Sabean and Bochy, Nightmare combination
by chacabuco on Apr 16, 2009 3:13 PM PDT
57 comments
It's one thing to have an unimaginative GM that is unwilling to place any reliance on younger players until it's really too late (see, e.g., the Dave Roberts signing). It's another thing to combine that unimaginative GM with a boring and conservative manager. The result is that you get neither progress nor development.
Maybe having Ishikawa as our starting 1st baseman is a bit of a stretch. But how is platooning him with Rich Aurilia either helping his development or showing us whether or not the guy can surprise us and be an every day player at this level?
Maybe Manny Burriss as a major league starter is a year or two from being realistic (if ever), but how is benching the guy for a mediocre veteran with no upside going to help the team in the short, medium or long term?
Why (oh WHY) would you ever start a young, raw and talented player at a new position in his first year in the majors after the guy was only recently playing in A ball?? The dude was in San Jose last year. LAST YEAR!
After last night's golden sombrero, I am actually concerned that they might sit Fred Lewis against the next lefty. The guy hits about fifteen points lower against lefties and is under 30, quick, bench him!
If there is a God, Neukom will get rid of Sabean before the trade deadline so we can have someone else determine our fate. Bochy might not be terrible with another GM, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if he were bounced, as well.
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I was expecting some nightmare fuel type photoshop.
by chilibean_3 on Apr 16, 2009 3:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You and TexasRanger should hang out. But:
1. You got me there I have no idea what good this does anyone besides Aurilia.
2. They sat Manny because he has like 2 hits so far. He’s doing pretty horrible.
3. Because he’s shown the ability to hit at the major league level and they didn’t want to have to toss Bengie because he’s too important to our lineup. How is putting Pablo at 3rd hurting him?
4. I’m actually suprised at how pro-Lewis the org has been. I was suprised they were willing to release Roberts and eat 6M to make room for him. But I don’t think even Bochey could justify benching Freddy in place of Velez (since we know Schierholtz wouldn’t take his spot).
Semi-proud adoptive father of Scott Barnes.
by boonitez on Apr 16, 2009 3:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My lineup had Sandy at 1st
and Ishikawa proving he can hit in Fresno.
by chacabuco on Apr 16, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ishikawa is out of options.
Also, who’d you have at third?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on Apr 16, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NATE THE GREAT!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Apr 16, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, did he play third at some point?
I’ve never heard of this.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Still with jokes. Now with updates.
by groug on Apr 16, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to some early, obscure texts...
…he played thirdbase long ago. Most modern scholars now doubt the canonicity of those texts however, and modern othodoxy acknowledges no link between Nate Schierholtz and thirdbase. Eschatologically speaking, Nate is not The Promised One.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Apr 16, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
shut your lying mouth!
Randy Winn cannot play third base. Randy Winn cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz, Giants 3B of the future! Randy Winn cannot play third base.
by groud on Apr 17, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he must be on the team, Aurilia
If you want a true rebuilding year, Frandsen. At the end of the year, you’ll have actually evaluated several young players and will know who can stick.
But we’ll never have a rebuilding year with Sabean, because he’s too delusional to know when he can’t win.
by chacabuco on Apr 16, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
8 games
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 16, 2009 3:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ONLY 154 MORE GAMES TIL PLAYOFFS START
Semi-proud adoptive father of Scott Barnes.
by boonitez on Apr 16, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, the NBA season just goes on forever, doesn’t it?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Apr 16, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that it’s way too early to be worried, but what message does your manager send when he starts platooning and shaking up his lineup after only one week? It sure looks to me like HE’S worried, and then I start thinking that maybe I should be too. By the way, I hate to make jokes out of something like this, (actually I’m well known for it) but look to your right. You see “Garnett could miss all of NBA playoffs,” and then two items above it you see “Celtics GM Danny Ainge suffers heart attack.” Anyone thinks they’re related?
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Apr 16, 2009 4:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets grab a beer and bitch about this shit dude
Why does Sabean always look constipated?
by TexasRanger on Apr 16, 2009 9:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Totally
Back when it was Fox Sports Net, I was thinking about having a big colorful sign that said FSN
Fire
Sabean
Now
Pretty clever, eh? But those jerks had to change it to Comcast. Maybe it could be Can Sabean Now? But that’s confusing.
by chacabuco on Apr 17, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bochy needs to take some of the blame
Last year and this year he stated how important it was to get off to a fast start. He could not find a way to make it happen. Then as the team starts to gel and is within 10 games of first by the allstar break, he states the team needs a fast start coming off the allstar break, and of course again he can’t deliver. The odd thing about this team, is that it actually looks rather poorly coached. The base on balls differential is unreal. Not surrealistic but unreal.
by bradleybear on Apr 16, 2009 10:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It looks poorly coached because it is
Or, rather was. For forever the Giants drafted players with no plate discipline, and failed to teach them any in the minors (either because of bad instruction, or because they simply didn’t try). You can’t expect a player to suddenly pick up patience after a couple months of spring instruction, it just doesn’t happen. It’s either instilled in the minors (and probably earlier) or it just doesn’t happen. I don’t know where the myth came from that plate discipline is a simple adjustment that a hitter can make in a single season, or off season, or spring, it’s just not.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Apr 16, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would say it still is. The glove work not good. Yet the only time I see Big Head get on someone’s case case is if the someone is rookie. ( ie Alex tonight but i’v not seen him talk to Zito in such a way)Very bush league there.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 16, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frandsen barely hitting 200 so far in triple A.
I would have preferred him over Uribe, Richie is a giant.
by bradleybear on Apr 16, 2009 10:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t read anyting into Frandsen’s numbers in Fresno yet. 1, it’s very very very early. 2, I’m sure he’s still reeling from being sent down at all.
As far as Uribe, eh. He hit 20 bombs once upon a time, and according to Schulman can still play the hell out of shortstop.
by tyrannoman on Apr 16, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the second paragraph is a joke right?
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou. "He has some bat speed and the ball comes off the bat pretty well" - K.Law.
by BrianBokake on Apr 17, 2009 2:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
During one of his Spring Traning Notebooks (or perhaps his blog) Schulman noted the Uribe was the best defensive SS in camp. That’s all I’m saying.
Besides, he isn’t the worst backup infielder in the world.
by tyrannoman on Apr 17, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aaaaargh!
You should warn us before you post scary pictures like that.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
by EliminateMe on Apr 17, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 18, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken but Schulman might not be the best eyes to trust on something like defensive ability. If I’m not mistaken weren’t his range #’s reminiscent Joe Castle?
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou. "He has some bat speed and the ball comes off the bat pretty well" - K.Law.
by BrianBokake on Apr 17, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SSS
Judgment Day is coming
comics | art | Nattowear
by Natto on Apr 16, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“She Said Small?”
Ouch man, but there are others out there dude.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen should be with the big team.
by WalrusMan on Apr 17, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uribe
It was his uncle who could play SS. So far he has looked rather pedestrian in the field. But if they wanted to hire Uribe, there was no need for Renteria at 9 mil per year. Heck if this was a rebuilding year, might as well have started Frandsen at second, and Burriss at short. Let them gel together and have a good second half getting ready for 2010. Also would be nice to see Schierholtz get a few AB’s
by bradleybear on Apr 16, 2009 10:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Heck if this was a rebuilding year, might as well have started Frandsen at second, and Burriss at short. Let them gel together and have a good second half getting ready for 2010.
Nice traditional answer. But with a mortgage to pay there is no way ownership is willing taking that option to start a season.
As for Urbie starting at SS. A couple games a week and a pinch hitter vs LHP is fine. Starting most games a week and we have another large issue to deal with.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 16, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, Dave, you are admitting that the bean counters have overruled the actual baseball people in the Giants Front Office?
Because Bradley is right: Burriss should be the SS and Frandsen the 2B this year, so that we can evaluate them for our future. The same with Nate. And I don’t think Renteria will hit any better this year than Frandsen would have (or will, once he’s recalled).
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Apr 18, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as I’ve been a Giants fan I have had to acknowledge that "bean counter" have something to say. Now days that something seems to be paying somewhere in the upper teens of millions each year for the park. In my youth it was moves to Anchorage, Toronto or Tampa area. It is what it is.
In this case though I think "the bean counters" had some allies. With no Uribe should Rentawreck be a complete bust the Giants would be back choosing between Bocock or Burriss. Given The Big Head’s History ( see ’07 Durham vs Frandsen ) Burriss would probably have partial playing time (regardless of the size of Renteria’s melt down). So then the question is would you rather have Uribe as the insurance policy for SS on the 25 man while Burriss plays regularly or have Burriss get sporadic to partial playing time between multiple positions? I think enough "baseball people" would argue for the former. (I know I would.) Between the 2 factions you get Uribe.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 19, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And hindsight is always 20/20. Orlando Hudson for 1/5 of Renteria’s salary and Burris @ short hitting in the eight hole looks pretty sweet right now too. Uribe could’ve backed both of them up quite well w/ Frandsen sucking it up in AAA for far less money. But it didn’t happen, so lets hope Frandsen stops being a dickhead, swallows his pride, and hits at AAA and proves he is a big league hitter some day
by m34josh on Apr 17, 2009 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It has nothing to do with hindsight
We have a GM who continually makes TERRIBLE free agent signings. Terrible. Including signing three free agents at the very beginning of this offseason, and paying them top dollar, when it was one of the biggest buyers markets in recent memory.
Sabean is a terrible judge of talent and has shown absolutely zero ability to read the market.
by chacabuco on Apr 17, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every team as a GM the screws the pooch with Free agency.
Reading the market has more the do with what is, and what you think is, availible in your own upper farm then the price you pay to bring help. Care to list off the position players the Giants farm has produced in the last 15 years? Niether do I. Lets just say if Rowand is the last long term contract for a non impact player then things have greatly improved in these parts.
2 years and a club option is not long term in sport were it take a draft pick 3+ years to reach teh show.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 17, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frandsen stops being a what?
Where’d you get that from? Just because he’s struggling at the plate?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, coming soon to a minor league near you.
by EliminateMe on Apr 17, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overly excited?
We’re not yet (quite) ten games into the season. Might it be a touch early to panic?
Sure, the signs have been quite disappointing overall, but even pennant-winning teams have stretches when they lose seven or eight games out of 10.
If Jonathan Sanchez were to win tonight and Tim Lincecum be the old (at 24? :) Tim tomorrow, our viewpoint on the season would change drastically. Yet the 25 players would have remained the same.
Let me ask you this: Will Pablo Sandoval continue to hit .212? Will Fred Lewis continue to hit .379?
IIRC, the Giants like to look at the season in quarters. I’m thinking we should allow the season to get an eighth of the way through (instead of one-eighteenth where we stand now) before we make a rush to judgment.
by sharksrog on Apr 17, 2009 7:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude, I was panicking way before the season started
It’s not the record, it’s the lineup. It’s basically mathematically impossible for this team to do well.
by chacabuco on Apr 17, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get the feeling that we’ll be better than we are now. But I don’t get the feeling that we’ll be anywhere close to good. In fact, I think we’ll be pretty bad. The team isn’t going to continue failing to walk like it is right now. But they still won’t be walking a lot. The fielding might get better as people get more comfortable. But it’s still not going to be great fielding.
We knew before the season began that the offense would be pretty bad. The start of the season seems to have emphasized how true that is, more so than anything else. Frankly, even if Sanchez and Timmy start playing great, I would still think we had a terrible offense, because we do. We knew it was going to happen. And Sabean got us into this position – I know he’s rebuilding now, but he was still the GM when we were absolutely terrible. And Bochy isn’t helping, at all. So honestly, given that we always knew this offense was going to be bad and this team wasn’t going to win a bunch, I’m not sure why we shouldn’t be dissatisfied with the people who brought things to this situation.
It seems like there’s some fans who are overreacting to the bad start, and so a lot of people here overreact to that, and say, Well, we shouldn’t freak out. They’re not this bad, things are going to get better, we’re just unlucky. And that’s a good insight, it’s something to keep in mind, but they seem to be forgetting the fact that the Giants really aren’t good this year. They weren’t before the season started, and they still aren’t. The fact that we seem worse now than we really are shouldn’t stop us from criticizing Sabean and Bochy, because we’re still pretty bad.
by J. Frank Parnell on Apr 17, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems like there’s some fans who are overreacting to the bad start, and so a lot of people here overreact to that, and say, Well, we shouldn’t freak out.
That’s the McCoven – Bringing the "Lunatic" to Lunatic Fringe. Most of us have a very jaded eye when the front office talks about playing the youth so we also function as a self help group as different ones of us climb on the ledge at different times of the year.
Nice post overall. I think we are going to see a lot of streaks this year. That is the nature of clubs were young players get a lot of field time.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 18, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rog is certainly the voice of reason here. The only problem is that even the next two games are big if’s. Sanchez has to beat Danny Haren and Lincecum might be flu weakened. It’s way too early to panic, but you sure would like to see a light out of the tunnel somewhere!!
Proud new dad of Edgardo errr Edgar Renteria!!!
by rxmeister on Apr 17, 2009 8:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
WHO CARES ABOUT THE NEXT TWO GAMES?!?!?!
Do you honestly think that this collection of talent can win anything? Meanwhile, we continue to sport a $90 million payroll and concessions and ticket prices are sky high. I would rather have a $45mm payroll, cheaper seats, cheaper beer and a better product on the field. But that’s not possible with this clown.
by chacabuco on Apr 17, 2009 10:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure they owners will lower prices with lower over head. Happens all the time. Dude you need to cut down on the Limbaugh flavored Kool Aid.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 17, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure they owners will lower prices with lower over head. Happens all the time. Dude you need to cut down on the Limbaugh flavored Kool Aid.
Now look at me. I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by zodiac_chiller on Apr 17, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry about that. He has been such a large scale peddler for that kind of sloppy "thinking" for so long he has become my own personal piñata for kind of stuff.
Better conditions for Large Business interests are going to be good for every one because they will automatically pass on the saving to the costumer over looks those interests have a responsibility to turn a profit or even reinvest. And the last few decades the larger the entity the more they view "reinvesting" as buying up competition. And that is before you get into Large Business entities that let their short term self interest run amok.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 18, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Limbaugh?!
Really? That’s kind of a stretch, don’t you think?
But, anyway, next time you should do a little research before you reply. It’s happened before in San Francisco, and it’s happening right now across the league.
by chacabuco on Apr 17, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That has nothing to do with lower over head (the lower pay roll you mentioned) and everything to do with a little thing called competition. Owners are aware households are making more discretionary things compete for the same dollar then they have for decades. Perhaps you need to brush up on your basic economics.
If one just lowers over head and more often than not the owner does what Lorria is doing with the Fish or the Bidwell family did for long time with the NFL Cards.
Where is my beer & chili dog?
by daveinexile on Apr 18, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do think the Giants’ can win enough games with this talent to stay in contention until the trade deadline. Before we all get sooo overwroght, as sharksrog pointed out we’re 1/18th of the way through the season. Do any of us think the Padres will keep playing .700 baseball?
by tyrannoman on Apr 17, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Define contention
Judging by marketing of years past, the Giants would have us think anything less than 10 games back is contention. Realistically, I consider that number to be about 5. There’s a chance that they’ll be in giant’s propaganda contention, almost none that they’ll be in realistic contention.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Apr 17, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked it better
I liked it better when BB stood for Barry Bonds, not Bruce and Brian.
by sharksrog on Apr 18, 2009 11:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
THATS the problem! BB also stands for walks, but the team is confused and thinks that instead of actually getting some walks, they are thinking of Bruce and Brian! WOW …so easy!
Robby Thompson "hey Hinshaw, let me see your hat for a minute."
Alex HInshaw "Why?"
Robby Thompson ,"You'll see...."
by LargeFarva on Apr 18, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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