don’t think he can or he’d be up), while Burriss’ situation calls for much more patience than they’ve exhibited.
I think Sabean just has a weakness for players of Burriss’ type — defensive specialists who switch-hit and have some speed. Remember, he not only signed Neifi Perez, but said it was like signing 4 players — presumably, a lefty 2B who couldn’t hit, a righty 2b who couldn’t hit, a lefty SS who couldn’t hit, and a righty SS who couldn’t hit.
Haven't been to The Examined Life? No wonder your life feels so empty.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Apr 29, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah – this love affair with switch hitters really only works when the alleged switch hitter can actually hit from both sides of the plate.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
thank you
and hey thanks to everybody for the well-wishin
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
tell us about the depression, again, won’t you oldjacket?
"You ask for game winning hits, I give you Eugenio Velez"
by The Gene Hackman on Apr 29, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
oh and happy birthday, bro!
"You ask for game winning hits, I give you Eugenio Velez"
by The Gene Hackman on Apr 29, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I’LL TAKE WHAT I WANT, PLUM FAMILY LOVE
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
It is a tough situation, since many of us (me included) have been clamoring for the kids to come up and give it a go. With that being said, he’s not going to improve under Bochy at this time. Plain and simple. Drop him down for a while to let him find his stroke and figure out if he really should be a switch hitter. Let him build confidence in a lower pressure environment. Try out Frandsen or someone else in SF, and see if there’s another solution while Burriss is polished.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
Why "under Bochy"?
I ask because for all my complaints about Bochy favoring veterans, this is one case where he’s kept a steady hand with Burriss, giving him plenty of chances without looking over his shoulder for Uribe. I don’t have any problem with Bochy’s handling of Burriss.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
I’ll give Bochy credit for moving Burriss between the 2 and 8 holes, trying to find a good fit for him. But I also look at Burriss’ abysmal result from the left side – right or wrong, I attribute this to Bochy’s obsession with left/right matchups. I know 20 games is a super small sample size, but sheesh – if you’re gonna trot the kid out to 46 ABs on the left side with 4 hits and 12 SOs to show for it, at least take a look at the results. He’s not nearly as sucky from the right side (in fact, in that even smaller sample size, he’s more respectable). But I can’t see Bochy taking the time to see if Burriss can hit righties from the right side. Maybe I’m naive, but I’d like to see him get a chance to find a way to produce offensively. I don’t see Bochy doing much more than flipping him around in the lineup.
Who knows – maybe I’m just bitter after last night’s colossal fail and not thinking straight due to low caffeine levels.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
This situation makes me sad. I like Burriss but never had any confidence that he’d be major-league ready this year. Sigh.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
This sums up how I feel on this issue
Baseball is a lot like life. The line drives are caught, the squibbles go for base hits. It's an unfair game. -Rod Kanehl. Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis
what I don't get
is that if you look at his numbers, there’s no way he’s a ML ready bat.
But if you look at him from a scouting perspective…. I uh… really. It’s actually sort of shocking that the Giants let the spring performance actually override all sense and practicality.
As for his development as a hitter… pish and tosh. There’s zero reason to ever think he will every be more than a defensive sub, and his defense doesn’t appear to even be otherworldly. He’s a stop gap, and a leaky one at that. I mean, why sign Renteria if Burriss is going to play everyday anyway?
None sense. None. The only explanation that is borderline rational is that Fransden was caught with a live boy or dead girl.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I agree with just about everyone here. Burriss is one of those guys on the team that I really enjoy rooting for, but he hasn’t given me any reason to cheer this season. He should be able to handle being sent down to AAA, and if he can’t, then he probably won’t ever be able to handle MLB anyway. Send him down, and call up Frandsen. Have Burriss play SS in Fresno. He’ll need plus defense at SS to ever be a valuable player in MLB, and I still think he has a legitimate shot at achieving this.
Osiris, lord of the dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
I always liked this graph (spam) from last season:
The lines are league average for OBP and ISO. When you’re hitting for as much power as the 60-year-old Omar Vizquel, you might eventually have trouble with hitting. It’s still early in the season, but for a contact-styled player like Burriss needs to be to succeed, his K% of 21 is scary.
Looking at that chart reminds me...
Durham was OK last year. Led the team in OPS while he was here. It’s understandable that as a 2B only, he couldn’t get a job this year, but when a guy like Aurilia (whose “versatility” is pretty much limited to 1B/3B now) plays on while guys like Durham and Frank Thomas sit at home, it makes you wonder. (Not that I would suggest that Durham is an answer for the Burriss/2B dilemma.)
Learn to bunt
This kid has gold glove defense, game changing speed and should learn to bunt. Getting a couple of bunt singles should settled the kid down and also allow the pitcher to sacrifice him over for the top of the order to drive him in.
He’s been trying to bunt, he’s just unsuccessful.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen should be with the big team.
If one cannot hit and one cannot bunt then maybe he needs to try harder or give Joe Nathan a call about career advice.
You think he should toe the rubber in the city?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
it’s not surprising that he may be having problems with fundamentals when he was rushed to the majors in the first place
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Was her rushed – Yes. But he also did well in his 250 PAs last season and earned his way on the club this season. If he struggling – Absolutely. He defintely could use a confidence boost. Is that having Bochy having him face some LHP – maybe.
Believe the kid can help himself bu utilizing his amazing speed and bunt. It will draw the infield in and possibly open up a hole so he can get some hits. And maybe score some runs.
my point is just that maybe the reason he is having problems bunting his way on may be related to his (lack of) development
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd say send him down
Give Frandsen a couple months, and if he doesnt produce, Then we’re really in trouble.
Kinda proud adoptive parent of the set-up man.
This is Howry do it!
fixed
Give Frandsen a couple months, and if he doesnt produce, Then we’re really in trouble.
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
utterly ridiculous that he was ever promoted to MLB last year
When Vizquel got hurt last year the Giants should have signed somebody like Alex Cintron to play SS (yes, everybody would have complained in short-sighted fashion like they did with Castillo) and let Burriss and Bocock continue their normal development. I think it’s pretty likely that Burriss never would have developed into a MLB hitter even with a reasonable development track so I’ve never lost a whole lot of sleep over this whole thing but it is still pretty galling seeing the Giants fuck this up.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Apr 29, 2009 3:09 PM PDT reply actions
I didn’t think he was ready, and thought his only future lies at SS.
I still think those things, and a little more so now. I’d still give him another two weeks or so, but I don’t think he’s going to really turn it around.
Frandsen is not going to be a star, but I think he can hit .275, deliver 10-12 jacks and not embarrass himself on defense. Let Burris try to take his job away again next year, if a really nice FA doesn’t fall into our lap.
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
I would totally take .275, 10 jacks and not embarrassing D… and apparently Happy Birthday wishes are in order.
Hi, I am Johnny Disaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Apr 29, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
The mistake was ever saying it was an open competition at 2nd base. If they had given Frandsen the clear path to the starting gig, and said from the get-go that they would like Burriss to go to AAA and continue developing as a SS (where his real value lies), they could have avoided this. Frandsen didn’t embarass himself in ST and teams send down prospects who have good springs all the time. They are going to have to make a move soon, because Burriss is in danger of slipping below .100….
by AndOnTheDrums... on Apr 29, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions
Kevin Frandsen and I told you so
Frandsen should have been the opening day 2B, no doubt about it.
I said it then, I’m saying it now.
What’s amazing is that the Giants are winning as many games as they are with 2 pitchers batting.
You love to say that, don't you?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
2 pitchers?
When did the NL get a DH? Or are you forgetting 1B?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
It’s an exaggeration (though not a big one) to say that TI hits like a pitcher. Burriss has really put up pitcher numbers so far. Except for the five steals.
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
I would mind having two pitchers in the lineup if they were Carlos Zambrano and Gallardo
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
*wouldn’t mind
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder if their respective teams ever used them as DH’s or would use them. Add Micah Owings to that list.
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
and Livan
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
and gallardo scored the only run for the brewers today…LOL
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Send him down
I think his K-rate might say something about his confidence – it is double (10% vs. 21%) last years rate. And when he is hitting the ball, he is getting no results (.203 BABIP). It is possible he is pressing, looking for the perfect pitch, and swinging harder at it because he is getting unlucky.
I am not saying that Burris will be a star, only that he is probably better than he is currently showing, and he needs to go down to AAA and get his confidence back.
In addition, I have more confidence that Frandsen can be a very solid major-league player, and I think he was short-changed.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Apr 29, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions
And aside from the horrible K rate, I’m also really tired of his peewee league soft infield grounders. Even when he makes contact, it’s usually pathetic.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
reminds me of what kruk and Kuip said about Atlee Hammaker, “When he hit the ball, it didn’t really make a sound.”
"
Randy Winn is going to catch that. And he'll do it real classy-like too.
Burriss isn’t playing great baseball, and I think he knows it. I can’t imagine he’d take a demotion like the end of the world. God bless him, I hope he gets his stuff straightened out, but he’s ready for a trip to Fresno.
Bring up Frandsen, give him his fair shakes. I suspect it’s going to work out better, at least in the short term.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
File under:
Once bitten, twice bitten.
"The dreams ain't broken down here now, they're walking with a limp" --TW
fool me once
shame on you
fool me 8 or more times
shame on me
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Can’t get fooled again…
Hi, I am Johnny Disaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Apr 29, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Won’t get fooled again…?
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen should be with the big team.
Its time, I think even Burriss knows it, the he goes down to Fresno and plays every day there. Kid’s got plenty of time to blossom down there, and for the big Giants, yeah it may be a rebuilding year, but they have an outside chance of competing this year and it will help if these early months they take as many series as they can.
Back in the saddle again
Manny being Manny tonight. Bochy has wound him up and has him batting 8th in the batting order tonight. Schierholtz also starting in RF.
BEAT LA
Another reason why I really hate the Giants FO
Why did they have to let Linden, Lewis, Schierholtz, Frandsen, etc make mulitple runs through AAA while continually signing FA outfielders and utility men, the easiest positions to fill?
But then they stick scrubs like Bocock and Castillo into starting roles, skip up Rohlinger to the bigs a year after a mediocre Augusta run, and now this Burriss mess.
I believe
it has to do with how the org values batting average and perceived defensive value. Same reason why we can’t get anyone to hit and play 1B. Sabes has a hard-on for 1B defense that started with JT Snow. Who knows, maybe Keith Hernandez spit on him…
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Another relationship between these facts.
Having banjo hitters at 1B makes the 8 spot in the lineup a lot more important than it should be (sort of like having no cleanup hitter).
No one cared what Mario Mendoza batted (or Frank Taveras, probably the better comparison with speed and glove) because that 8 spot followed one or all of Willie Stargell, Dave Parker, Richie Zisk, Al Oliver, Manny Sanguillen, etc.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"the plan was to put our regulars out there as often as possible to get off to a fast start."- Bruce Botchy
by natteringnabob on Apr 29, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, let’s see. On this team you have exactly zero power hitters from the four power positions (1b, 3b, LF, RF). Yes, I think this could have an effect on our perception of Manny’s offensive struggles.
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I think the Giants need to get a sports psychologist on the payroll. The way they have treated young players (Burriss, Bocock, Bowker, Schierholtz, innumerable pitchers and so on) leaves a hell of a lot to be desired.
Maybe the problem is they’ve based the team around vets for so long they have no idea how to deal with younger psyches. It’s like putting a college physics professor in charge of a preschool.
/not that I’m comparing the GYENTZ BRASSS to a college physics professor
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Apr 29, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh why thank you!
Formerly Revolution1 || Status: Worried that Giants are going to sell my wall of Ks to Johnsonville Sausages || Barry Zito: Throws Canyons Mildly Half-OK
Oh you're not.
Oh.
Formerly Revolution1 || Status: Worried that Giants are going to sell my wall of Ks to Johnsonville Sausages || Barry Zito: Throws Canyons Mildly Half-OK
don’t forget the treatment Sanchez, Correia and Hennessey got as young pitchers
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Dodgers lineup
Juan Pierre hitting 9th.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 29, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions
They just wanted to move Stults up in the lineup. He’s due.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
Here Is A Positve Thoght
Think Dustin Pedroia’s rookie year. He absolutely sucked just like Manny into May and ended up Rookie of the Year. Not saying Burriss has any shot to be another Pedroia (he doesn’t) just saying that if a player as good as Dustin can have such a bad opening to a season then we should have more patience with Burriss doing so as well.
That is true, and despite it all, this is still a hilariously small sample size to be drawing conclusions off of. And there are still some sort of positive things to take from Manny’s performance (well… his LD% is higher than last year and his BB% is about the same)
THAT SAID, Pedroia’s minor league record was nearly spotless. This is not the case for Manny (who barely even has a minor league record…)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
There is a difference
Between a guy like Pedroia who has the expectation of doing well but doesn’t for a while. That’s a cold streak. A guy like Manny who has never hit well and is just continuing to do that.
Plus, Manny just LOOKS bad out there. You don’t need a large sample to tell a guy is over matched.
by FairweatherFan on Apr 29, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions
there's another difference
300 more minor league at bats than Burriss
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"the plan was to put our regulars out there as often as possible to get off to a fast start."- Bruce Botchy
by natteringnabob on Apr 29, 2009 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions
So maybe
if everything breaks right, Manny can finish with a line similar to how Frandsen finished 07.
Of course, there’s a practicality problem when reading that, but logic is for losers, not gamers.
Hard-on
For Frandsen..
Can somebody please explain to me what this love-affair is all about?
by FireBrianSabean on Apr 29, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Desert Fox was damning Burriss with faint praise, not say Fransden was a boner inspiring prospect.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
I didn’t mean that towards DesertFox. And I’m not one to throw stones (I was a huge believer in John Roper and David McCarty), I just don’t understand the passion for Frandsen. His biggest attribute is his hard-nosed nature (see: Rowand, Aaron), so I understand Sabean signing him to a 5-year, $190 million contract, but I don’t believe he would be a significant upgrade over Burriss, ESPECIALLY on defense where I actually have more trust in Manny than just about any other fielder (except Winn).
by FireBrianSabean on Apr 29, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Kevin Frandsen, minor leagues, career: .327/.391/.458 in 1102 PA
Manny Burriss, minor leagues, career: .285/.347/.337 in 922 PA
there you go.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
That is succinct.
Hi, I am Johnny Disaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Apr 29, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
but, but , but…see…SPEED AND DEFENSE!
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Frandsenberry Kool Aid
10 bottles on their way to you now!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"the plan was to put our regulars out there as often as possible to get off to a fast start."- Bruce Botchy
by natteringnabob on Apr 29, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
This is theme of the year that's pissed me off most
Even more so than the fact that Bochy is still the manager here
And the bullpen blowing it mucho.
And even Eugenio on the roster (though for I think he’s fine for emergency situations like ahora).
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
Lineup Tonight (per baggs)
Manny remain, Schierholtz gets the start.
LF Lewis
SS Renteria
3B Sandoval
C Molina
CF Rowand
1B Aurilia
RF Schierholtz
2B Burriss
P Lincecum
9-9 - RIP, Brian Wilson's Twitter. :(
Adopted Giant: Daryl "Fat But Awesome" Maday - 1 ER in 13 2/3 innings so far. Pride of Norwich.
apparently, it’s because he hit a foul ball off his knee. Hope it’s not too serious.
9-10 - Howry Fail.
Adopted Giant: Daryl "Fat But Awesome" Maday - 1 ER in 13 2/3 innings so far. Pride of Norwich.
however, renteria is back in the lineup after his groin/quad injury. can’t remember which he hurt.
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Groin
Joe Martinez: My fingers are crossed and my palms are together for you.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I like this outside of Aurilia being in the lineup
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 29, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
The Giants tied their hands when they declared it open competition. Even when franny and manny where hitting similarly in spring bochy said defense would be the deciding factor, i almost think they wanted manny to win the job.
by shaolinironlion on Apr 29, 2009 6:57 PM PDT reply actions
Let Burriss finish the year.
In 2007, the Red Sox had a 2nd baseman who was hitting .189 through April. They let him play and he ended up winning Rookie of the Year for the Champs and won AL MVP the following year. I’m not saying Burriss will end up like Dustin Pedroia but since the Giants aren’t going to win anything this year let him learn and develop.
No x1000.
The Giants might not have much of a chance to win anything this year, but they do have SOME chance, better than they’ve had the last several years. Burriss is not going to come near Pedroia’s #s ever. Frandsen is a much better hitter, and not that much worse on D. He deserves his shot, and the giants need to see if he can handle a ML job. Let Burriss go to AAA and develop there.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
That great hitter to take us to the playoffs
Frandsen is our secret weapon. When we need a hitter to take us over the hump in July and August, and Neukom says we have no money to go after a free agent, and they still wont sign Bonds for 2 months, Frandsen will be the great, giants hope. Nevertheless, I like Burriss’s approach, and he has some tough nosed AB’s often forcing the pitcher to throw buku pitches before he weakly grounds out to second. I do think the hope of him being a switch hitter is still experimental, and unless he can slap singles from the left side with regularity ala Manny Mota, or a morning dulcolax, he will eventually need to go all righty. The giants seem to believe that speed is muy importante. ie; the roster has velez, burriss, lewis, schierholtz, torres, all of whom can run. ALL I AM SAYING IS GIVE SCHIERHOLTZ A CHANCE. The additions of Richie, and Uribe, seems to have altered the course of Frandsen. One of them gets DL’d and maybe, just maybe Frandsen gets a chance. I see some A ballers right now as our future at second and ss.
A few years ago.
The marlins started a bunch of not yet ready minor leaguers with talent, and they started off like crapola, but as April turned into May, and the trees bloomed, so did the players, in the majors, just as nicely as the would have in the minors. Seems to be a critical time for development, for picking up the game at major league speed. If one waits too long, that critical time may pass, ie; Linden, Ortmeier, Niekro.
Shoving bad players down your throat.
Do any of you get the feeling that Sabean’s eagerness to keep Burriss and Velez around as a way of affecting perception? One of those “who says we don’t develop young players?” kind of thing. They can’t possibly look at Velez and Burriss and say “these two can help us now”, but Travis Denker and Kevin Frandsen can’t?
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