It's just Manny being offered another contract by the Dodgers
The Los Angeles Dodgers are hoping the third time is the charm when it comes to contract proposals given to Manny Ramirez.
The LA Times Dylan Hernandez published a story at 5:18 pm pacific time Wednesday evening, that the Dodgers have once again asked Manny to complete them.
The deal is a hybrid of the previous two offers made by Los Angeles thus far. This is a "two" year deal worth a total of $45 million. The structure of the deal is slightly unique, being that it's the same one year $25 million pact offered earlier this month with a player option for 2010 which would be worth $20 million if exercised by Ramirez.
We'll see how this unfolds, but it has the feeling of the real thing.
Dodger owner Frank McCourt, previously best known for pioneering Boston's infamous 'Big Dig', has been more involved in the discussions the past week.
Now Scott Boras will present the offer to his client, and likely any other team who will take a look. That list of potential pawns of negotiation likely begins and ends with the Giants.
From my perspective the Giants have a chance here, and as I've said before if Larry Baer and Brian Sabean were to have mapped this scenario out in November, it would look pretty similar to what's transpired up to this point.
Manny desperately wants a third year. The Giants could sweep in with a three year deal in the neighborhood of $50 to $60 million and probably stand a good shot. Ultimately he wants dollars and years, and the Giants could beat the Dodgers in both categories without saddling themselves with a Zito2.0 type of contract.
Of course, there's no indication of this even being considered, and the Giants continue to play coy, assuming they playing at all. Sabean said last week the Manny was on the "back burner." Perhaps its Sabean telling a reporter to get over it, but it could be him posturing.
This is more like how the Giants traditionally do things. They don't talk about deals before they happen, period. Zito was a surprise, the Matt Williams trade was a shock, and Bonds was the best kept secret in the history of big named free agent signings. We'll know which column this Manny saga will fall into soon.
There is likely one fellow happier than anyone about this news, the Dodger's ticket salesperson who left a voice-mail for a prospective client that included "a little insider info." The unnamed Dodger employee was hoping to close a deal by promising Manny to a Dodger fan who was less than impressed by the prospects of a Ramirez-less Dodger team. The team later confirmed that the voice mail was not based on facts just excitement and the feeling that the team was "anticipating and building toward that (Manny resigning)."
Hey, times are tough, I get it.
You can see the video and hear the message (if you care for that sort of thing here).
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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My take...
A three year Manny deal worries me… If, somehow, that third year were to be a team option, fine, otherwise, I think I’d pass.
That said, if there were some way to beat the Dodgers without going to that third year, I’d be all for it… of course I’m not sure exactly what Manny and Boras would want, so it’s hard to map out exactly what kind of an offer that would take… A two year, $50 million deal with both years guaranteed? That deal with the second year a player option? I dunno… but the third year at a $20 millionish price… sheesh, if we don’t like his fielding now, will he even be playable in the NL at that point?
I guess the maximum I could be persuaded to would be three years, $60 million, provided it’s a front-loaded deal. Somthing like a 25/25/10 breakdown on the (millions of) dollars per year. I don’t want to be paying plenty for Manny 3, 4, or 5 or more years from now when the young nucleus has (hopefully) really started humming along and it would actually be time to supplement that with some big name FAs and/or start giving the kids long term deals.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Feb 26, 2009 12:10 AM PST reply actions
Also, maybe this is the paranoia talking, but I’m a little bit worried that the Giants winning out on Manny could have bad long-term ramifications. I mean this could be the stroke that galvanizes McCourt to really spend some dough, maybe fire Secret Agent Ned, pour money into the draft, scouting, and foreign talent. Maybe it would be wiser, over the long haul, to let the Dodgers have this one and let them keep thinking that building teams around aging vets is the way to go.
Of course, signing Manny away from the Bums could also have the reverse effect and cause McCourt to go berserk in FA next year, signing up creaky, big name, over the hill vets to show the world he’s not the cheapskate we all know he is. So really, from the longterm Dodger outlook, it’s probably a wash either way.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Feb 26, 2009 12:14 AM PST up reply actions
COME ON GIANTS BRASS!!!!11
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
OMGLOLZ!!!11 GIANT BRAS DONT HAEV AN IDDEA HOW GONA MAKE A WINER COULH DAVE GOTEN VLAD BUT HOW MENY WROLD SERIESTHEY GONA GET WTIH NO MANNY LOL2SABES!!!11
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 26, 2009 4:40 AM PST up reply actions
Giant bras?
The whole post is very funny, but the Giant Bras particularly made me LOLZ.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
Now THAT's a Giant Bras!

"It kind of gives everybody else out there who is not a big person the motivation and the inspiration that they know they can do it, too."--Tim Lincecum
by Timlincecum.com on Feb 26, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
.COME ON GAINTS BRAS 2 OF MANNYS MAN-BOOBS IS WORTH MORE THEN THIS FRED LOUIS & AND SHEERHOLTZ AND NOT TO MENTION RANDY NOT-SO-WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GIT R DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by satyricrash on Feb 26, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
OH YEAH, WHO LOVES DEM SOME GIANT BRAS
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
I loled.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Feb 26, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
The Sabes Baer Neukom Brass Band!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
“I wanna be in that number when the saints go marchin’ in!”
/not really
by satyricrash on Feb 26, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Who’s Manny?? We have Travis Ishikawa!!!!
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
If the Ginats don't give Manny $25M for this year...
will tickets be reduced $7.52 each across the board?
Since my salary is being reduced, it would be a help in inducing me to go to games. And, BTW, I would be absolutely fine with that decision.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
makes you tear up...
Manny gets $20 – from the finest of news sources.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, hitting well against lefties since 2/25/2009.
Unmotivated Manny
I get it, I’m sort of concerned about Manny too, but he is such a drastic upgrade over anyone else in the lineup or in the farm system I’m tempted. Third year mutual option is fine with me and I would like the whole deal to be based around incentives, namely playoff appearances and AB’s
2 extra wins = drastic
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Feb 26, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
Si…. ok, maybe not drastic, but definitely significant. And if I contradicted myself, that’s ok.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
Eh
This is the problem with those kind of player value rankings, does anybody really think Andre Either will ever hit like he did last year with Manny in the lineup, if Manny doesn’t resign in LA? I think not. Manny makes others around him better. If we had Manny in our lineup, just a hunch that some of our guys are going to be that much more productive because they’re going to see better pitches to hit.
Manny making the team better overall does not mean that Manny makes others around him better. “Lineup protection” does exist, but the effect is marginal at best.
I recommend you read the whole chapter in that book, btw.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
pioneering
Perhaps pioneer is the wrong word, but it’s even listed on his dodger.com bio as an accomplishment. Its not like I said he’s one who wrote Angela’s Ashes ;-)
The way the doggers just structured this latest contract, they make out like bandits. We need to step in and offer 3 years guaranteed, but lowball the number. Something like 3 yrs, $51M. That way the doggers have to up their offer to a 3rd guaranteed year. If we can get them on the hook for 3 yrs, $20M/yr then hopefully that hurts them in re-signing their own homegrown talent down the line.
I think I pulled my swagger muscle...
Really? Dodgers make out like bandits?
I don’t see it that way. The Evils are taking a calculated risk here. In the contract they’re offering, if Manny has an incredible 2009, he can choose not to exercise the 2010 option and go get another big contract (and have more teams bidding, assuming the macroeconomic situation is no worse and probably better than it is now). If Manny tanks this season, then he takes the player option for 2010 and the Dodgers have $20 million less to work with next year. It doesn’t seem like it’s a bargain for them, either way.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
LA is exposing itself here on the deal
so it may get done because both Boras and Ramirez get the feeling they are getting the best of the deal. LA has done fine with the only offers Ramirez has received. Ramirez needs to decide if he wants to play baseball.
LOL
You summed up everybody’s thoughts perfectly.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
Not mine
He certainly didn’t sum up my thoughts. I’m clinging to that small hope that the Giants can sign Manny and be only one more big move away from being a good team instead of two.
Can anyone think of another team that has had a donut lineup and done well?
He wants a little more time off. You think a player like him needs spring training? Pshaw. He’ll sign a week before the season starts so he can get a nice extended vacation.
by chilibean_3 on Feb 26, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
Just great, More Manny talk to come on MLB Network.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Feb 26, 2009 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
This is hilarious on so many levels
End result is one of the following:
1) He eventually signs a big deal w/ LA and everyone in LA but Manny is pissed — somewhat good for SF
2) He eventually signs a similar deal and unhappy Manny is pissed — good for SF
3) He’s so pissed with LA after signing a low deal with LA that he options out after one year and goes somewhere else (based on recent proposed deal) – good for SF
4) He’s so pissed with LA that he’ll take a more crafty deal with SF — good for SF?
- is still hard to fathom how you’d structure a deal that pleases him in SF’s parameters
by pittsburghian on Feb 26, 2009 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
Any Team
Any team that is wiling to spend $18 million per season on Barry Zito and $12 million per year on Aaron Rowand shouldn’t have a problem with coming up the $20 to $25 million per season necessary to sign Manny.
And they wouldn’t need to commit to Manny for nearly as many years.
By the way
The Giants thought they were OK with paying $128 million to sign Barry Zito, since at 29 he was still in his prime. Anyone worth his salt could easily have told them that Barry was already PAST his prime.
$128 million for an innings eater? Heck, the Giants had recently traded away Livan Hernandez because they feared he would vest an option year at something like $5 million.
A team that is spending $30 million on Barry Zito and Aaron Rowand doesn’t have nearly as much money to go after Manny as they should.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
This year would be tough
This season it would be tough to pay Zito, Rowand, Renteria, Johnson, Winn, Roberts and Howry, but the last four come off the books at the end of the 2009 season, greatly easing the pain thereafter.
I will say this though. Teams are properly worried about their ability to sell tickets at full price during what could be a long economic recovery. But of the first six above — each of whom is making from pretty good money to unbelievable coin — the only signings I liked at the time were Rowand and Johnson, and I was happy about Rowand partially in the context of signing him instead of Andruw Jones.
My point is that if simple laymen such as you and I can see that most of the Giants’ signings were mistakes, why couldn’t they themselves see it? Methinks they weren’t paying NEARLY enough attention to their resident sabermetician.
On the positive side, some VERY good draft and Dominican signings the past three years. AND the Giants finally opened their draft pocket books when they drafted Buster Posey knowing he would cost them far more than they had ever before paid. As it turned out, Buster signed for the highest pure bonus of any player ever drafted by ANY team.
I wish they had adopted that strategy the previous draft and taken Rick Porcello, who was still available at #22 overall. Of course they did quite well with Tim Alderson in that spot, but just think if he had still been available at #29 overall and the Giants had signed all THREE!
Also that summer the Giants missed out what would seem to have been a great opportunity to sign up Tim Lincecum long-term, much as the Rays did a year later with Evan Longoria. Now, even before Tim is eligible for free agency, the Giants will almost certainly have spent more to pay Tim PRIOR to his being eligible for free agency than $71.5 million the Rays have guaranteed Longoria, even while wrapping Evan up for as many as nine seasons.
If they exercise their option to keep Evan through 2016, they will pay him $44.5 million, or slightly less than $5 million for each of his nine seasons. Lest you think something akin to this couldn’t have been worked out with Tim, don’t forget that Evan was drafted #4 overall in 2006, or six spots ahead of Tim.
By not showing the financial faith in Tim they should have shown early, the Giants will almost certainly cost themselves tens of millions of dollars and perhaps over $100 million.
It is time for the Giants to start becoming financially prudent. Did it make more sense to take a $128 million risk on Barry Zito after the 2006 season or a risk of perhaps as little as a seventh of that amount on Tim six months later?
Of COURSE the Giants were afraid of making another mistake as it was already appearing they might be making with Barry. But as with the ill-advised signing of Dave Roberts, the Zito money was already dead money. The key is to put one’s mistakes behind him, learn from them and then go on wiser even if poorer.
During the winter after the 2006 season, wasn’t it patently obvious that Lincecum was a FAR better risk than Zito? Zito was a guy who was clearly on the way down. Lincecum was a guy who seemed to have every chance to be on the way up and quite possible SHARPLY so.
Let’s put it this way: During that winter when the Giants signed Zito, I decried that signing while predicting Lincecum would become the best pitcher in SF Giants history. I’m sure there were others here who felt the same.
Were we geniuses to feel that way? No, we were merely looking wisely and objectively at the evidence before us. Clearly the Giants have even more evidence than we have, and should have more experienced and wiser heads to make their decisions involving tens of millions and sometimes over $100 million.
Why could we see clearly what they clearly could not? If they had, they would have saved millions upon millions.
Next time perhaps they’ll ask us here at The McCovey Chronicles. Yes, and umpires will be praised for their good calls and Barry Bonds will be praised for treating his body as a temple.
Dear Manny
JUST FUCKING SIGN ALREADY!!!!11
yours
oldjacket
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
New sig possibly?
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Feb 27, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
Dumb and Dumber
McCourt and Colletti……“we feel like we’re negotiating against ourselves”…ya think?
Manny really only has one place left
SF. The Giant fans wont hate him, they never turned on Bonds. And if he leads on the Dodgers only to screw them for us, he will be a hero. I say we just go for it, give him 25, 25 optional, and 20 club option for the third year. Two years of Manny, there are worse things in this world. It isnt like we are blocking a stud pitcher or outfielder with his roster spot.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 26, 2009 9:15 PM PST reply actions
as long as the third year isn’t for a lot and/or is a club option, I’m down with a Manny signing. Basically, it’s the years, not the dollars that scare me.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Feb 27, 2009 2:06 AM PST up reply actions
Third year?
I really don’t see the big issue with the third year. That would make Manny a free agent right at the time the Giants need to re-sign Matt Cain in order to prevent his becoming a free agent. The following year Aaron Rowand’s contract expires, and the year after that it’s Barry Zito right at the time Tim Lincecum needs to be signed to avoid free agency.
The Giants don’t have a single contract for an important future player that I can think of that will require big bucks in the meantime. Their problems will become rather acute when Buster Posey, Madison Bumgarner and Tim Alderson reach free agency, but that won’t be for at least seven more years (after the 2015 season).
The Giants are ultimately going to face financial difficulties in keeping their team together, but they certainly don’t start until after the 2013 season and don’t really intensify until after 2015. Even with a three-year contract, Manny will be LONG gone by then.
If the Giants sign Manny for three years, they should have a pretty good outfield for three years without adding anyone to it. Then they would have Manny’s money to pay Cain and go out and get another outfielder to play with Rowand, Fred Lewis, Nate Schierholtz and John Bowker. Since the last three in that group bat left-handed, Manny even makes a very nice complement by swinging from the right side.
I don’t know the exact number of dollars the Giants have coming off the books at the end of this season, but since it includes at least Winn, Roberts, Molina, Johnson and Howry, it is substantial. The season the Giants can least afford to pay Manny is THIS year, not 2010 or 2011.
After 2010, both Edgar Renteria and Jeremy Affeldt come off the books, again providing a fair amount of available cash. And then after 2011 the largesse would come from the expiring contract of Manny.
To me that doesn’t sound like a problem; it sounds like a well-thought-out plan.
there is a good possibly that in Manny’s second season Lincecum will be making $10MM and in Manny’s third season Lincecum could be making $12MM-$15MM
OMGLLOZ!!1 INOTHER LETLE SPEDSHEAT BABBY YUO DONT NOW MANY A PROVED MAOJR LEGAUE SUPARSTAR ALLREADY PITCHER ALLWAYS TO MUCH RISC FOR TEH BIG MONIES CONTRACK CUOLD B 1 MOORE ZITO LOLZ!!!111
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
Agreed
Your point is a good one. But one more guy who likely will be coming off the books after this season that I forgot about is Noah Lowry at $4.5 million. If the Giants don’t exercise his option and still decide to re-sign him, it would likely be at a far lower figure.
And as I pointed out above, the Giants almost certainly could (and should) have tied up Timmy for far less had they been pro-active as the Rays were with Evan Longoria. How long are we Giants fans going to have to pay (figuratively) for the Giants’ recent financial mistakes — particularly when many of us wouldn’t have made them?
Admittedly it is easier when it’s not our money, but wouldn’t many of us have saved $128 million right off the top?
Manny, the Giants, and some form of the number 25 should never be associated with each other in any kind of symbiotic relationship.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Mar 1, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
So Boras has set a deadline...
for the Dodgers to respond to their counter-offer, and I’m wondering what will happen at noon if the Dodgers don’t respond.
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...
Say it again.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Mar 1, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
How much money is Freddy Lewis in LF going to generate?
How much is Man Ram in LF going to generate?
Fucking make a better offer, G-Men.
Emergency Alert System. This is a test. I repeat, this is only a test.

Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Mar 1, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
This is an automated message from the Federal Emergency Notification Service.
Martial law has been declared in your area and a strict dusk to dawn curfew is now in effect. Violators are subject to arrest or summary execution. Stay in your homes. Repeat, stay in your homes.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
I know I’m probably a nation of one, but I’d way way way rather watch Fred Lewis than “Man-Ram”.
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Mar 2, 2009 8:20 AM PST up reply actions
You know, I used to think that Manny’s nickname should be ManRam, since we went the generic nickname route. ManRam fit perfectly with the x-Rod nicknames and J-Lo and such weak crap.
Now that I’ve seen a number of people referring to him as ManRam… Eeeeeehhhhhhhhhh, I’m kind of over it.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
On the days
On the days Tim Lincecum doesn’t pitch, I would think the Giants’ attendance is likely to be well down again after a drop of over 300,000 last season.
Wanna know what I think?
I’ll tell you what I fuckin’ think.
Christian Bale’s stupid voice as Batman in The Dark Knight made me laugh the whole time, but not in a good way.
Seriously, it wasn’t a fuckin’ comedy, so I didn’t want to laugh the whole time.
AND YOU TRASHED YOUR OWN GODDAMNED SCENE, CHRISTIAN, NOT THE GODDAMNED LIGHTING DIRECTOR! YOU COULDN’T JUST SIGN ON FOR AMERICAN PSYCHO 2, SO WE HAD TO SEE MILA KUNIS!?!?! FUCK YOU AND YOUR FANGED K-9’S!!!
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...
Wait. What?
Also, BANNED for the tdk hate.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Mar 2, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
You're right...
The rant was arbitrary on my part, and probably too salty in tone. Just watched it again last night, and I can’t get over the voice.
Apologies.
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...
Eh… arbitrary rants are a way of life. Not liking tdk… well, that’s just… not something I can relate to.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2009 7:18 AM PST up reply actions
Not that I didn't like the movie...
It was a grand spectacle, honestly. But I couldn’t get past the voice, and that made it a “B” for me instead of and “A”. When I first heard The Voice, I thought it was a joke; it was jarring.
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...

by 
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