Pitch Counts and Tim Lincecum
by Grant on Mar 25, 2009 1:09 PM PDT
87 comments
I answered some questions for the SBN Reds site here, and for some reason, I actually did a minute's worth research before answering one of the questions. My DiMaggio-like streak of pulling information and opinions from my nether regions is now over, so I might as well use what I found:
Me: I'm not too worried. Lincecum threw the 5th-most pitches in baseball, and everyone freaked out over his 138-pitch outing, but what's crazy is that was the only start by anyone in either league with more than 133 pitches. Ten years ago, a pitcher went over 133 pitches in a start 85 times. Things have changed, for sure. Lincecum's 2009 would have ranked 19th in Pitcher Abuse Points in 1999; his stress score would have ranked 26th. He led the majors in both categories last year.
The funny part about all that is that I'm not sure that pitchers are any healthier now. I worry about Lincecum because he's a pitcher, not because he's short or because Bochy was slagging his arm last year. I would have handled him differently, for sure, but I'm pretty sure that he wasn't abused to a pitchforks-and-torches level.
When the Great Pitch Count Brouhaha of Aught-Eight went down, something didn’t feel right. When I read that Lincecum was leading the NL in pitches thrown at one point, that same funny feeling came up. It just didn’t feel like Lincecum was being abused. Worked differently than I would have preferred, sure, but not outright abused. But if I’ve learned one thing about baseball, it’s that just feeling things is a good way to be wrong. This is why defensive stats make a lot of us twitch. I just doesn’t feel like Ray Durham is an average second baseman, UZR be damned.
So I was pleasantly surprised to find the reason why I wasn’t freaking out about how Bruce Bochy handled Lincecum. The lobe of my brain that is conditioned to freak out about pitch counts is still working with a mental database from 1999. That was when internet-types were raising the biggest stink about overworked pitchers, and the concerns eventually trickled up into front offices. And there were some serious, serious workloads to consider. Randy Johnson averaged over 120 pitches in 1999. Everyone and their mother had 10 starts with close to 120 pitches thrown. Lincecum would have been in the middle of the pack 10 years ago, which is remarkable for a successful pitcher -- more success usually leads to more pitches thrown because managers are reluctant to remove a pitcher who is throwing well. When I think of "abused pitchers," I’m thinking of circa-’99 Livan Hernandez, and that's why I just couldn’t get that worked up over Timmy last year.
Now here’s where I present my research about how many days pitchers are spending on the disabled list now compared with ’99, and…wait, it was here a second ago. Where did I…hey, Snarf, no! No! Bad dog! Bad dog! Ah, dang it. My dog just ate my research. Actually, I have no clue how to look up such a thing. For now, all I can do is mention that it doesn’t feel like pitchers are any healthier now than they were ten years ago. Starters are throwing fewer pitches, especially in the minor leagues, but pitchers are pitchers are pitchers, and they’re still injury prone.
So the next time you read a scary, Lincecum-was-abused point, try not to reach for the sharpened toothbrush handle right away. Think of the context before you get all stabby. It’s not a good thing that Lincecum was one of the hardest worked pitchers in baseball last year, but that designation doesn’t mean as much as it once did. Save the Bochy loathing for when Rich Aurilia pinch hits for Travis Ishikawa in the fourth inning. Now that just feels like appropriate loathing.
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I do think pitch counts are important to track, but I also think people are way too rigid about them. Like, if a pitcher throws a lot of pitches, he WILL be horribly hurt and mangled FOR LIFE. Of course, in reality, overuse CAN lead to injury problems, but it’s not 100% or anything.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Mar 25, 2009 1:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but my main problem with the Giants wasn’t so much the high pitch counts, but it was the rationale (or lack of) behind them. The whole “TIM NEEDS A COMPLETE GAME, DARN IT!” was idiotic.
by xanthan on Mar 25, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I agree. HE NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO WIN. Ugh.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Mar 25, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bochy quote that made me nuts:
"That’s big for a pitcher to get that first shutout," Bochy said.
Bochy also acknowledged that Lincecum’s Cy Young Award candidacy entered his mind. Lacking a complete game, Bochy reasoned, might hamper Lincecum’s chances against Arizona’s Brandon Webb, the other top contender for the distinction.
"I didn’t want that in the record when they talk about Cy Young votes," Bochy said.
by xanthan on Mar 25, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
we know there’s a corollary between your pitcher winning the cy young and your team doing what you’re hired to make it do: win the world series…. WTF
by bondslegend on Mar 25, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The world series wasn’t really an issue last year… the CY Young will sell an unknown, but probably very significant number of tickets and other merchandise.
by Johnny Disaster on Mar 25, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ooh "That's Big for a..."
Forgot about that sentence opener from the Bocho. *See below.
"Oh, you're Lisa Stevens from Wells Fargo Bank."
"You can't say enough about..." -Buce Bochy
by Rorealis on Mar 25, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, of course, there’s another reason not to let pitch counts run wild: pitchers, as a general rule, suck ass when they’re on their 120th pitch.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Mar 25, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, there’s some game theory in it as well. I remember the THT article (I think it was THT) that came out last season that broke down a pitchers ERA by pitch count. Something like past 110+ pitches it wasn’t worth it to leave a pitcher in the game — generally speaking.
by xanthan on Mar 25, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was that over 120 pitches and the performance in the next game suffered.
by Johnny Disaster on Mar 25, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if you’re the coach, how much do you listen to the pitcher when he’s on the mound? How much can you trust a guy if he says he feels fine, especially if he’s an elite pitcher?
I’m thinking back to the Red Sox a few years ago in the playoffs. Late in the game, Grady Little comes to the mound and Pedro Martinez says he can keep going. So Little trusts him, and the next thing you know it’s the offseason and he’s out of a job. It’s a matter of balancing your strict pitch count with the way the game is unfolding, I guess.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Mar 25, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a good point. No competitor ever wants to be taken out of the game, but it is the coaches responsibility to make substitutions to better the teams chances of winning. It’s probably harder for the manager to pull an elite pitcher from the game than it is a mediocre and/or young pitcher.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 25, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
more bochy botching
Bochy said Ishikawa will play against some lefties “but Richie is probably going to be out there, and that includes against some right-handers.”
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Mar 25, 2009 1:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
FUCK
He better be taking ABs from [insert 2B here].
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Mar 25, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he will
You can’t disrespect a veteran by not playing him.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Now with updates!
by groug on Mar 25, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
evidently it’s OK to disrespect fans and season ticket holders all you want.
i like richie and understand he still hits lefties, i just want the team to move on, give Ishi a chance to show whether he can hit lefties, and see whether the Gooze can stick there if Ishi can’t.
why can’t the botch respect that?
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Mar 25, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude..
Bochy actually said Richie was going to START against some righties. I guess we all saw it coming. Assuming Ishikawa handles himself decently at the plate he should be starting 140 games.
"Oh, you're Lisa Stevens from Wells Fargo Bank."
"You can't say enough about..." -Buce Bochy
by Rorealis on Mar 25, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
btw what's funnier?
“more bochy bitching”
or
“that’s just bochy being botchy”
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Mar 25, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy bitched about his botched borscht.
That’s the best I got
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Mar 25, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope rich is just holding jesus’ spot………….please dont let rich take at bats past july jesus, please
by shaolinironlion on Mar 25, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man
I really hate the Bruce Bochy is the manager of the Giants
by bondslegend on Mar 25, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Mar 25, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm crapping you negative
from Hank
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Mar 25, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce Bochy is my least favorite manager ever.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
..and this 10 is for the World San Francisco fans Classic.
by thehavenot on Mar 25, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Mar 25, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how you think....
And I think how you like…
Or maybe how howie likes….. to like think….?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
by baetown415 on Mar 25, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
_GIANTS_MANAGER_ is my least favorite manager ever.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Mar 26, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this makes me cry inside.
O RLYA starting against a RHP is a pitchfork and torches level offense to me.
I has a sad. :(
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Mar 26, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LALALALLALALALLALALA!
/holds fingers in ears
I’m sorry, I can’t hear you.
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
by ResDog on Mar 26, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasnt lincecum telling us about his 150 pitch games every three days at UW?
anyway, it’s not good to overwork pitchers, but if their arms are used to the strain, there’s no reason why they can’t pitch forever. if lincecum was throwing a lot in college, and a lot now, his arm is used to the strain. plus his motion is simple, not a lot of opportunity to injure himself that i can see. i think the reason everyone gets so worked up is if you throw 98 pitches per game then throw 135 once you’re going to feel the strain, and maybe hurt yourself
by quincy0191 on Mar 25, 2009 1:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, there’s a stress theory that says that most of the pitching injuries occur when pitchers are under greater stress. I’m going to assume that there’s much more stress being generated when you’re trying to get Albert Pujols out instead of a Sophomore first baseman.
by xanthan on Mar 25, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that is true that he pitched every three days, then he had the Tuesday (non conf game) and the Friday (opening 3-game series game) schedule. It seems odd that a manager (especially at the collegiate level) would do that to a young arm. Do you have a link for that quote/interview?
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 25, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I asked Timmy about pitch counts a few months ago...
And here’s what he said (this is from a six-minute press conference-style group interview I ended up taking part in a few months ago, where the lowlight was some dude who kept wasting everyone’s time with questions about Lincecum’s hair and how much he liked The Beatles. No, I’m not kidding.):
BASG: It was a big deal in September when you pitched that shutout in San Diego, throwing 138 pitches. What’s your opinion on pitch counts for you?
Tim Lincecum: For me, I’ve always had pitch counts. I’ve had games where I threw almost 160 pitches, you know? But I understand where the pitch count has to come from, everybody in Major League Baseball, professional baseball for that matter is a liability. I mean, you gotta take a risk with that, you don’t want to blow ‘em out. As much as guys will be out there telling the coach how good they feel, you know, some guys might hold back and say, "maybe I’m not feeling that well," so you got kind of a happy medium where you go up or down from it and that’s where the pitch count comes in.
BASG: How big of a breakthrough was that for you personally, that game?
TL: It was big, it was a big step for me to get my first complete game. I was definitely pumped, it was nice to actually get to hug the catcher at the end of the game as opposed to waiting for everybody to get to the locker room, so that was nice.
by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 25, 2009 2:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
it just _feels_ to me like
he’s not the kind of guy who…
you know….
how to say…
he’s not, uh, made of, well… that porcelain stuff?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Mar 25, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s not made of toilets???
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Mar 25, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
American Standard, baby!
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
..and this 10 is for the World San Francisco fans Classic.
by thehavenot on Mar 25, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
people seem to think tim is invincible, thats not the case, he’s beyond that, he’s infoulable.
by shaolinironlion on Mar 25, 2009 3:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Grant
If you just read every single comment on every fanpost on this site you would have already thought this. Come on man!
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2008/6/9/549070/fun-with-game-scores#6689217
by AngelWillSaveUs on Mar 25, 2009 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Haven’t there been a bunch of studies that show a correlation between high per-inning pitch counts and how injury-prone the pitcher is? Flem’s always going on about “high stress innings” when he calls the games, possibly because Cain and Zito esp. (and Timmy to a lesser extent) would often reach 100 pitches by the fifth inning. So, in that context, a 138-pitch complete game is fairly efficient.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Mar 25, 2009 3:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I always understood high-stress innings to mean innings with runners on, pitching from the stretch, etc. Never thought it meant in a physical risk sense.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Mar 25, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beat me to it… yes, not a cruise inning. I think he picked it up from Krukow.
by Johnny Disaster on Mar 25, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom House and the National Pitching Association talked about the correlation between high pitch counts and players under 25. He claimed that very few if any pitchers that regularly exceeded 100 pitches under the age of 25 escaped without major arm problems. I heard him refer to it as Dwight Gooden Syndrome.
These are the same guys that successfully lobbied Little League Baseball to go with strict pitch counts instead of the old “innings pitched” rules.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Mar 25, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard him refer to it as Dwight Gooden Syndrome.
I thought that was just cocaine.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Mar 25, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s never just cocaine—it’s usually hookers and cocaine, or cocaine and more cocaine…
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Mar 25, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget the pills and booze.
Hi, I am Johnny Disaster.
by Johnny Disaster on Mar 25, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed
I worry about Lincecum because he’saour best pitcher,
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Mar 25, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tim is a demi-god cyborg
Put me in the not-concerned pile.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Mar 25, 2009 3:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
CC Sabathia's arm is going to fall off...
If it doesn’t then this whole pitch-count thing is balderdash.
by lincysgiants on Mar 25, 2009 4:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is the absolute wrong thinking. There are always those exceptions to the rule, doesn’t mean that the rule is bogus. For every pitcher that is able to throw and throw no matter what, there are many, many more who can’t hold up to the stress. So you might have a Sabbathia or (God willing) Lincecum who could throw 120 pitches every start with no ill-effects, but you are going to have that many more who have arm troubles and are made of porcelain.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Mar 25, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
CC Sabbathia is not a young pitcher. The idea is that you need to limit the workload of the under ~25 guys. Like we haven"t done with Matt Cain.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Mar 25, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was being sarcastic. Obviously there is something to pitch counts, although I don’t value them nearly as much as many seem to. In ESPN the magazine Lincecum talked about this very subject, and said some days his arm tired after 80 pitches and some days he is good to go at 120… This makes more sense to me, as long innings will force a pitcher out of the game faster because the arm tires more with repeated use (i.e. 5 innings at 20 pitches per is more tiring than 10 innings at 10 pitches per).
As for C.C. Sab(one b)athia there is something very Rob Nenn about what he did for the Brewers this year… no matter what generation it is in baseball, he was overworked.
by lincysgiants on Mar 25, 2009 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Robb Nen(one n).
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Mar 26, 2009 2:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
I’m more worried about him throwing 60 pitches in the first three innings of games, or throwing 120 pitches to go 6 innings, than about him throwing 20 extra pitches to go into the 8th or 9th or chase a shutout or bail out the bullpen when there are injuries or after a series in Colorado or Cincy. That’s what seemed to improve last year and hopefully will get better each year.
Also, (as fascinating as all this is) I would like to say that I thought Lincecum improved unbelievably with the bat last year. He’s not Renie Martin or anything, but I was really impressed that he went from basically unable to bunt to actually making contact on a semi-regular basis and at least as good a bunter as any of the other pitchers. Not why he won the Cy Young, but to me more evidence of his freaky talent/ability to work to improve himself/desire to succeed.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
by natteringnabob on Mar 25, 2009 5:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
first paragraph said it all for me, well put sir
by shaolinironlion on Mar 25, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa
I just read something on the internet that encouraged a thoughtful, measured response to a potentially controversial subject… overwhelmed by cognitive dissonance… there is no emoticon for this sensation…
Well put indeed.
by thethrillisgone on Mar 25, 2009 5:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry
“thoughtful, measured response”? You do know where you are, right?
by bondslegend on Mar 25, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Home is where heart is?
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 25, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
porcelain, dude
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Mar 25, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 25, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Home is where you make it.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 25, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You like to look at homos naked?
by AmorVincitOmnia on Mar 26, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, no…Home is where you make it.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Wronghanded Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 26, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually seems more like
Heart is where the home is.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Mar 26, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My first thought..it takes a village? The next one …. the p word.
by timmeh on Mar 25, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nolan Ryan
Thinks all modern day pitchers are wusses. Do away with the pitch entirely, says Nolan.
by Stadtfeld on Mar 25, 2009 9:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bring back four man pitching rotation and the complete games
by wilriv21 on Mar 25, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am sure he has a lifetime Advil supply to give to all of the pitchers as well.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Wronghander Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 25, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a few weeks
I worry that Bochy is going to let Timmy throw 120-130 a start right off the bat this season. Even though the fear of Tyler Walker is no longer an issue, there’s still the fear of gasbags like Barbieri, Jenkins, and mouth-breathing KNBR callers who will light it up whenever Lincecum is pulled from a 1-1 game at 99 pitches.
And they’ll all be citing Nolan Ryan, no doubt, because Nolan was most definitely not made of porcelain.
by ho-hum baby on Mar 25, 2009 9:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’ve always been curious as to how and why “mouth breathing” became a synonym for stupid.
I breathe through my mouth a lot, but that’s because of my allergies, not my lack of intelligence.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Mar 25, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am with you on this…allergies mess me and my breathing up.
by HitorMisch on Mar 25, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I breathe through my mouth because my dorm room smells like month-old garbage. And my roommate farts a lot
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Mar 25, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mouth breathing is for elitist Spanish speaking folk!
by xanthan on Mar 26, 2009 4:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry...
I breathe through my mouth too. I hardly ever call someone a “mouth breather” and when I do it’s without much thought. Really, I just have the phrase stuck in my head from an old Jesus Lizard song. Chorus: “Don’t get me wrong, he’s a nice guy; I like him just fine — but he’s a mouth breather!”
Definitely showing my age, but the only time I have seriously heard the term used in a public sentence was when one of the L7 women excoriated a dude who was getting too close to the stage. Good times.
/End indie-rock nostalgia (which is at least tolerated here, no?).
by ho-hum baby on Mar 26, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, no offense taken. I’m just curious about the origins of the term.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Mar 26, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.jpg)
Wow, haven’t heard the name L7 in a while. The Jesus Lizard is back together and playing some shows, from what I hear. Pretty pumped about that.
by briandean on Mar 27, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reds comments
“The person who went 5/60 for Rowand, 7/120 for Zito and traded Bonser, Liriano, and Nathan for a year of Pierzynski is still employed? I seriously do not get it.”
That puts things in perspective, don’t it? It hurt too.
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
by ResDog on Mar 26, 2009 7:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OH YEAH?!?!?
well…..youre..a….REDS fan! So…THERE!
by bondslegend on Mar 26, 2009 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're confusing...
….ResDog with RedSog.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Mar 26, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RedSog?
Is that like their sharksrog?
by bondslegend on Mar 26, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
I totally agree. There is no research showing that what Lincecum did was harmful. In fact, as I wrote on last year, if you read through Baseball Prospectus’ PAP braintrust’s rebuttal to Bill James’s assertion that PAP is all hooey, you will find that Lincecum’s usage is not that far away from the pitchers that BP used as examples of good usage.
And as Mark “the Bird” Fidrych can attest, you never know when it can all be taken away from you, so I had no problem with Bochy taking the Cy Young award into account when making his decisions.
I would also assume that is how Lincecum wanted it anyway, and as long as it wasn’t clearly dangerous for Lincecum, why shouldn’t Bochy take Lincecum’s feelings into account when making decisions like that at the end of a season where we were not going to win anything?
As long as he didn’t endanger his arm – and there are no studies that show that going over a certain number of pitches in ONE game is going to hard anyone – why can’t he take the Cy Young into consideration? It is one of the greatest honors a pitcher can get in his career, why wouldn’t you go for it?
Life is short sometimes, you have to go for it. Within reason, though. And 133 pitches is within reason, though clearly on the edge; 150 would not have been.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Mar 26, 2009 8:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought this should be in this thread
One of your finer works, Grant:
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Mar 26, 2009 10:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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