Changing things up...
by coicoy on Apr 16, 2009 10:34 PM PDT
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PrintHere are things I think the Giants should do
- Send Pablo Sandoval to Triple-A to work on his abilities in the field and at the plate. In his place, they can bring up Scott McClain for a few weeks. Eventually, they can bring up Dallas McPherson for competition.
- Bring up Steve Holm
- Schedule Jonathan Sanchez's starts so that he can face #4 or #5 pitchers, instead of Ace pitchers. That way the Giants can score some runs to support him and calm him down.
- Play Andres Torres or send him down
- Give Barry Zito more time to warm up on the mound. Have him throw enough pitches until he is comfortable with his pitches before the game begins.
- Trade Aaron Rowand to the Yankees for Xavier Nady and change
- Try out this line-up
- Fred Lewis
- Randy Winn
- Aaron Rowand
- Bengie Molina
- Travis Ishikawa
- Edgar Renteria
- Pablo Sandoval
- Pitcher
- Emmanuel Burriss
Call me crazy, but anything might be better than what they have going on right now.
Take the pressure off the pitchers. They won't win games for us. Don't expect it of them. It doesn't help them relax.
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Bengie should only bat 4th for a little league team. He should bat seventh because of his speed. No matter how well he hits he hurts the team on the bases as much as he can help at the plate.
by positiveuphemism on Apr 16, 2009 10:42 PM PDT reply actions
their problem is OBP
if they were advancing runners at all more regularly, that would hold more weight. But right now they just need more base runners. With Steve Holm they could pinch run for Molina late in the game. The thread to walk him would be diminished. I could see moving Ishikawa up in the lineup, though.
The scary thing is
I can’t call you crazy. None of this seems particularly insane. Some of it seems downright sensible.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
the lineup
was the possibly crazy part, but for some reason it looks more balanced to me that way
I wouldn’t bat the pitcher ahead of Burriss, except when Cain starts.
"Are we bad? No. But right now, we are." Boulderskull, 4.16.09
With it being nearly impossible to walk Sandoval and Burriss being functionally a second leadoff hitter after the first inning, batting the pitcher 8th isn’t too crazy – although I’ve been called crazy for suggesting it.
Hi, I am Johnny Disaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Apr 17, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
But...
You sent Sandoval down and Rowand to the Yankees, how are they still starting?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen should be with the big team.
I am not too sure how you could schedule Dirty’s starts so he matches up against other 4 and 5 starters without screwing up the rest of the staffs schedules. Pitchers are creatures of habit and change usually does not bode well with them. Plus, I don’t think the Giants will be scoring many runs against any pitcher regardless what # they are in the opposing teams rotation. I do agree with the Torres comment.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Wronghanded Affeldt doing it right
by Giant among Angels on Apr 16, 2009 11:06 PM PDT reply actions
Yeah, look how we fared against a #6 last night.
by paboperfecto on Apr 17, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
these are suggestions
or options, if you will, so I’m leaving it open in case sandoval and rowand are still around
I like some of your suggestions, however, for roster moves I prefer sending down Burriss and Velez for Holm and Frandsen. Start Frandsen and bat him 8th. and for God sake, STOP SITTING ISHIKAWA AGAINST EVER SINGLE LEFTY
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 16, 2009 11:13 PM PDT reply actions
EVER=*EVERY
sorry bout the caps, but the Ishi thing gets on my nerves especially
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 16, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I completely agree re Ishi-ishikawa-wa-wa
How in the hell is he going to get any better against lefties if he never gets to face them? THIS would be the year to give him the chances to do it, as we don’t expect to contend in the postseason, but next year (or 2011?) we really should start making noise. Moreover — SPOILER ALERT — Aurilia isn’t exactly crushing lefties, either. I know, I know: I’m just as shocked as you are that Aurilia2009 isn’t raking.
Forsan et heac olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Apr 17, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Why is everyone so obsessed with the fact that Ishikawa gets the day off against lefties? This is the perfect way to break in a young hitter, especially a marginal one like Ishi. Why not let him consolidate one skill and then take on more playing time, rather than learning to do everything at once? Especially since he has gotten off to a slow start without having to deal with lefties?
I think it starts giving players a complex. And once that pattern of 'not playing vs. lefties' sets in, it gets harder to shake later, not easier.
I see your point, but would be more inclined to share it if there were that many skills in baseball. He’s ok on defense— nobody is forgetting JT Snow, but nobody is calling for the return of Damon Minor, either, so he’s ok there. That just leaves batting. I think the greater harm is in consistently sending him the message that he can’t hit lefties and sending out an oldster who isn’t a catalyst for a winning team.
Forsan et heac olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Apr 17, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
The “complex” thing seems like a matter of good people management. Bochy & Lansford need to make it clear to Ishi that it’s not a punishment that he’s not starting against lefties —rather, they want all his attention focused on dealing with rhp’s, and lefties will come next year. This scheme seems to have worked okay with Fred Lewis.
Any evidence for the position that it gets harder to shake later? I wonder whether any statnerds have studied the question — i.e., divide all young left-handed hitters into two groups, those who got regular playing time vs left-handed pitchers early in their career and those who didn’t. Which group did better at hitting lefties later in their careers?
As a theory this approach works best on a team that is getting league average (or better) production form a position. It would be an intresting study though I am not sure how you account for confirmation baisis resaulting from mangers alotting of playing time.
Something the Giants have not had from first in a long time. It is also some the Giants’ are lacking from several positions around the diamond. By taking such a slow approach then the team is chewing up controlled service time on multiple players are once. That is bad because you still have questions as the player raises in cost and that in turn reduces the amount teams that could be interested in trading for him (you never know when a part you need more might be available for something you have and don’t need as badly).
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 17, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I also think that is he is going to flame out I would rather the team know it be June. It’s not like there is a large talent drop off between him and Richie so let’s see what we got. If the hand goes bust at least we know if the team needs to make moves accordingly while there is still plenty of team to reduce questions for the 2010 season.
If he does well the Giants’ might be able to free up a 25 man spot and only look at obvious upgrades for first base production instead of praying for league average production from desperate moves.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 17, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
but
Isnt Nady out for the season? and then a free agent? I dont get this move
Why does Sabean always look constipated?
you are correct on Nady. If rowand was traded, it would likely be for a middle of the road minor league prospect, especially if the Yanks were picking up a significant part of the deal. Essentially, if this ever happened, the giants would be trading to allow Schierholtz to start.
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 16, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
ahh, I didn’t realize he was out for the entire season and forgot he was a FA after this year. Scratch that.
maybe the Giants could buy low on someone like Melky Cabrera? Maybe he’s nothing but turns out to be better than expected…
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. This is one of the only ways a 5' 10" father can have a 6' 10" son.
by Speedforthewin on Apr 16, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's start at the top
Send Pablo Sandoval to Triple-A to work on his abilities in the field and at the plate. In his place, they can bring up Scott McClain for a few weeks. Eventually, they can bring up Dallas McPherson for competition.
The first part is fine, but it’s probably overreaction this early. The second part should be replaced with Jesus Guzman.
Schedule Jonathan Sanchez’s starts so that he can face #4 or #5 pitchers, instead of Ace pitchers. That way the Giants can score some runs to support him and calm him down.
It doesn’t work like that.
Play Andres Torres or send him down
Play Schierholtz when the starters need a day off. Leave Torres on the bench as a defensive sub which is what he should be.
Give Barry Zito more time to warm up on the mound. Have him throw enough pitches until he is comfortable with his pitches before the game begins.
If he doesn’t know how to get ready to start a game at this point, he shouldn’t be in the majors. Interestingly, he shouldn’t be in the majors, but it has nothing to do with warm up time.
Trade Aaron Rowand to the Yankees for Xavier Nady and change
Nady is only under contract for this year and needs Tommy John surgery. For the second time in his career.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
The second part should be replaced with Jesus Guzman.
The second part should be replaced with ANYONE WHO’S NOT SCOTT FREAKING MCCLAIN!!! The upside of Scott McClain is basically Rich Aurilia, and we already have one of those.
Also I agree it’s too early to send Pablo down.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
McClain has a lot more power and less glove, but other than that, there’s no reason to give him or Aurilia a preference over younger players, like Guzman or Rohlinger or even Downs.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 17, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
McClain does not have more power.
McClain has hit 118 homers in 1900 minor league ABs. Aurilia has 184 HRs in 1596 major league ABs. McClain’s career SLG is .524 which translates to an MLE of .417. Aurilia’s major league career SLG is .436.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
I remember reading an article about a year (?) ago that said zito threw more warmup pitches than pretty much anybody in baseball. They were wondering if that was a problem, along with his competitive pitching form an early age, meant that he threw so many pitches that he was breaking down at an early age. So, I don’t think we should worry that he needs more time to warmup.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
THIS
And play my effing boy Boulderskull!
Proud papa of Nathan John Schierholtz. Choo Choo...the train is a comin' baby, get off them tracks!!
by PacBellBoozer on Apr 17, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Please
Tell Sandoval to bring Burriss and Velez with him.
I know Frandsen was sent down to “work on being a utility man” (whatever the hell that means),
but he must be pissed every time he sees Velez in a Giants uniform.
I know I am.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
butheeveryone who doesn’t cut themselves while kicking puppies must be pissed every timehethey seesVelez in a Giants uniform.
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...
right now, burriss looks a lot worse than velez.
so why don’t you try raggin on him for a change…
/cuts self
/kicks dodger puppy
"You ask for game winning hits, I give you Eugenio Velez"
by The Gene Hackman on Apr 17, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Velez does have the rockin' Lincoln beard.
But Burriss is a decent looking guy, I wouldn’t say he looks worse. More importantly, he doesn’t hit or field worse either.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
Sandoval looked good today
Scheduling Jonathan Sanchez like that is near impossible, as mentioned.
Schierholtz is a bigger pressing concern to me than Andres Torres, who will probably never be good as far as I can see, while Nate might actually be a starter someday.
Trade Aaron Rowand for anyone.
I don’’t see why Sandoval should be batting so low. 33 ABs say pretty much nothing—with 3 more hits randomly he could be hitting over .300. Even one more and I don’t think we’d be worrying about him as he’d be hitting over .240..
I’m glad this wasn’t a completely knee-jerk reaction post though.
I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..
I agree with everyone about Schierholtz. It would have been nice to have Schierholtz as RF and Winn as CF the other day when Rowand got a break.
Torres got the mention because he seems completely pointless by the way they are (not) using him.
There are two reasons I had Burriss after the pitcher:
-Pablo Sandoval might actually get walks
-Three speedy guys are back-to-back-to-back the second time through the lineup. They could try the bunt, sac, steal, tactics like they attempted last year.
-Rowand would be a good follow-up for those three
Sandoval needs to strike out less, and if he can’t fix his K rate in the majors, he’s going to have to do it in the minors. He’s struck out nearly 22% of the time in the short season, and for someone who is going to walk less than 5% of the time, that is completely unacceptable. He’s like Dallas McPhearson with less walks and less power. He has shown absolutely 0 power, and low OBP and low slugging isn’t going to play at third base. Maybe he’ll play as a solid catcher, but if he keeps it up that’s the only place he’s going to be valuable… in which case he should be in the minors at any rate, working on catching.
I missed last night’s game and part of Wednesday’s because of my back injury. Has Sandoval suddenly got in the crapper on defense? Having watched all the previous games, I’d been pleased with his defense; didn’t see any errors or plays that he should have made that he didn’t.
In looking up the stats, he still hasn’t made an error.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I didn’t watch the game, but everyone was really complimenting his D in the gameday thread. I think there were at least 3 times during the game where people said he made a good play.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Sandoval’s UZR/150 is -7 right now. Small sample size, sure, but nobody expected him to play better than -5 runs. If he can hit slightly above league average, he’s a league average 3b.
I thought I didn’t understand defensive stats, now I KNOW I don’t understand them.
I’m struggling to think of one play that Sandoval failed to make that a “league average” 3B would have made. I recall one ball that shot past the 5.5 hole and he dove for it, but I’m not sure anyone could have made it. I remember him charging a bunt and trying to make a play a 1B, but the runner was safe. Again, it was a VERY tough play that would be a hit 9 times out of 10 even with Brooks Robinson at the hot corner.
How in the world can UZR determine he’s -7 runs?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
His UZR on fangraphs is -0.5 right now: -0.9 Range, -0.2 on the double play, and 0.6 in regard to errors/not making errors. Prorate that over 150 games (or something) and I guess that’s how you get -7.0.
Also, sometimes UZR does funny things, as the creator himself explains here.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
Really?
He botched a double play in Sanchez’s start (Hairston’s infield single), and I remember at least two times when he couldn’t get to playable ground balls hit to his left. I think he dove to both of them, which made it look like no one could get to them, but I’m pretty sure that most 3B would have made both plays without having to dive.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry. Because he was awesome once, and, goddammit, he shall be awesome once again!
I hope.
He made a nice diving stop tonight and another one last night. He looks solid to me.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I didn’t say that he’s been terrible or anything, just surprised that you can’t think of a bad play. But, did you notice how he kind of dives at everything? Sometimes it looks to me that he’s diving at balls that most 3B would get to without having to dive, which makes them look harder than they actually are. Right now he’s looking below average to me. It’ll be interesting to see his UZR in the end of the year.
Adoptive parent of Noah Lowry. Because he was awesome once, and, goddammit, he shall be awesome once again!
I hope.
As said, it’s early, but I think he’s holding his own. (I think we should ask Howie since he’s an expert at “holding his own”.) I was concerned after watching him boot balls all over the place in the exhibition against the A’s.
At this point, maybe he’s a little below average, maybe not. I think even his biggest detractors (I’m looking at you xanthan!) have to be pleased with what they’ve seen so far.
Pablo’s defense would probably make a good separate Fanpost/discussion.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I don’t recall the botched DP ball, but if was in the infield and should have been at least one out, why was it scored a single?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Still way too early to panic
Giants have 11 out of their next 14 at home, and if they’re still playing like this after that time, then it’s time to go crazy. Torres and Velez both on the team was ALWAYS crazy, and they can fix that right now if they want to, but the rest would be an overreaction. I would have sent Burriss down and called up Frandsen, but the three hits in yesterday’s game probably saved him for now. It’s also an example on why you don’t panic at this time about anybody. Anyway, Bochy talked about the possibility of a roster move today, so it wouldn’t surprise me to see Velez or Torres go down and take Alex Hinshaw with them. I can see Frandsen and Pat Misch getting called up, since Misch is off to a nice start at Fresno and throwing strikes.
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
i kind of disagree, because the track record has been so poor over the last few years that a poor start does not inspire the logical idea or emotional feeling that things will get better. if it was the angels, we could all take a deep breath and feel confident in our abilities to rebound. with the giants, though?
the only thing i can think of is that it cant get any worse right now…but the padres were probably saying the same thing last year, and i doubt it was of any consolation.
the old cliche about losing the right way would even make me happier. less walks given, more walks taken and at least i could look at my novelty giants hulk fist in the eye…
i adopt Les Plack, D.D.S. for the following reasons:
1. greatest name for occupation ever (except maybe lesbian prostitute sharon bottoms)
2. i am hoping for free dental care from my son (if he ever hears of this)
3. the giants need him more than anyone because their smiles are all they've got right now
by Headhunter Rollins on Apr 17, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
This isn't the year we make the playoffs
So, why send the youngsters down at all? Rather, I’d send Aurilla down and bring up Frandsen. Then if we’re still gonna sit Ishi against LH’s give Pablo a few starts at first, and Frandsen at third.
Don’t send Burriss down. Give Ishi, Burriss, Nate and Frandsen a minimum of 350 ABs each this year.
No one should be surprised that we’re not going to do well this year, but it was the overwhelming majority opinion of the Cove, that we see what we got for the future.
I do agree we need to trade Rowand, probably to the Yanks. I wouldn’t ask for much, but would want Rowand’s salary to be picked up by the Yanks.
My two favorite teams are the Giants, and whomever is playing the Dodgers!
by World Series or Bust on Apr 17, 2009 10:53 AM PDT reply actions
this makes a lot of sense, but doesn’t put butts in seats.
and the Giants FO are all about putting butts in seats.
"You ask for game winning hits, I give you Eugenio Velez"
by The Gene Hackman on Apr 17, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Veterans don't put butts in the seats either
which leads me to believe that they may finally make the change.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
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