If Spring Training Ended Today, Which Position Players Make The Team?
by Goofus on Mar 11, 2009 12:23 PM PDT
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PrintI was sitting alone in my room rosterbating and thought you might want to see the results. We actually haven't had a roster discussion in a while and Dave Roberts was released, Josh Phelps was demoted and the Giants have talked more than once about an 11-man pitching staff. This all changes the landscape, so here's my guess at who would make the team if ST ended right about now, you funk soul brother.
Discalimer: I know it's ridiculously early to start basing decions on ST performance when some of these guys have had only a handful of ABs, but suck it.
Starters:
C - Moilna - This is pretty much a "no brainer" (aka "howtheyscored")
1B - Ishikawa - Hasn't kept up the torrid HR pace from the first game, but his early spring has been solid with a .904 OPS. The question of whether Bochy would let him hit against LHP still remains.
2B - Guzman - The surprise starter! All he does is hit. I'm digging the 1.458 OPS. After hearing Bochy talk somewhat glowingly about him on the radio, I think the team will decide they need his bat in the lineup and be willing to live with suspect defense. 2B might be a better fit for him as he can knock balls down and still have time to pick the ball up and make the throw to first. (a la Ray Durham)
SS - Renteria - Schulman says he's looking fluid on defense. Goofus says we won't regret this signing.
3B - Sandoval - By all accounts, he's been working hard on his defense and hasn't embaraassed himself. Body bias folks can suck it. The more ABs he gets, the more it appears the Pandamania late last season wasn't a fluke. He hits and hits and when that's done, he hits some more. This guy is going to be pretty much everyone's favorite Giant (non-Lincecum division.)
LF - Lewis - I'm still glad they didn't sign Manny.
CF - Rowand - another "howtheyscored"
RF - Winn - the really slow start would be a bigger concern if this was one of the kids, but this is Randy Winn we're talking about, who's one of the most consistent hitters in baseball.
The Bench:
OF - Schierholtz - I hope Bochy uses him a lot in RF and moves Winn around the outfield to spell other starters and take adavantage of matchups. The Juggernate has been limited by injuries, but the team really needs to find out of he's a big-league starter this season.
OF/IF - Velez -I don't think he makes the team if Roberts isn't cut. The "5th OF" role might be perfect for him as he can do a lot of things (PH, PR, OF, IF) a little bit and won't be asked to do too much of one thing.
C - Holm - Every team needs a back up catcher and a guy who could walk into the Acme Chop House, order a beer and have no one know who he is.
IF - Aurlia - Reports of his demise early last season were exagerrated. He's done nothing this spring to lose his job as RHH 1B/PH.
IF - Frandsen - Frandsen's start at SS yesterday has me thinking the team is looking at him as a utility infielder. If I'm wrong about Guzman, Frandsen will start at 2B, but I think he's well-suited to play all over the infield and do whatever's asked of him.
and the final spot goes to....
IF - Uribe - although Rohlinger has insalled and is running 9THINNINGDINGERZ.EXE., Frandsen's shortcomings at SS and Uribe's 17.4 HRs per season over the last five years gives him the nod.
This roster leaves the team without much LHH off the bench, but with a lot of switch hitters and LHH in the starting lineup, it's probably less of a big deal that it usually would be.
Feel free to chime in with your thoughts.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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1B – Ishikawa – Hasn’t kept up the torrid HR pace from the first game, but his early spring has been solid with a .904 OPS. The question of whether Bochy would let him hit against RHP still remains.
I think you mean LHP.
a wise man once said a misquote is a mistake against ones own depth, as it is to one’s mind as it is to own’s creation.
by CrispinGloversBalls on Mar 11, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m skeptical as well, but like I said, if he keeps hitting, the team’s need for offense will prevail.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Guzman at 2B, Renteria at SS, and Sandoval at 3B would be by far the worst defensive infield in MLB.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 11, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, it’s not like replacing Guzman with Frandsen would suddenly make it the best. We lived with Durham middlin’ defense all those years because the guy was an asset. Kent’s defense was hardly inspiring. 2B is a position where a guy’s bat can speak louder than his glove and that’s ok.
I’ll be honest and say I have no idea where Guzman’s defensive shortcomings at 3B lie, but can’t help but think 2B would be easier:
- You’re further from the batter so have more time to react
- The throw to first is easier
- There’s more time to make up for a clank or bobble and still get the runner at 1st
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
In his 566 minor league games, 106 were at 2B and 8 at SS.
I think he played mostly 3B in the VWL, where he was THE MVP OF THE LEAGUE!
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Some of Guzman’s defense stats in the minors at 2B aren’t very pretty.
http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?pl=461882
Sample size and playing level context should be used accordingly as well. But, his 2007 season at 2B looks like it was pretty ugly.
The throw to first is easier
{obligatory Chuck Knoblauch joke}
Tell that to Chuck Knoblauch!
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
Little know fact:
Steve Sax was so impressed with teammate Orel Hershiser’s perfomance on the ’88 Dodgers that he named is first son after him.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Dodgers
The Dodgers used to be good at giving Orel Sax.
Supposedly the old Dodger third baseman Pedro Guerrero, when asked what he thought about when he played third base in pressure situations, replied, “I pray they don’t hit the ball to me. And I pray they don’t hit it to Sax, either.”
gotta love Pedro Guerrero
anybody who has O.J. Simpson rescuing a woman for him probably has some problems.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 12, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
From Wikipedia , where all truth is born...
In September, 1999, Guerrero was arrested for trying to buy 33 pounds of cocaine from an undercover agent. In June, 2002, he was acquitted of drug conspiracy charges after his attorney argued his low IQ prevented him from understanding that he had agreed to a drug deal. 1
There’s an elementary school named after him in Mesa , AZ…approximately half a mile north of some pretty cracked – out neighborhoods.
OK if I adopt Randy Johnson?
"What kind of a stupid question is that?"
by victor frankenstein on Mar 15, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions
eh, 23 pounds of coke, we’ve all been there
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 15, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s out of jail and out on bail and that’s the way it goes.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Mar 15, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Vision Dreams Of Passion
And all the while I think of Yu.
OK if I adopt Randy Johnson?
"What kind of a stupid question is that?"
by victor frankenstein on Mar 17, 2009 6:23 AM PDT up reply actions
A very strange reaction…
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Mar 17, 2009 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Eh Durham wasn’t all that bad. He was a total of 1.5 UZR during the years he was on the Giants.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Yeah, I don’t think he was “all that bad”, hence my choice of the word “middlin’”. My oservtation during his time here:
- good range on balls in the air
- less than average range on balls on the ground
- decent at turning a double play
- average arm strength, above average accuracy
The thing I rememeber most about his defense is how many ground balls he failed to field cleanly, but still had time to get the out at first. because of the short throw I always used to think his error rate would double if he was playing anywhere but 2B.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Who cares
Odds are teams are not going to be getting too many hits off of our starting pitchers. The hits our bullpen give up usually end up in the bleachers. So all we have to do is count on our starters to strike out 20-25 hitters a game, score 3-4 runs and we’ll be OK.
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Found this for any Homestar Runner Fans, xanthan gum!
by paboperfecto on Mar 12, 2009 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions
It hurts to a similar degree, but not “the same”. It depends on the scoring environment. If you’re a high-scoring club, you can leak runs on defense.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Mar 12, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Environment does matter, but I’m mostly saying that: “We can play shitty defensive player at [position] because it’s a hitters position!” doesn’t really hold true. Losing runs on defense is still losing runs, regardless of the position.
Yeah, but a “hitter’s position” is not as likely to have as many chances to screw the pooch defensively, right?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Those pooches are usually pre-screwed.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Mar 12, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
BIP distribution does vary between positions, but I’m not sure what a ‘hitters position’ is to begin with. It’s a term I often hear thrown around, I mostly assume it means 1B?
I assumed it was the bottom half of that “defensive continuim” or whatever it’s called that we’ve talk about here. SS & C are at the top and 1B & LF are at the bottom. I think 2B is somewhere in the middle, but maybe a little closer to the bottom.
My guess at defensivepremium list:
SS
C
3B
CF
RF
2B
LF
1B
There might be an argument for swapping RF and 2B, but I think RF requires more tools (especially at AT&T)
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Some changes
I would probably rank the importance list as :
SS
C
CF
2B
RF
3B
LF
1B
I guess that’s the same as you, except that I interchanged 2B and 3B. The second baseman is involved in more double plays and has more ground to cover (although admittedly more time to do so).
you have 2B way undervalued
it is more important and more demanding than 3B or any of the outfield positions
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 12, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Being 1/2 Serious
but how dependent on defense will this rotation be? If Guzman is the second coming of..well Jesus (on offense), wouldn’t it be smart to play him on Timmy/RJ/Sanchez starts when they strike everyone out?
Infield defense might not matter that much this year.
2008 #’s. Groundballs/Inning:
Cain 1.02
Lincecum 1.12
Zito 1.23
Sanchez 1.25
Johnson 1.28
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
Cool stat. Is there some standard of what percentages of groundballs go to 2B? I’m guessing SS gets the most, and 3B/2B are pretty close to each other, followed by 1B and P. On this team, 2B is probably only going to get 2 or 3 groundballs a game.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Link
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/infield-defense-mdash-back-to-basics/
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
that graphs seems to say that 3B defense is just as important as 2B, but doesn’t have enough players that can meet it’s demands.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
I don't know if it says that
It seems natural to me groundballs hit to 3B are less likely to result in an out than to 2B.
- Since 3B is closer to the hitter, there is less time to react and less time to range left or right.
- The longer throw means more time to beat it out (same reason people aim to the 3B side when trying to bunt for a hit)
This goes back to why I think 3B is harder to play than 2B and why Jesus would do better there.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
cool chart, I mainly watch the gap between blue and red
it shows how smart 2Bs play deep, and retreat into the outfield for many grounders, so less get through. Can’t do that on the left side.
I would be happy if Guzman earned the 2B job and did something with it.
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by foothillsfan on Mar 12, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Intriquing implications?
Does this chart show that third basemen are so concerned about the ball hit down the line for extra bases that they play too close to the line? Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but to me the chart shows that if third basemen played an extra step or two off the line, they would make more plays.
Remember how David Bell played WAY off the line? I felt that did indeed help his fielding.
The chart seems to imply the same thing for first basemen, although their ability to cheat toward the middle of the infield is restricted somewhat by the necessity of their being able to cover first base.
Again, maybe I’m reading this chart wrong, but it appears to me that third basemen would benefit from playing a couple of steps more toward the middle, while first baseman could probably cheat an extra step.
3B probably make more plays is they played more off the line, but balls hit down the line usually go for extra bases. Balls hit on the ground between 3B and SS are singles.
by microwave donut on Mar 16, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
wow, my grammar is impeccable.
Third basemen would probably make more plays if they played more off the line.
by microwave donut on Mar 16, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
“No Dives, No Doubles”
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 16, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter
Jesus saves. It doesn’t matter which position he plays.
It also seems to suggest
That 2b’s see as many grounders as SS’s, and the defensive importance of the position is possibly under-stated.
Only real difference in “playability” between the two positions is the throw from 2b is shorter, but that is potentially offset by awkward throwing angles on balls up the middle.
by FairweatherFan on Mar 12, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
That 2b’s see as many grounders as SS’s, and the defensive importance of the position is possibly under-stated.
Not really. While they get the same number of balls hit directly at them, there are more grounders hit between the SS and the 3B than there are between the 2B and the 1B, and there are more grounders hit between the SS and second base than between the 2B and second base. Balls hit directly at fielders are usually routine outs anyway, it’s the ones hit slightly to the right or to the left of the fielders that more important.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
I agree with what the cooky man said above and will also dispute part II of your post:
Only real difference in "playability" between the two positions is the throw from 2b is shorter, but that is potentially offset by awkward throwing angles on balls up the middle.
Although the throw after fielding a ball up the middle is tough, it’s the equilalent of going deep into the 5.5 hole for a SS, which is longer/tougher.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Angle
The angle on the 5.5-3 throw is easier than the 4.5-3 angle. The 5.5-3 throw is certainly longer, but not necessarily easier. That said, usually the 3.5-3 throw is clearly easier for the second baseman than the 4.5-3 throw from the shortstop.
Not fast
I couldn’t do it fast, so I did it .5 fast.
You old people and your old people jokes.
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"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Youth is wasted on the young.
OK if I adopt Randy Johnson?
"What kind of a stupid question is that?"
by victor frankenstein on Mar 15, 2009 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I can’t see this team having three backup infielders. I know they’ve been talking about an 11-man pitching staff, but I still think they’ll actually end up going with 12.
In other words: bye, Jesus!
GROUGTHINK ALERT
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Yeah, I agree with you on the 12-man staff. It’s almost certainly going to happen. This is the team that often picks up a thirteenth pitcher (or used to) to make it through a weekend in Denver. I’d rather see Uribe go than Guzman, but at least Guzman has options and can be stashed in Fresno.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Aurilia should go. Uribe can back up at SS, Aurilia can’t. Guzman can hit, like really hit. He should make the team
Probably won’t happen that way, but it would be my choice.
by microwave donut on Mar 11, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Who can backup better at this point? Aurilia’s probably in better shape than Uribe.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Uribe has always been a much better defensive player. I don’t think his skills as a middle infielder have declined all the way to the point that they are similar to Rich Aurilia’s.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 11, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
judging Uribe in the little ST games ive seen/heard i’d say he’s pretty awful at it.
I think Aurilia would not be terrible for 1 to 2 games to give Renteria a break, or Frandsen if not Aurilia. If it’s DL time for Renteria then bring up Burriss from AAA.
by Giant Voodoo on Mar 11, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
No Uribe, please
We had Uribe on the roster last season except he went by the name of Jose Castillo.
by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 11, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Totally. Uribe was a nice random pick up to see what gas he had and I can honestly say im not impressed enough to see him break our roster. I’d rather have Jesus up in the bigs instead and make do at SS
by Giant Voodoo on Mar 11, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
if you think Guzman has a future with the Giants you should be hoping he gets to play everyday at AAA.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 11, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s what I’m thinking too. I’d rather he get playing time in the minors if he’s going to be any good than have him rot on the bench in the majors.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
I wouldn’t disagree if by the end of Spring Training, one of the other candidates at 2B grabs the starting job by the balls and/or Jesus tails off. My whole premise was that if he keeps hitting the ball so much better than Frandsen/Velez/Burriss, I see him winning the job because of the team’s need for offense at every position.
This is the VWL MVP for Jesus’ sake!
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I definitely understand you’re thinking there, and I’m not even arguing that. But if Bochy ends up naming someone else the starting 2B, then I’d rather see Guzman getting at bats in the minors. Guzman doesn’t ooze veteran savvy, so if he’s a bench player at the ML level, Bochy won’t get him regular at bats.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
Castillo would have been perfectly adequate...
…if he could play decent middle infield and was slated as a pure backup. The problem came in pretending he could be a starting third baseman.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
Shortstop
Jose Castillo wasn’t a shortstop. Also, Uribe has hit 20 or more home runs in three different seasons, the most recent being 2007.
That's a fun/pathetic Giants stat
Uribe leads all current Giants in 20+ HR seasons.
Rowand has 2, Winn has 1.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Aurilia hasn’t really played SS much since 04. Uribe didn’t last year, but was statisically above average defensively as an everyday SS in 07.
by microwave donut on Mar 11, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Guzman
Jesus might benefit from playing every day in the minors, particularly if the Giants want him to learn more about playing second base.
I could be wrong here, but I believe any team could have chosen Jesus in the Rule 5 draft this past winter.
that is true
In all of our irrational exuberance over him (and don’t get me wrong, I’m on board with all of it) it is good to keep this in mind.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 13, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
Also, we know that Jesus saves. If the Giants don’t rush him, they can return the favor by saving Jesus.
Semi-hijack
Who would make up your 12-man pitching staff?
Start with the obligatory:
ROTATION
- Lincecum
- Cain
- Johnson
- Sanchez
- Zito
PEN
- Wilson
- Howry
- Affeldt
Last four? Hmmm…I’m not sold the Giants will go with 12. If they go with 11, I’m thinking the last three spots go to…
- Medders
- Perdomo
- Hinshaw
Next spot, if there is one, goes to…. geez, Miller? Matos? I am desperately hoping against hope it won’t be Taschner.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
This is what I'm thinking..
How many spots do they feel they can give to people that can actually produce?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Romo? Merkin? I want to see Perdomo and those two, personally (though admittedly, school’s taken over my life this last week, so if they got injured, i didn’t see it). Otherwise, I’d like to see Hinshaw in the pen, just as long as we don’t have to suffer through more agent Jack
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Mar 11, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
more like double agent...
Perdomo has pitched well, and he’s Rule 5, so it seems like the Giants might want to hang on to him. Romo I think actually is injured. Valdez has pitched some since coming off of injury, but hard to know if he’s effective yet. But I think Valdez is out of options. The Giants might be forced to keep him, unless they can put him back on the DL.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
I was thinking of discussing the staff in this post, but am totally baffled right now by all the young pen guys.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Evaluating pitchers based on 5 or 6 innings FTL.
Of the young pitchers in camp, it seems like Joaquin has pitched well. It’s hard to evaluate, though, when you’re talking about all of 5 or 6 innings pitched. But Joaquin just barely made it to San Jose last season. I’m thinking they would want a little more farm time for him. Martinez has looked okayish, but he’s a starting pitcher. English and Sosa…meh. Not ready for prime time, I’d say.
Of the “retreads”, Medders has been the most impressive, I think. Beltran has also pitched well. Miller has looked good…until a couple hours or so ago.
Of the “holdovers”, it’s been pretty bleak. Matos has looked great. Hinshaw has looked better after a poor start. But Sadler, Misch, Yabu and Taschner have all been brutal.
It’ll be interesting to see which way the Giants go. I could see them going with holdovers they are comfortable with, like Taschner. Hopefully they won’t, but that has been their MO for years. Until now, maybe. They might go with whoever is throwing the ball well in camp, adequate sample size or no. Or they could go with their young promising pitchers who throw the ball well, even if the results haven’t necessarily shown up in the 3-5 innings they’ve pitched in AZ. Plus, there’s always the EVER CRITICAL issue of having a LOOGY in the pen. Taschner fits that role SO WELL!!
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Holdovers and new arms
I think with Wilson Affeldt and Howry as the designated “good” relievers the Giants will be will to take a chance on some of the Bullpen slots further down the depth chart. Just the fact that Walker, Correia, Henn, Yabu, Chulk are definately out means there are spots for new guys. Before the Giants would have 8-9 holdovers. Now we are just talking about Wilson and Tasch as guys that really could be considered holdovers from last year’s team. Hinshaw, Misch and Sadler were all up and down last year. If they have options, I don’t doubt the Giants willingness to put them into AAA to “work” on their control.
Then there is Taschner and Lowry. Both these guys might end up taking a spot from a younger guy with better “stuff.” These are the guys with more than one year of MLB-service time. But then at least Lowry has an option – he probably should be in AAA (if he gets healthy , c’mon Noah!). Taschner was an okay signing as a little insurance, but if we are really considering Perdomo and Hinshaw, and even Martinez and English, and the top of the depthchart is filled out, I don’t see a spot for this “workhorse.” And, sorry Jack, I wouldn’t mind a DFA.
Prediction (while Lowry, Romo and Valdez are injured or recovering)
Wilson
Affeldt
Howry
——
1.Taschner
2.Perdomo
3. Medders
(4). Hinshaw
(5). Miller
Romo and Valdez back will start bumping some guys off. If Tasch is struggling or has trade value…
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
…the Egyptian god of walks…
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Mar 12, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Romo
Merkin (if healthy)
Taschner
Hinshaw
Medders (if Merkin’s not healthy)
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Now with updates!
It’s going to be interesting to see how the whole logjam in the center of the infield gets resolved.
Goofus, even though you didn’t mention him, I’m assuming you think Burriss should (and will) start the season at Fresno. Which would be fine, and probably is the right thing to do, but his ST errors notwithstanding, I think the Giants could use him as a late-inning defensive replacement. Therefore, he has more value than Guzman.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
He has more immediate value than Guzman. He has more future value to the team in Fresno this year to play one spot consistently.
by paboperfecto on Mar 11, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
FANSHOT GEEZ
I’m sick of these Yahoo-ligans and their endless rosterbations. Could we just ban this guy already?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Mar 11, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions
2B
I would be pretty surprised to see Guzman at 2nd. However, Burriss and Franny both seem to be playing their way to Fresno the way things are going.
Were you expecting a lot more from Frandsen than his current 259/355/407?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
were you expecting him to not make a lot of stupid mistakes?
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 11, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Suck it!
Ha ha! Best use of multiple ‘Suck It’s’ in a post!
Proud supporter of the Fightin' Hydrants.
by Little Napoleon on Mar 11, 2009 3:21 PM PDT reply actions
I’m thinking maybe a back-up plan when Velez can’t handle the outfield. Or if Nate (or anyone else) is banged up for opening day.
I think he will be that backup plan that you speak of in AAA. Keep a bag packed at all times Andres.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 11, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking Bowker might be the 5ht OF if Velez can’t handle the OF. It would give them some leftty pop off the bench.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
and it would be another good way to stunt Bowker’s development
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 11, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I-Rod?
I was watching Sanchez’s good outing against theses minor leaguers from the Dutch team and Steve Phillips mentioned the Giants as a possible suitor for Ivan Rodriguez to catch and play some 3B. Obviously I didn’t take this very seriously because it was said by Steve Phillips, but does anybody know if there is something to this, or is it just typical Steve Phillips talking directly from his ass?
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 11, 2009 4:19 PM PDT reply actions
This man from the Chicago area would like to see it happen.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Nathan I. from Chicago; sounds like a typical Steve Phillips “source”
by FluLikeSymptoms on Mar 11, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually don't think I would really object to that signing.
Getting Pudge for super cheap wouldn’t be that bad of an idea. He could be pretty damn useful off the bench, especially compared to Steve Holm. Plus Pudge and Bengie would be one of the most awesome catching duos in history.
"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays
by stealth snail on Mar 12, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Guzman goes down
We’re talking about a guy with only 15 games above AA. I don’t think the Giants are gonna hand him a starting job based on a couple of hot weeks. And if he’s not starting, it makes way more sense to send him to Fresno to play every day and sit an Uribia or Aurile on the SF bench.
If Frandsen loses the 2B job, I say either Uribe or Burriss gets it. Probably Uribe, in which case Frandsen is on the bench along with Aurilia.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
I Don't See Guzman Even Making The Opening Day Roster
I am also not believing the Giants will really start the season with just 11 pitchers. After Wilson, Howry, and Affeldt there are still just too many bullpen question marks for me to believe they will actually go with just three others.
As of right now my best guess for a 13-Man Opening Day Position Player Roster is:
Lineup: Winn RF, Renteria SS, Lewis LF, Molina C, Sandoval 3B, Rowand CF, Ishikawa 1B, Fandsen 2B
Bench: Holm C, Aurilia IF, Uribe IF, Bowker OF (Schierholtz on the DL), Velez OF/2B
Clearly the Rotation (barring injury – knock on wood) is set at Lincecum, Johnson, Cain, Zito, and Sanchez with Lowry unfortunately once again on the 60 Day DL to free up both a 40-Man and a 25-Man roster spot.
This leaves the bullpen to figure out. I currently have three upsets here and see the bullpen as follows:
Closer – Wilson
RIghty SetUp – Howry
Lefty SetUp – Affeldt
Middle Relief – Medders (Yabu released, outrighted, or traded)
Middle Relief – Matos (Romo on the DL)
Lefty Specialist – Taschner (but really none of Taschner, Hinshaw, or English have pitched well)
Long Relief – Perdomo (Valdez on the DL)
where is Romo? If Burriss continues to play well and SF envisions him as a 2b and not a SS why can’t Burriss be the Opening Day 2b and Franny win the utility job? With the way Taschner and Hinshaw have pitched English should be given at least a peek.
I See Romo On The DL With Valdez
I noted this in
Middle Relief – Matos (Romo on the DL)
I see Burriss playing SS everyday in Fresno. I think the Giants will end up agreeing with me that Frandsen is the 2B ready to start and most likely to do so sucessfully.
by giantsrainman on Mar 11, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
By The Way, What Makes You Think Burriss As Starting 2B Over Frandsen?
I hope you do agree that he Manny should go to Fresno to play everyday if he isn’t going to play everyday on the big club. This is not an option with Frandsen as he is out of options.
by giantsrainman on Mar 11, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Am one of Franny’s biggest fans and think he would make a great #2 hitter. My concern is maybe Burriss is ready and has the GG at 2b and speed that this line-up could use. Continue to hear Burriss does not possess the skill to be an everyday ML shortstop and will eventually be moved to 2b.
My belief is Burriss is ready now and has GG defense then SF should take advantage of this. Why send him down to play another position if their scouts believe he is best suited for 2b. Franny could get starts at 2b, 3b and SS. He could and has played some OF. I would probably prefer Frandsen as the utility guy over Jose Uribe, Jesus Guzman etc.
Jesus needs a spot in this lineup. Unless Ishi fails and they have to move Sandoval to first, then second base looks like the best option. Burriss to Fresno, Frandsen utility IF.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Mar 11, 2009 8:13 PM PDT reply actions
Every lineup
Jesus needs a spot in EVERY lineup. He can lead off and also be your cleanup hitter.
They always threaten to carry just 11 Pitchers, then they carry 12.
So—I’ve got SP Tim, Randy, Matt, Barry, Jonathan
RP Wilson, Affeldt, Howry; then
Taschner (vet loyalty but I don’t think he’ll last the season), Matos (swap w Romo later), Perdomo, long relief Joe Martinez to follow Zito, or could be Miller or Medders.
Frandsen starts at 2B but Velez gets plenty of starts there.
Other reserves Holm, Aurilia, Uribe, Torres (until Nate is ready; or could be Bowker)
I agree, Bowker sitting on the bench is bad, so I vote Torres instead, despite the power dropoff. Now, an actual 4-man OF rotation including Nate or Bowker would be great, but the “normal” play is all “starters” out there almost always.
And I hope Frandsen can cover SS backup, so Uribe can be sent away, replaced by Rohlinger or Downs or even Horwitz.
And it’ll be fun watching Jesus and Manny B. trying to slug their way up here.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
i agree with your choice of words for Nate. I see him getting plenty of AB’s from the 4th OF spot.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 11, 2009 9:53 PM PDT reply actions
Were you really rosterbating alone?
BTW, if Grant’s the Overlord, shouldn’t you all (the moderators) be Drones?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
They’re minions.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Mar 12, 2009 3:58 AM PDT up reply actions
(Starcraft Joke….)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
I always sucked really badly at SC, so it was never fun for me. I had a friend who was pretty good at it and loved it. We would play and it would take me like 20 minutes to build up a little base or whatever, and then he would destroy it in less than 2 minutes.
Most frustrating game, ever.
I’m awful at all RTS games. I’ll play SC2 simply because it’s SC2 and then stop playing it soon after giving multiplayer a try.
by chilibean_3 on Mar 12, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
For me it was like the most unsatisfying game ever to play on MP. It’s all build-build-build-build. And then you get destroyed in like 1 minute.
I WAS the zerg rush
Here I was reading your above comment thinking “built a base for 20 minutes? His opponent is doing it wrong!”
by FairweatherFan on Mar 12, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m pretty horrible at it too. I mostly played with my friends or single player. Yeah, I actually care about the story.
You cared about the story?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
That is a tad odd. What about Counterstrike?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
WEIRD
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
Relief question
Is there any chance we trade Taschner before the end of spring training to a team desperate for a lefty? Hopefully getting a really young player with some kind of upside in return?
Hector Sanchez: learning to play defense from older brother Jackson Williams.
Before the end of ST? not likely. Teams just won’t be that desperate. I’d be happy to trade just to get the (very minor amount) of salary relief.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
huh?
get salary relief ?
We could have just not re-signed him, That would have been 100% salary relief. I guarantee you the Giants didn’t re-sign taschner just to trade him for salary relief.
by FairweatherFan on Mar 12, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Taschner and Hinshaw are both going to make me consume vast amounts of booze this season. I guess I am not as high on Alex as everyone else.
by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 12, 2009 8:51 AM PDT reply actions
You’ll be high once they drive you to using narcotics.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Mar 12, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
serious question
is there any way that Brian Bocock could play his way into the backup SS role? It seems likely that he wouldn’t recieve regular playing time at Fresno with Rohlinger/ Burriss, etc. going down there, and he’s been hitting well. i’d rather have bocock as the backup SS than uribe. thoughts?
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Mar 12, 2009 12:27 PM PDT reply actions
i’d rather have bocock as the backup SS than uribe. thoughts?
Can I ask why? Uribe is definitely the better hitter right now and his defense at SS would be acceptable for a backup. I think I figured out that Bocock — if given a full-season in the majors last season — would have been in the hole something like -70 runs by his bat alone. No amount of defense is going to save that.
Uribe is probably better right now and Bocock should get steady PT anyways.
why wouldn’t Bocock be the starting SS in Fresno? Bocock has the defensive skills to be a ML shortstop whereas there remains questions about which position Burriss is best suited. Fresno could start Bocock at SS and Burriss at 2b (obviously if he does not make the opening day roster in SF).
I think the organization is better served if Burriss can make it as an everyday SS. I don’t think his offense will ever allow him to be a valuable 2B. Servicable, maybe (I think Baron might want to service him right now), but probably not valaubale.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
His value on offense would be in OBP and runs scored. He could utilize his speed and baserunning skills to take extra bases, go from first to third, score from first on extra basehits, move up a base on sac bunts etc.
Agreed. If he can continue the OBP strides he made at the end of last season, he’s be a good leadoff hitter. Like I said, he’d be much more valubale if he could do all that as a SS.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Wheras Bocock
Likely will never develop the bat to be even useful at the ML level.
by FairweatherFan on Mar 12, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I think
Burriss OBP was significantly inflated due to batting 8th… I hope I’m wrong, because the speed would play well as a leadoff hitter
by lincysgiants on Mar 12, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not ready to completely give up on him since he was really really rushed into MLB service last year, but he certainly needs a lot more seasoning in the minors. Burriss is much closer to mlb-ready.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I’m not ready to say he has any kind of future at all. I wouldn’t release him from the organization, but he has to show some hitting, somewhere, to consider him even the fringest of fringe prospects. And he’s never done that. Right now, Brian Bocock is a nonprospect.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
Chatterbalks dot com: Now with updates!
I agree. It is time to sink the Bocock.
by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 12, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
We’ll find that Giants shortstop who’s been causing all the fuss
We had to sink the Bocock, all the world depends on us
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
Thank you , Dr. Demento...
…and this guy.
OK if I adopt Randy Johnson?
"What kind of a stupid question is that?"
by victor frankenstein on Mar 15, 2009 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Don’t know about hs but in college he hit a low of .275 and a high of .355.
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan and Jeremiah Luster.
Rich gets a special waiver...
…those are all Giants that have actually lived at his actual house. (Basement or not, we don’t yet have confirmation…)
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Mar 13, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Do I get extra points....
For having Timmy sleep on my couch?
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan and Jeremiah Luster.
Manny Burris
Will be the starting 2nd baseman on opening day.
why doesn’t anyone else think so?
he consistently has starting in spring training and is doing a good job.
he will win that spot
My opinion...
Starters
1B – Ishikawa
2B – Frandsen
SS – Renteria
3B – Sandoval
C – Molina
RF – Winn
CF – Rowand
LF – Lewis
Bench
C – Holm
OF – Schierholtz
3B/SS – Uribe
2B/OF – Velez
1B – Aurilia
The first position players to get called up from the minors:
Emmanuel Burriss
John Bowker
Matt Downs
Jesus Guzman
Does Josh Phelps being demoted mean that he’s going to play for Fresno this year?
If so, I’d add him to that list.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Mar 13, 2009 5:19 PM PDT reply actions
minor infielders
i am projecting Burriss or Wald at SS in Fresno, Bocock in Conn in the bad weather.
Fresno also gets Guzman, Rohlinger, and Maroul or Downs.
Conn. gets (Downs or Maroul), Boyer, maybe Gillaspie, and somebody else like Bond.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
Which Bond?
James? Would he bat 7th? Hopefully he wouldn’t be a big zero at the plate — and particularly not a double zero.
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