Is Frandsen the new Dallimore?

by chacabuco on Apr 21, 2009 1:34 PM PDT Comment 36 comments

Let's just say the Giants infield is less than settled. We have another Sabean Suckerpunch Signing playing short, we have a catcher/first baseman playing third, a shortstop playing second and a Fresno Grizzly playing first.

Enter a guy who, unlike most of the rookies on the Giants roster, has proven he can play at every level. He hit .296 in 2004 at low level A ball. Played at all three levels in 2005 while absolutely tearing it up and hitting a combined .335. Got hit in the jaw, bounced back to hit .304 in Fresno in 2006, earning a call up to the big squad in the fall.

Hit FOUR-OH-THREE (.403) for the Grizz in 2007 before being called up and having respectable numbers in the bigs for a rook. Then he tears an Achilles and suddenly the guy ceases to be a prospect.

You think Burriss is a better option at 2B because he tore it up in the spring? Ok, I can understand the logic there (although I disagree with it). So, surely you would send Frandsen to Fresno to play every day just in case Burriss continues to hit below the Mendoza line, so we won't have to resort to a has been with no future (aka Jose Castillo 2009) for the rest of the year.

Wait! You say Frandsen isn't playing every day in Fresno at 2B? They must have some killer prospect playing 2B, then. Uh, no (Matt Downs .250/.311/.350). Ok, then surely they will play him every day at 3B, where the Giants have no current viable option (Sandoval, God bless him, is not a major league 3B -- I'd love to see him at 1st, though).

Wrong again! He's not playing every day at all and when he does play, more often than not, they have him playing, uh, shortstop. So you're taking a guy one year removed from an Achilles injury and sending him down to AAA to platoon at a position that requires even more mobility than his natural position or the position he could conceivably change to (3B) to help the big league club.

AAAAaaaarrrggghh!! They're doing it to me AGAIN!!!

Is it because the collective IQ of the Giants brain trust is a negative number? I'm sure they think they've got 2B locked up for the year with Burris and friggin' JoseCastillo2009. Or have they actually written Frandsen into the "too old" category. Lord knows Sabean will only take on players over 25 if they are actually closer to 35, many years past their prime and show barely a pulse on the diamond.

Please Fire Sabean NOW. Or he will screw up the San Jose Giants, too, if you let him. The man is dangerous.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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If Burriss continues to straddle the mendoza line for the next month, they would have to give Frandsen a shot.

Right?

Damn.

by AndOnTheDrums... on Apr 21, 2009 1:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

While I agree with the overall sentiment, I’m not sure I’d agree that shortstop requires more mobility than second base. A shortstop definitely needs more arm, but I’d say that a second baseman is often required to cover more ground, particularly when the player he shares his side of the infield with will often need to over first, being both close to the line and closer to the batter, limiting his own range.

That said, I’d feel better about Frandsen’s chances of getting a legitimate chance if he hadn’t start the season hitting .216/.341/.297 (but hey, at least he’s walking more).

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by BruteSentiment on Apr 21, 2009 2:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

True, but

maybe he’d have better numbers if he weren’t trying to make a comeback while learning a new position…

by chacabuco on Apr 21, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Albeit second base is his primary position, Frandsen has played shortstop his entire career. Nothing new there.

by StickRat on Apr 21, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, he’s played significantly more innings at SS than at third.

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by EliminateMe on Apr 21, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In the pros, yes...

…if you include college, it’d be closer, though I don’t have the official WCC stats to say for sure.

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by BruteSentiment on Apr 21, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't necesserily require more mobility

But I think you can hide a less rangy player at 2B because the shorter throw allows him to play a little deeper. It exposes a little spot to the left rear of a the pitchers mound for bunt singles , but that’s always been a difficult spot to to place the ball and number of players who can execute that play (or would be willing to settle for it in most situations) have dwindled

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Apr 21, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Three reasons

You make a good point here, Brute, but I think there are four reasons why a second baseman doesn’t need as much range as a shortstop. (Remember, the only mildly mobile Bill Mazeroski is considered by many to be the best defensive second baseman of all time and also made the Hall of Fame primarily on the strength of his glove.)

First, more balls are hit to the shortstop than the second baseman, with range obviously growing in importance with frequency.

Second, because more balls are hit to the left side of the infield, the double play pivot — a skill that only modestly requires range — is a larger part of the requisite job skills for a second baseman than a shortstop.

Third, because of the longer throw, it is more important that the shortstop be able to get in front of the ball to set himself for his longer throw.

Fourth — an extension of #3 — if a player has to dive for a grounder at shortstop, his chances of throwing the batter/runner out aren’t good. The second baseman much more often has time to dive for the ball and still throw the runner out.

If you think about it, historically shortstops have had more range as a group than have second basemen. There must be a reason for that. Possibly even four.

by sharksrog on Apr 21, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My browser window cut off the subject after he first four letters of Dallimore’s name, so I thought you were saying he was the new Dallas McPherson.

Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
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by jcb9 on Apr 21, 2009 2:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Nobody talks about my son that way!

Nobody!!!

Proud father of Dallas Mcpherson, the Babe Ruth of AAA.

by The Thrill on Apr 21, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You said it yourself … Frandsen is a year removed from an Achilles injury. You think a guy that hasn’t played a full season in the majors, and missed an entire season of playing all together, is just going to magically be ready to play in the big leagues?

For all us armchair quarterbacks at home, let me put it this way. Say you don’t turn on your TV for a year. After an entire year, you wouldn’t know what channels are what, what is going on on any shows, why Conan O’Brien morphed into Jimmy Fallon. You just wouldn’t be able to hit the ground running. That’s pretty much where Frandsen is at in a baseball capacity. Give the kid a break.

About the only thing Frandsen and Brian Dallimore have in common is they both missed close to a year at age 26. Otherwise, night and day. Frandsen fast-tracked to AAA after less than a year in A and AA combined. Dallimore spent three years in A-ball.

by StickRat on Apr 21, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Frandsen played in the instructional leage last September, the Arizona fall league, and in Spring training.

He’s had plenty of time to shake off the cobwebs.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Apr 21, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, he’s a career .325 hitter currently batting like .200 in AAA. I’d say he isn’t quite back to full yeah strength.

by StickRat on Apr 21, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s not like he went out there for only a handful of games during the Spring, though. He actually did really well during Spring Training. Is the competition at the start of the season in AAA that much tougher than the competition in Spring Training?

I'm thinking but nothing's happening.

by JRPhillips on Apr 21, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Generally speaking, yes. AAA is competitive baseball. The Cactus League is not.

by StickRat on Apr 21, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

SSS ALERT

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by EliminateMe on Apr 21, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But th SSS applies to Burriss as well.

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by Goofus on Apr 21, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well yeah.

I was just referring to the conclusion that because Frandsen’s in a slump he must not be back to full strength.

The jury is still out on whether the player who will have the more successful MLB career is a) Burriss, b) Frandsen, or c) none of the above.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.

by EliminateMe on Apr 21, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are plenty of players stinking up Fresno in the early going who didn't miss 2008.

McClain, Guzman, Holm is 0-18. Yabu has an ERA over 9.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Apr 21, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you leave my boy out of this!

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Apr 21, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Frandsen went 3-5 today (Tues) raising his average to .265

Not that .265 is great, but with it, he’s 10 for his last 31, so he’s on an upswing over the last few games.

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by BruteSentiment on Apr 21, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have no problem with Frandsen playing SS

He has a better shot at helping the club playing short than third. His mobility doesn’t seem to be a problem, at least from the little I’ve seen and read.

As for not playing every day, he has about as many PAs as anyone on the team, and has started 10 of 12 games, 8 at SS and two at 2B. He’s as much an everyday player as anyone else.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.

by EliminateMe on Apr 21, 2009 3:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He started 8 of 12

Pinch hit in 2 others.

by chacabuco on Apr 21, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I count 10 starts...

…and actually 9 at SS, including the game on the 17th where he moved to second on a double-switch. He sat on the 13th, started at 2B on the 19th, and had only a PH appearance on the 21st. The other 9 games he started at SS.

One of his starts looks like a PH appearance (0 for 1) until you notice the 2 BBs.

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by EliminateMe on Apr 21, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Personally i would definately had him on the roster to start the year so i was dissapointed with that. But given that he was sent down i’ve no problem with him playing SS. Whilst i don’t think he’s likely to be a long term SS the experience will do him good and the versatility will help him as he tries to make the roster in future. Also playing SS & 2B aren’t all that different & so him playing SS at the moment isn’t going to affect his future prospects at 2B. It’s not like they’re playing him at 1B or the OF!

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by GiantFan on Apr 22, 2009 4:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

all aboard!

Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Apr 22, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Downs

If we are judging by spring training results, it’s pretty obvious that management is high on Matt Downs. Whether that means that they’re higher on Downs than they are on Franny, I don’t know. But it wouldn’t surprise me if they feel that Downs has supplanted Franny.

by Fresburg on Apr 21, 2009 4:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hard to say whether they feel that way...

…since they’ve had nearly identical amounts of playing time so far.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.

by EliminateMe on Apr 21, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Immediate versus (Channel 75, 723 in HD) longer term

I think if the Giants need to call up a second baseman this season to replace Manny Burriss, it would be the more experienced Frandsen. That isn’t to say that down the line the younger Downs might not leap-frog Kevin.

by sharksrog on Apr 21, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t understand all of the vitriol here. The basic argument is which crappy second baseman should be starting. Burriss has the higher ceiling defensively, is younger and has speed. I think that’s the reasoning with Burriss. You don’t drop a player after 10 games. After 25 maybe, or 40 definitely. But I can assure everyone adding Kevin Frandsen to this team would not mean a different result.

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by Smotheredinhugs on Apr 21, 2009 7:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The official McCoven groupthink position is that Frandsen should get a shot at starting at second in the majors while Burriss should be honing his craft at shortstop in AAA.

by Evan on Apr 21, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't agree

I must be thinking outside the box.

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by EliminateMe on Apr 21, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is a slim majority consensus. Definitely not any were near enough of a consensus to stop a filibuster. I freely admit I am in the slim majority on this.

I will also confess I am pleased that The Big Head is still feeding Burriss lots of playing time despite that it appears the only way he might get off the Innerstate any time soon is to by getting in the "O" column of the Bingo Card.

Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Apr 22, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Call rxmeister

you need a new prescription for Frandsenberry Kool-Aid

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by natteringnabob on Apr 21, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wantz morez plz!!

Where is my beer & chili dog?

by daveinexile on Apr 22, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think its inevitable that Burris will need a stint in the minors, and Frandsen will get hot in AAA a deserve a call-up. I have no problem with the team playing musical second basemen with the two this year, as long as they are both getting regular at-bats. I don’t know about the shortstop thing… but it probably would have been last year had Franny had more regular playing time there and been able to handle a month instead of the Bocock/Burris thing.

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by jasomack on Apr 23, 2009 12:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs