Pudge?
doesnt make a ton of sense to me. thoughts?
almost 3 years ago
sam23
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It makes some sense
I mean, I like Steve Holm and all, but Ivan would be a better backup to Molina. If (and when) Molina get injured, Ivan would be a better guy to put out there for a few weeks. He also can play 1st base if needed and wouldn’t be a bad pinch hitter. As far as I know, his defense is still fairly good, especially if he’s only a part-timer.
Don’t overpay. Nothing more than $1M/1 year with some minor incentives, but it might be worth it.
Lastly, I’m thinking “Pudge meet Buster. Buster meet Pudge.” Couldn’t hurt, right?
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Mar 13, 2009 9:24 PM PDT reply actions
Could he replace Holm and Aurilia’s roles? If so, that would allow them to carry 12 pitchers and still keep all the utility infielders them seem to want to keep.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Word is Pudge is not a great mentor
That’s what kept coming up when it was suggested that the Red Sox sign Pudge instead of Varitek to be the veteran C who can groom the catching prospects. Related to that: Pudge isn’t keen about being a part-timer, though maybe the gratitude for having a job would mitigate that.
Finally— it was a small sample size, but Pudge was really bad for the Yankees in part-time duty last year (.219/.257/.323).
If He Is Cheap Enough What Would Be So Bad About This?
I am not buying that the Giants are actually thinking about promising infield time as well as backup catcher time. However, if he is willing to be exclusively a backup catcher and willing to come cheap enough ($1M or less like Aurilia and Uribe) I have no problems with signing him to replace Steve Holm.
Meh
I’d rather see Sandoval getting occasional time behind the plate (I’m skeptical of Posey being ready to start next season), and that seems more likely with Holm than a Former Allstar backup. But, whatever.
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If Sandoval is the starting 3B I doubt he will get any occasional time behind the plate
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 13, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
We'll see how long that lasts.
Before long, I think they’ll be looking for excuses both to move him off 3rd and to get Aurilia at bats.
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You Just Can't Let Go Of Your Hate Can You?
by giantsrainman on Mar 14, 2009 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions
If by "hate"
you mean the knowledge borne from the experience of watching the Giants’ handling of defensively challenged rookies and Proven Veteran backups… no.
At least, not until there’s some more turnover among the decision makers.
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I am also very much a non-believer in him playing 3B (I am also filled with hate), but when they move him from there, he is going to wind up at 1B.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 14, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I think 1B is only MLB position he is going to be able to play, so he better hit enough to stick there
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 14, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Doesn’t make the most sense, but if he’s signing purely as backup catcher then that’s fine. I really doubt that Sandoval is going to get any time there, when he’s not playing 3B he’ll be at 1B, and i’m not bothered by replacing Holm. Absolutely no interest in him playing 1B or 3B though, and we seem to have plenty of other options for those positions.
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OTOH
Trading Molina might be a whole lot more palatable to the brass with an allstar replacement on staff.
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You usually want your backup catcher positioned squarely on the bench, ready to come in as necessary, so I am thinking pinch hitting with Pudge would not happen. And, since pinch running for your Starting catcher, Molina, seems to happen 3-4 times a week, I doubt Boulder Head will want Pudge out in the field and possibly unable to come in as a replacement catcher.
Proud supporter of the Fightin' Hydrants.
by Little Napoleon on Mar 14, 2009 4:29 AM PDT reply actions
I think the fact that they’d have an emergency catcher in Sandoval would give Bochy more flexibilty in using a guy like Pudge.
If he’s starting at 1B against a tough righty and you need to PR for Benjie late in the game, Pudge could strap on the tools of ignorance and Ishi could come in for defense at 1B.
If Pudge has already PH and Benjie gets hurt, Pablo can finish the game behind the dish and Uribe, Frandsen or whoever can come in and man the hot corner.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
but it’s more fun when the “emergency catcher” is someone like Pedro Feliz! C’mon wouldn’t you like to see hmmm… Randy Winn behind the plate some 18 inning game?
I think I read somewhere that Frandsen would be the emergency backup. Besides, everyone knows Winn is our emergency 3B!
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
The phase “disaster quarterback” floated up from the recesses of my memory after reading all this… You know, the running back who threw 4 or 5 passes one year in a high school program that ran a lot of trick plays. The guy who comes in when all three real QB and the punter are mangled.
And I’m really tired of Winn blocking the JuggerNate.
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by S.F. Giangst on Mar 14, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn’t hear the game that Holm caught against the Angels a few days ago, but I followed on the cellphone and it seemed like the Angels were trying to steal a base on every pitch. Is Holm that bad back there, and if so, has it gotten around mlb? If so, then I can understand the interest in Pudge. I agree that Pudge makes sense as backup catcher, but I don’t want to see him around the infield, in anything other than an emergency situation like we saw in 2007 with Pedro Feliz behind the plate. Don’t forget that the Giants’ sat down with Rowand after the season and decided he burnt out and needs more days off, and if they decided a 31 year old centerfielder is playing too much, it would follow that they’ve made the same determination about a 34 year old catcher. Playing Pudge over Steve Holm twice a week makes alot of sense. And what if Bengie got hurt?
Brian Sabean: continuing to monitor the CC and Manny situations
I don’t really understand all this 1B talk, let alone 3B talk. He’s played 7 games at 1B IN HIS CAREER. Sure it’s 1B, but it takes some quality to start at 1B, and the infield is a tough place. Not saying it’s tougher than C but it’s different.
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I don't think it's that hard for a catcher to transition to 1B, it happens all the time
I can’t think of a catcher who tried to make the transition and failed.
I think the real issue is that Holm may be a better hitter than Pudge at this point (which isn’t saying much, because Rodriguez has been really, really bad the last couple seasons).
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HIs Arm Was His Only Limitation
He doesn’t need one at first. You have been shown to be dead wrong on this so how about just admitting it.
by giantsrainman on Mar 14, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
One example = dead wrong?
In baseball, only the umpire’s ruling are hard and fast, everything else has exceptions.
My original point, “I don’t think it’s that hard for a catcher to transition to 1B, it happens all the time” is hardly refuted by a single example, particularly of an old catcher on the downside of his career who was reticent to make the transition in the first place. “It’s not that hard” doesn’t mean is succeeds every time, it means failures are uncommon-to-rare. Also, “I can’t think of a catcher who tried to make the transition and failed” merely means that I can’t think of one off the top of my head, not that it’s never happened in the history of the game.
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Bench went to 3rd, Torre went to 3rd, Berra went to the outfield, and Piazza tried to go to first. Those guys were all studs. Any others? It seems to be a pretty short list of catchers who transitioned anywhere other than ph-dh after a long career.
We have JT Snow!!
isn’t that what we’re supposed to say when we move someone to first base? He will make Pudge a Gold Glover
Brian Sabean: continuing to monitor the CC and Manny situations
There are guys who transitioned relatively early in their career, like Craig Biggio and Todd Zeile. If you reeeeeeally want to stretch things, Carlos Delgado was a catcher when he was first drafted.
I know Mike Ivie switched from catcher to first at some point in his career, but he was a little before my time so I don’t know how successful he was.
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One Example Is All You Said You Couldn't Think Of
Plus as pointed out below there just are not many who have gone from Catcher to 1B and played at 1B for a extendted period of time sucessfully. You are the one that is guilty of not providing any evidence to support your claims. The way you stated your claims only required one example to disprove them.
by giantsrainman on Mar 14, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Well Sabertooth's Post Was Below When I Typed
But I should have remembered that my post would show up below his when it posted.
by giantsrainman on Mar 14, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
If I’d said “never,” it would require only on contrary example. I stopped well short of never.
As for example of catcher playing other positions, where should I start?
Piazza, though he didn’t stay there in the long run, played more games at 1B than I’d ever expect Pudge to have to play as a reserve. Biggio, of course, transferred to 2B, Mike Sweeney and Carlos Delgado both moved to first early in their careers. Victor Martinez and Russell Martin both do defensive doubt duty, as did Paul LoDuca when he could still hit/juice enough to justify it. Scott Hatteburg was (save one appearance at 3rd) exclusively a catcher for 8 years before joining the A’s and moving to 1B full time.
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Your Statement Was
I don’t think it’s that hard for a catcher to transition to 1B. It happens all the time. I can’t think of a catcher who tried to make the transition and failed.
Proof has been provided that it is not hard at all to "think of a catcher who tried to make the transition and failed". Upon hearing this proof you didn’t acknowledge that you were mistaken but rather attempted to dismiss this proof. Bottom line, you were "Dead Wrong" on this support point for your position. It just is not hard at all to find an example of such failure.
Now, could you still be right in your positon that it is "not hard for a catcher to transition to 1B"? Sure, but you also have not even provided much evidence for your other support point "it happens all the time". Until I see some significant evidence here I am forced to think you are just trying to sell your opinion as if it was fact.
by giantsrainman on Mar 14, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Players transitioning from catcher to elsewhere early in their careers isn’t analogous to what you’re suggesting for I-Rod. In my example above I think even Torre is a stretch, he was mid-career when he went to 3rd. Old catchers who can’t hit are out of the game. Old catchers who can hit generally either remain catchers, like Fisk, or become pinch hitters, like Smokey Burgess.
ld catchers who can’t hit are out of the game. Old catchers who can hit generally either remain catchers, like Fisk, or become pinch hitters, like Smokey Burgess.
That’s a different issue. Like I wrote above, the problem with Pudge is that he can’t hit, so moving him around the infield is rather pointless.
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Piazza was really a catcher at one point?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Mar 14, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Your Statement Was
I don’t think it’s that hard for a catcher to transition to 1B. It happens all the time. I can’t think of a catcher who tried to make the transition and failed.
Proof has been provided that it is not hard at all to “think of a catcher who tried to make the transition and failed”. Upon hearing this proof you didn’t acknowledge that you were mistaken but rather attempted to dismiss this proof. Bottom line, you were “Dead Wrong” on this support point for your position. It just is not hard at all to find an example of such failure.
Now, could you still be right in your positon that it is “not hard for a catcher to transition to 1B”? Sure, but you also have not even provided much evidence for your other support point “it happens all the time”. Until I see some significant evidence here I am forced to think you are just trying to sell your opinion as if it was fact.
If the Giants want/need Pudge there is something wrong.
They should be all over NYY to get Swisher…who is younger, a far better defender at 1st and has more power, can take walks and is apparently a good teammate.
Surely trading some spare parts for Swisher is better than signing Pudge.
I just think Pudge wont make a good 1b and he reportedly was hated by the pitching staff in Detroit for being a bad game caller/receiver…which would take one of the Giants strengths and potentially cause disruption.
Just asking out of interest for you Giants fans…what do you think of the idea of trading Zito for an good offensive player on a bad contract?
I’m thinking Michael Young, Carlos Lee or maybe Alfonso Soriano?
OR
Trading Sanchez/Lowry for a player apporaching making big bucks on a small team…maybe Dan Uggla?
"If the Giants want/need Pudge there is something wrong."
Pretty much this. The only rationale I see for this happening is if Molina gets traded for a decent third baseman and Pudge is backing up Sandocal behind the plate.
Hmm an interesting point but I think that would be a sideways or very bad move…Molina is a pretty good veteran catcher to a mostly young pitching rotation.
Sandoval is a valued potential power hitting 3b whos young and cheap.
The Giants with Sandoval are set at 3rd its power at 1st and LF they need so imo trading Molina to put Sandoval at a position that will age him and sap his power is pointless.
If it's around $1 million
I’d rather have Pudge then Steve Holm. I don’t think Holm is even a decent major league back-up. He’s a minor league type.
This is an awesome idea
If Molina, Holm, Sandoval and Rodriguez all make the team, the Giants will have nearly half a ton of catching.
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