Eugenio Velez: On the Bubble?

by Grant on Mar 20, 2009 9:58 AM PDT Comment 133 comments

Eugenio Velez: Super infield/outfield utility man. The words just roll off the tongue, don't they? And by "roll off the tongue," I mean "roll off the tongue of a person who was bitten by a coral snake and whose mouth has swollen to an unbearable point and oh god where is that antidote they said it would be here." So if that's the tongue the words are rolling off of, "Eugenio Velez: Super infield/outfield utility man," roughly translates to, "pfff hullll sttfffff nonml noml ffffp." Which kind of sums up my feelings on the matter.

There are a lot of Eugenio Velez haters around these parts. Please note that I am not one of them. I'm kind of fascinated by the guy. His minor league career is bizarre. The Blue Jays signed him out of the Dominican Republic, and didn't bother assigning him to Rookie League until he was 22. Then once he was in a full-season league, the Blue Jays told Velez that stolen bases were wicked, naughty things, which is the organizational equivalent of buying a VCR for the digital clock. So even though the guy is 26, all of the "he's still getting used to the game"-stories have merit. Last year was only the third professional season in which he's played more than 100 games. It's borderline remarkable that he's able to even flirt with a .300 OBP in the majors.

When the Giants came out and announced Velez would be getting a fair number of spring innings in center field, I assumed that he was a lock to make the team, and any outfield innings he played were just an attempt to duct-tape a pair of tweezers to a rusted Swiss Army knife. Now, though, I'm wondering if it's a signal that his spot on the team is in jeopardy. Consider:

Velez is a total non-factor in the second base competition, which is a little surprising
Andres Torres is goofy hot this spring, a legitimate center fielder, and coming off a nice year in AAA
Juan Uribe and Rich Aurilia may or may not be competing for one infield utility spot. There's a chance that both players could make the team

My guess: if Frandsen and Burriss are both on the Opening Day roster, Velez isn't. I still think Velez deserves a spot somewhere as a 25th-man, but that spot shouldn't be on a roster with four second basemen and four outfielders capable of playing center.

Poll

Should Eugenio Velez make the team?

Yes

589 votes

No

421 votes

1010 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I just polled myself, and I found that 100% of me is voting for Eugenio. Woo-hoo 1-0 in Eugenio making the team!

Why does Sabean always look constipated?

by TexasRanger on Mar 20, 2009 10:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Now go wash your hands.

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch

by can of corn on Mar 20, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I believe in Jesus

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Mar 20, 2009 10:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Jesus over Velez without even a second thought FTW.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Mar 20, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lol

by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Juan Uribe and Rich Aurilia may or may not be competing for one infield utility spot. There’s a chance that both players could make the team

I’d really prefer if this didn’t happen

Baseball is a lot like life. The line drives are caught, the squibbles go for base hits. It's an unfair game. -Rod Kanehl

by j14 on Mar 20, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

exactly

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Mar 20, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Velez is the new Ochoa. Want a MLB job. Beat him and it’s yours.

Just a hunch but if Torres continues I think he gets the nod if for no other reason than to enable Rock Head to keep Nate on the bench except for 4 P.A.’s and a couple of late inning double switches a week for months on end. Add in Sabean track record for bringing in Cfers and it’s a lock.

Hopefully it back fires and actually works well.

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 20, 2009 10:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He makes the team if

he steals a base off a lefty

by JesseSeg on Mar 20, 2009 10:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed

by KrazyKrabMeat on Mar 20, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

First time I’ve ever worried about a pinch runner’s splits.

by paboperfecto on Mar 20, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Zorak will be on the roster. I am making full use of the Perspective Machine 3000 and not giving too much weight to the spring numbers of Torres and/or how those numbers will impact a spot on the 25-man roster.

I don’t really want Zorak on the roster, but he will be.

by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 20, 2009 10:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Should be Jesus, will be Velez

by lincysgiants on Mar 20, 2009 10:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I voted Yes – mainly because of the walk-off singles!

I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused

by PLUChris on Mar 20, 2009 10:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

what are the odds …

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 20, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’d miss the nicknames.

I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.

by oldjacket on Mar 20, 2009 10:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like fungo-legs, but I don’t think it would stick.

Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt

by Giant among Angels on Mar 20, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I voted yes. He struggled early on last year but after being sent down he hit very well at Fresno (OPS of 881) and in the second half (OPS of 781). There’s not really anyone else more deserving, he’s not in the “needs more seasoning in the minors” category, he’s on the 40 man roster & it’s worth him getting an opportunity.

Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!

by GiantFan on Mar 20, 2009 10:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I say keep him. I love to hate him.

by Norm Median on Mar 20, 2009 10:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Also, I think the game should be halted and he should be spanked whenever he does something stupid.

by Norm Median on Mar 20, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you are getting your crossing your blogs

Minor White > Ansel Adams

by say hey nation on Mar 20, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that doesnt even make sense

by Giant Voodoo on Mar 20, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I figured it was on purpose and laughed.

by paboperfecto on Mar 20, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is awesome.

by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 20, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Electric shock collar.

Controls should be randomly placed some were between sections 136 -142

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 20, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Krukow should be the one who spanks him.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Mar 20, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Grab some pine, meat.

by chilibean_3 on Mar 20, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say keep him. I hate that I love him.

They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long

by bgunn on Mar 20, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

His ability to frustrate apparently knows no bounds. My buddy is an A’s fan and hates his guts. It’s hilarious really, he get’s really worked up when Velez makes an error. I can’t imagine myself doing the same if Mark Ellis bobbled a ball or made a stupid running error. My reaction at this point is just calm, accepting disbelief. “Really Eugenio? Really?”

"Oh, you're Lisa Stevens from Wells Fargo Bank."

by Rorealis on Mar 21, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I poke fun, but I like Eugenio (TOOLZ!). He has his “ruh-roh” moments but he also has moments of epic pwnage.

and the video.

I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.

by oldjacket on Mar 20, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This still strikes me as a great piece of hitting but lousy baserunning. With the winning run on base in the bottom of the ninth, the hitter’s got no business going any further than first. It can’t help win the game but it could hurt, if he got thrown out before the winning run scored. That’s not likely, admittedly, but I think it’s another indication of Velez’ lack of baseball savvy.

Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?

by EliminateMe on Mar 20, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i hope he makes it, but I don’t think he will. I think the Giants are going to take the chicken shit route here. If you don’t keep the older guys you lose them permanently, but if you don’t keep the kids, you can always call them back from the minors later. I think both Aurilia and Uribe will make the team, and I don’t think Velez will. They’ll probably go with four outfielders, and Uribe will be a ridiculously bad emergency outfielder.

Brian Sabean: continuing to monitor the CC and Manny situations

by rxmeister on Mar 20, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Noah Lowry is the fourth outfielder… and maybe a better one than he is a pitcher

by lincysgiants on Mar 20, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah would have to run the ball back into the infield.

by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 20, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and that my friend, is what I call entertainment

by lincysgiants on Mar 20, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He could kick it!

Baseball is a lot like life. The line drives are caught, the squibbles go for base hits. It's an unfair game. -Rod Kanehl

by j14 on Mar 20, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

as ever, i remain, velezy like sunday morning.
he will be this year’s pleasant surprise. him or the Gooze, anyways.

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Mar 20, 2009 10:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Poor infield defense? Check.

Poor outfield defense? Check.

Poor plate discipline? You betcha.

Fast? Check.

Accomplished baserunner? Not particularly.

I just don’t see what this guy brings to the table. He’s not particularly good at any baseball related skill, and cost Timmy a crucial win last year. I want to see this guy off my tv screen even more than that “Who’s Steve the Doer?” guy.

Skin. Steve. Roll.

by biff pocoroba on Mar 20, 2009 10:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Mar 20, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

/quietly notes the misdirection biff is employing before our fantasy draft

by Grant on Mar 20, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just don’t see what this guy brings to the table

Uh, someone to call “Baron Pickoff Von Ironglov” … I mean, that’s not to be just tossed lightly in to AAA.

I mean, when the decrepit corpse of Rich Aurillia is LEGITIMATELY likely to take your roster spot… I think it’s time to consider some kind of drastic intervention.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.

by zenbitz on Mar 20, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

to be fair, Eugenio did not cost Lincecum a win last year, it was the fault of the idiot who put him out there.

email Matt Cain at findsawaytolose.com

by rxmeister on Mar 21, 2009 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I voted no

I do not enjoy Velez’ brand of baseball.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Mar 20, 2009 10:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This.

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch

by can of corn on Mar 20, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the 13

So they carry 11 pitchers.

Molina
Holm.. Sandoval would be nice to back-up

Lewis
Rowand
Schierholtz
Winn…maybe traded mid-season?

Frandsen
Ishikawa
Renteria
Sandoval
Aurilia…the guy is solid but if he cracks he’s gone for youth
Uribe..ho-hum.
Guzman…his bat is too enticing..otherwise s/b Burriss

by daniel9 on Mar 20, 2009 11:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

With 11 pitchers, they should have 14 position players.

I have to say—even though I’m sure it will not be a popular thing to say—that I’ve not been impressed with Nate Schierholtz. I think for him to be a productive outfielder for the Giants, Schierholtz must hit for power. This is something I’ve yet to see from him—not even a hint of power, really, at the big league level. Mostly what I see from Schierholtz is a little Boggsian flick-swing poke into left field. I don’t see him really pulling and driving the ball at all.

So, with Schierholtz, what I’m seeing is: no power, no plate discipline and mediocre-to-weak defense. Is he out of options? If he’s not, then I think he should be back in Fresno working on his power and on his plate discipline. Otherwise I see another Todd Linden type.

Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??

by tobias on Mar 20, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

2008: In 75 ABs with SF ’O8: SLG .493, in AAA SLG .594. Minors career SLG: 518. In 2009 ST (sss) 16 ABs, 1 HR, SLG .563 , 2BB.

I think he gets really short with his swing in some counts and against some pitchers (the little Boggsian flick you are seeing). But the power is there. I also think he tends to shrink into that flick-swing too often, maybe when he is seeing pitchers for the first time? When his timing is otherwise off? I dunno. In my recollection, his power – like a lot of players – has come in spurts. He is the type to hit 1 HR in 100 abs, and then 4 in a week. I think one can argue that he has to become more consistent with his power (mature? approach? get used to the league/pitchers?) if he wants to be “big league”, but a 300 AVG when the power isn’t there does not seem so bad to me.

co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.

by kennv on Mar 21, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not so much, for me. A .300 AVG with, let’s say 12-15 HR, doesn’t really set him apart from others we already have in the outfield (including CFers!!!1). Except with Nate you don’t get the OBP, the above average defense or the speed. I think the Giants are hoping to see Schierholtz become a productive power hitter, not just another gamerish Aaron Rowand type.

Oh…wait, maybe that’s just me hoping for that.

Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??

by tobias on Mar 22, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want Velez on the team mostly because I want Burriss in the minors where he can start every day.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Now with updates!

by groug on Mar 20, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Stop making sense, this is the Giants.

by out machine on Mar 20, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

why can’t Burriss start everyday in MLs?

by wilriv21 on Mar 20, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he can and probably will.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Mar 20, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Will who is filling out our line card? Hint it’s not Roger Craig.

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 20, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re right. I’m hoping that Burriss can handle the starting 2B job if it’s given to him, but he needs 140+ games in 2009. I don’t have faith that Bochy will give that to him.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 20, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

according to Baggarly it looks like Burriss is winning the everyday job. The Giants love his defense, his offense has continued to improve, and he thinks the acquisition of Sergio Santos for Fresno is more proof that Burriss isn’t going back there. He’s certainly played more innings than Frandsen at second base this spring.

email Matt Cain at findsawaytolose.com

by rxmeister on Mar 21, 2009 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he brakes camp with the big club and starts 5 days a week I can be fine with that. I not sure most other Giants Fans will be but I will be. If he is on the roster to be the utility M.I. for a full season on what might not be a 500 team that is a complete waste.

As for who as logged more innnings just what is their left for Frandsen to show below the MLB level? Not a lot . I view them playing Burriss a lot in spring training as hopeful because he can befiet from the reps.

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 22, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 20, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The whole backup infield/bench situation depresses me. I see Aurilia, Velez, Frandsen, Burris, Uribe, Guzman, et al. and I really can’t predict what they are going to do. I am pretty sure I won’t like the final decisions.

by out machine on Mar 20, 2009 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

On a postive note...

your name will be extremely appropriate next year

Minor White > Ansel Adams

by say hey nation on Mar 20, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably every year

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.

by baetown415 on Mar 20, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

if you can ever really predict what an infield will do, please come into my parlor and crush a cup of wine…ull wake up chained in a basement being forced to do all my live drafts in my name…
i could have used you in the mccoven draft, i picked kelly shoppach for god’s sake

[Brayen] of sabean, your semi- conscious potato trip across "to gold winches" democratic pavement will bring Communist pride to the orange and black democratic perfection. your [randay] of Johnson – spy for the Russian Mafia. warn yourselves they warn themselves! you will purchase smirnoff the vodka

by Headhunter Rollins on Mar 20, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Compared to last spring there’s a smorgasbord of infielders and bench players to choose from. Keep in mind that last year, injuries to Vizquel and Frandsen gave us Bobcock and Castillo as starters.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Mar 22, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Regardless of what happens

Jose Castillo is NOT our starting third baseman this year!!!

by Norm Median on Mar 20, 2009 12:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

There is still time

Baseball is a lot like life. The line drives are caught, the squibbles go for base hits. It's an unfair game. -Rod Kanehl

by j14 on Mar 20, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

NOOOOOOOOOO!

by Norm Median on Mar 20, 2009 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

reply fail

by Norm Median on Mar 20, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seeing as how we’re unlikely contenders at best this year, I don’t mind having a bench of old guys while our young guys, specially Burriss and Velez, get more at bats in AAA. They can both work on their fielding and hitting, because frankly, neither of them has gotten that many at-bats in the upper minors. Maybe they can improve and become real contributors. We can make Velez try to steal every time he gets on base, because it’s just AAA when he gets out…The point is having them sit on the bench in MLB might make our MLB team .00002 wins better this season, but it doesn’t get them the reps that hopefully help them improve.

So I voted no.

by Missing Barry on Mar 20, 2009 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think management views us as “unlikely contenders,” and I think any roster moves made between now and Opening Day will reflect that. Even someone like me who clearly views us as the third best team in the division thinks that with the right breaks and one or two moves at the deadline that there’s no reason to think we won’t be in the division race right up until the end.

email Matt Cain at findsawaytolose.com

by rxmeister on Mar 21, 2009 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah. In this division, you don’t want to throw in the towel before the opening bell.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Mar 22, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zito watch today

Wonder why Joel Martinez is 3rd in innings pitched so far.. more than Rule 5 pick Perdomo… it’s still early.

by daniel9 on Mar 20, 2009 1:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Because he's a starter...

…and Perdomo’s a reliever.

Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?

by EliminateMe on Mar 20, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks.

by daniel9 on Mar 20, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Martinez is probaly the 6th or 7th starter on the Franchises depth chart. So working him is realy important.

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 22, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it's a contest for the Dave Roberts Endowed Chair...

…that is, the 5th OF/PR position, I’m inclined at this point to go with Torres. He and Velez may both be AAAA players but Torres might possibly have some baseball intelligence, which I’m confident Velez does not.

Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?

by EliminateMe on Mar 20, 2009 1:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I second this motion on the intelligence level of Velez

by dogdays on Mar 20, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The size of Roberts’ penis really shouldn’t influence who makes the team.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Mar 22, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

BODY BIAS!

by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 22, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Velez is scared of baseball

by The Double Deuce on Mar 20, 2009 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Sadly, baseball has no reason to be scared of Velez.

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch

by can of corn on Mar 20, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You meant “baseballs” have no reason.

amiright????

by zuma420 on Mar 21, 2009 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gameday?

why do they make it so hard to find? I only got box score. Any ideas?
gameday thread a possibility too…

adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson

by foothillsfan on Mar 20, 2009 1:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2009_03_20_sfnmlb_chamlb_1

I just keep the last Gameday link and navigate from there.

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch

by can of corn on Mar 20, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanx

adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson

by foothillsfan on Mar 20, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Personally

I would much much MUCH rather have Velez than Uribe..

by bondslegend on Mar 20, 2009 2:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

im rooting velez to be on the roster cuz he’s super fun to watch. also, hes more a weapon off the bench than torres, aurilia, or uribe because of his speed. pinch run late in games, pinch hit to get an important inning started, his speed can help the offense more than aurilia or uribe’s bat. plus he’s got a little bit of pop (warning: pop may seem inflated do to small stature). i say keep either aurilia or uribe and than let said player go when jesus is resurrected from aaa, he can back up third and velez can back up 2nd, than we can have no annoying defensive subs at the end of games, wait thats bad…..but this would sure make games funner to watch.

by shaolinironlion on Mar 20, 2009 2:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What is this pop of which you speak?

He’s got 28 career HRs in the minors, and half those came in one fluky season at Augusta.

Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?

by EliminateMe on Mar 20, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

line drives to the wall kind of pop, you know…… giants kind of pop. i think he could hit 30 line drives a season.

by shaolinironlion on Mar 21, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to avoid unintended confusion should we just call that “fizzy”?

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 22, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or WTP?

Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt

by Giant among Angels on Mar 22, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or “Fizzle” , once they are L.O.B. and bat in no runs?

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 22, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

right… pinch run the guy that gets picked off all the time. Good idea, d00d.

by zuma420 on Mar 21, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is a tough one

Simply put, Velez is a basically horrible baseball player, and yet, he’s a very interesting player – a total puzzle. I really don’t know.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Mar 20, 2009 3:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I blame Kruk and Kuip

I mean, I love the guys, but they were on an all-out Eugenio Velez smear campaign last season. Kevin Frandsen can swing for the fences when all the Giants need is a ground ball behind the runner and he’s a “gamer,” Rich Aurilia’s errors are due to bad hops and grumpy scorekeepers, but every negative thing Velez did (during a 90-loss season where the only real priority should have been giving inexperienced players like Velez, um, experience) was a federal crime punishable by a fierce caning from Bill Mueller and/or Robby Thompson.

Yes, the guy has made a few Ruben Rivera-esque mental errors on the field and on the bases (which surely kept the Giants out of the postseason last year), but besides his speed (don’t forget, Velez has stolen 150 bases in 380 games with the Giants’ organization) Velez is also the owner of one of the team’s strongest throwing arms along with a fearlessness at the plate in the ninth inning that can’t be ignored.

We’re not asking the guy to be the team captain, he’d be a pinch runner/hitter who occasionally spells an outfielder or second baseman from time to time. It’s amazing that so many Giants fans cry all day for young talent, and disparage said talent when it doesn’t perform like Evan Longoria or Tim Lincecum. Of course, if Kruk and Kuip (especially Kuip, who obviously doesn’t like Velez at all for whatever reason) stopped harping on Velez as if he were trying to sabotage the team he might get more of a chance.

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 20, 2009 4:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well the way Eugenio took 1st pitches at the beginning of the season, I don’t blame Kruk for bitchin’. It was kind of bush league.

I mean Velez has a lot to learn still, plus he has 1 tool going for him, and that’s speed. The other 4 are: getting picked off, misreading flyballs just to mess with Lincecum’s Cy Young hopes, making people hold their breaths when catching a routine popfly, and having a cast iron skillet for a glove.

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Mar 20, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup.

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch

by can of corn on Mar 20, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with BASG that some of the Velez criticism is unfair. Like I said earlier in the thread, if he screws up in the outfield is it his fault or the fault of the manager who sent him out there with little or no outfield experience? It was just a stupid move to fill his lineup out with all righthanders against Randy Johnson, even though Randy wasn’t dominating lefties last year like he was in the past. And even if you do this, why is he still in the game late when you have a one run lead? As for all the pickoffs, lots of Giants were getting picked off last year. He’s faster than everyone and gets better jumps when he steals than anyone else does. Freddie Lewis gets horrible jumps when he steals bases, and most of the successful ones came from his pure speed and less than perfect throws from the catcher.
As for the other criticism about Giants’ fans, while he’s right, that’s ALL fans, not just Giants’ fans. We want to see the kids, but after the first back to back 0 for 4’s we give up on them. The team is the same way. They called up Ryan Roehlinger last year, said he would be the regular third baseman, and then gave up on him after 20 atbats.

email Matt Cain at findsawaytolose.com

by rxmeister on Mar 21, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lewis isn’t the best base runner around but he’s definitely better than Velez.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Mar 21, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I blame Velez

For being not very good last season.

by chilibean_3 on Mar 20, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All I know is neither K nor K had a bad word to say about Jose Castillo last year, even though he was more boring to watch than an episode of “Jon and Kate Plus 8.”

I know Velez has some major flaws in his game, but since the Giants are rebuilding I thought they might like some upside to go with all those over-30 free agents. I guess Andres Torres is a Puerto Rican 31, so he’d fit right in.

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 20, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL GIANTZ R OLD!

by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 20, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

YOU IZNT LYIN!!! LMAO

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 20, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

GIANTS BRASS

by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 20, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

SABEZ SHULD SINE JULIO FRANCO!!!

email Matt Cain at findsawaytolose.com

by rxmeister on Mar 21, 2009 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

WE SHOULDA GOT NOMAAHHHHH!!! NO ONE DENIES THIS!!!

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 21, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about that

When Velez came up during the end of the year, KnK were pretty compimentary of him.

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by Natto on Mar 20, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re right, but they went above and beyond earlier on. It seemed personal.

I guess I just don’t see the harm in giving Velez a shot this season. If it doesn’t work out it’s not like he’ll have an important enough role to really make a difference, and I’d hate to see the guy become a 10-homer/40 SB guy for another team. I think at 31 we already know what we’re getting with Torres.

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 20, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Velez seemed like a different player when he came back up at the end of the season. After his hot spring there were a couple of incidents where he came off as cocky. I remember one time he was yelling at Bocock for taking a fly ball that Velez felt was his. It’s likely that Kruk and Kuip picked up on this through observation and/or interactions with him. As old ballplayers, the they probably were saying “Who does this little prick think he is, Ty Cobb?”

After what was likely a humbling trip back to the minors, he seemed to be more serious about his game, doing things right and learning the fundamentals. K&K probably saw this and have cut him more slack.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Mar 22, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember too the cockiness of him from early in the season. One of the reasons I’ve turned sour on him.

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by WalrusMan on Mar 22, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The mixture of confidence and swagger is a good thing in my eyes. But I agree that he did seem a little too cocky for a rook, which turned me of of him as well. But if he was a cocky-bastard that produced, then we wouldn’t have much to gripe about.

Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt

by Giant among Angels on Mar 22, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it ain’t bragging if it’s true

I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.

by oldjacket on Mar 23, 2009 6:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But if he was a cocky-bastard that produced, then we wouldn’t have much to gripe about.

Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt

by Giant among Angels on Mar 23, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Announcers, and fans in general tend to be more forgiving of guys who simply aren’t that good. But when a guy who obviously has tools can’t master the mental aspect of the game or is undone by a psychological weakness, they tend to get picked on more.

If you think about it, that’s why everyone ragged on Pedro Feliz – an obviously talented hitter who couldn’t lay off pitches he couldn’t hit.

I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.

by oldjacket on Mar 20, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I could be way off base, but it could be an attitude thing.

I always took it as them ragging on players that wouldn’t listen to said advice. Most ballplayers have flaws, but if it’s a mental thing then some can work hard & overcome them. When I hear Kruk & Kuip rag on someone, I assume it’s because the guy just isn’t trying to improve. Again, I could be off base.

Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.

by ResDog on Mar 20, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

With the TV muted, He's still the same.

So you’re basically saying that K&K have input into who makes the team and/or gets PT. I don’t buy it. Maybe they do or do not like his play, but it’s common sense that Sabean or Bochy don’t contact them prior to filling in the scorecard.

Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt

by Giant among Angels on Mar 20, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I’m saying that’s why Giants fans have seized on this idea that Velez is like a retarded child who doesn’t really know the rules of the game. I actually think Bochy and Sabean like Velez more than the average fan, and for that I’m grateful.

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 20, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, but it’s still irrelevant to the question of him making the team or not.

Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt

by Giant among Angels on Mar 20, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But it’s not irrelevant to a poll on a fan website.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Mar 22, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like my boy tells me: If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it is a rat.

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by marcello on Mar 21, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I voted yes

I guess I am just surprised Eugenio Velez gets ripped so badly by Giants fans when he’s got upside and makes the minimum. I’m all for bitching about Zito — and enjoy doing so — because his best years are behind him and he makes more in one month than most of us will probably make in our entire lives.

I’d take a guy like Velez who makes mistakes but has great potential and athletic ability over a guy who’s safe but has a lower ceiling.

Since I’m not exactly confident the Giants are World Series contenders, I’d rather have Velez and Rich Aurilia on the team than Aurilia and Andres Torres (31 and never done anything in the Majors besides suck) or Juan Uribe (supposedly 29 and probably less than a year away from retirement).

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 20, 2009 10:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Velez will be 27 in May, so while I basically agree with you, I’m not sure how much better he’s going to get.

email Matt Cain at findsawaytolose.com

by rxmeister on Mar 21, 2009 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would think the same thing if he had the same amount of pro experience as the average 27-year-old. It’s not just about age either, as Jose Castillo was 27 last year but had negative upside, if there is such a thing.

I can’t help it, I just see a spark in Velez’s game that I like. I could be wrong, but I’ve been backing Velez ever since he ran into Nate Schierholtz in Spring Training two years ago (a play which makes a lot more sense, now that we’ve seen Velez play a while). The only Giant I’ve ever booed is Alex Sanchez, after he totally mailed it in one game when I was in the centerfield bleachers, including a play where he refused to charge a sinking liner and flung the ball back to the infield nonchalantly as a guy was rounding third on his way to score, then raised his arms in anger at the booing crowd as if to say “What do you want me to do?” (I think he was released about 10 minutes after the game ended). Until I see concrete evidence that Velez has that kind of attitude, I’ll always be in his corner.

I don’t like seeing guys get picked off, but at least Velez gets on base. I don’t like seeing errors, but at least Velez has range and a great arm. I wouldn’t want the guy starting and batting leadoff, but I still have hopes Velez can someday put it all together. There’s no guarantee he will, but what OF in the Giants’ system is a sure thing?

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 21, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Velez...yes Uribe...no

"It hurts sooooooo... good!"

by Baybear on Mar 21, 2009 10:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No. As I've said before about Velez, "you can't fix stupid."

The boy ain’t got the head for the game. He could possibly learn to do some of the physical tasks of baseball better, but the ceiling on his ability isn’t his body; it’s his lack of baseball mentality. I am not talking about his brief emergency appearances in the outfield; I mean his clueless and bizarre random behavior around 2nd base when the ball is grounded to the outfield. He just doesn’t get the game. The Mayor would like to exercise a veto.

Forsan et heac olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.

by Mayor of 311 on Mar 21, 2009 2:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Did you feel that strongly after he came back up late last season? To me, he seemed like a much different player the second time around.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Mar 22, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All this (including BASG posts above) is talking around the most single valid point. What is acceptable production and risk/reward on a 90+ loss team is not the same as on a 80-90 loss team. And this is THE point with Zorak Von Ironglove. He is admittedly border line in these categories on a 80-90 loss team.

Add to that the NL West is a wide open division with only 2 squads remotely capable (though not really probable) to run was way with the division by August and Velez is the cannery in the Giants coal mine. As the season progresses and if the Giants are not out of things then tolerance for his brain cramps go way down for what is basically one of the oldest members of "the kids".

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 22, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I should clarify my thoughts on Velez. If he’s still dropping fly balls and getting picked off once every 5-10 games he should be sent packing, especially if there’s any validity to the rumor that he has a poor attitude. If he’s screwing up all the time and it’s obvious his teammates are sick of having him around, he deserves the Dave Roberts treatment.

That said, since he was responsible for more than his share of last year’s “Top Giants Offensive Moments” (granted, when a team hits 94 homers the entire season that kind of list won’t be too long) I’m willing to give him a shot. Not a starting role, but as a 5th OF/pinch runner/desperation 2B he’s the best option and has a chance of improving. There’s no guarantee he’ll get better, but I’d take a chance on Velez over either Andres Torres or John Bowker.

If the starting rotation is as good as we hope, the Giants should be able to easily get by with 11 pitchers, which means there would be five non-Holm spots available on the bench. Here’s who I think will end up filling those five bench spots, based partly on positional need and partly due to knowing how Bochy and Sabean think:

1. Schierholtz (no options; hopefully he can get the ball in the air once in a while)
2. Frandsen (KNBR always needs guests!)
3. Aurilia (Ditto, plus I think he’s Sabean’s nephew or Godson or something)
4. Uribe (The Giants have always coveted him, and he’s a name)
5. Velez (doesn’t strike out as much as Bowker, and he’s done more in the Majors than Torres)

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 22, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I get most of what you’re saying. I have been known to get rather crotchety with fans that have think 20 PA is a good sample size myself. There is a lot here we do agree on.

As for guys Aurillia & Uribe a lot of it is about having the LHP option along with keeping "A" ball players off the 25 man roster tell at least half way through the season. Hey a guy can hope.

Velez vs Bowker for a 25 man spot is a non item at this point. Bowker disparately needs the AAA play time. If it’s just those two this April it’s a complete non contest.

Velez vs Torres is a discussion directly on point. The consensus here is Rowand’s glove in center is shaky. I agree with that. Torress has a decent reputation with a glove. Velez glove, well let us just say it needs to be hidden. If you figure the team is losing 90+ games running Velez out there is not only reasonable but probably smart. If you think the Giants should loss less than 85 games in a wide open division and knowing Velez still has an option there is no real reason to assume Velez must head north.

Seeing if Torres can keep up what he has been doing while Velez gets regular play time in AAA then the Giants end up having a ready replacement for Torress if/when, he proves to be not worthy of the 5th OF spot. It is a legit plan for a team that is thinking it might have less the 85 losses in an a wide open division. I just can’t get worked up if things shake out that way.

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 22, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Rowand concern is a valid one, but if they’re paying the guy $12 million he should be able to play above average centerfield for 150+ games. Hopefully Willie Mays’ recent defensive advice will do Aaron some good.

I think Velez deserves a spot on the roster right now, with Andres Torres in Fresno waiting in the wings. I wouldn’t be upset about Randy Winn playing a little backup centerfield if it came to that, although maybe I’d have a different opinion if I could afford to go to Scottsdale and watch some Spring Training games (and Torres) for myself.

From what Andy Baggarly just wrote Torres deserves the spot over Velez, but I think people get way too excited about Spring Training stats. I have a sneaking suspicion Torres would end up being the next Calvin Murray once the season starts.

by Bay Area Sports Guy on Mar 22, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

By no means am I fully advocating for Torres.

As to your two counter points:

1) No one should expect over a 300 OBP Torres or Velez . Torres’ entire possible value is to be able pinch run well and if he can provide a very sure glove in CF. The double switch options and ability to make a late game 1 run lead for the handful outs needed to end a game can be the next best thing to a finding a real hitter.

2) What Errant Thrown’ is paid really is immaterial outside of free agent and trading seasons. If he can’t provide something between the line then he can’t provide it. It’s a lesson someone brought up under a Steinberger front office would know very well.

To me the biggest danger I see from Torres on the 25 man is a scenario were a healthy Nate has less starts and play time the Torres by June. And that would be more mangers choices then his fault.

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 25, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh .brother..

I spelled Steinbrenner wrong when addressing your 2nd counter point. My apologies.

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Mar 25, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He does intrigue me, but learning about his lack of training does make me feel a little softer about his errors both offensively and defensively. It also makes me think that despite his advancing age, he should probably spend another year in the minors and let people who have nothing left to prove in the minors (Frandsen) take the roster spots. I am also mildly bemused and annoyed by his arrogant air. “Really Eugenio? Really?”

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by Rorealis on Mar 21, 2009 6:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs