I Know, I Know..... But Why Not?
by Carmelballin on Feb 8, 2009 1:01 AM PST
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PrintSo I just read this report on ESPN saying that Ray Durham may retire if he does not receive and offers from any ball clubs
Here's the link:
Now I know what you guys are thinking.... But, why not sign Ray Durham at a minimum contract. I know he wasn't the greatest hitter, and yes he was a bit streaky at times but he always put forth a solid at bat. Now, I've always been a fan of letting young guys play, but I don't think neither Burriss, Frandsen, or Velez are Major League ready. And say we did start one of those three players, and it didn't necessarily work out, then we could always have Durham as insurance. Out of all the so called "old guys" we have had throughout the years such as the Moises Alous and Ryan Kleskos of the world, Ray Durham was one of my favorites and the most productive.
I'd say the biggest question mark we have out of all positions is maybe 2nd and 1st. By signing Durham, I think we have a good enough group of players to complement Durham. Think about this for a second, and don't be so quick to shoot this down.
Then again, we could just sign somebody better and this post can completely be disregarded, but knowing Sabean we won't sign anyone for any kind of money. So why not pay little for Durham??
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I’ve come to the conclusion that most Giants fans do not want a rebuild in any way, shape or form. Lots of people will pay lip service to letting a young guy play, but then it is time to let that happen they start looking for reasons not to.
If Ray could play the other infield positions besides 2nd, I’d prefer him to Aurilia or some other minor league deal schmoe they will pick up to be the last guy off the bench, but he can’t. Hell, he could barely play 2nd when he was here. It is time to move on. Let’s not keep bringing back the same players year after year while wondering why the results haven’t changed.
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 8, 2009 1:18 AM PST reply actions
I’ve come to the conclusion thatmostsome Giants fans do not want a rebuild in any way, shape or form.
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Feb 8, 2009 8:00 AM PST up reply actions
That (the second paragraph)
We’ve got enough people tied to one position already, we don’t need another.
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I still haven’t stopped celebrating that Sabean managed to move him last year and actually got two bodies in return. Now you want to bring him back?? Ray was a pretty good Giant, but we gave him one contract too many. Now you want to give him another one??
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
You must have misunderstood me. I meant that I agree that we don’t need to bring back Durham, since we’ve already got players who can only play one position signed (Velez, Ishikawa, Phelps, Renteria, with Sandoval only playing the corners as well).
Ray was a good Giant, and I don’t really think that we gave him one too many contracts. No one could have predicted that he’d drop down to a .218/.295/.343 clip. I think we knew he would regress from .293/.360/.538, but not that far. I think he could probably still put up above average offense for someone and would be a good addition to an otherwise good fielding infield. That does not mean us.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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Let's get down to brass tacks
Let’s get down to brass tacks on this one.
First, Ray would likely come rather cheaply. Playing for a million bucks would make him about a million bucks MORE than retiring.
Second, Ray could share time with Kevin Frandsen, with Ray getting in most of the hitting and Kevin playing in the field as much as would be prudent.
Third, Kevin isn’t likely the Giants’ second baseman of the future; Nick Noonan or possibly Conor Gillaspie (or even Emmanuel Burriss) is. Why not get him started on his likely future role as a platoon/utility player?
Fourth, Burriss probably needs more time in the minors. If the Giants didn’t believe this, why did they spend $18.5 million for Edgar Renteria to block Burriss at the position for which Manny’s bat is best suited?
Fifth, signing Durham would likely get Eugenio Velez off the major league roster. The clank from Eugenio’s glove is at least as loud as Ray’s, but it isn’t likely his bat will be. If Eugenio had more base running sense, he would make an ideal pinch runner.
Sixth, when Ray is playing, Kevin would make a decent pinch hitter; when Kevin plays, Ray would be a pinch hitter who could hit from either side and could drive in runs as well as get on base.
Seventh, having Ray would minimize the damage should Kevin suffer any kind of setback or other injury.
Eighth, Ray would add experience to a young team. He knows the game, even if he doesn’t always execute it in the field.
Ninth, if the Giants aren’t going to explore every possiblity of contending in 2009 without damaging their future, why did they sign Renteria and Randy Johnson — just for laughs?
Tenth, Ray can actually play a position (sort of), while Velez doesn’t field well enough to play in the field and doesn’t hit well enough to be a designated hitter in inter-league away games.
Eleventh, Ray would become good buddies with Manny Ramirez after Manny is signed. :)
I respectfully disagree
Roger, if it really were just simply a choice between Ray and Velez, then I would agree with you. Although I was an early Velez-supporter, I’ve now seen enough to know I don’t want him on my team. And, from all accounts, Ray seems like a terrific human being. But I see four problems with this scenario:
(1) Specifically, I don’t see Velez on the team anyway, and so I see this as more a stituation where Ray robs AB’s from young guys who need major league AB’s – not just other potential 2B, but other potential pinch hitters.
(2) Above that, I firmly believe Frandsen will be, and should be, our 2B the next 2-3 years. If Noonan, Downs, Gillaspie, or Rohlinger emerge before then and outperform Kevin, so be it. Or if the long-awaited imaginary Cain-for-Utley trade occurs.
(3) I wouldn’t imagine Ray would accept a measly $1million salary.
(4) Philosophically, it’s just wrong. The Israelites complained to Moses on the journey to the promised land when they started looking backwards. “Oh, we had it so good back in Egypt.” Wrong, they were slaves there! But when we encounter tough times, one instinct is to cling those things that are familiar and comfortable. I think it’s time we, too, stopped looking backwards and commit to the hard work of rebuilding our franchise. Ray will not be part of the Next Good Giants Team©. Ray will not make the difference between the ‘09 Giants winning the NLWest or not. Ray will only take AB’s away from younger players who we need to audition.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
#3 is probably true.
If I were Ray I’d probably try to get a few mil more, plus incentives. Otherwise I’d say I had a pretty good career.
It’s pretty sad how many veterans aren’t getting contracts this year. Sure, they aren’t great, but they should be good for something.
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Good point
You make good points, Lyle, but did I mention that Ray would get on base a lot? :) While I see Ray as getting the majority of at bats, I would be flexible on that if Kevin truly performs.
And I’m not adament about signing Ray. I’m just throwing it out there as a possible deal to aid the transition from the past to the future. If I felt stronger about Kevin, I wouldn’t suggest it. But should the Giants sign Joe Crede and find him healthy, I think second base is likely to become their weakest position.
I see Kevin as more of a right-handed hitting complement to Nick Noonan or Conor Gillaspie down the line. I’m glad you’re not forgetting Matt Down or Ryan Rohlinger. I’m not sold on either player, but I think some have written off Rohlinger in particular even though it was probably unfair to expect him to be ready to step right in after a season at San Jose and Norwich.
i recall vaguely a few situations…hmm , bases loaded ring a bell?…where Ray pointedly did not get on base or even extend the inning. In fact , he ended the inning.
Really , this is as bad as the bringing back Barry saga in that it could actually happen.
Can we please move on?
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Feb 8, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
Why?
Last season Ray Durham hit .300/.364/.500/.864 with the bases loaded and .286/.388/.469/.857 with runners in scoring position. Over his career he has stroked .327/.359/.547/.907 with the bases loaded and .269/.366/.414/.780 with RISP.
Why are you focusing on a few at bats when you should be judging the bigger picture?
Wow , looks solid.*
Why isn’t he signed?
*dude , if there isn’t an Idiot’s Guide To What These Numbers Represent above them then I’m completely in the dark. As usual. But thank you.
OK if I adopt Randy Johnson?
"What kind of a stupid question is that?"
by victor frankenstein on Feb 10, 2009 12:55 AM PST up reply actions
Fine...let's go.
1. Nah…there is no indication that Ray is “willing to come cheaply”. In fact, all quotes from Ray point to this not being true.
2. This is exactly why the Giants should not sign Ray. It is time for the toung players to shit or get off the pot.
3. We have no idea that this is the case. In fact, a partial reason why we don’t know is because Frandsen has never been given a chance to sink or swim.
4. I agree on Burriss.
5. Irrelevant. Velez should be on the roster anyway.
6. I made a point in my original post that Ray would be a good 25th guy. Anything other than that is living in the past.
7. Irrelevant. People get injured. Ray got injured quite a bit.
8. I guess, if yo buy into that. I guess he could teach how to “not executing on the field”. Besides, the Giants have other players who can fit the “experience” role.
9. Because someone has to play SS and pitch in ‘09. Both of those players were signed to short low risk conracts as a bridge to the younger players. You can make an argument about Renteria blocking Burriss, but saying Johnson is taking anyone’s spot is ridiculous..and quite frankly, probably intentionally so.
10. Irrelevant. Velez shouldn’t be on the team anyway. And the fact that you switched from the Kevin comparison to Eugenio betrays that even you know this is a weak reason.
11. The Giants are not signing Manny.
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 8, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
5. Irrelevant. Velez should shouldn’t be on the roster anyway.
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 8, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
And yet….
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I happened to stumble across “Tom Sawyer” by Rush on iTunes yesterday, so in your honor I gave it a listen. Um…..not too impressed. Whiny voice. Is there a better example?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
Whaaaaaa?
I mean… Today’s Tom Sawyer he high by on YOU, in the SPACE he invades he gets by on you!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Geddy Lee does have a whiny voice, and personally I hate his voice too. Do yourself a favour and try and check 2112 out at the library and give it a listen to, at least the 2112 suite.
It’s more about the music than the singing man.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
All the gifts of life are held within McCovey Chronicles.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 11, 2009 4:58 AM PST up reply actions
We are the Fringe
of the Temple
of Lunacy
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
And the McCoven shall inherit the Earth
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 11, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions
#7
When I stated that having Ray Durham would minimize the damage should Kevin Frandsen have a setback or other injury, you retorted, “Irrelevant. People get injured. Ray got injured quite a bit.”
When you add “People get injured,” to “Irrelevant,” aren’t you contradicting yourself? It is precisely the fact that “people get injured” that DOES make having Ray Durham so that total starting reliance isn’t put on Kevin Frandsen important. At least if you had said that the chances of Kevin’s being injured again are small (which likely isn’t true, given his history of injury), your argument would have been internally logical.
Think about what you are saying
You want to mitigate against injury by having Durham on your roster? Really? Mr. Hamstring pull?
It is you who is being illogical.
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 9, 2009 5:57 AM PST up reply actions
Illogical?
As I mentioned, when you added “People get injured” to “Irrelevant,” you contradicted yourself. Now you say adding Ray Durham, who admittedly has been injury prone since joining the Giants after being extremely healthy before doing so, is being illogical.
Of course it isn’t. First of all, if you intermix Ray with Kevin Frandsen, by limiting Ray’s use you reduce his chance of injury. Second, if you add Ray you CAN’T be worse off if Kevin becomes injured, since unless Ray is injured, you still have Ray. And if you don’t have either one, you have Juan Uribe or even a recall of Emmanuel Burriss.
Even if you add a player who is MORE injury-prone to one who is less injury-prone, you have added to your depth and to your protection against injury.
Your comment “Irrelevant. People get injured. Ray got injured quite a bit.” had just enough truth to make us forget its very first word — you know, the one that WASN’T true.
Easy to find out
Your statement that there is no indication that Ray would be wililng to come cheaply and that the existing evidence is to the contrary could be taken as a reason not to pursue Ray. Or one could merely ask, “How much would you be willing to play for in order to have one last shot at the playoffs — one which you lost out on last season?”
You say
You say we have no idea whether Kevin Frandsen is the Giants’ second baseman of the future. I beg to differ. Not only do most scouts believe Nick Noonan is far more likely to be, I just saw Bruce Bochy himself on a show called something like “Giants Clubhouse,” hosted by Jon Miller and also including Fred Lewis and Mr. Frandsen on stage.
When asked which Giants might make a dent in 2009 or soon thereafter such as was made by Pablo Sandoval, Manny Burriss and Fred himself, it would have been quite easy for Bruce to say that he hoped Kevin would be one, just as Fred had been in 2008.
Instead he mentioned Bumgarner and Alderson — and Nick Noonan. Just a hunch on my part, but if I were Kevin, I wouldn’t be expecting a long-term pact with starters’ money anytime soon.
You know who isn't the 2B of the future?
Ray Durham, that’s who. He is 37 years old. And not exactly the epitome of fitness.
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 9, 2009 5:59 AM PST up reply actions
Ray Durham
Ray Durham most definitely ISN’T the Giants’ second baseman of the future. Nor is he the epitome of fitness.
When you’re right, I agree with you. Just don’t say Ray is irrelevant if he can help the Giants.
8) something about a young team
I’m sorry, if we bring in Ray Ray, who’s the young players on the team? TI, Sandoval, and Lewis? Why is it that Renteria, Molina, Rowand, and Winn aren’t veteran leadership enough? For the pitchers, can’t we make do with the veteran leadership provided by Johnson, Zito, Affeldt, Howry, Taschner, etc? Exactly how much veteran leadership do we really need for our now-three young position players and three younger pitchers?
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Let it Ray(n), let it Ray(n), let it Ray(n)
If the Giants bring in Ray Durham, the young players on the team will likely be the three you mentioned plus Frandsen, Nate Schierholtz, Steve Holm, Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Jonathan Sanchez, Brian Wilson, Sergio Romo, Jack Taschner, Hinshaw and possibly Luis Perdomo and/or John Bowker.
That’s pretty much half the team.
So we need half the team to be the veteran leadership and the other half to be young? Lincecum won the Cy Young last year, so how much veteran leadership do we assume he needs? Matt Cain’s been in the league for a few years, isn’t he technically a vet? Taschner is 30 AND has been a major leaguer since 2005, so at what point does he no longer qualify as a young player?
I don’t mean to be all argumentative, this is really the only point you made that I have a beef with. I just don’t find point 8 to be a very compelling reason to re-sign a guy.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
I agree
I absolutely agree that point #8 isn’t a compelling reason to sign Ray Durham. But remember it was only one of 11 reasons for doing so.
The rest of the reasons I simply disagree with because I’d rather see Frandsen and anyone under 30 get that playing time. You aren’t wrong in your reasoning, but I’m personally tired of seeing every single young guy getting pushed to the bench in favor of a washed up vet at the end of his career. Yeah, I know Randy and Edgar are essentially End of Life players, but at least they aren’t blocking anyone interesting right now. I’d WAY rather see Frandsen get some playing time in to see what he can truly do.
God bless Ray, but for me personally, he’s just not what I want for this team.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
You make a good point
You make a good point here, but I feel it is more important to keep as many prospects as possible than to give major league playing time to prospects I think may be less likely to contribute in the long run.
You are right that Edgar isn’t blocking anyone. Randy is blocking Nate Schierholtz.
If the Giants had signed/sign Adam Dunn, Joe Crede and Ray Durham, Travis Ishikawa and Kevin Frandsen would have been blocked (although I would still have envisioned plenty of playing time for Kevin and some for Travis). Pablo Sandoval would have had to play three positions (and particularly catcher and first base) to get his playing time in and probably would have seen his playing time cut a bit.
But the Giants would have put together a team likely to finish above .500 and with a chance to finish with 85 wins or more. And they would have done so without trading a single prospect.
I think their present plan of picking up distressed merchandise at the trade deadline has some merit — but I think it will cost them prospects (and achieve less than half a season of value from the acquired players).
The Giants have a lot of salary dollars coming off the books a year from now. I’m just not sure where they will be able to spend it well without trading away prospects. I think they might have been better off to take further advantage of this year’s downturn in free agent dollars.
Overall I like what they did. I just don’t like what they left undone. Brian Sabean’s downfall used to be in signing players that were halfway good. This winter I think his downfall might be in leaving the job half done. I fear the Giants will pay the price in prospects at the trade deadline.
Nooooo!!!!!!
Why not bring back JT Snow, too?? How about Matt Williams?? Will Clark?? Willie Mays?? Enough retreads!!
Retread?
I don’t see Ray as a retread — or even a retard. After a 2008 season in which his OBP of .380 was well ahead of most Giants, Ray would appear to still have a little rubber on his wheels.
You’re right, Rog, Ray actually had a good season in 2008. The question is why would you expect him to have another one?? This is the same mistake they’re making when they offer Rich Aurilia a minor league contract and now you want them to do it with Durham as well. He’s too old, let him retire off of a good season.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
He’s going to be 37 next year, not really that old. And as I said before if he gets signed and plays a full season, I’d expect above average (OPS+ >100) numbers out of him. 2007 was such an outlier that it could even be thrown away, just as 2006 was an outlier, yet not as extreme.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I agree with Mark
I agree with Mark that Ray will likely suffer a bit of a decline in 2009 — just as I predicted a bounce-back from him in 2008. But I think Ray would provide protection against a possible poor season from Frandsen. And if Ray isn’t cutting the mustard, just cut him. If the Giants can get him back for something around $1 million (which may not be doable), cutting him loose if necessary wouldn’t be all that costly.
Then again, it’s not ALL bad to have a switch hitter on the bench who has demonstrated both the ability drive in runs and to get on base.
It might be noted that Ray increased his line drive percentage from 13.4% in 2007 to 20.4% last year. That compared nicely to his career 19.2% LD% and would seem to indicate he’s not yet washed up.
If he’s not overused, I think Ray would be capable of achieving close to his career OPS of .788. And I think that he and Kevin would make nice complements to each other.
how many second baseman do you want though?? Frandsen, Velez, Burriss, Uribe, possibly Aurilia AND Durham?? Why not talk Kent out of retirement while we’re at it?? We have three young players fighting for that position, let them slug it out. You can always find a Durham type around later if you need it.
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
Not Aurilia
Let me address them one-by-one.
Kevin Frandsen would play quite a bit at second base and would provide emergency insurance around both the infield and outfield, as well as possibly being the emergency catcher.
Velez would play in Fresno or for another organization.
Burriss would play shortstop at Fresno, hopefully readying him for full-time shortstop (or second base) duty as early as 2010.
Uribe would become the third second baseman (which isn’t the same as being the sixth baseman) while performing the primary roles of backing up the left side of the infield.
Aurilia would possibly be biding his time in Fresno, hoping for a situation that would cause him to be called up.
Durham would get the majority of the at bats at the keystone, while having his hands in the dugout as often as possible, reducing the chances they would rust.
37 is not old??
Are you Brian Sabean?? This is the kind of thinking that gets Brian in trouble. The steroid era is over. 37 is old. And I can’t even tell you how old it is when your team is supposed to be in a youth movement. If Ray Durham wins you 10 more games than any other option the Giants have at second base than by all means sign him. But if he wins you only one more, or if you’re not even sure that he’s better than what you have, (which is clearly the case here) you don’t go near him.
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
37 isn’t that old. Ray isn’t in horrible shape, he’s injury prone yes but he can still get running. I’m not even saying the Giants should sign him. I never said that. I’ve made several posts saying that we shouldn’t sign him, just that I hope he is signed somewhere since I think he could give another team above average production.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
ok, I can agree with you on that. He could help somebody, but not a team that has three young players that can play second, combined with a veteran backup (Uribe) already signed, and signed to a type of contract that Ray himself has said he’s not willing to sign.
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
Likely
It is likely that the Giants would win more games with Ray Durham and Kevin Frandsen sharing second base than with Kevin alone, or Kevin and Eugenio Velez. I think you’re right that the difference isn’t likely to be much more than a game or two, but if you can add a win or two without spending much and by giving up no players, I think it’s a move to make.
Signing Joe Crede likely isn’t a huge move, either, but it is one I would make if he is healthy. There can be a lot of advantage to platooning or semi-platooning. Crede’s bat is particularly valuable since he swings from the right side. Durham is a switch hitter, which gives him some advantages over Frandsen.
To me, each game is a chess match. And the more pieces a manager has, the better his chance of winning if he uses them wisely. It can also help him avoid overplaying certain players, both keeping them fresher and helping avoid exposing their weaknesses.
A great manager is one who puts players in positions in which they can succeed. The more complementary pieces he has, the better he can manage to do that.
Remember, I was fine with the Giants staying with the status quo and builiding for the future. But they have now made eight veteran signings (four to minor league contracts) that have improved their 2009 team without losing any future players. My question is, why stop halfway? Add Manny Ramirez, Crede and Durham, and suddenly you have a team with depth and some semblance of a middle of the lineup.
The one thing that does scare me is that BP projected the Diamondbacks for 90 wins. If Arizona is that good, the Giants have little chance of catching them even with the trio mentioned above.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
I’m not sure..but I think there are pixels in there.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Abre los ojos
There are pixels everywhere. It’s inherent in the medium.
/ducks/
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
Durham can still rake, but can’t play the field. As a PH or DH, I’d still like him, but I wouldn’t trust Bochy with him.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Krikey don’t we have enough infielders? Sandoval, Ishi, Uribe, Renteria, Frandsen, Burriss, Bowker, and now possibly Aurilia and Crede?
Did MLB expand the roster size and not tell the fans? Maybe there’s something we’re missing here.
Actually I’m guessing that maybe the Giants will package some of our infield / outfield glut and try and trade 8 guys for 1 or 2. Maybe the correct word to use there is hoping.
Not really
Every single one of those guys whose surnames begin with a “B” will likley be in the minors, and the one whose initials read like an addendum to a letter could make the Giants’ need for another catcher beyond anyone with a nickname involving “Money” moot.
So even with Aurilia and Crede or Durham and Crede, if Sandoval counts as a catcher the Giants would have only six infielders, which certainly isn’t above the norm. Of course if they took this “Money” thing to an extreme and signed Cash, they would indeed be above the Norm.
Norm may be dead, but I believe Don Money is available, and Eddie Money might want to take a lark. Does Eddie perform the song that goes, “Money, money, money — MONey!”?
And speaking of money — and of Manny — just how much money would Manny bring in to help defray his salary? When it comes to fans, how many would Manny make money from? I believe Manny is mainly manly.
poetically
The fanny on the Manny is mainly on the tranny.
No, wait, that’s not right. Let me try again:
There once was a Ramirez named Manny
Whose defense was much like my Granny.
His bat was terrific,
But his “D” unspecific;
Ill-fitting a brief stay in San Franny.
Hmm. I’ll work on a haiku and get back to you.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
I used to work for a Pakistani. He hated American music, but he would listen to the rock station all day just to hear Eddie Money’s “Baby Hold On To Me.” Eddie will never know how he saved me that year.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Eddie Money…never liked that fella.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Eddie Money
= racist against Pakistanis
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
Paki bags will leave tonight
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
They have a huge illegal drug industry in Pakistan. I really doubt that Eddie Money has anything but love for that country.
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
It’s the hunger!
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 10, 2009 6:02 AM PST up reply actions
Just like Ronnie sighed?
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 10, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
Don't sign Norm!
Gimme some of that Dave Cash. Now there was a second baseman who could make contact.
Why not you ask?
Runner on 3rd with less than two outs….
THATS WHY!!!!
I think I pulled my swagger muscle...
Ok, I don't agree, but...
To claim that he isn’t a good fielder may not be true. Yeah, Ray Ray made my eyes bleed a few times on popups to RCF as well, but in his 5+ years with the Giants he was a plus defender, and he was a good value except for that 2007 season where he forgot how to hit.
So I think the argument should stay at playing the young guys to see what they can do, and not belittling Ray Ray, because he could be an asset in the short-term. Unfortunately, the short-term for the Giants isn’t looking too promising. So, I think this brings us back to Joe Crede…
''I love this cornbread so much, I want to take it behind a middle school, and get it pregnant.''
- Fred Lewis?
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Feb 8, 2009 10:49 AM PST reply actions
Gee whiz
Why did most of us hate him so much on defense? Was it just because he looked horrible?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
Ray was always a pretty good defender overall, he just had a tendency to blow easy plays (concentration lapses?) and leave an impression of iron-handedness. I loved Ray and still think that on many of the Bonds era teams, how Durham went, so went the offense (Barry being Barry regardless).
Still, job #1 for 2009 is player development and Ray is fully developed. No thanks.
by Johnny Disaster on Feb 9, 2009 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
Because...
Durham has told his agent that he won’t grovel for a job. He doesn’t expect a salary approaching his $7.5 million in 2008, but he’s also not interested in a minor league invite or the $800,000 utility infielder plan.
he sucks
that’s why.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Feb 8, 2009 11:35 AM PST reply actions
I have to admit...
When I heard he was probably going to retire, in my head I was thinking “noooooo! the Giants should resign him!”
But that was just because I liked him.. He was a good player and a good personality on the Giants for a good while.
But it really, really doesn’t make any sense to sign him.
But I do hope he ends up somewhere cuz he’s awesome.
I will always like Sugar Ray.
But No.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Feb 8, 2009 7:05 PM PST reply actions
Complete the roster
Let’s bring back Ray, sign Crede, Adam Dunn, and Bobby Abreu. New veteran roster:
C – Molina
1b – Dunn
2b – Durham
SS – Renteria
3b – Crede
LF – Abreu
CF – Rowand
RF – Winn
Not only is that a powerful team, we also don’t have a single young player in sight! Hooray for progress!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
yeah, that’s my biggest problem with it. If there’s a huge advantage to the veteran, like Randy Johnson instead of Kevin Pucetas, you have to go with the veteran, but I don’t see Ray Durham as any improvement at all over Kevin Frandsen, let alone a big one.
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
The above team
Take the above team, don’t sign Abreu, play Dunn (or Ramirez) in left field and Pablo Sandoval at first, then trade Rowand or Winn, allowing Fred Lewis and Nate Schierholtz to still be the third and fourth outfielders, and you would have a team that would have a good chance to win the NL Worst and wouldn’t be blocking any likely long-term starters — with the possible exception of the fourth outfielder, a situation which existed before the Giants made any of their off-season moves.
Oh, and this competitiveness would have come without the Giants’ having traded away a SINGLE young prospect.
I think you do a better job of roster construction, JR, than you did at first base. :)
Screw you, Sharksrog!!!
I was going to be the BEST DAMN FIRST BASEMAN EVER!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!!! But nooooo, they wanted to turn 1b over to Mark Carreon. I hate that guy…
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
let frandsen play
… the next robbie thompson
Even at his ceiling
Even at his ceiling, Kevin Frandsen isn’t likely to be the next Robbie Thompson.
Agin' it
I don’t think the difference between Durham and Frelez is going to be worth paying for, and someone will have to be removed from the 40-man.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
Good point
Good point about the 40-man roster situation, although there’s almost always SOMEONE who can be removed from the 40-man without too much risk. Still, it’s harder to do so in the winter than in the summer.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/durhams-end
Interesting FanGraphs article on Durham. Worth a read.
That having been said, Frandsen projects to be only about a half win worse than Durham… not worth the money and the added issue of forsaking the youth movement.
You get points
for out of the box thinking. Durham’s OBP last year (.380), including his milwaukee time, was dozens (1 in the case of Winn) of points higher than anyone on the Giants.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
uugh.
There are so many reasons not to do this its not even funny.
Two
I can think of two reasons not to sign Ray Durham (assuming it could be done on the cheap; otherwise, I wouldn’t be interested):
First, it would cut into Kevin Frandsen’s playing time. I don’t see that as being too big an issue, but there IS a small possibility Kevin could turn into a satisfactory second baseman for the long run.
Second, it might cut out Eugenio Velez. Although I really enjoy watching him play, I don’t think too highly of Eugenio, so I don’t see this as a big problem. And if it IS a big problem, just let Eugenio take Dave Roberts’ place.
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